Amending "moon dust"- Mtbr.com
Results 1 to 15 of 15
  1. #1
    K&K
    Reputation: ki5ka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    931

    Amending "moon dust"

    Working on a 1/2 mile training track around an athletic field. 100% of the soil is very fine mineral soil with no binder. This is in the low desert.

    I had a meeting with the district CEO and he is enthusiastic about my plans.

    First problem I would like to tackle is amending the soil to make it more stable. I don't want the pseudo-paved surface I find on many pump-tracks, but as is, sections of the trail disappears after a couple of days of no use.

    The school district has a Civil Engineer I can run this by, but thought I'd poll for ideas here first.

    Anyone had experience doing this or seen where it has been done?

  2. #2
    EAT MORE GRIME
    Reputation: 127.0.0.1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    5,309
    money is the answer

    1) constant watering

    or

    2) pave it

    or

    3) rip it out and resurface it with all new soil

    or

    4) salt the hell out of it
    but this cannot be done properly without EPA study and approval
    lest you contaminate some waterway or aquifer or kill some species
    "Put your seatbelt back on or get out and sit in the middle of that circle of death." - Johnny Scoot

  3. #3
    Location: 10 ft from Hell Moderator
    Reputation: life behind bars's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    4,443
    If funding allows, bentonite clay.
    I ncredibly
    M yopic
    B ackstabbing
    A ssholes

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation: WHALENARD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    4,952
    I've seen this dealt with a million and 1 ways.
    Favorite results= "soil cemet" basically mix in a ratio of sand and portland cemet

    Least favorite results=3/4 minus. Despite what anybody says 3/4 minus sucks on trail.
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

  5. #5
    K&K
    Reputation: ki5ka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    931
    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    money is the answer
    Money fixes a lot of things.

    1) constant watering
    not available


    2) pave it
    This is for an MTB training track with a trail tread that is similar to our desert singletrack. In some ways, similar to whats here but with gravel thrown in. want an MTB surface, not a bmx/pump-track surface


    3) rip it out and resurface it with all new soil
    Guess that would probably work.


    4) salt the hell out of it
    Interesting. I don't know what that means but we already have such a high level of salt in our soils that we get salt-pans where our puddles dry out.

  6. #6
    K&K
    Reputation: ki5ka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    931
    Quote Originally Posted by life behind bars View Post
    If funding allows, bentonite clay.
    Is this the material used on bmx and pump tracks?
    Does this need to be routinely watered?

  7. #7
    WillWorkForTrail
    Reputation: Cotharyus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    4,880
    Have you looked at a soil binder like gorilla snot?

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    2,753
    The salt and clay are attempts to form a bond with water in the mineral dirt. Out east (yeah, I know, totally different situation but bare with me) we have seen some raking of trail morph into total removal of leaves from all the trails of certain networks. A few years down the road, in dry cycles, the trails turn to moon dust. Yes, organic material such as leaves hold moisture. That said some of the heaviest erosion takes place during these dry times when the "Moon Dust" conditions occur. I have started not raking on trails where traffic alone is enough to keep the trail navigable. The result has been the leaves get mulched up and the trails are far less prone to turning to moon dust. I believe the higher ratio of organic material helps hold water in the dirt. Maybe mixing in organic debris via rototiller would give you more stable dirt without $ or salt? Try a test patch.

    The other variable is particle size. A different type of dirt in combination with what sounds like a very consistent particle size in the dirt on site will help stabilize.

    Random thoughts....

  9. #9
    EAT MORE GRIME
    Reputation: 127.0.0.1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    5,309
    Quote Originally Posted by ki5ka View Post
    Money fixes a lot of things.


    not available




    This is for an MTB training track with a trail tread that is similar to our desert singletrack. In some ways, similar to whats here but with gravel thrown in. want an MTB surface, not a bmx/pump-track surface




    Guess that would probably work.




    Interesting. I don't know what that means but we already have such a high level of salt in our soils that we get salt-pans where our puddles dry out.
    salt means rock salt

    salt pulls moisture from the air and cuts the dust down to near zero. but it will creep and affect things like plants and salamanders, so needs an environmental OK to use in
    certain areas. but salt has been used for 'moon dust' control for eons.
    "Put your seatbelt back on or get out and sit in the middle of that circle of death." - Johnny Scoot

  10. #10
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    1,121
    Some areas just aren't meant to have trail created. Maybe try somewhere else in the area.

  11. #11
    K&K
    Reputation: ki5ka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    931
    Dave, I like this idea. One problem will be the lack of moisture to continue the decomposition of the organics, but as you say, I can do a test patch and try it out. If I can find well composted compost... I wonder about manure?

  12. #12
    K&K
    Reputation: ki5ka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    931
    I'll check it out. Will this result in something different then the paved dirt effect?

  13. #13
    Location: 10 ft from Hell Moderator
    Reputation: life behind bars's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    4,443
    Quote Originally Posted by ki5ka View Post
    Is this the material used on bmx and pump tracks?
    Does this need to be routinely watered?



    Yes. But it holds water reducing the need for applications. It's a good first step. Like others have already posted, organics in the soil is the end game. It will probably require a multi pronged solution requiring a good sum of money unfortunately.
    I ncredibly
    M yopic
    B ackstabbing
    A ssholes

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    8,729
    Quote Originally Posted by ki5ka View Post
    I'll check it out. Will this result in something different then the paved dirt effect?
    I think you're going to end up with that at some point no matter what.
    Enough tires going down the same path over and over and it's going to pack solid in time, unless you stick with moon dust or sand. I built our pumptrack from screened loam and it's been ridden into serious solidity.
    Sinister Bikes
    Wraith Bicycles
    Sunday River Mtn Bike Park
    NEMBA
    Wachusett Brewing Co.

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    840
    an older thread on a similar topic:

    http://forums.mtbr.com/trail-buildin...ce-785482.html

Similar Threads

  1. Moon dust and suspension performance
    By half_man_half_scab in forum Shocks and Suspension
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 04-14-2018, 03:48 AM
  2. Replies: 4
    Last Post: 10-13-2011, 11:49 PM
  3. Dust, dust EVERYWHERE!
    By 007 in forum California - Socal
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 09-10-2011, 05:44 PM
  4. Replies: 5
    Last Post: 08-30-2011, 08:10 PM
  5. Replies: 5
    Last Post: 08-17-2011, 07:41 PM

Members who have read this thread: 0

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2020 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.