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Thread: Smuggler

  1. #1001
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    Quote Originally Posted by pdibsie View Post
    I'm close to purchasing a 2019 Smuggler XO1 build and am dying to hear more reviews on them! Specifically how the fork and shock feel, and if any significant upgrades are needed (i.e. wheels). Also is anybody putting any frame protection/ clear tape on the frames?
    I've had mine about 6 months and 1000 miles or so, here is my take on it:

    Pros:
    • Pretty - The frames look really nice
    • Seems durable - Unlike previous Transition bikes, the finish is holding up well. The rest of the bike seems to be holding up fairly well despite being under a heavier rider and on pretty difficult terrain several times a week
    • Stable - The bike is super stable at speed
    • Switchbacks - The bike handles switchbacks, both up and down, really well.
    • STA - I really appreciate the steeper seat tube angle, it puts you in a much more efficient position than the previous versions did and I feel like it handles everything climbing better, as a result
    • Suspension - The linkage seems on part what I expect on a 120mm trailbike - It's fairly soft off the top and pretty progressive, while still being really supportive.
    • Responsive - The bike is fairly responsive, which is nice, but it also remains planted when it needs to. That said, it can be a little harsher than something with more travel and I definitely find bottom fairly often, but I'd prefer it to a more aggressive bike like the Sentinel that is less responsive.
    • Transition support - They are an awesome company to deal with, the people that work there really are great.


    The "bothers me a little bit, but not a huge deal":
    • Internal cable routing - The previous versions of Transition's carbon frames used tubes, this bike does not. They include a silencing kit for you, but I really wish the cable routing was easier to work with. The chainstay is real annoying to route through, but it's a one time thing.
    • Chainguide - If you run a chainguide, your rear shifter cable will get caught behind it and rub on the rear pivot, most likely. I think some have worked around this (see earlier posts), I couldn't and just went to a straight bash guard.
    • Servicing - Unlike some other bikes I've owned, servicing the Transition frames is a bit more work, especially compared to something like VPP. Not a huge deal, but something to consider. I wouldn't say they are more or less work than any other Horst bike, though. The pivots and bearings also seem to pick up and hold onto dirt more than with other bikes I've seen, not sure what this means for bearing or bike life.


    The bad:
    • Tire clearance - The tire clearance is bullshit. You can see my earlier post, but it's insanely tight on the seat stay arch. I feel like in this day and age, not being able to easily clear a 2.4 DHRII with mud clearance is really bad. My seatstay arch looks scratched to crap despite having tape on it, which has regularly been chewed through. I run a 2.3 Aggressor and I honestly don't know how long it's gonna be before I start seeing debris eating into the carbon on the seatstay arch (it's already past the finish).
    • The rear shock - The DPS is not really suited to this bike, I feel like it should have a piggyback shock like every other mid travel trailbike does. The tune was way too soft for me and I found myself harshly bottoming it out more than I'd like. Unfortunately, some frame sizes can't handle a piggyback, so that's something to consider


    I've tried several shocks on mine, the DVO Topaz worked well but I personally found it was hard to get a tune that allowed me to reach full travel. Even when I thought I had bottomed out, I was still 2-3mm or so from full travel. Aside from that, it felt pretty good and is a decent option IMO.

    I now run a DBCoil IL, which I'm still working on, but I like the way it feels so far. I feel like I hit bottom a little more than with the Topaz, but it tracks better and has a bit more damping when I do.

    On forks, mine came with a Fox 34, which I don't really think is a good choice. The 36 on the 2019s is a much better option, I'd opt for the GRIP2. You also now have the choice of getting a DVO Diamond or MRP Ribbon at reduced offsets.

    I always tape the downtube and chainstays, the chainstay protector on the drive side pretty much does everything you need there, so I just taped the non-drive side chainstay. I'd also tape the headbadge to prevent rubbing. The rest of the frame seems to hold up fairly well.

  2. #1002
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    Quote Originally Posted by pdibsie View Post
    ...Specifically how the fork and shock feel, and if any significant upgrades are needed (i.e. wheels). Also is anybody putting any frame protection/ clear tape on the frames?

