Results 1 to 32 of 32
  1. #1
    Living the Dream
    Reputation: Alpenglow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    1,723

    Article on TE on Feedthehabit.com

    I used to like this site, but it has gone from unbiased product reviews to MBA type reviews.

    http://www.feedthehabit.com/mountain...ould-you-care/
    "And I shout that your all fakes and you should have seen the look on your face"

  2. #2
    It's carbon dontcha know.
    Reputation: 6thElement's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    4,205
    Anodized, not powder-coated results in lighter weight and elimination of paint wastes
    Lets ignore all the nasty chemicals required to anodize metal.

  3. #3
    JmZ
    JmZ is offline
    Reformed Lurker
    Reputation: JmZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,029
    Alpenglow, that's 6 mins I won't get back.

    And to save everyone else the trouble:

    Glimpse
    Wheelsets
    Ellsworth Carbon bikes.

    There's more I'm sure, but that should cover at least half of it.

    JmZ
    JmZ

    From one flat land to another.

    Advocate as if your ride depends on it...

  4. #4
    banned
    Reputation: Jerk_Chicken's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    16,457
    wow.

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation: prooperator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    515
    That pretty much sucked!
    Too wet to ride!

  6. #6
    Captain Underpants
    Reputation: Random Drivel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    4,280
    Synopsis of the review:

    Blah blah environment blah blah sustainability blah blah green blah blah

  7. #7
    I'm UTarded
    Reputation: powderboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    99
    Quote Originally Posted by Alpenglow
    I used to like this site, but it has gone from unbiased product reviews to MBA type reviews.

    http://www.feedthehabit.com/mountain...ould-you-care/
    Ouch! Can you point out some specific articles to call me out on? Sorry to hear you feel that way...

    Also... yeah, people might be tired of all the enviro spin, and you might hate TE or Ellsworth in general (prolly since this is a Turner forum), but I applaud him for doing something about it and standing up for good, sustainable business practices. No matter what, he's making bikes and there will be by-products and waste, but he's being open and conscious of everything his business is doing.

    People will always find a way to be a hater. I'd love to hear what other companies are doing in this regard, but there's not much out there to speak of. I'm sure DT is making great strides here as well, I just don't know the details.

  8. #8
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    30,673
    Quote Originally Posted by powderboy
    he's being open and conscious of everything his business is doing.
    I don't believe that for one minute. TE stooped to saying that he uses "buddists" to build wheels, and that he believes in US manufacturing (go look up the Ellsworth "Glimpse", made in taiwan like his wheels). I don't believe for one minute that TE is being open about his business, he is never open about his business, and he has no problem telling less than the truth or using falsehoods to better it.

    examples;

    1. Bikes weren't invented 300 years ago, you might want to look into that. Next video will probably be about how ICT was invented in 1708 by your ancestors and engraved into golden plates.
    2. So, you're all about USA manufacturing? What about those wheels your in your video about the awesomest wheels ever (and the Ellsworth 'glipse', look it up) ? Aren't those "buddhists" in Taiwan?
    3. Carbon dust causes black lung? Thats hilarious. I guess thats why they shut down all those carbon frame factories for the olympics to clean up the air around beijing, right?
    4. What were you doing filming in china anyway tony? not too many people go to south china for a vacation... I can't wait for the "we don't sand carbon and we are the best" video.
    5. Those windmills and solar panels: is that on your manufacturing plant? Oh, right, its not. So you are kind of being misleading here... You talk "US manufacturing", then state that you generate power from wind and the sun to have a zero energy use. But that isn't at a manufacturing site.
    6. ICT is a 4 bar linkage, its pretty dumb to be saying "all those links" about other 4 bar link systems. I mean, unless you haven't figured that out yet...
    7. Who is ICT "internationally recognized" by as the most efficient suspension? Thats a pretty broad claim, I'm guessing its c.r.a.p
    Last edited by Jayem; 02-24-2009 at 12:25 PM.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation: qbert2000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    3,226
    Quote Originally Posted by powderboy
    Ouch! Can you point out some specific articles to call me out on? Sorry to hear you feel that way...

    Also... yeah, people might be tired of all the enviro spin, and you might hate TE or Ellsworth in general (prolly since this is a Turner forum), but I applaud him for doing something about it and standing up for good, sustainable business practices. No matter what, he's making bikes and there will be by-products and waste, but he's being open and conscious of everything his business is doing.

