07 Magura Louise Bats Venti Rotors- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    07 Magura Louise Bats Venti Rotors

    07 Magura Louise Bats Venti Rotors <o></o>
    <hr align="center" color="#b7b7b7" noshade="noshade" size="1" width="100%">
    <!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->Ok so last week we received 2 sets of the new 07 Magura Louise Carbon Bat disc brakes with the new Venti Rotors.

    Both sets were to mounted to 2 Spots Mudgy's and TA's

    Mudgys setup
    Fork Marz 06 AM 1 - Fr 180mm Venti rotor with #6 PM to PM adaptor rear 160mm Venti rotor with standard IS to PM adaptor.

    TAs setup
    Fork Sram PIKE 454 06 -Fr 180mm Venti Rotor with #12 IS to IS adaptor rear 160mm Venti rotor #12 IS to IS adaptor.

    Both sets are full BATs with carbon this and that and ti bolts yum


    Looks wise and quality they seem right up there and I impressed, my only one gripe is I wish the bat adjust dials were alloy fussy I know bit I think on such a high product the plastic dial lets the overall chillis down so 9 outta 10, Id give 10.10 for alloy dials.

    Moving on to installation, cables are ample length and will need to be trimmed, which is very easy to do if you have the right tools

    Magura supply nice little extras to refit once shortened give those guys another chilli

    Magura supply nice little extras to refit once shortened give those guys another chilli<!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shapetype id="_x0000_t75" coordsize="21600,21600" o:spt="75" oreferrelative="t" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" filled="f" stroked="f"> <v:stroke joinstyle="miter"/> <v:formulas> <v:f eqn="if lineDrawn pixelLineWidth 0"/> <v:f eqn="sum @0 1 0"/> <v:f eqn="sum 0 0 @1"/> <v:f eqn="prod @2 1 2"/> <v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelWidth"/> <v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelHeight"/> <v:f eqn="sum @0 0 1"/> <v:f eqn="prod @6 1 2"/> <v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelWidth"/> <v:f eqn="sum @8 21600 0"/> <v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelHeight"/> <v:f eqn="sum @10 21600 0"/> </v:formulas> <vath o:extrusionok="f" gradientshapeok="t" o:connecttype="rect"/> <o:lock v:ext="edit" aspectratio="t"/> </v:shapetype><v:shape id="_x0000_i1025" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style='width:11.25pt; height:11.25pt'> <v:imagedata src="file:///C:\DOCUME~1\BradP\LOCALS~1\Temp\msohtml1\05\clip_i mage001.gif" o:href="https://forums.mtbr.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif"/> </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]--><!--[endif]-->

    I installed Mudgy's bike first just an aside I’ve had Magura FRs on the AM 1 06 before and I would say with Post mount the disc tolerance between the rotor and fork is very close but never caused any rub previously.

    New Louise’s on AM1 well lets start with the calipers and levers, everything mounted up easy peasy and you don't even need to read the instructions its so simple no spacers required its fool proof nice the new PM calipers are very sweet and look powerful.
    Levers mounted the bars sweet although I would like split perch my only other gripe as I'd like to use Srams matchmaker plus it unclutters the bars, I like my levers (brake very inboard moto style especially with a brake so powerful with such great feel 2 fingers are not necessary so feel is important.

    Right mounting rotors to the wheels standard 6 bolt pattern no brainer very sweet mounted the rear wheel slotted into place nicely not I loosed the top bolts on the caliper to the adaptor as this is the adjust similar to avid and Hayes squeeze rear brake lever re tighten bolts and now have a nicely and running silently wheel.

    Front wheel, um mounted ok followed the same adjustment phase, spun the wheel um rub straight away?


    On closer inspection due to the close tolerance of the PM Marz setup the new Venti rotor has a molded shape around the 6 bolt outer holes this molding rubs on the lower inner leg BUGGER, no fear out comes the dremel thanks to the crazy swiss dude! So some fine tuning to the inner leg no more rub and all is running sweet.

    This I suspect will affect all PM forks, Manitou, New Rock Shox PM, and Marz of course note this will only happen with the Venti Rotor as I said should be no probs with a little modification but obviously not something Magura planned on
    .

    Well my setup followed along the same lines though no mods need to the PIKE and I had mine installed in less than half the time no probs and drag free.

    I noticed a weight difference over my older Louise FRs even with the Venti rotors, I ran the same size (180/160mm).

    A few quick runs around the house showed some bedding in was needed but I had stopping power straight away nice, and they felt great.

    Weekend, Saturday a big ride was required by me and Momentus, Mudgy had gone awol to Welly and hasn't even seen his new brakes on his Spot yet, though he was there at the unveiling at the coffee shop pics on my RFX post with coffee cup
    .


    So onto Saturday, and my fav spot beckoned I always feel powerful here

    and its where I got my handle TA its always an adventure ride, plenty of forest rods to warm up on and the narliest rootiest fest of trees gorse bushes mud wild boar and us.
    A good place to break in some new brakes


    First half hour warm up on a forestry road and off to find those new trails the boys have been building, mandatory squeeze on the levers and I could feel the brakes getting stronger with each pull.
    I guess it took half an hour or so for a good bed in and probably a full hour for the brakes to come up to full power, plenty of steep long downhill’s helped to get enough heat into the pads and also allow the fluid to bring the brakes up to speed.

