Ruined trails w/pics- Mtbr.com
Results 1 to 33 of 33
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation: LarryFahn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    2,150

    Ruined trails w/pics

    This is Merli-Sarnoski county park. The comissioners decided to do "selective timbering". I'm going to try to post some pics of the devistation. They claimed that they were cutting 6 to 10 trees per acre and that the skid steerer would leave only a path 10-15 feet wide. The park manager (who is not there anymore) Rick Peters said that they would bring up the juivniles doing time to clean up the trails...There are no more trails where the timbering happened. The red diamonds in the pics used to be a trail.

    The red diamond marks what used to be a trail somewhere.

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation: LarryFahn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    2,150

    More pics

    Another part of our trail.

    Neil looking for the old trails. He's 6'-2". The bike scales the size of the mess.

    THIS PIC SAYS IT ALL

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation: LititzDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    536

    Bummer

    This is a bummer, and I know what it feels like. We ride a Boy Scout Camp that began logging about two years ago. They did not selective cut, but put large fire breaks in. Some of them took out large portions of trails, and the worst part is that they had just put a permit system in that charged $50 a year. I got pi$$ed off, I contacted my IMBA rep (Joe Transue) and my local bike club (SAMB). The answer they gave me was simple, if you don't like it, try and change it. Sounds simple, but that's what I did. We (SAMBA) now have started a relationship with the scout camp, and are building new trails and have had the permit reduced to $25. Now this is not public land, unlike a state park, but they may be open to a relationship with bikers. If I can help let me know.
    Matt

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    678

    Trails

    Almost took a ride up last week, kinda glad we did not. And I thought we would damage the trails because of mud!!! This is a real bummer due to the amount of work that went into an exceptions trail system. Sorry to hear about the hard work you have in front of you.

    Bob W.

  5. #5
    Got A Lust for Life...
    Reputation: indyfab25's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    2,968
    Clean it up and make the trails again. Screw them man. You could make a trail right over that stump. Don't wait. Get out there and do it.
    I am immune to your disdain.

  6. #6
    Papa T
    Reputation: Numb Bum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    272
    The same thing happend to our trail here in Flagler County Florida at Graham Swamp. We lost 3 miles of trail due to timber harvesting. I estimate they took 70-80% of the pine trees out. To make a long story short, some friends and I are forming a bike club and volunteering our time to rebuild the trails. The county and land owner are pleased with this. The best thing though is that now we can use better lines through the hills than we had before because of the undergrowth being totally removed. The bad thing is that the soil is mostly sand, so we will eventually get some limestone in to help with worst spots. It will just take time then it should be better than ever.

    Good luck!!

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    3,557
    Well the reversed happen in Cuyamaca Rancho State Park. They lost the forest because they were trying to save the trees. You want me to send you pics of the fires 100 percent tree kill in large swaths of the park?????
    I wish they would have logged (properly that is) because we still might have those beautiful stands of cedars and sugar pines that were totally wiped out.
    Wait till they are done and give it a couple years and see what it looks like. Either logging or a huge fire will do the job. You decide.

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation: LarryFahn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    2,150
    Here, We're really not too concerned about a fire cause the park seems to stay wet for a couple days after it rains. Some bikers don't like how the park "never dries". It's usually damp, which keeps the moisture on the trails. There's a couple areas where it's always wet, but we work around it by puting in new singletrack that goes around the mess (from quads) instead of creating a bigger mess. If there would be a chance of a fire, it will be now. Without the canvas to keep the moisture in and piles of brush all over the ground...
    The park officials (Rick Peters and Ann Whitbeck) said whatever we wanted to hear at the park meeting. They claimed it wouldn't be as bad as we thought. Well, we found out from an insider (works for the DCNR) that the park employees are pissed off about the devistation of the park too. They want to attract people to a "park". Most people think of a park as natural, not timbered with junk all over the place.
    We have a meeting tomorrow with our State Legislator about it and it happens that he's part of the Environmental Resources and Energy (Subcommittee Chairman on Parks and Forests). So, being this is right in his back yard...
    One thing I have to say about the pics is that they don't do the park justice. Until you stand there and turn your body as you're surrounded with brush 360*, trying to figure out were the trails were... Finding one of the old trail markers and finding the trail. You can't even figure out what side of the tree the trail was on. You look around for a couple seconds and you might see another diamond 200 feet away. You can't visualize how to get from here-to-there. You can't crawl over or around the brush. Instead, you go to the access road to walk around the mess and piles and trees they cut and left there. When you get to the diamond, you still can't fathom the destruction.
    The whole valley (about 45 miles long) is over-developed. Approx. 45 long, 2.5 miles wide is 110 square miles... That's 70,400 acres of over-development! The back side of the park has an old stripmine that was an eye sore for Carbondale for years. They took out the old, rusty machines about 10-15 years ago and planted some sort of high grass or something. The park is all that's on the inside of the Northeastern valley that we can look forward to preserving, not timbering. LarryFahn
    Last edited by LarryFahn; 07-03-2006 at 01:59 PM.

