What a warm welcome home Wu Danker....you're getting spanked already.
BTW do post up a few shots of that Sultan in the back of your new H2.
Maaaan, these guys really missed you (well most of em' anyway - won't mention names)
EDIT : Do replace your name on the Utah gathering list...it was taken off the list during your
absence...who'd pull off somethin' like that?....tisk, tisk!!!!!!!!
Wow, that really looks good! That is the first FS 29r frame that looks like its not out of proportion IMO...nice job DT. New saddle and a new headbadge to boot!
just did a email session with dt. he told me hes brigin the entire fleet of sultans. not sure how many that means but id guess 2 each of the size run if not more.
i also told him it was in his best interest to bring 35 of those seats for sale if he knew what was good for him. if not he might go home with nuthin but seatposts to sit on after the last day. "i dunno man. it just fell off and i couldnt find it. see ya!"
Where do I sign up for one of those AWESOME Turner paper plates affixed to that seatpost! DT could paint a Turner logo on a steaming pile of dog crap and the lemmings would write a friggin' poem about it.
Good to see him slap a real badge on the front.
Quick! Start a database for this frame! We need numbers!
My understanding is that the TNT rear negates the need for a chain.
...Dope ride though. The always fiesty 29'er board will mos def explode like someone tossed a fox in the hen house. I'm sure all sorts of fresh 29'er/FS theories will burst onto the scene within hours....
It really does look like a small size 26er in those last pics, add me to the headtube badge list!! I have to agree with DB about the saddle, it hurts just looking at it
ill do what i can. toss me a pm with yer contact info. if its possible, ill make it work.
as far as the seat goes, ya never know till ya ride it. ive been on big padded pos's and wee tiny little buggers that are equally as horrific. ill give it a shot but be sure ill have a spare post and saddle for these test rides just in case. its like bringin yer own pedals and helmet for a rental bike. same rule applys for seats.
it would almost be funny to see druid buttmunch sittin in the trailhead like a outcast puppy. tail waggin, hopein to be included in playtime but no prayer of the alpha males acceptance after all his antagonistic barking. so he sits, little puppy tears leakin from the corners of his sad little puppy eyes as the pack leaves him behind yet again for a big playfull romp in the tall grasy field. uppon the packs return, dirty puppy still waits only to hear how good it was and how much fun the new dog toys were to play with. poor puppy. hehe.
CC Breaking News!
<hr style="color: rgb(183, 183, 183);" size="1"> this just in: 71-73 are the angles, with 13.2 BB and 18.2 Cstay a 21" weighed 6.4lbs. film at 11.
dont thank me, thank my little bird for those numbers. i missed postin those pics by this >< much. i was at work and didnt have access to em so aquahoohaa gets the nod here. next time buddy! next time!
Wow, that really looks good! That is the first FS 29r frame that looks like its not out of proportion IMO...nice job DT. Saddle and a new headbadge to boot!
Me likey all around!
If only we could all ride a 21" frame then all the 29ers would look in proportion.
Sign me up for a 19/20", now there will be 2 turner riders in NH!
Nice headtube badge however - will that be available individually?
It seems DT has the connection on FSA stuff for the demo bikes. After ditching the uncomfortable FSA saddle, and the crazy setback FSA post, I replaced the FSA headset with a CK. The good news is that the FSA parts on those bikes is the good stuff.
Where do I sign up for one of those AWESOME Turner paper plates affixed to that seatpost! DT could paint a Turner logo on a steaming pile of dog crap and the lemmings would write a friggin' poem about it.
Maybe your right Dusty I gotta have anythign that has a Turner logo slathered over it, yep just sign me up....err...or maybe after putting a ton of XC miles on my bike this year I would appreciate a flatter profile, lightly padded saddle that would offer support without feeling like a couch.
It's probably the only way anyone could get Aqua off his Jones for more than 5 minuets.
With him being a major 'niner whore, I'm looking forward to Aqua's writeup and excellent pictorial.
I bet it has a VERY upright feeling to it with a headtube that long...
The head tubes are .5" shorter than on a 26" bike, so once you factor in the ~1.5" longer fork they will provide a more upright position by just under an inch. There's also the issue of the bottom bracket being .4" higher, so you're only talking about a less than half inch net increase.
