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  1. #1
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    Convince me to sell my bikes and get a 5 Spot

    I currently have a 2008 Nomad with a Lyrik coil, about 31.5#, and a Motolite at about 27#. Recently, I have been thinking that the Nomad is a bit more bike than I need and the ML just isn't for me due to the steep HTA. Going from the Nomad to the ML just doesn't feel right now that I've been spending more time on the Mad. Plus, both bikes squat pretty bad and it bothers the hell put of me on the climbs - especially with the extra weight on the Mad.

    I was contemplating selling the Nomad/Lyrik and the ML frames and getting a BLT but now that the 5 Spot is on sale, it might be a contender. I am looking for a bike that can still hang on the downhills but trying to lose some weight in the process. I know the 5 Spot isn't the lightest 140mm out there but hoping the DW magic is all that it is hyped up to be.

    One of my other concerns is dropping the Lyrik. I absolutely love that fork - it eats up the DH chop and off camber roots like they aren't there. The Lyrik has a 1.5 inch HT and it is fairly heavy. My revelation isn't quite as stiff with its 15mm TA and 3.6# chassis.

    So, anyone come from a Nomad to a Spot and have any comparisons to share? Do you think I'd be happy with the Spot if I was running a Rev at 150 and a 15mm TA? Is the front end going to track well enough not to miss the Lyrik?

    What about the climbing capabilities of the Spot? Is it that much better than VPP to warrant the cost of a frame swap but no weight loss (if I keep the Lyrik)?

    I'm confusing myself as I write this - sorry if I am doing the same to yall.

  2. #2
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    best thing to do if possible is to demo one and then decide

  3. #3
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    yes, demoing is always best but that isn't an option for me here.

  4. #4
    MW
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    I can't address the meat of your question (about DW vs. VPP characteristics), but I wanted to suggest that a Spot + Lyrik pairing could be sweet: slackens the bike a bit while adding some burl, which sounds like what you're wanting? It's worth considering, even if it means swapping out your 1.5in upper assembly, especially since you like the Lyrik so much. Just my two cents. --Matt

  5. #5
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    can the 2011 spot run a straight 1.5 steer tube? I assume it can if it can run a tapered steer.

  6. #6
    MW
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    Quote Originally Posted by mnigro View Post
    can the 2011 spot run a straight 1.5 steer tube? I assume it can if it can run a tapered steer.
    Yes, but with limited headset options, as per this thread: http://forums.mtbr.com/turner/daft-q...ot-746187.html.

  7. #7
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    Just do it ! Run a talas or float 36. I had a Nomad ,loved it, but once i put the talas 36 on my DW spot its a better all around ride. Got rid of the Nomad and treated my self to a bunch of Hope preducts.
    trlridr

  8. #8
    Daniel the Dog
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    Apples and oranges. If I wanted to run 160 fork I would keep the Nomad. Better balance! I own a 5 Spot and have ridden a Nomad. The Nomad feels more all mountain.

  9. #9
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    I own both and yes - the DWL does live up to the hype. Even with an air shock, the capacity of the DWL 5.Spot to soak $h!t up is mind blowing. However, if you can do it, you should keep the Nomad. If you don't, I guarantee you will regret it. As great as the 5.spot is, there is just no way it can hang with the Nomad on the downhills. Keep the Nomad; get rid of the ML; do whatever it takes to get an `11 5.spot frame.

  10. #10
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    damn you, expat. if I only get rid of the ML, the money isn't there to get the 5 spot. The ML is built up fairly nice with XT and the Rev XX.

    My other option is to get rid of the ML and pick up a Blur 4x frame.

    Can you give me a comparison between the 5 and the Mad? I was ripping down a somewhat unfamiliar section of singletrack yesterday when I cam upon a down tree that had been built up for a smoothish entry. It was still damn sharp vert on the front end and was about 2 ft off the ground. On the ML I would have slowed down considerably and taken it with an up and over creep. On the Nomad, no brakes at all - just got back behind the saddle and the Nomad ate it up. It was like going over a speed bump in a Lexus... the Nomad absolutely kills on techy DH. I do fear loosing this capability.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by mnigro View Post
    damn you, expat. if I only get rid of the ML, the money isn't there to get the 5 spot. The ML is built up fairly nice with XT and the Rev XX.

