Damn you, Conti Vert Pro, damn you straight to hell !!!!!!!!- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
    Toby Wong?
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    Damn you, Conti Vert Pro, damn you straight to hell !!!!!!!!

    x-post from tires, but thought Bikezilla would "enjoy" this....

    You crapped out on me again! I've now blown sidewalls on 2 of these tires in 3 months. That's almost $100 down the drain. Does anyone have any suggestions for UST tires for for this 225 lb'er to run on his 5Spot? I know some people swear by these tires....now I just swear at them. I'm riding smooth, mostly dusty singletrack with big fat chocolate chip chunk rocks strewn about, many times off camber and downhill.


    you could fit a dime through the cut

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tappoix
    x-post from tires, but thought Bikezilla would "enjoy" this....
    BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

    Join the club my man. What really irks me is I always get the cut on a new tire. Usually just a few weeks. Dammm dude the casting lugs are still fresh on that hunk of rubber. It must be just days old.

    I patched one and am using it now. Even though the side wall bulges at the cut, the patch is holding. The bad news is UST patches are ~$11 for three.

    I really like UST, I'm open to suggestion for a good 2.3+ UST tire that rides like the VP but dosen't rip as easily.
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  3. #3
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    Iv'e had very good luck on my UST 5-Spot using

    Quote Originally Posted by Bikezilla
    BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

    Join the club my man. What really irks me is I always get the cut on a new tire. Usually just a few weeks. Dammm dude the casting lugs are still fresh on that hunk of rubber. It must be just days old.

    I patched one and am using it now. Even though the side wall bulges at the cut, the patch is holding. The bad news is UST patches are ~$11 for three.

    I really like UST, I'm open to suggestion for a good 2.3+ UST tire that rides like the VP but dosen't rip as easily.
    Scwalbe Fat Albert 2.35s and Specialized Enduro 2.2s on my Crossmax XLs. (both UST tires) I am going to try out a Hutchinson Octopus 2.5 UST (if I can somehow find one) or a Continental Diesel 2.5 (although after seeing the above pics I am not so sure about the continental. I too am sold on UST, I have not had single flat in one full year of riding (2-3 days per week)

  4. #4
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    Iv'e had very good luck on my UST 5-Spot using

    Quote Originally Posted by Bikezilla
    BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

    Join the club my man. What really irks me is I always get the cut on a new tire. Usually just a few weeks. Dammm dude the casting lugs are still fresh on that hunk of rubber. It must be just days old.

    I patched one and am using it now. Even though the side wall bulges at the cut, the patch is holding. The bad news is UST patches are ~$11 for three.

    I really like UST, I'm open to suggestion for a good 2.3+ UST tire that rides like the VP but dosen't rip as easily.
    Scwalbe Fat Albert 2.35s and Specialized Enduro 2.2s on my Crossmax XLs. (both UST tires) I am going to try out a Hutchinson Octopus 2.5 UST (if I can somehow find one) or a Continental Diesel 2.5 (although after seeing the above pics I am not so sure about the continental. I too am sold on UST, I have not had single flat in one full year of riding (2-3 days per week) but would prefer a better selection of tires (and at a lower cost)

  5. #5
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    I've been running Mich. Hot S UST 2.2 for a week now...

    ... after riding Vert Pro's for a year or so. Durability I'm not sure about yet (obviously), but I've been very pleased performance-wise so far. Excellent grip (dry and hard conditions as well as soft and tacky, haven't ridden true mud yet but seem promising), and feel very sure in corners. I like them better than the Vert's so far, time will tell.

    Similar to the vert's size-wise, too. Roll a little slower on pavement but can't really notice on the trail.

    Tommy
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  6. #6
    Bodhisattva
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    Easy fix Zilla. You can make that tire good as new with a standard $1 bike patch.

    Get yourself a $4 bottle of brake cleaner at an auto parts store.

    Spray the cleaner on rag and wipe it on the defect from the inside of the tire until the rag turns black. Blow it with a hair dryer for 30 seconds then repeat the above once again. Place cement from a standard patch kit on the defect and blow dry for a few minutes until the cement is dry. Apply the patch and you're good to go. Makes the tire good as new.
    I really like Schwalbe Big Jim UST tires but I can't say its any more/less durable than the Vert. I've had a Vert for 2 years and only had to patch it once because of a thorn. I've had no problems with my Schwalbe either. The only UST tire that gave me fits is the Michellin XLS which kept tearing. The new Hutch Spiders look like they'd be good for East Coast riding as well.

  7. #7
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    sorry to hear about that but the Pro Tection version of that tire (with reinforced side wall) has never let me down like that and I've been using them for the last 2 years with plenty of very rocky rides. I truly do not understand why people buy that tire without the side wall protection...

  8. #8
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    Ditto.

    Quote Originally Posted by cooldaddy
    sorry to hear about that but the Pro Tection version of that tire (with reinforced side wall) has never let me down like that and I've been using them for the last 2 years with plenty of very rocky rides. I truly do not understand why people buy that tire without the side wall protection...
    Two years on mine (w/Pro Tection) and no problems.

  9. #9
    FM
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    I got the straight UST poop for you fellows

    Since I have sort of a thing for large volume bargain tire shopping on eBay, especially of the UST variety. Some tires I've tried (all on my RFX with mavic X3.1's and stans goop):

    Geax Sturdy UST 2.25: My overall favorites. A little heavier the vert pro's but bigger, less wiggly, and much more durable casings. Still lighter than a true FR/DH tire. Perfect for aggro XC/light FR even on rocky terrain. Likes very low pressure. Very big for a 2.25.
    front is kinda weird in wet conditions.

    Hutchinson Spider 2.3 UST: A big F for durability. Weird that the casing is 1/2 as thick as my Scorpion. Lasted 1 ride on Mt Eldin, currently languishing in my shed. Complete waste of money- it's casing is lighter than most non-UST XC tires. true width is about 2.15.

