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  1. #1
    Moosehead
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    Anti-Squat Profiles: DWL vs Non-DWL Turners?

    Anyone happened to have seen these? Iheart? It would be interesting to compare the HL and TNT versions to the DWL same-model Turner.

    Note similar debate and histrionics on Ventana board, with Ventana obviously rocking the faux-bar, seat-stay pivot, or single-pivot design depending upon one's view. Chumbaemo's debate on this issue was certainly most entertaining.

    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=556294

  2. #2
    mtbr member
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    ChumbeEMO is very upset with you for digging this up. The trail experience is definitely enlightening but I would like to see this as well.

  3. #3
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    I think it's not possible to make a debate about Anti-squat here, I'll be similar or even worse that the ones in the ventana or Chumba forum...

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by moosehead
    Anyone happened to have seen these? Iheart? It would be interesting to compare the HL and TNT versions to the DWL same-model Turner.

    Note similar debate and histrionics on Ventana board, with Ventana obviously rocking the faux-bar, seat-stay pivot, or single-pivot design depending upon one's view. Chumbaemo's debate on this issue was certainly most entertaining.

    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=556294
    I will check later - but I think what you'll see with TNT or any single pivot for that matter is while it may be possible to acheive adequate anti squat for specific gear combinations, you won't be able to acheive the desired result for every gear combination.
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  5. #5
    Moosehead
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    Vrock, you may be correct, but where else would a reasonably valid debate over anti-squat exist but here in the Turner forum? Especially given evolution from HL to TNT to DWL, and given Homer love of charts and engineering.

    Iheart, my stoopid guy hypothesis is that Turner HL and TNT may have lower anti-squat readings perhaps similar to the Chumba and Ventana charts that were bantied about given those manufacturer's use of chain-stay and seat-stay pivots respectively. Do the DWL Turners exhibit that much more anti-squat readings than the older versions? My guess is yes, which is obviously part of the pitch and also helps explain what some have called a risky move into the next generation.

  6. #6
    Crazed Country Rebel
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    Quote Originally Posted by moosehead
    Vrock, you may be correct, but where else would a reasonably valid debate over anti-squat exist but here in the Turner forum? Especially given evolution from HL to TNT to DWL, and given Homer love of charts and engineering.

    Iheart, my stoopid guy hypothesis is that Turner HL and TNT may have lower anti-squat readings perhaps similar to the Chumba and Ventana charts that were bantied about given those manufacturer's use of chain-stay and seat-stay pivots respectively. Do the DWL Turners exhibit that much more anti-squat readings than the older versions? My guess is yes, which is obviously part of the pitch and also helps explain what some have called a risky move into the next generation.
    This is what I came up with thus far...
    Attached Images Attached Images
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  7. #7
    Moosehead
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    Thanks IHB. Would be interested in your interpretations vs. other non-DWL readings.

    Is there inherently less anti-squat in grannie gear due to less forward inertia and/or speed? Are those readings above the same as referenced under "Current Anti-Squat (a1)" in the Ventana thread screen photos (vs. the no-chain version or (a2))? Is it possible to tell from the Ventana thread screens which gears are being profiled?

  8. #8
    Crazed Country Rebel
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    Quote Originally Posted by moosehead
    Thanks IHB. Would be interested in your interpretations vs. other non-DWL readings.

    Is there inherently less anti-squat in grannie gear due to less forward inertia and/or speed? Are those readings above the same as referenced under "Current Anti-Squat (a1)" in the Ventana thread screen photos (vs. the no-chain version or (a2))? Is it possible to tell from the Ventana thread screens which gears are being profiled?
    There is generally more antisquat in granny gear than larger gears. In this instance I picked a few gear ranges that made sense for climbing - but antisquat will change dramatically with other gear combo's.

    The gearing in the Ventana thread was 32 front, 30 rear - I didn't show granny and big gear -just for the sake of time.

    I'm not convinced that DW is the best thing for every bike or every person - I've only owned one to date - the Ibis Mojo and found it to be a very, very good climber and decender. The only thing I noticed was pedalling out of the saddle through rocks, it would stiffen up and skip around a little bit.

    I chose the Flux (as of yesterday) to replace my Ventana Salty for my XC bike - not sure I would use DW for my longer travel bikes - but again, I've only owned one and things could change!
    Stupid, but sometimes witty. Occasionally brilliant. Slow and fat though.

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