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  1. #401
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    Turner RFX v4.0 review - BikeRadar USA

    Sounds alright I suppose if you like that sort of thing......

  2. #402
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uphill=sad View Post
    Maybe he knew so little of mountain biking he thought he was CX'ing?
    I think it means you're not really mountain biking until you ride an RFX.
    ''It seems like a bit of a trend, everyone trying to make things longer over the last couple of years" Sam Hill

  3. #403
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    Buy if: You’re one of the Turner faithful who have been waiting years for the return of the RFX

    So.......no one who's never owned a turner would think this is a good bike?


    People say the dumbest shit in mtb media.
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  4. #404
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo View Post
    So.......no one who's never owned a turner would think this is a good bike?


    People say the dumbest shit in mtb media.
    seems like people are scrambling to be one of the first to write a review of the RFX - regardless how much they actually know about the bike, the company, or their own ability.

    It's still nice to see Turner getting so much free press and positive reviews. They deserve it.
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  5. #405
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    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    seems like people are scrambling to be one of the first to write a review of the RFX - regardless how much they actually know about the bike, the company, or their own ability.

    It's still nice to see Turner getting so much free press and positive reviews. They deserve it.
    I don't know why it is, but I find myself agreeing with you a lot this week. At least the BikeRumor article was clear that they were his initial impressions and he would see how they hold up on a longer term review.

    There is no doubt the RFX is a good bike, but I sure to miss the Tscheezy reports. Well written and he really fleshed out the differences in the bikes.
    Riding slowly since 1977.

  6. #406
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    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    seems like people are scrambling to be one of the first to write a review of the RFX - regardless how much they actually know about the bike, the company, or their own ability.
    "ooh ooh, here are some words! They don't make sense or are straight up incorrect but I've got'em!"



    Actually......

    I guess that's not exactly mtb specific. Hrmm
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  7. #407
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    I'm curious why bikeradar gave it a rating already when they intend to do a long term review. Seems a bit premature.

  8. #408
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    Quote Originally Posted by beefmagic View Post
    I'm curious why bikeradar gave it a rating already when they intend to do a long term review. Seems a bit premature.
    I guess when you really like a bike it may cause 'Premature Evaluation'.

  9. #409
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    Quote Originally Posted by renoirbud View Post
    I guess when you really like a bike it may cause 'Premature Evaluation'.
    LOL! I think they make a pill for that. Perhaps DT should be handing them out at dirt demo.

  10. #410
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cary View Post
    There is no doubt the RFX is a good bike, but I sure to miss the Tscheezy reports. Well written and he really fleshed out the differences in the bikes.
    KRob is the new Tscheezy!

    Check out his review soon at http://www.stuckinthespokes.com

  11. #411
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    Quote Originally Posted by deanopatoni View Post
    KRob is the new Tscheezy!

    Check out his review soon at Stuck in the Spokes - Riding with KRob
    I agree with Cary. I miss Tscheezy's reports. I've been the "new" Tscheezy for 6-7 years now but I'm the first to admit I'm a poor substitute.
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  12. #412
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    Forgot about Krob's excellent writeups.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD so please forgive the typos that occur when typing with two fingers.
    Riding slowly since 1977.

  13. #413
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    So is the new prduction RFX matte or gloss coat? I've seen pics of both but the flat finish looks best in my opinion.

  14. #414
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    I agree with Cary. I miss Tscheezy's reports. I've been the "new" Tscheezy for 6-7 years now but I'm the first to admit I'm a poor substitute.
    It ain't easy being tcheezy.
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  15. #415
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    Flat

  16. #416
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    Where's the tscheezy ?
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  17. #417
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    Is it October yet?
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  18. #418
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  19. #419
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    It's funny how when the current nomad came out, that 13.4 bb was just 'so very low', and the turner's 13.4 bb 'sounds high'

    I'm going to go ahead and set the rules:

    Low = 13"
    Just like everyone else = 13.3-13.6"
    High= 13.8+



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  20. #420
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    The RFX has the largest variance with respect its reviews.

    Check out this one by dirtragmag...
    We ride the latest Turner, the v4.0 RFX.

    Says less playful and poppy than a Nomad -huh?

  21. #421
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dude! View Post
    Says less playful and poppy than a Nomad -huh?

    It must be dead. Not 'dead feeling' but literally deceased.
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  22. #422
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo View Post
    It must be dead. Not 'dead feeling' but literally deceased.
    So what is your interpretation of the tea leaves in how this bike rides? Poppy, slug, bobs when out of the saddle or snappy?

    I am also curious about M compression on the Debonair owing to the relatively progressive nature of the suspension on the linkage design.

  23. #423
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    If that linkage plot is correct, it's not really that progressive, a little less than what he's got for the 5 spot actually. I stuffed like 6-8 rubber bands in the monarch on my 5 spot and thought it ended up pretty good. I'm guessing this would be similar. It does look better than what weagle did on some of the pivot trailbikes though.

    My 5 spot is still my benchmark for all around awesomeness that covers all bases pretty well. If this is similar just with the obvious difference in travel and geo, I think it'll be pretty damn good, as in pretty nimble but still composed when you knock the living crap out of something. That's the way I remember my spot. If I could have gotten a swingarm that just moved the rear axle up on my 5 spot to lower the BB and slacken it, I'd still be completely happy riding that bike. So.......maybe this is that.

    I do wish the chainstay were sub 17 but whatever. Guys 6'3" need swingarms too.
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  24. #424
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    Thanks man! Great info to know.

  25. #425
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo View Post

    I do wish the chainstay were sub 17 but whatever. Guys 6'3" need swingarms too.
    Yes we do.

  26. #426
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    I'm still mad at you people.
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  27. #427
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo View Post
    If that linkage plot is correct, it's not really that progressive, a little less than what he's got for the 5 spot actually. I stuffed like 6-8 rubber bands in the monarch on my 5 spot and thought it ended up pretty good. I'm guessing this would be similar. It does look better than what weagle did on some of the pivot trailbikes though.

    My 5 spot is still my benchmark for all around awesomeness that covers all bases pretty well. If this is similar just with the obvious difference in travel and geo, I think it'll be pretty damn good, as in pretty nimble but still composed when you knock the living crap out of something. That's the way I remember my spot. If I could have gotten a swingarm that just moved the rear axle up on my 5 spot to lower the BB and slacken it, I'd still be completely happy riding that bike. So.......maybe this is that.

    I do wish the chainstay were sub 17 but whatever. Guys 6'3" need swingarms too.
    Did you mod your spot? Offset bushings or Angleset?

  28. #428
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    Good memory?

    At first, it was an angleset because I had a 1 1/8" fork. Then I got a pike and couldn't use that so I got some offset bushings that produced a less dramatic effect.

    The angleset was a better setup for sure. It put the headangle at about 65+. It was awesome. The stiffness of a tapered pike was awesome too though.....win some you lose some.

    I tend to 'mod' most of my bikes though. Which is why I was already thinking about the swingarm. I looked into getting one made.
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  29. #429
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo View Post
    Good memory?

    At first, it was an angleset because I had a 1 1/8" fork. Then I got a I pike and couldn't use that so I got some offset bushings that produced a less dramatic effect.

    The angleset was a better setup for sure. It put the headangle at about 65+. It was awesome. The stiffness of a tapered pike was awesome too though.....win some you lose some.

    I tend to 'mod' most of my bikes though. Which is why I was already thinking about the swingarm. I looked into getting one made.
    Was it a Works headset? I have a 2010/2011 spot with straight HT so running out of fork options but I'm thinking old Vanilla and works headset might be good. Where the hell do you get a swing arm fabricated??

  30. #430
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    Hope everybody is ok after Typhoon Dujuan.
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  31. #431
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    Quote Originally Posted by expatrider View Post
    Was it a Works headset? I have a 2010/2011 spot with straight HT so running out of fork options but I'm thinking old Vanilla and works headset might be good. Where the hell do you get a swing arm fabricated??

    A few places if you have lots and lots and lots



    and lots of money to throw at it. Fabricators charge for one-offs. And it's not pretty.



    Yeah it was a works headset. Let me know if you want a -2 degree one. That's what I had/have and I'd be happy to sell it to you cheaper (and way faster) than works. I doubt I'll ever use it again.
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  32. #432
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo View Post
    A few places if you have lots and lots and lots



    and lots of money to throw at it. Fabricators charge for one-offs. And it's not pretty.



    Yeah it was a works headset. Let me know if you want a -2 degree one. That's what I had/have and I'd be happy to sell it to you cheaper (and way faster) than works. I doubt I'll ever use it again.
    yeah I'll probably take it - can you PM the deets

  33. #433
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    Ok serious question. What do you all think is the reason for the seemingly wide variance in the reviews? I've read most all the reviews and they range from lukewarm to stellar. I can understand different preferences and subpar setup/components being some of the cause but what else? I can't imagine Turner would send out a badly setup bike for review especially one so highly anticipated. Perhaps things have progressed so quickly that a great bike a year ago is just mediocre now. Pardon my rambling, just thinking out loud while waiting for October!

  34. #434
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    Quote Originally Posted by beefmagic View Post
    Ok serious question. What do you all think is the reason for the seemingly wide variance in the reviews? I've read most all the reviews and they range from lukewarm to stellar. I can understand different preferences and subpar setup/components being some of the cause but what else? I can't imagine Turner would send out a badly setup bike for review especially one so highly anticipated. Perhaps things have progressed so quickly that a great bike a year ago is just mediocre now. Pardon my rambling, just thinking out loud while waiting for October!

    Here is my thought.

    My first ride on my Burner, I was a little surprised how much work it was and how much I was being thrown around and nothing came easy. I very quickly realized that this was all my fault.

    Within 4 rides, I felt a little more swagger and just tried to be more aggressive. The bike rewarded me massively. The more aggressive I have gotten on the Burner, the better it performs.

    I have now completed longer technical climbs on the Burner that I have never gotten up before. (including trying them on a TNT Sultan, DW Spot, DW Sultan and Czar)

    And downhill, the only bike I prefer is my DHR.

    Short version;
    I think a highly capable bike rewards aggression.

  35. #435
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    Quote Originally Posted by beefmagic View Post
    Ok serious question. What do you all think is the reason for the seemingly wide variance in the reviews? I've read most all the reviews and they range from lukewarm to stellar. I can understand different preferences and subpar setup/components being some of the cause but what else? I can't imagine Turner would send out a badly setup bike for review especially one so highly anticipated. Perhaps things have progressed so quickly that a great bike a year ago is just mediocre now. Pardon my rambling, just thinking out loud while waiting for October!
    I am curious about this as well. With it being a Turner and this being the awakened RFX, I assume it is either over expectation (luke warm), over excitement (stellar), or no aspect of the bike being considered relatively extraordinary (reviews as a solid bike - upper middle of the pack). I can except the varying reviews, it is more the varying reviews about the suspension behavior that confuse me the most.

  36. #436
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    Quote Originally Posted by renoirbud View Post

    Short version;
    I think a highly capable bike rewards aggression.
    Yeah I can see that. I've had similar experiences with other bikes and Avalanche suspension. The more aggressive I rode the better the bike handled.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dude! View Post
    .... or no aspect of the bike being considered relatively extraordinary (reviews as a solid bike - upper middle of the pack). I can except the varying reviews, it is more the varying reviews about the suspension behavior that confuse me the most.
    I was thinking this as well. The word that came up in a few reviews was "balanced." Perhaps as you said it's not on the extreme end of geometry (say like the Following or Insurgent) that no one attribute really sticks out. Turner's have been praised as "neutral" handling in the past, too (in the best sense of the word).

