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  1. #1
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    v.4.7 2010 RFX, details, ramblings and rants...

    Dusty always gets his way.


    http://chrisking.com/headsets/hds_inset

    "most likely not a solution to a backward looking problem so much as it is a compatibility option for contemporary bicycles."
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    142 x 12

    I wonder if they are working on it? I talked to someone there about their current 135 hubs being convertable to 12 diameter with longer 'locknuts' they said they were pretty sure? Hope so, as most of the hub/wheel industry insiders are looking that way.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes
    I wonder if they are working on it? I talked to someone there about their current 135 hubs being convertable to 12 diameter with longer 'locknuts' they said they were pretty sure? Hope so, as most of the hub/wheel industry insiders are looking that way.
    What's wrong with 150x12?
    "The best you've ridden is the best you know" - Paul Thede, Race Tech

  4. #4
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    Great idea.

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    So, its back. They had that before. They called it PERDIDO.

  6. #6
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    Bb

    With 142mm hub spacing the rear end is still really a 135mm, so the BB stays 73. Not so with 150mm rear spacing. Remeber, this bike is going to re-write the rules on what is possible for the worlds biggest XC bike, with a back bone to handle anything that any RFX has ever taken, and then some extra to keep El Ching and Aqua from bothering me. Based on the pedalling performance of the proto DHR and the new 5 Spot, this bike will be bewilderingly fast up hill. To say that 170mm of rear travel will be the king of the rough XC/AM is of course an understatement. Hey! how many want the Fox RC4 as an option? Standard? DW and I discussed at length the need for the frame to be able to run a coil or air with great performance, so that is how he approached the linkage kinematics.

    CC is correct, full housing again. I just got back from a ride on my 5 Spot that was assembled the last week of August, it shifted flawlessly. It has been mudded a quite a few times starting in enchilada sauce from Burro pass, during our rainstorms last couple months and then 2 hard days in Santa Cruz mud and water and hosewashing last week riding with the Fox types. I wash my bike more than I should and I have never pulled a wire.

    DT

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes
    With 142mm hub spacing the rear end is still really a 135mm....
    DT
    How does that work!?
    Is it just a spaced-out 135? where does the extra 7mm go and what is the advantage? Is this part of the syntace standard?

    Full length = the only way to go!
    and extra stops for adjustable posts of course....

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes
    Remeber, this bike is going to re-write the rules on what is possible for the worlds biggest XC bike, with a back bone to handle anything that any RFX has ever taken, and then some extra to keep El Ching and Aqua from bothering me. Based on the pedalling performance of the proto DHR and the new 5 Spot, this bike will be bewilderingly fast up hill. To say that 170mm of rear travel will be the king of the rough XC/AM is of course an understatement.DT
    This is a bada$$ statement. You know this is going to be awesome. Anybody thinking about wanting to drop some coin on a bike now should do the wise thing which is to hold off, and wait for this bike!

  9. #9
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    So, that's what that was!!

    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes
    With 142mm hub spacing the rear end is still really a 135mm, so the BB stays 73. Not so with 150mm rear spacing. Remeber, this bike is going to re-write the rules on what is possible for the worlds biggest XC bike, with a back bone to handle anything that any RFX has ever taken, and then some extra to keep El Ching and Aqua from bothering me. Based on the pedalling performance of the proto DHR and the new 5 Spot, this bike will be bewilderingly fast up hill. To say that 170mm of rear travel will be the king of the rough XC/AM is of course an understatement. Hey! how many want the Fox RC4 as an option? Standard? DW and I discussed at length the need for the frame to be able to run a coil or air with great performance, so that is how he approached the linkage kinematics.

    CC is correct, full housing again. I just got back from a ride on my 5 Spot that was assembled the last week of August, it shifted flawlessly. It has been mudded a quite a few times starting in enchilada sauce from Burro pass, during our rainstorms last couple months and then 2 hard days in Santa Cruz mud and water and hosewashing last week riding with the Fox types. I wash my bike more than I should and I have never pulled a wire.

    DT

    Drivetrain shot after the climb up Hazzard after burro descent.
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  10. #10
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    DW RFX. Why buy a 5.Spot?

    So things are coming together on the DW RFX, based on what DT says:

    Quote Originally Posted by Turnerbikes
    With 142mm hub spacing the rear end is still really a 135mm, so the BB stays 73. Not so with 150mm rear spacing. Remeber, this bike is going to re-write the rules on what is possible for the worlds biggest XC bike, with a back bone to handle anything that any RFX has ever taken, and then some extra to keep El Ching and Aqua from bothering me. Based on the pedalling performance of the proto DHR and the new 5 Spot, this bike will be bewilderingly fast up hill. To say that 170mm of rear travel will be the king of the rough XC/AM is of course an understatement. Hey! how many want the Fox RC4 as an option? Standard? DW and I discussed at length the need for the frame to be able to run a coil or air with great performance, so that is how he approached the linkage kinematics.
    With many (most) people putting a 36/Lyric on the front of their Spots, and the fact that one is capable of running a Zerostack headset on the RFX, one is able to get very close to the same head and seat angles on both bikes using the same fork.

    If the RFX pedals as well as DT claims, the weight difference is < 1/2 pound, and the geometry can be set up quite similarly, is the RFX going to kill the sales of the Spot?

  11. #11
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    nope.

    geometry and therefore the feeling of the bikes will be different. you will also feel the difference in rear wheeltravel.

    2 different bikes.
    Sokrates is dead, Galilei is dead, Newton is dead, Einstein is dead, Pantani is dead and i am feeling sick too.

  12. #12
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    Fox RC4

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM
    How does that work!?
    Is it just a spaced-out 135? where does the extra 7mm go and what is the advantage? Is this part of the syntace standard?
    Just found the answer on Syntaces website:
    The required hubs:
    Standard 135 mm hubs are used and have the standard end caps replaced with wider ones (3.5 mm per side), actual resulting width is 142 mm.

    more info

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes
    Remeber, this bike is going to re-write the rules on what is possible for the worlds biggest XC bike, with a back bone to handle anything that any RFX has ever taken, and then some extra to keep El Ching and Aqua from bothering me.
    Huh, what? Hello? This conversation just got very interesting!
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes
    With 142mm hub spacing the rear end is still really a 135mm, so the BB stays 73. Not so with 150mm rear spacing. Remeber, this bike is going to re-write the rules on what is possible for the worlds biggest XC bike, with a back bone to handle anything that any RFX has ever taken, and then some extra to keep El Ching and Aqua from bothering me. Based on the pedalling performance of the proto DHR and the new 5 Spot, this bike will be bewilderingly fast up hill. To say that 170mm of rear travel will be the king of the rough XC/AM is of course an understatement. Hey! how many want the Fox RC4 as an option? Standard? DW and I discussed at length the need for the frame to be able to run a coil or air with great performance, so that is how he approached the linkage kinematics.
    DT
    This is sounding more and more like the replacement for my beloved Supermoto.

    Bravo, Dave...Bravo!
    Extreme stationary biker.

