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  1. #1
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    Transition Sentinel

    https://www.pinkbike.com/news/spy-sh...rail-bike.html

    The new long travel 29er is nearly here!!

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    Looks great!

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    SBG the Scout!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    Kinematics analysis of the new Sentinel:

    https://mrblackmorescorner.blogspot....anta-cruz.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by BluePitch View Post
    SBG the Scout!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    They are, and the Patrol. A distributor put the info up by mistake. Scout gets a metric shock, sentinel style linkage and the Patrol gets the rear travel increased, a new linkage like the sentinel and a trunnion mount shock.

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    Lars confirmed it on instagram - The Sentinel is 160mm front, 140mm back.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusettipasta View Post
    Lars confirmed it on instagram - The Sentinel is 160mm front, 140mm back.
    That's unfortunate... I was hoping for at least 150mm.
    It takes half a joule more to accelerate Brass Nipples over Alloy Nipples on a 29er to 30kph. :thumbsup:

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    Quote Originally Posted by softbatch View Post
    that's unfortunate... I was hoping for at least 150mm.
    twss
    Life is too short to ride a bike you don't love.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusettipasta View Post
    Lars confirmed it on instagram - The Sentinel is 160mm front, 140mm back.
    that's fortunate. this could make for a fantastic hard core trail bike, not an enduro pig. mind you a 64 degree head angle? i'm not sure how the hell a bike that slack would handle on anything short of serious steeps, but i'll have to have faith in the boys to work their magic to pull off a friendly trail bike as they have with the current gen bikes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cunningstunts View Post
    that's fortunate. this could make for a fantastic hard core trail bike, not an enduro pig.
    Nah 140mm on a 29er would be heaps for Enduro I think. Heck Greg Callahan is running a 140mm 29er. A lot of people are running 150mm 27.5 bikes and I think the 29er more than makes up for 10mm less travel.

  12. #12
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    Anyone have any word when this will be released? Website says "fall", hoping it's before then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Qtip2 View Post
    Anyone have any word when this will be released? Website says "fall", hoping it's before then.
    September(ish) hopefully.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir HC View Post
    September(ish) hopefully.
    Just sold my bike and looks like I am screwed. Was looking at this bike bike and Yeti 5.5. Both aren't available for over a month.

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    Well, hopefully you got what you wanted for it. I tend to find myself in a rush to sell a bike and then nothing lands. I had the chance to get a deal on some hella nice stumpy/enduro offerings for cheap, but was worried about selling my trailfox. No bites on the bikes, so I just waited and let the deal pass.

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    I did take a little less than what I wanted, but still not too bummed. I guess its just a sign to not be riding in this Phoenix weather.

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    Yes, hoping it will be out then! Def on my short list of bikes I want! It is between the Hightower LT, Yeti Sb5.5 and Sentinel. Any thoughts from people who have ridden the first two?

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    the LBS is both a Tranny and RMB dealer and they are besides themselves with excitement equally about the Sentinel and new Instinct especially the BC Edition. they can't talk about either bike though, just that both will be next level awesome. having both a Smug and Patrol, i'm very happy with that quiver but stoked to go down to Bellingham and try a Sentinel when possible.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by cunningstunts View Post
    the LBS is both a Tranny and RMB dealer and they are besides themselves with excitement equally about the Sentinel and new Instinct especially the BC Edition. they can't talk about either bike though, just that both will be next level awesome. having both a Smug and Patrol, i'm very happy with that quiver but stoked to go down to Bellingham and try a Sentinel when possible.
    This is what I bought new Spot Mayham 29er, 130mm rear and 140mm front. Bike is amazing!!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Transition Sentinel-p1070789.jpg  


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    Any word on a new version of the smuggler? Or will the sentinel replace it?

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    Anyone venture a comparison to other LT 29ers? Hard for me to translate the new geometry to familiar terms. I'm on the fence about buying a smuggler now, or holding out: the usual concerns about pedaling for everyday trail rides vs. capability for bigger rides.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by uknathank View Post
    Anyone venture a comparison to other LT 29ers? Hard for me to translate the new geometry to familiar terms. I'm on the fence about buying a smuggler now, or holding out: the usual concerns about pedaling for everyday trail rides vs. capability for bigger rides.
    I think it is realistic to expect a new Smuggler in the next year. Boost, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cunningstunts View Post
    the LBS is both a Tranny and RMB dealer and they are besides themselves with excitement equally about the Sentinel and new Instinct especially the BC Edition. they can't talk about either bike though, just that both will be next level awesome. having both a Smug and Patrol, i'm very happy with that quiver but stoked to go down to Bellingham and try a Sentinel when possible.
    you think they would tell you if it sucked?
    Denver, CO

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    Quote Originally Posted by uknathank View Post
    Anyone venture a comparison to other LT 29ers? Hard for me to translate the new geometry to familiar terms. I'm on the fence about buying a smuggler now, or holding out: the usual concerns about pedaling for everyday trail rides vs. capability for bigger rides.
    oops I meant, torn between going for a Smuggler now, or holding out for a Sentinel. I demo'ed a Smuggler and loved it, but would ideally like to have more travel... if the tradeoff in pedaling and slower speed handing isn't too great (the usual dilemma).

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    Quote Originally Posted by deserat View Post
    Any word on a new version of the smuggler? Or will the sentinel replace it?
    I think in a couple of months you will be presently surprised about the Smuggler. I know for a fact Sentinel not replacing.
    Id expect to see boost rear and maybe longer reach with few mm more travel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bbunnys View Post
    I think in a couple of months you will be presently surprised about the Smuggler. I know for a fact Sentinel not replacing.
    Id expect to see boost rear and maybe longer reach with few mm more travel.
    Awesome. That's what I want. Wonder how far down the road a carbon frame will be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by deserat View Post
    Awesome. That's what I want. Wonder how far down the road a carbon frame will be.
    No carbon on the cards that I know of.

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    https://www.instagram.com/p/BXtG2KBl...nsitionbikesuk

    I wonder why no one has found this...
    Now let's see the new Patrol!

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    Intrigued how consumers will be able to get hold of low offset 29er forks, will Transition sell as a framekit? Or are we going to have to source 27.5 steerer assemblies?

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by __U3__ View Post
    https://www.instagram.com/p/BXtG2KBl...nsitionbikesuk

    I wonder why no one has found this...
    Now let's see the new Patrol!
    2018 Patrol photos and specs were online the other month.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Draper View Post
    2018 Patrol photos and specs were online the other month.
    Can you help me with a link?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir HC View Post
    Intrigued how consumers will be able to get hold of low offset 29er forks, will Transition sell as a framekit? Or are we going to have to source 27.5 steerer assemblies?
    I'll be interested to see if/how fork manufacturers embrace this too. Could Joe Bloggs just order a fork from the manufacturer and spec their own offset/travel configuration?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir HC View Post
    Intrigued how consumers will be able to get hold of low offset 29er forks, will Transition sell as a framekit? Or are we going to have to source 27.5 steerer assemblies?
    DVO said they will be offering low offset lowers as a aftermarket hop up next season. That has me quite excited as I have a new DVO Diamond, it's a great fork.

    I'm all over the Sentinel, I can't wait! The only other frame in my radar is the Nicolai G13 (somewhat less extreme Geometron), but bringing that to Canada is very pricy....