    Compared to my current Louise FRs the current version before the Louise BATs they feel more powerful and have great feel maybe even better feel which really impressed me as my old FRs run Goodridge hoses and kool stop pads both of which enhanced the strengths of the older FRs.
    So good so far, as we dropped into some narly single track the rotors really showed there quality and they are just fantastic they feel really strong and way more than what is needed on the Spot but due to the feel these brakes have its nice to have so much power which is also usable.

    Overall I’m stoked I ended up with these brakes at this stage the power is awesome the weight is impressive they are easy to install they are quite even after getting covered in mud its taken my braking to another level which is hard to do as I think I already had the best brakes in the bunch


    I'm still nervous with Carbon levers (crash wise) but I’ve always run y brakes moto style the bolt tightened enough to hold the lever in place but in the event of a crash the lever would move on the bar and not brake with the carbons yet to be seen touch wood.

    I will probably install Goodridge hoses again at a later date but for the first time I would say this is not a necessary but more for bling or really long DHs where heat may get excessive I’m a pumper myself not a dragger.

    To finish I love these brakes so far and I think they match anything out there plus with a 5 year leak warranty and improvements you can't lose on these puppies enjoy and remember the PM if you use Venti rotors.<o></o>
    <o> </o>
    Last edited by trailadvent; 10-29-2006 at 03:13 AM.
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  2. #2
    trail fairy
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    1: TAs Pike and adaptor 180mm Venti rotor
    2: TAs Spot rear 160m Venti rotor
    3: Mudgy's AM 1 with #6 Adaptor
    4: Mudgy's rear Venti
    5: AM 1 Fork rotor clearance
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  3. #3
    trail fairy
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    6: AM 1 dremeled
    7: AM 1 another view of the handy work
    8: Brake levers TAs Spot
    9: Side view muddy Spot
    10: Muddy trail Momentus coming outta the Toi Toi's
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  4. #4
    Nightriding rules SuperModerator
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    Thanks for the review.. they looks really sweet... I have been looking at the alloy version of these brakes... though I just got new levers for my XTs, so i will probably wait a bit...

    Good to hear the performance is there.... I might get the "regular" BATs, I just saw them for 230 EUR for a 203/180 set.. so it's getting very tempting...
    Last edited by crisillo; 10-29-2006 at 04:52 AM.

  5. #5
    No, that's not phonetic
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    I guess I am still missing the point of the venti rotors. Did you brakes suffer from major fade where the supposed extra cooling from the venti would have helped? It seems like truing the rotors will be harder now, and needing to shave you fork to fit those things seems sorta bad.

    Anyway, I have a set of the non-carbon BATs sitting here and some Louise FR too, and will slap them on a scale. The new styles do seem heavier to me too with all those fancy adapters and all. The BAT works well though, I will say that.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    I guess I am still missing the point of the venti rotors. Did you brakes suffer from major fade where the supposed extra cooling from the venti would have helped? It seems like truing the rotors will be harder now, and needing to shave you fork to fit those things seems sorta bad.

    Anyway, I have a set of the non-carbon BATs sitting here and some Louise FR too, and will slap them on a scale. The new styles do seem heavier to me too with all those fancy adapters and all. The BAT works well though, I will say that.
    I could see the point of the Venti rotors if they were a real red j/k....sort of, though Louise is a fantastic brake regardless.

  7. #7
    No, that's not phonetic
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    Here are the weights. This is for the lever, hose, and caliper. The 06 Louise FR does not need an adapter to mount, the BAT does- always, unless you are mounting it to a PM fork and running a 160mm rotor

    Magura Louise BAT (non-carbon), rear, adapter for 160mm rotor: 313g
    Magura Louise FR, rear, ready for 160mm rotor: 278g

    The FR does not need any adapters to mount to an IS fork running a 180mm rotor, or to the frame running a 160mm rotor. If you want to move up in rotor size, the Louise FR adapter and two extra bolts run about 45g per brake. I imagine the BATs all have adapters of similar weight. The Louise FR adapters negate the weight advantage of the FR brakes in any dress other than the direct bolt-on 180/160.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  8. #8
    trail fairy
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    Cheese the Carbons do seem lighter to me than my old FRs I haven't weighed em just the lift test in the car lot

    Never had fade issue T ive always had great performance from the FRs and was sceptical with the Ventis only because my buddy wanted them did I think I would try them and they are the real deal, my suggestion to the non believers is to try them before shooting them down, Ive ridden allot of disc brakes and different rotors my walls are decorated with brake rotors in the bike room and these really perform, I'd need to go to Morzine, Norht Shore or the Southern Alps to try to get them to fade so I will report back after Xmas after my Southern road trip to the south island yeahhaaaa bring it on going home whohoooooooooo

    My old FRs are on my RFX with the braking rotors 203fr/185r, with Goodridge Hoses, the Bats/ventis feel better and stronger with 180fr/160r I will put goodridge on them at a later date and get even more power, I feel the need the need for POWER yehaaaaaaaaaa

    It wasn't my fork I think its a pain but imo worth the performance if thats what you want if you only want an XC brake thats powerful the standard rotors are fine if not still awesome but the Ventis are another class in performance and only getting better with more ride time which in itself is impressive.

    FO the color grows on ya and Im over it if it worried me that much I'd get em painted over not having em, and I have some very sexy good Braking Rotors and still think I'll have the Venti over the looks arghh Im getting to the practical stage in life where looks are only important if the performance matches often it dosen't
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailadvent
    FO the color grows on ya and Im over it if it worried me that much I'd get em painted over not having em, and I have some very sexy good Braking Rotors and still think I'll have the Venti over the looks arghh Im getting to the practical stage in life where looks are only important if the performance matches often it dosen't
    I am joking for the most part....my Louise FR I had on the X5 are the best brakes i have had to date.