  9. #9
    Builder of Trails
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    797
    Do they plan to haul the cut trees out? If not, I'd voice my concern, which you're doing, and then start rebuilding the trail. Maybe even apply for an RTP grant to build new trails. You can create a completely new trail system with log rides, etc. Yeah, it takes a lot of time to do that, but would you rather the Park Manager hire someone to rebuild them? Chancdes are good that they'd use a powewrful machine with an operator who doesn't know how to build trail, and you'd end up with roads.

    Good uck with it all.

    Dewayne

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation: LarryFahn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    2,150
    What you see is how ther're leaving it.

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    58

    Rise from the Ashes

    An old Trail Care Crew report from 2000 you might enjoy - many of the trails are fully rebuilt now.

    Rise from the Ashes - Los Alamos, NM

    http://www.imba.com/tcc/2001/los_alamos.html

    In early May of 2000 the Cerro Grande wildland fire raged through the mountain communities of Los Alamos and Whiterock, New Mexico. The story made national and international news, mostly because the area is home to the Los Alamos National Laboratory, one of the United States government's biggest nuclear energy research and development facilities. Over 250 homes or structures were destroyed and 450 families were displaced. Both towns had to be evacuated as the fire engulfed 48,000 acres of forest and 90 miles of trails in the area.

    But like the mythical phoenix bird rising from the ashes, the communities of Los Alamos and Whiterock came together to begin the long process of restoring their homes, and their trails. A newly-formed multi-agency volunteer task force immediately took steps toward watershed protection, followed by education, public information, trail restoration and reforestation. Finally, resource inventory and monitoring were also undertaken. People who had just lost their homes were volunteering any time they had to restoring the forest.

    The task force, led by trail enthusiast Craig Martin, has linked several agencies together including Los Alamos County, the U.S. Geological Survey, the U.S. Forest Service, the National Park Service and many other community members. Trail users such as the local mountain bike club, the Los Alamos Tuff Riders have played an exceptional role. Gabriela Lopez Escobedo, President of the Tuff Riders has led thousands of club volunteer hours on the trails in the forest. She also saw a great opportunity to invite the Subaru/IMBA Trail Care Crew to Los Alamos for a trail building clinic.

    Joey Klein and Nichole Williams of the Trail Care Crew taught a 3-day workshop focusing on sustainable trail design, construction and maintenance. After the fire, any bad sections of trail were obliterated by the large scale erosion. The fire also enabled the Crew to see where it would be better to reroute sections of trail in many cases.

    The TCC presented a slideshow to the public lands managers who will steer the restoration of the Los Alamos trails. Miles Standish of the Sante Fe National Forest and Glenn Ryan of Bandelier National Monument shared many of their trail experiences, working closely with the TCC. Over 70 volunteers attended the workshop and trail building clinic. On the final day, nearly half a mile of damaged trail tread was restored on the Cabra Trail. Using rock techniques to "armor" sensitive tread sections, Rick Kelly of the Tuff Riders led trail crews experimenting with the process.

    The timing of the TCC visit was perfect as it helped everyone to envision a better trail system for the forest surrounding Los Alamos. Like the phoenix rising from the ashes, Miles Standish sees the aftermath of the disastrous Cerro Grande fire as an opportunity to leave behind a trail legacy that will protect the forest and bring people closer to nature.

  12. #12
    They turned me loose
    Reputation: TheDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    384

  13. #13
    I'm on fire.
    Reputation: Trigger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    304
    Nooooo, say it ain't so! Some of us Upstate NYers head to Merli a few times a year to hit the sweet trails there - what a treat. Really dissapointed to see what has happened. I'm not sure about the rest of our crew, but I know I would be game for helping with a fix up job at some point this summer. Post trail cleanup dates on our website when y'all get organized....
    Last edited by Trigger; 05-09-2006 at 02:02 PM.
    Sanity is the trademark of a weak mind.
    Cycle CNY

  14. #14
    Incredulous bastard
    Reputation: no one in particular's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    253
    So, what's the condition of Porcupine, Connex and Twister? Or has this work only been done on the main old loop?