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by __U3__ View Post
    Can you help me with a link?
    No its been taken down now I'm afraid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bbunnys View Post
    No carbon on the cards that I know of.
    I know I'll hear it for saying this, but I'm going to have to wait for carbon then. I'm a Transition fan for a number of reasons, but I prefer carbon frames. Also, the reach on the medium smuggler I rode felt great. Not sure what all the geo changes will be on the smuggler (same as sentinel, scout, patrol?) and how it will feel as a whole, but the current medium is spot on for my geo preferences. Almost bought a frame a couple months ago but really wanted carbon, plus I figured they'd go boost eventually (honestly don't care either way on boost but I've already committed to a high dollar boost wheel set at this point). Hopefully the new smuggler will fit me good and I'll be psyched when it maybe goes plastic some day. Or maybe I'll suck it up and go back to metal.

  36. #36
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    I hear ya, I really want my next bike to be carbon, I love what they're doing with the geo but I don't think I'd buy another alloy bike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by David R View Post
    I hear ya, I really want my next bike to be carbon, I love what they're doing with the geo but I don't think I'd buy another alloy bike.
    Ditto, that bike looks perfect other than that.

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    Transition Sentinel

    I wonder how they're going to pedal? Sure they'll climb tech well in the open setting and I get what transition's priorities are with these bikes. But I'm a closet xc nerd and am hoping for a bit more efficiency out of the giddy up.


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    According to Vital the Sentinel is due out in the next few months.

    Dan Wolfe's Prototype Transition Sentinel - PIT BITS - Crankworx Whistler - Mountain Biking Pictures - Vital MTB

    The pics appear to be of a larger size, maybe a XL based on the length of the seat post mast.

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    Bike is officially announced end of August with bikes shipping sometime in October. Pricing will be consistent with what they currently offer on the other bikes (X01 Eagle, GX Eagle & NX). They will also be selling just frame/fork combos for custom builds. Rockshox and Fox forks available.

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    https://www.pinkbike.com/news/transi...deo-bikes.html
    Transition Teases Four New 2018 Mountain Bikes in Hilarious Video - bturman - Mountain Biking Videos - Vital MTB

    Sentinel + other 2018 Giddyup 2.0 bikes shown here. Small travel increases all around in addition to the SBG.

    Not going to upgrade from my '16 Scout just yet, but these are looking mighty fine.

  42. #42
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    I'm just waiting on a geometry chart for the sentinel before I make my next move.

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    ^2018 Transition bike range includes new 160/140mm Sentinel 29er - MBR

    Here you go

    edit: damn, they've taken down the individual specs + geos for the bikes. Should've taken screenshots.
    Last edited by Rusettipasta; 08-22-2017 at 07:41 AM.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusettipasta View Post
    ^2018 Transition bike range includes new 160/140mm Sentinel 29er - MBR

    Here you go

    edit: damn, they've taken down the individual specs + geos for the bikes. Should've taken screenshots.
    Well I did ;-)

    Edit: better res screenshot to be found here
    https://ibb.co/cDczP5

    2nd edit: embedded image removed

  45. #45
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    Cool story, bro, but we can't actually read that blurry mess.
    Can you read it on your end?

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    sorry, the link should work now

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    There we go. Thanks!!

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by TeutB View Post
    sorry, the link should work now
    Hmm, I still can't read it.

    Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

  49. #49
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    Try the link he provided. https://ibb.co/cDczP5
    Image attachment still sucks.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by TeutB View Post
    Well I did ;-)

    Edit: better res screenshot to be found here
    https://ibb.co/cDczP5

    2nd edit: embedded image removed
    Sweet! Thanks for catching that.

  51. #51
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    Should be hearing something tomorrow from Transition. Super stoked!!

  52. #52
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    Wonder if you could put in 27.5+ wheels and how it would ride?

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by skiahh View Post
    Wonder if you could put in 27.5+ wheels and how it would ride?
    Curious too....I'm after a 29er but plus as an option is a bonus...


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    The spec says 2.5 max.

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    For 29.

    But yes, you can. I went by Transition and asked and they said it'll take plus tires (27.5). They also said they didn't really like them on the bike. That said, if you're a "more rubber" fan, it could be a pretty good set up.

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    Cool. Thank you.

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    I think the travel figures on the Sentinel would make it more useful than the Scout or Patrol for my planned rides, however I've never owned a 29er. Keen to test ride one once they're available.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skiahh View Post
    For 29.

    But yes, you can. I went by Transition and asked and they said it'll take plus tires (27.5). They also said they didn't really like them on the bike. That said, if you're a "more rubber" fan, it could be a pretty good set up.
    Thanks for that info!

    I don't wanna get off topic and start a debate about optimal tire width, but "real" loamy PNW-style dirt is pretty rare where I ride, so plus tires seem well suited for the eastern Sierras (very dry, loose decomposed rock that varies in flavor from silty talcum powder to 2" gravel).

    Did Transition say what the maximum width is for a 27.5" plus tire in the Sentinel's swingarm--2.8", or possibly wider?

  59. #59
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    Didn't specifically ask if 3" would fit, but 2.8 will.

    As for bigger tires on PNW loam, I've been riding my Borealis Echo with 26x4 out here, almost exclusively now, for about a year and having a blast on it. Winter mud, spring loam and summer dust and silt. Rocks, roots and even some jumps (though I'm not very good at jumping); it does it all and very well.

    I say that because I'm a fan of bigger rubber and even out here, bigger rubber is not "just a thing". It may not add much on the true loam trails, since they already give a nice soft ride with plenty of traction, but they certainly don't take anything away, either!

    I'm glad to see this "switch" capability in Transition, since as our local bike company, I really want to support them and so far, that ability to run either been a requirement in my new bike search criteria. Although, with 29x2.6, maybe that'll be the sweet spot and I'll stick with just the one wheelset.

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    What 29x2.6 tyres are available or expected? I mean aggressive ones like DHF, DHR2, MM.

    Personally I am between the new Patrol and the Sentinel and I just wished that the Sentinel had 160 rear travel.

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    Just do a search on "Wide Trail Tires". That ought to get you started. Lots of options coming out.

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    Yes you are correct. Somehow I have missed the 29er versions.

    Is anyone else have a dilemma between the Sentinel and the Patrol?

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    Formerly Travis Bickle

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    I'm torn between the sbg smuggler and the sentinel. I love my OG smuggler with a 150mm fork. I'm assuming the frames have to weight about the same. I wonder how differently they ride.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nhbrooks View Post
    I'm torn between the sbg smuggler and the sentinel. I love my OG smuggler with a 150mm fork. I'm assuming the frames have to weight about the same. I wonder how differently they ride.
    Fair question. It will probably come down to the age old question of what your priorities are. For me even though I *want* a bike that will magically make me an ok climber and able to hold a good pace on some of the XC stuff I do, end of day my rides are really about getting weird on the descents and the Sentinel will probably answer the mail better for me. Really hoping to ride these bikes this fall.

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    I wonder how close the two frames are. Seems like you could buy a sentinel and run a shorter shock and fork if you wanted smuggler like handling. That would be like having teo bikes in one.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nhbrooks View Post
    I'm torn between the sbg smuggler and the sentinel. I love my OG smuggler with a 150mm fork. I'm assuming the frames have to weight about the same. I wonder how differently they ride.
    Jumping from the Smuggler, over the Scout, to the Sentinel?

    Interesting... why not the Scout?

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    Yes it's a good thing to see eh! I took a couple of them riding while they were visiting Scotland and spent the whole time banging on about 3" tyres. They didn't seem very interested in the whole thing. We have similar trails to you guys and I find plus tyres amazing for them.

