What was that email about? 3.19.2019?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    What was that email about? 3.19.2019?

    I'm on the email list and they sent out an email about something "revolutionary" comparing it to "carbon frames"... what could possibly be that big?

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    My guess is a new frame material

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    All I could see was the following from Trek

    A change like this comes once every 30 years

    On 20 March, weíre unveiling something that will change cycling forever

    Couldn't see anything about materials, but the back ground was a green weave pattern

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    What was that email about? 3.19.2019?-trek.png

    Screen shot from Trek Facebook page

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    What's in the bottom left corner?

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    What was that email about? 3.19.2019?-marquee.jpg

    Picture from the email

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    Well, whatever it is, it probably ticks all boxes and has much less compromise than what we're currently dealing with. High tech bringing high performance to mainstream price points, replacing all other materials, scalable to high volume? Something they can't bring out fast enough to the public?

    The teaser reminds me of isogrid. Maybe it's some lattice of carbon fiber reinforced thermoplastic, that happens to be stable in direct sunlight, and can be manufactured through automation. Recyclable, maybe even producible through recycled material, if it uses short strand carbon that can be injection or co-molded?

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    With all the recent backlash against carbon and it's inability to be efficiently recycled I think @ninjichor maybe onto something. ??A material with the properties of carbon fibre that can be 100% recycled when it's no longer need ??

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    environmentally friendly frame material that is stronger and lighter than carbon (not cheaper....it has to be pricey to be "good" in consumer's minds). If it is cheaper too...wow, good for Trek to not mark it up for sheer new/cool sales tactics.

    It looks to be some kind of fiber/weave (recycled plastic? ABS?) with some kind of skeleton type structure. A multi-ply synthetic bike frame material that is environmentally friendly? To tick the "environmentally friendly" box it would have to be made from recycled materials. I don't see how they could make that claim by making new raw plastic from dyno-juice.

    I suspect Santa Cruz, Yeti, etc who are all in on $$$$ carbon are nervous.
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    I figured new frame material. It would make sense they are shooting for recycled/recyclable, BUT if it is only top of the line price then it isn't that revolutionary. It would need to be throughout the line up, at least down to mid range pricing to make much of a difference.

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    I dunno about being lighter than carbon, but there's tons of other values that can be improved which lightweight carbon construction compromised on.

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    Yay! Another miniscule performance improvement that the sheep just GOTTA have!

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    Quote Originally Posted by chelboed View Post
    Yay! Another miniscule performance improvement that the sheep just GOTTA have!

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    Quote Originally Posted by chelboed View Post
    Yay! Another miniscule performance improvement that the sheep just GOTTA have!
    Trek is really making a big deal about this. I doubt they would do so if it wasnít significant. If it is a marginal improvement then their credibility takes a huge hit.

    Plus, it is about time for a new frame material. Seems reasonable to think with todayís tech they really do have something significant.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zgxtreme View Post
    Ugh. I was happy when SRAM changed their slogan to something similar to that ("Incremental enhancements. Perpetual improvements..."), because it gave me more reason to consider alternatives. Before that, I was citing their ridiculous aftermarket MSRPs as the main reason to voluntarily boycott. xD

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
    Trek is really making a big deal about this. I doubt they would do so if it wasnít significant. If it is a marginal improvement then their credibility takes a huge hit.

    Plus, it is about time for a new frame material. Seems reasonable to think with todayís tech they really do have something significant.
    Carbon fiber has made a huge impact on my life. It's made aluminum cheaper for me to be able to afford better components to hang off my aluminum frame, hehehe.

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    I'm trying to think, historically, what single thing has changed cycling ever since? It is kind of subjective. For many things that some say are huge, I often can't detect a difference. Anyway...maybe the pneumatic tire? the derailleur? Suspension changed mtbing, but that wasn't one thing. It evolved over decades. Frame materials offered some benefits and choices, but didn't really change the nature of cycling...you can still ride steel or aluminum if CF didn't exist. Clipless pedals? You can still ride toe clips if you want to be attached to your pedals.

    Anyway, I'm pretty sure whatever they announce, it won't live up to the hype.
    Do the math.

