• 06-06-2012
    zerodish
    Pedestrians rights to use interstates and public roads through state parks.
    I going to run this up the flagpole to see who shoots at it. On January 31 1851
    the house of Representatives defined all roads in the Oregon territories as
    public land. The law also states it is the responsibility of the county to
    survey these roads. This worked out so well that in August 4 1852 the law was
    applied to all roads in the united states in act of congress No 206. In the homestead act of
    1862 the homesteader only had to describe the location of the homestead the
    location of the roads were already known. It also states all private property
    shall be accessible by public roads and there shall be no landlocked private
    property. Title 43 chapter 1063 no person shall prevent or obstruct free passage
    through public land. Federal highway act 1921 no tolls of any kind shall be
    charged on roads governed in this statute. Any Indian trail or wagon road in
    common use shall be defined as public land these roads cannot be closed nor can
    tolls be charged for the use of these roads. I lost track of the location of
    this law it may have been the exact wording of the Oregon territories law
    however it seems to me the law was passed in 1876. The law also specifies old
    roads can be closed only after a new road is built nearby of equal or better
    quality these are then defined as public land. There are two problems here
    interstates were built over existing roads and pedestrians are being barred from
    these roads. Departments of transportation are closing existing roads to save
    money and the border patrol is closing existing roads to force people through
    border patrol checkpoints. National parks are charging tolls to pass through
    them. Lassen volcanic national park has toll booths across the roads and these
    are not visible until you are several miles up the road there is a provision in
    the law to sell some of the park to private users I don't know if these exist.
    Death Valley has kiosks along the side of the roads stating the park is a fee
    area. Death Valley does have private property. Notice the above laws do not
    apply to Indian reservations I will happily pay to use Death Valley roads when
    they are returned to the Shoshone nation. You can make an argument that barring
    pedestrians from any interstate is illegal it will depend on the wording of the
    law however I will not make this argument only that barring pedestrians from
    interstates created over existing roads is illegal for example interstate 5
    exists over highway 99 at the California border and it is marked as highway 99.
    Interstate 25 exists over the Santa Fe trail at the New Mexico border and it is
    marked as such. It is also illegal for the federal government to sell to private owners any land that was seized under eminent domain this has happened at raton pass there are also provisions under the law to punish those who have mistakenly sold public land to private owners. NMDOT has been warned. You can also argue that closing roads that are snowed in are illegal I will make this argument however I believe they can be closed for
    automobiles. You can make the argument that border patrol checkpoints that are
    not on the border are illegal. You can argue that weigh stations are illegal.
    You can argue that all railroad access roads are public land. Navigable waters
    are also public land and access to these must be granted across highways and
    railroad tracks. Recent court cases brought against the Amish have ruled that
    preventing horses and wagons from using public roads are a violation of the
    religious freedom clause of the constitution. Prior court cases have ruled they
    do not have to use lights. In general these laws are not in the united states
    code. The laws that are the united states code are listed under public lands and
    railroads. In general the books that contain these laws are not available in
    state libraries or supreme court libraries that exist within the states and I'm
    not telling you where they are at to prevent their destruction by police who are
    liable for millions of false tickets and arrests under these laws. http://www.westbrookent.com/RS-2477-road-Law.pdf
  • 06-06-2012
    dnlwthrn
    Dude, what? Instead of copy and paste, try actually posting your bs... This clearly has nothing to do with trail building or MTB advocacy.
  • 06-06-2012
    formica
    Unreadable. Please do some editing for paragraph spacing, etc.
  • 06-06-2012
    AZ
    TL/DR, Cliffs notes please.
  • 06-06-2012
    Harold
    I recently read that it is permissible for bicycles to use the interstate shoulder in rural areas, especially when no other viable roads exist to connect point A to point B.

    interesting that the original post quotes very old laws that have likely been superceded. our lawbooks are full of old, unenforced laws that just haven't been removed.
  • 06-06-2012
    wildskycomet
    the general question is one I have been asking town officials to look into. What rights do the public have to the agency ROW when considering a bike path or pedestrian path on the grassy edge, often in space that homeowners have decided is their lawn. Can a town sanctioned body or group take it upon themselves to construct a path, with AOT permission of course, without getting into adjacent landowner permission, or extortion.
  • 06-06-2012
    Cat-man-do
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by NateHawk View Post
    I recently read that it is permissible for bicycles to use the interstate shoulder in rural areas, especially when no other viable roads exist to connect point A to point B.

    interesting that the original post quotes very old laws that have likely been superceded. our lawbooks are full of old, unenforced laws that just haven't been removed.