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    I am looking forward to the Transition demo fleet coming to town. I'm having a hard time seeing how the SBG will work in our slow tight techy trails, but there's only one way to know for sure. I'll be keen to throw a leg over the Sentinel.
    Safe riding,

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    Quote Originally Posted by skiahh View Post
    Jumping from the Smuggler, over the Scout, to the Sentinel?

    Interesting... why not the Scout?
    Ditto. I think a lot of riders are over-biking themselves. The new Scout is going to be rowdy. I've got the old one and I've often considered running it for Enduro races instead of the Patrol. The SBG version is longer, slacker and has more travel. I'd be pretty confident on it for a huge variety of riding.

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    Honestly I would love to try a scout but I have a stock pile of 29 wheels and tires. The scout looks awesome though.

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    I am a little bit confused about this bike. Is it an all arounder as the travel suggests or is it a mini DH bike as the head angle and the Pinkbike review suggests?

    Because if it is an all arounder then the head angle seems to be too slack but if it is a mini DH bike then the rear travel seems to be not enough.

    Personally I would have preferred it to be 160/160 because I also have a 160/140 bike and I always feel like something is missing (20mm of travel most probably ).

    Anyway I guess that the new Patrol may be a better fit for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gpgalanis View Post
    I am a little bit confused about this bike. Is it an all arounder as the travel suggests or is it a mini DH bike as the head angle and the Pinkbike review suggests?

    Because if it is an all arounder then the head angle seems to be too slack but if it is a mini DH bike then the rear travel seems to be not enough.

    Personally I would have preferred it to be 160/160 because I also have a 160/140 bike and I always feel like something is missing (20mm of travel most probably ).

    Anyway I guess that the new Patrol may be a better fit for me.
    You literally made this same comment on the Pinkbike article 2 days ago. Are you looking for someone to agree with you? HaHa... just giving you a hard time.

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by gpgalanis View Post
    Because if it is an all arounder then the head angle seems to be too slack but if it is a mini DH bike then the rear travel seems to be not enough.
    You need to read Transition's SBG info: Transition Bikes

    Trying to analyze the HTA out of the context of the SBG concept is not going to lead to you understanding the purpose of the bike.
    Safe riding,

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    Quote Originally Posted by delarosa View Post
    You literally made this same comment on the Pinkbike article 2 days ago. Are you looking for someone to agree with you? HaHa... just giving you a hard time.
    It is easier to copy and paste!

    Still I am a little disappointed that it is not a 160-160 bike because I would have already preordered it!

    As for the friend speaking about the SBG I have a 160/140 bike with long reach and 42 offset already and when I have put an angleset to drop it to 64.5 it simply didn't turn the way it did before.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gpgalanis View Post
    Still I am a little disappointed that it is not a 160-160 bike because I would have already preordered it!
    Sounds like the Patrol is more the bike you are after anyway I think.

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    Hey Giddy Up fans. Loving all the discussion here, good stuff.

    Here's another perspective on the Sentinel's handling - First Ride: Transition Sentinel | BIKE Magazine

    A quick general note on our SBG system.

    Wheel flop - When you deviate to a certain point in the steering axis from center (straight ahead) and the axle actually begins to fall lowering the front axle. At this point the handlebars want to continue turning. As we've made the headtube angles slacker, and reduced the fork offset, we're intentionally using an earlier wheel flop point to our advantage- Will come back to this later.

    Wheel flop is counteracted by wheel velocity. At slow wheel rotational speeds, the bike want's to help you turn around sharp corners. Think slow speed uphill and downhill switchbacks, and other slow speed scenarios where you need to turn the handlebars more. Here's the neat part, as wheel speed increases the velocity overcomes the flop and makes the handlebars want to stay straight. It also changes the directional changing mechanism by leaning opposed to steering.

    When you go slow (like when climbing) the bike is easier to navigate tighter turns, and as you go faster it becomes more stable.

    There's a lot more physics at play than to simply look at the headtube angle and say it will handle like this, or to read that the steering trail figures are longer and say it will handle like that.

    It really is an intuitive system, and the feel changes based on the speed your riding.

    We will be building a demo fleet as soon as possible, as to ride them is really the only way to understand how they do what they do.

    We can say, we have watched a number of very adept journalists ride them and say some pretty amazing things afterwards.

    Party on!

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Transition Bikes View Post
    Hey Giddy Up fans. Loving all the discussion here, good stuff.

    Here's another perspective on the Sentinel's handling - First Ride: Transition Sentinel | BIKE Magazine

    A quick general note on our SBG system.

    Wheel flop - When you deviate to a certain point in the steering axis from center (straight ahead) and the axle actually begins to fall lowering the front axle. At this point the handlebars want to continue turning. As we've made the headtube angles slacker, and reduced the fork offset, we're intentionally using an earlier wheel flop point to our advantage- Will come back to this later.

    Wheel flop is counteracted by wheel velocity. At slow wheel rotational speeds, the bike want's to help you turn around sharp corners. Think slow speed uphill and downhill switchbacks, and other slow speed scenarios where you need to turn the handlebars more. Here's the neat part, as wheel speed increases the velocity overcomes the flop and makes the handlebars want to stay straight. It also changes the directional changing mechanism by leaning opposed to steering.

    When you go slow (like when climbing) the bike is easier to navigate tighter turns, and as you go faster it becomes more stable.

    There's a lot more physics at play than to simply look at the headtube angle and say it will handle like this, or to read that the steering trail figures are longer and say it will handle like that.

    It really is an intuitive system, and the feel changes based on the speed your riding.

    We will be building a demo fleet as soon as possible, as to ride them is really the only way to understand how they do what they do.

    We can say, we have watched a number of very adept journalists ride them and say some pretty amazing things afterwards.

    Party on!
    Cool...and 140/160 29er born in the PNW sounds like my perfect bike, but when are you going to make it in carbon?
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

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    ^ what he said.

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    @TransitionBikes: Why didn't you make the Sentinel 160/160? Most probably the answer would be that the bike rides great as it is but then why did you make the Patrol 170/160?

    Somehow I think that this is related to the combination of bigger wheels and more travel that may require some compromises but then again look at the Enduro 29 or the Wreckoning.

    Don't get me wrong I am just curious and most probably get the Patrol but I really wished I could get the Sentinel.

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    I updated the entry with the 205x57.5 mm shock size. @Transition Bikes what do you think? I try to do the most accurate possible using CAD and Linkage software. If I can improve the analysis please contact with me, thanks.

    Kinematics apart, I would love to test the SBG. Will be any test bikes in Spain? Cheers!

    https://mrblackmorescorner.blogspot....anta-cruz.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Blackmores View Post
    I updated the entry with the 205x57.5 mm shock size. @Transition Bikes what do you think? I try to do the most accurate possible using CAD and Linkage software. If I can improve the analysis please contact with me, thanks.

    Kinematics apart, I would love to test the SBG. Will be any test bikes in Spain? Cheers!

    https://mrblackmorescorner.blogspot....anta-cruz.html
    I didn't think they made a shock @ 57.5 stroke. I thought it was 60mm
    Life is like riding a bicycle. To stay balanced, one must keep moving. - Albert Einstein

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    Quote Originally Posted by thegromit View Post
    I didn't think they made a shock @ 57.5 stroke. I thought it was 60mm
    It's official and not good news if you want to change the shock :S

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Blackmores View Post
    It's official and not good news if you want to change the shock :S
    So they went to metric shocks then, made one thats a random length?
    Life is like riding a bicycle. To stay balanced, one must keep moving. - Albert Einstein

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    Its the same length shock ad the Trek Slash.