    Hutchinson Scorpion 2.3 UST: Nice casing, thick but supple. Casing is 2x as thick as the spider, and tire is wider as well. Between the vert. pro and sturdy for durablity. Decent front tire for mud, and fast hardpack. Not so good on wet rocks and roots. Not too hot on slickrock either. Coming off my bike soon.

    IRC Kujo DH 2.25: picked up a pair of these for $30. Each weighs about the same as a nokian Gazza 2.5. Very thick sidewalls and casing, seemingly flat-proof even at -30psi. The sidewalls are so thick it seems they aren't capable of burping or bottoming out. Tight fit, no burping if you get them seated- it took 80 psi and lots of soap. They're making me a stronger climber! I like running one in back because it has good tread and true DH durablilty. Pretty good in all conditions, but the weight is kind of a downer for big climbs.

    Conti vert pro's: I liked them in spring/winter/fall washington conditions, but disliked the narrow width (really a 2.15), wiggly lugs for riding rock, and thin casings. Too many cuts riding rocky whistler XC... I'm passing on these except for maybe winter riding.

    So my favorite combo is: the geax sturdies F&R, or a sturdy in front and the kujo in back for rockier terrain.

    My buddy just put Nokian NBX 2.3 UST's on his heckler and they look great- similar to the sturdies....

  10. #10
    Toby Wong?
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    much appreciated, fellows...

    i'm gonna try to get this tire warrantied and see if the shop can't replace it with one of your suggestions

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooldaddy
    sorry to hear about that but the Pro Tection version of that tire (with reinforced side wall) has never let me down like that and I've been using them for the last 2 years with plenty of very rocky rides. I truly do not understand why people buy that tire without the side wall protection...
    I was under the impression that the "Protection" Version of the Verts is a non-UST tire only. No?
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM
    Since I have sort of a thing for large volume bargain tire shopping on eBay, especially of the UST variety. Some tires I've tried (all on my RFX with mavic X3.1's and stans goop)...
    Thanks FM and everyone. I have some thinking to do.

    I definately have very rocky conditions. Lots of roots and ruts too. No thorns, but lots of sharp rocks to scrape on. Wet conditions too, so traction on wet roots and rocks are important.

    I don't get the latex sealent though. other than thorns, how does it help? I can't see it preventing burping a UST or a rip. Those seem more like structural problems...no?
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  13. #13
    Bodhisattva
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    Latex helps create a tight seal between the sidewall & rim. It's rare that my tires burp and will only happen on a moderate drop of say 3 feet or so. Even then it's very unusual.

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    it appears you are correct, Protection is only available on the non-UST version. Didn't realize that. In that case I wouldn't use them...

  15. #15
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    At my skill level I smash into stuff I should be riding around. I'm amazed at how strong the UST Schwalbe tires are (I don't do any drops though). Able to run 30/35 lb. The sidewalls have hammered into cut down sapling stumps with a loud pop countless times, but no damage. Currently have on the Little Albert, the Fast Fred was the same = durable. Really pleased with them.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    Latex helps create a tight seal between the sidewall & rim. It's rare that my tires burp and will only happen on a moderate drop of say 3 feet or so. Even then it's very unusual.
    I've run the VP USTs for a year now and only burped them once...yesterday as a matter of fact. I was running lower than usual tire pressure ~35lbs which is low for my agressive 235lb laden weight. It didn't happen on a drop, but rather while cornering on a technical climb. I probabl hooked the tire between some rocks while turning the bike.

    Funny, it was as loud as a blowout. Still had half pressure. I could have rode it I had to. But just to be on the safe side I decided to pump it up some...and sheared the F'ing valve off. THEN I had to put a tube in....Laytex wasn't going to help then either.
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikezilla
    Thanks FM and everyone. I have some thinking to do.

    I definately have very rocky conditions. Lots of roots and ruts too. No thorns, but lots of sharp rocks to scrape on. Wet conditions too, so traction on wet roots and rocks are important.

    I don't get the latex sealent though. other than thorns, how does it help? I can't see it preventing burping a UST or a rip. Those seem more like structural problems...no?
    I'm currently running Geax Sturdys f(2.25) front and rear. They're great tires. My other favorite combo is WTB Weirwolf 2.5 front and Geax Sturdy rear. I use that combo in loose / damp conditions. The Weirwolf is a good tire on wet rocks and roots.

  18. #18
    rr
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikezilla
    I've run the VP USTs for a year now and only burped them once...yesterday as a matter of fact. I was running lower than usual tire pressure ~35lbs which is low for my agressive 235lb laden weight. It didn't happen on a drop, but rather while cornering on a technical climb. I probabl hooked the tire between some rocks while turning the bike.

    Funny, it was as loud as a blowout. Still had half pressure. I could have rode it I had to. But just to be on the safe side I decided to pump it up some...and sheared the F'ing valve off. THEN I had to put a tube in....Laytex wasn't going to help then either.

    Do they hold air?, I check my tire pressure once a week and lose about 5lbs. or less of pressure. I'm running the Vert. UST up front and a UST Fire Pro in the rear w/sealant.

    We have gnarly goat head thorns and the sealant ozes out of the tires all the time.

  19. #19
    crash and burn at 45
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    you cross posting maggot!!!! no flame here, he knows what I'm talking about.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by drydirtrider
    you cross posting maggot!!!! no flame here, he knows what I'm talking about.
    brrring it!

  21. #21
    KDK
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikezilla
    BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

    Join the club my man. What really irks me is I always get the cut on a new tire. Usually just a few weeks. Dammm dude the casting lugs are still fresh on that hunk of rubber. It must be just days old.

    I patched one and am using it now. Even though the side wall bulges at the cut, the patch is holding. The bad news is UST patches are ~$11 for three.

    I really like UST, I'm open to suggestion for a good 2.3+ UST tire that rides like the VP but dosen't rip as easily.
    I just joined this club Bikezilla !!!! The rear Conti "exploded" yesterday while I was riding in pavement !!!! Is it overinflation or a bad tyre ???