    I agree about being somewhat confused about the reviews on suspension behavior in regards to the DirtRag first ride/review where they said it wasn't as poppy or playful but then also said due to the aggressive anti-squat it lost traction unexpectedly. Perhaps this is more of a bad tire/bootleg conditions and body positioning issue.

    I can't believe it's as simple as user error as some bikes like the Following get universally stellar reviews from a wide range of riders it would seem.

  37. #437
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    Quote Originally Posted by expatrider View Post
    Was it a Works headset? I have a 2010/2011 spot with straight HT so running out of fork options but I'm thinking old Vanilla and works headset might be good. Where the hell do you get a swing arm fabricated??
    I'd bet you can still find an x fusion vengeance with a straight steerer that's what I'm running on my burner. Got the fork new last year. And it's a damn good fork.

  38. #438
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    Quote Originally Posted by beefmagic View Post
    Ok serious question. What do you all think is the reason for the seemingly wide variance in the reviews? I've read most all the reviews and they range from lukewarm to stellar. I can understand different preferences and subpar setup/components being some of the cause but what else? I can't imagine Turner would send out a badly setup bike for review especially one so highly anticipated. Perhaps things have progressed so quickly that a great bike a year ago is just mediocre now. Pardon my rambling, just thinking out loud while waiting for October!
    Cuz so far it's all been interbike crap. Which is like one, maybe two pedals up and down. You can't setup a bike in that time unless you know what you're doing. And Francois and co. and most of the mtb 'media' do not know what they're doing.
    STRAVA: Enabling dorks everywhere to get trails shut down........ all for the sake of a race on the internet.

  39. #439
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo View Post
    Cuz so far it's all been interbike crap. Which is like one, maybe two pedals up and down. You can't setup a bike in that time unless you know what you're doing. And Francois and co. and most of the mtb 'media' do not know what they're doing.
    Exactly this.

    There is no way with the 100s of permutations of tires, air pressure, rim width, trail conditions, compression, rebound, cockpit, sun-angle, humidity, brakes, drivetrain, temperature, hangover-ratio, that anyone can give a less than cursory comparison of one frame to another. These reviews- especially the 1-hour Interbike demos- are basically internet-spew... Within a few rides and with a few set-up tweaks, anyone of these current lot of bikes will ride awesome.

  40. #440
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo View Post
    Cuz so far it's all been interbike crap. Which is like one, maybe two pedals up and down. You can't setup a bike in that time unless you know what you're doing. And Francois and co. and most of the mtb 'media' do not know what they're doing.

    Pretty sure that kidwoo is Donald trump! LOL
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  41. #441
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    Was it the bronzing cream that gave it away?
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    I often wonder what trails folks are riding when reviewing these "AllMountain/Enduro" bikes.

    Reading Dirt Rags review they stated that ..."I didn’t have time to shuttle up to the downhill course at Bootleg Canyon, so I didn’t really get a chance to open it up"....really WTF ? so basically you didn't even ride the bike for its intended purpose.

    These bikes are intended to be rallied on steep fast trails if your wallowing along smooth buff xc trails don't expect to get the best out of these types of bikes.

    The RFX should really excel and be able to handle all the DH trails at Bootleg. Seems that most of the reviews are people riding the Girl Scout trail. Did anyone ride the RFX down Snake Back, Armagagedon, Poop Shoot, Kavorkian, Reaper?

  43. #443
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    ^Exactly what I'm talking about.

    Anyone getting on a 160+ trail bike at bootleg should pedal immediately over to snakeback and try to break the wheels off the thing. You don't buy a bike that slack, that heavy, and with that much travel to go spin around on girlscout and then talk about how 'capable' it is or isn't. And honestly it should take at least a full run with plenty of stops just to get it setup for however you like your bikes setup.
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  44. #444
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo View Post
    Cuz so far it's all been interbike crap......
    Outerbike is this weekend. Seems like all the real reviews will start coming in next week.

    Lots of really really really good bikes out there right now. You got to ride them to see what fits your riding style.

  45. #445
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    Just got an email from Turner. Some mediums in black are in stock!


    EDIT: Looks like they may mean the pre-order for November delivery but the email said in stock so I am not sure.

  46. #446
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    Can you actually buy them though?


    It think they're all spoken for through the secret preorder process that no one knew about until after it was done.


    Carbon RFX Is Here-preorder.png


    Next chance: Lovember
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  47. #447
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmar123 View Post
    I often wonder what trails folks are riding when reviewing these "AllMountain/Enduro" bikes.

    Reading Dirt Rags review they stated that ..."I didn’t have time to shuttle up to the downhill course at Bootleg Canyon, so I didn’t really get a chance to open it up"....really WTF ? so basically you didn't even ride the bike for its intended purpose.

    These bikes are intended to be rallied on steep fast trails if your wallowing along smooth buff xc trails don't expect to get the best out of these types of bikes.

    The RFX should really excel and be able to handle all the DH trails at Bootleg. Seems that most of the reviews are people riding the Girl Scout trail. Did anyone ride the RFX down Snake Back, Armagagedon, Poop Shoot, Kavorkian, Reaper?

    We rode it UP Girl Scout and Boy Scout (and the steep, switchbacky entrance to Caldera), then down Skyline and East Leg, then over to West Leg and up over the saddle and dropped into Mother. Not as steep as Snake Back but easily as rough with a few short steep climbs mixed in to get a feel for it's all-purpose intent. But yes, I would love to take it down Snake Back and a few of the other DH runs to really test its Newduro cred because what you don't get with our route is high speeds. I'd also like to take it on a big 30 mile loop in the high country with some big climbs and long fast descents. I'd also like to take to down Whore House Hill (local Enduro Expert stage), Gooseberry, Grafton, Bone Shaker and South Mountain, and Moab to really see how it would handle the kinds of rides I like to do.

    But, as you mentioned, with two hours to work with and only so many trails and (too much) time dealing with setting up the suspension you've gotta pick your spots. This route, I believe gives Enduro/AM bikes a pretty good work out for both climbing AND descending.

    However, I know a lot of testers stay on the lower Lakes Loops which are quite smooth and XC oriented. Not ideal for a bike of this ilk.
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  48. #448
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    We rode it UP Girl Scout and Boy Scout (and the steep, switchbacky entrance to Caldera), then down Skyline and East Leg, then over to West Leg and up over the saddle and dropped into Mother. Not as steep as Snake Back but easily as rough with a few short steep climbs mixed in to get a feel for it's all-purpose intent. But yes, I would love to take it down Snake Back and a few of the other DH runs to really test its Newduro cred because what you don't get with our route is high speeds. I'd also like to take it on a big 30 mile loop in the high country with some big climbs and long fast descents. I'd also like to take to down Whore House Hill (local Enduro Expert stage), Gooseberry, Grafton, Bone Shaker and South Mountain, and Moab to really see how it would handle the kinds of rides I like to do.

    But, as you mentioned, with two hours to work with and only so many trails and (too much) time dealing with setting up the suspension you've gotta pick your spots. This route, I believe gives Enduro/AM bikes a pretty good work out for both climbing AND descending.

    However, I know a lot of testers stay on the lower Lakes Loops which are quite smooth and XC oriented. Not ideal for a bike of this ilk.
    That's why your reviews have way more credibility and why most of us wait patiently for them. Keep up the good work.

  49. #449
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    Yeah rob, your stuff is better than most of what sells ad space.


    I think you know that though
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  50. #450
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes View Post
    No the Evil Following and RFX are not made in same factory. Both are large, first class operations, not even in same city.

    If one has ever built a bike with internal cable routing knows its a pain in the ass. I don't intend to force RFX buyers to drag their unfinished build to a dealer for pro fishing help. And lets face it, most mtb's 'internal' routing is a f'ing joke. barely skipping under the bottle cage area, followed by big loops hanging out? random cables but not hoses? marketing bs.
    I do a lot of bike work and barely loosening a clamp and dragging housing out, cutting new to match and threading it back is easy and fast.

    Longer would be nice if everyone rode straight rock lines and IMBA / ride centre flow trails. But most riders do not, and with angles slacker than ever keeping in touch with that front wheel is going to be a challenge for most, so I did what I did.
    well said dt

  51. #451
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    October is here!

    RFX numbers are close to the highline except for the high BB and porky pig weights.

    I Doubt anyone took the RFx down Ginger either which is what I want to read about. for what its worth the highline worked on Ginger.

    Some are complaining about the reach, however, I am looking forward to a short reach. After riding the dhr for a few days I felt very uncomfortable on the 6" trail bike today. Descending overall felt tall and forward, I would rather be centered into the bike, lower and slightly rearward. Perhaps the shorter reach will help transitioning from one to the other???

    Sounds like emphasis was placed on rfx billy goat climbing abilities. If it climbs well that's an added bonus. we know its going to be an instant comfortable connection first ride, I would expect nothing less from DT's designs.

    Hoping for matte finish with red or green decals to match my tea kit.


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  52. #452
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    I feel like a fair number of these, "reviews" are written by hungover older folk who can't really push the bike but know how to spew some quality buzzwords. It's pretty awesome hahah
    Ground Steeze. @iggy_strbac

  53. #453
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iggz View Post
    I feel like a fair number of these, "reviews" are written by hungover older folk who can't really push the bike but know how to spew some quality buzzwords.
    You know you're on mtbr right?
    STRAVA: Enabling dorks everywhere to get trails shut down........ all for the sake of a race on the internet.

  54. #454
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iggz View Post
    I feel like a fair number of these, "reviews" are written by hungover older folk who can't really push the bike but know how to spew some quality buzzwords. It's pretty awesome hahah
    I'm happy to stick with your review Iggz!

    "Best.Bike.Ever"

    Fewer words mean more.

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  55. #455
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    My review of the RFX, this will be short;

    I rode it once on Friday, rode it again on Sunday. Deadmans Ridge to Bar-B to Killer B on the Brands Trails. It was the second and sixth bike I rode, so I was adequately tired. I rode 4 other Carbon 6" bikes during Outerbike (Devinci, Ibis, Giant, Yeti). The RFX required the least effort to get moving and keep moving. As stated by others the bike is balance, responds predictable to steering input, can handle rough stuff at speed and hold a line.

    Bottom line, I am not even home yet, but have already ordered my RFX with upgrade kit.
    Last edited by renoirbud; 10-05-2015 at 08:31 PM.

  56. #456
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iggz View Post
    I feel like a fair number of these, "reviews" are written by hungover older folk who can't really push the bike but know how to spew some quality buzzwords. It's pretty awesome hahah
    I am deeply offended by your remarks. As one of the many senoir citizens here on MTBR, I will let you know many of us can outride your young punk ass Most days of the week, except the days I am deeply troubled by my arthritis, bladder issues, diabetic fluxations, and crankiness. My AARP representative will be in contact with you.
    ****

  57. #457
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    http://reviews.mtbr.com/roundup-5-ho...bikes-for-2016

    So it looks like the MTBR crew got an RFX with a threaded BB - hmm...
    ¡Geaux Tigers! - ¡Visca el Barça!

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  58. #458
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    The bb is not threaded and this is the only miss I see on an almost perfect bike.

