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  1. #1
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    Is this a bad thing?

    I rode today with a buddy (Vail lake for us Southern Californians.)....he was on an Ellsworth moment. Anyway, I do my best to keep up on the downhills, and I think my Flux took the brunt of it today.

    The crown of the seatstays seems to have met with the seat tube.

    I am not entirely sure when it happened, but I heard an odd sounding clunk and I didnt think that it was that bad of a drop.

    I dont want to break the frame, so how can I avoid this? I have the air pressure in the shock set at 1/4 inch sag.

    Is this common?

    Thanks, pics attached.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #2
    MK_
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    I don't think that this is supposed to happen at full bottomout, even with 0 pressure in the shock, but I will let the big boys do the analysis.

    _MK

    Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, first make sure that you are not just surrounded by a*holes

  3. #3
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    call turner, this has been reported before.

  4. #4
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    Thanks!

    Will do.


  5. #5
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    Based on reading from that other thread, I decided to do a test.

    I took all of the air out of the shock, and compressed it. Unless I bounced on it pretty good, I couldnt get the parts to touch again.

    I plan to call turner later today.

    BTW, should I not be riding in this manner anyway?

    tx

  6. #6
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    On a whim, I took my small Flux and compressed the frame's full travel and the two parts that touched on yours are almost a full inch from one another with the shock bottomed out.

    Something's up....call Turner.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpeedThrills
    On a whim, I took my small Flux and compressed the frame's full travel and the two parts that touched on yours are almost a full inch from one another with the shock bottomed out.

    Something's up....call Turner.
    It's the links flexing. I've seen it happen on a couple of bikes. The worst was a buddies azonic frame that's pretty much a turner ripoff that he uses for mountain cross and dirtjumping. There's a reason the links aren't hollowed out on the rfx/6 pack variety of frames. My friend's solution was to press in two aluminum plates into the machined out sections so that they are more rigid. Maybe you can get another set of links sans hollowness.

  8. #8
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    Ya, It just seems like something is wrong. Thanks for doing your experiment though.

    Does anyone know if it is possible to add some longer rockers on the turner to get a bit more travel in the rear?

    Maybe having the new shock pushed would help too?

    Thanks!!!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattsteve
    Ya, It just seems like something is wrong. Thanks for doing your experiment though.

    Does anyone know if it is possible to add some longer rockers on the turner to get a bit more travel in the rear?

    Maybe having the new shock pushed would help too?

    Thanks!!!
    If it really is what I'm pretty sure it is, changing shock valving won't help. You still have the same length eye to eye and bottom out point. But it probably doesn't even take a full bottom out to get the contact. The links are acting like their own spring in that they are flexing along with the shock compression, more so towards the end of your travel when there's greater force on them. New links that change travel might help but what you really need is just stiffer ones. That way you keep the geometry and handling but don't get the extra half inch/inch of seatstay advancement that the stock links are allowing.

    Edit: just read the other thread........anyone ever hear from this guy again after the new shock?
    Last edited by kidwoo; 12-01-2005 at 12:26 PM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo
    If it really is what I'm pretty sure it is, changing shock valving won't help. You still have the same length eye to eye and bottom out point. But it probably doesn't even take a full bottom out to get the contact. The links are acting like their own spring in that they are flexing along with the shock compression, more so towards the end of your travel when there's greater force on them. New links that change travel might help but what you really need is just stiffer ones. That way you keep the geometry and handling but don't get the extra half inch/inch of seatstay advancement that the stock links are allowing.
    I cant buy this. Again, using my frame as an example, if it WAS the links flexing, your talking a good 1/2 to 3/4 inch deflection. That is a tremendous amount of flex and I doubt a deflection that large would even allow the parts to snap back into shape. It would cause a permanent bend in the part thats flexing.

    Also, if you read the thread listed above where a lot of others are reporting this problem, the two parts in question are almost touching with the bike still.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpeedThrills
    I cant buy this. Again, using my frame as an example, if it WAS the links flexing, your talking a good 1/2 to 3/4 inch deflection. That is a tremendous amount of flex and I doubt a deflection that large would even allow the parts to snap back into shape. It would cause a permanent bend in the part thats flexing.