    I too like UST. What did you get eventually. I am between the Nokian NBX 2.3 and the Schwalbe Fat Albert 2.3.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDK
    I just joined this club Bikezilla !!!! The rear Conti "exploded" yesterday while I was riding in pavement !!!! Is it overinflation or a bad tyre ???

    I too like UST. What did you get eventually. I am between the Nokian NBX 2.3 and the Schwalbe Fat Albert 2.3.
    Well I've been still using my $50 Verts...just couldn't bring myself to chucking them. They held air pretty good on my new wheels. But last weekend after a good ride, I found them nearly flat the next morning. I think I must have picked up some thorns...I've never had that problem before. NEVER! Now what do I do? Buy a $40+ bottle of Stans for my USTs? Gaaah!

    I don't think the thorn issue is a Conti problem per-se. But if I can't find a way to resurect these otherwise lightly worn treds I'm going to have to buy something to replace them.

    NOW WHAT?
    -It's gotta be UST
    -It's gotta be at least 2.3
    -It's gotta be good on rocky rooty sketchy New England trails. This means wet slippery stuff too.

    I'm really intimidated about buying tires. The idea of spending ~$100 for a set and discovering I hate them would drive me nuts.

    Soooo I'm still open to suggestions...
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  23. #23
    Toby Wong?
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    i put the Geax Sturdy UST on for a rear tire and have been happy running them.

    Good knobby uptake, track well at speed, run well at lower pressure.

    a heavier tire but "Sturdy"

  24. #24
    Bodhisattva
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    I can fulfill 2 but not 3 of your requirements.
    Kenda Blue Groove in front & Nevegal in rear.
    2.35, and a big 2.35 at that, Stick-E rubber which is aptly named & relatively cheap at $28 each at Mtn High.
    Been running these since July with Stan's on my UST rims. Sure, I'd like to have UST tires too but I got a bit fed up with the limited selection and none of them grip well when wet. After 3 months of use I've had no problems with the standard tires. I ripped the rear but the tire was sufficiently worn out at that point. And Stick-E rubber is unbelievable. We have a trail up here which is Moab-esque in terms of the large sandstone rocks and these tires stick as well on wet rock as dry rock. Truly amazing.

    Downside: Not UST but I'm getting over that. Relatively quick wear. That's the trade for having stick-E rubber.

    Only UST Tire I really liked when I lived in Vermont was the Schwalbe Big Jims but they're a "small" 2.25. The Sturdy's look good but I didn't get around to trying them. Ditto the Nokian NBX and the 2.3 NBX UST weighs over a gram. That offended my hidden sense of weight-weenie-ness.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikezilla
    Well I've been still using my $50 Verts...just couldn't bring myself to chucking them. They held air pretty good on my new wheels. But last weekend after a good ride, I found them nearly flat the next morning. I think I must have picked up some thorns...I've never had that problem before. NEVER! Now what do I do? Buy a $40+ bottle of Stans for my USTs? Gaaah!

    I don't think the thorn issue is a Conti problem per-se. But if I can't find a way to resurect these otherwise lightly worn treds I'm going to have to buy something to replace them.

    NOW WHAT?
    -It's gotta be UST
    -It's gotta be at least 2.3
    -It's gotta be good on rocky rooty sketchy New England trails. This means wet slippery stuff too.

    I'm really intimidated about buying tires. The idea of spending ~$100 for a set and discovering I hate them would drive me nuts.

    Soooo I'm still open to suggestions...
    I highly recommend Geax Sturdys.

    Like you, my favorite tire was the Conti Vert Pro (tube version). I found that the Vert Pro had two major weaknesses. One was sidewall strength and the other was it's propensity to pinch flat. The UST version should answer the pinch flat issue, but not the sidewalls.

    I tried the Protection version and so far...so good.

    Then I tried Geax Sturdys at CrashTheDOG's recommendation. Great tires. They hook up better than the Verts in most conditions. They're positively huge in diameter and allow you to run very low pressures. They're also quite reasonably priced and not very heavy.

    If you're concerned about spending so much before you try the UST version, you can get a standard Sturdy for around $26. I've found that the Sturdys are better on wet roots than the Verts.

    I now have the Verts on my Fuel. That bike doesn't see the same rough terrain as the Spot.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    I can fulfill 2 but not 3 of your requirements.
    Kenda Blue Groove in front & Nevegal in rear. 2.35, and a big 2.35 at that, Stick-E rubber which is aptly named & relatively cheap at $28 each at Mtn High...
    I second that motion. Never ran 'em in the wet, but I'd Stans the suckers and call it good. Hell, run a tube the first couple of runs and if you like 'em then install the Stans. If not, you'll have no problems selling 'em for near what you paid from Mnt. High. That is as long as the sucker you're selling them to doesn't know about Larry .

    PS: Blue Shorts, if you like the Sturdy's (I still run them on occasion) give the Kenda BG & Nevegal a shot when the wear out. Definately a step in the right direct. I little more expensive due to the rapid wear, but IMO well worth it.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrashTheDOG
    I second that motion. Never ran 'em in the wet, but I'd Stans the suckers and call it good. Hell, run a tube the first couple of runs and if you like 'em then install the Stans. If not, you'll have no problems selling 'em for near what you paid from Mnt. High. That is as long as the sucker you're selling them to doesn't know about Larry .

    PS: Blue Shorts, if you like the Sturdy's (I still run them on occasion) give the Kenda BG & Nevegal a shot when the wear out. Definately a step in the right direct. I little more expensive due to the rapid wear, but IMO well worth it.
    Thanks for the recommendations. Your recommendation for the Sturdys was spot on. I love trying new tires. My current inventory (tires with >75% of tread left):

    3 - Panaracer FIre XC Pro 2.1
    2 - Geax Sturdy
    1 - Conti Vert pro 2.3
    1 - Conti Vert Protec 2.3
    4 - Bontrager Revolt Super X 2.1 (2 are brand new in boxes)
    2 - Hutch Python Lite 2.0
    2 - Panaracer Fire Mud Pro 1.9 (or is it 1.8?)
    2 - IRC Mud Mad DH 2.25 (brand new)
    1 - WTB Weirwolf 2.5 Race
    1 - Performance City Slick 1.0 (for trainer)

    I'm sure that it's not a lot of tires for Shiggy, but it is for me.

