motorized and nonmotorized trails in the same planning area?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    motorized and nonmotorized trails in the same planning area?

    Does it work? I've got an advocacy issue where the planning area is bisected by a road and everything to the east is nonmotorized and everything to the west is motorized shared-use. The nonmotorized area is the subject of a intense and controversial trail planning with lots of heat coming from the environmental lobby who would like to see the advanced downhill, mostly directional bike trails closed.

    Part of the solution is trying to disperse some of the use west of the road in the nonmotorized zone where there are a lack of loop opportunites for the moto guys and a 60 mile social trail network utilized by bikers and motos alike. We stand to lose most of these trails anyway but buy-in on additional moto trails from the bike community will be hard and of course the moto guys don't want to lose out either.

    My goal is to plan and implement at least one directional mountain bike trail. It's going to be a hard road to get the USFS to accept this since the Management Plan is for the area to be motorized. The Sierra Club and Grand Canyon Trust don't want additional motorized trails either.

    The question I have, is where in the western US are there both motorized and nonmotorized trails in the same footprint or area. Do they cross? How is poaching by motos limited. Does simple signage work? Crested Butte and Sun Valley have both but the areas are largely separated right? I'm looking for case studies where it's worked or not worked. Thanks!

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    Pretty common in OR & WA. Infact a lot of the Trans-Cascadia stuff uses these zones. In Hood River Post Canyon is a very popular spot where they intersect every which way. Browns camp is another spot I ride often. Signage and Corral's keep the poaching to a minimum. I'd say it's more or less a non-issue. There is another spot in Washugal WA, Cold Creek, where there is more poaching. Imo it's because there isn't much Moto trail so naturally they poach.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    Pretty common in OR & WA. Infact a lot of the Trans-Cascadia stuff uses these zones. In Hood River Post Canyon is a very popular spot where they intersect every which way. Browns camp is another spot I ride often. Signage and Corral's keep the poaching to a minimum. I'd say it's more or less a non-issue. There is another spot in Washugal WA, Cold Creek, where there is more poaching. Imo it's because there isn't much Moto trail so naturally they poach.
    Cool, thanks. I could use links to planning documents if known. It's the land manager that I need to convince that this isn't a unique situation.

  4. #4
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    Corral Canyon, Cleveland National Forest. Motos and mountain bikers share trails. Obviously mountain bikers yield to motos. There are plenty of USFS staff at Descanso District that you can contact. Good luck with your project.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    How is poaching by motos limited. Does simple signage work?
    For small locations, with lots of people to do the watching out for the land managers. If not, you need something more.

    Pages 44-46: https://www.mbie.govt.nz/assets/new-...sign-guide.pdf

    At our proposed trail that crosses motorized roads, we are just using moveable bar narrowing gates. I have details for that.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boulder Pilot View Post
    Corral Canyon, Cleveland National Forest. Motos and mountain bikers share trails. Obviously mountain bikers yield to motos. There are plenty of USFS staff at Descanso District that you can contact. Good luck with your project.
    Yeah, it's not about shared use in this case. The idea is for a directional mtb trail in the middle of an area managed for motorized use.


    Quote Originally Posted by CycleKrieg View Post
    For small locations, with lots of people to do the watching out for the land managers. If not, you need something more.

    Pages 44-46: https://www.mbie.govt.nz/assets/new-...sign-guide.pdf

    At our proposed trail that crosses motorized roads, we are just using moveable bar narrowing gates. I have details for that.
    That's a good idea. The top would start from a motorized trail.

    Thanks for the replies.

  7. #7
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    More from Oregon...

    Near Bend there is the Edison OHV area that overlaps with Edison-Lava trail, open in part to OHVs and MTBs both, and MTBs alone in other areas. Not much evidence of poaching by motos on non-OHV trails.

    Also in Oakridge (aka Middle Fork district of the Willamette NF) there are many trails open to moto, interspersed among those that are not. Data online about which is which is sparse but signs on the ground appear to be adhered-to. Many MTB trail builder volunteers use dirt bikes for trail building where permitted.

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    There's a area called Hartman Rocks outside of Gunnison, CO that has extensive moto and multiuse/mtb trails designated trails. I don't know much about the specifics of the mgmt of the area, but for all the accounts I've hear, everyone seems to get along.
    I would advise not taking my advice.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by watermonkey View Post
    There's a area called Hartman Rocks outside of Gunnison, CO that has extensive moto and multiuse/mtb trails designated trails. I don't know much about the specifics of the mgmt of the area, but for all the accounts I've hear, everyone seems to get along.
    Yep, I've ridden there but in 1995 or so. That's a good example but similar to Moab on BLM land. I'm dealing with the USFS and additional red tape. Specifically, in the management plan the area is specified to be motorized.