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    That is. For example the new Giant Trance or the new GG The Smash have specific metric strokes (52.5 and 62.5 mm respectively).

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    Quote Originally Posted by thegromit View Post
    So they went to metric shocks then, made one thats a random length?
    Nothing random... They make trunnion mount shocks in 205mm with 65mm and 60mm strokes that can be further reduced by 2.5mm. So 65, 62.5, 60 and 57.5mm strokes are possible in 205mm trunnion and 230mm non-trunnion.

    My real question is can we remove that spacer?

  88. #88
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    So long shocking it? Would raise bb some, but more travel. hmmm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crit Rat View Post
    So long shocking it? Would raise bb some, but more travel. hmmm
    Removing a spacer increases stroke but not eye2eye, so geo is unchanged but travel bumps up. Issues are shock/frame clearance and rear tire/seat tube clearance. Changing stroke by 2.5mm would be 5-7mm travel so probably doable.
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    so you pros have determined that the bike is insufficient as it is without seeing one, or riding one and are already planning to modify a cutting edge new bike. ****ing insanity.

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    Harmless e-speculation.
    I will say that the 140/160 bikes I've ridden all have fallen short in balance and capability compared to a 160/160 bike a la Wreckoning.
    Can't wait to ride one. Current stoke would be higher for me w/ 150+ rear.

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    Many of us have ridden 150mm-160mm 29ers before and love what the back end can do with the bigger wheel and that kind of travel. This bike has even more aggressive geo. So it likely will want to be able to go the speed that the geo, and the fork travel will allow but will be limited by rear end travel, which is out of balance with the front to begin with. Perfectly fine to want even travel numbers at both ends, or more in back.

    I'd be curious to hear official input from Transition on bottom-out clearance. I suspect there isn't much, based on the video on this page: https://www.pinkbike.com/news/transi...view-2017.html The yoke comes within kissing distance of the seattube on bottom-out. Oh well. I'd be willing to bet Transition decided to sacrifice a bit of total travel for the steep seat tube angle.

    I want both, but I'll take the seat-tube angle if I have to pick one.

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    I think that it is much easier to make a 140 travel 29er than a 160 one and this is why they most probably went with this option. I have already said that I consider this to be a pity but it is not the end of the world either unless you are doing big jumps, drops etc.

    My personal bike is a 160-140 and the only think I wish it was different was the rear travel. Not because it can't follow the front but simply because I could do bigger drops etc without always bottoming out even with a spacer installed in the shock.

    Because somehow it is impossible (at least for me) to set it up in order to be plush enough for general trail riding and the same time supportive enough in order to resist bottoming out in drops etc.

    Don't get me wrong geometry wise the Sentinel is fantastic but travel wise it could have been better. I have already said that the Patrol seems to be a better option for me but I would like a 29er instead. Maybe the Whyte S150 is a good alternative for me.

  94. #94
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    I wait for the demo truck! Bring it on!
    Safe riding,

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    Morning folks!

    The Sentinel is a 100% purpose built bike. There was no compromise with the travel range and geometry, and we explored many different variations during the design and testing process. As with the rest of the V2 line up. All models have a bit less rear travel than fork travel, and this is something we feel suits our bikes very well. Most people who've ridden our bikes can attest, they feel like they have more travel than the travel number suggests.

    And yes, removing a shock travel reducer will cause interference on bottom out. Which again, was not by accident.

    Party on!

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    Based on my experience with the V1 bikes, 140mm will be plenty. Can't wait.

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    Been long forking my bikes for years and years. 15-20mm travel difference front to rear is the sweet spot imo. Good to see bike companies building this into the geometry from go. Super interested to try a sentinel. Not a doubt in my mind it will crush downhills, it's the slow speed tech & tight stuff I am curious about.
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    140 or 150, 10mm isn't going to change anyone's life. Only those people upset that someone put a pea under their mattress would really notice.
    Formerly Travis Bickle

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    How would characterize the purpose of each of the new bikes? I am a PNW rider and looking to move to a longer travel 29er from my 140/125 Niner Rip, and the Senitnel is much slacker and longer than competing bikes (Wreckoning, GG Smash etc) which makes me think it will be a handful on less rowdy trails. Also why no shimano builds?

  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    Been long forking my bikes for years and years. 15-20mm travel difference front to rear is the sweet spot imo. Good to see bike companies building this into the geometry from go. Super interested to try a sentinel. Not a doubt in my mind it will crush downhills, it's the slow speed tech & tight stuff I am curious about.
    This thread has got me thinking about geometry and head tube angles . . .

    How is rear travel measured? I always assumed it was the vertical distance the wheel moves between full extension and full compression. If that's the case, it seems that if you want the front and rear travel to be "balanced" you would need the fork travel to be longer than the rear travel because the vertical travel of the fork will be less than the nominal travel. As the headtube angle slackens, this becomes more pronounced.

    My trig is a little rusty, but I think the vertical travel of the fork = sin(HTA) * fork travel. So for the sentinel, sin(64 degrees)*160mm = 143 mm vertical travel. Pretty closely matched to the rear.

    Seems like the math supports Whalenards observations.

  101. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sid Duffman View Post
    This thread has got me thinking about geometry and head tube angles . . .

    How is rear travel measured? I always assumed it was the vertical distance the wheel moves between full extension and full compression. If that's the case, it seems that if you want the front and rear travel to be "balanced" you would need the fork travel to be longer than the rear travel because the vertical travel of the fork will be less than the nominal travel. As the headtube angle slackens, this becomes more pronounced.

    My trig is a little rusty, but I think the vertical travel of the fork = sin(HTA) * fork travel. So for the sentinel, sin(64 degrees)*160mm = 143 mm vertical travel. Pretty closely matched to the rear.

    Seems like the math supports Whalenards observations.
    Yep. Considered this calculation before in the process of over forking many(most) previous bikes. The converse is having to explain why the 160/160 bike(built up from the 140/160 bike parts, including fork) seemed more balanced. Factors involved include design intent, rear suss kinematics, running more rear sag (30vs20%) and more rear weight bias(60-70%) depending on riding style.
    Certainly would expect the Sentinel, designed for that travel, to feel balanced and more dialed in than an aftermarket Frankenforker.
    Just excited so many great bikes being built with unique fit and feel, hope to ride them all!
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    Not to throw off the tech talk, but what are people's thoughts on going from carbon (SC "C") to an aluminum Sentinel? Will it be super noticeable, or is modern aluminum pretty solid?

  103. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    140 or 150, 10mm isn't going to change anyone's life. Only those people upset that someone put a pea under their mattress would really notice.
    Ha. I like that.

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    Hi all

    I assume that nobody has ridden the Sentinel but I have a question and I must set up my mind.

    I struggle to choose between the Sentinel and the new Kona Process 29".
    I am not talking about comparison between spec. only pure geometry

    The main point that I worry about is that the Sentinel feels too much a bike only because of the slack HA (64) compare to the 66 HA of the Kona.

    what do you think guys?

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    Quote Originally Posted by alonmil View Post
    The main point that I worry about is that the Sentinel feels too much a bike only because of the slack HA (64) compare to the 66 HA of the Kona.

    what do you think guys?
    I think that's the wrong way to look at it. Go re-read the SBG info Transition has posted. Trying to parse it down to a HTA and draw conclusions from that is leading you in the wrong direction.
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    I don't believe that the HA alone makes a bike too much or too less.