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    More plastic? A bike made of hemp?

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    Something 7.23454% stiffer than something unspecified, as measured by Trek's own labs using methods that the marketing people assure us we don't need to know and also that stiffness is VERY IMPORTANT to the 90% of us who ride for fun and are not at the limit of our current gear in any way.

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    It would be nice to see a greater level of cynicism in this thread.

    C'mon, you can do better. Dig deep!
    Whining is not a strategy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PhillipJ View Post
    Something 7.23454% stiffer than something unspecified, as measured by Trek's own labs using methods that the marketing people assure us we don't need to know and also that stiffness is VERY IMPORTANT to the 90% of us who ride for fun and are not at the limit of our current gear in any way.
    You mean laterally and torsionally stiffer? Trends are all about adding vertical compliance to everything. I'd be disappointed if noise, vibration, and harshness reduction wasn't a big part of this release.

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    It's a dropper stem. It's gotta be. Make it a foot longer for climbing, them shorten it up for descending.

    Ya know since we can't ride now without dropper posts. Oh crap, I forgot...I don't have one of those either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kosmo View Post
    It would be nice to see a greater level of cynicism in this thread.

    C'mon, you can do better. Dig deep!
    Ok, its made with fecal transplant.

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    The weave in that looks very similar.. it'd be great if this version of carbon material is as impact resistant as claimed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JonJones View Post
    The weave in that looks very similar.. it'd be great if this version of carbon material is as impact resistant as claimed.
    Now this could make me finally buy a plastic bike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ninjichor View Post
    You mean laterally and torsionally stiffer?

    Details are unimportant. You just need to be impressed by the innovation and understand that your current bike is now not fun and you need a new one.

  29. #29
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    Graphene is another possibility. However not enviro friendly so Iím skeptical.

    https://youtu.be/FaKl3OymFy4

    300g frames and built in circuitry are possible.
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    Quote Originally Posted by khardrunner14 View Post
    I figured new frame material. It would make sense they are shooting for recycled/recyclable, BUT if it is only top of the line price then it isn't that revolutionary. It would need to be throughout the line up, at least down to mid range pricing to make much of a difference.
    All the 'revolutionary' stuff starts at the top and trickles down. Carbon fiber used to be only the top couple models, now it's almost the full specialized stumpjumper range (as an example). A fork like a Lyrik would only be a high end bike, now you can find them midrange, etc. It will come down to the mid range in time.

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjichor View Post
    Ugh. I was happy when SRAM changed their slogan to something similar to that ("Incremental enhancements. Perpetual improvements..."), because it gave me more reason to consider alternatives. Before that, I was citing their ridiculous aftermarket MSRPs as the main reason to voluntarily boycott. xD
    Sort of depends on what you consider incremental. 1x drivetrains are incremental on their own. So are droppers. 1x and droppers together have freed up a lot of design space for short rear ends and modern angles. Long and slack is incremental, but when you ride a 10 year old bike back to back with a modern one it's huge. I know you know a lot more about the details of this than I do- just big picturing it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Rager View Post
    I'm trying to think, historically, what single thing has changed cycling ever since? It is kind of subjective. For many things that some say are huge, I often can't detect a difference. Anyway...maybe the pneumatic tire? the derailleur? Suspension changed mtbing, but that wasn't one thing. It evolved over decades. Frame materials offered some benefits and choices, but didn't really change the nature of cycling...you can still ride steel or aluminum if CF didn't exist. Clipless pedals? You can still ride toe clips if you want to be attached to your pedals.

    Anyway, I'm pretty sure whatever they announce, it won't live up to the hype.
    I've got to think the real angle has to be environmental, the one big issue that cycling is under attack for is CF being pretty bad for the environment, particularly in the regions that most CF products are made- this stuff may be lighter and stronger, but if it's then environmentally sound they can tout that as a big deal.

    I don't know- just trying to be positive and realistic at the same time, which hurts my head as I trend toward cynicism myself.

  31. #31
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    I don't think frame recyclability "changes cycling." It just changes throwing them away, right?
    Do the math.