  16. #16
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    Creaking stopped would be good

    Yes it would

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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes
    Remeber, this bike is going to re-write the rules on what is possible for the worlds biggest XC bike, with a back bone to handle anything that any RFX has ever taken, and then some extra to keep El Ching and Aqua from bothering me.
    So it will have a full on 1.5 head tube then? Sounds like it will be practically begging for a 180mm fork, and I haven't heard anything about those being made available in 1.5-1.125 tapered. Tapered would be a better fit for a Spot IMO.

    And yes, coil for sure. Standard or option doesn't matter to me, as an Avy would go on straight away regardless.
    ''It seems like a bit of a trend, everyone trying to make things longer over the last couple of years" Sam Hill

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    bike parts

    Thanks for the linky to Syntace, FM. All I am interested in is the red highlighted slots on the inside face of the 'dropouts'. It will have all my own choice derailer hanger and axle.
    With a change of hub end caps most hubs will convert.

    The plan is for the new RFX to have a tapered head tube. All single crown forks in 2010 will be available in tapered steerer. I really don't like the limited choice of stems in 1.5". Like 83mm BB shells which are limited to heavy crank sets, the 1.5 head tube only allows DH weight stems. For the great majority of riders that will build this to the 'lighter' side, 1.5" is a dead end. All single crown forks in 2010 will be available in tapered steerer. This is not a Highline, it is not aimed squarely at FR, so why limit the stems which are so important to rider fit in a aerobic or semi aerobic bike use. On a hucking bike it don't matter, short and heavy is perfect. The super sized bearings on the top are not neccessary either, it is the lower race that takes the beating. Look at all the 'lightweight' Highline builds! It has become a joke, the newest Turner XC bike, the Highline. Obviously it was overbuild for most that bought it, so why replicate it?


    DT

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes
    Thanks for the linky to Syntace, FM. All I am interested in is the red highlighted slots on the inside face of the 'dropouts'. It will have all my own choice derailer hanger and axle.
    With a change of hub end caps most hubs will convert.

    The plan is for the new RFX to have a tapered head tube. All single crown forks in 2010 will be available in tapered steerer. I really don't like the limited choice of stems in 1.5". Like 83mm BB shells which are limited to heavy crank sets, the 1.5 head tube only allows DH weight stems. For the great majority of riders that will build this to the 'lighter' side, 1.5" is a dead end. All single crown forks in 2010 will be available in tapered steerer. This is not a Highline, it is not aimed squarely at FR, so why limit the stems which are so important to rider fit in a aerobic or semi aerobic bike use. On a hucking bike it don't matter, short and heavy is perfect. The super sized bearings on the top are not neccessary either, it is the lower race that takes the beating. Look at all the 'lightweight' Highline builds! It has become a joke, the newest Turner XC bike, the Highline. Obviously it was overbuild for most that bought it, so why replicate it?


    DT
    DT,we need some pics,what stage are you at with the frame?

  20. #20
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    thats too bad. as much as i like what i felt on the dwl spot and as excited as i am with the x-13 axle standard, i dont need or want full length housing on the downtube or under the toptube nor f der loop issues on anything smaller than a lrg such as my med. i tried it and didnt like it. too many zip ties, shifting too mushy, just a bit too huffy for me, thanx. im not sold on tapered headtubes either but i can get over that.

    i know this isnt the popular train of thought as of late and im gonna get trashed for it. thats fine. even though im bothered with these changes, im cool with how i feel. glad my '07 is so much fun and should last a very long time indeed. that and theres other good bikes on the market that dont force me into a feature maybe only 10% of the worlds consumers acctually need and the rest embrace due to the cool factor. till someone makes a true compressionless der housing and the routing gets cleaned up, im makin my stand.
    Last edited by cactuscorn; 03-01-2009 at 08:40 PM.
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  21. #21
    FM
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    Quote Originally Posted by cactuscorn
    thats too bad.
    i know this isnt the popular train of thought as of late and im gonna get trashed for it.
    I fought it for years too.
    For those of us that live in wetter climates, (and that's a lot more than %10 of us!) full length housing is pretty much mandatory. The full-length cables & housing on my RFX are nearly a year old and they still shift acceptably. Interrupted cables lose their crispness after one wet ride here, and we ride wet mulch 9 months out of the year. Drilling out the cable stops on my new '07 RFX was not something I relished, but certainly not something I regret.

    Also consider that full length housing stops offer the possibility of swapping drivetrains & adjustable seatposts between bikes without re-cabling.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by cactuscorn
    im makin my stand.
    And yes, prioritizing cable routing/execution over suspension design & performance is a truly noble stand!

    Think this thru, your ENTIRE IDENTITY is at stake here.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes
    I wonder if they are working on it? I talked to someone there about their current 135 hubs being convertable to 12 diameter with longer 'locknuts' they said they were pretty sure? Hope so, as most of the hub/wheel industry insiders are looking that way.
    Are you truly curious about King 12X135, or were you making note of that exact annoucement on the front page of their website? It's happening.

  24. #24
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    if i lived in the pnw id wear a party hat and toot a cute little horn all the way to town singin "celebration" the whole damn time. comparitively speakin, those types of climates are not the norm for riders. true, i pulled 10% outta my ass but i cant believe its much more than that if any more at all.

    but i get yer points. mine was mostly options and i was hopein year 2 would offer those who dont need or want flh just 1. as for the less than stellar routing, were all stuck with that again. downtube routing, run top or bottom, on a multi front gear bike has never worked well overall for a variety of reasons. before i start to sound like a whiner, im gonna go relax with a paper sack and a can of wd40.
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  25. #25
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    i coulda been more clear. lookin back at that post i didnt spell out my issue with the performance of full length housing, i just wrote "mushy". my mistake. most here know what i was drivin at including dt. no one should be surprised.

    notice how i didnt bring up hl vs. tnt or make that example of takin a performance stand.
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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes
    With 142mm hub spacing the rear end is still really a 135mm, so the BB stays 73. Not so with 150mm rear spacing. Remeber, this bike is going to re-write the rules on what is possible for the worlds biggest XC bike, with a back bone to handle anything that any RFX has ever taken, and then some extra to keep El Ching and Aqua from bothering me. Based on the pedalling performance of the proto DHR and the new 5 Spot, this bike will be bewilderingly fast up hill. To say that 170mm of rear travel will be the king of the rough XC/AM is of course an understatement. Hey! how many want the Fox RC4 as an option? Standard? DW and I discussed at length the need for the frame to be able to run a coil or air with great performance, so that is how he approached the linkage kinematics.

    CC is correct, full housing again. I just got back from a ride on my 5 Spot that was assembled the last week of August, it shifted flawlessly. It has been mudded a quite a few times starting in enchilada sauce from Burro pass, during our rainstorms last couple months and then 2 hard days in Santa Cruz mud and water and hosewashing last week riding with the Fox types. I wash my bike more than I should and I have never pulled a wire.

    DT
    What version are we calling this? v4.7? So with the travel bumped back up to 170mm and the ability to handle retarded riding styles, can I assume the tubing is different from the 5spot? How soon til we can see a cartoon version on the website?

    Any chance you'll ever finalize this frame so we can see a version in the new millenium?

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty Bottoms
    Think this thru, your ENTIRE IDENTITY is at stake here.