    To be honest, the reason I am considering other brakes now is because so far I have gone against squeaky wheel's recommedation for every part choice I discussed with him.....while he may get the last laugh, it is too tempting for me

  10. #10
    No, that's not phonetic
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailadvent
    ive always had great performance from the FRs and was sceptical with the Ventis... and these really perform
    I guess this still does not answer my question. All the benefits you are mentioning are probably due to the bleed quality, stiff and unbroken-in brake lines, newness of the seals, new uncontaminated and unglazed pad compound, etc. My question is, what are the aluminum carriers on the rotors doing for you?
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  11. #11
    trail fairy
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    I guess this still does not answer my question. All the benefits you are mentioning are probably due to the bleed quality, stiff and unbroken-in brake lines, newness of the seals, new uncontaminated and unglazed pad compound, etc. My question is, what are the aluminum carriers on the rotors doing for you?
    T you sound very sceptical, Im not a rep for Magura, I keep all my gear in tip top shape my older ver FRS are like new and theve just had an overhaul new pads included, the difference is not mind blowing but I can feel it but then Im very in touch with my feel side

    Its hard to say what the venti aspect is doing at this stage, I haven't had enough time on them yet and my above reveiw was only an inital impression even though slighty War & Peace in length

    I need time in some in the mountains as mentioned above plus I would like someone with me to do a bike swap comparison ideally on the same machine which is pretty hard to do here in NZ we don't have the Clan to gather up, maybe I could get NDO to come up to Riverhead with me but even those hill won't be a match for these babies I suspect, so not avoiding yr question I just haven't yet put them in a position to find fade and quite frankly theres nowhere here in the North Island that I have found that Im under braked either on my old one s or these new Bat Louises, hence why I gauging between the too as I have extensive time on the FRs.

    I will keep ya posted..
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailadvent
    T you sound very sceptical, Im not a rep for Magura, I keep all my gear in tip top shape my older ver FRS are like new and theve just had an overhaul new pads included, the difference is not mind blowing but I can feel it but then Im very in touch with my feel side

    Its hard to say what the venti aspect is doing at this stage, I haven't had enough time on them yet and my above reveiw was only an inital impression even though slighty War & Peace in length

    I need time in some in the mountains as mentioned above plus I would like someone with me to do a bike swap comparison ideally on the same machine which is pretty hard to do here in NZ we don't have the Clan to gather up, maybe I could get NDO to come up to Riverhead with me but even those hill won't be a match for these babies I suspect, so not avoiding yr question I just haven't yet put them in a position to find fade and quite frankly theres nowhere here in the North Island that I have found that Im under braked either on my old one s or these new Bat Louises, hence why I gauging between the too as I have extensive time on the FRs.

    I will keep ya posted..
    dont worry about tscheezy....he is just mad he doesn't have white lowers for his fork is all

  13. #13
    trail fairy
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    Cheers FO not sure where Mr T is coming from at the mo but hay its all good Im happy and thats what matters can only pass on my thoughts if it dosen't work for others thats cool, Im not a fan of having the same thing as everyone else anyways

    I like to be different and the sherbert tastes good over here

    I did think though that T liked these brakes at interbike so Im a little confused but hay its easily done, where ya at with yr RFX, mines all go and I'll post pics sometime this week even if I had to borrow some parts off my Spot since the other minor stuff hasn't arived yet I can no longer wait which I was gonna do anyways and put the new stuff on the Spot except my chain guide.

    The wheels look hawt with tires on them
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  14. #14
    No, that's not phonetic
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    I don't think any of the Interbike rigs had the Venti rotors though we did ride a few with the BAT Louises. I love Louises in general and found the BATs to be great too. I am just trying to figure out what the Venti rotors are supposed to bring to the equation and am wondering out loud when people ascribe certain performance traits to the rotors when in fact the behavior is produced by the brakes, that's all. I'm not trying to pick on anyone.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  15. #15
    trail fairy
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    tscheezy I don't think any of the Interbike rigs had the Venti rotors though we did ride a few with the BAT Louises. I love Louises in general and found the BATs to be great too. I am just trying to figure out what the Venti rotors are supposed to bring to the equation and am wondering out loud when people ascribe certain performance traits to the rotors when in fact the behavior is produced by the brakes, that's all. I'm not trying to pick on anyone.
    LOL understand Fo and I are just senstitive cause our RFXs are taking so long to come together

    I agree the brakes are probably as a whole result in a better overall package, to me the calipers seem larger as are the main res on the levers, it just feels like the rotors do give more power also so combined as a whole, I might try my old rotors at some stage to see if I can see if there is a difference, this would give a truer indcation
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  16. #16
    No, that's not phonetic
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    OK, I take it back. The Knolly Endorphin had a venti up front and a standard wavy in back. No wonder it felt so unbalanced.



    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  17. #17
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    works for me

    Use your feet like Fred Flintstone to stop Or just buy Hayes Mags.

  18. #18
    NDO
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailadvent
    T you sound very sceptical..
    TA actually has a secret formula for braking success. He gets "the crazy swiss dude' at the LBS to put his fingerprints all over the rotor surfaces - which apparently makes the rotors 100% efficient!

    This right-of-passage extends to all of TA’s bike parts. TA imports the stuff directly then takes it in the LBS to have the laying-on-of-hands ceremony completed. I have now seen this ceremony a couple of times. There is not even an exchange of koha (a gift for services) - beyond over-paying 25c for a LBS coffee!