    People will always find a way to be a hater. I'd love to hear what other companies are doing in this regard, but there's not much out there to speak of. I'm sure DT is making great strides here as well, I just don't know the details.

    it's kind of funny that the solar panels and turbines are all installed at the san diego facillity where the bikes are assembled but there are no enviro measures shown at the washinton fabrication facility where most of the power usage will be. is taiwan, where his wheelsets are built, better than china as far as enviromental policies are concerned. i do't think i could say that the article was hard hitting journalism, more like marketing spin. did you really look into the enviromental claims tony made? how can you compare his practices to anyone else's when you seem to be just taking his word on his enviro practices?

  10. #10
    I'm UTarded
    Reputation: powderboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    99
    In fairness to TE... my conversations with him have been open and forthright. I don't have any reason to question his word or his integrity, but I do recognize that he's pretty darn outspoken and stubborn in many ways. But, what business owner wouldn't be? And what business owner wouldn't be a teeny bit protective of what they have built with their blood, sweat and tears.

    I can definitely hear your questioning my research into other brands and getting all sides of the story, but I'm not a paid journalist... it's a blog. :-) Some stories are more thorough than others, but I should take that into consideration when compiling articles like this one.

    I just found the story interesting enough to share with my readers who can make their own decisions. I called out Ellsworth specifically because they are talking about these things. I haven't seen any other discussions going on with other manufacturers, so without calling them, I took a "check out what Ellsworth is doing" approach.

    If you know for sure that some of the counter-claims that have been made are 100% verifiably true, then bring them to the table. Otherwise it ends up being a "he said, she said" kind of deal.

    Like I said, I don't have any reason to question TE's ethics, but I should be more scrutinizing, I suppose.

    AND... yeah, the bicycle invention date did make me chuckle, but maybe Columbus rode a bike around the Santa Maria? :-)


    ALSO... why is this in the Turner forum anyway? Shouldn't we be talking about the new Sultan, RFX or other things more Turner-esque? ;-)

  11. #11
    I'm UTarded
    Reputation: powderboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    99
    Quote Originally Posted by qbert2000
    it's kind of funny that the solar panels and turbines are all installed at the san diego facillity where the bikes are assembled but there are no enviro measures shown at the washinton fabrication facility where most of the power usage will be. is taiwan, where his wheelsets are built, better than china as far as enviromental policies are concerned. i do't think i could say that the article was hard hitting journalism, more like marketing spin. did you really look into the enviromental claims tony made? how can you compare his practices to anyone else's when you seem to be just taking his word on his enviro practices?
    Like most people, I'm sure he purchases wind credit or geo-thermal energy credit to offset the use at other facilities. Many ski resorts purchase enough wind credits to cover their energy usage to be "energy neutral", but it doesn't necessarily mean "on-site energy neutral".

    And... your questioning my journalism... point taken. If I had the budget to travel to Ellsworth, Turner, Intense, Moots, etc. and audit their facilities, I would have gladly. But alas, it's a blog and not my full-time job. Someday... someday. :-)

    I do appreciate the call to "step up" though... hopefully I can continue to improve the content over time. If you click back to the old stuff from 1999 or 2000, you'll see that it has improved, most definitely.

  12. #12
    Rolling
    Reputation: lidarman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    11,117
    Quote Originally Posted by JmZ
    Alpenglow, that's 6 mins I won't get back.
    You can blame him for the first second that took you to the page. The remaining time is your fault.

    Turner preaching to the choir threads are always amusing.

  13. #13
    Roy
    Roy is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Roy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    2,040
    Quote Originally Posted by powderboy
    I don't have any reason to question his word or his integrity
    Good grief, you must be new to mtbr.

    Quote Originally Posted by powderboy
    but I should be more scrutinizing, I suppose.
    Ya think?

  14. #14
    I'm UTarded
    Reputation: powderboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    99
    Quote Originally Posted by Roy
    Good grief, you must be new to mtbr.



    Ya think?
    My BS meter has been turned on many times by stuff that Tony has mentioned, but, like I said every business owner has the right to toot his own horn.

    TE is a polarizing individual for sure, thanks for the reminder that I should dig a little deeper.

    One of the funniest TE-isms that I recall is how he pointed out the new Niner RIP 9 at the Outdoor Demo and specifically called it complex and worthless. I just bit my tongue because I had just gotten off the new RIP and absolutely loved it.

    Anyway... thanks for the beat-down everyone... I do appreciate the criticism and can take it like a man.