    My other option is to get rid of the ML and pick up a Blur 4x frame.

    Can you give me a comparison between the 5 and the Mad? I was ripping down a somewhat unfamiliar section of singletrack yesterday when I cam upon a down tree that had been built up for a smoothish entry. It was still damn sharp vert on the front end and was about 2 ft off the ground. On the ML I would have slowed down considerably and taken it with an up and over creep. On the Nomad, no brakes at all - just got back behind the saddle and the Nomad ate it up. It was like going over a speed bump in a Lexus... the Nomad absolutely kills on techy DH. I do fear loosing this capability.
    Get the Spot, set it up with a coil & Lyrik & you will never go back to the Nomad Yes, I have owned both versions of Nomad (07 & an 09). Spot climbs much better than the 1st gen Nomad & slightly better than the new gen, but descends, overall, better than both IMO (especially the new generation Nomad). I had both Nomads set up with coil & 160 forks, just like my Spot.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by inkpad View Post
    Get the Spot, set it up with a coil & Lyrik & you will never go back to the Nomad Yes, I have owned both versions of Nomad (07 & an 09). Spot climbs much better than the 1st gen Nomad & slightly better than the new gen, but descends, overall, better than both IMO (especially the new generation Nomad). I had both Nomads set up with coil & 160 forks, just like my Spot.
    This makes sense to me...

    I was looking at the nomad geometry and angles on Santa Cruz Bicycles, they are 67.0 head and 71.5 seat 14 BB.
    This is when I noticed that these are the same (or very very close) to those that I had worked out on CAD for a 2011 5.Spot with a 545mm A/C fork on the front…I thought this was pretty interesting.

    It's the blue diagram http://forums.mtbr.com/turner/revela...st8554667.html

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by mnigro View Post
    damn you, expat.

    On the Nomad, no brakes at all - just got back behind the saddle and the Nomad ate it up. It was like going over a speed bump in a Lexus... the Nomad absolutely kills on techy DH. I do fear loosing this capability.
    This is exactly it. As much as I love my 5.spot I have never had that feeling where I think it can handle just about anything I throw at it. That is what I would miss if i got rid of my nomad. But a big caveat here is that I have a 150 air fork on my spot not a 160; and I have the 2010 frame so the bike is not as slack. The nomad is close to 2* slacker.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by mnigro View Post
    I currently have a 2008 Nomad with a Lyrik coil, about 31.5#, and a Motolite at about 27#. Recently, I have been thinking that the Nomad is a bit more bike than I need and the ML just isn't for me due to the steep HTA. Going from the Nomad to the ML just doesn't feel right now that I've been spending more time on the Mad. Plus, both bikes squat pretty bad and it bothers the hell put of me on the climbs - especially with the extra weight on the Mad.

    I was contemplating selling the Nomad/Lyrik and the ML frames and getting a BLT but now that the 5 Spot is on sale, it might be a contender. I am looking for a bike that can still hang on the downhills but trying to lose some weight in the process. I know the 5 Spot isn't the lightest 140mm out there but hoping the DW magic is all that it is hyped up to be.

    One of my other concerns is dropping the Lyrik. I absolutely love that fork - it eats up the DH chop and off camber roots like they aren't there. The Lyrik has a 1.5 inch HT and it is fairly heavy. My revelation isn't quite as stiff with its 15mm TA and 3.6# chassis.

    So, anyone come from a Nomad to a Spot and have any comparisons to share? Do you think I'd be happy with the Spot if I was running a Rev at 150 and a 15mm TA? Is the front end going to track well enough not to miss the Lyrik?

    What about the climbing capabilities of the Spot? Is it that much better than VPP to warrant the cost of a frame swap but no weight loss (if I keep the Lyrik)?

    I'm confusing myself as I write this - sorry if I am doing the same to yall.

    I went from a revelation 150 to a lyric u-turn 160 and love it. It really stiffened up the front end and was worth the extra 3/4 # IMO. It really woke the bike up. I love my 5 spot, fantastic all around bike.