    Quote Originally Posted by trailadvent
    …maybe I could get NDO to come up to Riverhead with me but even those hill won't be a match for these babies I..
    Come on TA - Riverhead is hardly going to test standard 180s, unless they have grown by about 500m since I last visited!

    Ndo
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  19. #19
    trail fairy
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    NDO ya shocker 25c is a fair price for that coffee

    And I take offense to the import coments I buy it there if they stock it I can only give the opportunity how rude of u to imply I use and abuse the crazy swiss

    Its not done to lay a finger on another mans rotors without rubber gloves

    And when ya ride at Riverhead ya have to leave the carpark to get to the hills, plus it helps if ya take yr bike outta crazy swiss mans bike store and ride it

    I'll have to show u the trails up in them there hills young man Spot country where i ride
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  20. #20
    trail fairy
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    Unbalanced strong nose wheelie

    Hay T did that rotor have plenty of clearance on that manipoo post mount?

    My other thought is possibly the Chris King hub width might have somehing to do with the tolerences?
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  21. #21
    NDO
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailadvent
    NDO ya shocker 25c is a fair price for that coffee:
    You think his coffee is worth 25c! I have not paid anything yet!

    Quote Originally Posted by trailadvent
    And I take offense to the import coments I buy it there if they stock it ….
    Last time I checked he did actually sell Turner frames, although last time I asked about the RFX he seemed to think we live in Spot country rather than RFX land…

    Quote Originally Posted by trailadvent
    … it helps if ya take yr bike outta crazy swiss mans bike store and ride it:
    Dang you ride those things! I thought they were decorative works of artisanship to be hung in the garage and periodically taken to the bike shop to have dusted! He who dies with most toys wins!

    Ndo
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  22. #22
    trail fairy
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    You think his coffee is worth 25c! I have not paid anything yet!
    Good point ok its a sympathy donation, really its not that bad even with the grease covered coffee mug he'll like that

    Last time I checked he did actually sell Turner frames, although last time I asked about the RFX he seemed to think we live in Spot country rather than RFX land…
    yes but he could'nt get me this one

    Dang you ride those things! I thought they were decorative works of artisanship to be hung in the garage and periodically taken to the bike shop to have dusted! He who dies with most toys wins!

    Ndo
    NDO thats so last year this year its he who has the most Turners wins

    I see a Sultan and a Highline in the future, course it'll have to be in 08 cause unless its last years its not retro
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  23. #23
    NDO
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    Who has the most toys...

    [QUOTE=trailadvent]NDO thats so last year this year its he who has the most Turners winsQUOTE]

    OK lets be clear on the rules.

    1. The kayaks, sailing dinghies, windsurfers, the wife and sundry other bikes don’t count.

    2. Turners have to have been built up and ridden.

    3. Ownership of an Ellsworth at any previous time counts as minus one.

    By my count that leaves me at plus two points and you at zero points - or did you have more than one little E? You need the RFX built and at least one more big T to break even!.

    What was this thread about again...

    Ndo
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  24. #24
    trail fairy
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    [QUOTE] OK lets be clear on the rules.

    1. The kayaks, sailing dinghies, windsurfers, the wife and sundry other bikes don’t count.
    Thats because I have more
    2. Turners have to have been built up and ridden.
    Mine are ridden NDO yrs are always sitting at the Crazy Swiss's apartment beside the coffee machine.
    RFX is on its maiden journey this weekend yeahhaaaa

    3. Ownership of an Ellsworth at any previous time counts as minus one.
    You must have me mixed up with another TA from another dimenison

    By my count that leaves me at plus two points and you at zero points - or did you have more than one little E? You need the RFX built and at least one more big T to break even!.
    I saw u with that single speed surly how rude to mock yr 5spot like that I deduct one point for the Tuner bashing from riding the SS if it has indeed been ridden and is not next to he coffee machine at Crazy Swiss place

    So I figure Im 1 point ahead again
    What was this thread about again...
    Magura Brakes which are dam sexy and just keep impressing me, Im off for an early before ride 2morrow with the Horseman yeahaaa Im loving these brakes even the color has grown on me day glow is back in fashion

    TA
    ps the Surly is actually pretty cool I'll give ya back 1/2 a point
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  25. #25
    NDO
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailadvent
    Mine are ridden NDO yrs are always sitting at the Crazy Swiss's apartment beside the coffee machine.
    Want to compare who does more k’s per week? Wise man say “TA’s who commute by truck should not throw stones”.

    Quote Originally Posted by trailadvent
    You must have me mixed up with another TA from another dimenison.
    Sorry, that’s the Swiss influence again!

    Quote Originally Posted by trailadvent
    RFX is on its maiden journey this weekend yeahhaaaa
    Enjoy

    The Surley is also set for its maiden journey with me this weekend.

    Ndo
    Kia ora (Good health)

  26. #26
    trail fairy
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    Want to compare who does more k’s per week? Wise man say “TA’s who commute by truck should not throw stones”.
    haha, its quality not quanity, Im still a bit sore from my popped rib, anywa when ya live 200kms from the darn forest that the boys want to ride every weekend ya make sacrifices so have truck will travel ya shocker, you had an unhappy pill this week

    Anyways I huck as well as truck, and I will enjoy, yes you have spent too much time at the Crazy swiss apartment go do some work for a change,

    Ps i told him about yr coffee coments hes coming for ya now
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  27. #27
    trail fairy
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    This thread deserves another pic or 2
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  28. #28
    Santa Cruz are THE BEST !
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailadvent

    I need time in some in the mountains as mentioned above plus I would like someone with me to do a bike swap comparison ideally on the same machine which is pretty hard to do here in NZ we don't have the Clan to gather up, maybe I could get NDO to come up to Riverhead with me but even those hill won't be a match for these babies I suspect, so not avoiding yr question I just haven't yet put them in a position to find fade and quite frankly theres nowhere here in the North Island that I have found that Im under braked either on my old one s or these new Bat Louises, hence why I gauging between the too as I have extensive time on the FRs.

