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  1. #1
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    2011 spot v 09-10 spot

    As the title,any ride reviews?

  2. #2
    DGC
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    working on it

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pink
    As the title,any ride reviews?
    I am coming from the 09 onto the 11, only 2 rides on it. More info in a few weeks once I get a few more rides on it.

    DGC
    OUCH...!!!!!!

  3. #3
    MountainGoat aka OldGoat
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    What were the changes that Turner made on the 2011?
    Vote with your feet.
    No bike is perfect!

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    Quote Originally Posted by pachaven
    What were the changes that Turner made on the 2011?
    Mainly geo changes, a bit lower and slacker. New 44mm headtube and ano finish as well. Oh, and we have the burrito replacing the taco.

  5. #5
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    What about RP23? Do you still need to make the DGC shim modification? Does it come with the newer BV version?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cable0guy
    What about RP23? Do you still need to make the DGC shim modification? Does it come with the newer BV version?
    DGC shim is mainly based on rider preference; more progressive vs. more linear. No boostvalve air shocks on DW Turners, negative impact on ride quality.

  7. #7
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    I thought DT asked fox to shim the shocks on the 2011 5 Spot or did I dream that up?

    BTW the 2009 spot blew me away, but the 2011 Spot is just on another planet The 2011 is quality on the DH; it feels as stable as my 08 RFX and it turns better and it’s easier to pop off logs, drops and jumps (than my 09)
    Last edited by Jamie_MTB; 12-22-2010 at 11:02 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by toons101
    I thought DT asked fox to shim the shocks on the 2011 5 Spot or did I dream that up?

    BTW the 2009 spot blew me away, but the 2011 Spot is just on another planet The 2011 is quality on the DH; it feels as stable as my 08 RFX and it turns better and itís easier to pop of logs, drops and jumps (than my 09)
    Any noticeable difference in the wheel base between the 09 and 11?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by toons101
    I thought DT asked fox to shim the shocks on the 2011 5 Spot or did I dream that up?
    It's true. From this post:

    We have been shipping RP23s with reduced air volume for a few months. After riding DGCs shims off and on in 2009 and early this year, we spec'd the Fox with an air volume reducer. Seems these are not un common as OE's create a volume that is between the small and large air can. The original thinking was for big riders, or riders that land hard to use standard air cans, and most riders that want to get full travel more often to use the big can. Well, most rider like getting full travel and some too much. So, starting early this summer and moving forward the air volume is adjusted for more of most.

  10. #10
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    Thanks Marshall

    for re confirming that. For 2012 Fox will offer snap in reducers of various size, nice, as everyone is different.

    Of course the wheel base is longer, slacken the HA and that is what happens. And the great part is that the bike got more stable as well.

    DT

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by pachaven
    What were the changes that Turner made on the 2011?
    Since there have been a lot of the same questions about the 2011 changes, I compiled a few of DT's answers below. I also included the old and new geometry charts for comparison.

    2009/10 geometry:


    2011 geometry:


    Rear triangle cable routing for 2011 will be improved on the Flux and Sultan to look like the 5 Spot of the last few months.

    There will be another 3 guides for dropper posts under the top tube parallel to the front derailer guides. Or you can switch the post and mech on the guides as you wish.

    The head tube is NOT tapered, it is over sized to fit the tapered forks, but it is a straight tube with 44mm bores on each end. Same with Sultan. One cannot use a tapered fork with an AngleSet in a 1.5 either, so this provides the same benefits of tapered fork use in a straight tube that is not the size of a PBR can on a trail bike. I like it. If one does not want to run a tapered fork 'cause it is just a marketing fad then one can use a ZeroStack lower, or if you want the bigger lower bearing of 44XX step the crown race down to a 1.125"

    We have been shipping RP23s with reduced air volume for a few months. After riding DGCs shims off and on in 2009 and early this year, we spec'd the Fox with an air volume reducer. Seems these are not un common as OE's create a volume that is between the small and large air can. The original thinking was for big riders, or riders that land hard to use standard air cans, and most riders that want to get full travel more often to use the big can. Well, most rider like getting full travel and some too much. So, starting early this summer and moving forward the air volume is adjusted for more of most.

    DT

    Not 1.5, it is 44 so that it can take a tapered fork, not a 1.5 fork. Looks real nice.