  15. #15
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    The Nomad and the 5spot are two bikes with different capabilities. I own a sixpack and can't part with it. You have to look at the bikes geometry which is the most important aspect of a new ride. I need a bike with at least a 24" toptube before I start looking at component speck or even head angle. When I purchased my 2005 heckler I was dissapointed that the toptube was a little short, but the ride for a single pivot bike was great. Its always nice to build a new bike. If you have the cash keep both then sell the loser.

  16. #16
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    mnigro,
    I just sold my 2010 Nomad to go back to the 2011 5 Spot (I had an 05 spot before the Nomad)

    For me, the Nomad was overkill for 85% of my riding. I ride a lot of tight turned, techy, rocky, northeast singletrack. The Nomad felt big and dumb to me on this type of terrain. It just never felt like I was getting back form the bike what I put in. It lumbered around turns and was not the last word in acceleration. Don't get me wrong, I liked the Nomad, I just didn't love it for the terrain I ride. The Nomad was more at home when you had the room and speed to open it up. I even spent some days riding park style downhill on it, where it excelled. Jumps, berms, high-speed rollers...awesome. Wide open, brakes-off descents...even better.
    If you're a skier...I Iiken the Nomad to a GS ski. Does a little bit of everything, but is more at home making wide radius turns.

    The 5 Spot gives up a little to the Nomad's descending prowess in trade for cat-like agility. It's a slalom ski. Great for ripping tights bends around trees. Quick acceleration, and flickable from side to side. I would not feel as comfortable running park style downhills on the 5 Spot as I did my Nomad. Luckily, I also have a DH bike and won't have to.

    The 5 Spot is not as laterally rigid as the Nomad (another Nomad strength), there is some lateral flex front and rear. But, I'm 6'1 and 200# and am running a 150 Revelation. I own a Lyrik, but have yet to try it out on the Spot since the Rev is much more plush. Again for 85% of the time, the Rev is plenty, but I do miss the stiffness of a larger fork. I would consider a Fox 36 Float in the future.

    Oddly enough, I'd consider the sensation of rear travel equal between the bikes. The Nomad with an RP23 felt like it had no more travel than the new 5 spot. It rode kind of harsh to me like it was resistant to getting that last bit of travel. The Spot will use all it's travel, but I've yet to get a harsh bottom out.

    Climbing goes to the 5 Spot. Not due to differences in weight, the rear tire just seems to find more traction. The Nomad was a decent climber but I think it was due to the long chain stays keeping the front end planted. It sounds cliche, but yes, I am able to make steep, techie climbs on the spot more easily than I did my nomad.

    If you're willing to give up a little DH ability for XC agility, I suggest running the spot with your Lyrik. That should solve the front end flex issue. There's not much you can do about the rear end except buy the 2012 rear end aftermarket when they're available. The Maxle should help, but I doubt it would be as stiff as the Nomad is.

    More random opinions...
    I noticed my nomad would lock onto lines with ease, requiring little adjustment after I've set the course. It was like having auto pilot. I didn't need to think or worry about it going off line.
    The 5 spot, requires more input and attention. It needs guiding into, throughout, and out of turns and may need correcting at any point. It's less forgiving of laziness, but I like this. It's a more engaging experience. At times, I felt like I was a passenger on the Nomad.

    As to giving back, the 5 Spot feels like it wants to be pushed harder and faster in the tight stuff and when accelerating. You step on the gas, and it goes. The nomad would do this too, but it needed to be heading downhill at higher speeds with plenty of room to turn.

    End of long winded post...

  17. #17
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    k1creeker, great comparison. I agree with a lot about what you said regarding how the Nomad handles. The Nomad feeling big and dumb is spot on - no pun intended. It's also a very good description of how the Nomad handles in regards to just being along for the ride. That is the one statement that I think rings most true. Although, I love how it handles once the trail points down for extended periods of time.

    Tell me a bit about how the rear end feels in regards to the 5 Spot sitting higher up in its travel. I actually like the Nomad with about 30% sag but then hate how it squats when climbing - this is my biggest complaint about it. I heard that you can run the DW Links at any sag point and get the same pedaling characteristic. Is this true?

    Thanks for the help!!!

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by mnigro View Post
    k1creeker, great comparison. I agree with a lot about what you said regarding how the Nomad handles. The Nomad feeling big and dumb is spot on - no pun intended. It's also a very good description of how the Nomad handles in regards to just being along for the ride. That is the one statement that I think rings most true. Although, I love how it handles once the trail points down for extended periods of time.