    I will keep ya posted..
    So any new thoughts on the performance?

    I've just ordered a set of Louise Bat Carbons with 203mm Venti Rotors (front and rear) and braided hoses to put on my Santa Cruz VP-Free Freeride bike. The bike is being built at the moment, and I'm just waiting on my new Rockshox Totem 2step Air forks which have 8" (203mm) Post mounts. I'm just hoping I don't have to take a file to my new £750 forks to allow the Venti rotors to be fitted ! Especially when the brakes cost over £400.
    If this is the case, then Magura need to redesign the rotors pronto and offer a recall and free replacement scheme!

    Have you managed to test out the brakes as far as fade and brake pump is concerned ?
    Do these brakes run nice and quiet ?

    I originally purchased some new Gustav M's, but swapped them out as the weights came out at over 700g each end (210/190mm combo), which is way heavier than the 499g / 560g quoted in the 07 Magura brochure.

    Thanks,
    Rich (UK).

  29. #29
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    So any new thoughts on the performance?

    I've just ordered a set of Louise Bat Carbons with 203mm Venti Rotors (front and rear) and braided hoses to put on my Santa Cruz VP-Free Freeride bike. The bike is being built at the moment, and I'm just waiting on my new Rockshox Totem 2step Air forks which have 8" (203mm) Post mounts. I'm just hoping I don't have to take a file to my new £750 forks to allow the Venti rotors to be fitted ! Especially when the brakes cost over £400.
    If this is the case, then Magura need to redesign the rotors pronto and offer a recall and free replacement scheme!

    Have you managed to test out the brakes as far as fade and brake pump is concerned ?
    Do these brakes run nice and quiet ?
    Brakes have been awesome, exceeded the previous model on performance, , slightly larger calipers and brake cylinders, we have had no fade issues, have been running 2 sets and the perfromance is awesome, quite, probably the most quite brake I used, Ive run or ridden a few, great feel, Im not sure if you'll have the PM issue on the Totem or not but its still worth setting it up, not sure I'd like to run carbon brakes on a Freeride bike though, I'd mainly be worried about the cost of replacement of levers during crashes etc, otherwise setup is a brezze, 203mm rotors wil be awesome 180/160mm is as strong as Ive ridden, Hope mono 6s, Avid J7s with 203/203, the new Magg bats feel stronger more feel and control, very powerful.

    I don't think you be concerened about performance, enjoy it really is a sweet brake
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    I guess this still does not answer my question. All the benefits you are mentioning are probably due to the bleed quality, stiff and unbroken-in brake lines, newness of the seals, new uncontaminated and unglazed pad compound, etc. My question is, what are the aluminum carriers on the rotors doing for you?
    I'm with Tscheezy here. I feel like Magura is solving a problem that no on is having. Additionally, I've seen several of the Shimano Saint rotors, also a steel rotor on an aluminum carrier, develop slop around the rivets. This aluminum/steel interface is another possible location for creaks and problems, and I've never had issues with conventional Louise FR brakes with traditional steel rotors.

    Let me also take a moment to criticize Magura for copying Avid. Why imitate your lesser competitors? (prob market share, that's why) Why is there a knob controlling the engagement point, rather than relying on proper bleeding? No other performance vehicles have this. Not motorcycles, cars, anything. Just us silly mountain bikers.

    I am also a conservative former shop employee. This means I am probably unnecessarily critical, and decidedly anti-bling. After having owned several ostentatious bikes, I don't care anymore and don't want to care, and I just ride a boring, quality Turner with boring, functional Shimano parts. So take my opinion with a grain of salt, I certainly would in your shoes. Especially if your quick releases match your headset.

  31. #31
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    Interesting point of view Kracker!

    Since it looks like you haven't ridden or owned the new model, I don't know what you base this on, my feedback is based that currently I have the previous louise FRs and the new Bats, the rotors do indeed make a difference! So my post is based somewhat on fact not fiction.

    Also as I have said above they still offer the standard rotor option so I miss yr point on Magura trying to solve a problem, they are offering options like the radio choose yr channel if you don't like em don't buy em seems simple to me.

    Seems to me some are trying to find a problem, I don't work for Magura so personally I don't really care, I like em my buddy is over the moon with his even though we had to modify his fork it was no big drama thats all that counts.

    Only neg for me is the color and I couldn't give a rats about that while Im riding either

    So make of that what ya will

    For me
    5/5 chillis for IS mount
    4/5 chillis for PM mount
    5/5 chillis for offering standard rotors
    or for those looking for some extra oooph
    venti rotors hopefully they fit yr PM fork!
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  32. #32
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    I don't need to own the new model to debate the merits of a two piece rotor design for bicycle applications. I base my opinions on the years I have spent working and repairing bikes in a high end shop that deals strictly with off-road equipment, incidentally the shop that is the most prolific brick and mortar Turner dealer in this country (read: selling face to face, not on the internet). My post is based on extrapolations from rather large amounts of first hand experience with a number of different brake systems as those systems go from being new to needing service years later. For what it's worth, I pushed and sold Magura brakes since before they because so popular on this board.