    Having said that a few friends have bought quite slack bikes (around 65) and at least at the beginning they have straggled with front tire traction because they required a different way of riding with more forward bias.

    I have also experienced the same when I placed an angleset to my current bike so I decided to remove it even though I use a 29 160 fork with 44 offset in a forward geometry bike.

    I understand that the whole geometry and fork offsets can influence the above but only to a certain degree so I would (and I will) wait to try one before deciding.

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    these bikes are a new paradigm and i agree, they need to be ridden before coming to any conclusions. i want to try each of them, i can't wait for them to be up and running.

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    This new Sentinel is really intriguing me. Would be really nice to read some more test reports. I'm planning on moving to a modern 29er from a first gen Kona 153 and the Sentinel is on top of the bunch for me.


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    I would like to demo a Sentinel as well.

    And I am wondering how a Sentinel compares to a Whyte S150 given that they have the same wheelsize, travel range and a similar geometry concept (smaller fork offset, etc.). Can anyone offer insights on the ride difference between these two bikes?

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    Quote Originally Posted by F-Bomb View Post
    Can anyone offer insights on the ride difference between these two bikes?
    Both bikes are not at dealers yet so unless you know a magazine tester that rode both (not sure if there is anyone that actually did it) it will take a bit of time to get a comparison between the two.
    Having said that,just by looking at the numbers ׁ(HA mostly) it seems the Sentinel will potentially be a bit more aggressive .You can also see that the s150 doesnt come with a piggyback shock or a Lyrik/36 which can also suggest that its not meant to be as aggressive.

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    Numbers on the Sentinel is kind of in line with Pole Evolinks 140 model. Know theyve been testing forks with shorter offset too. The reviews on the Pole is that it really can carry a lot of speed on flat terrain as well as climb very well. Poles wheelbase is even longer though, would love to try both out..

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    Fabulous Bike!

    Just got back from Outerbike. This was by far my favorite bike I rode. The suspension has all the FSR/HOSRT/GIDDYUP supple love. It's sooo easy to ride. I don't think it gives up anything from turning perspective on slower techy stuff to XC type tights. It pops off little and big things so easily. I kept thinking --- 64 degree head angle! How is this possible. Climbing it's amazing - I think it's the best climbing bike I've ever ridden (the new Mach 6 maybe a close second).

    I also tested the new Rocky Mountain Instinct as it's more in line with what I currently ride, a Stumpjumper 29. It just felt like a lighter, and nicer version of my stumpy. Not as ground breaking as the Sentinel or as fun to ride even thought it's lighter.

    I then rode the Kona Process 153 27.5. This felt too harsh/racy the rear is so stiff under pedaling that small hits and bumps were jarring. Super stable but harder to loft and play with than the Sentinel. Also felt beat up after a 20mi ride.

    Lastly I rode the new Mach 6 carbon. Whoa - close contender. I was tired but that bike pedals, climbs, takes the small stuff well. However, for the money I'd go with the Sentinel and I feel you don't give up anything with the 20 mm rear travel difference but gain the awesome roll over of the 29.

    Again I know my review is choppy but man. TR has really done something special with this bike. It was aluminum and I didn't care that it was heavy. It was soo much fun. Steep stuff - was stable, climbing - where do you want to go? - XC type stuff - playful and not a handful. If I had more time I'd like to have tried the new Smuggler.

    Cheers!

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    Nice review.

    Would you ride the Sentinel on a multi-day multi-thousands of feet of climbing ride? (I'm thinking San Juan Huts or Kokopelli Trail or BC Bike Race)?

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    How does the 140mm rear end handle sharp edges and chop compared to the 160mm front?

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    Quote Originally Posted by skiahh View Post
    Nice review.

    Would you ride the Sentinel on a multi-day multi-thousands of feet of climbing ride? (I'm thinking San Juan Huts or Kokopelli Trail or BC Bike Race)?
    I've never done more than 2-3 days of 3K+ feet of climbing. But I'd take this bike cause if I was tired it's still easy to maneuver. However, I don't think it's light by any stretch of the imagination.

    How does the 140mm rear end handle sharp edges and chop compared to the 160mm front?
    It's just fine. The front and rear balance really well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dblom View Post
    Numbers on the Sentinel is kind of in line with Pole Evolinks 140 model. Know theyve been testing forks with shorter offset too. The reviews on the Pole is that it really can carry a lot of speed on flat terrain as well as climb very well. Poles wheelbase is even longer though, would love to try both out..
    'can carry a lot of speed on flat terrain', now there's a unique selling feature. not a lot of mtn bikes can pull this off well.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by cunningstunts View Post
    'can carry a lot of speed on flat terrain', now there's a unique selling feature. not a lot of mtn bikes can pull this off well.....
    Yeah was obviously talking about sections of trail thats flatish.. See a lot of guys out in the woods at home with those and theyre all really stoked on them.

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    for all the "between sizes" out there,
    I have pre-ordered the Sentinel in my local LBS but I'm still struggling what size to take, L or XL.

    My height is 187cm (6' 2"),

    currently I am riding a Kona Process 134 2014 size L.
    it has a reach of 460 and it's Top-Tube length is 631mm
    it feels bit short while I'm pedalling on the Saddle, out of the saddle, on descent it feels perfect

    The L sentinel has reach of 475mm and 611 mm Top-Tube length.
    it is shorter than than my Kona by 2 cm, so actually it will feel much more cramped when I'm on the saddle and maybe it will feel bit "small" for me.

    By looking on the Numbers of the XL Sentinel, it is much bigger and longer bike, and I afraid that it will be too big for me to maneuver and "play" with it.

    what do you recommend to do?,
    what size to take?

  119. #119
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    I'd go large, focusing on the reach more than the top tube. If you're worried about being cramped in the saddle, you can move the seat back on the rails a bit or go with a wider bar to spread yourself out a bit more. To me, the wheelbase on these bikes is getting to the point where they can be hard to handle on tighter terrain. I'm 6' 3" but it's mostly in my legs, I'm going from an XL Patrol back to a Large.
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    I would most probably choose the XL based on my Mondraker experience. I am 1.83 and ride a L Crafty that has similar reach numbers to the XL Sentinel and I wouldn't want anything less than that and the same applies to the effective top tube numbers that are affected by the seat angle.

    I understand the benefits of the steeper seat angle but it affects the effective top tube and definitely feel much more comfortable on a longer bike overall (reach, effective top tube, wheelbase etc).

    But at the end of the day it's all about personal preferences.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alonmil View Post
    for all the "between sizes" out there,...
    I'm 6'1 and riding a Patrol in L, but I wanna size up because the L feels a bit cramped to me. I wrote TR for an advice and if the new SBG bikes (in same size) with longer reach would help here:

    "If the LG felt short for you, the new one will still feel short. The longer reach is part of the SBG setup and sizing. If you use a shorter offset SBG fork on a "regular" bike it makes it feel quite a bit smaller and out of balance. We know that the longer reach longer wheelbase can be intimidating, but it's part of the whole package. You may find that a 35mm stem in place of the 40mm stem makes sense, but I am confident that the XL won't be too big for you. On the other hand, the LG could still work, but I would be worried you will find it too small. Most people get on a new SBG Patrol and their first comment is something along the lines of "That doesn't actually feel that big" so don't be scared... "

    Don't get fooled by numbers - they are an approach, not more. When in doubt I would size up & use short stem. I'm pretty sure most will get used to a bigger frame when they are stuck between two sizes.