  59. #459
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheezwhip View Post
    Roundup: 5 hot enduro bikes for 2016 - Mtbr.com

    So it looks like the MTBR crew got an RFX with a threaded BB - hmm...
    or they're just incorrect ....

  60. #460
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    Obviously they are incorrect. The bike I saw at Turner shop uses a praxis bb where you can thread a threaded bb.


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  61. #461
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    Does anyone know it the RFX ships with the angle set? The only option on the turner store is a +-1 deg but the RFX description says up to a 2deg is obtainable with the headset.

  62. #462

  63. #463
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    Quote Originally Posted by etacata View Post
    Does anyone know it the RFX ships with the angle set? The only option on the turner store is a +-1 deg but the RFX description says up to a 2deg is obtainable with the headset.
    -1 and +1 = 2 degrees. Another example is 65 vs 67 is 2 degrees difference.

  64. #464
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    ^^ Nice reviews Toni !!

    also...

    page 73 Decline Magazine: Downhill - Freestyle - All-Mountain - Bike Culture

    nice.

  65. #465
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    Is it just the lighting or do the links and decals look slightly bronze in this picture?

    Carbon RFX Is Here-uploadfromtaptalk1445717699623.jpg
    ¡Geaux Tigers! - ¡Visca el Barça!

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    iv had the RFX for 5 long years (2008), after waiting on DT to show up with a the new version i gave up on it....and im glad i did.
    besides hype and increased sales carbon has no benefit for a rider that actualy rides his bike. hit a rock and that 3K frame you paid for is a goner.
    27.5 wheels physics is another story and again no benefit here , same old hype thing

    however if you stand on your toes and try to over look the hype, carefully check what ur buying, u will find good old folks out there still making bikes meant to last...for people who ride...

    i will mention one such company, banshee, ty for making Alu 26" bikes out there.
    i now ride a darkside, and guess what, the beast has far more punch then my old RFX, not only that it also pedals better...and its a FR/park category bike .

    I admit i know nothing of the new RFX ride, but then again, iv waited and waited...my 08 RFX served me well but now its time to stretch that grin ...
    i guess good things come to those who wait....at half the price....
    DT for your consideration
    ben

  67. #467
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheezwhip View Post
    Is it just the lighting or do the links and decals look slightly bronze in this picture?
    Shouldn't you be out riding?

  68. #468
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    Quote Originally Posted by renoirbud View Post
    Shouldn't you be out riding?
    The story of my life lately... working this AM. Hoping to get a few pedal cranks in this afternoon though.
    ¡Geaux Tigers! - ¡Visca el Barça!

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  69. #469
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheezwhip View Post
    Is it just the lighting or do the links and decals look slightly bronze in this picture?
    Definitely pink.
    STRAVA: Enabling dorks everywhere to get trails shut down........ all for the sake of a race on the internet.

  70. #470
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    I think I'm color blind
    ¡Geaux Tigers! - ¡Visca el Barça!

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  71. #471
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    Im not really sure where you get your numbers from:

    RFX frame is $2999
    Darkside frame is $2500

    Not even close to half the price.

    One more thing for your consideration. If you traded in your old RFX frame for a new one, it would be cheaper than that Darkside frame.

  72. #472
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    Im not really sure where you get your numbers from:

    RFX frame is $2999
    Darkside frame is $2500

    Not even close to half the price.

    One more thing for your consideration. If you traded in your old RFX frame for a new one, it would be cheaper than that Darkside frame.
    +1. For what you get (carbon, latest iteration of DT's dw-link) this is an incredible competitively priced frame when you consider the trade in value and upgrade kit.
    That's what swayed me over other frames. $600 off for trade in and brand new Pike and headset for $400.

  73. #473
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    Headset is included also
    ¡Geaux Tigers! - ¡Visca el Barça!

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  74. #474
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    Im not really sure where you get your numbers from:

    RFX frame is $2999
    Darkside frame is $2500

    Not even close to half the price.

    One more thing for your consideration. If you traded in your old RFX frame for a new one, it would be cheaper than that Darkside frame.
    Doesn't work out that way in Australia, the rune is a better comparison to the RFX, the darkside more so like the old highline.

    Rune 2400 (CCDBA)
    RFX 4200

    Nearly double for us,

  75. #475
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    darkside

    true, the "advertised" price for a new darkside is 2500usd (including shock), however as we are all grown up kids we also know that waiting is a virtue, so having waited close to season end i purchaed a darkside with rc4 at 1600usd BNIB.

    now i have a long romance with DT as before my rfx i had a spot so a loyal customer like me had been riding DT for ten years or so.
    however its sad to see the industry pushing new products that have no advantage , to a hype driven market, mainly due to customer ignorance.
    not only that, these new "better" products are unsurprisingly much more expensive than the prev generation.

    as far as i know carbon frame is much cheaper to make than alu.
    13 years ago i was riding a gary fisher sugar 1, horrible bike, but was considered best specd at the time , bike was carbon , full XTR and whatnot, i paid 2K BNIB for it back then (complete bike).

    a parallel specd bike nowadays costs 3 times as much, but who cares, people are still gonna buy it ,right ?
    bike industry took some time to figure out that this market is driven by hype and that most customers are willing to pay(alot) for their sticker.

    im not willing to take part in that, and the more people start acting responsibly about their hobby purchasing habits well all gain on it.

    DT for your consideration

    Ben

  76. #476
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    Im finding it difficult to tell if this is a trolling post, but I will answer giving the benefit of the doubt and assume it isnt.

    You are not even comparing the same thing in this discussion. You cannot compare the price of a brand new to market frame, to your clearout, year old frame. Additionally, they arent really the same type of bike. You really should be comparing the Rune to the RFX if you are going to make a fair comparison.

    The cost of bringing a carbon frame to market is MUCH more expensive than an aluminum model, so your assumption that it is cheaper is incorrect. How much time/money do you think goes into making the molds for each of these new bikes?
    I will agree, the bike industry has started to market some products which seem to confer (in your words) 'no advantage'. Carbon frames would not be one of them. They have been around for long enough to show their clear advantage in many situations.

    No one is forcing you to buy anything you dont want to. The market will decide what is hype and what works out to be the real deal.

  77. #477
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    Buzz, stop making sense, this is the internet.

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    1.the cost of creating a mold is a one time cost while the workmanship of a skilled welder is high and ongoing.
    the reason most bike manufacturers move to carbon is not due any benefits carbon gives but due to the lower manufacturing costs. there is probably a single factory in taiwan producing carbon frames for most of the large brandsyour consumers know

    2.trolling- if banshee were going tommorow with carbon frames i would have said the same thing for them as for you, it appears though as you are a turner employee finding it hard to cope with serious critique.

    3.your argument for the rune only strengthes my point as the rune is even cheaper than the darkside.

    4. the frame i purchased is a 2015 frame , not last year or last decade.

    5. as previously stated , your clients are currenly waiting on the next gimmick to come into market so they can throw away their perfectly good frames and spend mere thousands on a new look. that said , you should be thinking about it instead of wasting your time arguing with me and and misleading the crowd.

  79. #479
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    Quote Originally Posted by windben View Post

    5. as previously stated , your clients are currenly waiting on the next gimmick to come into market so they can throw away their perfectly good frames and spend mere thousands on a new look. that said , you should be thinking about it instead of wasting your time arguing with me and and misleading the crowd.
    How much time have you spent riding an RFX?

  80. #480
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    I guess I mis-interpreted your post, it was indeed a troll. Carry on.

  81. #481
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    Quote Originally Posted by windben View Post
    5. as previously stated , your clients are currenly waiting on the next gimmick to come into market so they can throw away their perfectly good frames and spend mere thousands on a new look. that said , you should be thinking about it instead of wasting your time arguing with me and and misleading the crowd.
    Your on the mark here if you were describing Boost.

    Obviously, the RFX is not for you.

  82. #482
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    I am answering the troll, not for the trolls sake, but to offer a bit of accurate information on making a bike frame so that the unsure are not misled

    There are plants all over Taiwan, China, Vietnam etc, employing thousands and thousands of people to keep up with the demand for the latest and greatest carbon bikes. The time it takes to lay up a carbon suspension frame is staggering. Hell, it takes over a half hour to make a handle bar! Now imagine how many centimeters of weld rod a skilled welder can lay down in 30 minutes. The reason that alloy frames typically sell for 30% less is that they cost less in production. I am NOT talking about Zen or Foes or Ventana, the small craft shops that are putting out small batches where economies of scale create a much higher per piece cost, but the big factories where Banshee and almost every other brand makes frames where tubes are produced largely by machine, and where a worker with basic training can drop tubes or other raw materials in one end of a machine and the very specific tooling creates the same shape over and over. Same with the forged bits, then they are cleaned in huge tanks and staged for weld. Sure, welders make good money as it is a skill, but a good welder can lay down some serious # of rod per hour on well mitred and prepped tubes/forgings. There is NO comparison in material costs either. So talking about a Darkside or Rune pricing in the same sentence as an RFX or HD3 or etc is ridiculous. Don't wanna believe? Look at every brand out there with identical models produced in alloy and carbon, from Giant to Santa Cruz, the price difference is massive.

    Every change that the industry has created makes a performance difference, to someone, and in most cases everyone. Some are quite small, some are massive advancements, but cumulatively they have created the incredible mountain bikes that we have to choose from today. Having ridden mtbs since 1982 I can say that almost EVERY change we ride today was met with skepticism when introduced, every 'feature' we ride today was once a new fangled way to pry more money from the poor mountain bikers pockets. Of course the easiest way to fix this is to go for a hike.

    DT

  83. #483
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    Nothing like information directly from the source to help clear things up! Thanks DT!

    Now you heard him......take a hike!

  84. #484
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    Plus the market is willing to pay 3k for a well made carbon frame, or a set of high end wheels, still amazes me how many dudes and dudettes out there have the disposable income for an 8k MB

  85. #485
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes View Post
    Of course the easiest way to fix this is to go for a hike.

    DT
    Best line of the week right there...

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    dave

    thank you for replying i appreciate that, i assume you are busy enough man.
    Im not here to harm turners business, as noted before i rode turners for the past 10 years, and im convinced turner is a great brand.
    My complaints are on your blog because i rode turners and not other brands .

    i am expressing my view of an industry (not only turner but the whole scene nowadays) that is capitalizing on so called "improvements" , not only that, these "improvements" are raising the retail cost of bikes unproportionaly .

    As we are both old timers, im sure you remember that carbon bikes are not new to the industry, i rode a gary fisher sugar 1 carbon bike back in 2002.
    Surprisingly, the advantages of carbon frames were not adopted by bike manufacturers back then and were discovered only lately, i wonder why were carbon advantages left unnoticed 15 years ago?
    a BNIB carbon complete bike with the highest components cost me back then 2K, thats not alot considering the low volumes of carbon bikes back then and inferior production technology.

    In your unbiased reply , you explained why carbon frames are so costly, but you did not explain why should anyone buy a carbon frame , whats the advantage ?
    i think you owe this answer to your audience!
    If you tell them that carbon is stiffer then i will answer back and tell them that carbon breaks while aluminum bends, do you need a good explanation here so i can learn something new too.

    regarding your comments on the evolution of the industry, it is true to a certain extent, mainly suspension technology (adopted from MX) and rear linkage , not 27.5, not carbon and not Boost.

    the only source of unbiased reporting of bikes i know is the linkage design website, where people serious about mtb can learn a thing or two, BTW your RFXv$ looks very promising on the graphs there and i was almost tempted if it werent for the carbon and the price of carbon.

    ben

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    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by windben View Post
    As we are both old timers, im sure you remember that carbon bikes are not new to the industry, i rode a gary fisher sugar 1 carbon bike back in 2002.
    Surprisingly, the advantages of carbon frames were not adopted by bike manufacturers back then and were discovered only lately, i wonder why were carbon advantages left unnoticed 15 years ago?
    I am do material science when I am not too busy making myself sound fast on-line. Carbon fiber has come a long way in the last 15 years.