    May I presume that Brother's Trail, Handlebar and such are untouch'd?

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation: LarryFahn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    2,150
    Porcupine ridge, Twister, Connex, and the twisty ending of the orange are gone. The part of the orange past the lake is still ridable, but it takes you to the mess with nowhere to go from there. That's about another 2 miles that are usless at this point. The begining of the orange trail is OK until the lake. After that, it's not worth riding anymore.
    Squeeze play, HR280, Handlebar, My Brothers Trail, Fox rocks, and Blade are OK so far. We figure 20-30 percent is gone and 2 miles of the orange are usless.
    For those unfamiliar with Merli:
    It's 840 acres of land that the (now dysfunct) Lackawanna Bike Club (LBC) built singletrack on in the mid to late 90's. The "Orange trail" is the main loop that's about 7-8 miles long. The LBC built loops off the Orange over the years that used up a lot of the land that's crunched together. Usually, if you do a side loop, you end up 20-50 yards from where you entered 2 miles ago. The trails are tight, twisty, East coast singletrack! If you dream of the Technical stuff with a climb/decend type of feel, this is your place to ride! We need to STOP the harvesting all together. Please sign this petition. Give them the info of where you're from and how far you travel to get here ONLY if you HAVE RIDDEN HERE!!! If you HAVEN'T RIDDEN HERE, please give them your opinion on ruining the trails (possibly mountain biking diminishing in places that have been timbered). Here's the petition, http://www.petitiononline.com/100041/petition.html Thanks, Fahn
    Last edited by LarryFahn; 10-14-2006 at 09:29 PM.

  16. #16

    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    829
    As uasual!


    I guess the trails that were there before Rt 81 were wrong also! This is BS! What is the fine if you or I cut 1 freekin tree there? They should be held responsible for reconstruction! I have to buy a 4 stroke motorcycle because so called 2 strokes pollute? What about the damage that big logger does? Where is the runoff going? Do they use biodegradable oil in the logging monster so when it leaks it's ok? You pay for that park mak'em fix it! Call everyonre you know! Some of the money should go towards repair and what is the time line for so said repair?

    FIX IT NOW! I wanna ride it!

  17. #17
    beer thief
    Reputation: radair's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    4,901
    If you have permission to rebuild, just get a crew out there and flag the old trails (they're still there, just hidden under slash). A couple chain saws and a bunch of people will make relatively quick work of this. And I agree with Indyfab, that stump should become a TTF.

    Been there, done that. More than once.

  18. #18

    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    829

    Let's organize trailwork party

    Hello:

    I see names here. Can we meet with the now park ranger first so we can formulate a plan to rebuild? Let's get the ball rolling before it starts growing. Do we need permission to do this? I am avaliable for workdays just need an advance notice of a day or so. Anyone interested please post here.

    Info below please contact me! I will start the roundup here in the Valley and bring people to fix it!

  19. #19

    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    29
    dam thats ashame that some workers dont care about the trees and trails.
    it sounds like all the care about is ok cut the marked trees and move onto the
    next group of trees before the end of the workday.
    i have volunteered the past two years on cleaning the bike trials if any fallen or cut trees were blocking the trials. last year we almost had a group that would check the trails every second week,
    but it fell through because we never had the same workdays off.
    i am volunteering again this year to keep the trails clean and clear of fallen trees.

    Quote Originally Posted by indyfab25
    Clean it up and make the trails again. Screw them man. You could make a trail right over that stump. Don't wait. Get out there and do it.
    i agree with this quote. because sure we can try to get the city, or comissioners, or council, or the park reps,
    or anyone else to clean it up. but then if they do and they make the trail all wrong,
    then we are back where we started being mad again.
    i say make a plan, volunteer our own time to clean up and make a trial for the other bikers, right over the stump!
    good luck people and keep ridin'

  20. #20

    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    829
    Hubbard:

    How about an update on the goings on at Merli?

  21. #21
    Log off and go ride!
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    1,691
    They could have written trail restoration into the timber sale contract. Then the purchaser would have to rebuild the trails as a condition of cutting the timber. Too bad they missed the opportunity.

    On the plus side, the forest sure looks healthier.