Of course most people run a combination of spacers, high rise stems, & riser bars so it shouldn't be hard to lower your bars correspondingly, should you so desire.
''It seems like a bit of a trend, everyone trying to make things longer over the last couple of years" Sam Hill
Aquaman is an animal who probably puts in more miles in a week than most of us do in a month
and half of them over car-sized rocks or in the air
'nuff said
"No kidding" This was just a little stab at an old buddy. I have known Aqua for for about seventeen years and live right down the road from him. I know he is the perfect abuse tester of a bike. Not to mention free advertisement.
Last edited by DIRTJUNKIE; 09-09-2006 at 10:32 AM.
Phae- JN said it first. With the 29" wheels it is already like a 5" bike. To make it a 5" then the tubes would have to be beefed up a bit like a 6" 26r.
EKOO- the general geometry is pretty well documented around here, but the TT is 24.5" on a 19. Greg bike pictured is 25.5 and a 21 and it weights 6.4lbs, the 19/lrg weights 6.2
Gregs bike has the grips exactly 1" under the seat, perfect XC trail bike relationship in our parts, that is with the 5* stem and normal riser bar and a little spacer. We will have zero angle stems on the show bikes with the same bar. The stem will also be 70 instead of Gregs 100 so the bars will even be lower for those wanting to grunt out some vertical.
last i heard was sometime in december-ish, maybe spring or after that and definately before '08 but that was long ago and that date may have changed. emails to turner are often answered quickly but id be patient and wait here a few days before everyone floods his mail box.
Here's some pics from today's first ride on the big wheeled Turner. DT and his gal pal CP hand delivered it to Noble Canyon this morning.
It was a long day in the saddle. I'll talk about my thoughts on this fine steed later. I'm worked, but I wanted to throw a few images up for ya. Time to power lounge
Welcome back Aqua, certainley putting the Sultan through its paces impressive great stuff, is DT on a Spot or is that a Pike and Avy Ti I can see hauling on his machine (Sultan or Spot)
Gonz - where have ya been man! This place isn't the same without you. Dusty has to carry the full flock-bashing load and it's not easy for him by himself.
Aqua and some of his gang put the hurt on us part timers, 5500 ft of climbin and 35miles. It was not all rocks like in the pic's but man we rode a lot of em. TA, that is a DHX 5 with a Ti spring on it, and yes Zilla there is a nice ramp on the front of that log but that did not save me from almost plowing the forest floor with my head on the first run at it.
This is not a Flux with 29" wheels, it has a 6.5" shock and uses another models (Flux) rockers but the intent as one can see from the shots is more Spot. If anyone is flying thier Flux's like Aqua is in these shots please call for a trade in on a Spot or a Sultan!!!!
... there is a nice ramp on the front of that log but that did not save me from almost plowing the forest floor with my head on the first run at it. ...
Whew! I don't care if it was a pile of popsicle sticks...If you told me youze guyz were launching that big-arsed raised log from flat ground, I would have sold my bikes and taken up roller-blading.
<HR style="COLOR: rgb(183,183,183)" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->OK, here's my thoughts on DT's latest recipe. It's a home run! But there are some caveats.
DT and Christina were already at the trailhead with coffee in hand when I rolled in. I gave the bike the once over and immediately pulled out the wrenches, and began ripping parts off of my 6 Pack. That slice of pizza with the Turner logo looks trick.... but, there was no way I was gonna subject my taint to an all day, 35 mile ride!
There also was no seat post quick release, and the crankset's big ring made me nervous. We wanted to get going, so I didn't want to take the time to remove it.
Greg set the bike up with a very narrow XC bar and a 110 stem. That spelled trouble for me as well. I swapped the whole bar setup out with the wide carbon DH bar and 70mmXzero stem from my pack. The Avid Juicy brakes made it convenient for me to also swap the brakes to moto-style without the need to switch hydro lines.(simply flip 'em) Nice!
The tires and wheels looked scary to me. But there's not much I can do about that. The bike was setup with WTB rims (I think they are XC rims..about 24mm wide?), and Maxxis Igniter tires (2.1?). Had I really been prepared, I would have brought some steel bead Exiwolfs with me.