  122. #122
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    Interesting regarding sizing. I'm pretty proportional at 6', but also found the Large patrol too small. Given that I am serious about getting this bike, i guess I ought to find a demo. Poo

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    No demos around here, but pulled the trigger on a XL frame yesterday. Im 194cm 65, hope it will be good!

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    I'm just throwing this out there too. I started on a medium patrol last year and ended up on a large by the end of the season. I'm only 5'8". I agree with sizing up. I think even with these new bikes I'd still ride a large. At least with the patrol.

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    I got my hand at riding the Sentinel last night. I went out for a quick evening ride at my local spot and saw the Transition guys set up for a last minute demo on their way back from Pisgah. I wish I would have had time to ride all the SBG bikes, but I ended up spending my time on the Sentinel. I did a few laps on green flow trails, blue jump lines (some 20'+ tables and step ups), some twisty tech forest riding, and finished it off with the area's only double black run.

    My first thought was how well mannered it was when pedaling around. The climb up to most of the DH trails in the area is a bit of up and down, well packed and smooth. I was expecting it to feel more like a wet dog, but I was presently surprised how little wallow there was. Traction was great, and it didn't feel like I was towing an anchor. It took a little more body english than I was used to to make it around some of the uphill switchbacks, but nothing that was overly difficult. Overall much better than I had expected.

    Once I got to the downhill I could echo some of Mike's review points on pinkbike. The Sentinel is definitely more down than up on the spectrum, and it's length really lended itself to speed, if you have the room to really let it stretch its legs the bike really comes alive. I got this in bits and spurts, as the trails here aren't west coast loooooong descents.

    However it jumped remarkably well, very balanced in the air and solid. Even a few sloppy landings which would have jostled me up more felt smooth, the suspension was remarkably potent even for "only" having 140mm of travel.

    The few rock sections were absolutely gobbled up, and it had that distinct floating carpet feel over the boulders. Suspension setup obviously comes into play here, but if you prefer a more direct to the ground feel, I wasn't finding it.

    It definitely lagged for me in the tight forest. SBG trickery aside, there's no getting around the fact this is a looooooooooong bike. And I had to wrestle a few spots to get it around a tree or power through off camber stuff. Again, there's nothing keeping you from riding this as a trail bike, you're just going to have to work a little harder than you would on other options.

    Overall, I had a blast on the bike, and would highly recommend it for someone who gets enough time on the DH to appreciate it. For my active style riding and up/down/up/down area, I would prefer the Scout or smuggler.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluidworks View Post
    I got my hand at riding the Sentinel last night.....
    eccellente! thanks for that review!
    I would also be really interested in a comparison Sentinel vs (new) Patrol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluidworks View Post
    I got my hand at riding the Sentinel last night.
    Hey thanks for the review! Wish I could demo some new TR bikes! Did you ride the Sentinel in Pisgah? What trails?

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    I'm kind of surprised by the reviews saying this is such a downhill oriented bike, and not as sprightly on the up and flat. I wonder if this is a weight thing? Like if the frame and wheels were carbon if that would help.

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    If a 140 bike is such a downhill beast what would a 170 be? A Rampage killer? (Needless to ask about an actual DH bike).

    I understand that new bikes become more and more capable but somehow I find most reviews to repeat the same stereotypes.

  130. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by bhsavery View Post
    I'm kind of surprised by the reviews saying this is such a downhill oriented bike, and not as sprightly on the up and flat. I wonder if this is a weight thing? Like if the frame and wheels were carbon if that would help.
    why are you surprised? do the geometry numbers make it appear more like a general trail bike to you? on all levels, it looks like it could have been called Patrol 29er, which is what it is in approach. it ain't a Smuggler that's for sure.

  131. #131
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    Anybody know the bible of bikes line up yet?
    Would be curious to see if the sentinel is in there.
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

  132. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by monts View Post
    Hey thanks for the review! Wish I could demo some new TR bikes! Did you ride the Sentinel in Pisgah? What trails?

    No, not as Pisgah, here in Knoxville, TN.

  133. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by gpgalanis View Post
    If a 140 bike is such a downhill beast what would a 170 be? A Rampage killer? (Needless to ask about an actual DH bike).

    I understand that new bikes become more and more capable but somehow I find most reviews to repeat the same stereotypes.
    I found the same feeling during my (albeit) short ride. I think geometry and kinematics have a bigger role to play in modern bikes than just the travel numbers indicate.

  134. #134
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    I have a similar bike with 160-140, long reach, 42 fork offset etc and while it is really capable there is a limit to what 140 rear travel can do especially in drops, jumps etc.

    If it wasn't then the Patrol would also have 140 rear travel and the same applies for other similar bikes.

  135. #135
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    Delivery date March on my XL frame..

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    @dblom What color?

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    Is there any rumor for a carbon version?

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    Black. But Im in Scandinavia, could be different in North America maybe..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ntinos P View Post
    Is there any rumor for a carbon version?
    There's been some speculation but nothing definite that I know of...

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    Quote Originally Posted by dblom View Post
    Delivery date March on my XL frame..
    Bummer. There are rumors about the first shipment being sold out and as far as I can tell no Sentinels in the US yet, but March sounds really late.

    UPDATE: Transition has a new website, and you can purchase the Sentinel frame. Everything else is sold out. https://www.transitionbikes.com/Stor...ntinel&P=11847
    Last edited by adrian.bee; 10-25-2017 at 09:53 AM.

  141. #141
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    All sizes of Sentinel out of stock now too. Must have went fast. Hopefully Transition will see the big demand and step up production.

  142. #142
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    Just got word my TR Blue Sentinel will be ready late January/Early February... the wait...

  143. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by monts View Post
    Just got word my TR Blue Sentinel will be ready late January/Early February... the wait...
    Damn when did you order? What size?

  144. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by delarosa View Post
    Damn when did you order? What size?
    Just a couple weeks ago, so yeah, kinda late... it's an XL. Initially I thought I was going to be waiting longer for a blue one so I'm okay with Jan/Feb. Probably won't be able to ride regularly at that time anyway in the Northeast so be it.

  145. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by monts View Post
    Just a couple weeks ago, so yeah, kinda late... it's an XL. Initially I thought I was going to be waiting longer for a blue one so I'm okay with Jan/Feb. .
    Wait, so is it the color that is the delay? Or all the frames aren't coming until 2018?

  146. #146
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    The black one would have been early January I was told. So either way I was waiting until 2018

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    My LBS told me they got shipping notification on my blue XL. Hopefully it's here in a few days.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dfinn View Post
    My LBS told me they got shipping notification on my blue XL. Hopefully it's here in a few days.
    When did you order? I ordered mine on September 6th... still waiting to find out when it's coming.

  149. #149
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    I don't remember exactly but it was probably somewhere around that same time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by adrian.bee View Post
    Wait, so is it the color that is the delay? Or all the frames aren't coming until 2018?
    Also, there's always hope that some people backed out of their orders and that moves their bikes closer down the line to ours! wishful thinking I guess.

  151. #151
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    Ok looks like my frame and fork will be here Wednesday!

  152. #152
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    I just got a crash replacement seat stay for my patrol, while on the phone with TBC yesterday they said they were very busy as a new container of bikes was delivered.
    2016 Transition Patrol
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  153. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeburnsie View Post
    i just got a crash replacement seat stay for my patrol, while on the phone with tbc yesterday they said they were very busy as a new container of bikes was delivered.
    yesss!

