How would you repair this trail?- Mtbr.com
Results 1 to 29 of 29
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,053

    How would you repair this trail?

    It's not a big section. Maybe about 2' long that goes down to the river adjacent to the trail. As you can see, there are only a couple of inches left on the side of the trail to ride on. You could get away with something as simple as two 2"x 6" planks side by side over the problem area....or would you build something to span the entire trail at that point?

    I know several ways to solve this issue, but I'm curious as to how others would solve this problem.

    One thing to add in is that the solution would have to be anchored in. This past winter this section of trail was under a foot or two of water at one point.


    How would you repair this trail?-20180710_072758.jpg

  2. #2
    WillWorkForTrail
    Reputation: Cotharyus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    4,917
    Can you post a picture with a broader view of the area around that section of trail? Usually when I see something like that, I wonder about the stability of the entire section, and my knee jerk reaction would be re-route the whole thing a little further uphill/away from the river. But sometimes all it takes is a better view of what's around to know you can't or don't need to do that.

  3. #3
    Location: 10 ft from Hell Moderator
    Reputation: life behind bars's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    4,450
    Reroute the trail to a more sustainable area.
    I ncredibly
    M yopic
    B ackstabbing
    A ssholes

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Mr Pig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    11,033
    Quote Originally Posted by Cotharyus View Post
    I wonder about the stability of the entire section, and my knee jerk reaction would be re-route the whole thing a little further uphill/away from the river.
    That was exactly my thought. I know a section of trail like that and it has collapsed in multiple locations. No way that part of trail is going to stay stable for long.

    A friend of mine hit a hole exactly like that and did a perfect back-flip into a bush, like landing on a big pillow! He was very lucky. The trail is at the top of a steep banking, maybe twenty-feet high, and I thought he was going all the way down. Walked away without a scratch.

  5. #5
    EAT MORE GRIME
    Reputation: 127.0.0.1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    5,403
    Quote Originally Posted by life behind bars View Post
    Reroute the trail to a more sustainable area.
    this

    river edge trails are to be ridden as is, if they seasonally flood then you just take it and make new bridges all the time, or re-route a problem area. that little gap is nothing, we have river trails all over the place and that gap is just something to hork over and continue on. [trying to fix that so close to the edge just makes a mess of the river]


    you could just hedge trim that whole section and without all the encroaching green stuff I bet it would be far more easy to ride.
    "Put your seatbelt back on or get out and sit in the middle of that circle of death." - Johnny Scoot

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    543
    It is probably best to raise the trail above any wetlands if possible. If there is a reason that is not possible, then you should build a turnpike (with stone foundation) over the area that floods.

  7. #7
    EAT MORE GRIME
    Reputation: 127.0.0.1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    5,403
    Quote Originally Posted by endo_alley View Post
    It is probably best to raise the trail above any wetlands if possible. If there is a reason that is not possible, then you should build a turnpike (with stone foundation) over the area that floods.
    better check your local, state, and federal laws about landscaping waterways....such as stonework (or anything else)

    waterways have special protection and doing anything at all within specific distances to waterways can be a serious violation. I'd recommend trimming the bushes and leaving the trail alone and let it do what trails next to rivers do naturally.
    "Put your seatbelt back on or get out and sit in the middle of that circle of death." - Johnny Scoot

  8. #8
    since 4/10/2009
    Reputation: Harold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    29,313
    Quote Originally Posted by ctxcrossx View Post
    It's not a big section. Maybe about 2' long that goes down to the river adjacent to the trail. As you can see, there are only a couple of inches left on the side of the trail to ride on. You could get away with something as simple as two 2"x 6" planks side by side over the problem area....or would you build something to span the entire trail at that point?

    I know several ways to solve this issue, but I'm curious as to how others would solve this problem.

    One thing to add in is that the solution would have to be anchored in. This past winter this section of trail was under a foot or two of water at one point.
    IME, trying to build something here, with the possibility of future inundation is a waste of energy. Even if anchored, future floods will eventually pick wood up and move it.

    Using rock would require REALLY big rock and probably involve bringing in an engineer to make sure it held up and most likely also a permitting process.

    I'd be prone to moving the trail, especially if we're talking about it being built above a cut bank along the river.