    Until King starts production of 142x12 rear axle conversion, the 5Spot, Sultan and Flux will have drop outs. You guys have done nothing to hammer them with e mails to get a conversion for the coup de gras of the QR roadie stuff on mtbs.

    Same travel, 13.4 BB, same as 09 with 140 fork.

    One bike is never enough and with a shorter rear shock and Totem on the front a Highline is a great occasional lift bomber or shuttle rig, hard to get rid of that in my mind. But the old RFX was never a favorite, trade it or sell it for a fast trail bike that can climb and corner better. Depending on your budget and thirst for changes either 5 Spot would raise your trail bike experience over the old RFX.

    DT
    Sorry, I thought I had been clear, the 5 Spot head tube is NOT tapered, but it will take a tapered steerer fork with a 44XX lower head bearing and a ZS top, effectively lowering the hands. One can also use a straight steerer with either a ZS lower, this would be a top candidate for a 160 user that one did not want to jack the front end and BB too tall, or with a 150 fork and they want to drop the nose 'cause the new HA is too slack. Or one could use a crown race for big lower bearing and small steerer and have the ability to change to a tapered fork later with just a crown race change.
    12.25mm lower stack height is what the 44XX measures I have on my desk.

    13.4" BB height is with 12.25mm lower head set and 150mm fork.

    The 5 Spots will not have ISCG. IF you want ISCG we have an extra box of the 05 tabs used on the DHR, and we can weld them on for a nominal fee. This will be available on the Raw frames only as we do not want to grind off the anodizing of the black or silver frames to weld on a tab. IF the tabs are sold thru lightning fast and the option is a hit, then we will know we should make it standard. I am betting not, not yet anyway. Even in Downieville this summer the majority of 140mm bikes were running lightish parts and XC drive trains.

    Now that King will have a 142 x 12 sometime in the near future, when I switch to that type of dropouts on all the frames ya'll will defend the change to anyone else that crys about their brand X hubset that does not offer the conversion, after all CK is the slowest component company to adapt right, any brand that adapts after this must be junk. The reason I have keyed off King is that I know for a fact that there are a great number of Turner Bike riders with King wheels, they last forever and cost a lot making an axle conversion like this very important to a lot of people with 2-3 CK wheelsets in the garage.

    I am sure that the request from companies of all sizes for AngleSets in all kinds of configs is long and I assure you that Turner Bikes with the 44mm HT is on that list some where. I chose the 44 instead of 1.5 for my reasons, thats the cool part of this job!
    More 44 headset info:
    https://www.turnerbikes.com/010/010tech/TR44_TURNER.pdf

    Greg was correct, the XO front derailer will not go low enough for a proper distance from a 39-26 XO crank combo. It is not the gusset the limits the derailer from sliding down but the weld joint with the tube and machine part right behind the bulk of the front derailer.

    I am going to throw a chain on it and see if it will shift? If not, change the ring size to 28-42 and ride it.

    DT
    The 09-10 was 69 HA with a 140, or about 68.6 HA with a 150.

    The Pike is shorter than modern 150s so you are either going to end up steeper. Get a Revelation, PUSH even does a Revelation with coil spring kit if that is your reason for keeping the Pike.

    DT
    Slacker HA on the 5 Spot will not make it like the RFX, at least not even close to the proto geometry and contruction currently in field. You must be confusing it with the RFX of the past. This 5 Spot will still be a 5 Spot and with the slacker HA will be more stable. The BB will be back to 13.4 which is where it was in 2009 when equipped with 140 fork, now it will be 13.4 with a 150 fork, but slacker. Think Super D bike. Faster down, with minimal change in accuracy on the climbs. I am not turning it into a belly dragging mini sled, still 5 Spot, new style. IF one were to put a 160 class fork on it the BB will still be well in the acceptable range and one will get the slackening they desire to go with bigger fork.
    re: rear shock sag-

    I would not run more than 17mm, anywhere between 15 and 17 is the way I like the bike to handle. Less sag means higher BB and steeper angles, and vice versa. My wife was complaining about hitting her pedals on some rough trail the other day, put 5psi in it and Voila! Complaints stopped.