  15. #15
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    30,673
    Quote Originally Posted by powderboy

    One of the funniest TE-isms that I recall is how he pointed out the new Niner RIP 9 at the Outdoor Demo and specifically called it complex and worthless. I just bit my tongue because I had just gotten off the new RIP and absolutely loved it.
    Well, that's just it. There are very few manufacturers that take opportunities to rip on other manufacturer's designs. Why is it "ok" for Tony Ellsworth (as the face and owner of Ellsworth) to do this? The RIP has just as many "links" as any Ellsworth ICT bike, but as most of us know, that's not really the issue. The issue is how Tony slams other bikes and manufacturers (go watch the "ellsworth advantage" video on his website). WTF?
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    1,875
    powderboy, we realize you don't have a massive travel budget that allows you to check out in detail the enviro mfg practices of various companies. but in your blog post you basically said (i'm paraphrasing from memory): "OK i haven't checked into the practices of any other bike companies but here's what Ellsworth is saying and it sure sounds like they are the leader even though I haven't checked out the other companies or consulted an independent assessment but I have a strong hunch that Ellsworth is the green leader."

    I don't really care about ellsworth and i don't read much about them at all but even I had heard that their 'wind power' propaganda was only referring to their san diego office facility.

    even from your armchair you could have checked into these ellsworth claims or at least asked him some skeptical questions.

    there's a reason teh term 'greenwashing' was coined -- lotsa companies are guilty of it.

    Want a contrast? check out the green manufacturing information of Chris King. thorough, believable, and interesting for anyone who buys things made of aluminum and steel.

  17. #17
    I'm UTarded
    Reputation: powderboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    99
    Quote Originally Posted by frorider
    powderboy, we realize you don't have a massive travel budget that allows you to check out in detail the enviro mfg practices of various companies. but in your blog post you basically said (i'm paraphrasing from memory): "OK i haven't checked into the practices of any other bike companies but here's what Ellsworth is saying and it sure sounds like they are the leader even though I haven't checked out the other companies or consulted an independent assessment but I have a strong hunch that Ellsworth is the green leader."

    I don't really care about ellsworth and i don't read much about them at all but even I had heard that their 'wind power' propaganda was only referring to their san diego office facility.

    even from your armchair you could have checked into these ellsworth claims or at least asked him some skeptical questions.

    there's a reason teh term 'greenwashing' was coined -- lotsa companies are guilty of it.

    Want a contrast? check out the green manufacturing information of Chris King. thorough, believable, and interesting for anyone who buys things made of aluminum and steel.
    A pretty loose paraphrase, but I get the point if that's how it came across. I did look around at many other bike manufacturers and didn't find much. I know Rocky has a bit, but that's about all I could find. Thanks for the feedback... Definitely noted.

    I'll check out what Chris King is doing... I know they are solid in that regard.

    NOTE: I have made some modifications to the article, so if you've come into this late, you may wonder what the fuss is all about. I still believe that Ellsworth is doing a lot of things right and I'm stoked that TE is dedicated to sustainability. It just seems like a lot of people want to throw him under the bus and I guess I'm out of the loop as to why.

    Thanks for everyone's feedback and posts. Much appreciated and no harm no foul.
    Last edited by powderboy; 02-24-2009 at 05:25 PM.

  18. #18
    Brass Nipples!
    Reputation: Bob the Wheelbuilder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    2,006
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    (and the Ellsworth 'glipse', look it up)
    I looked up glipse and found this in the Urban Dictionary:

    Skipse Kai Glipse - 1 definition - Greek. Literally translates to "bend and lick ". Basically equivalent to "blow me", "eat me", "suck it", etc

    Great name for a bike, I think. More like what I'd expect from Cove, though.
    {Principal Skinner} Hmm. Whoever did this is in very deep trouble.
    {Martin} And a sloppy speller too. The preferred spelling of 'wiener' is w - i - e - n - e - r, although 'e - i' is an acceptable ethnic variant.

  19. #19
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    30,673
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob the Wheelbuilder
    I looked up glipse and found this in the Urban Dictionary:

    Skipse Kai Glipse - 1 definition - Greek. Literally translates to "bend and lick ". Basically equivalent to "blow me", "eat me", "suck it", etc

    Great name for a bike, I think. More like what I'd expect from Cove, though.
    I lost an "m" somewhere.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  20. #20
    Captain Underpants
    Reputation: Random Drivel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    4,280
    Quote Originally Posted by powderboy
    Anyway... thanks for the beat-down everyone... I do appreciate the criticism and can take it like a man.
    It took guts to step up to the plate. Not everyone would do the same.

  21. #21
    Rolling
    Reputation: lidarman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    11,117
    Quote Originally Posted by Random Drivel
    It took guts to step up to the plate. Not everyone would do the same.