    And they specifically say they were trying to solve a problem of heat dissipation, which I've never had with conventional Louise rotors. This is usually more of a problem on road race motorcycles than off-road bicycles, which is not to say it doesn't exist. I love the Magura brakes I have, and I have every intention of trading up to the new Louises (I currently have Marta 180s on a bike that could really use Louise FR brakes).

    And someone riding the new BATs has no basis to say the rotors make a difference. They only know there is a subjective difference between the old and new brake systems. You can't change multiple variables and draw conclusions about one variable in particular having a causal relationship with the results. Until the brakes are in operating conditions that subject them to potential overheating, which was fairly difficult on the old Louises, there will be no difference between the Venti rotors and conventional steel ones to the user.

    I guess the motivation for me being critical is that in return for solving no problem, I speculate, based on quite a bit of experience, that the rivet holes in the aluminum carrier in the Venti rotors will ovalize from the shearing forces they undergo over time. All the rotors I have seen using this design wore out over time. And given the extremely high level of engineering Magura exhibits, and their experience with motorcycle brakes, they know it. So we have a likely case of style over substance. How many people will buy them because they are red? (sorry Fo) When the emperor has no clothes, I have to point and laugh, because its my nature.

    Quote Originally Posted by trailadvent
    Interesting point of view Kracker!

    Since it looks like you haven't ridden or owned the new model, I don't know what you base this on, my feedback is based that currently I have the previous louise FRs and the new Bats, the rotors do indeed make a difference! So my post is based somewhat on fact not fiction.

    Also as I have said above they still offer the standard rotor option so I miss yr point on Magura trying to solve a problem, they are offering options like the radio choose yr channel if you don't like em don't buy em seems simple to me.

    Seems to me some are trying to find a problem, I don't work for Magura so personally I don't really care, I like em my buddy is over the moon with his even though we had to modify his fork it was no big drama thats all that counts.

    Only neg for me is the color and I couldn't give a rats about that while Im riding either

    So make of that what ya will

    For me
    5/5 chillis for IS mount
    4/5 chillis for PM mount
    5/5 chillis for offering standard rotors
    or for those looking for some extra oooph
    venti rotors hopefully they fit yr PM fork!

  33. #33
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    hey ta.

    i just noticed yer runnin 90 deg fittings on yer maggies. were those stock on those or did ya upgrade? much cleaner than the 0 deg fittings i have on mine.
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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kracker
    I'm with Tscheezy here. I feel like Magura is solving a problem that no on is having. Additionally, I've seen several of the Shimano Saint rotors, also a steel rotor on an aluminum carrier, develop slop around the rivets. This aluminum/steel interface is another possible location for creaks and problems, and I've never had issues with conventional Louise FR brakes with traditional steel rotors.
    And what is important is that SOME of the aluminum carrier rotors like the Hopes are pinned in such a way that the steel brake surface can EXPAND and not warp back on itself. When you have the steel rotor surface either bolted to the disc mounts, or bolted to the carrier, then it can not expand and will be more prone to warping. The hopes with the carrier get as hot as anything else in my experience, but at the end of the day you didn't trash a rotor just because it reached a billion degrees.

    Some of these rotors with aluminum carriers seem to just exist because it saves like 2 grams or looks bling bling, and has nothing to do with expansion of the braking surface.
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  35. #35
    Santa Cruz are THE BEST !
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailadvent
    Brakes have been awesome, exceeded the previous model on performance, , slightly larger calipers and brake cylinders, we have had no fade issues, have been running 2 sets and the perfromance is awesome, quite, probably the most quite brake I used, Ive run or ridden a few, great feel, Im not sure if you'll have the PM issue on the Totem or not but its still worth setting it up, not sure I'd like to run carbon brakes on a Freeride bike though, I'd mainly be worried about the cost of replacement of levers during crashes etc, otherwise setup is a brezze, 203mm rotors wil be awesome 180/160mm is as strong as Ive ridden, Hope mono 6s, Avid J7s with 203/203, the new Magg bats feel stronger more feel and control, very powerful.

    I don't think you be concerened about performance, enjoy it really is a sweet brake

    I've decided to keep the new Gustav 210/190 setup with Goodridge hoses on my VP-Free freeride bike, But, I'm gonna build up a new Santa Cruz Nomad with Rock Show Lyrik 2 step air forks soon and I'll definately go for the Louise Bat Carbon with 203 venti rotors on that puppy.....

    Thanks for the help,

    Rich (UK)

  36. #36
    Santa Cruz are THE BEST !
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    Do the rotors make the cool pinging noise like Hope floaring rotors when they cool down?

    So cool hearing them going mad (ping, ping, ping) at the bottom of a stonking descent.

    Rich.
    Last edited by richslaney; 12-10-2006 at 08:43 AM.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    My question is, what are the aluminum carriers on the rotors doing for you?
    nothing. but they look really cool, kinda like having the center lock look with 6 bolts + color ano.

  38. #38
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    In my case, I went from a 180 two-piece Hope rotor to a 180 Maggie as an experiment. I thought the Hope rotor had too much surface area removed in making light weight priority.

    So far, I get great braking and increased ultimate stopping power and modulation is still great. I still have yet to return results from the rotor when everything is fully broken in, but it appears promising. The power of some of the stonger brakes in the class without the on/off feel they have.
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  39. #39
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    hey ta.

    i just noticed yer runnin 90 deg fittings on yer maggies. were those stock on those or did ya upgrade? much cleaner than the 0 deg fittings i have on mine.
    Hey CC come as standared much better than the earlier versions, everything has been improved imo which is a good thing, enjoy

    richslaney Do the rotors make the cool pinging noise like Hope floaring rotors when they cool down?

