Torque wrench or no torque wrench!- Mtbr.com
Results 1 to 33 of 33
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    118

    Torque wrench or no torque wrench!

    Im in need of a new bottom bracket and thinking of buy a Chris King. I have never use a torque wrench on BB but have seen many forums where people do. Other than the price is there anything special about the CK that I should use a TW? Ive never had a problem not using one but also have never own a CK. Any thoughts on this?

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    13,444
    "Threaded bottom brackets can be installed with any shop quality tool for installing and removing 16-notch external bearing bottom bracket cups (e.g. Park Tool BBT-19). However we recommend the use of the Chris King External Bottom Bracket Cup Tool, for a precision match to avoid marring your beautifully anodized cups. Our External Bottom Bracket Cup Tool is compatible with you favorite 3/8" torque wrench capable of at least, the required 40Nm(30ft.lbs.) of force to secure our threaded BB cups in your frame."
    You may want to get a cup tool and then torque it by feel if you are used to that. Otherwise use a torque wrench as suggested.
    Nothing special.

    I think it's more important or also important to get the correct preload for your crank and the angular contact bearings.
    Chris King doesn't give any torque specs. They just say to adjust so there is no side-to-side movement and readjust periodically for breakin/wear.

    "Three white plastic spindle spacers have been included to fine tune BB bearing preload. They each have a thickness of .33 mm. These spacers are only required when fine tuning of the BB bearing preload is necessary. Proper bearing preload is tantamount to BB performance and component longevity, especially since our BB uses angular contact bearings, which in turn allow for wear and break-in, and future adjustments may be required. Additional spacer kits are available through any authorized Chris King dealer, or directly from Chris King Precision Components."

    If you're using a Shimano crankset preload is controlled by the non-drive crank arm plastic cap/fixing bolt. I don't think it's meant to exert the force necessary to preload angular BB bearings because Shimano BBs don't have them. I use a metal cap and metal Park tool(BBT-10) to really crank down the preload for my Enduro XD-15 BB. It can take it because of the ceramic balls and super hard nitrogen stainless steel races(used for jet engine fan blades). There is probably an expensive 8 point star bit for that cap that would allow you to use a torque wrench. Or find a square bit that fits and use that. I'd be inclined to use it and the metal cap/fixing bolt with the more fragile Chris King BB to keep track of the preload.

  3. #3
    WillWorkForTrail
    Reputation: Cotharyus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    4,879
    I'm just going to address torque wrenches here, nothing more. You can live life without one. But there are times when they come in handy. I hate having to guess at how tight something is, especially if carbon is involved. For that matter, things threaded into AL are pretty easy to strip out if you get a little over excited about tightening it up. A lot of people will debate how useful a torque wrench is if it isn't calibrated periodically. I say for certain torque settings, it's better to be close (with a wrench that's a little off) than way off (without a torque wrench). If you work on stuff a lot (bikes, cars) it's good to have a torque wrench. If it's not something you do much, take you bike to your LBS and ask them to torque a part right if it's a concern for you, or go to an auto parts store and rent a torque wrench. You never know when one might just save your bacon, or your warranty.

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    234
    Quote Originally Posted by santa cruzer73 View Post
    Im in need of a new bottom bracket and thinking of buy a Chris King. I have never use a torque wrench on BB but have seen many forums where people do. Other than the price is there anything special about the CK that I should use a TW? Ive never had a problem not using one but also have never own a CK. Any thoughts on this?
    Neh. Bottombracket I just get real good and tight. English threaded? You can't strip those massive threads.

    Working with smaller things, yes.

    You can get a small 5Nm torque key, very handy for cockpit parts, cleats, etc. Critical if you have carbon stuff.

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mack_turtle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    11,422
    when Chris King gives you are torque spec, use a damn torque wrench!

    I use a torque wrench on 90% of the parts I touch. this ensures that, should anything go wrong, I can save myself from liability because I followed manufacturer's recommendations using a torque wrench that has been calibrated within the last twelve months. it just gives me peace of mind to know that I did the best possible job according to the engineers that designed a part.

