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  1. #1
    Natl. Champ DH Poser/Hack
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    ok, yer in. but lock the door behind ya or the beer will all get drunk by the new guys! good one tiger, congrats man!
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  2. #2
    Now with 3 more inches!
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    Can I join the club?

    To Whom it may concern:

    Please find enclosed my application to become a Turner Homer.

    Build pics will have to wait until I get back to Mexico City next week.

    By the way, Laguna Hills Superformancego still has an XL in red and larges in black and red, all with Swingers. I figured I'd go with the Fox for future pushability.
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  3. #3
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    nice tigerdog, black Burners rule

  4. #4
    "El Whatever"
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigerdog
    To Whom it may concern:

    Please find enclosed my application to become a Turner Homer.

    Build pics will have to wait until I get back to Mexico City next week.

    By the way, Laguna Hills Superformancego still has an XL in red and larges in black and red, all with Swingers. I figured I'd go with the Fox for future pushability.
    Congrats you lucky one!!!

    Man, that ride is gorgeous. Pushable is a nice plus. Another upgrade on your list is some set of rockers to take it to 4". But just as of now it's a KILLA bike!!

    For the build... don't sweat it... We can get it assembled in one night if we have all the stuff at hand. Just make sure you get cables and housings, seatpost, FD and BB... you pretty much have the rest, so it'll be singing and sewing from there.

    If you can, get a shop up there that might prepare the frame... I don't know of a local shop that would have reamers and stuff to dress the frame. Maybe you know one, but I certainly don't.

    Big Congrats!!! I know how much you've sweat for this frame!!

    Patience has paid in your case.
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  5. #5
    Now with 3 more inches!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp2003
    If you can, get a shop up there that might prepare the frame... I don't know of a local shop that would have reamers and stuff to dress the frame. Maybe you know one, but I certainly don't.
    Actually, I believe Turners come pre faced and chased, although the headtube facing doesn't look great. I've still got to get a seatpost and some zip-ties, but that's it.

  6. #6
    Mexican e-rider
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    Congratulations

    Congratulations and welcome to the Mexican Homer's club! I just might have to ask my Specialized riding friend to give me that extra Turner Homer Jersey back! I will definately be putting my XL Flux up for sales since I grew some cojones and purchased one of the Interbike demo 5 Spots. When my wife finds out I am dead meat.

    XL Flux anyone?
    "Hell, the Titus Moderator can't pass a cantina without gettin' the shakes"

  7. #7
    "El Whatever"
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigerdog
    Actually, I believe Turners come pre faced and chased, although the headtube facing doesn't look great. I've still got to get a seatpost and some zip-ties, but that's it.
    Wel... we can have it built up for the first weekend of december then
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  8. #8
    Now with 3 more inches!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp2003
    Wel... we can have it built up for the first weekend of december then
    Just need to do the home-made headset press!

  9. #9
    "El Whatever"
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    Quote Originally Posted by elmadaleno
    Congratulations and welcome to the Mexican Homer's club! I just might have to ask my Specialized riding friend to give me that extra Turner Homer Jersey back! I will definately be putting my XL Flux up for sales since I grew some cojones and purchased one of the Interbike demo 5 Spots. When my wife finds out I am dead meat.

    XL Flux anyone?
    I'll be happy to beat two Turners and a Titus on my Warp then!!!

    Nah, just joking!! I'm getting used to get my arse kicked badly by a crazy dude on a Raleigh with some RST non-damped fork!

    Enjoy your new ride too Madaleno!! I'm looking after at watching at those beatiful bikes!
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  10. #10
    Now with 3 more inches!
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    Quote Originally Posted by elmadaleno
    XL Flux anyone?
    I think rzozaya could use a new bike.

  11. #11
    Now with 3 more inches!
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    Quote Originally Posted by elmadaleno
    I just might have to ask my Specialized riding friend to give me that extra Turner Homer Jersey back!
    Absolutely! I'd definitely buy that from you.

  12. #12
    "El Whatever"
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigerdog
    I think rzozaya could use a new bike.
    mmmm.... too big for him. He felt already a bit stretched on the Spech
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  13. #13
    Mexican e-rider
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigerdog
    Just need to do the home-made headset press!
    Remember: put the cups in the freezer before you install, and use plenty of lubricant!!!
    "Hell, the Titus Moderator can't pass a cantina without gettin' the shakes"

  14. #14
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    The more I'm thinking about it, the more I'm convincing myself I should get a decent shop to put a headset on for me. I really would hate to screw that up. Then I'll put my old King on my wife's bike.

