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Thread: DHR Top Tube

  1. #1
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    DHR Top Tube

    What is actual length on a large please?
    Thanks in advance

  2. #2
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    from where to where

    and compared to what? Since no downhill frame maker has the same anything, how do you compare it to whatever you are riding, even an older DHR as those bikes 'seat tubes' are not in the same place relative to the BB as the new models.

    We are putting together the 2009 catalog and specs and this subject came up again.Should we dimension it from BB to head tube top and call it 'cock pit' or should we measure the 'down tube'? Seems that quite a few shoppers have used the downtube measurement when calling. Assuming every frame is designed around a 22.5" fork, the Downtube measurement would still be screwed up by the BB height. I have pushed for the 'cockpit' measurement as hanging a plum line to bisect the BB and taking a horizontal measurement from the vertical string to the top of the head tube is really the only way to gauge the feel of a DH bike when crouching over it in the attack position with only feet and hands in solid contact with the bike. This can be done on any brand or model. I like it! Thanks for everyones help on this, I will finish this column on the DHR specs today.

    DT

  3. #3
    JMH
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    Shouldn't cockpit be written as a compound word, since "cock" and "pit" both mean something different when written separately?

    Rooster hole length...

    Agreed about the dimension problem on DH bikes since so few have seat tube angles that are actually measured inline... saddle height can change the effective TT by several cm with just a small height variation. I like the plumb line idea.

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    sexist?

    Could the designation "cockpit" be sexist? What do we call it if a female rider is on the bike? Maybe we need a new word, don't wanna offend.

  5. #5
    TLL
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    front-center

    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes
    I have pushed for the 'cockpit' measurement as hanging a plum line to bisect the BB and taking a horizontal measurement from the vertical string to the top of the head tube is really the only way to gauge the feel of a DH bike when crouching over it in the attack position with only feet and hands in solid contact with the bike.
    Would this measurement be the same as what is commonly referred to as "front-center"?

    Have to agree we need some other measurement, as TT length seems to tell you nothing at all about a DH bike's size. Leftover measurement from road bikes, I'd guess. I have been looking at older DHR's and can tell you that the TT length has been absolutely unhelpful when trying to figure what size would work for me.

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    JMH
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    Quote Originally Posted by TLL
    Would this measurement be the same as what is commonly referred to as "front-center"?

    THX
    Front-center is typically BB to front axle, so fork offset and height would make it different.

    How about "Bicycle Operator Control Zone?" BOCZ! (pronounced like "botch"). That will catch on like wildfire.

  7. #7
    MK_
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    cockpit and coochpit?

    _MK

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    Quote Originally Posted by MK_
    cockpit and coochpit?

    _MK
    Just call it the funzone, if the two of you mesh you know you're going to have a good time.

  9. #9
    TLL
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    thinking out loud here

    What about measuring from the center of the bb shell to the top of the HT? wouldn't that tell you approximately how much room you will have between pedals and bars? Or is a horizontal measure of what seems essentially the same thing (as DT describes) be better, which makes me a maroon for asking?

    Honestly, I think bikes like the RFX, Highline and of course the DHR should all have this measurement. TT sizing on bikes that you spend a lot of time out of the saddle is just silly, IMHO.

  10. #10
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    Yes I accept all that but would still like to know the actual top tube measurment from top centre of head tube to the top of the seat tube so a feelfor the sizeof the bike can be found.
    I hasten to add this is not for me but a rider who has been placed 50th and 60th in the recent UCI World cup downhill in Canada, so pehaps knows a little about his requirements!

  11. #11
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    It would appear that the common trend for down hillbikes is long and low
    Hill's bike is a meduim sized production frame with front end equivalent of a large front end making even for a relatively small rider quite a stretched out bike.
    Steve Peats bike is an extra large SC V10 with a stretched top tube.
    Usually having slacker front end geometry as well
    These bikes are running long wheel bases .
    Many average riders would stuggle with these bikes as they are physically not going fast enough!

  12. #12
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    DT, stick with the present front center measurement and give the customers all the other measurements they are asking for as well, TT, downtube length.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogvet
    It would appear that the common trend for down hillbikes is long and low
    Hill's bike is a meduim sized production frame with front end equivalent of a large front end making even for a relatively small rider quite a stretched out bike.
    Steve Peats bike is an extra large SC V10 with a stretched top tube.
    Usually having slacker front end geometry as well
    These bikes are running long wheel bases .
    Many average riders would stuggle with these bikes as they are physically not going fast enough!

    If this is true, makes sense. longer is more stable, especially at the speeds of WC circuits.
    I think the more info a buyer has on geometry the better. the plumb line to HT measurement & angles seems simple and foolproof.

  14. #14
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    Just cover it all.

    The current way Turner is measuring the downtube is the correct way. Unfortunately, very few other manufacturers use that method. It's also pretty rough to figure on anything but a built bike. So it is tough for someone doing rough comparisons.

    Just give 'em all . Downtube, actual toptube and effective toptube. I would even include center of BB to center of lower headtube. Seriously, I've never understood why manufacturers always pick one or the other as opposed to give them all.

    And yeah, I realize many other factors influence actual geometry. But giving buyers as much info as possible seems like a good thing.

  15. #15
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    Cockpit

    Since nobody else went here it could be renamed the FLIGHT DECK s that's its other refereed to name form whence it came from

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cockpit

    A cockpit is the area, usually near the front of an aircraft, from which a pilot controls the aircraft. The cockpit is also referred to as the flight deck although that term can also refer to the flight deck on an aircraft carrier. Most modern cockpits are enclosed, except on some small aircraft, and cockpits on large airliners are also physically separated from the cabin.



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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes
    and compared to what? Since no downhill frame maker has the same anything, how do you compare it to whatever you are riding, even an older DHR as those bikes 'seat tubes' are not in the same place relative to the BB as the new models.

    We are putting together the 2009 catalog and specs and this subject came up again.Should we dimension it from BB to head tube top and call it 'cock pit' or should we measure the 'down tube'? Seems that quite a few shoppers have used the downtube measurement when calling. Assuming every frame is designed around a 22.5" fork, the Downtube measurement would still be screwed up by the BB height. I have pushed for the 'cockpit' measurement as hanging a plum line to bisect the BB and taking a horizontal measurement from the vertical string to the top of the head tube is really the only way to gauge the feel of a DH bike when crouching over it in the attack position with only feet and hands in solid contact with the bike. This can be done on any brand or model. I like it! Thanks for everyones help on this, I will finish this column on the DHR specs today.

    DT
    Hi Dave,

    I like the horizontal measurement from bb to centre of head tube, gives the best indication of size of frame. But most people are used to top tube measurements, so why not put in both? I would also like these measurements for your FR and AM frames.

    You can even put in a paragraph in the catalog and on your website about your recommendations for sizing a new frame and how you go about it.

    Something along the line of measure an existing bike you feel comfortable on size wise, take X and X measurements then select an appropriate frame size. I think that would be more handy then giving height recommendations for frame sizing. Lets face it, people who buy turners are not n00bs and will already have a good idea of what feels right to them and just need a little info to get the right size.

    If you getting together the catalog does this mean the 09 RFX is now a 09.5 or 10 model seeing you have not finished designing yet? Any changes for the DHR next year, geo tweaks only?

    Cheers.

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