    What conditions do the BG and Nevegal excel in? Oh boy.....more tires!

  28. #28
    KDK
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDK
    I just joined this club Bikezilla !!!! The rear Conti "exploded" yesterday while I was riding in pavement !!!! Is it overinflation or a bad tyre ???

    I too like UST. What did you get eventually. I am between the Nokian NBX 2.3 and the Schwalbe Fat Albert 2.3.
    Here is the pic :

    Still cannot explain it.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  29. #29
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    I've run them on everything from smooth hardpack to sand to rock, including wet rock, and they've excelled in all facets. BG front/Nev rear is the best all around combo I've found to date. Haven't had them in thick mud yet. Not the fastest rolling tires due to the stick-e rubber & aggressive tread but not bad either.
    At this point the regular guys I ride with on the CO front range are all on this combo.

  30. #30
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    Another UST question,

    For the first time, I think I got some thorn punctures. Not sure but the morning after a ride I found both tires near flat. Pumped them up, and they were dead flat the next day. Assuming I actually find the thorn holes, what do I do?

    a) patch them with those insanely expensive UST patches (~$4 each)
    b) try to sand and patcht the inside with standard stuff
    c) try the liquid flat-fix sold in auto parts stores...anyone ever try this stuff? or is it a big no-no?

    I'm still trying to get over the price of Stans...it seems like a lot of money for laytex.

    As for tires, Maybe I'll give the Geax Sturdy USTs a try. The BG/Nevegal sounds interesting, but I really pinch flat too often to go back to tubes as a permantent solution. Hmmmm.....
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikezilla
    Another UST question,

    For the first time, I think I got some thorn punctures. Not sure but the morning after a ride I found both tires near flat. Pumped them up, and they were dead flat the next day. Assuming I actually find the thorn holes, what do I do?

    a) patch them with those insanely expensive UST patches (~$4 each)
    b) try to sand and patcht the inside with standard stuff
    c) try the liquid flat-fix sold in auto parts stores...anyone ever try this stuff? or is it a big no-no?

    I'm still trying to get over the price of Stans...it seems like a lot of money for laytex.

    As for tires, Maybe I'll give the Geax Sturdy USTs a try. The BG/Nevegal sounds interesting, but I really pinch flat too often to go back to tubes as a permantent solution. Hmmmm.....
    'Zilla, us big boys don't get no relief. I put a thorn or rock edge hole in the center tread area of my rear Geax Sturdy this weekend. I run them at low pressure so maybe I just pinned it to the rim, but i don't think so. Your question is wayyyy apropos.

    So any comment on his question is appreciated X2.

    thx guys

  32. #32
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    "Slime" makes a tubeless version. It has little black rubber chunks in it. A bottle is cheap. It works on 4-wheeler tires anyway. Regular slime doesn't work with tubeless (and doesn't work that well regardless). You can also just buy a bottle of Stans goop. That would work best anyway. It seals the holes. I have some I could send to you, but I think you should pony up the $20 for your own seeing as how you have a job and everything
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  33. #33
    Bodhisattva
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    UST patches?
    You don't need no stinkin' UST patches.

    All you need is a standard $2 patch kit & a $3 bottle of brake cleaner from an auto parts store.

    1- locate the defect
    2- spray brake cleaner on a clean rag & wipe the defect until the rag turns black.
    3- blow with hair dryer to save time or just wait several minutes
    4- repeat #2 & #3
    5- apply standard patch kit cement & blow with dryer until dry or wait 5 minutes.
    6- apply patch.
    7- go out & ride and try not to steer by impact.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    UST patches?
    You don't need no stinkin' UST patches.

    All you need is a standard $2 patch kit & a $3 bottle of brake cleaner from an auto parts store.

    1- locate the defect
    2- spray brake cleaner on a clean rag & wipe the defect until the rag turns black.
    3- blow with hair dryer to save time or just wait several minutes
    4- repeat #2 & #3
    5- apply standard patch kit cement & blow with dryer until dry or wait 5 minutes.
    6- apply patch.
    7- go out & ride and try not to steer by impact.
    you're a pal for posting that twice in the same thread

  35. #35
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    Whoa....I didn't catch that.

    Well, it's so important that I wanted it posted twice.

  36. #36
    rr
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikezilla
    Another UST question,

    For the first time, I think I got some thorn punctures. Not sure but the morning after a ride I found both tires near flat. Pumped them up, and they were dead flat the next day. Assuming I actually find the thorn holes, what do I do?

    a) patch them with those insanely expensive UST patches (~$4 each)
    b) try to sand and patcht the inside with standard stuff
    c) try the liquid flat-fix sold in auto parts stores...anyone ever try this stuff? or is it a big no-no?

    I'm still trying to get over the price of Stans...it seems like a lot of money for laytex.

    As for tires, Maybe I'll give the Geax Sturdy USTs a try. The BG/Nevegal sounds interesting, but I really pinch flat too often to go back to tubes as a permantent solution. Hmmmm.....
    Sealant should fix thorn holes, we have some nasty goat-head thorns here and the sealant works great sealing this size hole. I've been running the Vert's UST for awhile also and like them overall but they wear fast and the traction kinda sucks once they get worn. Larry at MHC is sending me a Schwalbe Fat Albert UST tire to try on the front and everyone says this tire works much better than the Verts, so maybe give it a try. I'm going try the Kenda BG/Nev. combo once it is available in UST.