  6. #6
    EAT MORE GRIME
    Reputation: 127.0.0.1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    5,299
    torque wrench for any carbon mandatory. you need to torque to to spec and
    be able to repeat that same torque. especially 4-bolt stem/handlebar interface

    My CF bits are 5.5nm, 6nm, 10.2nm, 12nm

    I use a faily decent yet cheap spindoctor set for these. the torque wrench needs to be close to accurate but what is really important is 'repeatability' when disassemble/reassemble you can reproduce the same torque to prevent continual over-tightening



    BB, (any anything metal/metal) just gutentite for me

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    3,500
    For shop use where there's a serious liability for the store and the mechanics working on the bike, the torque wrench gets a workout every day. For personal work, my calibrated fingers are good enough, I'm within 10-15% of the shop's torque wrench for most common fastener torques.

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation: OddTrickStar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    198
    Torque wrenches are good for general use. They are not an absolute though. Tolerances can be off enough to make their use impractical. Any fastener that is also flexing additional material like seat tubes and stems etc will eat into your torque.

    Bolts and studs with nuts are actually being stretched when you tighten them. Since it is much more difficult to measure for proper stretch, we use torque instead. Lube, lack of, thread lock, dried up old threadlock, wear, corrosion, burrs, damaged threads, bent bolts, dirt, temperature will all effect how much the bolt actually stretches with any given torque amount.

    It's a good idea to use them to avoid overtightening as long as you're not ignoring the other factors.

    Most mechanics don't use them often enough. Drives me nuts to see people just running down nuts and bolts with an impact gun.

  9. #9
    Magically Delicious
    Reputation: Cleared2land's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    8,404
    ^^^ I've never seen anyone use an impact on any bicycle.
    A bad day of cycling is better than a good day at work

    Work Truck - Dassault Falcon 7X

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation: OddTrickStar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    198
    Quote Originally Posted by Cleared2land View Post
    ^^^ I've never seen anyone use an impact on any bicycle.
    I have. They were assembling new bikes in a bike shop. They would use them on repairs also because it was faster. I asked about it when I saw him doing the assembly.

    When you find a good mechanic, stick with them. They are rare. Just ask mack turtle^^^^^ he seems like one of the good ones.

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    118
    I decided on a hope bottom bracket. At the same time feel its time to buy a torque wrench. Whats size is more likely to cover an entire bike 3/8 1/4 ect... Or should I buy two different sizes? Thank you for the all the response!

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    2,504
    You need two, but rather than drive size, you should be concerned with range; most smaller wrenches handle 3-15nm, and larger ones roughly 15-100nm. The former is usually a 1/4" drive, the latter 3/8". 1/2" is useless on bicycles.

    You can knock out both wrenches under $50, as long as you buy beam type wrenches...not as fast, but just as accurate.

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    2,790
    Quote Originally Posted by wschruba View Post
    You need two, but rather than drive size, you should be concerned with range...
    ^^^ This...torque wrenches are more accurate in the middle of their range.

  14. #14
    Enthusiast
    Reputation: JonathanGennick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    5,359
    Quote Originally Posted by santa cruzer73 View Post
    I have never use a torque wrench on BB but have seen many forums where people do.
    I do use one on bottom-brackets. I'm sure there's a big margin of error, but I like knowing that I have tightened within the specified range. I also find the longer handle helpful in getting correct leverage. Without a torque wrench I'd be using a piece of pipe as a cheater to extend my socket-wrench handle -- which I do use when loosening those same bottom-brackets.

    For the big torque settings like on bottom-brackets I just use a simple, beam-style torque wrench from Park Tools. Low cost. Works fine. And fwiw, the beam-style wrench is great when teaching kids how to build bikes. It is a less abstract design than the click-style wrenches.

  15. #15
    Enthusiast
    Reputation: JonathanGennick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    5,359
    Because every thread needs a photo...