    So hearing them going mad at the bottom of a stonking descent.

    Rich
    .

    Rich no theres been no noise to date either on mine or Spotz 5spot, they have run flawlessly!

    The issues some have raised imo are not apparent at this stage maybe they have some validity but at present not too the magura system in time who knws but thats an oxymoron, but it won't sway me if I had a rotor issue I'd just get another one, I don't see the big deal other than an unwarranted opinions which are not factual at this stage, if ya have any concerns run standard rotors again seems obvious to me, Magura supply both you choose.

    At the end of the day these are killer brakes period tested and ridden hard by 2 of us so its not just my experience, course I look after both bikes so maybe that has somehing to do with it

    Ive been testing some Hope Mono 4s on the RFX and to date have had leak out of the top resiour rear brake, have had the front brake lock up twice today and sending me over the bars not much fun or confidence inspiring and the calipers squeal, hopefully just some tweaking but comparing these to the Magura Bats is night and day, Mags are easier to setup imo, have much better feel and control, I like the hopes on the bars, but so far less than impressed with performance.

    looks 10/10
    performance 5.5/10

    my buddies trying my FRs and hes loving them his comment very powerful eek have I done the right thing.
    He didn't take a trip over the bars like me maybe I'll get some goodridge hoses for some consistency I dunno, not issues with brake in period on Mags, hopefully the Hopes will improve
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  40. #40
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    thats a bummer....

    so far, I definitely feel the M6/M4 combo is better than my Magura Louise 210mm/190mm rear both in terms of power and modulation.

    I had several issues with my Magura....shuddering rotors (a la Juicy 7) and levers that came all the way to the bars on 2 separate rides after being fixed supposedly each of the times. a sample size of 1 of course....I loved them when they worked though.

    i know the lame issue with the leaky Hope reservoirs......the diaphragms are fussy for sure. try switching them between sides and that may even do it.

    neither brake is perfect but thus far, Hope wins for me. My Magura Marta SLs too were fussy but again, could be coincidence and bad luck.

  41. #41
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    I hear ya FO Im not ragging on the Hopes Im sure its a time thing, Im not sure about power though, they have plenty, but the feel is different, you have goodridge and I kow they make a big difference, my FRs had goodridge hoses so this is maybe why, I notice the diameter of the standard hoses vs the Goodridge is significant also the Goods are much bigger so I expect they would improve consistency, I will add these, interesting though my Mags on the Spot have to me better power feel and these have standard pads and hoses, um be interesting in a few months when I have GR on both, I like the Hopes on the RFX as it finishes off the looks of the bike and all blends in nicely.

    I'll try yr suggestion and swap top caps around, maybe readjust the calipers as these may have readjusted since setup.

    I may get my Mags centre rotors PC black or ano gold not sure yet, Ive found a place so that will finish them off nicely.

    have you got yr BS chain guide on yet?
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  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailadvent
    I hear ya FO Im not ragging on the Hopes Im sure its a time thing, Im not sure about power though, they have plenty, but the feel is different, you have goodridge and I kow they make a big difference, my FRs had goodridge hoses so this is maybe why, I notice the diameter of the standard hoses vs the Goodridge is significant also the Goods are much bigger so I expect they would improve consistency, I will add these, interesting though my Mags on the Spot have to me better power feel and these have standard pads and hoses, um be interesting in a few months when I have GR on both, I like the Hopes on the RFX as it finishes off the looks of the bike and all blends in nicely.

    I'll try yr suggestion and swap top caps around, maybe readjust the calipers as these may have readjusted since setup.

    I may get my Mags centre rotors PC black or ano gold not sure yet, Ive found a place so that will finish them off nicely.

    have you got yr BS chain guide on yet?
    i definitely did not take it that way....i honestly think it is hit and miss with products.

    funny about the goodridge lines....do you really think they make a difference? could also be because i have the M6 up front which really is noticeable with its power and modulation compared to the rear M4.

    its funny cause i finally got on my bike again this last week....my 29er with Hope Mono 2 pistons front and rear, 180mm/160mm and i swear it felt like i did not even have brakes. i got to thinking about putting goodridge on those to see if it helps as the modulation felt like crap. could be cause i was coming off my 6/4 setup but still....

    no, no chain guide...my local shop said they are having trouble finding it??? i did not think it was hard to get but perhaps it is. i may just go with the E-13 DRS instead as i dug that on a previous bike

    cheers

  43. #43
    trail fairy
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    i definitely did not take it that way....i honestly think it is hit and miss with products.

    funny about the goodridge lines....do you really think they make a difference? could also be because i have the M6 up front which really is noticeable with its power and modulation compared to the rear M4.

    its funny cause i finally got on my bike again this last week....my 29er with Hope Mono 2 pistons front and rear, 180mm/160mm and i swear it felt like i did not even have brakes. i got to thinking about putting goodridge on those to see if it helps as the modulation felt like crap. could be cause i was coming off my 6/4 setup but still....

    no, no chain guide...my local shop said they are having trouble finding it??? i did not think it was hard to get but perhaps it is. i may just go with the E-13 DRS instead as i dug that on a previous bike

    cheers
    I agree ya right about hit and miss I think ma be Ive just got a monday set and they will brake in I just Hope no pun intened I don't go over the bars when I need to least, the boys thought I had crash landed over a 4x speed to drop jump today and all I was doing was pulling up alongside the ramp to check it ut first when my tumbling skills were put to the test, I got up smiling but it was a surprise after it happened the second time after definitely realeaing the lever and I was still being pitched ove the bars I was **** whats up