    The King of Bling cannot be concerned about a $15 bottle of Stans

  37. #37
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    UST Gravity 2.3

    Although my Verts have held up so far there's a good write up of the 2.3 Gravity UST in this month's What MTB in the UK. Thing is I can't find them on sale anywhere! Anyone seen them, used them etc? I had a feeling the Vert was the only Conti 2.3 in UST but maybe this is a new release?

    Nick

  38. #38
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    I've been a big fan of verts for awhile but have seen similar problems still rate em esspecially in softer dry conditions.
    I have tried the below

    Nokian NBX 2.3 - good on hard pack but can be sketchy in off camber loss conditions and on roots, don't hold to well in slipperly wet conditions either, have moved away from these as have blown the side walls on the std tyres when using stans in ust mode.

    Conti Gravitys aren't very confidence inspiring in dry hardpack conditions or off camber sections, roots rocks, but again seem to suit softer conditions.

    The tyre I have been really impressed with and have never been a fan of Maxis until I tried them on an identical bike, are Maxis High Roller 2.35s these are fast and corner like they are on rails they leave the Nokian NBXs for dust not bad in the wet either and seem very predictable, there is a new UST option so I will try these and stan them then go ride and hopefully gain that little speed advantage over my riding buddies.

  39. #39
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    Summing it up for those with A.D.D...

    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    "Slime" makes a tubeless version. It has little black rubber chunks in it. A bottle is cheap. It works on 4-wheeler tires anyway. Regular slime doesn't work with tubeless (and doesn't work that well regardless). You can also just buy a bottle of Stans goop. That would work best anyway. It seals the holes. I have some I could send to you, but I think you should pony up the $20 for your own seeing as how you have a job and everything
    Thanks, it's not the finance it's the principal, not that I have a lot of principals but anyway...

    So NOBODY's tried regular automobile flat-fix? I ask because not only is it a good price but it's worked wonders on my vehicles tires.

    Thanks Squeak for the fixit tips I'll give it a try.(hmm funny I forgot about the first time you posted it in this thread...ADD strikes again)

    So for replacement tires it's looking like:
    Maxxis HighRollers 2.3 UST: "fast and corner like they are on rails they leave the Nokian NBXs for dust not bad in the wet either"
    Geax Sturdy UST: "A little heavier the vert pro's but bigger, less wiggly, and much more durable casings. Still lighter than a true FR/DH tire. Perfect for aggro XC/light FR even on rocky terrain. Likes very low pressure. Very big for a 2.25. front is kinda weird in wet conditions." ..."They hook up better than the Verts in most conditions. They're positively huge in diameter and allow you to run very low pressures" ... "The Sturdy is tremendously durable, pinch-resistant due to it's freakishly large casing volume, rolls well, and gets pretty decent traction " ... "Weirwolf/Sturdy ... Killer combo."
    Nokian NBX UST 2.3: "good on hard pack but can be sketchy in off camber loss conditions and on roots, don't hold to well in slipperly wet conditions either,"
    WTB Weirwolf UST (Front): "a good tire on wet rocks and roots." ... "The Weirwolf is simply the best cornering and braking front tire for dry conditions I have ever ridden. It does great on sand/gravel/pea-gravel. It would be very fast on hardpack too."
    Schwalbe Fat Albert UST: (Front) positive buzz.
    Kenda Blue Groove in front & Nevegal in rear with Stans: "Everything from smooth hardpack to sand to rock, including wet rock, and they've excelled in all facets"..." if you like the Sturdy's (these are) Definately a step in the right direction...a little more expensive due to the rapid wear "

    More thoughs anyone? I guess I should just jump in and get something.
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  40. #40
    FM
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    two more for the mix!

    Specialized Big Hit 2.5. Don't laugh- I was skeptical and found one of these on sale for $20, it's the best front tire I've tried in a long time! It's honestly quite large, has lots of small square lugs, not too tall. Doesn't pack up, not wiggly, and bigger & lighter than a sturdy. The sidewalls look to thin for it to be a good rear tire, but up front it's bomber. No UST, sorry.

    Hutchinson Scorpion 2.3 UST. Man, hutchinson tires are weird. I tried a spider 2.3 and it lasted about 5 miles. skinny and thin sidewalls, pathetic. But this Scorpion is huge for a 2.3, bigger than the sturdy, and has thicker sidewalls too. In fact it's so big, I had to adjust my front der. out, and I still get occasional chain rub in my granny/big cog. I guess this is about as big as you can go with a standard drivetrain. Anyways i reviewed this tire as a front before, and it was good but didn't have the lugs for slippery rock. However in the rear it's great! Smooth rolling for such a huge tire, thanks to the low-profile lugs which made it not-so-hot in front. I like it.

    I ran this combo on my hardtail last weekend, for "cheakamus challenge" (squamish to whistler off-road- 45 miles, 7k'). The course had tons of scree and rock gardens, especially since they are blasting to expand the highway... I ran probably 30psi in back, I could feel the rim...but I never got a flat and was able to clean a lot of sections that riders with skinnier tires walked. Crazy how the right tires make such a difference!

    PS, I picked up a cheap pair of gazzoloddi 2.3 duals, stay tuned for a review after my current set-up wears out.

    The big hit / Scorpion combo on my hardtail:



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  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikezilla
    Kenda Blue Groove in front & Nevegal in rear with Stans: "Everything from smooth hardpack to sand to rock, including wet rock, and they've excelled in all facets"..." if you like the Sturdy's (these are) Definately a step in the right direction...a little more expensive due to the rapid wear "

    More thoughs anyone? I guess I should just jump in and get something.
    Something else to consider, I ran standard Verts(non UST) with Stans and felt they were too squirmy and the tires felt like they were rolling over on fast corners. I'm sure this setup works well for lighter riders but I don't think its a great idea for our size. They were kevlar tires so maybe a heavier wire bead version of the Kendas would work well.

  42. #42
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    Well, well, well! I Cleaned my bike, pumped up my dead flat Verts and found YET ANOTHER SIDEWALL RIP!!! I think that'll do for the Contis, for me.