    One major innovation is that we now better understand cure rates. The cure rates are of course affected by the chemicals used bla bla bla... The faster cure rates that are now available have made it possible for car companies to carbon fiber, early example of this was the Carbon roof on a BMW M series, recent, floor on a Audi A8.

    In the past it was simply not possible to make a Carbon Bike that could be purchased by the masses.

    (The Raleigh version does not count, that was Carbon tubes glued to Ti)

    Quote Originally Posted by windben View Post
    i think you owe this answer to your audience!
    ben
    As for Dave owing you an explanation. REALLY?

  88. #488
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    Seen plenty of cracked aluminum frames...actually one was a Banshee rear swing arm a guy cracked out on the trail in Moab last year.

    Ive destroyed my fair share of aluminum rims bending, cracking, constantly having to true etc etc.

    I purchased a set of ENVE's been on them for a couple of years and haven't had to true them once...broke a couple of spokes but thats about it. Thats riding them hard too...DH trails, jumping etc. Yes they are more expensive but from what I've noticed they are far more durable then aluminum rims, lighter, and stiffer, they hold a line much better then the aluminum rims i was on previously.

    Carbon is more durable than aluminum, lighter, stiffer, better dampening characteristics.

    With that being said there are plenty of killer aluminum bikes and wheels out there too...Im currently on the Turner Burner and its an awesome ride. But if making the switch from an aluminum frame to a carbon frame is in any way similar to my experience of making the switch from aluminum wheels to carbon wheels I may not be looking back.

    On a side note I also play hockey and the perforce gains going from a wooden stick to aluminum stick to a carbon stick are very noticeable. Same can be said with most sports using carbon... the advantages of carbon over other materials is undeniable. You see it everywhere from performance race cars to tennis.

    The performance gains are there, is it going to make you a pro, no. But regardless whatever your ability level is it will or may give you a slight edge to achieve your personal best. Maybe thats what some people are after maybe some not, theres no rule saying you have to ride carbon. For me personally Ive had good experiences with it, it costs more but in the long run If I only have to purchase one set of carbon wheels every few years vs 2 sets of aluminum then the cost factor equals out. I think with aluminum frames and carbon frames they will both last a pretty long time...but If I buy a carbon frame next yes the cost will be a bit more but i prob won't buy another frame for a long time.

    Ive been riding mountain bikes for about 15 years never been on a carbon frame, next bike I want to give it a try.

  89. #489
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    Ben has sidetracked this into a Alloy-vs-Carbon debate. Ask the question in a new thread on the General or Off-Topic forums where it belongs.
    ¡Geaux Tigers! - ¡Visca el Barça!

    "Finer than frog hair!" - Lumberjack

  90. #490
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    Quote Originally Posted by windben View Post
    dave

    thank you for replying i appreciate that, i assume you are busy enough man.
    Im not here to harm turners business, as noted before i rode turners for the past 10 years, and im convinced turner is a great brand.
    My complaints are on your blog because i rode turners and not other brands .

    i am expressing my view of an industry (not only turner but the whole scene nowadays) that is capitalizing on so called "improvements" , not only that, these "improvements" are raising the retail cost of bikes unproportionaly .

    As we are both old timers, im sure you remember that carbon bikes are not new to the industry, i rode a gary fisher sugar 1 carbon bike back in 2002.
    Surprisingly, the advantages of carbon frames were not adopted by bike manufacturers back then and were discovered only lately, i wonder why were carbon advantages left unnoticed 15 years ago?
    a BNIB carbon complete bike with the highest components cost me back then 2K, thats not alot considering the low volumes of carbon bikes back then and inferior production technology.

    In your unbiased reply , you explained why carbon frames are so costly, but you did not explain why should anyone buy a carbon frame , whats the advantage ?
    i think you owe this answer to your audience!
    If you tell them that carbon is stiffer then i will answer back and tell them that carbon breaks while aluminum bends, do you need a good explanation here so i can learn something new too.

    regarding your comments on the evolution of the industry, it is true to a certain extent, mainly suspension technology (adopted from MX) and rear linkage , not 27.5, not carbon and not Boost.

    the only source of unbiased reporting of bikes i know is the linkage design website, where people serious about mtb can learn a thing or two, BTW your RFXv$ looks very promising on the graphs there and i was almost tempted if it werent for the carbon and the price of carbon.

    ben

    There is so much mis-information in this post, im not sure where to start.
    Lets start with the fact the the 2002 GF Sugar 1 was an aluminum bike with carbon seat stays. It was not a full carbon bike nor did it cost $2000. A complete GF Sugar 1 had an MSRP of $3699 in 2002. Just factoring in inflation alone, that kind of money converts to close to $5000 in 2015 dollars. This doesnt factor in ANY of the other multiple reasons why the prices have gone up. Sure hope you didnt form your opinions of carbon based on a not-really-carbon bike from 15 years ago...
    I too owned a carbon bike pre-2000, and it was just as expensive and rode pretty much just as poorly in comparison to todays bikes

    Aluminum bends? Not very well from what I have seen. It most often cracks and when it does it is often catastrophic in nature. Carbon has been proven over the past few years, not just in biking, but in a multitude of varied uses in our daily activites.

    Getting your facts straight before you start on a discussion like this will help out in the future.

  91. #491
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheezwhip View Post
    Ben has sidetracked this into a Alloy-vs-Carbon debate. Ask the question in a new thread on the General or Off-Topic forums where it belongs.
    true true...but Its prob good to address it for a few posts, although it has been beat to death, lets move on


    Would like to hear more REAL LIFE experiences on the Burner vs RFX mainly on climbing/pedaling characteristics and overall bike handling

  92. #492
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmar123 View Post
    true true...but Its prob good to address it for a few posts, although it has been beat to death, lets move on


    Would like to hear more REAL LIFE experiences on the Burner vs RFX mainly on climbing/pedaling characteristics and overall bike handling
    Me too because IF the RFX does outclimb and pedal better than the Burner it may convince me to upgrade early!...

  93. #493
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    RFX felt easier to pedal vs my Burner 3.0

  94. #494
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    I've been riding my Burner the last 2 seasons. It's one of the funnest bikes I've ridden. Especially in Moab, St. George, Fruita type terrain. I had the previous RFX, 5spot, 2 Sultans, and the 27.5 Burner. I am going to dump the Burner for the RFX to widen the gap between my Burner and Ripley. I will give a comparison as soon as I get my RFX.

  95. #495
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    Has anybody who was lucky enough to get in on the first RFX run recieve there frames yet? Wanna see some pics! I have to wait to Jan to see my rfx....gonna be hard!

  96. #496
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    There is so much mis-information in this post, im not sure where to start.
    Lets start with the fact the the 2002 GF Sugar 1 was an aluminum bike with carbon seat stays. It was not a full carbon bike nor did it cost $2000. A complete GF Sugar 1 had an MSRP of $3699 in 2002. Just factoring in inflation alone, that kind of money converts to close to $5000 in 2015 dollars. This doesnt factor in ANY of the other multiple reasons why the prices have gone up. Sure hope you didnt form your opinions of carbon based on a not-really-carbon bike from 15 years ago...
    I too owned a carbon bike pre-2000, and it was just as expensive and rode pretty much just as poorly in comparison to todays bikes
    Not to mention that it had v-brakes. What a crock.

  97. #497
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    I am in the first run, should be along pretty soon. When I get it I will be sure to post some pics and detailed ride reports. Having been on a Nomad 3 for a year and a half and having ridden the HD3. I will have two of the closest competitor models to compare against. My 2011 5 Spot is still the best handling bike out of the three mentioned. I always said that if it had an inch more travel it would be perfect. I am excited to get back on a Turner dw RFX.

  98. #498
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedster759 View Post
    I am in the first run, should be along pretty soon. When I get it I will be sure to post some pics and detailed ride reports. Having been on a Nomad 3 for a year and a half and having ridden the HD3. I will have two of the closest competitor models to compare against. My 2011 5 Spot is still the best handling bike out of the three mentioned. I always said that if it had an inch more travel it would be perfect. I am excited to get back on a Turner dw RFX.
    Congrats on the new bike, I can't wait to hear the comparisons. I've been on an HD3 for 4 months now, sick bike but I'm very curious to read more ride reports on the RFX. Might also try to snag a demo ride with dirt merchant bikes later this Fall ...

  99. #499
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    Aluminum bends? Not very well from what I have seen. It most often cracks and when it does it is often catastrophic in nature. Carbon has been proven over the past few years.
    To further add to Carbon's credibility, Santa Cruz has some nice videos online that show the strength of carbon when impacted. It fares much better than alu BTW. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xreZdUBqpJs

  100. #500
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    Honestly I've bought carbon frames recently purely for the weight savings. I do not feel any difference in compliance / ride on the trails. I've broken plenty of aluminium frames and seen people break carbon ones. I've owned 5 Turners, A Rune and currently have a Chilcotin and Mach 6. I do feel a perceptible difference between 27.5 and 26 inch wheels Not sure what Windben is on about at all.

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    My RFX frame has arrived in the UK,just needs building.Shame I had no camera with me.

  102. #502
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just J View Post
    Me too because IF the RFX does outclimb and pedal better than the Burner it may convince me to upgrade early!...
    I agree with the others on this. I thought the RFX climbed at least as well as the Burner. If I was in the market for a 140-160 do all trail/AM bike it would be an easy decision to pick the RFX over the Burner. All the advantages of 160 travel, stiff carbon frame, and more updated geometry with very little if any down side.

    (Sorry if this kills Burner sales, Dave, but I suspect this has already happened to some extent..... just like the Burner killed 5 spot sales).
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  103. #503
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    I love my Burner but having read everything on here and other places I've got an RFX coming in January!

  104. #504
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    I am just wandering. Anyome here upsizing due to the short reach numbers?

  105. #505
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    I still cannot figure out people 'upsizing' or 'downsizing' to get their preferred cockpit setup. Get the frame that is the right size, and tweak stem/bar length and saddle position for the rest.

  106. #506
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrexpink View Post
    My RFX frame has arrived in the UK,just needs building.Shame I had no camera with me.
    https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...d8&oe=56C5D646

  107. #507
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    In true Homer form.....a red couch! Most excellent. Beautiful looking frame.

  108. #508
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    I still cannot figure out people 'upsizing' or 'downsizing' to get their preferred cockpit setup. Get the frame that is the right size, and tweak stem/bar length and saddle position for the rest.
    It's about overall ride. Not just the cockpit. I know a couple of riders who own 2 different sizes of the same frame. One more playfull and another more stable. Used based on the application and specific needs.
    Also, one manufacturers Medium can easily be anothers Large or even XL size based on the reach/TT numbers.