    Quote Originally Posted by cactuscorn
    comparitively speakin, those types of climates are not the norm for riders. true, i pulled 10% outta my ass but i cant believe its much more than that if any more at all.
    Wow. The norm for what riders?
    I think you are maybe underestimating the scope of the PNW riding scene by a factor of like 5 bajillion to the 8th power. Maybe you should do some research on my neighbors.
    Local bros & groms
    A guy named Luke...was on a DHR for a bit
    A photographer who rides.. and does both very well!
    The LBS
    I could go on but you get the idea....

    The PNW is a huge potential market for Turner.... especially with the mud-proof bushings. Mud-proof cable routing to match will certainly help Turner sell more bikes up here.

  28. #28
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    Screw full length cable housing...I live in the PNW too, and when it gets wet around here, I just go skiing.

    Other than that, the new RFX sounds perfect.
    I only ride bikes to fill the time when I'm not skiing.

  29. #29
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    nice spin! as long as were here to twist each others words, how about every bike company designs around you, yer pals and yer weather? think of how the industry will explode! i mean, screw the rest of the worlds riders and their climates. who need those losers anyway when we have washington state and british columbia. thats gotta be over 50% of the planets core riding population and bike related wealth.

    i knew this wasnt gonna go well but damn.
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  30. #30
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    I don't own a Turner but on my Old GT I-Drive with exposed cable I used to have to pull the cable and clean/lube all the time! Everytime I'd do it I'd be rewarded with such easy shifter action. It would go sour in a few weeks tho and again when I'd service the cable it would feel so much better again. I found myself going crazy all the time over cleaning the stupid rear cable.

    I went full cable as soon as I heard of the idea and have never looked back since. Then I got a stumpjumper which is designed for full length and have been happy with this as well.

    I felt absolutely no difference in shifter feel, I DID notice that the nice smooth, easy shifter feel did not suffer after a few weeks. And I was using the good cable with the slip on plastic fittings that were supposed to keep gunk out which of course didn't! I don't have the kinda cash a Turner demands but if I did I'd be happy to hear that I wouldn't have to drill out the stays.

    ...........Now, lets hear a lil more about that new RFX

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by cactuscorn
    how about every bike company designs around you, yer pals and yer weather? think of how the industry will explode! i mean, screw the rest of the worlds riders and their climates. who need those losers anyway when we have washington state and british columbia..
    well, now that you mention it, it does seem to be working for Transition bikes, Knolly, Kona, Rocky Mountain, Chromag, Cove, Diamond Back, Evil, Race Face, Blackspire, and so on....

  32. #32
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    i might feel the same way if my exposed cables were on top of the downtube like the i drive and be damn happy to have a fsr bike instead of it. i had to do the same maint on my bikes when i lived in the desert. part of ridin in the dust and not a tough or long task. takes, what... 30 seconds tops? im talkin about movin things back to the top of the top tube here for those who arent followin quite yet. now if ya have a good link to yerself, please pass it on to fm for his collection.
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    King stuff

    Dusty, the King web site talks about 135 x 12, not 142 x 12. The extra length on each end slips into a keyway in the rear dropout same as the front forks have a place for the front wheel to rest before an axle is installed. The tubing will be RFX class. A cartoon version directly out of SolidWorks will be shown as soon as it is ready, I think this is at least version 4.7! This one is going to have a 11.8" BB height, I thought I needed to share this as so many are concerned. Now that height is with 2.5 Nevegals and a 550mm "fork". That BB height is at 1/3rd sag front and rear, individual results may vary.

    I am SURE that half my market does not live in the PNW. But I DO know that most of my market is NOT in the SW deserts, therefore I design for the swamps someone is riding somewhere.

    DT

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    funny... i see the 160mm offerings from kona and rm without full runs, not even aware of a 160mm cromag fs bike to compare with the rfx, coves bike is full but on top of the top tube, evils revolt is a dh rig and ill be damned... race face and blackspire are makin bike frames now? all this spinnin of yers is makin me dizzy!
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  35. #35
    FM
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    Quote Originally Posted by cactuscorn
    true, i pulled 10% outta my ass
    Is that more than 6" in CC units?

  36. #36
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    fair enough. in the end its yer call and thats cool. just statin my opinion which is often on the unpopular side lately. maybe im old and trapped in my ways but why change what worked so well in '08 by cleanin the routing back up as more than a few have mentioned and addin inserts like the stinger so everyone has a shot at fillin territorial needs? seriously, help me understand.
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  37. #37
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    thats funny stuff! im surprised you could concentrate long enough to be so clever with dt's balls on yer chin and all.
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  38. #38
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    Over the top.

    Quote Originally Posted by cactuscorn
    thats funny stuff! im surprised you could concentrate long enough to be so clever with dt's balls on yer chin and all.
    Well, that comment certainly left a bad taste in my mouth

    Don't take it so personal CC. Times have changed and standards are changing with them. Full length cable housing is the way forward. Fighting it is like fighting for QR's or lycra shorts... all things passed on from road bikes, but just don't make much sense on a long-travel free-ride bike that gets ridden hard & put away wet. The extra %2 crispness in shifting just aint worth the added maintenance and headaches. I know you're speaking from the LBS perspective, but once that bike goes out the door, nobody wants to lube the cables every frickin' ride.

    Same deal with the tapered head tube and syntace rear end. If we can use our current forks and wheels, and these things will make a stiffer, quieter bike, why fight it?

  39. #39
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    debating over cable is just retarded imo. full length just makes sense, i'm on board.

    this new rfx just seems to get better and better.

    the cartoon version is going to rawk.
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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes
    Hey! how many want the Fox RC4 as an option? Standard? DW and I discussed at length the need for the frame to be able to run a coil or air with great performance, so that is how he approached the linkage kinematics.
    DT
    I'd prefer AIR on the RFX with a COIL option, because I'll be more on the XC side of the XC/AM. Might buy a coil for trips to certain places, but would prefer the weight savings for the day-in day-out trail riding. My XCE had a coil (VanRC) and the ride was great, but no peddal platform. My SPOT has an AIR - RP23 is pretty good!

    P.S. Sorry CC - I'd prefer uninterrupted housing too and on the opposite end of the continent from PNW. Had a housing problem across the top tube because the LBS didn't cut it right. That resulted in a single speed to complete a muddy Hermosa Creek day.
    Last edited by Cucucachu; 03-02-2009 at 02:39 PM.

  41. #41
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    Personally I think full length shines in dry climates as much as in wet. The whole "it has to be the PNW to reap full length benefits" is a bunch of crap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes
    Hey! how many want the Fox RC4 as an option? Standard?
    Option. How about a shock-loss option, too? Whatever you decide, put me down for a size large in raw...

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by cactuscorn
    thats funny stuff! im surprised you could concentrate long enough to be so clever with dt's balls on yer chin and all.
    Whoa.

  44. #44
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    Shifting is for pu$$ies.
    Extreme stationary biker.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roy
    Personally I think full length shines in dry climates as much as in wet. The whole "it has to be the PNW to reap full length benefits" is a bunch of crap.
    I'm pretty sure that anyone that rides their bike more than once a week gets the long-term benefit of full run housing, so I can see why a lot of folks deem it unnecessary.