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    I don't think it's the recycling of the frame itself thats the issue, it's all the waste from the buildup. When they cut all the fabric shapes for the layup- about 1/4 to 1/3 of the fabric ends up going in the garbage. I'm not a big time environmentalist or anything- I've just seen a lot of articles attacking the process. Seems like an issue that ripe to set itself apart from competitors.

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    Well, let's face it, we all know that companies overhype things regularly.Doesn't make it right, but it happens all the time. I'm just hoping that it will be of some significance to the industry. Even if it's just a slightly lower environmental impact, I think it's a good thing.

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    Part of the success of any manufacturer is their relationship with the dealer network, regardless of technological improvements. After all, content and context are integrally intertwined. Bontrager just announced its new relationship with REI. If Trek products (which include Bontrager) wind up at REI, this will be a very bad thing for the prestige of the Trek brand, no matter how special their new "materials" might be. It will be viewed by many as a gimmick.

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    I'm going with a new "standard" of 147.739 rear hub spacing, Pressfit 93.7
    bottom bracket and 36.3 mm handlebars and stems.

  36. #36
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    An E-bike you don't have to pedal!

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    Trek OCLV was available in 1992 (27 years ago), after heavily investing in carbon manufacturing infrastructure.

    Another heavy investment in expansion to account for a new manufacturing process?

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    Looks like kevlar weave to me.

  39. #39
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    I don't know what it's about, but I do know I got the email about a dozen times, each in a different language.
    -DC, just some XC Bum in Sfla...

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by kosmo View Post
    it would be nice to see a greater level of cynicism in this thread.

    C'mon, you can do better. Dig deep!
    lol

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    Yes, finally!

    The integrated foldable kicker ramp that fits into your downtube!
    Glad Trek found a way to make it happen with new materials!

    Project S.W.E.A.T - specially woven ejection aireal tool

    (better?!)

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    That will most probably be it then, looks the same as the advertising and the article says it's working with bike manufacturers.

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  43. #43
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    Mitch@Trek

    Spill the beans, give us the MTBr exclusive, we can keep it on the down low for a few weeks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Train Wreck View Post
    Mitch@Trek

    Spill the beans, give us the MTBr exclusive, we can keep it on the down low for a few weeks.
    Who's Mitch@Trek
    Community Manager | Trek Bicycle Corporation | www.trekbikes.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitch@Trek View Post
    Who's Mitch@Trek
    Don't make me call your boss!

    By the way, do you have their name and number?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Train Wreck View Post
    Don't make me call your boss!

    By the way, do you have their name and number?
    Those are trade secrets and all our names are actually code names. Just like this teaser we released Let's just say, it is something for everyone and it will change a standard that has been accepted for years. That is all I can and shall say until the 19th!
    Community Manager | Trek Bicycle Corporation | www.trekbikes.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrIcky View Post
    I don't think it's the recycling of the frame itself thats the issue, it's all the waste from the buildup. When they cut all the fabric shapes for the layup- about 1/4 to 1/3 of the fabric ends up going in the garbage. I'm not a big time environmentalist or anything- I've just seen a lot of articles attacking the process. Seems like an issue that ripe to set itself apart from competitors.
    Sounds like they're about 8 years ahead of you ...

    https://www.compositesworld.com/news...-in-first-year

    From the article:

    Since April of 2011, all manufacturing scraps, non-compliant frame components and select reclaimed warranty frames have undergone processing at MIT's South Carolina facility for repurposing in reinforced thermoplastic applications, including aerospace, automotive, medical and recreational applications.

  48. #48
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    Well, time to forget this for 2 weeks so I don't end up uselessly speculating.

    New material, but a return of the Y bike (BB on the main frame, not swingarm), but instead of the seatmast being fixed, it's on a linkage that can be remotely changed to adjust seat position and retract out of the way. No seatpost, just a saddle attached to it, that's long and allows you to slide forward and back to whatever effective STA you want.

    Crazy ideas like that pop up. xD

  49. #49
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    What would be awesome is for someone to figure out a plastic that can be injection-molded with the strength and toughness of CF. The manual labor of CF is a killer. That combined with the constant question of consistency when a human is laying up CF. So, despite companies running to China, unfortunately, for cheap labor rates, they still have to price things to probably throw away about 10% of parts.

