Troll and Pugsley Discontinued. LHT next?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Troll and Pugsley Discontinued. LHT next?

    Looks like the Pugs and Troll aren't coming back after the current inventory is sold. Some guy on Reddit had been reading the FAQ on both and he's right, both have been discontinued.

    Maybe they'll replace the Troll with a 27.5" specific frame? As in, for 27.5x2.0-2.5, rather than the 650B+ with 50 mm rims etc. that fit the Ogre, KM, ECR etc. But who knows?

    Why would you discontinue the Pugs though? I mean, standards and availability of parts (hubs especially) caught up with the Pugs, but you'd think there's still a role for it as a wilderness exploration bike, given the front and rear hub interchangeability and the redundancy that entails.

    Maybe they'll leave framesets? A la Cross-Check and Steamroller? There has been a vague rumor on various sites that the LHT will go the same way, with only a frameset option remaining at some stage.

    So change is in the air.

  2. #2
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    Said as much in Reddit, but the obvious answer is that if they're discontinuing a frame, it's probably not selling as well as the other frames. It's hard to imagine that Pugsleys are flying off the shelves and yet Surly decides not to sell any more. That interchangeable front/rear wheel thing was a decent idea when they came out with it and when they wanted a wider front hub anyway to make a sturdier wheel. Made sense at the time to just use a rear hub. But how many people have actually made use of that? Show of hands if you were trapped in the wilderness with a rear hub that broke in exactly the right way that you were still able to use it as a front hub, and fortunately your front hub was able to fill in as the rear?

    Anyhow, we can guess at why a bike isn't selling that well, but I think it's safe to assume it's not selling that well if it's being discontinued. LHT next? Who knows? Maybe someone with a QPB account has more info on how well things sell. LHT certainly has competition within the Surly line from the Disc Trucker most directly. But it wasn't too long ago that it seemed like the LHT was the touring bike to have, in general and especially from Surly. Now the "Touring bike" category has more bikes in it than any other category. Wouldn't surprise me if they did a little more culling from that list.

    Ultimately I feel like there are more Surly models now than ever before, and while we may be having a bit of a cycling resurgence these days for lack of much else to do, 1) It's probably not going to last, 2) Supply issues aren't going to allow for you to make infinite bikes, even if the demand was there. It makes sense to me that they wouldn't be able to keep adding bikes and never subtracting. I expect we'll lose and gain some bikes in the next year, just like always.

  3. #3
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    Some good points. The lineup has *a lot* of overlap and a bit of a cull is not necessarily a bad thing, especially in the current situation of limited supply.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob_E View Post
    Show of hands if you were trapped in the wilderness with a rear hub that broke in exactly the right way that you were still able to use it as a front hub, and fortunately your front hub was able to fill in as the rear?
    Err myself 3 times in 12+ years riding Pugsley`s , sure there are many other owners cranking out off-road miles over the years who who got home on this class idea,
    I from twice having cracked rear hubs seizing the free hubs, then from a seized Alfine 8 speed IGH after immersing it in salt water - The North Sea is a brutal environment to cycle on it's coast and the Pugsley, then Moonlander with better 5" tyre option on 100mm rims proved better, until the introduction of the Pugsley 2.0 that allows these wheels while still on a regular 100mm Fatbike BB (instead of a 120mm BB)...

    You see no other Fatbike offers the option of a cheap Shimano Alfine 8 speed IGH (£150 in Europe) option, only 170mm Rolhoff for the price of a complete used Pugs!,

    Then there is the Single speeders and the unique option to have reversible wheels and different sprockets sizes for different quick tool free wheel swap options....

    Don't tell me there are no one riding them single speed using this option...

    Anyhow rant over!, I got my Pug supplies to last another generation whatever the company move onto next....

    Put it all in writing in a recent blog and pretty much signing out of Fatbike media these days as it moves on as got all I need that works...

    Good luck to others as stuff drys up...

    Wee read; coastrider: The Surly Pugsley...End of production...End of an era...
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by coastkid71 View Post
    Err myself 3 times in 12+ years riding Pugsley`s , sure there are many other owners cranking out off-road miles over the years who who got home on this class idea,

    ...