    Any San Diego Homers have a good shop to recommend? I'm staying in the Del Mar area until Tuesday.

  15. #15
    "El Whatever"
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigerdog
    The more I'm thinking about it, the more I'm convincing myself I should get a decent shop to put a headset on for me. I really would hate to screw that up. Then I'll put my old King on my wife's bike.

    Any San Diego Homers have a good shop to recommend? I'm staying in the Del Mar area until Tuesday.
    Just make sure you get the frame prep'ed. It's not that difficult.

    Actually this is the perfect example why CK's last more... any headset installed with that level of care will last as long. Nobody wants to take risks on a 100 plus bucks headset or a big bucks frame.
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  16. #16
    Bike to the Bone...
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigerdog
    The more I'm thinking about it, the more I'm convincing myself I should get a decent shop to put a headset on for me. I really would hate to screw that up. Then I'll put my old King on my wife's bike.

    Any San Diego Homers have a good shop to recommend? I'm staying in the Del Mar area until Tuesday.
    I was thinking that having a shop installing it would be a better decision, the rest you can put Warp to work on it on a room alone until he finnishes j/k

    btw, what are you doing with your Stumpy frame?

  17. #17
    "El Whatever"
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    Quote Originally Posted by rzozaya1969
    I was thinking that having a shop installing it would be a better decision, the rest you can put Warp to work on it on a room alone until he finnishes j/k

    btw, what are you doing with your Stumpy frame?
    What's wrong with my idea of installing his headset with a piece of wood and an Inertial Leverage Advantage Tool (ILAT or formerly known as "hammer").

    Also... I don't think the CK would be so stuck into the Stumpy that a good hit with the ILAT and a nice long flat blade screwdriver (or piece of rebar) would not take it out.

    Aluminum is not that soft!!

    Anyway... the more naked chicks posters and more beer in that room you put, the faster I will finish (with the bike - I might spend more time in the room until chelas are over).
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  18. #18
    Bike to the Bone...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp2003
    What's wrong with my idea of installing his headset with a piece of wood and an Inertial Leverage Advantage Tool (ILAT or formerly known as "hammer").

    Also... I don't think the CK would be so stuck into the Stumpy that a good hit with the ILAT and a nice long flat blade screwdriver (or piece of rebar) would not take it out.

    Aluminum is not that soft!!

    Anyway... the more naked chicks posters and more beer in that room you put, the faster I will finish (with the bike - I might spend more time in the room until chelas are over).
    Matt... just take off all signs of a naked chic poster so Warp can put attention on your bike... j/k

    I really don't know much about installing headsets, but I've heard that it's something that has to be done with a proper tooling. Probably it would not cost much to have a mechanich on a LBS do it, while if something doesn't work out, well, I really don't know if it is just something that has to be redone or a bigger risk. Just my .02.

  19. #19
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    I really hope you are joking about "aluminum is not that soft" regarding removing your CK headset with a hammer and screwdriver. Eeek!

    CK headsets, although incredible, do not hold up well to removal/reassembly. Then again, not a lot of headsets do. I know that my CK headsets have gotten marked up from using the actual headset press, let alone banging on it with a screwdriver.

    Then again, I could just be stupid.

  20. #20
    Natl. Champ DH Poser/Hack
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    if i may....
    theres only one way to install and remove a quality h/set, king or otherwise, and thats with a professional h/set press and removal tool. period. in the case of a king, you must use the king press adaptors to ensure no damage to the bearing or cup is done durring install. i could be wrong here but anything short will void yer warranty, not that a warranty is usually needed cuz they last a friggin lifetime. that is if ya install em right. so kids, please dont be tempted to do some lame quicky job here. spend a few bucks and wait a few days if nessesary to do the job right. $18 to remove and install a king and cut the steerer tube correctly beats the crap outta a 2nd new $150 h/set and the cash to pay the man to do it for ya anyway. good luck with yer choices guys. i hope it works out whatever you decide.
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  21. #21
    Lay off the Levers
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    (edit: CC beat me to it. )
    I've had mine installed three times without a nick. I recall there being a Park HS installation adaptor for CK headsets Were you(or your LBS) using one?

    Lots of people xfer their CKs through multiple frames...I thought that was part of the draw, that they're like heirlooms to be handed down from bike to bike.