    Last call, Anyone have opinions on Geax Sturdies/WTB Weirwolf USTs vs. Maxxis High Rollers USTs ???

    it sounds like the Maxxis might edge out the Geax/WTB combo on wet rocks and roots....which will be what I'll be riding mostly the rest of this season.

    Thanks for the opinions!
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  43. #43
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    Don't be put off by the price of the stan's. Get yourself a $10 jar of latex mold-builder, $8 bottle of slime tubeless and have at it. I think my last recipe was 1 part latex to 2 parts slime and then thin w/water until runny. It works just as well as the Stan's and you'll have enough mold builder to use w/a second bottle of slime so it works out very economical.

    Good luck w/your dilemna.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Srexy
    Don't be put off by the price of the stan's. Get yourself a $10 jar of latex mold-builder, $8 bottle of slime tubeless and have at it. I think my last recipe was 1 part latex to 2 parts slime and then thin w/water until runny. It works just as well as the Stan's and you'll have enough mold builder to use w/a second bottle of slime so it works out very economical.

    Good luck w/your dilemna.
    Is your home brew any better than Stan's? I dislike messing with Stan's as it is and this whole witch's brew/mountain bike combo is sort of like mixing acid and jelly. How much improvement and/or savings do you achieve?
    I AM JUST A JERK

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirdir
    Is your home brew any better than Stan's? I dislike messing with Stan's as it is and this whole witch's brew/mountain bike combo is sort of like mixing acid and jelly. How much improvement and/or savings do you achieve?
    Took me a while to figure out the proportions but now that I have I think the mix is just as effective. I found the Slime on sale at Wally-world - $8 for 2 large bottles and the mold-builder was $10 at Michaels. I've probably brewed up the equivalent of 2 bottles of Stan's for this amount. Aside from the flat resistance - the homebrew appeals to my thrifty nature

  46. #46
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    New question here. Got Rim Strips?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    Kenda Blue Groove in front & Nevegal in rear.
    2.35, and a big 2.35 at that, Stick-E rubber which is aptly named & relatively cheap at $28 each at Mtn High.
    Been running these since July with Stan's on my UST rims.
    Hey Squeaky,

    Are you running rim strips in your UST rims with those non-UST tires? I've got a set of Blue Grooves (2.35's) and I'd like to run them on my Mavic XM819 wheelset. Can I mount 'em with just some Stan's or do I need a rim strip too? I'm afraid that they'll burp air too easy if I don't use a rim strip (that's what Stan says anyway). Thanks in advance for the info.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by cycljunkie
    Are you running rim strips in your UST rims with those non-UST tires? I've got a set of Blue Grooves (2.35's) and I'd like to run them on my Mavic XM819 wheelset. Can I mount 'em with just some Stan's or do I need a rim strip too? I'm afraid that they'll burp air too easy if I don't use a rim strip (that's what Stan says anyway).
    Hey cyclejunkie and all of you considering the use of Non-UST Tires w/Stans on UST rims there is a thread over in Wheels & Tires you might want to check out.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrashTheDOG
    Hey cyclejunkie and all of you considering the use of Non-UST Tires w/Stans on UST rims there is a thread over in Wheels & Tires you might want to check out.
    Thanks mate, I am too considering this route and the thread will be very useful !!

  49. #49
    trail fairy
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    Never been a fan of maxis but High Rollers for me

    Just completed the Day Night Thriller 12hr Mtb event in Taupo little old NZ,
    http://www.eventpromotions.co.nz/
    http://www.daynightthriller.co.nz/
    Riding an Ellsworth Moment setup with maxis exception series tyres 2.1 fr / 2.0 rear
    Stans No Tubes 38psi fr & r, course was pretty much a road ride on dirt but still fun
    what forest double single track we did have, these tyres rocked, accelerated as if on steroids cornered great and went where I wanted them too without a problem not bad on a bike like the moment which normally is to much for a 2.1 fr, I will be getting 2.3s for my general riding!! area. The conditions in the track varied from roots to loamy soil to the grass in the park enjoyed wish I had been a bit fitter as was pretty impressed how this bike went in this type of event now need to build up the fitness to catch my Turner buddy he beat me the b#$%^&*()#$%^&* d-
    ha get ya next time mudgy all that road riding has paid off,
    I guess I won the war but lost the battle, our team beat his team small consolation not that we were comepting agaisnt each others team !
    anyway back to the tyres definitley worth a try,but your conditions may play a big part with what suits u best, as does yr riding style.
    I have blown a sidewall off the Nokians as they tend to be soft in the side wall hence I mainly use UST tyres which are stiffer in this area depending on brand, to support the UST application, which you need on these capable 5+ inch trail bikes esspecially if you like to throw it around. The Maxis seem to be pretty good in this area..

  50. #50
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    Holy Moly! What a difference!

    What a difference a pound makes!

    I just got a Nokian NBX 2.3UST and Geezzzeeee!!! is this thing THICK!!! the sidewalls on this pony are as thick as the center line on my HT's slicks...and it's got the weight to go with it. +950g I think the vert pros were like 650g man ripped sidewalls are a thing of the past! and I just ripped my Contis 3 times in the last three weeks.

    Well we'll see if I can deal with the extra weight. But I don't think I'll be spending Sunday night patching this tire.
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  51. #51
    Just another FOCer
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    New question here. Front or rear?

    Zilla,

    Are you using the NBX tire up front or on the rear? I'm interested to hear your review of this tire. Large volume UST tires are hard to come by. I currently run a Weirwolf 2.5 with tube up front and a Vert Pro 2.3 Tubeless on the back. 823 rims.

    Thanks,

    Winston

  52. #52
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    On the Rear

    It's going on the rear.

    I'll be busting it up tomorrow and Sunday. I still have a Vert UST on the front. I don't seem to rip the front as much...knock on wood. But it's going to be in the wind soon too. The plan is to put a Weirwolf UST on the nose and a Geax Sturdy UST on the back.