    Anyway, I know a lot of other polymer companies are working on the same thing, so maybe someone figured something out and Trek is trying it. (No way that Trek invented some new polymer... they'd just work on using some new polymer from someone else, for their bicycle application.)
    Have fun!

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  51. #51
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    Given the history of Lemond and Trek, we can cross that one off the list of possible Trek announcements

  52. #52
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    Giant must have made this discovery first as they make trek. Even the us made madone and downhill have to use offshore carbon

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitch@Trek View Post
    it will change a standard that has been accepted for years

    yay...???

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    Some sort of 3D printed carbon tubing
    FilipinoMafia - Ohio Chapter

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    Quote Originally Posted by PhillipJ View Post
    yay...???
    He didn't say a bike standard. Could be anything. Obviously he has to be as vague as possible.

  56. #56
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    Fun Time: An integrated, wireless, voice activated dropper post?!
    Whining is not a strategy.

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    Plenty of standards can be reinvented.

    - the wheel and tire interface (make rim flanges replaceable? make spokes replaceable without removing tire, while also improving their bracing angle?)
    - the human to bike interface (pedal connection to crank and handlebar geo)
    - housing of components outside of the frame, compared to be enclosed in frame or cases.
    - fine tuning axle paths for suspension linkages, including a front linkage fork

    Standards are there cause bike creation is a team effort. Don't need 'em if you're able to make the entire thing a system yourself, and just focus on how the bike, rider, and trail interact. Plenty of room for improvement. How far Trek goes, is a guess at this point, and the only data we got was in that email, with the picture and the significance of the words.

    In the end, gotta make the most out of the what you have to work with. I consider that good bike design would efficiently get the most out of the rider. Doesn't make sense to always focus on making things lighter, when there are big improvements to be had elsewhere. Don't want to put high expectations on Trek, since big established brands have to tread carefully, so "innovation" tends to be quite incremental... oversize this, and when that becomes normal, and refined to meet the demands of a wider user base, oversize it again? xD

    Can at least hope that there's a convincing engineer among them that comes from out of the bike industry, to inject fresh ideas, as opposed to conserving typical industrial engineering incest.

    P.S. anyone got that image of that one concept that showed all the components impossibly enclosed inside the frame?

  58. #58
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    its a new BB standard
    always mad and usually drunk......

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    Geared chainless driveline?
    Trek Top Fuel 9.9 RSL

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    shit.....I hope I don't become irrelevant

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    Quote Originally Posted by oclvframe View Post
    shit.....I hope I don't become irrelevant
    lol , cool username !!

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigb73 View Post
    Great band.
    .

  65. #65
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    Any posts explicitly mentioning what is being announced on the 19th March will be deleted.

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    Corvette Forum tried your approach. Failed badly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by driver bob View Post
    Any posts explicitly mentioning what is being announced on the 19th March will be deleted.
    And why is that may I ask?

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnD View Post
    lol , cool username !!
    Been using it since I got my first oclv Trek back in '93. It was a Trek 5200.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JSGN View Post
    And why is that may I ask?
    I am assuming because Trek has explicitly asked that it not be shared and people need to respect that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshandhisbikes View Post
    I am assuming because Trek has explicitly asked that it not be shared and people need to respect that.
    You assume correctly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedalon2018 View Post
    Corvette Forum tried your approach. Failed badly.
    How so? I'm still not seeing anything definitive regarding the C8.

    Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    How so? I'm still not seeing anything definitive regarding the C8.

    Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
    Referring to c6 and C7. I even posted very close ups of seven C6ís including inside shots. Was threatened to get booted. Empty threat.With social media, you can not bottle up knowledge.

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    Quote Originally Posted by driver bob View Post
    You assume correctly.
    Companies that try to stifle info will never get another dime of my money. Trek is now cut off permanently. While I still one one Vette, I now drive Porches. No more Chevies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshandhisbikes View Post
    I am assuming because Trek has explicitly asked that it not be shared and people need to respect that.
    I thought this was an open message board but it clearly isnt as its being run with Gestapo methods. Good to know tho.