    That said using a screwriver and a hammer to remove it sounds risky. OTOH the park RT-1 cup removal tool is just a cut and splayed metal pipe so it's sort of like 4 curved screwdrivers all resting on the cup at once...still it's better than the old Stanley. At ~$28 bucks prolly worth it for a $100 headset that's going to be reused. Especially considering a shop could charge $20 bucks to do the job...if your weren't a regular there.


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  22. #22
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    Gotta get me one of them...

    CK headset is coming off the old bike to go on the Burner. BZ you are prolly right in that buying a RT-1 is a better deal than paying to have your HS removed. Speaking of which, does anybody have a good place to get a new King fork crown race for the new fork?

  23. #23
    "El Whatever"
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    Homers... you're so sensitive!!

    I used to commission Gas Turbines for a living before coming to Mexico City. I'm a mechanical engineer too.

    I was just joking!

    I was thinking about using a method similar to the one used by Speehub Nate to remove the headset, which involves a flared copper tube which is softer than the more durable tool from Park. In turn the Park Tool is much harder and will be more prone to nick the headset.

    For pressing it in, I was planning to use a homemade press with a 3/4" UNF bolt and some washers with some plastic washers or protection between the metal washers and the headset. This will allow proper alignment without denting or nicking the headset.

    I honestly think that it would be not easy to find a shop locally with a headset press with the King adapters... Tigerdog already knows that, he's a sensible person, and I know he's taking his previsions for this. I know a guy in Puebla (a 2 hours drive) much PROBABLY has the tooling.

    OTOH... I'm not dumb enough to go for something I think it would not work.. especially on a piece of equipment that involves one month off my salary.

    Again... if all headsets would be installed with the care a CK gets, more people would be buying 5 bucks headsets because it would last just the same as the King... bling apart obviously.

    All in all... I'm open to help with whatever I would be allowed to.
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  24. #24
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    Warp, I've used a pipe and hammer in the past on a cheap arse headset on a inexpensive steel frame, so I didn't know you were joking about the screwdriver w/o a smiley...sorry dude.

    As for el-cheapo headsets lasting as long as CKs if installed with care, I'm not so sure. IMO they last so long b/c they use excellent angular bearings with very good seals and have tight tolerances between the bearings and cups. I think that will play a bigger role in the lifespan than how it was installed unless it's installed very poorly.

    Copper extractor: I would think you also have a certain risk using softer copper as well. It can deform and sheer off more easily, possibly causing damage on the way. Sort of 6 vs. half-dozen thing compared to the Park, and I'd give park the advantage just 'cause they're Park.
    Maybe PVC?

    But if y ou were kidding about that too then nevermind mmmkay?
    Last edited by Bikezilla; 11-28-2005 at 08:52 AM.
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikezilla
    (edit: CC beat me to it. )
    I've had mine installed three times without a nick. I recall there being a Park HS installation adaptor for CK headsets Were you(or your LBS) using one?
    Yes we were using the adapters for the cup press. The nicks are primarily from the splayed removal tool.

  26. #26
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    Ouch. I guess you didn't say "Simon Says" first.
    Good thing it wasn't a steelset.
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  27. #27
    "El Whatever"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikezilla
    Warp, I've used a pipe and hammer in the past on a cheap arse headset on a inexpensive steel frame, so I didn't know you were joking about the screwdriver w/o a smiley...sorry dude.

    As for el-cheapo headsets lasting as long as CKs if installed with care, I'm not so sure. IMO they last so long b/c they use excellent angular bearings with very good seals and have tight tolerances between the bearings and cups. I think that will play a bigger role in the lifespan than how it was installed unless it's installed very poorly.
    I'm not so sure... intended use counts a lot too. From my experience, I've seen many cheapo headsets lasting very long. Humidity and usage play a bigger role too. I can't see why a FSA Orbit wouldn't last as long as a CK being way cheaper. Similar construction.

    I can't deny manufacturing is sweet on a CK... but so it is with Hope, FSA, Cane Creek, Race Face and WTB at a fraction of the cost. Obviously, CK beats them in the bling department... it's like comparing a Rolex against a TAG Heuer... Quality is superb on both (maybe even better on the TAG) but the Rolex is a sign of status

    Quote Originally Posted by Bikezilla
    Copper extractor: I would think you also have a certain risk using softer copper as well. It can deform and sheer off more easily, possibly causing damage on the way. Sort of 6 vs. half-dozen thing compared to the Park, and I'd give park the advantage just 'cause they're Park.
    Maybe PVC?