  109. #509
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    Certainly with the shorter ST on the RFX, as compared to the bikes in the past, if someone is between sizes they can go up a size if the 'reach' is not what is desired. But I have to share again the findings of our demos.. So far, 100% of the riders demo riding the RFX who are between sizes or even 'just right' IMO, have gone DOWN to the more playful size, 100% of the time. In every instance of a 'tweener' making a demo reservation, I first assign them to the bigger size, but gave the rider an opportunity later in the event to try the smaller size and in EVERY case from San Diego to Moab, no one has preferred that the front wheel be any further out in front than it needs to be.

    Whether that has to do with being able to properly weight the front wheel to make the turn, or the opposite? Being able to get further Behind the front end to make one feel comfortable on the steeper sections..... maybe both. But this I do know, not one of the demo locations were at a bike park or flow trail system. No high berms of consistent radii gouged in the dirt, no specified pitches on jump faces or landings or runs.

  110. #510
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    I still cannot figure out people 'upsizing' or 'downsizing' to get their preferred cockpit setup. Get the frame that is the right size, and tweak stem/bar length and saddle position for the rest.
    You don't tweak saddle position for fit. The saddle needs to be in your correct position relative to the BB. As for stem and bar there is only so much you can do before you the stem ends up longer than is suitable. The move to shorter seat tubes means that if you are in between sizes the larger will still accept a decent dropper post.
    Formerly Travis Bickle

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  111. #511
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    PS, I may be currently Turnerless but I'm still riding my red leather couch.
    Formerly Travis Bickle

    Team Robot. "modulation is code for “I suck at brake control.” Here’s a free tip: get better."

  112. #512
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes View Post
    Certainly with the shorter ST on the RFX, as compared to the bikes in the past, if someone is between sizes they can go up a size if the 'reach' is not what is desired. But I have to share again the findings of our demos.. So far, 100% of the riders demo riding the RFX who are between sizes or even 'just right' IMO, have gone DOWN to the more playful size, 100% of the time. In every instance of a 'tweener' making a demo reservation, I first assign them to the bigger size, but gave the rider an opportunity later in the event to try the smaller size and in EVERY case from San Diego to Moab, no one has preferred that the front wheel be any further out in front than it needs to be.

    Whether that has to do with being able to properly weight the front wheel to make the turn, or the opposite? Being able to get further Behind the front end to make one feel comfortable on the steeper sections..... maybe both. But this I do know, not one of the demo locations were at a bike park or flow trail system. No high berms of consistent radii gouged in the dirt, no specified pitches on jump faces or landings or runs.
    I got to say this was exactly my experience at Interbike. XL was a perfect pedaling platform but I wasn't as confident jumping it or descending steep sections.

  113. #513
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    I still cannot figure out people 'upsizing' or 'downsizing' to get their preferred cockpit setup. Get the frame that is the right size, and tweak stem/bar length and saddle position for the rest.
    So if not the reach/tt measurement, how do you determine what makes a frame the "right" size?

    IMO there's a reason your handlebars are set in place and the seat is on a post that slides up and down. Get the frame with the amount of reach you're after so you can put the handlebars in the right place with the stem length you prefer, and so long as you've got enough room to run the length of dropper post you require then you're good to go (and if you don't then start looking at other frames).

    Conventional wisdom of buying frames based on seat tube length is nonsense in the mountain bike world...

  114. #514
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    I know a couple people here have mentioned it already but any comparison ride reports between the RFX and HD3 would be much appreciated.

  115. #515
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    Quote Originally Posted by jon123 View Post
    I know a couple people here have mentioned it already but any comparison ride reports between the RFX and HD3 would be much appreciated.
    HD3 was more comfortable (softer), RFX was faster/more efficient,

    Both bikes were set up by factory reps.

    HD3 is a very close second choice for me, both great bikes

  116. #516
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    Quote Originally Posted by renoirbud View Post
    HD3 was more comfortable (softer), RFX was faster/more efficient,

    Both bikes were set up by factory reps.

    HD3 is a very close second choice for me, both great bikes
    Thank you.
    I'm liking the sound of faster/more efficient as I'm looking for more of a trail bike feel anyway.
    The HD3 is revered for how well it climbs. Would you say the RFX is even better?

  117. #517
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    Fact: the bar centre point location is the same for a Large RFX with 35mm long stem VS a Med RFX with a 55mm stem.
    So - up sizing makes sense if you wish to run a short stem, but still have the same reach to bar centre that you would have from the stock Turner build.
    But I would love to be able to test the difference in real life as DT has stated from their demo experience. I'd like to know if these tweeners changed stem lengths? Or was it 50mm on both Lgr and Med?

    Attachment 1025133
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Carbon RFX Is Here-untitled-2.jpg  


  118. #518
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    Quote Originally Posted by deanopatoni View Post
    Fact: the bar centre point location is the same for a Large RFX with 35mm long stem VS a Med RFX with a 55mm stem.
    So - up sizing makes sense if you wish to run a short stem, but still have the same reach to bar centre that you would have from the stock Turner build.
    But I would love to be able to test the difference in real life as DT has stated from their demo experience. I'd like to know if these tweeners changed stem lengths? Or was it 50mm on both Lgr and Med?

    Attachment 1025133
    You are right. If the tweeners didnt change the stems and adjusted the bars to have the same Seat/BB/bars dimensions the fit would indeed have been different.
    It seems, DT favors the short reach + long stem for his riding/bikes, which somehow goes against the current "trends"
    To be honest, I have not seen many 6" 27.5 bikes set with a -6° / 80mm stems like DTs
    No doubt he knows what he prefers, but the other guys in the industry on the opposite side of the argument do too.
    Last edited by jazzanova; 10-29-2015 at 10:02 AM.

  119. #519
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes View Post
    Certainly with the shorter ST on the RFX, as compared to the bikes in the past, if someone is between sizes they can go up a size if the 'reach' is not what is desired. But I have to share again the findings of our demos.. So far, 100% of the riders demo riding the RFX who are between sizes or even 'just right' IMO, have gone DOWN to the more playful size, 100% of the time. In every instance of a 'tweener' making a demo reservation, I first assign them to the bigger size, but gave the rider an opportunity later in the event to try the smaller size and in EVERY case from San Diego to Moab, no one has preferred that the front wheel be any further out in front than it needs to be.

    Whether that has to do with being able to properly weight the front wheel to make the turn, or the opposite? Being able to get further Behind the front end to make one feel comfortable on the steeper sections..... maybe both. But this I do know, not one of the demo locations were at a bike park or flow trail system. No high berms of consistent radii gouged in the dirt, no specified pitches on jump faces or landings or runs.
    DT, thanks for the input.
    The valid question here is, were the 2 sizes bikes for the tweeners fitted with different stem sizes?
    I think not, since you mentioned that riders felt more comfortable on steeper DH sections on smaller bikes because they could get further behind the front.
    If the longer bike has a shorter stem, their BB to handlebar position would be the same and therefore they would be able to get behind the front in the same way...
    Also, the front wheel would be further in the front, which should also help with DH confidence...

  120. #520
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    Quote Originally Posted by David R View Post
    So if not the reach/tt measurement, how do you determine what makes a frame the "right" size?
    Wheelbase tells you a lot more about how a bike will handle. Reach measurements just tell you how much leverage you'll have over that wheelbase

    Far too many people are definitely basing bike fit solely on climbing comfort. Which is fine for things aren't basically mini dh bikes. But then you end up with a situation like madamfunk is describing. And it's not like sitting just a tad more upright for climbs is UNcomfortable.

    The thing with shorter reach measurements is that you have a lot more leverage when you yank the bike up on the back wheel since you're not pulling as long of a lever up front. And I don't mean manuals, I'm talking about pulling the bike around tight corners on your rear wheel or just unweighting the front to run into things.

    Everyone seems to think there's a singular ideal reach measurement that must be adhered to, and that if you go with a smaller bike, you need to go with a longer stem. Stem length affects handling so much, it's more of a performance thing, than a fit thing IMO. Long before 50mm and shorter were the cool thing, plenty of people just put them on their bikes......not getting a different frame.....just putting a shorter stem on the same one you rode with a 70mm stem. It's fine. It actually makes the bike more stable without losing nimbleness......because the wheelbase stays the same.
    STRAVA: Enabling dorks everywhere to get trails shut down........ all for the sake of a race on the internet.

  121. #521
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    DT I have a question regarding the geo.
    How is the STA calculated?
    I believe its the effective STA on your geometry chart at 73.5°.
    Is it measuread at stack height?
    If yes does the actual STA changes with different frame sizes, since the stack is also different and the effective STA is constant on all sizes?

  122. #522
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    Jazz, this is not about climbing and MY preferences, they are irrelevant. Sorry I ever posted my more trail oriented build to add confusion.

    I am not a video star with all the cool moves, slaying berms and manualing thru cobble sections. But I am a trained observer and interpreter, and the rider preferences I am seeing is not what is being chattered about as de rigueur frame designs. This is my point.

    This is not really about seat to hand fit either (stretch and droop?) , that should be controlled by stem length. Stems are not fashion accessories, their range of lengths and rises make it possible to totally dial your back/neck/ arm angles, and this is about comfort, not looking cool. And yes Kidd, that would be for the climbs, as someone rarely is going to have a pain in the neck/back on the descent. But if a longer stem makes you feel better tell your friends to piss off when they harass you. A stem that works for you is not going to ruin your bikes handling, but it will make it more/less comfortable throughout the ride.

    No, these rants are about front wheel, the further away it is, the harder it is to control. Deano, putting a shorter stem on a longer reach bike does NOTHING to put more weight on the front wheel and make it handle better, it is the opposite and one is left sitting a longer way behind the front wheel. There is only ONE way to make this much blabbed about design work, stand way FORWARD until your face is over the crown, then shread like a video star. I don't see many of them types. Or one could go to a ride centre where the berms make the turn for you, then any bike will make the turn even a DHR with front wheel in the next county. Yes, longer is more stable, but it also requires more commitment (face time) to the front wheel to make it come around in a turn. A 66* HA puts the front wheel far enough out there as well as mechanical trail generated stability to be plenty stable at speed, but a reasonable front center will create the flickable feel it seems many riders would rather have.

  123. #523
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes View Post
    someone rarely is going to have a pain in the neck/back on the descent.
    Hey I'm skilled at a full range of degenerative pain in both directions


    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes View Post
    No, these rants are about front wheel, the further away it is, the harder it is to control. Deano, putting a shorter stem on a longer reach bike does NOTHING to put more weight on the front wheel and make it handle better, it is the opposite and one is left sitting a longer way behind the front wheel. There is only ONE way to make this much blabbed about design work, stand way FORWARD until your face is over the crown, then shread like a video star. I don't see many of them types. Or one could go to a ride centre where the berms make the turn for you, then any bike will make the turn even a DHR with front wheel in the next county. Yes, longer is more stable, but it also requires more commitment (face time) to the front wheel to make it come around in a turn. A 66* HA puts the front wheel far enough out there as well as mechanical trail generated stability to be plenty stable at speed, but a reasonable front center will create the flickable feel it seems many riders would rather have.
    ^And this, is exactly what I was talking about. It's actually really funny to watch a bunch of videos lately with people riding with 90% of their weight on the front wheel and just letting the back bounce around because they can't weight it any more. I'm with you completely on that.

    And yeah with 65-66 degree headangles, and 160+mm travel forks, the idea of ALSO getting a frame with a significantly longer front end is nuts to me.
    STRAVA: Enabling dorks everywhere to get trails shut down........ all for the sake of a race on the internet.