    Tell me a bit about how the rear end feels in regards to the 5 Spot sitting higher up in its travel. I actually like the Nomad with about 30% sag but then hate how it squats when climbing - this is my biggest complaint about it. I heard that you can run the DW Links at any sag point and get the same pedaling characteristic. Is this true?

    Thanks for the help!!!
    I run about 25% sag on my 5Spot and ran about 33% on the Nomad (both RP23s).

    I've tried running more sag on the Spot, but it's at the expense of ground clearance and the ride was not necessarily more plush. I did have an increase in pedal strikes...again... really rocky terrain.

    The new spot's suspension is weird in that it feels like it rides high in it's travel and feels like "the next big hit is going to sting"...and then it doesn't. The back end just soaks it up without complaint. It's especially strange coming off the old Horst link and TNT spots which were much more active in their travel. They felt plusssshhhhh, but at some expense of efficiency.

    The new DWL spot is not harsh, but it seems content to hangout in the middle of the stroke until the last bit of stroke (or rebound/top out stroke) is needed. Hard to explain but there is not as much motion though all parts of the stoke as there was on the old HL and TNT models. But it's not harsh...again, weird.

    Two more personal opinions: I didn't like the way the Nomad climbed in the granny gear. It felt like I was, through chain tension (a) supporting my own weight, and (b) getting the bike up the hill. Almost as if I were to stop pedaling, the bottom bracket would sink through to the ground. There was also a bit of biopacing.

    That said, the 5 Spot also feels a little weird in the granny on steep climbs. Not as bad as the Nomad, but still a little "lumpy". I may just be ultra sensitive to pedal feedback. There is some on the Spot, not as much as the Nomad.

    Back to the rear end riding high...I think this is where a 160 fork with 35-36mm stanchions would help with balance. The bike feels a hair steep when coming off the Nomad, and the extra ground clearance wouldn't hurt either.

    Hope this helps.

  19. #19
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    sweet write up. thanks again for going into more detail. I've ridden single pivots, Horst links (3) and VPP. I actually think the single pivot was pretty good butthe brake jack was horrible. We have a lot of long descents which are littered with large roots and end in a sharp corner. The SP's always suffered as you tried to slow before blowing through those corners. Otherwise, they climbed pretty good. The Horts that i've ridden were exactly the opposite. Lots of traction thru braking and climbing but the loss of energy on the climbs is severe. The ML sinks so far into the travel on steep climbs it is ridiculous - bobs like crazy otherwise. Not a big deal on shorter rides but on long hauls I need every bit of energy going into forward propulsion.

    I gotta make up my mind here...

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by mnigro View Post
    sweet write up. thanks again for going into more detail. I've ridden single pivots, Horst links (3) and VPP. I actually think the single pivot was pretty good butthe brake jack was horrible. We have a lot of long descents which are littered with large roots and end in a sharp corner. The SP's always suffered as you tried to slow before blowing through those corners. Otherwise, they climbed pretty good. The Horts that i've ridden were exactly the opposite. Lots of traction thru braking and climbing but the loss of energy on the climbs is severe. The ML sinks so far into the travel on steep climbs it is ridiculous - bobs like crazy otherwise. Not a big deal on shorter rides but on long hauls I need every bit of energy going into forward propulsion.

    I gotta make up my mind here...

    I am really happy I came back to the Spot but it may not be for everyone. I didn't get to ride either one, but I wonder if the Firebird or mach 5.7 should also be on your short list.

  21. #21
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    I think the Spot is the best all-around frame out there. I'm selling my hardtail and RFX because this bike can do everything both of those bikes can, it's right in between; light enough for extended climbs that I normally only did on my hardtail, burly enough for anything my RFX and I could handle. And to top it off, I'm not burnt from climbing like I was with my RFX.