    The only other bike I'm currently considering is the Yeti SB130.
    I'm in the same boat. Looking at the SB130 vs a custom built Smuggler. The upgrade I'm most interested in is: shock.

    Does a DPX2 improve it much? How about a coil? During a demo, the climbing was sluggish compared to SB4.5.

    But a fully custom Smugg will still save a couple hundred compared to XO1 Turq build.

  3. #1003
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    I'm loving mine (2018). I'm probably not sensitive enough to tell shock differences and the '19s have the Fox 36 vs my 34, but I haven't had any complaints about the 34. The 36 is, by most accounts, a very good upgrade.

    I didn't put tape on the frame. Bikes get chipped and scratched. Mine has a few after a summer's worth of riding. Rear seat stay is the worst and, really, my only complaint about this bike. They should have opened it up a bit (wider and "longer") to give some more tire clearance in that space.

    I will eventually put carbon wheels on the bike, because I've had them in the past and really liked them. Does it need it? Nah. No issues with the stock wheels (the 19 has different hubs, too, which are supposed to be more trouble free. I haven't had any hub issues so far, though.), but the lower weight and increased stiffness were things I could tell on my last bike with carbon hoops. I'll also upgrade to the Project 321 hubs (rear, at least) because I want a quiet hub. Again, these are "want" upgrades, not "need". I can't really think of any upgrades that are "needed" for this bike. It's a great bike out of the box!

  4. #1004
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    I have about 5 rides so far on my 2019 X01 Smuggler. My last bike was a V2 5010 Santa Cruz. So far the smuggler feels very good. Maybe a touch slower on the climbs but much more comfortable climbing position. Where this bike shines is going down hill. The rear feels like it floats over everything and the 36 up front feels amazing. I am having a lot of fun on this bike so far. I will upgrade to Carbon wheels and some quality hubs soon. I thought a DPX2 as well but so far the DPS feels really good to me.

  5. #1005
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    Don’t throw me out, I’d rather own a smuggler. But the GT sensor for a custom build makes some sense. It has nearly the same geo and kinematic. It’s obviously a smuggler copy.
    Pro:
    $1900 frame cost
    29x2.6 and 27x3.0 tire clearance
    Slightly more progressive LR
    Slightly lower anti squat and kickback
    Extremely stiff frame
    External cable routing
    Cons:
    Carbon sensor is heavier than a carbon smuggler
    Long seat tube
    Highish bb
    Shortish stack

  6. #1006
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    Quote Originally Posted by PurpleMtnSlayer View Post
    Don’t throw me out, I’d rather own a smuggler. But the GT sensor for a custom build makes some sense. It has nearly the same geo and kinematic. It’s obviously a smuggler copy.
    Except it uses a standard offset fork. So you'd have to do a custom build to get SBG like performance. Or at least replace the fork.

  7. #1007
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    Quote Originally Posted by pdibsie View Post
    I'm close to purchasing a 2019 Smuggler XO1 build and am dying to hear more reviews on them! Specifically how the fork and shock feel, and if any significant upgrades are needed (i.e. wheels). Also is anybody putting any frame protection/ clear tape on the frames?

    The only other bike I'm currently considering is the Yeti SB130. Similar beast, significantly different price point.
    I more or less agree with Adodero's comments.

    First thing I would mention is fit and handling, which are both fantastic. The steep seat angle is the way seat angles should have been long ago, it's just so much better. That and the longer reach make for a really comfortable and natural riding position both seated and standing. Coming from a 650b bike, this is the first 29er that felt good to me.

    Geometry is spot on for an aggressive trail bike. I'd take longer chainstays if it were an option, but that's a minor nitpick.

    It pedals very well.

    It's stiff. Nice and solid and has an almost DH bike feel to it in the downtube and bottom bracket area. It's beefy.

    It's heavy. Your carbon frame will help with that, but if you can afford to swap out lighter wheels/components over time it definitely won't hurt.

    Tire clearance doesn't bother me at all, but I prefer the precision of smaller tires.

    The DPS shock is junk and should be replaced as soon as you can. It's an insult to the bike and to customers when we pay as much for the Smuggler frame with the shit DPS as for the Sentinel frame with the DPX2.