So, after cannibilizing the 6Pack, I was ready to swing a leg over this big wheeled Turner.
My first pedal strokes around the trailhead felt right. The cockpit arrangement felt spot on. The Top tube length...perfect!
Let's roll!
Off we go, and immediately we are climbing in the chunky techno, trialsy stuff. The bike feels really comfortable right off of the bat and I am cleaning all of the stuff that I do on my other bikes. It just feels as if there is no learning curve to deal with. I can tell within minutes that it rides just like a Turner. It is just solid and the rear end stays glued over the sharp edge steps.
The one thing that I notice after we get to the top of our first big climb is the weight. This is a fairly heavy bike. This build came in at, [I believe DT said 29 pounds]. So, it's no svelte, XC, race machine. Gram counters need not apply. This is a big solid bike with 5Spot tubing. It's not aimed at the Norba race, weight concious crowd. We all regroup at the top, I'm ready to get the first taste of how it works pointed downhill.
I post down and floor it. The bike rails. And once again, the ride that it exhibits is that classic, sure footed, Turner vibe. But.. the tires suck. They are downright scary! That, along with the skinny WTB rims, provides for a few interesting moments. Despite the flimsy wheels and tires, the ride is not sketchy at all.
Nonetheless, at the bottom of our first decent I am all grins. This thing reminds me of my old XCE..but with big wheels. I'm feeling it and ready for our next climb.
The next climb is a long, brutal, asphalt ascent with grades at the top nearing 25 percent. We affectionally refer to it as "Alp du Wheeze".
I've got to admit that here I was actually somewhat appreciating the skinny wheels and tires. I was feeling the weight, so I decided it was in my best interest not to try to keep pace with the singlespeeders, Andy aka Rut and Scott.
Once at the top of our climb we waited for the rest of the climbers, and then began our next descent which includes about a 1/2 mile of smokin' fast fireroad peppered with loose golf ball size rocks and some waterbar jumps for airing it out.
The long wheelbase and relatively slack angles kicked ass on this stuff! I let it all hang out and the only thing holding this bike back was once again...... the wheel and tire setup.
Next, we began another long, grinder of a climb with lots of loose chunky climbs. I didn't make the Waterfall climb on this day after repeated attempts. I got close. I think with better tires, I can clean it.
At the top we did some XC style riding in the forest and played around on some of the log jumps. We're about 25 miles into the day, and I'm still feeling comfortable and very much aquainted with the Sultan. We stopped to play around on some boulders in the forest. I was a bit hesitant to try some of this stuff with a full squish bike. But, after a few attempts, and one nice little digger I nailed it. I couldn't tell if DT was amused or in horror watching me flogging his new baby like that. Andy made it look easy.
So, enough of that, it's time to get to the real descending. We've got 12 miles of, Downieville-type, high speed, foresty, stuff, followed by some low desert, chunky, rock action.
This will be good.
I'll just let the pics tell the story of how much fun I was having. Again, I felt right at home on the bike. It railed the switchbacks as good as, if not better than my 6Pack(despite the wheels an tires). I took it off of most of the jumps that I hit on my other bikes and it felt quite neutral in the air. It likes to fly.
I was surprised at the BB clearance on the Sultan. This bike had a big ring on it which scares me. I would have liked to have ridden it as a two ring setup with bashguard. But, despite that...all of the teeth were still intact at the end of the day!
So, here's my final thoughts after digesting my first ride. The bike is a home run and rides just like you would expect a Turner to ride. The components on this build were the only thing holding it back. The Reba fork was adequate and did it's job. Nothing more, nothing less. I want to try this bike again with my DUC up front. The wheels and tires will also have to be beefed up before I take it out again. Perhaps a bigger front anchor as well.
Again, this is not a light, XC type of bike. For me and my riding style...It works. It combines all of the aspects and nuances that I love about a Turner bike and then you also get the benefits of the big hoops.
Now, the big question is..."Would I trade my 6Pack in for this type of all day, "all mountain" riding?" I think the answer is... no. As much as I love the big wheeled experience...I wouldn't trade my small wheeled, Turner in for the Sultan.