    If I don't hate the NBX I may leave it on for a while...it's dammed heavy but after a dozen or so rips of the VPs I feel like overcompensating. You should see them, they almost look like gumwalls .
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikezilla
    It's going on the rear.

    But it's going to be in the wind soon too. The plan is to put a Weirwolf UST on the nose and a Geax Sturdy UST on the back.
    .
    Zilla...

    Have you purchased the Sturdy yet? I just started riding with that in wet conditions...well...really damp conditions. The Weirwolf workd great on the downhills, but I wasn't thrilled with the Sturdys on wet roots and rocks. I only have one wet ride on them.

    THe Sturdys are great on damp soil. Great traction!!!

  54. #54
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    In my (limited) time with Sturdies in the wet, I also found them a little subpar on wet rocks and roots, they tend to slip easily.
    Great on loose dry conditions and rocky trails. Mine weighed in at over 1000g per tire, but there is nothing slower than fixing a flat.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Wombat
    In my (limited) time with Sturdies in the wet, I also found them a little subpar on wet rocks and roots, they tend to slip easily.
    Great on loose dry conditions and rocky trails. Mine weighed in at over 1000g per tire, but there is nothing slower than fixing a flat.
    My only other experience with the sturdys does not really counts as really wet conditions. I was riding in the early mornings...and I thought the sturdys did well on the roots.

    Now, once the roots are saturated, it seemed worse with the sturdys. Better than the Verts on roots, but still not good. That's based one wet ride.

  56. #56
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    brake clearner or.....

    re: a few posts up, you can also use purple pvc primer to use regular patches on your ust tires. Rub some on, let it dry, do it again, and apply your patch while the rubber is still sticky. Works great for removing stickers from powdercoat or annodized too, I wouldn't get it near paint.............

  57. #57
    FM
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    Sturdies

    I've had about 5 pairs of sturdies now.... the first ride I did on sturdies ever was vancouver's northshore, on a wet spring day. At regular pressure I was bouncing all over the trail. I dropped 8psi or so to "doomed to pich-flat" tire pressure and they suddenly come to life- total velcro hook-up and no flats all day. Run them regular on dry days, but for wet conditions run them super low PSI, the thick sidewalls and flat, square profile thrive on it. They have been the winter tire of choice for my crew of buddies here in the PNW. Between my pals and I, we have tried every large UST tire available...conti's, nokian NBX's, michellin hot's, hutchinson octopus, spider, scorpion, and python..... sturdies win hands down for trail riding. The scorpion 2.3 UST's and NBX 2.3's are pretty good too.

    In retrospect, I liked the conti's and hutchinson spider's the least, both because they just don't hold up. I'm not counting the pythons sice they seemed to be XC race tires.

    Tire side note: Yesterday I took off my IRC kujo DH tubeless 2.35's and replaced them with a fresh set of UST sturdies. I've found the sturdies to be a little thin & light for the type of riding I do on my RFX in the summer, found these IRC's and LOVED them for BC riding. They are easily twice the weight of sturdies, never flatted, and they just won't wear at all. The sidewalls are so thick you only need enough pressure to keep them seated. Killer tires for FR/DH, very confidence inspriring. But, they are so heavy, I think I lost 2-3lbs by putting the sturdies back on. Now that I've lost 2+lbs of rotational weight I think the RFX will see a little more XC use. Those IRC's are going back on next summer though, for sure.



    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Wombat
    In my (limited) time with Sturdies in the wet, I also found them a little subpar on wet rocks and roots, they tend to slip easily.
    Great on loose dry conditions and rocky trails. Mine weighed in at over 1000g per tire, but there is nothing slower than fixing a flat.
    Last edited by FM; 10-24-2004 at 12:16 PM.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM
    I've had about 5 pairs of sturdies now.... the first ride I did on sturdies ever was vancouver's northshore, on a wet spring day. At regular pressure I was bouncing all over the trail. I dropped 8psi or so to "doomed to pich-flat" tire pressure and they suddenly come to life- total velcro hook-up and no flats all day. Run them regular on dry days, but for wet conditions run them super low PSI, the thick sidewalls and flat, square profile thrive on it. They have been the winter tire of choice for my crew of buddies here in the PNW. .
    That might explain the differences that I saw. I'm gonna take them out with lower pressure this time to see if they hook up better.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM
    I've had about 5 pairs of sturdies now.... the first ride I did on sturdies ever was vancouver's northshore, on a wet spring day. At regular pressure I was bouncing all over the trail. I dropped 8psi or so to "doomed to pich-flat" tire pressure and they suddenly come to life- total velcro hook-up and no flats all day. Run them regular on dry days, but for wet conditions run them super low PSI, the thick sidewalls and flat, square profile thrive on it. They have been the winter tire of choice for my crew of buddies here in the PNW. Between my pals and I, we have tried every large UST tire available...conti's, nokian NBX's, michellin hot's, hutchinson octopus, spider, scorpion, and python..... sturdies win hands down for trail riding. The scorpion 2.3 UST's and NBX 2.3's are pretty good too.

    In retrospect, I liked the conti's and hutchinson spider's the least, both because they just don't hold up. I'm not counting the pythons sice they seemed to be XC race tires.

    Tire side note: Yesterday I took off my IRC kujo DH tubeless 2.35's and replaced them with a fresh set of UST sturdies. I've found the sturdies to be a little thin & light for the type of riding I do on my RFX in the summer, found these IRC's and LOVED them for BC riding. They are easily twice the weight of sturdies, never flatted, and they just won't wear at all. The sidewalls are so thick you only need enough pressure to keep them seated. Killer tires for FR/DH, very confidence inspriring. But, they are so heavy, I think I lost 2-3lbs by putting the sturdies back on. Now that I've lost 2+lbs of rotational weight I think the RFX will see a little more XC use. Those IRC's are going back on next summer though, for sure.
    FM, what kind of pressure are you talking about. I run mine at about 30psi, I weigh about 150 with gear on.
    I am wondering if I could drop to 25psi for those rare occasions I actually ride in the wet. Of course it may be my lousy wet weather riding skills to blame rather than the sturdies (but I prefer to blame the tires)

  60. #60
    FM
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    To be honest, I don't often use a gauge- I just don't trust any of the three I own to be accurate at mtb pressures! I usually run low enough that I can see the tire begin to fold over if I put all my weight sideways into one wheel while off the bike- that's my guage. If there's any higher speed stuff, jumping, or If I ever feel the tire fold or bottom out while riding, I add 3-5psi. So, I guess you could say I run the least amount of pressure possible.