    Then there is the Single speeders and the unique option to have reversible wheels and different sprockets sizes for different quick tool free wheel swap options....

    Don't tell me there are no one riding them single speed using this option...
    So there's one person. And it sounds like you ride in some extreme environments.
    I am in no way saying that it isn't/wasn't a good idea. Or that no one has ever taken advantage of it to good effect. I am saying that it's been crowed about as a major selling point of the Pugsley, and I'm guessing that it's not saved the ride of a significant number or Pugsley riders. And really there have been some creative solutions to in-the-field mechanical issues that people have had to come up with to keep going no matter what bike they were riding. The Pugsley had a nice, built-in option of swapping wheels, and I'm sure some people took advantage of it, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't have been able to go on if they hadn't had the Pugs. I'm sure that's the case for some people on some rides, but I'm also sure that there are some situations where a different person on a different bike would have found a different solution. I guess we also need a show of hands of other fat bike riders who have had their rides cut short with a situation would have been easily remedied on a Pugsley.

    I can particularly appreciate the single-speed application with multiple gear options of even free wheeling vs. fixed options. It's a nice feature. But it seems like if it were a major selling point, the bike would be selling well, and if the bike were selling well, it wouldn't be discontinued.

    So, again, it was a neat idea at the time, with some interesting applications, but also some seriously niche applications. Now the Pugs sits in between the Plus category that has gained popularity since the release of the Pugsley and the newer, fatter tire, fat bikes. If the features of the Pugsley were a significant selling point, we would likely be saying goodbye to some of those Pugs-adjacent models (which I guess we are with the Troll) rather than seeing the Pugsley retired.

  6. #6
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    The LHT has already been discontinued. From Surly's FAQ section, "Unfortunately we have discontinued the Long Haul Trucker for the time being so it will not be gracing the stage again!"

    Sad to see these models go, but understand the reasoning.

  7. #7
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    Life got in the way for the past several years and I've been absent from here for a long time. I stopped by the Surly web site a few days ago, after not visiting it for 18 months or so, and shock and horror! Both the Pugsley and the Troll are going away!

    I'm still weeping and gnashing my teeth.

    My intention had been to build one or the other of those as a treat to myself for coming back to bikes. Complete with Rohloff hub and the full works. Wilderness exploration, bicycle borne bushcrafting, bikepacking: here I come! Now... I dunno.

    I also see forum threads about Surly losing their mojo. What? Huh? That can't be!

    Time to reevaluate my aspirations here.

    I do have an older Pugsley that I love, and an older Karate Monkey that I've also thoroughly enjoyed. Not to mention my Cross Check; that's been awesome too. And, I even have a spare new CC frame kicking around. I've used and enjoyed all three on tours and bikepacking.

    Maybe this is Mother Nature's way of telling me to get an ECR. If I could find one. Before they stop making those too and switch over to rainbow colored discount carbon bikes that they sell through big box stores.

    Hmm. What to do?
    Spinymouse

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  8. #8
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    I am with coastkid71 on this.
    My Pugs is coming on 10 years and always been singlespeed with the front and rear being interchangeable I just have it set up with a slightly different gearing. But then I am still running Large Marges, nice and tough for out in the middle of nowhere, if a little heavy .
    There is certainly a lot of us out there that use them this way rather than the more trail centre friendly models. Horses for courses but it is a shame to see it go.
    I also have a LHT and a Big Dummy.

    Jamie
    For all my bikes, rides and adventures and mishaps; BLOG: http://theroadlesspedalled.blogspot.com/

  9. #9
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    The Long Haul Trucker is one of the best bike names that has ever been.

    If they are only going to have the disc version, they should just rename it to being the Long Haul Trucker, even if they have to wait a few years for everyone to realise that the only Long Haul Trucker that one can purchase new, is the disc brake version.

  10. #10
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    They refreshed the Pugs only a couple years ago. It must not have been a hit.

    You can look at the Troll and compare it to the BC and see the problem. The BC is what the Troll started as. The Troll now is just too many things and it costs too much because of it and besides the wheel size few want, all the rest of it overlaps with the Ogre.

    Kind of surprised the LHT doesnít at least continue as a frame like the CC, but thatís overlap too.