    Cable routing is kinda stupid around the bb and chainstay area, but it could be worse. At least cables aren't dangling under the bb anymore.

    The chainstay needs more protective tape added both to prevent the chain tearing things up around the pivots and to keep it quiet.

    It's my favorite bike that I've owned, and I plan to ride it for a long time.

  8. #1008
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    Quote Originally Posted by amish_matt View Post
    ...The DPS shock is junk and should be replaced as soon as you can. It's an insult to the bike and to customers when we pay as much for the Smuggler frame with the shit DPS as for the Sentinel frame with the DPX2.
    Anyone try a DVO Topaz on a Smuggler? Thoughts?

  9. #1009
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    I upgraded to a topaz. It's the first "baller" shock I've owned, but the difference is substantial. Much softer off the top and alot more tuning options to increase ramp up at the end of the stroke. Increased climbing traction was a a total surprise. I agree that its ridiculous to pay the same price for a frame/build as the other bikes in the lineup that come with a dpx2.

  10. #1010
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    Great PNW fall day ride on the Smuggler yesterday.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Smuggler-smeditpa130027.jpg  


  11. #1011
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    Decided to go for it! Large Outlaw Orange XO1 Smuggle coming hopefully by the end of the week. Pics and report to follow!

  12. #1012
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    I'm not generally an orange fan, but I've seen it in person and that outlaw orange is awesome!

    (and getting a "pumpkin bike" in October? The halloween gods will have your back all year!)

  13. #1013
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    on Stans Flow S1 (ID29mm) a DHR2 2.4 WT and Assegai 2.5WT ( if your want to run an Assegai on the rear....) fit perfectly fine with good space to spare while the Minion DHF 2.5WT fits but rubs when under hard cornering loads

  14. #1014
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    Quote Originally Posted by smartyiak View Post
    Anyone try a DVO Topaz on a Smuggler? Thoughts?
    That's what I'm running and I'm very happy with it. It's a substantial upgrade over the DPS and really improves the ride.

    There may be other shocks that are even better, and I'm coil curious, but this is good enough that I don't really have a reason to look for anything else.

  15. #1015
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    Quote Originally Posted by haden View Post
    on Stans Flow S1 (ID29mm) a DHR2 2.4 WT and Assegai 2.5WT ( if your want to run an Assegai on the rear....) fit perfectly fine with good space to spare while the Minion DHF 2.5WT fits but rubs when under hard cornering loads
    Do you think the wider internal width of the rim lessens the height of the tire? My 2.3 DHR2 on a 26mm internal rim is pretty close to rubbing..

  16. #1016
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    Hello
    What crank arms lenght do you recommend for this bike ?
    I usually use 175 but...
    Thanks

  17. #1017
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    Quote Originally Posted by LUXO View Post
    Hello
    What crank arms lenght do you recommend for this bike ?
    I usually use 175 but...
    Thanks
    175 works great for me.

  18. #1018
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    Quote Originally Posted by amish_matt View Post
    175 works great for me.
    No issues with pedal strikes?

  19. #1019
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    Quote Originally Posted by haden View Post
    on Stans Flow S1 (ID29mm) a DHR2 2.4 WT and Assegai 2.5WT ( if your want to run an Assegai on the rear....) fit perfectly fine with good space to spare while the Minion DHF 2.5WT fits but rubs when under hard cornering loads
    Quote Originally Posted by AFWY View Post
    Do you think the wider internal width of the rim lessens the height of the tire? My 2.3 DHR2 on a 26mm internal rim is pretty close to rubbing..
    I run a Maxxis Aggressor 2.3 Exo on 30mm internal width @ 29psi (2018 Smuggler size XL).
    I canīt imagine fitting anything bigger. Not to mention mud clearance....
    The silver thing in the picture is an 5mm threaded rod. Itīs stuck between the bridge and the tire.
    (I have a 2.3 Specialized Butcher Grid, which seems a little bit smaller and which gives me something like 2-3mm more clearance. It is ok, but still quite little when riding in the mud.)