    LMAO. In the Turner forum?

    The plate is covered with dirt. He was lucky to find it--he might even be faking it.....

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    1,875
    powderboy, my paraphrase was indeed pretty 'loose' but that was the point -- to make it explicit to you how many would interpret it.

    as for turner kool-aid factor, in my case i don't even currently own a turner but am seriously looking at the DW sultan.

  23. #23
    I'm UTarded
    Reputation: powderboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    99
    Quote Originally Posted by frorider
    powderboy, my paraphrase was indeed pretty 'loose' but that was the point -- to make it explicit to you how many would interpret it.

    as for turner kool-aid factor, in my case i don't even currently own a turner but am seriously looking at the DW sultan.
    If you get on a Sultan, you'll be stoked! I need to get on a 29er DW (Pivot Mach 429 or Sultan) to see how it performs with the big wheels, but in talking with Greg from Turner at Interbike and talking with a buddy who rode the Sultan at the Demo, it sounds money.

  24. #24
    ~~~~~~~~
    Reputation: airwreck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    5,873
    hijack....

    I loved this old review, glad it's still on your site.

    http://www.feedthehabit.com/mountain...n-bike-review/

  25. #25
    rr
    rr is offline
    I don't do PC
    Reputation: rr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    7,399
    Al Gore must be TE's hero

  26. #26
    I'm UTarded
    Reputation: powderboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    99
    Quote Originally Posted by airwreck
    hijack....

    I loved this old review, glad it's still on your site.

    http://www.feedthehabit.com/mountain...n-bike-review/
    That was a FUN bike... I still miss it sometimes. Definitely the best performing "big" bike I've ever owned. I think that was the last true freeridey/DH bike I've owned actually. Since then, I've gone for lighter weight and better all-around performance, but that was a fun bike, no question!

  27. #27
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    30,673
    Quote Originally Posted by powderboy
    That was a FUN bike... I still miss it sometimes. Definitely the best performing "big" bike I've ever owned. I think that was the last true freeridey/DH bike I've owned actually. Since then, I've gone for lighter weight and better all-around performance, but that was a fun bike, no question!
    That article has some very misleading information at the bottom. The RFX may have been "discontinued", but the 6-pack took the place of it, virtually the same bike for the same purpose, with slightly less weight. There was no huge gap in terms of the RFX, only that they changed the name from 6-pack back to RFX in 2007. The bike was there pretty much the entire time.

    That's the whole reason I bought the 6-pack, because it was the modern incarnation of the RFX, then it got updated again in 2007.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  28. #28
    Captain Underpants
    Reputation: Random Drivel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    4,280
    Quote Originally Posted by lidarman
    LMAO. In the Turner forum?

    The plate is covered with dirt. He was lucky to find it--he might even be faking it.....
    Or he might not. I don't get the feeling the guy is a shill like other unnamed posters (cough*roguerider*cough)

    But my vague comments about green biz practices still stand. Snake oil designed to assuage the guilt of yuppie consumerists.

  29. #29
    I'm UTarded
    Reputation: powderboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    99
    Holy smokes... tough crowd here in the Turner forums. ;-)

    I apologize for being "misleading" in the update to the original article (written in 2002) to simply show that the RFX was re-introduced. I didn't feel the need to dive into the geneology of the new RFX as it was irrelevant since those bikes (6-Pack, Route 66, Lucky 7, et. al.) were no longer available at the time of posting the update. I was merely interested in posting an update to the RFX since if anyone were to find that article (again, from 2002) it would have been in a google search for "Turner RFX", so they would really only be interested in the RFX, not an interesting sidenote as to the midevil wanderings of the RFX between 2004-2006.

    I'm well aware of what went on between 2004 and 2006 and I was actually the proud owner of one of the 4 Route 66 framesets that were produced. I'll drum up some pics if you're interested. :-)

    Thanks again... it's been fun. Feel free to post civil comments anytime on FeedTheHabit.com guys.

  30. #30
    t66
    t66 is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: t66's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    619
    Great write up on the 02' RFX back in the day. Still a great bike after all these years!

    Watch that TE guy. He's still FOC...as usual!
    FOR SALE: 2002 Turner RFX small frame, [url]Never mind I'm keeping her!

  31. #31
    banned
    Reputation: Jerk_Chicken's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    16,457
    The Turner bill for my 2006 is marked "RFX", not "Six Pack".

  32. #32
    Daniel the Dog
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    6,759

    I've been to their factory

    It really is impressive.

    Jaybo

Members who have read this thread: 0

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2019 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.