    But if y ou were kidding about that too then nevermind mmmkay?
    If the headset was properly installed (frame preparation and pressing), the headset should come off easily with a copper pipe or the PT tool. BTW... that ILAT (hammer) shown on Park illustration is plain overkill for a headset. For mechanical parts you want a lighter tool and tapping rather than swinging wide open. Maybe the headset will come off with a couple blows of that sledge hammer but it will come off harshly and can damage the headtube reaming... that's accounting that you use the PT's headset extractor and the headset goes off straight!!

    I have a small ILAT which I used to pull off some pedals that were overtorqued on the cranks. Tapping and patience is the name of the game.

    Anyway... it's up to Tigerdog if he decide to have it either route. I will just obey. I'km not gonna risk his stuff... costing it 5 bucks or 2 grands. Please note that I prefer the proper method... I just doubt anybody will have the right equipment here locally. If I could I would go with the proper tool too. That's a milestone in my job too.
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp2003
    If the headset was properly installed (frame preparation and pressing), the headset should come off easily with a copper pipe or the PT tool. BTW... that ILAT (hammer) shown on Park illustration is plain overkill for a headset. For mechanical parts you want a lighter tool and tapping rather than swinging wide open. Maybe the headset will come off with a couple blows of that sledge hammer but it will come off harshly and can damage the headtube reaming... that's accounting that you use the PT's headset extractor and the headset goes off straight!!

    I have a small ILAT which I used to pull off some pedals that were overtorqued on the cranks. Tapping and patience is the name of the game.
    I just find this humourous because in every shop I have worked in, what you say is the exact opposite of what happens. I know that when I normally knock out my CK headsets, the cup will go flying across the room. I know, I know, it isn't good for it.

    And as far as removing pedals, typically in most shops torque and power are the name of the game. Use an old set of handlebars to get more torque and try to pry those suckers off.

  29. #29
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    Wow!

    I missed a lot since yesterday morning. I could have saved you all a lot of typing by showing you this:

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  30. #30
    "El Whatever"
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    Quote Originally Posted by dyst0pia
    I just find this humourous because in every shop I have worked in, what you say is the exact opposite of what happens. I know that when I normally knock out my CK headsets, the cup will go flying across the room. I know, I know, it isn't good for it.

    And as far as removing pedals, typically in most shops torque and power are the name of the game. Use an old set of handlebars to get more torque and try to pry those suckers off.
    Thanks Dyst!!! Now I feel a bit less a caveman!!!

    I'd probably would do the same as you say if I would have to work on 20 bikes a day and still find time to ride. I'm a skinny guy too and even with all my muscle and will power I wouldn't damage a metal made part.
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  31. #31
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    I'm speaking academically only. There are several ways to skin a gato. I've even seen an extractor that was some kind of slide hammer with a rod & plate to catch the ejecting cup. Pretty slick.

    As for the other headsets I was talking about the $5 dollar ones you suggested. I'm sure other high-end HS are comparable. I've had a cheapo entry-level C-Creeeek that was barely worth the cost of materials used to make it. But I suppose that's debatable too but not by me.

    Cheers
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigerdog
    Wow!

    I missed a lot since yesterday morning. I could have saved you all a lot of typing by showing you this:

    You sucka!!

    So... a second CK headset??? Nice... Less work for me this weekend and more time to beer (and watch the Collective as a consolation prize??)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp2003
    Thanks Dyst!!! Now I feel a bit less a caveman!!!

    I'd probably would do the same as you say if I would have to work on 20 bikes a day and still find time to ride. I'm a skinny guy too and even with all my muscle and will power I wouldn't damage a metal made part.
    Haha, don't even get me started on cutting fork steerer tubes, setting crown races, checking frame alignment, or putting on tight-fitting tires. You would never take your bike to a shop again.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by dyst0pia
    I just find this humourous because in every shop I have worked in, what you say is the exact opposite of what happens. I know that when I normally knock out my CK headsets, the cup will go flying across the room. I know, I know, it isn't good for it.
    That's why they invented bike stands, which allows you to tap it out from above (or below) and put your other hand on the other end and catch the cup so it doesn't fly across the room. Not had to do.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigerdog

    Any San Diego Homers have a good shop to recommend? I'm staying in the Del Mar area until Tuesday.
    B&L/101 Bikes is just north in Solana Beach. I don't know about their ability, but if you supervise...don't let 'em screw it up.
    Nitro is a little further up in Encinitas. It's a higher end shop, so it probably has better mechanics (you'd think). They're road bike and tri bike geeks in there, so be prepared for a lot of "hmmm, what is that?" Don't go to the Trek store in Kearny Mesa. CS there is on par with the big E.