    I canīt imagine how a 2.4 Maxxis will have space to spare. Or my 2.3 Aggressor must be overly big or as big as the 2.4 DHR WT ....
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Smuggler-img_434.jpg  

    Last edited by MiWi; 3 Weeks Ago at 12:26 AM.

  20. #1020
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    Quote Originally Posted by skiahh View Post
    No issues with pedal strikes?
    No more than on any other bike I've owned in the last 10 years or so.

  21. #1021
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    Quote Originally Posted by LUXO View Post
    Hello
    What crank arms lenght do you recommend for this bike ?
    I usually use 175 but...
    Thanks
    170 came on my Large smuggler. They feel good and I have noticed less pedal strikes than my 5010 with 175.

  22. #1022
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    Quote Originally Posted by AFWY View Post
    170 came on my Large smuggler. They feel good and I have noticed less pedal strikes than my 5010 with 175.
    I'm considering both the Smuggler and the 5010. Which bike do you prefer? do you have the 2019 - 5010? If so what build? Plus?
    2017 Santa Cruz Tallboy 3

  23. #1023
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    Quote Originally Posted by jn24uk View Post
    I'm considering both the Smuggler and the 5010. Which bike do you prefer? do you have the 2019 - 5010? If so what build? Plus?
    I have a V2 5010 X01 CC Build. I went back and forth between the Smuggler and the V3 5010 for my new bike. I chose the Smuggler because I wanted to get back on a 29er. The 5010 is a lot of fun and is super playful and poppy. The rear suspension never felt plush and was a little harsh. The smuggler feels a lot better when the trail gets rough and rocky. There both great bikes but for my trails I prefer the smuggler.

  24. #1024
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    The rear suspension never felt plush and was a little harsh. (On the V2 or did you demo V3 5010?)
    2017 Santa Cruz Tallboy 3

  25. #1025
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    Quote Originally Posted by jn24uk View Post
    The rear suspension never felt plush and was a little harsh. (On the V2 or did you demo V3 5010?)
    This was on my V2. I have not ridden the V3 yet. Check out MTB YumYum on youtube. He has a video of him demoing the V3 and he used to own the V2.

  26. #1026
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    Quote Originally Posted by AFWY View Post
    This was on my V2. I have not ridden the V3 yet. Check out MTB YumYum on youtube. He has a video of him demoing the V3 and he used to own the V2.
    I saw that one, thanks. I tried out a V3 5010 aluminum, Plus bike. It was really heavy. I want to try an S build not plus because of the updated geo, but I prefer 29 as well. I was hoping for an updated Tallboy 130mm front and 120mm rear.
    2017 Santa Cruz Tallboy 3

  27. #1027
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiWi View Post
    I run a Maxxis Aggressor 2.3 Exo on 30mm internal width @ 29psi (2018 Smuggler size XL).
    I canīt imagine fitting anything bigger. Not to mention mud clearance....
    The silver thing in the picture is an 5mm threaded rod. Itīs stuck between the bridge and the tire.
    (I have a 2.3 Specialized Butcher Grid, which seems a little bit smaller and which gives me something like 2-3mm more clearance. It is ok, but still quite little when riding in the mud.)

    I canīt imagine how a 2.4 Maxxis will have space to spare. Or my 2.3 Aggressor must be overly big or as big as the 2.4 DHR WT ....
    I have a aggressor 2.5 put on and the space is pretty much the same

  28. #1028
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    2.4 and 2.5 Tyres in the Rear of Smuggler

    Pics below of DHRII 2.4WT + others on 29mm and 32mm ID rims

    First 2

    DHRII 2.4WT on ID29mm - tyre has 1 month measures 2.38@24psi

    next 2 pics
    DHRII 2.4WT on ID32mm - measures 2.37@24psi

    Then a new WTB Trail Boss 2.4 on ID32mm @65psi

    Last is E13 LG1 2.35 on a ID32mm

    Assegai 2.5WT fits fine on the ID32mm with space...its a boat anchor on paved ...if i didn't have to ride to the trail id run Assegai F and R

    E13 LG1 2.35 rubs easily under load.