    I need to look harder at Oakridge since they just went through a similar River to Trails Assistance Program grant through the national park service. But it's all for nonmotorized singletrack. https://www.ci.oakridge.or.us/sites/...rails_plan.pdf

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    I just rode near Tahoe (Sawtooth and Big Chief Trails outside Truckee) where the moto trails and non-moto trails crisscrossed. Non-moto trails seemed pretty bike-specific and I didnít see any hikers or equestrians. Signage was good at the intersections and there would then be a ďNo MotoĒ graphic sign about 100í in past the intersection on the bike route. we saw and heard a few motorized bikes on the moto section, but none and no tracks on the pedal bike only sections (eBikes specifically not allowed either). Iím not a local so donít know the history, but Iím sure someone here shoukd know. Public land is Forest Service and the trails were developed by Truckee Trails truckeetrails.org Sweet trails by the way.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    Does it work? I've got an advocacy issue where the planning area is bisected by a road and everything to the east is nonmotorized and everything to the west is motorized shared-use. The nonmotorized area is the subject of a intense and controversial trail planning with lots of heat coming from the environmental lobby who would like to see the advanced downhill, mostly directional bike trails closed.

    Part of the solution is trying to disperse some of the use west of the road in the nonmotorized zone where there are a lack of loop opportunites for the moto guys and a 60 mile social trail network utilized by bikers and motos alike. We stand to lose most of these trails anyway but buy-in on additional moto trails from the bike community will be hard and of course the moto guys don't want to lose out either.

    My goal is to plan and implement at least one directional mountain bike trail. It's going to be a hard road to get the USFS to accept this since the Management Plan is for the area to be motorized. The Sierra Club and Grand Canyon Trust don't want additional motorized trails either.

    The question I have, is where in the western US are there both motorized and nonmotorized trails in the same footprint or area. Do they cross? How is poaching by motos limited. Does simple signage work? Crested Butte and Sun Valley have both but the areas are largely separated right? I'm looking for case studies where it's worked or not worked. Thanks!
    It worked OK in Boise, Idaho when I lived there. Thereís a motorcycle trail right in the middle of the Ridge-to-Rivers trail system and I donít recall poaching proplems.

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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by dman_mb1 View Post
    I just rode near Tahoe (Sawtooth and Big Chief Trails outside Truckee) where the moto trails and non-moto trails crisscrossed. Non-moto trails seemed pretty bike-specific and I didnít see any hikers or equestrians. Signage was good at the intersections and there would then be a ďNo MotoĒ graphic sign about 100í in past the intersection on the bike route. we saw and heard a few motorized bikes on the moto section, but none and no tracks on the pedal bike only sections (eBikes specifically not allowed either). Iím not a local so donít know the history, but Iím sure someone here shoukd know. Public land is Forest Service and the trails were developed by Truckee Trails truckeetrails.org Sweet trails by the way.
    That's good to know. I'll look into that example. Thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by hikerdave View Post
    It worked OK in Boise, Idaho when I lived there. Thereís a motorcycle trail right in the middle of the Ridge-to-Rivers trail system and I donít recall poaching proplems.

    https://www.blm.gov/visit/8th-street-trail
    yeah, BLM is different. Much easier to get bike optimized trails with that agency. Still, made some progress. The previous NEPA decision for the area designated motorized trails so the USFS Rec Staff assumed that meant additional trails would need to be motorized. And that's how it would go if a trail was added with a Categorical Exclusion with only one alternative considered in detail. If the trail is added through an EA or EIS process, there is a better likelihood of adding nonmotorized trails. It's a no-go with the mtb community if the only trail we can add is shared-use motorized. It's a no-go with the Sierra Club on any additional motorized trails in this area. Guess we'll see what happens.

    Either way, contrary to what I was told by the land manager both motorized and nonmotorized trails can exist in the same managment area depending on the "desired conditions" in the plan.

  13. #13
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    Another area to look at that is USFS is Kernville CA. Kern Plateau is primarily a motorized area but has a few non-motorized trails as well (part of Cannell, and Fish Creek Tr). Not sure if the motos stay off Cannell.

    FWIW, if the MTB trail is a directional downhill trail it shouldn't be a huge deal if motos use it. Motos often prefer to ride up what MTBs prefer to ride down. The issue I usually see is big moto ruts which usually happens on steeper trails.

    Downieville is the other USFS area I can think of with motorized and non.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by evdog View Post
    Another area to look at that is USFS is Kernville CA. Kern Plateau is primarily a motorized area but has a few non-motorized trails as well (part of Cannell, and Fish Creek Tr). Not sure if the motos stay off Cannell.

    FWIW, if the MTB trail is a directional downhill trail it shouldn't be a huge deal if motos use it. Motos often prefer to ride up what MTBs prefer to ride down. The issue I usually see is big moto ruts which usually happens on steeper trails.

    Downieville is the other USFS area I can think of with motorized and non.
    Yeah the idea is for a bi-directional climbing trail and a directional DH trail but the gradient isn't all that steep. The purpose is to partly disperse use in a more controversial area but that's also where the best DH terrain is. The motorized thing turned out to be more a bluff by the land manager to dissuade the collaborative group from considering it as part of planning. And also motorized users are not at the table in this particular planning effort so hardly fair to that demographic.

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