    Also, if you read the thread listed above where a lot of others are reporting this problem, the two parts in question are almost touching with the bike still.
    They DO flex though. Another friend of mine who raced a burner frame for mountain cross also had this problem. He stuck a slightly shorter shock on his to lower the BB. This is something almost all of the honda turner guys as well as eric carter did to theirs so he figured it's safe. He depressurized his shock, checked the bottom point and all was good. But the first time he took the frame out we kept hearing somethink clack between jumps. We kept checking his fork but it was the seatstay frame interface. We even deflated his shock again and there was still some space between the seatstay and seat tube. I didn't measure it but it was greater than the scale of a few millimeters. He just ended up running a really high air pressure to keep it from happening.

    Here's the frame I'm talking about.




    Now I know most xc rides don't put see kind of force on the frame akin the g-forces of rolling between doubles but with a bigger guy, it certainly could be happening and if it were my frame that's what I would be looking at.

    Those links could easily be flexing 1/2 inch. The azonic frame I mentioned had an even bigger gap to span on bottom out.

  12. #12
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    It seems like there might be additional damage to pivots/bushings if the rockers are flexing. Any sign of that?

  13. #13
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    I got hold of Greg, and it looks like they are going to warranty the front triangle.

    Just out of curiosity, are the rearands of a Flux and 5 spot the same?

    Ill let you all know what happens when I go to see him.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattsteve
    I got hold of Greg, and it looks like they are going to warranty the front triangle.

    Just out of curiosity, are the rearands of a Flux and 5 spot the same?

    Ill let you all know what happens when I go to see him.
    You still might want to try and dupicate the impact with your shock deflated. It still might be that your shock is at fault. It would be good to know if you're in for the same thing again once you get the triangle replaced.

    Less to lose now that your frame is getting replaced anyway.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattsteve
    Just out of curiosity, are the rearands of a Flux and 5 spot the same?

    Ill let you all know what happens when I go to see him.
    Yep. They are the same.

  16. #16
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    I wonder if I should think about swapping to a 5 spot frame.......


  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattsteve
    I wonder if I should think about swapping to a 5 spot frame.......

    If you ride with a guy on a Moment and try to keep up with him on the downhills, it would make sense.

    _MK

    Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, first make sure that you are not just surrounded by a*holes

  18. #18
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    But I also like to climb......do you think that the difference between a Flux and 5 spot are noticeable when climbing?

    Decisions, decisions.........

  19. #19
    Bring Back Buck
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    Although I've not riden a Flux, I ride a 5-Spot, and went straight to that from a hard tail. I find the Spot actually climbs better than my hard tail did.

    Buck.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattsteve
    But I also like to climb......do you think that the difference between a Flux and 5 spot are noticeable when climbing?

    Decisions, decisions.........
    I have a Flux and a 5 Spot - the Flux climbs a little better than the Spot. I notice the difference on steep climbs.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattsteve
    But I also like to climb......do you think that the difference between a Flux and 5 spot are noticeable when climbing?

    Decisions, decisions.........
    The Flux is more responsive (it will accelerate better) on the climbs as the Spot, but the difference is not much at all. The Spot will climb better on technical terrain because of the extra travel/plushness.

    On my usual rides lately (about 45 minutes of continuous climbing), I've been riding my Spot exclusively and the time to get up the hill on the Spot has been very close to the times I've done on the Flux on a good day. I've been amazed that a bike that weighs almost 5 lbs. more go so well when pedaling uphill.
    Last edited by 2TurnersNotEnough; 12-02-2005 at 03:51 PM.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2TurnersNotEnough
    The Flux is more responsive (it will accelerate better) on the climbs as the Spot, but the difference is not much at all. The Spot will climb better on technical terrain because of the extra travel/plushness.

    On my usual rides lately (about 45 minutes of continuous climbing), I've been riding my Spot exclusively and the time to get up the hill on the Spot has been very close to the times I've done on the Flux on a good day. I've been amazed that a bike that weighs almost 5 lbs. more can so good when pedaling uphill.
    Now you need to time yourself on an RFX...

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmac
    Now you need to time yourself on an RFX...
    It's much slower
    I did a few comparisons and the RFX was a bike to be endured on the climbs. That's why I got the 5 Spot.

  24. #24
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    I am having the same problem . . .the seatstay crown is hitting the seat tube. It has hit several times now - nasty clanking noise. I have a similar mark.

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