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  1. #1
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    2012 5-Spot+Hammerschmidt? any inputs from DT?

    Hello DT, With the 2012 Spot having an ISCG tabs,
    Have it been tested for any incompatibility issue?
    Chainline with 2x10 RD and such?
    Last edited by Bullit_cn; 11-18-2011 at 08:44 AM.
    When trails gets tougher, Just stand up and deliver.

  2. #2
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    OK, the deal is;
    I have an opportunity to get a very good deal on a closeout sale for a Hammerschmidth FR.
    It is obviously that 2012 frames with ISCG tabs will not available till end of December or early January according to my LBS.

    While waiting for the frame, I might as well collect the parts that I need.

    So the questions is, is it safe to say, I should grab the great deal on a HS and hoping that everything will work just fine
    When trails gets tougher, Just stand up and deliver.

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    It's been said by DW a few times that the 22 tooth granny will not give you the best suspension performance when cruising under power at speed. there willbe more antisquat with the HS. It's not ideal in his opinion but to each his own.

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    Great! Thanks for pointing that out,
    I was too focus on the fitting issue that I missed to consider the effect on performance,
    sounds like my good deal on the HS is not a good deal at all,
    Thanks,
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  5. #5
    MK_
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullit_cn View Post
    Great! Thanks for pointing that out,
    I was too focus on the fitting issue that I missed to consider the effect on performance,
    sounds like my good deal on the HS is not a good deal at all,
    Thanks,
    If you ever plan on climbing, you'll be pedaling in a granny anyway. This whole optimal chainring business is a bit whack. Yes, when you're hammering out the bike path you won't be at max efficiency but does that really matter?

    _MK

    Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, first make sure that you are not just surrounded by a*holes

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK_ View Post
    If you ever plan on climbing, you'll be pedaling in a granny anyway. This whole optimal chainring business is a bit whack. Yes, when you're hammering out the bike path you won't be at max efficiency but does that really matter?

    _MK
    It's about anti-squat, not efficiency. There is more anti-squat in the granny ring, meant to counteract front wheel rise during steep climbing. Having that level of anti-squat all the time would suck IMO.

  7. #7
    MK_
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyN View Post
    It's about anti-squat, not efficiency. There is more anti-squat in the granny ring, meant to counteract front wheel rise during steep climbing. Having that level of anti-squat all the time would suck IMO.
    OK, anti-squat, whatever.

    _MK

    Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, first make sure that you are not just surrounded by a*holes

  8. #8
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    Perception

    IMO, If you want to ride HS go for it. DW is correct from the math side and the whys have been discussed already , but it is my opinion that you will not be putting out near the effort on the flatter sections of trail that you do on a climb, for most riders the input to the drive train is lower as the trail levels out therefore the perception of activity loss a non issue.

    I rode Desert Classic in Phoenix, a rolling semi rocky trail with a lot of shallow inclines one would normally ride in the 32or34 ring, but I put the chain on the 22 and rode at a group ride pace that I guessed most trail/AM riders would keep and the suspension seemed fine. I am confident that if I would have put the chain on one of the smallest cogs in back and really started to haul ass trying to emulate the amount of force on my pedals as one encounters on a climb then the higher speeds and higher anti squat negativity that DW sees in the math may be noticeable, to at least some riders. But to some riders it would just be firm and fast feeling. Perception is always a matter of perspective.

    DT

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    Do whatever the hell you please to it; _dw isn't your master.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes View Post
    IMO, If you want to ride HS go for it. DW is correct from the math side and the whys have been discussed already , but it is my opinion that you will not be putting out near the effort on the flatter sections of trail that you do on a climb, for most riders the input to the drive train is lower as the trail levels out therefore the perception of activity loss a non issue.

    I rode Desert Classic in Phoenix, a rolling semi rocky trail with a lot of shallow inclines one would normally ride in the 32or34 ring, but I put the chain on the 22 and rode at a group ride pace that I guessed most trail/AM riders would keep and the suspension seemed fine. I am confident that if I would have put the chain on one of the smallest cogs in back and really started to haul ass trying to emulate the amount of force on my pedals as one encounters on a climb then the higher speeds and higher anti squat negativity that DW sees in the math may be noticeable, to at least some riders. But to some riders it would just be firm and fast feeling. Perception is always a matter of perspective.

    DT
    Thank you guys and to you DT,
    Fair enough,
    I'm happy its a YES
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  11. #11
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    Actually, riding in the granny gear was the reason for me to sell my 5Spot DW and get an old RFX frame. So I wouldn't want to go with a Hammerschmidt for the 5Spot DW.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zonoskar View Post
    Actually, riding in the granny gear was the reason for me to sell my 5Spot DW and get an old RFX frame. So I wouldn't want to go with a Hammerschmidt for the 5Spot DW.
    interesting input,
    care to explain more please?
    When trails gets tougher, Just stand up and deliver.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullit_cn View Post
    interesting input,
    care to explain more please?
    Like said before in this thread, riding on the granny will activate the DW to generate more anti-squat. In my case this would generate bobbing (but not from compressing the suspension, but extending on each pedal stroke and then settling back down) when climbing really steep inclines which I didn't like. With the hammerschmidt small ring, I would be worried for this behavior to appear in normal riding, although DT rightfully states that you probably won't notice it since it takes a lot of force to generate this squat induced bobbing. But I would make sure before spending the money on a HM setup (that's the reason you ask here I presume).

  14. #14
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    The shock definitely rises out of its sag when you pedal hard. I see mine do it in the 32T ring. It's a weird thing that took some time to get used. Also, I kind of thought the suspension performed best descending with a big ring. Maybe it was just my perception since there is less chain slap and rattling when in a 44T. What you think is happening and what really is happening can often be two different things.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by zonoskar View Post
    Like said before in this thread, riding on the granny will activate the DW to generate more anti-squat. In my case this would generate bobbing (but not from compressing the suspension, but extending on each pedal stroke and then settling back down) when climbing really steep inclines which I didn't like. With the hammerschmidt small ring, I would be worried for this behavior to appear in normal riding, although DT rightfully states that you probably won't notice it since it takes a lot of force to generate this squat induced bobbing. But I would make sure before spending the money on a HM setup (that's the reason you ask here I presume).
    Thank you, very enlightening
    another knowledge learned,
    When trails gets tougher, Just stand up and deliver.

  16. #16
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    OP mentioned getting the FR HS which has the 24T...so maybe a little better vs the 22 ring (there is a 23T aftermarket ring also)

    I would say go for it, especially after what Turner said and the HS being a good deal. Someone out there will always be willing to buy it if it's not your cup of tea. If I had those ISCG tabs I would try one for sure to form my own opinion. For me the 2102 5 Spot now hits on so many of my wish buttons....except the wallet. Bummer!
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  17. #17
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    Have you actually ridden a HS? I've heard reported that it's like riding through mud in the higher gears. It would certainly be something I'd want to try out before purchasing.
    I'm on 1:1 lowest gear at the moment and climb lots, want something lower but only on a 32T cassette.

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