    But like others said, you'll never know until you try it. Oh, and I'd keep the Lyrik for the Spot too. That'll make it more slack and a similar feel to the Nomad up front.
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  22. #22
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    Just wanted to echo what most people have already said. I think K1's description of the 2011 Spot nails it. I came off an '07 RFX and feel that the 5Spot really does do everything better, especially with a 160mm fork. It's hard to believe, but I haven't even noticed that it has an inch less travel. The DW link is just so much more efficient at using its travel. No wallowing, no harsh bottoming, no fuss. I was a die hard DW RFX holdout until my RFX recently cracked a rocker and I was "forced" to buy a Spot on sale. After riding the 2011 5Spot for the past couple of months, I'm confused about when I'd actually need the RFX. And believe me, I thoroughly enjoy being over-biked. I can only see myself wanting it in REALLY fast chunky conditions, or if I lived in a place where there were more man made jump features (i.e. BC, north shore, etc.).

    All that being said, I firmly reserve the right to blow my wad on a new RFX the minute it hits showroom floors.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by k1creeker View Post
    I run about 25% sag on my 5Spot and ran about 33% on the Nomad (both RP23s).

    I've tried running more sag on the Spot, but it's at the expense of ground clearance and the ride was not necessarily more plush. I did have an increase in pedal strikes...again... really rocky terrain.

    The new spot's suspension is weird in that it feels like it rides high in it's travel and feels like "the next big hit is going to sting"...and then it doesn't. The back end just soaks it up without complaint. It's especially strange coming off the old Horst link and TNT spots which were much more active in their travel. They felt plusssshhhhh, but at some expense of efficiency.

    The new DWL spot is not harsh, but it seems content to hangout in the middle of the stroke until the last bit of stroke (or rebound/top out stroke) is needed. Hard to explain but there is not as much motion though all parts of the stoke as there was on the old HL and TNT models. But it's not harsh...again, weird.

    Two more personal opinions: I didn't like the way the Nomad climbed in the granny gear. It felt like I was, through chain tension (a) supporting my own weight, and (b) getting the bike up the hill. Almost as if I were to stop pedaling, the bottom bracket would sink through to the ground. There was also a bit of biopacing.

    That said, the 5 Spot also feels a little weird in the granny on steep climbs. Not as bad as the Nomad, but still a little "lumpy". I may just be ultra sensitive to pedal feedback. There is some on the Spot, not as much as the Nomad.

    Back to the rear end riding high...I think this is where a 160 fork with 35-36mm stanchions would help with balance. The bike feels a hair steep when coming off the Nomad, and the extra ground clearance wouldn't hurt either.

    Hope this helps.
    That is a good description. The dw link does take some time to get used to. The peddle feedback in the granny is there but a lot less than on a vpp bike. I can actually "feel"the chain tension doing its thing.

    I also find that anything but a minimal amount of rebound dampening gives a harsh ride. I have been running with about 30% sag and one click from full fast rebound. With that, I get a downhill ride that is as almost as good as my old HL Motolite.

  24. #24
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    Ok dont shoot me but get a Mojo HD for versatility,

    You can run it @140 mm with a 7.875 x2 shock
    You can run it @150 mm with a 7.875 x2.25 shock
    Or 160mm with 8.5x2.5

    Keep a 150mm rev and RP23 for trail rides and get the limbo chips a 8.5x2.5 coil shock and a 160mm-180mm fork for DH duties.

    I am cheating now with a 170mm fork and 150mm in the rear.. pretty slack but still climbs well and very responsive. The 160mm rear is a bit plusher but does not climb and pop as well.

  25. #25
    Daniel the Dog
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    HD looks very sweet! I would get a Nomad, RFX, El Quapo, etc., if I wanted a more balanced ride with a 160mm fork. The El Quapo is on sale at $999. Not bad

  26. #26
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    kidwoo, re: username, talking about me I assume... ?

    motoguru, I'd love a Mojo. If money were no issue, I'd already have one. The HD is almost $1k more than the 5 Spot. If the Spot wasn't on sale it would't be in the cards either.

    Jaybo, I have a Nomad and looking to potentially move from that to the Spot.

  27. #27
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    I think the bigger question is how that username has gone on for so long with no one noticing.
    STRAVA: Enabling dorks everywhere to get trails shut down........ all for the sake of a race on the internet.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by mnigro View Post
    sweet write up. thanks again for going into more detail. I've ridden single pivots, Horst links (3) and VPP. I actually think the single pivot was pretty good butthe brake jack was horrible. We have a lot of long descents which are littered with large roots and end in a sharp corner. The SP's always suffered as you tried to slow before blowing through those corners. Otherwise, they climbed pretty good. The Horts that i've ridden were exactly the opposite. Lots of traction thru braking and climbing but the loss of energy on the climbs is severe. The ML sinks so far into the travel on steep climbs it is ridiculous - bobs like crazy otherwise. Not a big deal on shorter rides but on long hauls I need every bit of energy going into forward propulsion.