    EB
    Last edited by ebxtreme; 03-02-2009 at 09:40 AM.

  46. #46
    Never enough time to ride
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    Quote Originally Posted by cactuscorn
    thats funny stuff! im surprised you could concentrate long enough to be so clever with dt's balls on yer chin and all.
    Whoa indeed! Some one take a crap in yer Wheaties there CC? I've been reading what's goin on round here and haven't been compelled to get in the middle of the debates until now. Everyone's throwing their opinions around and such, and I know it sucks being in the minority in that respect, but that was a little uncalled for dude.

    The evolution of the AM bike is advancing petty quickly, and a lot of the old xc/road hold out stuff isn't cutting it. And the compromises from the past are starting to come back and bite us. With bikes like this being ridden in more and more severe conditions the wider rear end with thru axles, beefier front triangles, and yes even full length housing are going to replace QR's, super light tubesets, and cable stops. Do I like all of it, maybe not, but I'll suffer through a tiny bit of loss in shifter feel if it means my shifting won't go to crap in the middle of a muddy ride simply because I got some water in my housing.

    Am I saying you have to love and embrace it, no, am I sayin am I sayin your your opinion don't mean nothing, most certainly not. But I am sayin lay off a bit, and that doesn't just apply to CC. Lets get back to a reasonable discussion that doesn't involve DT's balls or who's chin they may or may not be slapping!!

    happy trails...

    squish
    Get out and ride!

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by cactuscorn
    thats funny stuff! im surprised you could concentrate long enough to be so clever with dt's balls on yer chin and all.
    pot...kettle...black

  48. #48
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    Back to the topic of the headset, I have a couple questions: does this mean that they're making headsets with the proper skirt size now, rather then a size that doesn't work with the rest of the industry? And will they be coming with compression rings so the headset doesn't auto loosen?

    Anyway, looks like there are some pretty cool long travel trail bikes out there these days - the new nomad, the firebird, the uzzi, the canfield one, the yeti 7....I'm sure there are more, but long travel bikes are looking up!

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes
    With 142mm hub spacing the rear end is still really a 135mm, so the BB stays 73. Not so with 150mm rear spacing. Remeber, this bike is going to re-write the rules on what is possible for the worlds biggest XC bike, with a back bone to handle anything that any RFX has ever taken, and then some extra to keep El Ching and Aqua from bothering me. Based on the pedalling performance of the proto DHR and the new 5 Spot, this bike will be bewilderingly fast up hill. To say that 170mm of rear travel will be the king of the rough XC/AM is of course an understatement. Hey! how many want the Fox RC4 as an option? Standard? DW and I discussed at length the need for the frame to be able to run a coil or air with great performance, so that is how he approached the linkage kinematics.

    CC is correct, full housing again. I just got back from a ride on my 5 Spot that was assembled the last week of August, it shifted flawlessly. It has been mudded a quite a few times starting in enchilada sauce from Burro pass, during our rainstorms last couple months and then 2 hard days in Santa Cruz mud and water and hosewashing last week riding with the Fox types. I wash my bike more than I should and I have never pulled a wire.

    DT

    I see. Thanks for the info. The 2010 rfx keeps getting better and it sounds like it'll be the perfect replacement for my 6Point. Good thing I have about a year to save up for it.

    Oh, I'm all for full length housing too.
    "The best you've ridden is the best you know" - Paul Thede, Race Tech

  50. #50
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    I say Turner should be a pioneer and put the 1.5 opening on the top of the headtube and 1.125 on the bottom, judging from the way this thread went down.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by SHAHEEB
    debating over cable is just retarded imo. full length just makes sense, i'm on board.
    +1

    I actually had to go back and re-read CC's first post to make sure I didn't miss the real issue.

  52. #52
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    I like the RC4 as an option, but not the standard for the new RFX. But, then I ride my RFX for agressive AM, not freeride. Other potential options, CCDB, PUSH'd?

    Full length housing a must, whatever climate your in, you wash your bike down after riding. Or, at least I do. 11.8 bb height? How would that compare with my 08 RFX w/ 1/3 sag?
    fill what's empty, empty what's full, and scratch where it itches.

  53. #53
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    Tapered HTs

    Full length housing

    XC labels

    150mm

    1.5 there's lots of stems out there, this is old thinkin gI been buying 1.5 stems since 96, Ive still got 2 Kore Elite Stems for my Headshocks when I was running my cracnfails



    I'd rather see 1/18th std than see Specialsed GHEY std introduced is this another FOX induced marriage?

    Lots of synergy's going on here in the industry I'm noticing, its not good for the consumer!
    I just hope all sizes from whoever make sure all forks with this new std don't hit the down tube like seems to be happening on a more frequent basis, I won't name drop!

    I won't be upgrading I will be staying with old trusty for even longer this convinces me even more, so as time continues I will replace components until it breaks!

    If I ever ride again it will feel new to me anyway

    I am disappointed where alot of this is going, most imo is just a waste of time for no gain, more increase PIA for us consumers hassle and no gained benefits!

    2 proven stds so lets go and introduce ones in between YUP typical mTB from Amercia nice one!

    No wonder we have a global recession!

    edit, mine is also Hammerschidt compatibile! ISCG, pedalbility, etc!
    I haven't read anywhere anyone saying this, to me this is one of the big area's in this market that seems to be neglected and one that will cost sales, tapered HTs aren't going to get big sales!, forcing people t buy new forks by changing stds only disconnects the markets hasn't mtb learnt anything from Shimano in 03, swoopy in 08, Marz in 08 the wheel keeps turning!

    As said the focus on silly things disappoints me
    Last edited by trailadvent; 03-02-2009 at 12:30 PM.
    Just riding a muddy trail. . ..

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  54. #54
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    Since the tapered head tube is kind of a compromise, maybe the same could be done for the housing. Instead of having full housing there could be like 75% housing and a short run of exposed cable. Best way to make sure nobody is happy.
    ''It seems like a bit of a trend, everyone trying to make things longer over the last couple of years" Sam Hill

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by miles e
    Since the tapered head tube is kind of a compromise, maybe the same could be done for the housing. Instead of having full housing there could be like 75% housing and a short run of exposed cable. Best way to make sure nobody is happy.
    LOL! Are you trying to make CC happy?

    CC, that was just too harsh man. Definitely messes up this thread which happens to contain good info from DT.
    "The best you've ridden is the best you know" - Paul Thede, Race Tech

  56. #56
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    Hey TA,

    I'm with ya, things are changing way to fast and too many new standards are being introduced to fix problems that may or may not exist. While some are good, others not so much as we've learned.

    I think most of this craziness is arising because of bikes like the RFX, bikes that more or less straddle the line between pure trail and freeride. They more or less need to be built tougher than the average bike to take the added abuse, but not as burly as a say a Highline. They need to be responsibly light but not so light that they break. So everyone is trying to get there, but they're trying to work around it and in the process making more headaches for us.

    Some of it's not going any where, lets face it when Trek and Specialized both start building frames around the tapered headtube it's pretty much not going any where.