    DHF 2.5WT on ID29mm rubs when loaded up BUT was a better combo with Assegai then the DHRII

    Current setup on ID32mm is Assegai 2.5WT F and DHR II 2.4 WT R

    About to try the WTB Vigilante 2.6F and Judge 2.4R on ID29mm on so ill post some pics.






    Smuggler-id32-e13-.jpgSmuggler-id29-2.4-wt-2.jpgSmuggler-id32-2.4wt.jpgSmuggler-id32-2.4-wt-2.jpgSmuggler-id32-trail-boss-2.4.jpgClick image for larger version. 

Name:	ID32 with E13 .jpg 
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ID:	1222686

  29. #1029
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    I think there is some confusion around the tire clearance issues.

    AFAIK, it only impacts the 2018+ carbon models. The alloy models have more clearance, including the prior generation. It also only seems to impact 29er tires, 27.5 plus seems to clear fine for some. So if you plan on running a 29x2.4 DHRII on a 2018 Carbon Smuggler, you will probably run into problems.

    I spoke with Transition about rub on the arch, they said I can tape it but it is not a big issue, apparently the area there is very thick and rub to the point of structural impact would have to be considerable.

  30. #1030
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    Hi yes it does lesson the height a little , def the tyre shape is more rounded with WT -theirs not a lot of difference in WT tyre shape between my ID29mm Flow and ID32mm Sentry rims.
    My Prev rims were 25mm ID BUT i never had rub issues with the 2.3 DHR2

    Back to back the DHR2 WT wins for me-you really can feel a more consistent bite when cornering hard/angled over-it hooks and holds its line.

  31. #1031
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    Hi Maxxis WT tyre profile gives a different shape - its worth trying a 2.4WT in the rear-i just posted some pics in the latest thread.

    WTB Trail Boss 2.4 fits really well on the ID29 and 32mm - worth a try to.

  32. #1032
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    Smuggler-capture.jpg

    Better photo of mine from last week in Derby, Tasmania.

    I came off an Evil Following (V1) and this bike is better in nearly everyway. Handles the rough stuff better and generally more versatile I think.

    Only thing that gets me is the rear tyre clearance... I'm running a 2.3 HRII and I got some scratches from the tyre already.

  33. #1033
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    Sweet looking build! Jealous of you riding Derby too, gotta get over there one day. That tyre clearance thing is the only thing that stopped me buying a Smuggler, the carbon is even tighter than the alloy eh?

  34. #1034
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    In a large frame size DVO TOPAZ gets up without problems? who has not changed the standard FOX FLOAT DPS?
    what other options are there for replacing the standard shock?

  35. #1035
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vortex070 View Post
    In a large frame size DVO TOPAZ gets up without problems? who has not changed the standard FOX FLOAT DPS?
    what other options are there for replacing the standard shock?
    Fox dpx2, rs super deluxe air, cc db il coil

  36. #1036
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    Quote Originally Posted by joro80 View Post
    Fox dpx2, rs super deluxe air, cc db il coil
    I looked on DVO’s website and there coil shock might be an option as well. Due to the reservoir size it might only work on a large or XL frame though. That could be a burly option

  37. #1037
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    Xpost from NorCal forskin: taco envy



    Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

  38. #1038
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    Quote Originally Posted by buddiesconfusion View Post
    I looked on DVO’s website and there coil shock might be an option as well. Due to the reservoir size it might only work on a large or XL frame though. That could be a burly option
    We forgot the new mrp hazzard

  39. #1039
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    Just got back from Sedona. My 2019 carbon smuggler felt very good on the trails out there. The suspension both front and rear felt plush but the bike also climbed the chunky stuff very well. Had a great time out there. Question on the rear shock top bolt. Should this bolt be greased or loc-tite?

  40. #1040
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    general question for new gen Smuggler owners: what did you ride previously and do you feel the S is the better bike? given it's travel figures is it as confident a descender as some say?

  41. #1041
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    Quote Originally Posted by cunningstunts View Post
    general question for new gen Smuggler owners: what did you ride previously and do you feel the S is the better bike? given it's travel figures is it as confident a descender as some say?
    went to SC hightower and do not regret buying a smuggler.

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