    I gotta make up my mind here...
    I would say go with the Spot. At $1600 it is a steal. The versatility of the bike, being able to run 140-160mm forks with several geometry options is really a great option. The bike tackles climbs amazingly and just shoots you forward. With my ML, before a climb I would have to make sure PP was on and the fork travel was reduced (ran 160mm fork on my ML). With the Spot, you just peddle. Really simple and fantastic. This bike will make you look for every hill to climb.

    The bike is not magically better than other bikes on the downs but it is not bad. I made a comparison with my Motolite as a positive attribute. My ML had a HV Pushed RP23 with the push bottom out bumper and I had spent 2 years really getting it dialed in (with multiple trips back to PUSH). The bike rocks on the descents and would suck up most things in its way. PUSH also takes care of the wallowing and squatting (to a limit) of the shock - but it is no 5 Spot.

    Overall, as a package, the Spot is hard to beat. It is not perfect but it is well thought out and lots of fun.

    As people have said, the EG at $999 is a steal but for a $600 more you can get the Spot. If climbing is your thing, get the spot. If you want pure plushness, maybe try the EG.

  29. #29
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    Let's just cut to the chase, shall we?

    If you don't sell your bikes and buy a five spot within the next 48 hours, I will shoot this kitten in the face.


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    well, looks like that's going to be one dead *****. I've decided to lighten up the Nomad by a few pounds and get rid of the MotoLite in favor of a shorter travel trail bike that fits my riding style better. I'd love t get the Spot but not being able to ride one has made the decision a bit more difficult than normal.

    thanks everyone for all of your help. I might regret this decision in time but there will be other great deals on other great frames. I just need to convince Ibis that they need to replace the HD next year and put that frame on clearance

    edit: forgot to mention that I'll be sending the shock from the Mad to Push to try and tune out some of the unwanted squat. From the feedback that i've seen, they do a pretty good job tuning that out of the ride.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by mnigro View Post
    well, looks like that's going to be one dead *****. I've decided to lighten up the Nomad by a few pounds and get rid of the MotoLite in favor of a shorter travel trail bike that fits my riding style better.
    So that'd be a Flux, then?

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by MW View Post
    So that'd be a Flux, then?
    i looked at the Blur TRc in the past, not that it would ever happen, but I just found a Blur 4x in nice condition and it should work out perfect. we'll see.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by mnigro View Post
    i looked at the Blur TRc in the past, not that it would ever happen, but I just found a Blur 4x in nice condition and it should work out perfect. we'll see.
    You mean there are bikes other than Turners?

    Nah, I'm being a clown. Flux is a -sweet- bike, though, if you're looking for a full-squish XC rocket: was true for my old TNT flux, imagine it's doubly true for the DW version.

    Love the idea of a Blur 4x as a short-travel trail bike! Someone on these forums had suggested that to me several years ago (scruffylooking, I think?), but I didn't get it at the time. Makes perfect sense now, though.

    [EDIT] Just poked around the SC site: when did they stop making the Blur 4x?? [/EDIT]

    --Matt

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    2009 was the last production year. Gotta be selective in who you buy from, I guess, but that bike is supposed to be as burly as the VP Free was. It should be a pretty safe bet that the frame will hold up for a few more years of thrashing.

    Between the prices for frames lately and what Rockshox is asking for their forks (Fox has always been delusional) it is getting crazy out there. Don't these guys know we're in a recession????

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    I'm curious about the 5 Spot vs Nomad thing

    I've got an '11 Spot and was wondering if any of you who have owned both a Spot and Nomad could describe how the Spot descends with a coil compared to a Nomad? Just curious if a coil shock would bridge the slight gap between the Spot and Nomad in the descending department. I guess if I were to switch to a coil shock I would probably consider a 160 mm fork as well which would further the Spot's descending abilities.

    Just curious if anyone could offer some insight.

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