    One thing we most certainly have too many of is rear hub options. Lets get it narrowed down to a couple and call it good shall we. I do have to give the hub manufacturers some credit though, they've been really good about keeping up with the new standards and have made it pretty pain free by simply making adapters in most instances.

    A lot of it looks really promising, I like most of the features of the 142 x12. Time and real world use are the only way that the crap will be weeded out from the good.

    Those are my thoughts now any way.

    And back on topic, it almost looks like there's something a little bit different going on with the upper race for that new Inset, I'd like to see on torn apart.

    happy trails...

    squish
    Get out and ride!

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serotta b1kr
    11.8 bb height? How would that compare with my 08 RFX w/ 1/3 sag?
    That puts the BB at 14.03" (with 2.5 tires and 550mm fork) according to my measly calculations.

    How I came up with that:
    170mm of frame travel
    8.5" X 2.5" shock
    2.68 : 1 leverage ratio.

    1/3 sag = 0.833"
    0.833 X 2.68 = 2.24

    11.8 + 2.2 = 14" BB

    This should be .5 to .75 inches lower than older model, depending on tire and fork choice.

    DHX4, Is it even out yet? I wouldn't want a brand new shock on my bike personally. The DHXs have too many adjustment for my taste as well.

    This bike should be interesting. 7 lbs, 170 mm travel, classic RFX tubing, solid rear axle. XC/FR. Sounds like the future is here. I can't wait to see this one. I better start saving.

    TG

    P.S. - CC, not cool dude. Sounds like you are having a rough one.
    Last edited by G-AIR; 03-02-2009 at 03:54 PM.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by ebxtreme
    I'm pretty sure that anyone that rides their bike more than once a week gets the long-term benefit of full run housing, so I can see why a lot of folks deem it unnecessary.

    EB
    Yup


  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes
    I wash my bike more than I should...

    DT
    No doubt...one has to see you in action to truly appreciate it!


  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by geolover
    Shifting is for pu$$ies.

    Except for the hammerschmidt friendly DW link that's going on the RFX.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by All Mountain
    Except for the hammerschmidt friendly DW link that's going on the RFX.
    The Hammerschmidt can suck my ass.
    Extreme stationary biker.

  62. #62
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    I've noticed no difference in shifting going from the 08 Sultan to the 09. Living in a semi-dry area (except lately) I normally only changed cables once or twice per year anyway.
    Nothing to see here.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by jncarpenter
    No doubt...one has to see you in action to truly appreciate it!

    for sure. I think we washed 3 bikes while DT did 1.
    Nothing to see here.

  64. #64
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    Back to the drawing board DT! Please have DW come up with a suspension design that plays well with the Hammershite!
    Team Sanchez; "Always hittin the upper lip"

  65. #65
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    Cacti...you've gone way over the line/top etc. here. You use to be somewhat funny and added a lot to the board (more than I ever could). But lately you come off as an old crotchety codger that throws temper tantrums like my 3 year old. Please chill a bit before you become a total joke on here...my god you are discussing cable housing after all!!

  66. #66
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    i think ya all missed the joke. drag. fm. please continue makin jokes about 6" in peoples ass's as thats more acceptable than balls on yer chin. my bad.

    but yer right guys. maybe its time for a break when ya cant raise a opinion without feelin like yer gettin hit from all sides for it.
    No, I'm NOT back!

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by William42
    Back to the topic of the headset, I have a couple questions: does this mean that they're making headsets with the proper skirt size now, rather then a size that doesn't work with the rest of the industry?
    ding ding ding. Check the spec's on the King website. 1.5" standard headset is 49.6mm head tube ID. Of their 2 different diameters, 55.95 is the spec for 1.5 lower. Weird. Talk about a smaller niche than the rest of the 1.5 world...

    I just learned about this hs from a Chris King salesrep today - it's good news for some Intense peeps because of Intenses use of 1.5. The CK guy seemed to think it would be a great addion for 1.5 folks so I put a linky up on the Intense forum. A poster pointed this small calculation out to me. I'll have to do some more diggin to find out what all that translates into.

    Any feedback on this, DT?

    CC - I run full cable housing now and it's good. Think of it as a poor mans Gore Cable housing
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  68. #68
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    Oooowww My Head!

    I can't believe you pple are tossing poo about cable housing. I've got one of each and can't say either was a big deal different.


    Quote Originally Posted by miles e
    And yes, coil for sure. Standard or option doesn't matter to me, as an Avy would go on straight away regardless.
    This is about the only declaration I can agree with wholeheartedly!

    DT please make sure it can take a heavyweight beating like the 6Pack could and feel at least as confident and stable. And if it pedals better and is lighter then that's icing on the cake IMO. The 6P is/was my favorite do-all bike. Let the Highline be the planet bomb.
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  69. #69
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    this and that

    Serotta, the 08 RFX with 160mm travel fork and 2.5 tires front and rear had a 12,5" BB with 1/3rd sag in the rear and 25-30% front. The new one will be considerably lower, plenty low for someone that wants to ride the thing up hill in the rough. which is what most will do with this bike, IMHO of course.

    Ching, As your buddie Moose has proven, most riders will not know the shortcoming of HS anyway. DWs calculates everthing to the zillionth decimal,so I am confident that his parameters are much tighter than most riders discernment, but in the dirt many will be very happy either way. Just build it and ride it. Do you have one in the works for the Highline?

    G-air, yep. The spec of the BB will be 14.1 with 550mm fork and 2.5 nevegals, with an on trail BB hovering around 11.8" I mentioned that the 'goal' was 7 pounds! When I publish the final weight, we will know for sure. There will be no Enron math with almost 4000 grams = 6.8 lbs! Of course it will be weighed with a RP23 as that is a great working simple to use shock. The RC 4 is amazing every DHR test rider. All the riders are having to ride the bike with 5.0 then the RC4, and in the case of those with other brands on their old DHRs they install them for baseline feel. The RC4 is impressing all those who wrote off the 5.0

    142 will kill 135. The GREAT thing is that all the 'good' hub makers have the ability to make upgrade kits and convert your current stuff to the new spec for a nominal cost. We, the industry has had the same kind of set up on Lyrics and 36s and Totems for years, put wheel in fork and it sits there ready for the axle. Why not the rear? Adding stiffness will come from getting rid of the spindly wire qr. Even the bolted rear hubs with a QR drop out will not offer the total grip of a couple 12mm holes thru plate.

    TA, the % of 1.5s to 1.125s is miniscule, 1.5 is the non standard in stems. Most of them are probably 60mm long or less. Ask the stem makers if you don't agree. DH bikes dont even use 1.5, and they are even fadiing towards direct mounts, another standard!! Damn yanks. There are so few used 1.5 forks sitting in riders garages that for me to worry about them being swapped to a new bike is absurd. But for all the 1.125" 160mm + forks that have been sold is immense in comparison, and they will ALL fit on the new bike just fine. So will their stem, and their upper head set for that matter! Talk about compatability, I may not be designing to fit the stuff sitting in your garage, but I do think about all the stuff that has been sold in many riders garages.