    Good luck and congrats on the new ride.

  36. #36
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    I'm sure Warp and I could have done it the home made route (especially using speedhubnate's excellent instructions), but I just wanted peace of mind.

    Maybe we can practice transferring my old one onto Warp's frame! Not sure it'll fit though

    I understand Warp's headset statements. I'd love to try a Hope. Maybe I'll pick one up in England this summer. The King is very expensive, but damn is it sexy! I was tempted to go the Blingzilla route and get a gold one to match my Marathon dials, but all they had were black and silver, and I don't have time to shop around.

    As for Rzozoya's question about my old Stumpy frame. Not sure what's going to happen to it, but I'm open to offers.

    On another note, I picked up a 27.2 x 410 Thomson. I tried it out and damn, that is a very, very snug fit - much tighter than my 30.9 in the Stumpjumper. Is this normal for the Burner frame? I wasn't supposed to get a 27.0 was I?

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    That's why they invented bike stands, which allows you to tap it out from above (or below) and put your other hand on the other end and catch the cup so it doesn't fly across the room. Not had to do.
    Oh... but you can't catch the cup when you have both hands on the hammer handle!!!


    Dyst - I don't take my bike to shops... Only thing I don't do by myself is truing wheels. All of the rest are in-house ops.
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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigerdog
    I'm sure Warp and I could have done it the home made route (especially using speedhubnate's excellent instructions), but I just wanted peace of mind.
    Thanks for the vote of confidence (seriously, no sarcasm). I think you took the proper route.

    Quote Originally Posted by tigerdog
    Maybe we can practice transferring my old one onto Warp's frame! Not sure it'll fit though
    No it doesn't fit... mine is a zero-stack. I'm lusting after a FSA. Some people has bashed this design but if you go to the Giant forum you'll see too many people don't have any idea what headset they have because the headsets are so trouble free that nobody had look into them.

    There are other who just change the headset buying apdaptors and a King and never give a chance to the zero-stack. Oh well... there are many fishes in the sea.
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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangerider
    Good luck and congrats on the new ride.
    Thanks for the input Orangerider, I had to take my wife to the Mall in LaJolla yesterday, so I ended up going to UC Cyclery, they had Kings and a Thomson in my size (I hope, see previous post).

    What has been really cool so far about buying this frame is that every shop person I've spoken to has had nothing but great things to say about Turners.

    Oh, and rolling up and down the 5 to bike shops in this doesn't hurt either.
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  40. #40
    "El Whatever"
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    Tiger... OT - How's your leg?? What your "doc" says about it??

    Can it be punished hard yet?? I hope you're much better now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp2003
    Tiger... OT - How's your leg?? What your "doc" says about it??

    Can it be punished hard yet?? I hope you're much better now.
    He's given me the all-clear. Just said it'll hurt like hell if I fall and land on the plate. Said I don't need to bother with shin-guards or anything.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigerdog
    He's given me the all-clear. Just said it'll hurt like hell if I fall and land on the plate. Said I don't need to bother with shin-guards or anything.
    That Turner will hit Chiluca soon then....

    Congratulations!!!
    Check my Site

  43. #43
    Bike to the Bone...
    Reputation: rzozaya1969's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    8,286
    Quote Originally Posted by tigerdog
    Thanks for the input Orangerider, I had to take my wife to the Mall in LaJolla yesterday, so I ended up going to UC Cyclery, they had Kings and a Thomson in my size (I hope, see previous post).

    What has been really cool so far about buying this frame is that every shop person I've spoken to has had nothing but great things to say about Turners.

    Oh, and rolling up and down the 5 to bike shops in this doesn't hurt either.
    So what Tiger, that's your new car?

  44. #44
    Now with 3 more inches!
    Reputation: tigerdog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    1,463
    Quote Originally Posted by rzozaya1969
    So what Tiger, that's your new car?
    I wish!

    No, it's my sister-in-laws. I've been chauffeuring everyone around in it this weekend.

    The Bronco behind it (with a dead battery, no rear-view mirrors or up-to-date tags) is more my price range.

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