  9. #9
    EAT MORE GRIME
    Reputation: 127.0.0.1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    5,403
    one a lot of river trail I ride....we have bridges with ropes on all 4 corners so when the flood come and finally ends we can go haul the bridges back in place (if the trail itself is still there)
    "Put your seatbelt back on or get out and sit in the middle of that circle of death." - Johnny Scoot

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,053
    Thank you for the replies. I honestly hadn't initially considered that the trail should be moved, but it totally makes sense now. That part of the trail actually drops down about 10'-15' to go down to the river, parallels it for about 200' and then goes back up as it leaves the river. My guess is that it was designed this way for the visual. The best solution definitely seems to be a reroute.

    The area in question seems somewhat stable, as that area hasn't seen a noticeable increase in erosion, most likely due to low traffic. There is a second one in the area as well which is in similar condition.

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    543
    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    better check your local, state, and federal laws about landscaping waterways....such as stonework (or anything else)

    waterways have special protection and doing anything at all within specific distances to waterways can be a serious violation. I'd recommend trimming the bushes and leaving the trail alone and let it do what trails next to rivers do naturally.
    Hmm. Good point. I wonder if the ones who initially built this trail in a wetland got proper permission to do so? Or is it a rogue trail or social trail? Is this original poster a legal land manger of the trail in question? If not he (she) must get the proper permission to do any work or improvement on the trail.

  12. #12
    since 4/10/2009
    Reputation: Harold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    29,313
    Quote Originally Posted by endo_alley View Post
    Hmm. Good point. I wonder if the ones who initially built this trail in a wetland got proper permission to do so? Or is it a rogue trail or social trail? Is this original poster a legal land manger of the trail in question? If not he (she) must get the proper permission to do any work or improvement on the trail.
    Prob not necessary. A trail itself is not much of an issue. The issues arise if you try to modify the floodplain itself. Say, if you tried to shore up the bank to stabilize the trail in its current location.

    Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

  13. #13
    WillWorkForTrail
    Reputation: Cotharyus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    4,917
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    Prob not necessary. A trail itself is not much of an issue. The issues arise if you try to modify the floodplain itself. Say, if you tried to shore up the bank to stabilize the trail in its current location.

    Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk
    Exactly. I go one further with this. It applies especially to any areas near waterways (rivers, creeks, lakes) managed by the corps of engineers. In one instance, a non-profit I'm on the board of wanted to put gravel down on a section of a primitive greenway because it got soft at times in late winter and early spring. Even though we're talking about 2" or so of gravel, there was a 6 month approval process to get it done because it's on a a flood way (not a flood plain) in a corps of engineers management area. The concern is will that 2" cause a problem with water flow, increase speed, decrease capacity, etc etc etc etc. The penalties for screwing up on Corps land are something you don't even want to have to consider. Best make sure you have your boxes checked and bases covered messing around next to a river.

    (yes, I know, this is a doom/gloom worst case kind of post - but it pays to know these things. Trust me.)

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Mr Pig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    11,033
    When I was a kid we used to dam burns for the fun of it...

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,053
    I have worked on it with permission. However, due to various constraints in my life, I tend to focus on a specific aspects of trail work. I don't have time to devote to trail building and things like that. Instead, I try to be active in maintaining the trails instead. This includes bringing the chainsaw to clear downed trees, cutting back brush, closing trial braids, etc. So potentially fixing this issue would the the maximum that I would do, and that would be merely to keep the trail in good condition. I will be passing on the word of the trail condition and the possible reroute suggestion to the big dogs!

  16. #16
    saddlemeat
    Reputation: bsieb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    3,857
    You could put a stone or pvc culvert under the tread.
    I ride with the best dogs.




  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    543
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    When I was a kid we used to dam burns for the fun of it...
    Did you burn it first and then dam it? Or was it already burnt?

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Mr Pig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    11,033
    Quote Originally Posted by endo_alley View Post
    Did you burn it first and then dam it? Or was it already burnt?
    A burn is a large stream/small river in Scotland.

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    543
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    A burn is a large stream/small river in Scotland.
    Vey good. I actually had no idea what you were referring to. I even looked up "burn" in the internet dictionary for any interesting definitions. But none came up. So I figured you were using the common definition of the word. Learn something new every day. Damming creeks and rivers is frowned on around here.