  124. #524
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    Upset wheelbases

    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo View Post
    Wheelbase tells you a lot more about how a bike will handle. Reach measurements just tell you how much leverage you'll have over that wheelbase

    """surely, you know how Dave does not like to talk about WB? won't even list them in the specs. i've been severely reamed for even asking about them."""

    Far too many people are definitely basing bike fit solely on climbing comfort. Which is fine for things aren't basically mini dh bikes. But then you end up with a situation like madamfunk is describing. And it's not like sitting just a tad more upright for climbs is UNcomfortable.

    The thing with shorter reach measurements is that you have a lot more leverage when you yank the bike up on the back wheel since you're not pulling as long of a lever up front. And I don't mean manuals, I'm talking about pulling the bike around tight corners on your rear wheel or just unweighting the front to run into things.

    Everyone seems to think there's a singular ideal reach measurement that must be adhered to, and that if you go with a smaller bike, you need to go with a longer stem. Stem length affects handling so much, it's more of a performance thing, than a fit thing IMO. Long before 50mm and shorter were the cool thing, plenty of people just put them on their bikes......not getting a different frame.....just putting a shorter stem on the same one you rode with a 70mm stem. It's fine. It actually makes the bike more stable without losing nimbleness......because the wheelbase stays the same.
    ====
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  125. #525
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhodge View Post
    """surely, you know how Dave does not like to talk about WB? won't even list them in the specs. i've been severely reamed for even asking about them."""
    I know, that's part of the reason I keep bringing it up.

    But how you can discuss how a bike behaves without addressing the two contact points with the dirt seems crazy to me.

    And they are listed on the DHR.
    STRAVA: Enabling dorks everywhere to get trails shut down........ all for the sake of a race on the internet.

  126. #526
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo View Post
    I know that's part of the reason I keep bringing it up.


    And they are listed on the DHR.
    Yeah WB concerns are hugely overrated...

  127. #527
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    Thanks. I'm learning so much in this sport I'm so new to.


    Here, I found your new stem.


    STRAVA: Enabling dorks everywhere to get trails shut down........ all for the sake of a race on the internet.

  128. #528
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo View Post
    Thanks. I'm learning so much in this sport I'm so new to.


    Here, I found your new stem.


    NP.
    I have seen it. Nice invention.

  129. #529
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    Carbon RFX Is Here

    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes View Post
    ...Deano, putting a shorter stem on a longer reach bike does NOTHING to put more weight on the front wheel and make it handle better, it is the opposite and one is left sitting a longer way behind the front wheel..... A 66* HA puts the front wheel far enough out there as well as mechanical trail generated stability to be plenty stable at speed, but a reasonable front center will create the flickable feel it seems many riders would rather have.
    Thanks for your comments DT. These are good points, and I accept that I could draw all the diagrams in the world, but nothing beats a test ride. For the purpose of trying 27.5 and a larger frame than my current med 5Spot, I tested a friends medium Lapierre 327 that shares (almost) the same stack, reach, angles as a Large RFX, but a WB closer to a med Turner. The cockpit pretty comfortable to me, the wheels rolled better than my 5Spot, but the suspension was subpar compared to DWLinks.

    I do have reservations about upsizing, primarily being increased stack height, and wheelbase length.

  130. #530
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo View Post
    .

    The thing with shorter reach measurements is that you have a lot more leverage when you yank the bike up on the back wheel since you're not pulling as long of a lever up front. And I don't mean manuals, I'm talking about pulling the bike around tight corners on your rear wheel or just unweighting the front to run into things.
    ^^ good comments Kidwoo ^^

    This is something I need to consider.

  131. #531
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    Quote Originally Posted by jon123 View Post
    I know a couple people here have mentioned it already but any comparison ride reports between the RFX and HD3 would be much appreciated.
    I've ridden them both. Here's my response from a similar question in the AM forum.

    Quote Originally Posted by LarsF View Post
    How would you compare the HD3 with the RFX?
    The HD3 and RFX are like two brothers from a different mother. The numbers are very similar and they rode alike as well. The suspension on the HD3 I rode was dialed and it had the Ibis wide carbon rims which gave it a more controlled plush feel on the rocky descents but fit, climbing, and handling were eerily similar.... and like I've said elsewhere, with the right suspension set up, I think the RFX would have felt just as good and maybe even a little more competent on the gnarly descents.

    I think it comes down to looks, brand loyalty, and local dealer support/pricing when picking between these two. I liked them both a lot.

    I agree with renoirbud in that the HD3 was a bit more comfortable (softer) and the RFX faster/more efficient. I thought the difference was mainly in suspension and tire/wheel set up though. Don't know for sure without trying some different shocks/forks and suspension tuning etc, but I believe the RFX could be made to feel as plush/soft as the HD3.
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  132. #532
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo View Post
    I know, that's part of the reason I keep bringing it up.

    But how you can discuss how a bike behaves without addressing the two contact points with the dirt seems crazy to me.

    And they are listed on the DHR.
    the DHR only? what's up widat?
    Last edited by nhodge; 10-29-2015 at 07:24 PM.
    breezy shade

  133. #533
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    Because people who know descending asked for it.


    And speaking of which, whasup wit da equal signs?
    STRAVA: Enabling dorks everywhere to get trails shut down........ all for the sake of a race on the internet.

  134. #534
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo View Post
    Because people who know descending asked for it.


    And speaking of which, whasup wit da equal signs?
    =signs? what = signs
    breezy shade

  135. #535
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    Climbing better is a tough thing to qualify. I am sure that the RFX moves out and responds to pedal input faster, it felt like I could spin a faster gear with the same effort. I have not done a long climb back to back on both. But when I climbed out of Mag 7 on the HD3 I was wishing that I was on the RFX instead. On the last day of Outerbike, my last ride was on an RFX and coming back from Killer 'B' , I never thought about wanting to be on any other bike.

  136. #536
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    Carbon RFX Is Here

    Jazzaova - how wide open are your trails versus tight twisty with switchbacks and punchy steep ups and downs etc? I don't think the RFX is as short in reach as you are implying. I have a Mac six which is shorter and although I would like the seat tube slightly steeper and a little more reach I am glad it is not as long as some of these so-called new school bikes. They would be too much to manhandle for the terrain I ride. Plus with these new school bikes you have to be pushing them as hard as possible all the time to reap the benefits. Again, I just don't ride like that all the time

  137. #537
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo View Post
    And they are listed on the DHR.
    I take that back. Apparently there's no such thing as a DHR anymore.
    STRAVA: Enabling dorks everywhere to get trails shut down........ all for the sake of a race on the internet.

  138. #538
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    It wasn't that long ago the frames were being blown out and of course now that I am in the market for a DH bike and was going to see about a DHR yesterday I couldn't see anything on the Turner website. Are they all gone ?

  139. #539
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    I would assume so.

    If you're serious, I know someone who might have one used. They're around and completely devalued so I'm sure you can still find one. It just might not be directly from turner.

    The last model is/was a little long in the tooth so I can understand dropping it. Not without a replacement though. Kind of a bummer.
    STRAVA: Enabling dorks everywhere to get trails shut down........ all for the sake of a race on the internet.

  140. #540
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    Srsly?! Dafuq...
    ¡Geaux Tigers! - ¡Visca el Barça!

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  141. #541
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilks View Post
    It wasn't that long ago the frames were being blown out and of course now that I am in the market for a DH bike and was going to see about a DHR yesterday I couldn't see anything on the Turner website. Are they all gone ?
    Call Greg;

    Depending on size he might have something for you.

    I just got my large at the end of September.

  142. #542
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilks View Post
    It wasn't that long ago the frames were being blown out and of course now that I am in the market for a DH bike and was going to see about a DHR yesterday I couldn't see anything on the Turner website. Are they all gone ?
    I'm selling my large '08 Highline with a 888 upfront, if that interests you at all.

  143. #543
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    Its now November, anyone got your rfx yet?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    When trails gets tougher, Just stand up and deliver.

  144. #544
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullit_cn View Post
    Its now November, anyone got your rfx yet?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Some have... But no mass postings on red couches yet.

    ¡Geaux Tigers! - ¡Visca el Barça!

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  145. #545
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    Lucky guys, they must have been enjoying the rides?


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    When trails gets tougher, Just stand up and deliver.

  146. #546
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    No typhoons in the eastern Pacific so that's the good news. Bad news is getting through customs?

  147. #547
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhodge View Post
    =signs? what = signs

    Norm, give me back my Saber! LOL
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  148. #548
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    I have given in to the RFX-C.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  149. #549
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    I have given in to the RFX-C.

    got fork plans yet?

    wanna buy my Avalanched Marz 55 RC3 Ti?
    breezy shade

  150. #550
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhodge View Post
    got fork plans yet?

    wanna buy my Avalanched Marz 55 RC3 Ti?
    I'm getting it with the 27.5 pike, and I already have an avalanched-pike, which will be easy enough for me to switch internals, since avalanche only did the pistons, then I have a 29er DVO to sell and a 29er pike to sell.

    I gotta sell more than buy! The 55 is a little heavier chassis than I'm looking for. I plan to build the RFX pretty light, mostly like my E29 is right now, only real difference is I'll use brass nipples for the rear wheel.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  151. #551
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    I'm getting it with the 27.5 pike, and I already have an avalanched-pike, which will be easy enough for me to switch internals, since avalanche only did the pistons, then I have a 29er DVO to sell and a 29er pike to sell.


    """i was only half serious, but i'll let a friend know about your forks for sale"""


    I gotta sell more than buy! The 55 is a little heavier chassis than I'm looking for. I plan to build the RFX pretty light, mostly like my E29 is right now, only real difference is I'll use brass nipples for the rear wheel.
    looking forward to your opinion on the frame
    breezy shade

  152. #552
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    Went for a ride today.....6 mile logging road climb up to about 3000' elevation. The RFX climbs really well, but its when pointed downhill that I was really amazed. The traction is great, the rear suspension is very supple at the start and then ramps up nicely. I found myself seeking out the roots and more tech lines just because I was having so much fun. This is the first bike I have ridden where felt instantly comfortable. I rode a couple of the more gnarly trails and the RFX handled it with ease.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Carbon RFX Is Here-img_0011.jpg  


  153. #553
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    Nice bike speedster!
    Yamaha & Paiste, weapons of mass percussion

  154. #554
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    Has anybody in the second batch queue received word on shipping dates?

  155. #555
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    Mid December is what I was told.

  156. #556
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    Bummer, last I was told (couple weeks ago) was "end of the month."

  157. #557
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    Beautiful bike. How is the frame stiffness?

    Thanks,

    -Sp

    Quote Originally Posted by speedster759 View Post
    Went for a ride today.....6 mile logging road climb up to about 3000' elevation. The RFX climbs really well, but its when pointed downhill that I was really amazed. The traction is great, the rear suspension is very supple at the start and then ramps up nicely. I found myself seeking out the roots and more tech lines just because I was having so much fun. This is the first bike I have ridden where felt instantly comfortable. I rode a couple of the more gnarly trails and the RFX handled it with ease.

  158. #558
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    Quote Originally Posted by whoda*huck View Post
    Bummer, last I was told (couple weeks ago) was "end of the month."

    Two weeks out.

  159. #559
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    whatever you hear, add a month.