    DT

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes
    Serotta, the 08 RFX with 160mm travel fork and 2.5 tires front and rear had a 12,5" BB with 1/3rd sag in the rear and 25-30% front. The new one will be considerably lower, plenty low for someone that wants to ride the thing up hill in the rough. which is what most will do with this bike, IMHO of course.

    Ching, As your buddie Moose has proven, most riders will not know the shortcoming of HS anyway. DWs calculates everthing to the zillionth decimal,so I am confident that his parameters are much tighter than most riders discernment, but in the dirt many will be very happy either way. Just build it and ride it. Do you have one in the works for the Highline?

    G-air, yep. The spec of the BB will be 14.1 with 550mm fork and 2.5 nevegals, with an on trail BB hovering around 11.8" I mentioned that the 'goal' was 7 pounds! When I publish the final weight, we will know for sure. There will be no Enron math with almost 4000 grams = 6.8 lbs! Of course it will be weighed with a RP23 as that is a great working simple to use shock. The RC 4 is amazing every DHR test rider. All the riders are having to ride the bike with 5.0 then the RC4, and in the case of those with other brands on their old DHRs they install them for baseline feel. The RC4 is impressing all those who wrote off the 5.0

    142 will kill 135. The GREAT thing is that all the 'good' hub makers have the ability to make upgrade kits and convert your current stuff to the new spec for a nominal cost. We, the industry has had the same kind of set up on Lyrics and 36s and Totems for years, put wheel in fork and it sits there ready for the axle. Why not the rear? Adding stiffness will come from getting rid of the spindly wire qr. Even the bolted rear hubs with a QR drop out will not offer the total grip of a couple 12mm holes thru plate.

    TA, the % of 1.5s to 1.125s is miniscule, 1.5 is the non standard in stems. Most of them are probably 60mm long or less. Ask the stem makers if you don't agree. DH bikes dont even use 1.5, and they are even fadiing towards direct mounts, another standard!! Damn yanks. There are so few used 1.5 forks sitting in riders garages that for me to worry about them being swapped to a new bike is absurd. But for all the 1.125" 160mm + forks that have been sold is immense in comparison, and they will ALL fit on the new bike just fine. So will their stem, and their upper head set for that matter! Talk about compatability, I may not be designing to fit the stuff sitting in your garage, but I do think about all the stuff that has been sold in many riders garages.

    DT
    That all sounds great and by the time the new RFX rolls out it should be time for me to replace the '06 RFX.

    But isn't it 6:30am in California? Shouldn't you be sleeping?

  71. #71
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    Who can sleep with all this talk of new RFXs?
    After spending time on a couple of the new DW bikes I am expecting the RFX to take AM frames to the next level. With the quality of travel that these new bikes posses, I anticipate the new RFX riding more like the Highline on the descents while climbing better than any previous version of RFX/6Pack.
    This is a bold statement, and just one rider's opinion, but I feel confident that time will back me up.
    The new RC4 is very impressive, best coil I have ridden to date. I would want one on my RFX, but maybe not everyone else?
    The RP23 feels so good on my Spot that I assume it will be great on the new RFX as well, and work better for the weight weenie build so many pursue.
    The X12 sounds like a great idea, and if you can buy a retro-fit kit for your high end wheelset (at a reasonable cost) it erases the only negative I see about it.
    I like full cable housing, I have been drilling out stops for years. (sorry CC, no offense)
    Still on the fence about the tapered headtube.
    It's true that the majority of the abuse is seen by the lower cup & bearing so it makes sense in this regard. I also like that you can run a flush mount lower cup w/ 1 1/8 fork and further adjust ride height.
    The proposed BB height sounds agreeable to me, I always wanted my 07 RFX lower at the BB and have loved the lower ride height of the DW Spot.
    The new bikes are rockin, progress is good.
    The waiting is the hard part.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1soulrider
    Who can sleep with all this talk of new RFXs?
    ...
    The waiting is the hard part.

  73. #73
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    I think the industry is going to 1.5 lower and 1.125 upper HT. You're starting to see it everywhere. Get used to it. Also, you don't need a new fork, unless you have a full 1.5 ST.

    Basically, the way it works, is that you run a regular 1.125 steer tube fork, unless you decide you want a tapered specific fork. Assuming you don't though, there are reducers that can be had for 15-20 bucks, and I assume turner will have an option to sell these with the bikes. Its not a huge fiasco. You can't use a full 1.5 steer tube, but who cares, there are like 5 of those in the world anyway. The tapered see's the benefits, but is a way lighter system. Giant has been doing it for years, plus trek, specialized, turner, and now evil (and I'm confidant there are others that I'm not thinking of at the moment!) - I'm pretty sure its an industry standard here to stay. Don't flip out so much.

    This thread got pretty stupid pretty fast. Everybody step back and relax.

    As a non-turner rider, I'd say as far as a complete lineup, the new Tuner-DW lineup is the best full bike lineup in existence. Incredible quality + incredible suspension + incredible service. The DHR will probably be the sickest DH bike in existence with the possible exception of the Jedi (and from the sounds of it the new Evil Revolt), the RFX will truly do everything (and better then everything else!), the spot is the ultimate trail bike, and the sultan is the sickest 29er FS on the market! The RFX looks absolutely rad, and its high on the list of bikes I'm dreaming of for when I can get back into biking over the next year or two. I can't wait for this, its got everything I want.

    Turner quality, CS, thoughtfulness, ride quality, and incredible reliability? Check
    Geometry? Check
    dw-link suspension? Check
    Tapered HT? Check
    Full length Housing? Check.
    Weight? Check

    I can't fuggin wait for this sh1t!

  74. #74
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    Sleep!

    My wife is a nurse and my son on the swim team, they were both outa the house at 5:30 this am.

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by William42
    The DHR will be the sickest DH bike in existence without exception.
    I can't fuggin wait for this sh1t!
    Fixed it for ya.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1soulrider
    Fixed it for ya.
    hahaha, while I love the old DHR, while I love turner, and dw, I'm still a pretty massive canfield whore and the evil sounds like it rides great with tons of adjustability that I crave.

    I'm sticking with my original statement, but I'd expect nothing less from turner homers

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by William42
    hahaha, while I love the old DHR, while I love turner, and dw, I'm still a pretty massive canfield whore and the evil sounds like it rides great with tons of adjustability that I crave.

    I'm sticking with my original statement, but I'd expect nothing less from turner homers
    Cool, I can understand that.
    The thing I didn't like about the Canfield is how much the chainstay lengthens when you load it into corners. I haven't ridden one in a few years, so I'm not sure if the newer models still extend on compression so much.
    The Canfield brothers are great guys and skilled riders for sure, nothing but respect for them.
    As for the Evil, we will see what it has to offer. It sounds interesting.

  78. #78
    trail fairy
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    Quote Originally Posted by squish
    Hey TA,

    I'm with ya, things are changing way to fast and too many new standards are being introduced to fix problems that may or may not exist. While some are good, others not so much as we've learned. .

    I think most of this craziness is arising because of bikes like the RFX, bikes that more or less straddle the line between pure trail and freeride. They more or less need to be built tougher than the average bike to take the added abuse, but not as burly as a say a Highline. They need to be responsibly light but not so light that they break. So everyone is trying to get there, but they're trying to work around it and in the process making more headaches for us.