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Mr Pig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    11,033
    Quote Originally Posted by endo_alley View Post
    Damming creeks and rivers is frowned on around here.
    They're probably not too happy about it here either but you need to appreciate what the topography of Scotland is like. A flat piece of ground more than a mile long is unusual or man-made, even the flatter areas are hilly and it rains a lot. There are burns, rivers and lochs everywhere. They are so common that no one gives them any thought and many are ignored and neglected. They are not thought of as a resource, they are just scenery.

    I can ride a twelve-mile loop from my house and pass four lochs! Two of them are used for fishing, they stock them with Trout. With waterways, lochs and pools so prevalent as a kid they're just places you play. Build bridges over them, dam them, swim in them, jump over them, all good fun :0)

  21. #21
    Cycologist
    Reputation: chazpat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    6,597
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    They're probably not too happy about it here either but you need to appreciate what the topography of Scotland is like. A flat piece of ground more than a mile long is unusual or man-made, even the flatter areas are hilly and it rains a lot. There are burns, rivers and lochs everywhere. They are so common that no one gives them any thought and many are ignored and neglected. They are not thought of as a resource, they are just scenery.

    I can ride a twelve-mile loop from my house and pass four lochs! Two of them are used for fishing, they stock them with Trout. With waterways, lochs and pools so prevalent as a kid they're just places you play. Build bridges over them, dam them, swim in them, jump over them, all good fun :0)
    Tell Nessie I said "hello" next time you see her!
    This post is a natural product. Variances in spelling & grammar should be appreciated as part of its character & beauty.

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Mr Pig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    11,033
    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    Tell Nessie I said "hello" next time you see her!
    Every loch has a monster in it. At least it does when the local women go swimming.

  23. #23
    One ring to mash them all
    Reputation: the one ring's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    1,714
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    When I was a kid we used to dam burns for the fun of it...
    You had fun turning Scotland into a burning dam nation?
    Go Fact Yourself.

    Real eyes realize real lies.

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    543
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    They're probably not too happy about it here either but you need to appreciate what the topography of Scotland is like. A flat piece of ground more than a mile long is unusual or man-made, even the flatter areas are hilly and it rains a lot. There are burns, rivers and lochs everywhere. They are so common that no one gives them any thought and many are ignored and neglected. They are not thought of as a resource, they are just scenery.

    I can ride a twelve-mile loop from my house and pass four lochs! Two of them are used for fishing, they stock them with Trout. With waterways, lochs and pools so prevalent as a kid they're just places you play. Build bridges over them, dam them, swim in them, jump over them, all good fun :0)
    I live in western Colorado, USA. It is pretty hilly around here too. But the climate is a bit more arid than in Scotland, I'm sure. With scarcity comes excessive value. And so as they say around here, "Whiskey is for drinkin. Water is for fightin."

  25. #25
    Pro Crastinator
    Reputation: .WestCoastHucker.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    10,934
    Quote Originally Posted by ctxcrossx View Post
    ..I'm curious as to how others would solve this problem..
    How would you repair this trail?-wu5gjl.jpg


  26. #26
    K&K
    Reputation: ki5ka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    933
    Trailbuilding

  27. #27
    MTB Rider
    Reputation: willtsmith_nwi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Posts
    3,004
    Reroute to higher ground.

  28. #28
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    3,065
    Quote Originally Posted by .WestCoastHucker. View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	wu5gjl.jpg 
Views:	18 
Size:	43.2 KB 
ID:	1208669
    Yeah but where does OP get that many cats?

    Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

  29. #29
    Location: 10 ft from Hell Moderator
    Reputation: life behind bars's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    4,450
    Quote Originally Posted by tfinator View Post
    Yeah but where does OP get that many cats?

    Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk




    Herd them.
    I ncredibly
    M yopic
    B ackstabbing
    A ssholes

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 5
    Last Post: 10-14-2015, 04:58 PM
  2. how would you repair this
    By IAmHolland in forum Wheels and Tires
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 12-21-2014, 10:40 AM
  3. Would this be a product that would interest you?
    By cona in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09-30-2014, 11:57 PM
  4. Replies: 16
    Last Post: 08-26-2014, 09:01 AM
  5. To Frame Repair or Not Frame Repair
    By Single Trak Mind in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 12-18-2012, 04:48 PM

Members who have read this thread: 3

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2020 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.