Trail Signs - More information needed- Mtbr.com
Results 1 to 5 of 5
  1. #1
    Unpredictable
    Reputation: Ridnparadise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    2,187

    Trail Signs - More information needed

    Firstly, apologies for the really crappy pics to follow. I don't have time or graphics skills to offer anything better. It was knocked up on Publisher for Mac.

    A disclaimer: the bottom left symbol does not represent paedophile walkers. I just couldn't find a simple kid riding a bike symbol so I chose the adult and child one. These signs are for MTB trails.

    I am not going to tell you what the signs exactly mean. I want you to tell me. These signs are positioned at the start of trails and are supposed to give you a more detailed idea of what is ahead. A QR code added to the sign would allow smartphone access to the trailmap etc. However, I can't see my phone well with contact lenses in and I don't take reading glasses with me (duh). Not everyone has a smartphone and not all places have cellular access, so I like a tangible sign.

    A detailed explanation of the symbols, which are based on the IMBA standard green circle, blue square, black and double black diamonds, would be on the trailhead sign, but if you guys don't find them intuitive, then no detailed explanation will make them work on the punters. There are 8 sets of information about the trail you are about to ride. They could be blocked, horizontally or vertically oriented to be fastened to tree trunks or formal signposts. 2 examples follow. Can you tell me what the trail ahead offers? And sorry again for the poor pics.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Trail Signs - More information needed-slide1.jpg  

    Trail Signs - More information needed-slide2.jpg  


  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    3,729
    Firstly i see what you're trying to do here, and i like the ideas.

    i hate the color contrast on your first example though, so you're really trying to kill people who may be willing to help on this forum.

    Beyond that, i think there are too many symbols. While they are simple and easy for me to understand, i'm coming from a background of actively building in mt. bike skills parks, so i'm not real certain if i can provide a good relay of if they are effective, and while thorough it still seems like alot of information, perhaps too much in some cases.

    So first of all Top left, trail name surrounded by it's trail rating color. Not a bad idea i suppose, but is it necessary to be a stand alone sign.

    Second left, stating direction, it's got clarity but i don't it's really necessary for a 2-way trail. A one way trail should have a notification at either end, one stating it to be a one way trail, with red warning colored Wrong Way signs at the end of the trail. This isn't so much for notification as it is for safety.

    Top right my opinion above is enough for me to bag on this symbol 2 fold. First it's hard to interpret, and second it just repeats the information of the first 2 symbols on the left side. My feedback regarding the second left sign remains for this sign.

    Third left, again like the top left, redundant as a stand alone sign. Most typical sign-post you have is trail name with distance. No need for these points to be separated.

    Bottom left, too vague. You don't want people hiking on a trail where people are coming off a jump right? Create signs for only those trails, that specify them as mountain bike specific trails.

    Second right, speed is subjective. No signs should be used for the variance of riders. Just can't see the usefulness or necessity for this sign.

    Third right, i'm assuming your speaking of wheel off the ground features, and you're again integrating the rating. Yah i think i understand why this is important and i'll elaborate below.

    Bottom right, a detail of features and their rated technical level. For safety if there is any feature that exceeds the trail rating then it should be individually listed as such. If the trail features do not have ride arounds, then the trail rating should be brought up to the highest level technical feature.

    So i think i've spoken to how we are approaching our rating system at Duthie Hill Mt. Bike Skills park, in other threads here. We took this rating system from what another park is doing. Using the 4 rating system of Green, Blue, Single black, Double black. But each trail will be categorized an XC trail or a FR trail. How XC is defined as a trail where the intention is for the wheels to stay mostly on the ground. FR is defined as a trail where the intention is for the wheels to many times leave the ground.

    By splitting the two you are provided with more freedom to provide a more accurate rating respectful for both disciplines. The symbol of a rider with wheels on the ground and a rider jumping are used to differentiate.

    i would offer you to think about this application. My suspicion is that you are attempting to clarify gray areas, my belief is that the rating system we have adopted may help in that regard.
    Last edited by Skookum; 11-21-2011 at 10:12 AM.
    .~...|\
    ...~.|.\
    ..~..|..\
    .~...|...\
    ~....|....\
    ...~.|.....\
    ....~|____\
    _____||_________
    .\....FAILBOAT..../

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation: HypNoTic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    345
    IMBA offer a trail classification guide with 4 differents difficulty levels (plus "white circle", which is the access road). Those classification are designed to be easy to apply and understand for everybody. Trail are always rated on technical level, never on cardio requirement. Many destinations adopted a 5-level system, adding the Red Square (between blue-intermediate and single-black-diamond). We see that pretty often in ski resort. Trail rating is also variable per region. A "blue" trail in Whistler is most likely a double diamond in the rest of the world. IMBA established a pretty good framework based on years of experience, you should give it a better look.

    Inter-Mountain offer a complete catalog of standardized trail signs for mountain bike. You should check it for the generic stuff. You can always adapt to your specific situation. Inter-Mtn.com : Premier supplier of Testing, Signs and Specialty Products to the Ski and Snow Resort Industry
    I build trails for moose & beaver
    PTBA member

  4. #4
    Unpredictable
    Reputation: Ridnparadise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    2,187
    You may be misinterpreting this. I grew up with the IMBA trail signs. Started skiing at 4!

    Difference is that when skiing if you hit a trail beyond your capability, there is usually the option to stop, traverse and escape. That option is not available on a bike trail.

    Thinking from the point of view of a land manager (which I am not) and considering liability, provision of information and user experience issues, all I was asking was if you could interpret what sort of a trail these signs were describing? I was not getting into a political argument about IMBA versus other sign standards, just picturing myself as a rider in a trail network unknown to me (having been caught out before, this is me and lots of other riders as far as I can tell).

    These are not real signs, just a concept for your consideration.

    Clearly, if the signs make one think about anything other than what the trail has to offer, then they won't work and the exercise was a waste of time.

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation: HypNoTic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    345
    Quote Originally Posted by Ridnparadise View Post
    Difference is that when skiing if you hit a trail beyond your capability, there is usually the option to stop, traverse and escape. That option is not available on a bike trail.
    If the trail is properly designed with filters/qualifyer at the very beginning, you actually have the opportunity to turn around within the first hundred meter.

    My point was that there are already a bunch of standardized signs that exist for ALL the concept you proposed. Sign makers offer close to 60 bike-specific signs. You should also check with your local race federation as they might have specific requirement for technical elements (1-2-3 arrow down, sharp turn, drop, etc) and sign size/placement. You didn't waste your time. I'm only adding that you should check out the complete offering before reinventing the wheel
    I build trails for moose & beaver
    PTBA member

Similar Threads

  1. Garmin 705 map information needed
    By tcook02 in forum GPS, HRM and Bike Computer
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 11-19-2009, 03:54 AM
  2. Information needed on pedals
    By staretoolong in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 07-08-2009, 07:40 AM
  3. Radar Trail Signs Photo needed
    By CU-Murph in forum California - Norcal
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 06-12-2007, 04:29 PM
  4. Yeti DH9 Information Needed
    By bpatterson6 in forum Downhill - Freeride
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 05-02-2006, 08:52 PM
  5. Old Heckler Information Needed
    By robsetsfire in forum Santa Cruz
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 09-01-2005, 09:26 PM

Members who have read this thread: 0

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2020 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.