To finish this bike off the way I need it to be setup, it will have to have substantially better tires and wider rims and better suspension. And, those suspension components and tires are just not available, yet. The Exiwolfs that I run on my Jones are OK and arguably the burliest alternative to these Igniters. But, I still say the Exi's are marginal at best. And when those tires do show up, that is just going to add more weight in the worst possible area.
The whole concept works..But, the components that I need to mirror the offerings that the 26" wheeled crowd enjoys simply don't exist just yet. And if and when they do..it's just going to equate to a much heavier bike. That said, the thought of experiencing a freeride oriented, big wheel bike is something that I fantasize about. For now, this thing comes close!
Aqua- sounds like a great heavy duty XC machine, I hope I get to test one in UT, I'm assuming the wheels/tires are fine for regular XC/trail duty huh? What do you run on your Jones?
Hmm, when will that head tube badge be available to the general Turner riding public? Would look pretty sweet on my scratched and generally beat to hell Spot...also, it's been almost 2 days since I changed any components, so I'm itching to change something.
I once corrected DW about a bicycle related topic.
I'm just joshin' you guys. I have been pretty impressed with the 29ers I have been on (my Pugs included ). That thing looks pretty nice. A lot of 29ers are just grotesque.
Hmm, when will that head tube badge be available to the general Turner riding public?
whats that little bird? theyll be done in about a month? and available on '07 frames sometime after that?
no tweet (word) on aftermarket availability but rumor has it theyll be available about the same time. theres also a hint that the "paper plate" seat and a bigger kevlar cornered version will be made in the near future for public consumption. this is not official turner info so save dt the emails and phone calls please.
Last edited by cactuscorn; 09-11-2006 at 09:24 PM.
Gonz - where have ya been man! This place isn't the same without you.
Judging by the odd choice of screen name I'd say he's been reading the Weimar Constitution (or at least that part of the old constitution that Hitler and the Nazis exploited in their rise to power).
The scary thing is that the Ignitor tires and SpeedDisc rims are not duds in the 29" world, but hold their own in the "middle of the road" fray that so many of the current tire/rim offerings fall into. On the heavy side for pure XC, but clearly not up to the type of riding a bike like the Sultan allows, particularly for someone of Aqua's bent. For a rider not intent on pushing the bikes limits one way or the other they could in fact be a great option.
For those who are going to see just what the Sultan is capable of, be it XC speed or technical trail riding, there are better options. You could lose a pound of rotating weight with Stan's 355 rims and Karmas, which would surely speed up the climbing. A pound in the other direction would buy some Stan's FR rims and 2.35 Rampage tires, a setup which should not hold the bike back at all in technical riding.
No, you can't have it all in one package, but that is true for 26" and 27" wheeled bikes also. For each of my bikes I have at least two wheelsets I can use based on what that day's riding calls for, so I don't see why the Sultan would be any different.
''It seems like a bit of a trend, everyone trying to make things longer over the last couple of years" Sam Hill
One thing that I forgot to mention is that the Sultan that I rode sunday, is a pre-production unit. There will be some changes made to the bike before it is ready to ship. We talked about re-routing the cables to the underside of the top tube, anodize color choices, and a few other changes.
Originally Posted by rroeder
Wow, great writeup!
Aqua- sounds like a great heavy duty XC machine, I hope I get to test one in UT, I'm assuming the wheels/tires are fine for regular XC/trail duty huh? What do you run on your Jones?
I run Salsa Delgados (28mm wide) with CK hubs (SS rear), and Steel bead WTB ExiWolfs. I'd really like to try the Sultan out with this wheelset/tire combo.
The scary thing is that the Ignitor tires and SpeedDisc rims are not duds in the 29" world, but hold their own in the "middle of the road" fray that so many of the current tire/rim offerings fall into. On the heavy side for pure XC, but clearly not up to the type of riding a bike like the Sultan allows, particularly for someone of Aqua's bent. For a rider not intent on pushing the bikes limits one way or the other they could in fact be a great option.
For those who are going to see just what the Sultan is capable of, be it XC speed or technical trail riding, there are better options. You could lose a pound of rotating weight with Stan's 355 rims and Karmas, which would surely speed up the climbing. A pound in the other direction would buy some Stan's FR rims and 2.35 Rampage tires, a setup which should not hold the bike back at all in technical riding.