  160. #560
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    Frame stiffness is great. I was impressed by how stout everything is on this bike. I lined it up next to my old bike and it makes the Nomad 3 top and down tubes look tiny. Turner did a great job of designing this. Its a very controlled handling bike. Its not overly pogo stick stiff, and where you want it to track straight in rough chundery stuff and hard g out corners its perfect.

  161. #561
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    Need to see more pics of everybody's builds. January is to far away!

  162. #562
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    Just received my frame and fork today (2016 Lyrik rct3). The frame is stout and light! Looks so much better in person. Looking forward to building it up and dialing it in this weekend.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Carbon RFX Is Here-rfx.jpg  

    Carbon RFX Is Here-rfx2.jpg  


  163. #563
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    Sweet! Did you order the Lyric from Turner direct?

  164. #564
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    Quote Originally Posted by etacata View Post
    Sweet! Did you order the Lyric from Turner direct?
    I got the upgrade kit with Lyrik through Dirt Merchant. Thought there was going to be a delay but the Lyrik arrived ahead of schedule. Many thanks to Jeff @Dirt Merchant. It feels quite a bit burlier. Looking forward to seeing how it compares to the Pike.

  165. #565
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    Is that medium or a small?
    STRAVA: Enabling dorks everywhere to get trails shut down........ all for the sake of a race on the internet.

  166. #566
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    Quote Originally Posted by beefmagic View Post
    Just received my frame and fork today (2016 Lyrik rct3). The frame is stout and light! Looks so much better in person. Looking forward to building it up and dialing it in this weekend.

    Looking forward to this! I would love to see a few actual measurements too. (Guessing it's a small frame) actual toptube and stand over.
    Yamaha & Paiste, weapons of mass percussion

  167. #567
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo View Post
    Is that medium or a small?
    It's a small.

    Quote Originally Posted by drumstix View Post
    Looking forward to this! I would love to see a few actual measurements too. (Guessing it's a small frame) actual toptube and stand over.
    I'll try to get some actual measurements tonight. Reach numbers are a little shorter compared to the 26 endorphin that I've been riding. Might not make a difference once I'm riding it though.

  168. #568
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    Any one know of any UK stockists of RFX in GX build?

  169. #569
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    Quote Originally Posted by drumstix View Post
    Looking forward to this! I would love to see a few actual measurements too. (Guessing it's a small frame) actual toptube and stand over.
    Did some checking and Turner measurements are pretty spot on. Actual top tube is 22". Standover is pretty accurate to their site : 28.8". That's a few inches out from the edge of the saddle. If you measure at the lowest point of the top tube, it's 26.25".

    Here are some shots to show you how burly the top tube junction and links are. My scale is broken but I'm guessing it weighs around 28.5-29lbs. Most of the parts are transferred over from my Chilcotin which weighed 29.8lbs. Will get an accurate weight in the future, but it feels solid and light. Buildup went smooth. No hassles with the PF30 BB (it's my first experience with one) and the cable guides are really simple, clean, and genius. Not sure if I want to 3M tape the hell out of this work of art or just say f* it and ride.

    Unfortunately, due to the non-stop rain here, I haven't had test it on the trails yet. Hopefully later this weekend I'll be able to get some time on it.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Carbon RFX Is Here-rfx-non-drive-side.jpg  

    Carbon RFX Is Here-rfx-headtube.jpg  

    Carbon RFX Is Here-rfx-link.jpg  


  170. #570
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    Quote Originally Posted by beefmagic View Post
    Unfortunately, due to the non-stop rain here, I haven't had test it on the trails yet. Hopefully later this weekend I'll be able to get some time on it.
    It likes a little mud

    Carbon RFX Is Here-2015-11-27-08.02.30.jpg

  171. #571
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dude! View Post
    It likes a little mud

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Yeah! Wondering if you were going to pick up the rfx. I thought the geo numbers seemed the closest to the uprising. Curious to hear your thoughts on the rfx vs. insurgent vs. uprising.

  172. #572
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    I don't think you'll get the build kit in the UK at the moment, it's not listed on the importers website. Looks to be frame only.

  173. #573
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    @uni
    I've seen that on the silverfish site. Interestingly it looks like you can buy direct from them.
    I'd buy direct from turner but am wondering about vat and duty and how I pay for it. I'm at my budget converting $ to £ exchangevrate on gx build I'm Way over if I need to pay an additional 35% in uk taxes. I'd bad better off flying over and returning with it.
    I'll need to understand more about how that process of buying direct works and costs compared to sourcing all from uk stock (maybe get some deals in Black Friday sales).

  174. #574
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    c4ris

    I don't think silverfish deal direct unless it's ex demo or clearance product but I could be wrong.

    I've bought direct from Turner before and on the face of it you are getting a good deal but shipping, VAT and import duty do add up to closer to the UK retail. What made it worthwhile for me was trading in my old 5 spot which you can't do in the UK and the guys at Turner were great to deal with on this.

    If I go for an RFX it'll be from my local shop.

  175. #575
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dude! View Post
    It likes a little mud

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Also looking forward to your review and comparisons.

  176. #576
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    Quote Originally Posted by beefmagic View Post
    Did some checking and Turner measurements are pretty spot on. Actual top tube is 22". Standover is pretty accurate to their site : 28.8". That's a few inches out from the edge of the saddle. If you measure at the lowest point of the top tube, it's 26.25".

    Here are some shots to show you how burly the top tube junction and links are. My scale is broken but I'm guessing it weighs around 28.5-29lbs. Most of the parts are transferred over from my Chilcotin which weighed 29.8lbs. Will get an accurate weight in the future, but it feels solid and light. Buildup went smooth. No hassles with the PF30 BB (it's my first experience with one) and the cable guides are really simple, clean, and genius. Not sure if I want to 3M tape the hell out of this work of art or just say f* it and ride.

    Unfortunately, due to the non-stop rain here, I haven't had test it on the trails yet. Hopefully later this weekend I'll be able to get some time on it.

    Thank you! This is just about perfect for me. My last RFX was a medium with just about 22" eff TT length.
    I just bought a small Endo based on knolly's specs but looks like it's not close. Listed at 22.5 and from what I can see it's barely 21-21.5.
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  177. #577
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    Quote Originally Posted by uni View Post
    c4ris

    I don't think silverfish deal direct unless it's ex demo or clearance product but I could be wrong.

    I've bought direct from Turner before and on the face of it you are getting a good deal but shipping, VAT and import duty do add up to closer to the UK retail. What made it worthwhile for me was trading in my old 5 spot which you can't do in the UK and the guys at Turner were great to deal with on this.

    If I go for an RFX it'll be from my local shop.
    Thanks uni
    Did you pay the taxes at the time of purchase or did you receive notification from customs or ups and paid after the notification? Or did you have to pay at the time if delivery to the delivery guy?
    It'll be a pain if I have it delivered to work and they get a demand for £1200 before delivery as they'll just reject it & I may not know anything about it.

    If I had a local bike shop that sold turners if just buy from there too.

  178. #578
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    Quote Originally Posted by drumstix View Post
    Thank you! This is just about perfect for me. My last RFX was a medium with just about 22" eff TT length.
    I just bought a small Endo based on knolly's specs but looks like it's not close. Listed at 22.5 and from what I can see it's barely 21-21.5.
    Drumstix, how tall are you? The Endo 26 has roughly the same ETT as the RFXC (22.4 vs. 22.5 respectively). Knolly's seat tubes are forward from the BB hence the shorter actual measurement. If the small endo is too small for you I suspect the small RFX will feel the same. I have a Endo 26 and the reach is about a quarter inch longer than the RFXC. I'm 5'3" barefoot with a longer torso comparatively and it fits me very well, even another 1/2" of reach would be fine.

  179. #579
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    Quote Originally Posted by c4ris View Post
    Thanks uni
    Did you pay the taxes at the time of purchase or did you receive notification from customs or ups and paid after the notification? Or did you have to pay at the time if delivery to the delivery guy?
    It'll be a pain if I have it delivered to work and they get a demand for £1200 before delivery as they'll just reject it & I may not know anything about it.

    If I had a local bike shop that sold turners if just buy from there too.
    If I remember I was sent a bill after I received the frame to settle the taxes but I think it depends on how it is sent i.e. UPS v US postal and they could hold it at customs until it is paid for but I'm no expert on this. Drop me a PM and I can give you some more info outside this thread.

  180. #580
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    Quote Originally Posted by beefmagic View Post
    Drumstix, how tall are you? The Endo 26 has roughly the same ETT as the RFXC (22.4 vs. 22.5 respectively). Knolly's seat tubes are forward from the BB hence the shorter actual measurement. If the small endo is too small for you I suspect the small RFX will feel the same. I have a Endo 26 and the reach is about a quarter inch longer than the RFXC. I'm 5'3" barefoot with a longer torso comparatively and it fits me very well, even another 1/2" of reach would be fine.
    Barefoot just a few hairs over 5'6". Interesting about the effective TT actual measurement. I probably couldn't get a real look at that unless built up. Currently, sitting waiting on parts lol. The frame is the new 27.5 model.
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  181. #581
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    Quote Originally Posted by drumstix View Post
    Barefoot just a few hairs over 5'6". Interesting about the effective TT actual measurement. I probably couldn't get a real look at that unless built up. Currently, sitting waiting on parts lol. The frame is the new 27.5 model.
    You may have already crunched the numbers but the medium RFX and small Endo 27.5 have the same reach. At your height I would go for a medium RFX. A small 27.5 Endo seems like a good size for you, but I guess it depends on preferences, trails, riding style, etc. I'm running a 50mm stem on the small RFX and I wouldn't want to go any longer. I'd even prefer another 1/2" of reach so I could run a 35mm stem (my preference for handling) but that's for another thread! You'd have to at least run a 70mm stem on the small at your height to be comfortable, in my opinion. The new Endo looks killer and I may have gone that route if I didn't already have a 26 version.

  182. #582
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    I am convinced Knollyy's ride smaller than the numbers suggest. I have a medium Chilcotin and ETT is 23" when I measure it but specs say 23.5". Great bikes regardless.

  183. #583
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    ^^^thanks for your thoughts and time guys. Beef, I will be looking forward to your ride review.
    My original plans of adding a Warden type bike to the stable will most likely now be changed for a RFX now. And probably a medium. Most of the parts I have will be perfect for the new turner.
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  184. #584
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    Knolly's radically sloped seat tube makes the TT stretch out a lot as the saddle goes up. For shorter riders this means less TT and more for taller riders. It's hard to guesstimate. RFX has a tradition seat tube which is what I'm used to and gives me a good idea on fit just from the numbers.
    Formerly Travis Bickle

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  185. #585
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    Knolly's radically sloped seat tube makes the TT stretch out a lot as the saddle goes up. For shorter riders this means less TT and more for taller riders. It's hard to guesstimate. RFX has a tradition seat tube which is what I'm used to and gives me a good idea on fit just from the numbers.


    I believe this is my problem with the Endo. All my past bikes were turners mostly and my so called default sizing system has been the real effective top tube. Guess I need to change with the times. Lol
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  186. #586
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    This is my first time making a review in writing and I am not an expert or profesional either. I will try my best though to express what I feel and experience on board the RFX V4 the first time.