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    Got my Sentinel frame yesterday! Interestingly enough my bike and a pre-ordered patrol are the only bikes to arrive so far at my LBC even though they ordered a demo fleet.

  156. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by delarosa View Post
    Got my Sentinel frame yesterday! Interestingly enough my bike and a pre-ordered patrol are the only bikes to arrive so far at my LBC even though they ordered a demo fleet.
    Sweet! just the frame? when did you order?

  157. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by dblom View Post
    Good video and review! I had the same experience and conclusion on my new Patrol, regarding how the bike rides. Transition nailed it.

    Are you going to be getting a Sentinel?

    Thanks for posting that vid

  158. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by monts View Post
    Sweet! just the frame? when did you order?
    Frame fork combo. September 6th.

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    Quote Originally Posted by delarosa View Post
    Frame fork combo. September 6th.
    Dang, I should've ordered one before I sold my bike. Gonna be looking at 2019 before a Sentinel is available

  160. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrian.bee View Post
    Dang, I should've ordered one before I sold my bike. Gonna be looking at 2019 before a Sentinel is available
    i got in on the second run, supposedly Late Jan early February, 2018 that is! haha

  161. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBY View Post
    Good video and review! I had the same experience and conclusion on my new Patrol, regarding how the bike rides. Transition nailed it.

    Are you going to be getting a Sentinel?

    Thanks for posting that vid
    Yeah I got a XL frame and fork on order to Sweden via the Finnish distributor. Was just in touch with Transition about how long of a dropper they though Id be able to fit with my 35.5 inseam. 170mm should work they said.. Cant wait but looks like I have to, delivery in feb/march..

  162. #162
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    I could demo a Sentinel GX size M this week. My first impressions are:
    i) It is comfortable to go up (god body position) and has good grip. But this particular bike weighted nearly 16 kg with tubes and heavy tyres. You are going to feel the extra kgs if you are in the saddle all day.
    ii) Coming from 26", the large 29" wheels definitely need 1-2 crank revolutions before the bike really gets rolling. But after that, on more open trail sections, I was surprised at how much speed it carried.
    iii) The bike felt stable and composed at lower and higher speeds. In comparison, a Specialized Enduro 29 I tried recently had a twitchy feel from time to time.
    I think the Sentinel is a very capable bike. At 1.75m tall, I would not describe this bike as very playful, but it is nonetheless very manageable and fun.

  163. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by F-Bomb View Post
    I could demo a Sentinel GX size M this week. My first impressions are:
    i) It is comfortable to go up (god body position) and has good grip. But this particular bike weighted nearly 16 kg with tubes and heavy tyres. You are going to feel the extra kgs if you are in the saddle all day.
    ii) Coming from 26", the large 29" wheels definitely need 1-2 crank revolutions before the bike really gets rolling. But after that, on more open trail sections, I was surprised at how much speed it carried.
    iii) The bike felt stable and composed at lower and higher speeds. In comparison, a Specialized Enduro 29 I tried recently had a twitchy feel from time to time.
    I think the Sentinel is a very capable bike. At 1.75m tall, I would not describe this bike as very playful, but it is nonetheless very manageable and fun.
    thanks for the review, I don't know, bike looked pretty playful in the video posted above... but rider height could affect that, I'm tall so I like the 29, I often find myself riding 29 the same way I would a 650b

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  165. #165
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    Nice pic!

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    Quote Originally Posted by dfinn View Post
    How was it on Porcupine Rim? The Sentinel is the perfect rig for TWE.

  167. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrian.bee View Post
    How was it on Porcupine Rim? The Sentinel is the perfect rig for TWE.
    I was fiddling with suspension setup and a few other things but for the most part it felt really good on TWE. That rim section was the only part where it did kind of feel like a lot of bike.

  168. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfinn View Post
    I was fiddling with suspension setup and a few other things but for the most part it felt really good on TWE. That rim section was the only part where it did kind of feel like a lot of bike.
    Maybe we're talking about different segments. I'm referring to the last 2-3 miles along the rim, where it's fast, rough and techy. Seems like a 140 29r would be ideal for keeping your speed and bashing thru the rough stuff.

    Are you talking about the flat segment on LPS?

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    I think the part I'm referring to is technically called UPS but yeah, the flat'ish section where you're going up and down through chunk along the ridge. Everywhere else the bike felt really good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dfinn View Post
    I think the part I'm referring to is technically called UPS but yeah, the flat'ish section where you're going up and down through chunk along the ridge. Everywhere else the bike felt really good.
    Gotcha. Either way, congrats on the new rig, looks real good!

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    Looks like all the TR builds, including Sentinel come with 170 crank arms. Think they did this for pedal strikes? I always ride 175 but i got a good deal on the kit so i guess I'm getting the carbon crank set with 170 arms.

  172. #172
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    I bought mine as a frame/fork and moved all of the parts I could from my Scout. I'm running 175mm cranks and I think I'm getting more pedal strikes than I had been on the Scout.

  173. #173
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    Hmmm.... maybe 170 is the way to go then, but all my other bikes have 175 so I'll feel it at first. Kinda strange the build kits do not offer the option??

  174. #174
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    They did it because of pedal strikes. There is absolutely no reason to run longer cranks than 170mm. Pedal strike city. I am will never buy another 175 crankset again.


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  175. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by coolhand80 View Post
    They did it because of pedal strikes. There is absolutely no reason to run longer cranks than 170mm. Pedal strike city. I am will never buy another 175 crankset again.


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    Nah, youre running 170 because your RF 175 fell apart! Haha, no I hear ya, hopefully it works out for best

  176. #176
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    Crank arm length is realistically a function of your femur length and whatnot for proper pedalling. Generally you can err a little bit on the length to account for ground clearance, but try to stay with what works for your physical size for best ergonomics. This might mean training yourself on pedal placement to avoid rock strikes.

    Luckily I munchkin cat legs so I can get away with 165/170mm cranks pretty easily.

  177. #177
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    does 5 mm make all that much difference either way? i can imagine it would reduce a few pedal strikes, but if your hitting at 175, you're still going to hit at 170 no? or do pedal strikes simply disappear at 170?

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    my mate just rode the Stl size large around the streets in front of the LBS today. he said it rocked. how's that for a review.

  179. #179
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    They don't disappear, but having ridden both on Patrol and Scouts here in Arizona where there are tons of rocks, it's surprisingly worse with 175. I know it doesn't seem like it would matter that much, but it does help. (I still have pedal strikes, just not as many).
    Binary Transition Bikes Demon Dirt

  180. #180
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    How much does this bike weight ?
    is the weight irrelevant in 2017 ? seriously i cant find the numbers anywhere ! and even if the bike pedals well, a 16kg rig is still 16kg and too for a 40-50km trips...

  181. #181
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    Mine in it's current form weighs 34 pounds. That's with maxxis double down tires in front and back. I'll be switching to a single ply tire up front and I have some new wheels on the way that will shave a little bit more weight off as well.

    When I threw it on the scale I was a little worried but it's been a non issue. The bike definitely pedals well and for me puts me in an absolute perfect position for climbing (I'm 5'11 and on a L).

  182. #182
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    Don't know. I never weigh my bikes!
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  183. #183
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    Pinkbike had a L @ 32 lbs.