No, you can't have it all in one package, but that is true for 26" and 27" wheeled bikes also. For each of my bikes I have at least two wheelsets I can use based on what that day's riding calls for, so I don't see why the Sultan would be any different.
Judging by the odd choice of screen name I'd say he's been reading the Weimar Constitution (or at least that part of the old constitution that Hitler and the Nazis exploited in their rise to power).
Perhaps you should ask "Gonz" about those things, since you seem to be operating on the erroneous assumption that he is me and I am he.
Perhaps you should ask "Gonz" about those things, since you seem to be operating on the erroneous assumption that he is me and I am he.
Funny you should direct your comment about erroneous assumptions to me and not Roy. I see how my reply looks like an assumption and for that I apologize. But its more of a probability argument than an assumption. I should have said that the choice of "Article 48" as a screen name was clever (if that's the right word) rather than odd. I don't think you (as "Article 48") are a Nazi apologist or a neo-Nazi. In fact, in fact I think it is probable that your political sympathies are quite the opposite. That's what makes "Article 48" as a screen name interesting.
Working in another vein, an offshoot of the 1960s New Journalism (as practiced by Tom Wolfe, for example) was the gonzo-style journalism(as its known historically) of people like Hunter S Thompson, writers like Oscar Zeta Acosta, and later PJ O'Rourke. Early practitioners used a brash in-your-face-style of writing that melded fact and fiction, championed subjective experience in lieu of objectivity, and relied heavily on sarcasm, exaggeration, profanity, humor, inversion, etc. Sound familiar?
Interestingly, this style of writing resembles many of the kinds of responses proffered at MTBR by "Gonzostrike." And since "Gonzostrike" made many of his views public its a mattter of record that "Gonzostrike," for example, was critical of the Bush Administration (which he had called the Cheney Administration), the profiteering of Halliburton, and he even used the word "fascism" in the same sentence as Bush. (I'm being generous in suggesting that "Gonzostrike" was consciously practicing "gonzo-style journalizm." It could simply be another coincidence.)
So lets just call it a strange set of coincidences but "Article 48" as a screen name would be very consistent with the ideological views of "Gonzostrike," if we understand the reference the Weimar Constitution to be a commentary on the policies of the current Administration. In other words, it fits the gonzo-style perfectly.
Granted, the evidence is thin, but if I were a betting man...
I run Salsa Delgados (28mm wide) with CK hubs (SS rear), and Steel bead WTB ExiWolfs. I'd really like to try the Sultan out with this wheelset/tire combo.
My thinking is it could be a poss. replacement for my Burner down the road, not sure if I would go with a Flux, I really want a beefy 4" frameset and the Flux may not cut it. If I could build it up in a durable manner around 28lbs I would definitely give it a try, I've got my name in for a test ride, it would be cool to check it out in StG
In other words, it fits the gonzo-style perfectly.
Granted, the evidence is thin, but if I were a betting man...
Let's say we stop beating around the bush and settle this matter once and for all: Mr. 48, I'm thinking about building up a sub-thirty pound RFX, relying on light and expensive parts to keep the weight to a minimum. What are your thoughts on the matter?
''It seems like a bit of a trend, everyone trying to make things longer over the last couple of years" Sam Hill
Let's say we stop beating around the bush and settle this matter once and for all: Mr. 48, I'm thinking about building up a sub-thirty pound RFX, relying on light and expensive parts to keep the weight to a minimum. What are your thoughts on the matter?
It's your money, Miles, and your bike. I say "enjoy it!"
Originally Posted by Roy
The evidence isn't thin.
Just because he calls himself "Clyde S Dale" and that name implies a bit of bodily heft, it doesn't have to follow that his evidence is fat as well.
It's kinda scary, though, the way "Clyde" has followed that character "Gonz." I'm pretty happy I'm not "Gonz" because I don't like having stalkers following me around.
Last edited by Article 48; 09-13-2006 at 09:36 AM.
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Originally Posted by Pinch
A FSA headset! 
DT could paint a Turner logo on a steaming pile of dog crap and the lemmings would write a friggin' poem about it.