    Some of it's not going any where, lets face it when Trek and Specialized both start building frames around the tapered head tube it's pretty much not going any where.

    One thing we most certainly have too many of is rear hub options. Lets get it narrowed down to a couple and call it good shall we. I do have to give the hub manufacturers some credit though, they've been really good about keeping up with the new standards and have made it pretty pain free by simply making adapters in most instances.

    A lot of it looks really promising, I like most of the features of the 142 x12. Time and real world use are the only way that the crap will be weeded out from the good.

    Those are my thoughts now any way.

    And back on topic, it almost looks like there's something a little bit different going on with the upper race for that new Inset, I'd like to see on torn apart.

    happy trails...

    squish
    I hear ya Squish good rational points, ya bring balance to me lines on the trail chur lol, I agree on the hubs might get a more consistent setup with alignment and cranks compatibility cassette makers etc! nah good thing and making it compatible with exisitng I give them 5 stars for that that is nice stuff!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bikezilla
    I can't believe you pple are tossing poo about cable housing. I've got one of each and can't say either was a big deal different.

    This is about the only declaration I can agree with wholeheartedly!

    DT please make sure it can take a heavyweight beating like the 6Pack could and feel at least as confident and stable. And if it pedals better and is lighter then that's icing on the cake IMO. The 6P is/was my favorite do-all bike. Let the Highline be the planet bomb.
    BZ I agree, CC just wants more work to do is in workshop is all, look those XC boys want light non full housing by a true XC bike trail AM bikes up should not have XC hang over crap technology from the gawd dam 80s and cable routing and cable fixing is dam one of em. get rid of it and leave where it belongs in history forevea! it was never a std worth having for Joe only mechanics and racers like it

    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes
    Serotta, the 08 RFX with 160mm travel fork and 2.5 tires front and rear had a 12,5" BB with 1/3rd sag in the rear and 25-30% front. The new one will be considerably lower, plenty low for someone that wants to ride the thing up hill in the rough. which is what most will do with this bike, IMHO of course.

    Ching, As your buddie Moose has proven, most riders will not know the shortcoming of HS anyway. DWs calculates everthing to the zillionth decimal,so I am confident that his parameters are much tighter than most riders discernment, but in the dirt many will be very happy either way. Just build it and ride it. Do you have one in the works for the Highline?

    G-air, yep. The spec of the BB will be 14.1 with 550mm fork and 2.5 nevegals, with an on trail BB hovering around 11.8" I mentioned that the 'goal' was 7 pounds! When I publish the final weight, we will know for sure. There will be no Enron math with almost 4000 grams = 6.8 lbs! Of course it will be weighed with a RP23 as that is a great working simple to use shock. The RC 4 is amazing every DHR test rider. All the riders are having to ride the bike with 5.0 then the RC4, and in the case of those with other brands on their old DHRs they install them for baseline feel. The RC4 is impressing all those who wrote off the 5.0

    142 will kill 135. The GREAT thing is that all the 'good' hub makers have the ability to make upgrade kits and convert your current stuff to the new spec for a nominal cost. We, the industry has had the same kind of set up on Lyrics and 36s and Totems for years, put wheel in fork and it sits there ready for the axle. Why not the rear? Adding stiffness will come from getting rid of the spindly wire qr. Even the bolted rear hubs with a QR drop out will not offer the total grip of a couple 12mm holes thru plate.

    TA, the % of 1.5s to 1.125s is minuscule, 1.5 is the non standard in stems. Most of them are probably 60mm long or less. Ask the stem makers if you don't agree. DH bikes dont even use 1.5, and they are even fading towards direct mounts, another standard!! Damn yanks. There are so few used 1.5 forks sitting in riders garages that for me to worry about them being swapped to a new bike is absurd. But for all the 1.125" 160mm + forks that have been sold is immense in comparison, and they will ALL fit on the new bike just fine. So will their stem, and their upper head set for that matter! Talk about compatibility, I may not be designing to fit the stuff sitting in your garage, but I do think about all the stuff that has been sold in many riders garages.

    DT
    <link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5CBrad%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cmsoht ml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><link rel="Edit-Time-Data" href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5CBrad%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cmsoht ml1%5C01%5Cclip_editdata.mso"><!--[if !mso]> <style> v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} </style> <![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:PunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <wontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><style> <!-- /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0cm; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} @page Section1 {size:612.0pt 792.0pt; margin:72.0pt 90.0pt 72.0pt 90.0pt; mso-header-margin:36.0pt; mso-footer-margin:36.0pt; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]--> DT not to be a total PIA I hear ya and appreciate ya coming back to em, point taken but believe it or not my points are not about me, my take on 1.5 is that 1.5 allows both options tapered only allows tapered forks or 1.125 so I see no advantage!

    People can use high quality reducers sets now and choose to use 1.5 HT forks or 1.125 HT they have had availability of reducer sets for some time in fact DW makes em himself!

    Im not so worried about HA's many want slacker than manufacturer speccs anyway, BB heights ya! I'll live with that if I can get the HA right and stiffer front end slightly softer rear anyway, many have there rears too stiff and forks too soft imo anyhoo! Which poo's there GEO off topic slightly!

    I hear what you are saying re numbers but that is also industry sabotage as much as consumers buy in! You yourself made 1.5 in the HL and the 09 DHR I know again will use integrated for triples or reducers! to me its all about options then education! OEM has allot to answer for as do LBS and how they market and pass on info to new and MTBS as they progress through the sport not every one is a gear head on mtbr learning asking questions and the industry is quick to kill off good ideas, as for stems I can find many good 1.5 stems around my small LBS bud has 2 in shop yesterday he is only small less than 15 bikes in his shop yet has Thomson and Truvativ 1.5 stem, I agree re size in 15 why would you want more than 60mm of stem no need for more!

    1.5 imo shouldn't be required on a fork over 150mm though I loved it on my head shocks and lefty's no one killed me DH on a hard tail or short travel FS back in the day when I had those babies I was like a uni cycle riding the front wheel gave new meaning!

    Im one the other side of this debate, sorry its only my opinion DT not saying you are wrong I just disagree and see other ways to skin the cat! Opinions are just that doesn’t mean we can't ride and be merry!

    Good to see though you say just mount up the Hammershite and ride the dam thing that's refreshing!



    <link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5CBrad%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cmsoht ml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:PunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <wontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><style> <!-- /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0cm; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} @page Section1 {size:612.0pt 792.0pt; margin:72.0pt 90.0pt 72.0pt 90.0pt; mso-header-margin:36.0pt; mso-footer-margin:36.0pt; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]--> I’m really thinking of going all out in 2010 on the 06 RFX SS old school and ditching the Dually setup and Hammershite is likely to be outta the budget after 2yos no income and economic doom, though I don't know what that means to me I been living day by day so I’m already processed LOL

    I’m going RFX single ring up front with an e13 LG1 hardcore 11/28 in rear 34 up front maybe 36 so I can HTFU and get back into shape, I’m like the Michelin man at the mo, I reckon this is the next big thing on AM bikes!