    DT

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes
    For 2012 Fox will offer snap in reducers of various size, nice, as everyone is different.
    Wonder if it will ever occur to them to let the user tweak (okay, more like overhaul) the spring curve of their air forks?
    ''It seems like a bit of a trend, everyone trying to make things longer over the last couple of years" Sam Hill

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by miles e
    Wonder if it will ever occur to them to let the user tweak (okay, more like overhaul) the spring curve of their air forks?
    You can. Just add/remove oil from the top of the left (air) side - as long as there is oil over the piston you are fine.
    A green bird with a red body. We could look it up in a book. Or we could look up

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiwirider
    You can. Just add/remove oil from the top of the left (air) side - as long as there is oil over the piston you are fine.
    I have heard of people trying that, with limited success. I'm pretty sure if it were a panacea than the forks wouldn't have such a bad rep for not getting full travel. Worth a try though, thanks for the reminder.
    ''It seems like a bit of a trend, everyone trying to make things longer over the last couple of years" Sam Hill

  15. #15
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    I think that with those improvements the 2011 5 Spot now is on the pace in terms of HA BB and SA
    basically what I commented on some time back ! and got shot down in flames Ha ha
    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.ph...ghlight=dogvet

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogvet
    I think that with those improvements the 2011 5 Spot now is on the pace in terms of HA BB and SA
    basically what I commented on some time back ! and got shot down in flames Ha ha
    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.ph...ghlight=dogvet
    Isn't it ironic?
    I was made an outcast by preaching for a lower and slacker spot. Now all of a sudden, it's the latest rage in Turner land. Go figure.
    ****

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade
    Isn't it ironic?
    I was made an outcast by preaching for a lower and slacker spot. Now all of a sudden, it's the latest rage in Turner land. Go figure.
    Preaching? Oh, that's what that was...

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmac
    Preaching? Oh, that's what that was...
    I do recall you refering to me as rroeder during that time period...
    ****

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade
    I do recall you refering to me as rroeder during that time period...
    Now that I have seen the pics, I should seek your forgiveness...

    It is interesting that a VOCAL few were whining their butts off and a short while later DT comes out with the 2011 geo. I would hate to think that DT was influenced by the annoying whining and would be much happier thinking he had it in mind all the time. I probably don't want to know the truth.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmac
    Now that I have seen the pics, I should seek your forgiveness...

    It is interesting that a VOCAL few were whining their butts off and a short while later DT comes out with the 2011 geo. I would hate to think that DT was influenced by the annoying whining and would be much happier thinking he had it in mind all the time. I probably don't want to know the truth.
    Meh, it probably was not the whining of the vocal few, but the voices inside his head that made him change the geo. If that's the case, the 2012 5 spot is going to be even better!

    BTW, I'm feeling much better now that I'm back on my meds.
    ****

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    Suspect even DT has to go back to the cad cam, ride a few different bikes in the same class and evolve his designs, once someone has put that little niggling doubt into the system that the peer group competitors may be slicker, fitter and quicker!!
    At the end of the day I admire him for altering the angles to what they are now and creating (IMHO) a front end that is worthy of the fabulous DW link back end.

  22. #22
    Daniel the Dog
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    Anyboy like the old geometry better?

    Anyone enjoy the old geometry better or do have no idea? You would throw a 140/150 fork on it and don't feel a need for a bigger fork?
    Last edited by Jaybo; 01-16-2011 at 11:26 AM.

  23. #23
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    For what it's worth I prefer the '10 geometry by the numbers. I prefer a bit more agility in a trail bike than most of today's downhill influenced trail bikes allow.

    It's beginning to sound rhetorical but the 09/10 may serve some better based on where and how they ride. I'm certain the 2011 is an awesome ride, while a bit more stable and less agile than the 09/10.
    "...like sex with the trail." - Boe

  24. #24
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    Interesting

    Quote Originally Posted by stumblemumble
    For what it's worth I prefer the '10 geometry by the numbers. I prefer a bit more agility in a trail bike than most of today's downhill influenced trail bikes allow.