    Torque wrench or no torque wrench!-imageuploadedbytapatalk1439038052.608970.jpg

    It's from a build we did together a week ago. Or I should say that he did. Mostly I just sat around and coached.

  16. #16
    Magically Delicious
    Reputation: Cleared2land's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    8,404
    ^^^ While there might be some truth in the above statement that torque wrenches are more accurate in the middle of there range, this can be misleading. I can see this being more of a problem for low quality tools.

    My torque wrenches are Snap-on (1/4" inch/lbs & 3/8" foot/lbs.) and must be calibrated annually and be within 3% (standard tolerance) throughout the entire wrench torque range of 30 inch/lbs to 200 inch/lbs (1/4" drive). Not just in the middle range. My calibration papers indicate the test range and deviation for every 10 inch lbs. (for the 1/4" inch/lbs. wrench) and the upper and lower number tolerances are all have a documented deviation of less than 2.3% that is effectively the same as the middle range numbers.

    Any quality torque wrench should be able to duplicate some reasonable level of accuracy throughout its intended range of torques, not just the middle range. What is the value of a tool that is only accurate in the middle range and how could the manufacturer market the tool with a statement of range?
    A bad day of cycling is better than a good day at work

    Work Truck - Dassault Falcon 7X

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    13,444
    So, like anything, a properly maintain tool is the way to go. Maybe 1% of torque wrenches that home mechanics would be using are calibrated yearly. A feel for the torque when hand tightening can work and doesn't need to be recalibrated. You have it or you don't have it yet.
    That's in case your torque wrench is out for calibration, of course.

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    732
    Quote Originally Posted by Cleared2land View Post
    ^^^ I've never seen anyone use an impact on any bicycle.
    I always use a cordless impact on brake rotors. All those little torx heads drive me nuts. I just spin them down, however, and use a torque wrench to finish them off.

    Lazy, hapazard, and not recommended by anyone...but haven't screwed up a wheel yet.

    If you work on bikes you should own a torque wrench. But 99% of the time you can get by with your brain.

  19. #19
    Magically Delicious
    Reputation: Cleared2land's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    8,404
    I think that you guys are using the term 'Impact Wrench' when you might be really referring to an air driven ratchet or electrical device (battery driven screw gun) that is normally used for low torque, quick production like assembly.

    An Impact Wrench is a tool (usually pneumatic) that is intended to deliver high-torque impacts assisted by a hammering mechanism. Commonly found in automotive and heavy equipment repair environments and easily identified by their sound.
    A bad day of cycling is better than a good day at work

    Work Truck - Dassault Falcon 7X

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    2,504
    For what it's worth, I use an impact all the time to remove parts from bikes. There are not many [good] uses otherwise in a bike shop, but it can save aggravation removing long, threadlocked items, like some bottom brackets, brake system bolts, crank bolts, etc. They also remove chainring bolts very well.

    For installation of new parts? Hardly the best tool.

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    732
    Quote Originally Posted by Cleared2land View Post
    I think that you guys are using the term 'Impact Wrench' when you might be really referring to an air driven ratchet or electrical device (battery driven screw gun) that is normally used for low torque, quick production like assembly.

    An Impact Wrench is a tool (usually pneumatic) that is intended to deliver high-torque impacts assisted by a hammering mechanism. Commonly found in automotive and heavy equipment repair environments and easily identified by their sound.
    Impact Driver (electric) vs. Impact wrench (pneumatic).

    An impact driver isn't exactly a "screw gun". You can run lag bolts with these guys. They tend to have a lot more finesse than a pneumatic impact wrench, but usually wouldn't be appropriate for most bike parts.

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation: johnD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    992
    The only thing I use a torque wrench on is the bottom bracket. But , I turned wrenches for a living for quiet a few years.

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    118
    Can anyone suggestions a bb tool with 3/8 drive and a 3/8 toque wrench?

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation: pharmaboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    514
    For the other view....

    I have a torque wrench - used on the first carbon bike I built up, I haven't used it now in a couple of years.