    Maybe a touch portly but well within expectations for what it is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cunningstunts View Post
    does 5 mm make all that much difference either way? i can imagine it would reduce a few pedal strikes, but if your hitting at 175, you're still going to hit at 170 no? or do pedal strikes simply disappear at 170?
    It does make a difference. Had 175's on my N3 and now 170s on my Patrol. N3 had to be super careful pedaling through the chunk or I would definitely strike. The 170's clear MUCH better and dont think I've had a bad crash yet from a strike. Definitely ate it a few times on my N3 because of strikes. BB is about the same on both bikes too.

  185. #185
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    Interesting. For example, if I went to shorter cranks, would I need to lower my saddle and vice versa?

  186. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrian.bee View Post
    Interesting. For example, if I went to shorter cranks, would I need to lower my saddle and vice versa?
    If you went to shorter cranks you would need to raise your saddle. Your leg will extend 5mm less or whatever amount shorter cranks you try.


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    What do you guys think of the build kits?
    From NX to GX, you gain 12 gears and better suspension.
    But from NX to X01, you get carbon cranks and slightly better complements? Not sure how that translates in practice? Lower weight? More reliability? Is that worth 1000$ in your opinion?
    Cheers!

  188. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by F-Bomb View Post
    What do you guys think of the build kits?
    From NX to GX, you gain 12 gears and better suspension.
    But from NX to X01, you get carbon cranks and slightly better complements? Not sure how that translates in practice? Lower weight? More reliability? Is that worth 1000$ in your opinion?
    Cheers!
    I have been debating this for awhile. I think the main problem I have is for the immediate future there will not be much availability of forks with the correct offset if I ever plan to upgrade that fork. Transition has said they will have the correct forks available when buying frames so they are out there. Just not enough out there to pick one up at a discount. I have never ridden a Yari, or Lyrik for that matter but lets say you want to buy a Fox 36......they have a retail of $800-$1000 depending on what model you get.

    My other issue is just buying a bike with all these SRAM builds......just not a fan of brakes that have DOT fluid, XD drivers, and all the other PITA quirks that SRAM seems to engineer into their parts.

    Anytime I buy the entry level build kit I inherently start upgrading things anyway. I gotta stop doing this and buy the mid or upper level package to begin with.

  189. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by BluePitch View Post
    I have been debating this for awhile. I think the main problem I have is for the immediate future there will not be much availability of forks with the correct offset if I ever plan to upgrade that fork. Transition has said they will have the correct forks available when buying frames so they are out there. Just not enough out there to pick one up at a discount. I have never ridden a Yari, or Lyrik for that matter but lets say you want to buy a Fox 36......they have a retail of $800-$1000 depending on what model you get.

    My other issue is just buying a bike with all these SRAM builds......just not a fan of brakes that have DOT fluid, XD drivers, and all the other PITA quirks that SRAM seems to engineer into their parts.

    Anytime I buy the entry level build kit I inherently start upgrading things anyway. I gotta stop doing this and buy the mid or upper level package to begin with.
    The fork availability is a question of concern. But I think your going to see them start popping up soon. Believe it or not, i already snagged a 29 inch Fox 34 SBG fork in the used market. Haven't seen a 36 yet.

    Keep in mind with the NX build you do not get the DPX2 shock, that's around a $250 difference alone, also factor in cheap hubs on the GX and NX builds... the other notable price difference is the brakes. RSC can run you around $400 a set, the T level brake on the NX build is an $80 brake.

  190. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by BluePitch View Post
    I have been debating this for awhile. I think the main problem I have is for the immediate future there will not be much availability of forks with the correct offset if I ever plan to upgrade that fork. Transition has said they will have the correct forks available when buying frames so they are out there. Just not enough out there to pick one up at a discount. I have never ridden a Yari, or Lyrik for that matter but lets say you want to buy a Fox 36......they have a retail of $800-$1000 depending on what model you get.

    My other issue is just buying a bike with all these SRAM builds......just not a fan of brakes that have DOT fluid, XD drivers, and all the other PITA quirks that SRAM seems to engineer into their parts.

    Anytime I buy the entry level build kit I inherently start upgrading things anyway. I gotta stop doing this and buy the mid or upper level package to begin with.
    I can agree with you on some of that, however an XD driver is the only way to be 12x. I do the same (upgrade parts) doesnt matter the build level Ill still upgrade things as time goes on. I would have liked to see better hubs for the top build, that might have pushed me to that build. I went GX, its good enough


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    What do you guys think about anvl components? Ive never heard of them


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    Quote Originally Posted by rad3144 View Post
    What do you guys think about anvl components? Ive never heard of them


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    I like them, they are made by Transition. Well built, good quality, I've been using the Forge seat and ANVL stem on a couple of my other bikes.

  193. #193
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    Ok thats what I figured (that it was transitions House brand) looks pretty good.


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  194. #194
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    not a huge Sram fan either. i would be ordering frame and shock options on one of the new bikes if i go that route.

  195. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by rad3144 View Post
    I can agree with you on some of that, however an XD driver is the only way to be 12x. I do the same (upgrade parts) doesnt matter the build level Ill still upgrade things as time goes on. I would have liked to see better hubs for the top build, that might have pushed me to that build. I went GX, its good enough


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    I didnt even think about the 12speed, Im still on 11 speed! I have been on XT 10 speed and never needed any more gears. My current bike came with the XD driver and 11 speed so now I got XD, but extra Shimano driver wheels.

    This is another thing about SRAM and that XD driver, the cassettes derailleurs are so expensive compared to Shimano stuff. I realize its new technology(cost is expensive right now) but I dont need the new tech right now.

    So I thought about going with frame and fork route.......$2800 for both, which is almost the price of the NX build.

    So sell my bike and buy the GX build, or buy the frame and fork and sell my frame and use my parts, or buy the NX and have two bikes?

  196. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by cunningstunts View Post
    not a huge Sram fan either. i would be ordering frame and shock options on one of the new bikes if i go that route.
    Yup. For my money an XT 11sp gruppo can be picked up pretty cheaply now, it's good "working class" stuff and great bang-for-buck, I'd rather buy the frame/fork and spend the extra money on wheels. Don't need a 12-speed cassette with a 50t cog that's going to require a second mortgage when it needs to be replaced.

  197. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by David R View Post
    Yup. For my money an XT 11sp gruppo can be picked up pretty cheaply now, it's good "working class" stuff and great bang-for-buck, I'd rather buy the frame/fork and spend the extra money on wheels. Don't need a 12-speed cassette with a 50t cog that's going to require a second mortgage when it needs to be replaced.
    This ^

  198. #198
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    The NX cuts to many corners, specifically with suspension. The GX is the sweet spot for me.
    Binary Transition Bikes Demon Dirt

  199. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by ruppguts View Post
    The NX cuts to many corners, specifically with suspension. The GX is the sweet spot for me.
    Totally agreed.

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  200. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by David R View Post
    Yup. For my money an XT 11sp gruppo can be picked up pretty cheaply now, it's good "working class" stuff and great bang-for-buck, I'd rather buy the frame/fork and spend the extra money on wheels. Don't need a 12-speed cassette with a 50t cog that's going to require a second mortgage when it needs to be replaced.
    A GX 11spd set up is marginally more expensive if you shop around but IME better quality than current XT. Agreed GX eagle (or any eagle) gets too $tratosphere for me. Hope that E13's 9-46 cassette drops in price over coming year, that cassette pretty much cancels the need or usefulness of 12spd options.

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