    A quick trip out to the bike shed shows:
    30psi front (specialized big hit pro 2.5, thin sidewalls) and
    28psi rear (hutchinson python UST, a really big 2.3)

    These are on my FR hardtail which was last ridden on a wet, slow twisty&rooty night ride with a few small hucks. I would say 25-30 psi is totally fair game for sturdies. BTW I'm 170lbs. take it with a grain of salt though- I know your trails have a lot more rock & high speed, but nearly as slow&rooty as seattle stuff.


    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Wombat
    FM, what kind of pressure are you talking about. I run mine at about 30psi, I weigh about 150 with gear on.
    I am wondering if I could drop to 25psi for those rare occasions I actually ride in the wet. Of course it may be my lousy wet weather riding skills to blame rather than the sturdies (but I prefer to blame the tires)

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Shorts
    Zilla...

    Have you purchased the Sturdy yet?
    Not yet, I'm waiting on a one from big L.

    I ran a NBX on the rear yesterday and today. One of the more aggressive rocky rooty trails. Fall makes it that much tougher with damp leaves everywhere. Performance opinions? I need more time but traction wise, either this tire is nearly identical to the verts or I simply lack the capacity to analize tire performance.(the latter being the more likely)

    As a rear tire:
    I can't say with this with any conviction but, they seem to hook up about the same as the Contis (Vert Pros). They track fairly well, great on loam but then loam provides it's own traction. Climbs dry rock quite well, same qualifier there. It feels stronger, beefier more confident than the conti. It took a helluva beating and scraping w/o a worry. Every time I scraped a corner with the conti I wondered if I'd flat.

    I'm rather suprised to read from Wombat that the Sturdies weigh 1000g I guess all the solid ~2.3 tires are pig heavy...this NBX is listed as 990g and is hella-heavy compared the the Verts at 680g. On my Fish scale, the Vert was 1lb 10oz the NBX was 2lbs 5oz. I keep saying that for my weight, and style I shouldn't gripe about weight but every upgrade seems to add a pound to my bike.

    The tire feels vertically stiffer than the conti at the same pressure. I run ~38psi according to my floor pump gague. I'll try them softer, but I'm 225lbs now...so I doubt I can go much lower w/o problems.

    Last licks on the verts. I noticed most if not all of my sidewall rips have occured on my rear tire. I'll take a tight corner and tire-cheat will put my rear tire on the edge of the rock my front just squeaked by. So it's as much my fault as a pilot as it is the verts for being paper thin.

    Pics below...note the Conti now has 4 patches inside. Oh, and BIG THANKS to Squeaky Wheel for the brake cleaner patching tips, it works like a charm. At least as good as the expensive UST patches.

    Pix of the Conti Vert Pro below and Nokian NBX in the next post...
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    Last edited by Bikezilla; 10-24-2004 at 10:51 PM.
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  62. #62
    Lay off the Levers
    Reputation: Bikezilla's Avatar
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    Here's the Nokian NBX...BTW didjanotice the conti is scraped to the point that it almost looks like a gumwall?

    Sorry about the dark Yoke shots. It was late and I wanted to get done.
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    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  63. #63
    mad aussie
    Reputation: Flying Wombat's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Bikezilla]

    I'm rather suprised to read from Wombat that the Sturdies weigh 1000g I guess all the solid ~2.3 tires are pig heavy...this NBX is listed as 990g and is hella-heavy compared the the Verts at 680g. On my Fish scale, the Vert was 1lb 10oz the NBX was 2lbs 5oz. I keep saying that for my weight, and style I shouldn't gripe about weight but every upgrade seems to add a pound to my bike.
    QUOTE]

    Actually stuck 2 Sturdies on the scale, one of them weighs right in at 860 grams, the seconds weighs 1030 grams!!!!
    That was one of a pair that I got on clearance from the dark depths of a bike shop back room. Both of them weigh in at 1000 grams. I cant explain the difference, perhaps I got a freakily heavy set.
    If anyone else has a spare Sturdy hanging around perhaps they could throw it on the scale.

    Zilla, climbing with heavy tires builds character. It is amazing that I used to race on a 23lb racer-X, and now my bike weighs in at 31lb. When I want light I just take out my 16lb Giant road bike (or it used to be until I added a powertap rear wheel, thorn resistant tubes and tire liners, I hate flats)

  64. #64
    I think I need to Upgrade
    Reputation: AzSpeedfreek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tappoix
    x-post from tires, but thought Bikezilla would "enjoy" this....

    You crapped out on me again! I've now blown sidewalls on 2 of these tires in 3 months. That's almost $100 down the drain. Does anyone have any suggestions for UST tires for for this 225 lb'er to run on his 5Spot? I know some people swear by these tires....now I just swear at them. I'm riding smooth, mostly dusty singletrack with big fat chocolate chip chunk rocks strewn about, many times off camber and downhill.


    you could fit a dime through the cut

    Try one of the new 2bliss tires from Specialized. They have (you better sit down for this one) a 100% satisfaction warranty/garantee(sp), which means if you are unhappy with the tire for ANY reason you can exchange it for another Specialized tire for equal or lesser value. This warranty even applies if you cut the sidewall!!!!!!! All you have to do is take the tire into the shop where you bought it, or a shop that sells Specialized tires and they will exchange it for you. If you don't believe me then look in the Specialized catalog or on the tire packaging.

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