    Why? Because the size of the Allen key tells you a lot about expected torque, and all bolts need to be tight enough to hold - to wit, use of the occasional thread locker will get you further than use of a torque wrench. I have had stems, and brakes undo when done up to spec and undo when no torque wrench was used, but they always stay done up when I make the effort to a thread locker .

    Personally, it's really rare to see a torque wrench being used in a bike service place, unless it's the 16year old kid that's been told to use one ( for obvious reasons)

    If you are kind of guy that causes people to wince when you shake their hand, get a torque wrench.

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation: J.B. Weld's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    13,787
    Quote Originally Posted by wschruba View Post
    For installation of new parts? Hardly the best tool.
    Seems like they could be handy for certain situations, rotor bolts come to mind. I use a little Milwaukee m-12 for electrical work and with the clutch set on low there's no chance of stripping a bolt unless it was cross threaded to start with, I wouldn't final torque with them of course.

    If I still had a shop I know I'd be experimenting with one.

  26. #26
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    2,504
    I find backing up bolts/nuts with any air/powered tool to line the threads up is a wash, at best. It works often enough that you get comfortable doing it, but not enough to trust it making money. I'd rather line it up by hand, then spin it in with the tool (if I used one). I found that, unless I had the specific tool setup and told myself to use it for stuff, it just...sat there. Maybe the electric one would work, in lieu of having to drag out the air tool and connect it.

    It's a moot point for me, anyway. I change maybe 5 rotors a year.

  27. #27
    Plays with tools
    Reputation: customfab's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    4,640
    Quote Originally Posted by santa cruzer73 View Post
    Can anyone suggestions a bb tool with 3/8 drive and a 3/8 toque wrench?
    3/8" drive with the common torque spec engraved on it

    In my experience BB's creak more often because somebody over tightened them instead of them being too loose. When that happens it stretches the threads in the shell or the cup and then you get movement and the creaking that comes with them. The tools that are often used to install/remove BB's are a little longer than they need to be, or are 1/2" drive that encourages people to really crank them down.

    Properly torqued BB's don't make noise until the bearings go bad in my experience.

  28. #28
    Saving lives with knives.
    Reputation: frank daleview's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    958
    https://www.google.com/shopping/prod...FQdYkgodoogBbw

    No good reason for a home mechanic not have one. I have tested it against my fancier one and above 4nm it is accurate enough for your carbon fiber bits.
    Formerly known as iceaxe

  29. #29
    psycho cyclo addict
    Reputation: edubfromktown's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    2,908
    Cotharyus nailed it... better to be off a little with a torque wrench than a lot with no point of reference (except maybe a 1' pipe on the end of your wrench to tighten stuff "even better" hahaha).

    I use a torque wrench for carbon stuff and some items that are notorious for having issues if over-tightened (stem handlebar clamp bolts, saddle rail clamps, bottom brackets and cassette lock rings).
    【ツ】 eDub 【ツ】

    Gravel bike w/ MTB tires
    Rigid steel SS 29er
    Rigid titanium SS 27.5
    Full suspension 29er
    Hard Tail 29er

  30. #30
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    41
    Quote Originally Posted by pharmaboy View Post
    For the other view....

    I have a torque wrench - used on the first carbon bike I built up, I haven't used it now in a couple of years.

    Why? Because the size of the Allen key tells you a lot about expected torque, and all bolts need to be tight enough to hold - to wit, use of the occasional thread locker will get you further than use of a torque wrench. I have had stems, and brakes undo when done up to spec and undo when no torque wrench was used, but they always stay done up when I make the effort to a thread locker .

    Personally, it's really rare to see a torque wrench being used in a bike service place, unless it's the 16year old kid that's been told to use one ( for obvious reasons)

    If you are kind of guy that causes people to wince when you shake their hand, get a torque wrench.
    Hey man! I was one of those 16 year old kids you're talking about. They made me use a torque wrench too! ;)

    Seriously though, you're right. And as a consumer, I wish more shops would embrace the idea. It's an easy way control quality, especially when you have 16 year old kids wrenching next to master mechanics.