    Agree with what NateHawk said. I'm sure there are lots of obscure laws written many moons ago. I don't know who but someone once said, "Laws were made to be broken". Laws are also made to be redefined and changed anytime the lawmakers wish. As I see it no need to get all high and mighty about old law. I'm sure much of it has been changed and redefined to suit modern times. Case in point...you don't see many people nowadays trying to stake a claim on public land and call it homesteading. Now if I'm wrong about that please let me know.
  • 06-06-2012
    zerodish
    This one is for the lawyers and it does fit here under advocacy. I only care about cycling down the road however this applies to all public land which includes abandoned railways. I will make it clear you have an absolute right to use the roads the police cannot bar you from any road or force you to ride on the sidewalk or impose a curfew. When automobiles came in to existence laws were passed to keep them off the roads since they spooked the horses. I do want to clear up one point no one has the right to make a law in conflict with federal law this includes the department of transportation.
  • 08-02-2012
    zerodish
    The frontage roads on interstate 94 in North Dakota are permanently closed and under water at points. This was caused by the construction of the interstate displacing the wetlands. The roads are not being maintained to former standards and have been covered with gravel. Actually ND and the railroads has the right to sue the department of transportation to have these roads fixed. ND also has a one billion dollar surplus they can afford to fix these roads. Cycling on the interstates is no problem and I recommend it.
  • 09-29-2012
    zerodish
    I'm moving highway 75 in Omaha to the top of the list because it probably has already resulted in the deaths on innocent people. Highway 75 is not an interstate yet pedestrian traffic is banned on this road through Omaha and Bellevue. No reasonable person would think pedestrians are not allowed on this road since pedestrians are allowed elsewhere including South Dakota and Kansas. NDOT is improving the road south of Bellevue and the evidence is they also plan to bar pedestrians from this portion of the road. NDOT is also building a bridge across the river to interstate 29 which will produce less traffic on the road. I talked to the Cass county district attorney he said he had no intention to complying with the law until I could prove it existed he also refused to produce laws stating the territorial laws have been overturned.
  • 10-03-2012
    wildskycomet
    No, you're missing the intent of the question, and it does go to the isue of trail building & advocacy...(not native american soveriency or interstates, or even parks). When a trail building group, municipal, or otherwise, is confronted with an area that can only be connected using the state or local AOT's right of way, usually an area alongside the traveled roadway, currently adopted by the abutting landowner and mowed and maintained as if they owned it, what rights do the public have to ride or walk on that edge as it extends into the area the property owner is using. If the intent is to construct some alternative ribbon for use as walking or riding, can the property owner refuse to grant permission to the individual group? Or can the group use the AOT level of permission or rights construct the alternative path and the landowner must agree as the servient owner? Yes it would be handy to obtain permission to create a route reasonably far from the road, however, certain conditions often dictate constructing something alongside and it would be handy to know that the AOT has the authority to decide, rather than an obstinate owner who prefers that folks don't use a portion of his front lawn, regardless of the fact that he doesn't sit on that prtion located within 25' of the centerline (or whatever the standard [town, county, state] ROW width is in that particular location).
  • 10-03-2012
    UncleTrail
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by wildskycomet View Post
    what rights do the public have to ride or walk on that edge as it extends into the area the property owner is using.

    It's called public right of way. It's an easement for public use granted to the governments who construct/maintain said roads. Public ROW's were created in.....

    "In 1866, Section 2477 of the Revised Statues of the United States provided: "The right of way for the construction of highways over public lands not reserved for public uses is hereby granted". It was also known as the Mining Act and the Canal Act. In 1885 an Act by the Colorado General Assembly gave the right to County Commissioners to declare any section line or township line on the public domain a public highway. On October 12, 1889, the Board of County Commissioners of Weld County declared all section and township lines on the public domain of the United States in Weld County to be public highways. This order was recorded at the Clerk and Recorders Office in Book 86 at page 273. With this order, 60 of road right of way, 30 on each side of the section or township line, came into existence as long as the land was still in the public domain as of October 12, 1889. Examples of lands not in the public domain are: "
    Railway sections, State School Sections (sections 16 & 36 here in CO, a section is one square mile), and Homestead sections.

    From here:
    Weld County: Department of Public Works

    For other roads not on section lines, ROW's are usually much wider than the roads that sit upon them. And roads may not be centered in the ROW. SO there is no measurement of ROW limit from the centerline of the road. You have to hire a surveyor to find out where public ROW ends.
  • 10-16-2012
    zerodish
    Got a real nasty state cop in Fayetteville Arkansas he chased me down for photographing an ADA violation 4.5.4 on highway 74B ADA Accessibility Guidelines he claimed I was on the interstate not true I was on highway 74 74B however there no signs on the interstate prohibiting pedestrians. Later in the day I photographed 20 state troopers actually walking on one of these violations they were directing traffic for a university sports game.