    Its not our concern if Trek is leaking info like a sieve.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JSGN View Post
    I thought this was an open message board but it clearly isnt as its being run with Gestapo methods. Good to know tho.

    Its not our concern if Trek is leaking info like a sieve.
    Yep, you nailed it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedalon2018 View Post
    Companies that try to stifle info will never get another dime of my money. Trek is now cut off permanently. While I still one one Vette, I now drive Porches. No more Chevies.
    Then you won't be buying from any bike companies any time soon.

    Quote Originally Posted by JSGN View Post
    I thought this was an open message board but it clearly isnt as its being run with Gestapo methods. Good to know tho.

    Its not our concern if Trek is leaking info like a sieve.
    I don't see Trek here leaking anything...

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshandhisbikes View Post
    Then you won't be buying from any bike companies any time soon.



    I don't see Trek here leaking anything...


    If the moderators are asked to remove information about the "thing" being revealed on the 19th, its only from Trek the information could have been leaked in the first place. As they are the only ones sitting on the information. Trek is the source, thus if information is leaked here, its Trek who are leaking in the first place. Get it?

  78. #78
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    I'm not sure what's funnier, this thread or the hype of what's coming.

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedalon2018 View Post
    Companies that try to stifle info will never get another dime of my money. Trek is now cut off permanently. While I still one one Vette, I now drive Porches. No more Chevies.
    Iím pretty sure you canít buy anything from any mid-size or larger companies then, as the all hold info for launch impact, IP, or other reasons....no smart phones for you, definitely no bikes, no new TVs, no technology of any sort, no healthcare products, canít stay in a major hotel property, no new cars (smoking crack if you think Porsche reveals new tech or models as soon as they develop the idea)...you will be very limited in what you can buy with that stipulation...

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSGN View Post
    If the moderators are asked to remove information about the "thing" being revealed on the 19th, its only from Trek the information could have been leaked in the first place. As they are the only ones sitting on the information. Trek is the source, thus if information is leaked here, its Trek who are leaking in the first place. Get it?
    Trek released a dealer update yesterday with details of the product. They also explicitly stated that no information about the product is released until the official announcement on March 19th.

    We have a responsibility to respect that request. The forum guidelines are posted here: https://forums.mtbr.com/site-feedbac...s-1077662.html

    "we must reserve the right to remove messages. However, we truly love this community, so we will only remove any given message if we judge that it's in the best interest of the community. "

    In this instance I'm reserving the right to remove confidential industry content.

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haymarket View Post
    Iím pretty sure you canít buy anything from any mid-size or larger companies then, as the all hold info for launch impact, IP, or other reasons....no smart phones for you, definitely no bikes, no new TVs, no technology of any sort, no healthcare products, canít stay in a major hotel property, no new cars (smoking crack if you think Porsche reveals new tech or models as soon as they develop the idea)...you will be very limited in what you can buy with that stipulation...
    Average Joe only has a few tools to fight back against what we object to. One is social media. The other, our choice to buy or not buy a product. Chevy not only tried to sensor my input from publicly available info, they used their so called bankruptcy to deny claims based on that event. Have not bought a GM product since. Almost bought a Pro Cal 9.8 last year, glad I went a different route. No doubt companies can act in ways we do not support but if we have no knowledge about, we cannot act. NASCAR ownership and many Owners and Drivers actively supported Trump. I no longer watch or attend races. With the attendance and tv eyes greatly diminished, I know we have made an impact. I understand companies what to keep their stuff under wraps until they are ready. But restricting public comment is beyond what they should be doing. It is still America, for now!

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by driver bob View Post
    Trek released a dealer update yesterday with details of the product. They also explicitly stated that no information about the product is released until the official announcement on March 19th.

    We have a responsibility to respect that request. The forum guidelines are posted here: https://forums.mtbr.com/site-feedbac...s-1077662.html

    "we must reserve the right to remove messages. However, we truly love this community, so we will only remove any given message if we judge that it's in the best interest of the community. "

    In this instance I'm reserving the right to remove confidential industry content.


    Very well then. You have the guidelines and you are moderator so you do as you please, acceptable. However, in what way is removing leaked info "in the best interest of the community?"