    At home, if there's a torque spec., I follow it. Otherwise, I use them to apply even clamping force on things like handle bar clamps and stems. If I have a stem or handlebar that keeps moving, I even out the torque among the bolts. It's a miracle fix. Notably, it makes a huge difference with the steerer clamps on old style Thomson stems. I also like to try a torque wrench in troubleshooting squeaky seat rail clamps when they have multiple bolts.

  31. #31
    Plays with tools
    Reputation: customfab's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    4,640
    Quote Originally Posted by frank daleview View Post
    https://www.google.com/shopping/prod...FQdYkgodoogBbw

    No good reason for a home mechanic not have one. I have tested it against my fancier one and above 4nm it is accurate enough for your carbon fiber bits.
    How did you test them? Reason I ask is that tightening a bolt with one tool and then checking it with a calibrated tool isn't an acceptable way of testing. Reason is you have to overcome the friction the fastener has at rest to get it to move again. So you could be low by a fair bit and the calibrated tool wouldn't turn the fastener any more.

  32. #32
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    1,487
    Quote Originally Posted by Cotharyus View Post
    I'm just going to address torque wrenches here, nothing more. You can live life without one. But there are times when they come in handy. I hate having to guess at how tight something is, especially if carbon is involved. For that matter, things threaded into AL are pretty easy to strip out if you get a little over excited about tightening it up. A lot of people will debate how useful a torque wrench is if it isn't calibrated periodically. I say for certain torque settings, it's better to be close (with a wrench that's a little off) than way off (without a torque wrench). If you work on stuff a lot (bikes, cars) it's good to have a torque wrench. If it's not something you do much, take you bike to your LBS and ask them to torque a part right if it's a concern for you, or go to an auto parts store and rent a torque wrench. You never know when one might just save your bacon, or your warranty.
    Spot on man. I was a professional auto mechanic the majority of my life and I used Snap On torque wrenches for certain jobs. I still have them of course and use them for certain jobs on bikes. On cars I used them for head bolts, crank bolts, rod bolts and that was about it (It's been a while so I may have forgotten something). For other bolts like intake bolts, air plenum, even wheels, I never torqued unless the shop I was working at required wheels to be torqued. Same with bikes. I torque my Race Face crank bolt to the specific torque but off the top of my head I can't think of anything else. I feel as much torque is applied to the cranks I want to make sure THAT bolt is definitely tight enough. I did strip a 5mm aluminum thread in a Race Face stem once. It was most likely from over tightening too many times as that stem had been on and off at least 6 times playing with stem spacers and one time it finally gave way on one bolt. Oh well I bought a new stem lol. Aside from that one stem bolt blunder (which I admitted was probably my fault) years of experience have given me enough of a feel for most bolts that I simply go snug to tight. On bikes a standard allen wrench does the job 99% of the time for me and for a head set preload bolt I go to snug while rocking the bike against the front brake feeling for movement in the headset with my opposite hand. Once all play is eliminated I go just a touch more and lock the stem down. Never had any problems. Now if I was using carbon parts (none of my bikes have any carbon), I can assure you I would break out my inch lb torque wrench. I don't trust my feel with carbon. A little common sense goes a long ways lol.

Similar Threads

  1. Torque Wrench
    By bank5 in forum Tooltime
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 04-18-2012, 09:04 AM
  2. Do I need a torque wrench or can I get by without one?
    By tlminh in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 37
    Last Post: 02-11-2012, 09:47 PM
  3. 8mm open-ended wrench for torque wrench
    By sfer1 in forum Tooltime
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 11-22-2011, 10:31 AM
  4. Do you use a torque wrench?
    By circlesuponcircles in forum Ibis
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 09-11-2011, 07:53 AM
  5. Torque wrench?
    By a.brasington in forum Tooltime
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 01-24-2011, 08:12 AM

Members who have read this thread: 5

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2020 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.