    It's beginning to sound rhetorical but the 09/10 may serve some better based on where and how they ride. I'm certain the 2011 is an awesome ride, while a bit more stable and less agile than the 09/10.
    The trend is to go lower and slacker on these bikes, so it is a good decision by Turner. However, with these changes you certainly change the type of bike it is and that may not sit well with all. I have mixed feelings about throwing some big old Lyric on a 5 Spot because I would start looking at true 160 mm bikes to balance out the ride. If I was Turner I would take the next step and make the 5 Spot a 6 Spot and call it good I would then make the RFX a true 7" bike and call it good.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by stumblemumble
    For what it's worth I prefer the '10 geometry by the numbers. I prefer a bit more agility in a trail bike than most of today's downhill influenced trail bikes allow.

    It's beginning to sound rhetorical but the 09/10 may serve some better based on where and how they ride. I'm certain the 2011 is an awesome ride, while a bit more stable and less agile than the 09/10.
    x 2
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  26. #26
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    I have been looking jealously at all the new Ď11s (currently on a í10) but recently replaced my Van32 with a Coil Lyrik (not used the U-turn yet). It definitely slacks out the geo a little which was something I (conceptually) liked about the í11 but it (obviously) hasnít dropped the BB which I also like. I occasionally feel like an old timer liking the BB a little higher than the vogue but I like what I like. Even on the í10 I find I have to file down the big ring teeth from all the rock contact and on the í11 I may have to abandon the big ring altogether and get a bash ring which is not my preference (I use the big ring mostly riding to and from the trails but also sometimes on the trails).

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by stumblemumble
    For what it's worth I prefer the '10 geometry by the numbers. I prefer a bit more agility in a trail bike than most of today's downhill influenced trail bikes allow.

    It's beginning to sound rhetorical but the 09/10 may serve some better based on where and how they ride. I'm certain the 2011 is an awesome ride, while a bit more stable and less agile than the 09/10.
    I'm on '10 with a lyrik and while I could use a little slacker HA from time to time I smash my cranks, pedals and bash ring so frequently I cannot imaging a lower BB.

  28. #28
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    Its just great to have a 2011 turner with the new angles running a 140 fork to match the back end that is slack and lowish!
    Best ever Spot so far.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogvet
    Its just great to have a 2011 turner with the new angles running a 140 fork to match the back end that is slack and lowish!
    Best ever Spot so far.
    dogvet have you got a new 2011 spot?I have only had a couple of rides on my 2011 so early days

  30. #30
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    my '09 Spot with 160mm Lyrik is sitting around 68 degrees HA which is great for my terrain that involves alot of twisty turns. I also wouldn't want the BB any lower due to the rocky chunk, the clearance is nice. '11 Spot with a 160mm fork would put the HA around 67 I'm assuming, sounds intreguing, would be a blast on the long DH's, but might suffer a bit on the twisty singletrack compared to my '09. I would imagine it would be a touch less agile as well with the longer WB. I think I'll keep my 09.

  31. #31
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    Unclekittykiller,
    you are slightly missing the point, the new Spot has a 67.5 degree head angle with a 140 fork (same as rear shock) it doesnot need a huge fork on the front (which by default alters all the balance of the bike). it works as it is designed by DT as a slack lowish 140 light weight trail bike,
    Magic!

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by DGC
    I am coming from the 09 onto the 11, only 2 rides on it. More info in a few weeks once I get a few more rides on it.

    DGC

    DGC, my late model '10 has bearings as opposed to bushings at the upper mount of the RP23. I assume your '11 has bearings but did you '09 have bearings or did that shock have the traditional bushings.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogvet
    Unclekittykiller,
    you are slightly missing the point, the new Spot has a 67.5 degree head angle with a 140 fork (same as rear shock) it doesnot need a huge fork on the front (which by default alters all the balance of the bike). it works as it is designed by DT as a slack lowish 140 light weight trail bike,
    Magic!

    Yes, but what if you want to run a 160mm fork?

    7lbs is not a light weight trail bike.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogvet
    Unclekittykiller,
    you are slightly missing the point, the new Spot has a 67.5 degree head angle with a 140 fork (same as rear shock) it doesnot need a huge fork on the front (which by default alters all the balance of the bike). it works as it is designed by DT as a slack lowish 140 light weight trail bike,
    Magic!
    not sure what point i am missing, i was basically justifying to myself why i am not in a hurry to replace my 09 with an 11. i understand the differences between the two models, and i prefer to ride the Lyrik over a smaller class fork for performance reasons. i would put that fork on the bike no matter what the geo was. and since we are being technical, i believe the frame was designed with a 67.7 HA using a 150mm fork, as all the fork manufacturers have moved to 150mm.
    but i agree, the bike surely is magic no matter how it is setup.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus
    Yes, but what if you want to run a 160mm fork?