    Rider info;
    80kg RTR
    5'8" tall with 32" inseam

    Bike Setup;

    Medium RFX
    Total build weight is 30lbs
    Cockpit: 50mm stem + 800mm wide bar + 25mm spacer under the stem
    73cm BB centre-to-top of saddle height
    fork: Fox36 float 60psi, +1 click LSC, +5 clicks HSC, +4 clicks Rebound (all clicks from full open)
    (max travel used is 143mm) I tried the recommended 71psi but it feels hard, while the 50psi meet the required sag, it feels a bit too soft so I settle halfway to 60psi to start with.
    Shock: Monarch RC3 185psi (this is the first shock in a Turner lineup that I didn't less 30-40psi pressure on my RTR weight), 30% sag, +6 clicks rebound, min compression setting (max travel used is 48mm)
    Front tire: 2.35 Maxxis Minion DHF set @ 20# on 38mm wide LB rims
    Rear tire: 2.35 Maxxis Minion DHF set @ 24# on 38mm LB rims

    Fitting and Ride observation;

    If you were blind folded and ride a Turner before, you will feel that it is very close to the previous models except that this one is slacker and plusher.
    With a 50mm stem and a wide bar, it feels upright, relax and a more aggressive specially when you're standing up in an attack position or even just sitting with the saddle down. The RFX feels like begging you to go out and rip. Cornering is like a laser guided missile that follows your steering input with precision wherever you point it at. Drifting on some lose section is also very forgiving that you can push it a little harder until the tire find another traction to move forward. this bike is amazing and lots of fun to ride. the ride is plush and bottomless but it won't suck up your energy while pedalling.
    With the saddle at full extension though, the 50mm seems a tiny bit short. and with a little of upper body leaning forward, climbing up steep section is not a problem. Traction up some rocky technical section is awesome, it doesn't lost any traction even a bit. i purpose choose the most difficult and technical section to see how far I can ride this bike up. The RFX doesn't embarrassed itself.

    After the first climb and long descent, I swap out the stem to a 70mm long. this time the bike transform into a trail bike feel. the bike feels comfortable for a long ride but you lost that aggressiveness that the RFX is intended for. Perhaps, this would be a perfect setup for those guys building a lighter with a longer travel bike to help conquer those technical section with their developing riding skills.

    I like the 50mm better, perhaps chop the bar a bit but will try a 60mm next time and see which would feel better overall.

    Thanks,
    When trails gets tougher, Just stand up and deliver.

  187. #587
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    Carbon RFX Is Here

    Quote Originally Posted by Bullit_cn View Post
    This is my first time making a review in writing and I am not an expert.....
    .....With a 50mm stem and a wide bar, it feels upright, relax and a more aggressive specially when you're standing up in an attack position or even just sitting with the saddle down. The RFX feels like begging you to go out and rip. Cornering is like a laser guided missile....
    Great review. Detailed and informative. Thanks for posting.
    Last edited by deanopatoni; 12-02-2015 at 12:32 AM.

  188. #588
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    Quote Originally Posted by deanopatoni View Post
    Great review. Detailed and informative. Thanks for posting.
    I agree - good solid review - a lot of great statements.

    I am 5' 8.5", 30" inseam so I am more torso than Bullit_cn.

    Some initial tid bits from my end, based on Bullit_cn's review. I agree, It is a fun bike and corners unbelievably well owing to the shortish wheelbase and front center. Just turn your head and the bike will be there. Owing to the shorter wheelbase/front center, you can control the bike a lot more with your hips. I find the suspension quite active in a playful lively manner. With the debonair, I tend run in it in middle shock lever mode for most rides. I flip the switch to open only for shuttle runs or long descents. Fireroads climbs, I am flipping to lockout. I am not sure if some of this is because of the fork. The fox 36 fork on the RFX is polar opposite to the one on my Insurgent. The one on the RFX requires much more air pressure (about 25 psi) and a few bottom out tokens. I believe I have different tune forks as stated here. It feels very lively owing to the increased air pressure. I have had a blast on shuttle runs with the bike, but surprisingly it hasn't pedal as well as I have hoped. Switching to longer stems and more cockpit space may improve this - no trail ride yet with this setup. Up until this point, in general, I am set it and forget it type and never use the shock levers, except on those 1.5hr plus climbs, even then I tend not to use it. For the RFX, I find I need to use it. On the Insurgent, I never use the shock levers and being honest it is one of the best pedaling bikes that I have ever ridden - it is almost cheating (I believe I understand why - explain more later on this). I do need more rides with the RFX.

    Owing the active behavior of the RFX, I don't see the need for the 11-6 shock. It feels really good with the debonair. I may eat my words, as my buddy has one and is planning to loan it to me in the near future.

  189. #589
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    Wait a second. You have an Insurgent and an RFX? Trying them both out in plans of keeping just one I assume?

  190. #590
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    Wait a second. You have an Insurgent and an RFX? Trying them both out in plans of keeping just one I assume?
    Haha yep (it is a long story). The timing of things just kind of developed into where I am in now. Basically I had extra parts from a 29er frame that I sold. I didn't want to sell those parts for a loss. With some other deals on parts from my buddies (one buddy going to carbon wide wheels) and a deal on a fork, it worked out to build them both up and ride them back to back. Though similar, the geometry represents two different types of riding - there is a one inch difference in WB, reach, and front center. This is center to the continuous arguments about frame size so I am doing my own tests for me. Both hover around the AM realm, which is where I ride, so redundant but different. I am not sure how it will play out. I am taking my time learning about their riding characteristics. I recognize that I am in a very good position. I believe natural selection will prevail or recognition of two bikes for different needs.

    Initially, I thought the RFX would become my trail bike being shorter and the Insurgent being longer and slacker becoming more of my aggressive AM bike (thought I would set up slacker in xlow and more aggressive shock). However, I am way faster pedaling on the Insurgent - not just climbs, but trail pedaling. I kind of thought the RFX would have pedaled similar or better to than the Insurgent (still tinkering). Owing to this my thoughts have stopped, I am just tinkering and riding both bikes and making subtle improvements where appropriate. I love bikes so I am just having fun. Both bikes are great, you can see DW influence on both of them.

  191. #591
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dude! View Post
    Haha yep (it is a long story). The timing of things just kind of developed into where I am in now. Basically I had extra parts from a 29er frame that I sold. I didn't want to sell those parts for a loss. With some other deals on parts from my buddies (one buddy going to carbon wide wheels) and a deal on a fork, it worked out to build them both up and ride them back to back. Though similar, the geometry represents two different types of riding - there is a one inch difference in WB, reach, and front center. This is center to the continuous arguments about frame size so I am doing my own tests for me. Both hover around the AM realm, which is where I ride, so redundant but different. I am not sure how it will play out. I am taking my time learning about their riding characteristics. I recognize that I am in a very good position. I believe natural selection will prevail or recognition of two bikes for different needs.

    Initially, I thought the RFX would become my trail bike being shorter and the Insurgent being longer and slacker becoming more of my aggressive AM bike (thought I would set up slacker in xlow and more aggressive shock). However, I am way faster pedaling on the Insurgent - not just climbs, but trail pedaling. I kind of thought the RFX would have pedaled similar or better to than the Insurgent (still tinkering). Owing to this my thoughts have stopped, I am just tinkering and riding both bikes and making subtle improvements where appropriate. I love bikes so I am just having fun. Both bikes are great, you can see DW influence on both of them.
    Interesting.
    Which one feels more plush on DH?
    Do you prefer the longer reach of the insurgent?
    Do you find the RFX to be significantly more agile or nervous due to the shorter WB?
    Which one climbs tech stuff better?
    Which one in general is more comfortable climbing? STA...
    Which one feels more poppy?
    Which one accelerates better?
    Which one rails corners better?
    It seems to me you like the insurgent just a tiny bit more overall...
    Thanks Dude!
    Great info!

  192. #592
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    It would be awesome to have the luxury to try both as you are doing. I still cannot see how you would end up with both of them in the long term however, as there is way too much overlap in their design and purpose. Surely getting something that is a better climber w/ less travel would make much more sense as a second bike?

  193. #593
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    Thanks guys for the great review/insight on the RFX! I have one on order and need to live through everyone that got there's already.

    I own a Burner also and am contemplating if I should keep them both our off the Burner because I think the RFX is more geared to my style of riding. Not sure. Also curious how the rock shox shock will ride, since I've had cc double barrels and in lines on my past 3 frames.

    Really curious and hoping Dude responds to jazznovas questions....good stuff!

    I think if I owned both,I'd keep both!

    Thanks all,

    Chris

  194. #594
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    Thanks for the thoughts & reviews - I'm curious about setup and longer term dialing in of settings.
    ¡Geaux Tigers! - ¡Visca el Barça!

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  195. #595
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dude! View Post
    Haha yep (it is a long story). The timing of things just kind of developed into where I am in now. Basically I had extra parts from a 29er frame that I sold. I didn't want to sell those parts for a loss. With some other deals on parts from my buddies (one buddy going to carbon wide wheels) and a deal on a fork, it worked out to build them both up and ride them back to back. Though similar, the geometry represents two different types of riding - there is a one inch difference in WB, reach, and front center. This is center to the continuous arguments about frame size so I am doing my own tests for me. Both hover around the AM realm, which is where I ride, so redundant but different. I am not sure how it will play out. I am taking my time learning about their riding characteristics. I recognize that I am in a very good position. I believe natural selection will prevail or recognition of two bikes for different needs.

    Initially, I thought the RFX would become my trail bike being shorter and the Insurgent being longer and slacker becoming more of my aggressive AM bike (thought I would set up slacker in xlow and more aggressive shock). However, I am way faster pedaling on the Insurgent - not just climbs, but trail pedaling. I kind of thought the RFX would have pedaled similar or better to than the Insurgent (still tinkering). Owing to this my thoughts have stopped, I am just tinkering and riding both bikes and making subtle improvements where appropriate. I love bikes so I am just having fun. Both bikes are great, you can see DW influence on both of them.
    I'll echo Dude's comments on the Delta link and pedaling efficiency. When I had my Following, I felt like it accelerated like a XC hardtail. Even better than my Ripley. It really urges you to go faster and faster. Sometimes that's a good thing, other times it can get you into trouble

  196. #596
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    [QUOTE=Dude!;12340414] Though similar, the geometry represents two different types of riding

    DUDE, interested in hearing more comments as you get your rides dialed. would you say the bikes are built the same or 'similiar'? you mentioned the fork but I am curious about the other pieces as some subtle changes can create differences in a bikes 'ride and feel'.

    wtf? about those different fox forks.? who wants to hear that the forks are not the same?. going with pikes for a little longer.....


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  197. #597
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    There's two different tunes on 36's iout now apparently. And a third one is coming in the spring

  198. #598
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    Mind if I ask when you put your order in for the RFX (and where you are...)?

    Has anybody that ordered in September got a bike yet?
    Last edited by whoda*huck; 12-03-2015 at 01:50 PM.

  199. #599
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzanova View Post
    Interesting.
    Which one feels more plush on DH?
    Do you prefer the longer reach of the insurgent?
    Do you find the RFX to be significantly more agile or nervous due to the shorter WB?
    Which one climbs tech stuff better?
    Which one in general is more comfortable climbing? STA...
    Which one feels more poppy?
    Which one accelerates better?
    Which one rails corners better?
    It seems to me you like the insurgent just a tiny bit more overall...
    Thanks Dude!
    Great info!
    Also would love to hear your thoughts on this dude, thanks!

  200. #600
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    I ordered the frame and fork upgrade in September, this Monday just gone I got an email saying that it will be shipped on Wednesday. I think there might have been a problem getting the Pikes in stock?

    Hopefully I will be one of many happy new RFX owners in the next few days!

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