  22. #22
    3.14159265358979323846
    Reputation: velocipus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    2,846
    Quote Originally Posted by richwolf
    Well the reversed happen in Cuyamaca Rancho State Park. They lost the forest because they were trying to save the trees. You want me to send you pics of the fires 100 percent tree kill in large swaths of the park?????
    I wish they would have logged (properly that is) because we still might have those beautiful stands of cedars and sugar pines that were totally wiped out.
    Wait till they are done and give it a couple years and see what it looks like. Either logging or a huge fire will do the job. You decide.
    Welcome to natural processes.

  23. #23
    Log off and go ride!
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    1,691
    Quote Originally Posted by velocipus
    Welcome to natural processes.

    It was a human caused fire -- not a natural ignition.

    The forest was unnaturally dense from the lack of proper science-based management. Had the forest been managed right the fire would have caused very little mortality.

    Misguided environmentalists caused the forest death.

  24. #24
    Incredulous bastard
    Reputation: no one in particular's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    253
    Quote Originally Posted by LarryFahn
    Porcupine ridge, Twister, Connex, and the twisty ending of the orange are gone.
    Not by my observation. Porcupine is completely untouch'd. And Twister and Connex seem to be 80% intact. Yeah, the Old Main Loop leading to and away from them is gone, and there is not good way to get to them, but with a little work they would be ridable. For now...

    I haven't a clue what the future holds for them.

    Quote Originally Posted by indyfab25
    You could make a trail right over that stump.
    Right...
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by no one in particular; 10-13-2006 at 07:06 PM. Reason: Edited to fix my broken link

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    452

    Suggestions to rebuild logging ruined trails

    I am replying to an old post but I thought I would add some suggestions that might help someone using this forum for research or to get some new ideas.

    If the trails were turned into skid roads, the trails are most likely toast and reroutes are probably the only option. But if the trails are just covered by slash, they may still be in surprising good condition. Go out and mark the hidden trails with pin flags while memories are still fresh. Then organize to remove the slash.

    The local land manager probably didn't make the decision to do the logging but they are the ones that have been taking all of the heat for it. They might be very open to helping reclaim the trails to show they are doing something to try to address the damage. Ask them if they can provide employees who are trained chain sawyers to help remove the slash. With the right volunteer support, a couple of chain saws can remove a lot of slash. It is preferable that the land management agency be responsible for the chain sawing. They have the right training, the right safety equipment and the right insurance.

    Organize crews to support each sawyer. Have a couple of people clear the small slash and saw tree limbs along the trail ahead of the sawyer. They should use hand saws to remove limbs from the larger logs that will need to be chain sawed. This will remove tripping hazards and allow the sawyer to focus on the larger pieces. Have a couple of people follow behind the sawyer removing the cut logs. Instruct the sawyer to cut the logs into very moveable pieces, even if it takes a couple of extra cuts. This will make the removal go faster and reduce the chance of injury. Follow up with a couple of crew members who will use McLeods to rake away the small sticks and scrape the trail smooth.

    The positive aspect of logging is that is may allow a lot of flexiabilty for trail reroutes. The look of the woods will have changed so much that objections about the appearance of new trails may not even be raised. It is also unlikely anyone will make objections on environmental grounds.

  26. #26
    banned
    Reputation: 29Colossus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    4,137
    You didn't skid on those trails did you? Skidding "damages" the trail, so avoid it at all costs... I mean, if you destroy the trail skidding, what would the SKID STEER!!! have to destroy? Someone needs to be shot.

    I'm sorry for your loss. Build the trail up and ride it with your new perspective. Good luck. Next time it will be a new road for a new development... afterall, there is almost a 4 lane highway there now.

  27. #27

    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    829
    Hello:

    Great ideas!

    I highly doubt any of that will work here! The park is ruined and it seems no one cares. Because of all the dead fall new growth has begun over the summer months and the old trails have dissappeared. Removing all the cuttings to be processed as sawdust is just not worth the effort. As you can see from other posts this was a war of words between a few posters on here! I offered to personally bring friends and clean it up! I guess we are not allowed to do so, because there was never any call backs to me or my friends form any park people. You can still ride areas of the park but, there are many more places to ride.

  28. #28
    mtbr member
    Reputation: hanshananigan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    633
    Well, if there is only mild interest in restoration, I guess it's best to focus efforts on preservation, upkeep, and growth on the other trails that are in the area.

    Otherwise, IMBA offers lots of ideas to get land managers to the table. And, there is also the media... Either way seems to require Herculean effort.