    7lbs is not a light weight trail bike.

    The geo is listed with a 150mm fork and an external cup headset. A 160mm fork with a zero stack headset would produce similar geo.
    7# (6.75# for a med) may not weight weenie light, but the frame is stiff, solid and easily builds up around 28# or less with durable parts.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by unclekittykiller
    i am not in a hurry to replace my 09 with an 11. i would put that fork on the bike no matter what the geo was. but i agree, the bike surely is magic no matter how it is setup.
    +1. I only have 4 rides on the coil Lyrik but what a difference. It's a huge upgrade from my previous Van32 TA. I always felt that my Fox (even though a coil) was under matched to the rear suspension. The Lyrik makes the bike feel way more balanced (in terms of plush) and truly rocks the descents.

  37. #37
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    Mr Pink
    A mate who works a lot in the US bought one over there and imported it, he is now working overseas for a few months and the bike has joined my stable in the interim!

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogvet
    Mr Pink
    A mate who works a lot in the US bought one over there and imported it, he is now working overseas for a few months and the bike has joined my stable in the interim!
    How does it compare to the orange 5?

  39. #39
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    TOONS 101
    Actually very similar as 18" Five and large Spot have almost identical geometry with a 140 mm fork, Spot for same build slightly heavier, DW link is probably better than 5 with RP23, but less ground "feel" (v subjective), but the Five with a CCDD shock set up correctly blows the DW away! but adds considerable weight unless go titanium spring route.
    I have always thought that Orange have been well ahead of the curve re geometry esp HA BB and wheel base, so I have been very used to slacker bikes for some time and love the speed and security they deal on anything gravity fed, hence when I first rode an 09 Spot I was disappointed. The 2011 Spot is now "spot" on!
    (IMHO)
    However I am not quite as gung ho with the Spot as I dont own it!!

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogvet
    TOONS 101
    Actually very similar as 18" Five and large Spot have almost identical geometry with a 140 mm fork, Spot for same build slightly heavier, DW link is probably better than 5 with RP23, but less ground "feel" (v subjective), but the Five with a CCDD shock set up correctly blows the DW away! but adds considerable weight unless go titanium spring route.
    I have always thought that Orange have been well ahead of the curve re geometry esp HA BB and wheel base, so I have been very used to slacker bikes for some time and love the speed and security they deal on anything gravity fed, hence when I first rode an 09 Spot I was disappointed. The 2011 Spot is now "spot" on!
    (IMHO)
    However I am not quite as gung ho with the Spot as I dont own it!!
    Cheers for the info.

    BTW you should try riding the 2011 5 spot with a CCDB

  41. #41
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    There seems to be some anecdotal evidence that the CCDB works better with some suspension types than others, and the improvements seem best with SP style suspensions. But I have not tried the CCDB on the Spot as it is not my bike! The fact that DW designs his anti squat suspension dynamics around a specific shock/ tune, so on that basis alone the CCDB may not provide a better platform for the DW link on the Spot.

  42. #42
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    it did for me :)

    Quote Originally Posted by dogvet
    There seems to be some anecdotal evidence that the CCDB works better with some suspension types than others, and the improvements seem best with SP style suspensions. But I have not tried the CCDB on the Spot as it is not my bike! The fact that DW designs his anti squat suspension dynamics around a specific shock/ tune, so on that basis alone the CCDB may not provide a better platform for the DW link on the Spot.
    In the real world the difference is like night and day.

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    Thats good to hear, do you have a CCDB installed on your Spot?
    My CCDB came on loan from Orange! and transformed the rear suspension once set up, Didn't want to give it back!!

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogvet
    Thats good to hear, do you have a CCDB installed on your Spot?
    My CCDB came on loan from Orange! and transformed the rear suspension once set up, Didn't want to give it back!!
    Yep


    my bike by james_ferguson, on Flickr

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    And with a titanium spring? looks fantastic.
    Enjoy

  46. #46
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    Toons 101
    what other bikes do you have?

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogvet
    Toons 101
    what other bikes do you have?
    I'll PM you

  48. #48
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    Toons 101
    have replied via PM

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