  83. #83
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    I suppose you want the Mueller report buried.

  84. #84
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    Thatís why I love Jalopnik... post a story about the 2021 Ford Ranger info, issued a cease and desist by Ford, tell Ford ďneah, no thanksĒ as they werenít the ones who violated the NDA and made the images/information public to begin with.

  85. #85
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    Where's Wikileaks when you need them.
    Do the math.

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Rager View Post
    Where's Wikileaks when you need them.
    Standby, checking to see if wheelieleaks.com is taken.

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by zgxtreme View Post
    Thatís why I love Jalopnik... post a story about the 2021 Ford Ranger info, issued a cease and desist by Ford, tell Ford ďneah, no thanksĒ as they werenít the ones who violated the NDA and made the images/information public to begin with.
    Great example. I understand why a company would not want MTBR to publish info just giv n to them for a release on the 19th. However when Mountain Bike Rider Joe comes across info, I see no reason to mute that info. I commented on a SRAM 12 speed AXS I saw on a trail before release data, no one said a word negative about that.

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by zgxtreme View Post
    Standby, checking to see if wheelieleaks.com is taken.
    Aaahhh, always time for a laugh. Thanks!

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    IMO I don't think Trek is behind any of the actions being taken here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JSGN View Post
    Very well then. You have the guidelines and you are moderator so you do as you please, acceptable. However, in what way is removing leaked info "in the best interest of the community?"
    Community = MTBR. Community =/ users

    Users are here just to generate ad revenue. That's all. MTBR pisses off Trek, that means they will/might/can pull future press releases from MTBR, which means less ad revenue.

    $$$ talks. That's all that there is to it. Just go back to the Chumba incident of yesterday's past.

  91. #91
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    Having seen details of the "thing", I believe that y'all are going to be horribly disappointed next week. "Meh" just barely describes it. I mean, it's an interesting development, but doesn't really deserve the hype it's getting in this thread. Seriously.
    @pinkrobeyyc
    #pinkrobeyyc

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinkrobe View Post
    Having seen details of the "thing", I believe that y'all are going to be horribly disappointed next week. "Meh" just barely describes it. I mean, it's an interesting development, but doesn't really deserve the hype it's getting in this thread. Seriously.
    Iím all for any innovation but my main desire and hope is this leads to a new Top Fuel.

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinkrobe View Post
    Having seen details of the "thing", I believe that y'all are going to be horribly disappointed next week. "Meh" just barely describes it. I mean, it's an interesting development, but doesn't really deserve the hype it's getting in this thread. Seriously.
    Isn't that how it usually goes? High hype and expectations = disappointment.

    Just gotta realistically re-evaluate it afterwards... I wasn't really scoping out the latest in tech, like supertetrahedral aluminum, expecting such tech to take 5-10 years before making it to the market. Heck, maraging steel (Reynolds 953) is going by with hardly any notice. Super magnesium has stayed relatively quiet too, despite its promises, though it hasn't been too long since its public unveiling. Gotta compete with the discovery of a welding process for 7075 now too...

  94. #94
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    Understatement of the year.....
    Quote Originally Posted by pinkrobe View Post
    Having seen details of the "thing", I believe that y'all are going to be horribly disappointed next week. "Meh" just barely describes it. I mean, it's an interesting development, but doesn't really deserve the hype it's getting in this thread. Seriously.

  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by zgxtreme View Post
    Iím all for any innovation but my main desire and hope is this leads to a new Top Fuel.
    You will be disappointed. Extremly disappointed.

  96. #96
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    I disagree but I will let everyone else decide for themselves.

  97. #97
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    Just did some reading myself and had the same reaction, but, the more I sit and think on it I think there's definitely something to be excited about considering the implications for all riders.

  98. #98
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    Its a square BB isnt it?
    always mad and usually drunk......

  99. #99
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    Damn, how'd you guess it!

    Actually, my square BB on my commuter has been going on 5 years with daily use without fail...ha!

  100. #100
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    Hey folks, Mitchell from Trek here. We did not ask MTBR to censor anything about the hoverbike launch. Joking aside, we didnít ask for censorship.

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