    Good luck!
    Hi!
    Location: Richmond, VA
    Style: Mid-Atlantic roots, rocks, & poison ivy

  29. #29
    mtbr member
    Reputation: LarryFahn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    2,150
    Sorry I haven't gotten back in a while guys. The old trail is in the process of being rerouted through riders at Hubbard bike club and the Lackawanna bike club. The existing trails are GPS'd and were turned into the Park Archetect. The new trail is being refigured to include some new stuff. The biggest problem is you can't just walk in with a chainsaw and cut whatever the hell you feel like as some people assume. All of the new stuff needs to go through the Archetect. It needs to avoid certain sections of the woods. We're working with the park and architect to bring in the cutting crew to clean up the mess as Tom (archetect) is really pressing to get the trails recut so it doesn't stop anyone from going to the park. This prolly won't happen till next spring of course. The un-official news...
    A member of Hubbard and the Fell mtn steering committee talked (due to his position we'll call X) to Mr. Cordaro (County commissoner in charge of this mess). Cordaro asked X how the bikers were doing. X told him that we're hanging in there, but didn't like what was being done. X gave Cordaro a bunch of papers in the past of the trail review from this site, an online petition with close to 500 sigs, a study done by a high profile professor from the University of Scranton, and a couple of other papers that point out the impact of timbering. About 5 minutes into his speech, Cordaro told X to stop. Cordaro said that he wants to stop the timbering! The whole idea of timbering is to show that they want to make improvements to the park and to do that they need to file for a grant. They can't get a grant by just applying for it. They need to show that they're taking steps forward. They did it by using a "renewable recource". As you and I both know, they took all the money trees and left the mess and dead fall behind and it will take years for those trees to grow back. Being that both X and myself are on the steering comittee (and other Hubbard and LBC members) I feel it's a push/pull situation. You argue and make a huge deal out of it and see how far you can take it. Though 90 acres were destroyed, I think we may have been loud enough that we were heard. Though it's good news, none of us are too hyped up about this knowing our local govt. When we get it in writing and signed by Mr. Cordaro himself, then we'll know for sure. We are being heard though and that's an important thing. Special thanks to IMBA for leading us in the right dirrection so far. Like everything in the american govt., it takes time. But I hope by next summer the trails will be back in full swing. I havent heard anything as to when the next meeting is yet, but more discussions will continue. Thanks for reading and any info, tips or personal stories about saving your trails are always appreciated. Fahn
    Hubbard Bike Club

  30. #30
    mtbr member
    Reputation: LarryFahn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    2,150
    We've been in the papers several times. Once was the Sunday times front page in the lacal section titled "Birth of a Protest". It had a pic of me with my bike right where the butchering took place. About a week later, Neil was in the "Letter to the Editor" section with a backup letter about the article and what they (Comissioners and forester) said as to what we said. We've had prolly about 4-6 prints in the paper. Considering how small of a user group we are and how rarely we're recognized, I think we're doing our best with what we have. Fahn.
    Hubbard Bike Club

  31. #31
    mtbr member
    Reputation: LarryFahn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    2,150
    As far as the "The park is ruined" and "all the old trails have dissapeared"... Apparently you haven't ridden there all year! The only part "grown in" is the section where the timbering happened. The other side with the majority of trails is in full swing. Fahn
    Hubbard Bike Club

  32. #32
    Incredulous bastard
    Reputation: no one in particular's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    253
    Thanks for the update, LarryFahn.

    I came down for a ride on 10.14. It was only my second ride there this year, but the park is far from ruin'd. Everything up to and past Blade is in fine shape. By doing just a bit of backtracking I was able to put together a 17.5 mile ride. That's a pretty huge ride for Merli, and now I have a good reason to do HR280. I didn't even try to climb up the hill and take a look at the other trails this time though.

    I'm looking forward to being able to put the whole thing together again next year. It's a right long ways to go to do trail work, but if you post the work dates there's a fair chance that some of us non-locals (especially us Ithaca folks) would be willing and available to help out. Especially if we have a lot of notice. And extra especially if it's a half-day work/ride thing.

    Let us know!
    __________________

  33. #33
    mtbr member
    Reputation: LarryFahn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    2,150
    Right! The trails on the North side are still mint! The other ones past the lake are the troubled ones. Twist Connex and the Orange trail are the ones that are aviodable. The Orange and Connex are the butchered ones. We do have the intent on repairing the old system as I stated... But that will prolly be next spring. Fahn
    Hubbard Bike Club

Members who have read this thread: 0

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2020 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.