    Theres plenty of power so but it seems the delivery is a little off at the mo

    Ive run the FRs and HAyes with and without the goodridges and I think there is a definite improvement in feel consistency and control (modualtion)
    I noticed it more wiuth the Hayes (sorry mudge) but they were poo before the braied hoses and were not to bad afterward, so for me its a done deal, Im not sure yet if I need to do this on the Spot yet I will give them some more time, I still like the idea of them in case of crashes they are non kinkable and thats just as important too me oh and the look factor just looks factory my old FRs look great on my buddies bike sure gave it a lift, I hope I don't regret that decision (hope) hehe arghh ok bad joke

    Im running a DRS at mo same reason stgill waiting on my order from price point huh Spotz? for Blackspire
    DRS has been flawless, made some mods for it to fit increased the bevels for the bolts to counter sink into and also into the ISCG so my inner chain ring bolts would clear sweet with HOnes you should be OK if similar to XTs

    You been out this weekend, ta
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  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailadvent
    i definitely did not take it that way....i honestly think it is hit and miss with products.



    I agree ya right about hit and miss I think ma be Ive just got a monday set and they will brake in I just Hope no pun intened I don't go over the bars when I need to least, the boys thought I had crash landed over a 4x speed to drop jump today and all I was doing was pulling up alongside the ramp to check it ut first when my tumbling skills were put to the test, I got up smiling but it was a surprise after it happened the second time after definitely realeaing the lever and I was still being pitched ove the bars I was **** whats up

    Theres plenty of power so but it seems the delivery is a little off at the mo

    Ive run the FRs and HAyes with and without the goodridges and I think there is a definite improvement in feel consistency and control (modualtion)
    I noticed it more wiuth the Hayes (sorry mudge) but they were poo before the braied hoses and were not to bad afterward, so for me its a done deal, Im not sure yet if I need to do this on the Spot yet I will give them some more time, I still like the idea of them in case of crashes they are non kinkable and thats just as important too me oh and the look factor just looks factory my old FRs look great on my buddies bike sure gave it a lift, I hope I don't regret that decision (hope) hehe arghh ok bad joke

    Im running a DRS at mo same reason stgill waiting on my order from price point huh Spotz? for Blackspire
    DRS has been flawless, made some mods for it to fit increased the bevels for the bolts to counter sink into and also into the ISCG so my inner chain ring bolts would clear sweet with HOnes you should be OK if similar to XTs

    You been out this weekend, ta
    thanks man....yeah, may go with the E-13 after all. looks like in fact the ICSG version of Stinger not in stock at BTI distributor.

    nah....i did not get out AGAIN. I have to fly out of town for business and will be back late next week so i will get out the following weekend.

    cheers

  45. #45
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    Fo,
    You running stock Hope pads?

    I run Goodridge organics on my Mono Minis. They modulate much better and are quieter than the stock sintered pads.

    On second thought, put the m6 on the SS and get those Hope Motos that you're lusting after for the RFX. They'll look better than the Motos when you sell the RFX later this winter.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    Fo,
    You running stock Hope pads?

    I run Goodridge organics on my Mono Minis. They modulate much better and are quieter than the stock sintered pads.

    On second thought, put the m6 on the SS and get those Hope Motos that you're lusting after for the RFX. They'll look better than the Motos when you sell the RFX later this winter.
    i dont know what i would do without you....great idea. I was about to order some Codes for the single speed but your idea is better. Plus, the Motos you weight at Larrys shop came in at what, 675 grams was it? that is awesome!

  47. #47
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    thanks man....yeah, may go with the E-13 after all. looks like in fact the ICSG version of Stinger not in stock at BTI distributor.

    nah....i did not get out AGAIN. I have to fly out of town for business and will be back late next week so i will get out the following weekend.

    cheers
    Yeah bud of mine has swapped out the roller for LRP Mrp roller and he seems pretty stoked trying to get the same

    Bummer ya working oh well ya gotta do what ya gotta do to get feed the UGI

    I like Squeaky's suggestion might try that too if I can get me mits on some goodrige pads that may be hard in a land down under

    I need some spares for the 6hr super D coming up called the brake buster

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  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    And what is important is that SOME of the aluminum carrier rotors like the Hopes are pinned in such a way that the steel brake surface can EXPAND and not warp back on itself. When you have the steel rotor surface either bolted to the disc mounts, or bolted to the carrier, then it can not expand and will be more prone to warping. The hopes with the carrier get as hot as anything else in my experience, but at the end of the day you didn't trash a rotor just because it reached a billion degrees.

    Some of these rotors with aluminum carriers seem to just exist because it saves like 2 grams or looks bling bling, and has nothing to do with expansion of the braking surface.
    I believe this pic illustrates what Jayem is referring to. Note the gap between the rotor track and the hub carrier.
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  49. #49
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    I believe this pic illustrates what Jayem is referring to. Note the gap between the rotor track and the hub carrier.
    Don't see it on the Magura's

    <img src="https://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r211/trailadvent/mudgeVentis1296x972.jpg">
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  50. #50
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    You have something stuck in your teef.

  51. #51
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    Jerk_Chicken You have something stuck in your teef.
    They wouldn't be my teeth
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  52. #52
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    Any more feedback on the Venti rotors holding up? I'm looking at the 8" with adaptors as a possibility for the Louise BAT's specifically.
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