    I will call it TAsinglethinghy !


    Be well, happy trails as the Squishmeister would say !<!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape id="_x0000_i1026" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style='width:11.25pt;height:11.25pt'> <v:imagedata src="file:///C:\DOCUME~1\Brad\LOCALS~1\Temp\msohtml1\01\clip_im age002.gif" o:href="https://forums.mtbr.com/images/smilies/smile5.gif"/> </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]--><!--[endif]-->
    Last edited by trailadvent; 03-03-2009 at 12:11 PM.
    Just riding a muddy trail. . ..

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  79. #79
    the refurbished one
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    sooo, who has already sent an email to Chris King asking about X12 hubs?
    would be nice to have a conversion kit like for the front hubs for 15mm forks.
    Sokrates is dead, Galilei is dead, Newton is dead, Einstein is dead, Pantani is dead and i am feeling sick too.

  80. #80
    mtbr member
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    Quote Originally Posted by hball
    sooo, who has already sent an email to Chris King asking about X12 hubs?
    would be nice to have a conversion kit like for the front hubs for 15mm forks.
    "Thank you for taking the time to contact us here at Chris King. I recently spoke with some gentlemen about the X12 platform, as the bike world is constantly evolving and changing it can be difficult at times to keep up with everything. I have forwarded the request to make an X12 compatible hub to our marketing department. With forty new products this year and a frame company we are currently very busy, it is definitely something we are looking into. Keep your eye on our website for any updates, and thank you for your support!"

  81. #81
    the refurbished one
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    must be a template!
    got the exact same answer...
    Sokrates is dead, Galilei is dead, Newton is dead, Einstein is dead, Pantani is dead and i am feeling sick too.

  82. #82
    ~~~~~~~~
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    okay, about the headset....
    DT, what is the intended headset for the RFX to maintain the numbers you're giving us?

    The one thing that interests me the most about full 1.5 is the ability to run a zero stack on the top for low bar height, important for the short riders with tall forks. To the best of my knowledge the only option so far to do this with the tapered is with this new CK headset or other zero/internal. Are you interested in providing the 44mm upper head tube inside diameter? Which would then require the 56mm lower ID making it impossible to run a typical 1.5 lower cup?

    If it's traditional ID's then I have to ask for a shorter headtube, that small amount you added to the 08 RFX's headtube is quite noticable to me.

    I know you're tiring of the 1.5 debate, but if not 1.5 then give the headtube enough extra metal to ream out for the CK and or make the small frames HT sub 4".

    I also think the RFX should have the most flexibility for setup, i.e. either a full stack bottom cup that maintains intended geometry with a zero option to lower and steeper, or vice versa. Same with the top, but a zero stack on top allows for corrections with spacers, stem's and bar rise, and full stack on top doesn't provide as many options to get the front lower.

  83. #83
    FM
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    I can't believe you pple are tossing poo about headsets.

    Just step away from the computer and breath deeply please.


  84. #84
    Outcast
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    I don't care jack s h i t about headsets, full cable housing, BB height, or tapered head tubes. What everyone should be wondering about is; is the frame going to come with an integrated EBM....?
    Wish Smokey would come back here for a while......
    ****

  85. #85
    I think I need to Upgrade
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    I am going to have to agree with CC on the full length housing, in certain environments it is a bennefit however in other environments, it is not a bennifit. I live in AZ and I am a former shop mechanic. I see/saw more shifting issues out here with full length housing than I did with interupted housing, and the interupred housing lasted longer with better shifting. I for one do not like full length housing, it has more flex there is no way around that argument it is a simple fact. If you live in an area where you shift a lot, your shifting is going to be better with out full length housing not counting environmental differences. If you throw in mud, water and muck, then yes you do have an advantage with full housing, but outside of that you do not, interupted is better. I would like to have a choice of running what I prefer, so how about housing guides that can be changed? That would make everyone happy!

  86. #86
    I think I need to Upgrade
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade
    is the frame going to come with an integrated EBM....?
    Wish Smokey would come back here for a while......

    I SECOND THE EBM this is a must have on this new frame!!!!!!

  87. #87
    Elitest thrill junkie
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzSpeedfreek
    I am going to have to agree with CC on the full length housing, in certain environments it is a bennefit however in other environments, it is not a bennifit. I live in AZ and I am a former shop mechanic. I see/saw more shifting issues out here with full length housing than I did with interupted housing, and the interupred housing lasted longer with better shifting. I for one do not like full length housing, it has more flex there is no way around that argument it is a simple fact. If you live in an area where you shift a lot, your shifting is going to be better with out full length housing not counting environmental differences. If you throw in mud, water and muck, then yes you do have an advantage with full housing, but outside of that you do not, interupted is better. I would like to have a choice of running what I prefer, so how about housing guides that can be changed? That would make everyone happy!
    Truthiness
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  88. #88
    mtbr member
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    Quote Originally Posted by juan_speeder
    I have forwarded the request to make an X12 compatible hub to our marketing department. With forty new products this year and a frame company we are currently very busy,
    CK making frames? Did they buy a frame company? i'm too lazy to dig, anybody have some news?
    nothing witty here...

  89. #89
    the refurbished one
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    Sokrates is dead, Galilei is dead, Newton is dead, Einstein is dead, Pantani is dead and i am feeling sick too.

  90. #90
    steep fast and loose :)
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    Quote Originally Posted by cactuscorn
    nice spin! as long as were here to twist each others words, how about every bike company designs around you, yer pals and yer weather? think of how the industry will explode! i mean, screw the rest of the worlds riders and their climates. who need those losers anyway when we have washington state and british columbia. thats gotta be over 50% of the planets core riding population and bike related wealth.

    i knew this wasnt gonna go well but damn.
    ever heard of a place called Europe ?

  91. #91
    yelgatgab
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    So, we talkin' 7 pounds (I know, estimated) with the RP23?

    5 Spot who?

    Edit: I'll just say that dry climate doesn't negate the advantages of full length housing. I lived in Utah, and partial housing still sucked. Talc infiltrates everything, so does Moab sand. The only reason I ever noticed any decrease in shifting performance with full-length was because I hadn't changed my cables/housing in almost 2 years.

    To each his own, though. My Heckler has dual purpose stops. You can run sections of cable into the stops, or zip-tie full-length housing to the outsides. Seems like a pretty good compromise to me.
    Last edited by bagtagley; 03-04-2009 at 07:17 AM.

  92. #92
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    This thing is sounding better and better. I love my 08 RFX I got back in the fall, but I told FM maybe if I start saving pennies now I can afford the new one.
    If jackasses could fly this place would be an airport.

  93. #93
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    Moderator, please re-name this the "totally *****in' 2011 RFX thread".

    This thread has a ton of good info in it, shame to see it mis-labeled like this. Even the cable routing opinions are fun to read.

  94. #94
    Amphibious Technologies
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty Bottoms
    Moderator, ...
    You meant OP; right?
    "The best you've ridden is the best you know" - Paul Thede, Race Tech

  95. #95
    Moosehead
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    u mean the totally beyotchin 2010 RFX

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