  11. #11
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    I get the Long Haul Trucker because of the Disc Trucker and Troll because of the overlap with the BC/Troll going away but the Pugsley seems like such a unique bike
    Ragley Big Wig, Sunday Soundwave (BMX), 91 Schwinn High Plain (about town bike), Nashbar CXSS (on trainer)

  12. #12
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    Sad to see the Troll and Pugs being dropped.
    I love my Troll but I guess the industry is always changing and pushing the new whatever for Surly to stay cool.
    Also, the industry is loving the boost hubs and the old standard is just not cool any more.
    Surly is just making sure they stay relevant, make sure they make money (Or pay the bills!) even though I think the general public is pretty fickle and so is the industry I guess.......
    97' Brodie Expresso
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  13. #13
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    How was the Pugs supposed to compete with fat bikes from other manufacturers who consistently changed head and seat angles, CS lengths, dropper compatibility and every other measurement in order to make the fattest, lightest, most down-country but best climbing huckable XC winning fat bike? A Pugs was (is still) great for crawling through messy terrain both frozen and otherwise and is all about being versatile. With the advent of trail grooming (heaven forbid we might have to ride in 4" of new snow) fat bikes are hardly needed.
    "Wait- I am confused" - SDMTB'er

  14. #14
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    I don't think it was designed to compete with any xc trail based fatbikes.
    I think it was designed for the rider who searched out the remote parts of the woods.
    With a rack and pack set up, you could head down the nearest dirt road and find adventure. But at the gerbil-style ride centers that are prevalent today? Not so much.
    Marketing has a lot to do with it. Ride magazines and youboob video reinforced the idea of long, low suspended bikes that loved to satisfy the strava junkies.
    Adventure style riding captured my love for exploring and getting far away from the electronic world. It still resonates with me....and I still own a moonlander and am now looking for a small Pug frame.

  15. #15
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    There's no need to preserve the old fat bike fad from 2003 in amber just like Grant Petersen got stuck in 1989. Lots of the Pugsley's features were bodges that aren't needed any more, because the component market provided wide hubs and cranks and rims. For example, the offset 135 hub at both ends was needed to pass the tire and set the chain line and keep the dish reasonable, because fat bike hubs did not exist, even tandem hubs weren't wide enough. The spare-rear-in-front thing was just a clever side benefit. If Surly can't sell Pugsleys that means there are enough of them sold, and you should be able to find one (like on the FB buy/sell group) if that's exactly what you want. Meanwhile they (and sister Salsa) are making/selling enough models and styles and tire sizes for a reasonable person to have a good selection.

    I'd worry more for them about where they are going next, with that weird reverse mullet gravel bike thing, and whether their cussing-and-drugs marketing is a dead end

  16. #16
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    Ragley Big Wig, Sunday Soundwave (BMX), 91 Schwinn High Plain (about town bike), Nashbar CXSS (on trainer)

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by 93EXCivic View Post
    Interesting read. I expected there to be a something like a Dirty Disco Rat (an all road disc Pack Rat) in the future, but I guess the PR never really managed to escape from the Midnight Special's shadow. Perhaps if it had have had true low trail forks and disc brakes it may have been a cheaper and more available alternative to the Elephant NFE?

    Still, I guess rim brake rims are hard to find in 26" and 650B these days, and yeah, people might howl at me that they are and will remain available, and sure, I get it, they will. But not every shop will stock them, and even in the developing world, long touted as only being friendly to bikes with 26" wheels, the reach of Taiwanese companies like Giant and Merida mean that many village bike shops are now filled with 27.5" MTB disc wheels (in East and SE Asia in particular; I can't speak for Africa or Central and South America).
    Last edited by PDKL45; 1 Week Ago at 10:07 PM.

  18. #18
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    https://surlybikes.com/blog/a_digita...ual_surlyville

    "let it be known that we have sold through most sizes in bikes and frames of the following models: Pack Rat; Long Haul Trucker; Troll; and Pugsley. These arenít planned for reorder, meaning they are discontinued."

    I always thought one of the benefits of the LHT (non-disc version) was the ability to have it S&S coupled, packed in a travel case and NOT have to worry about bending the rotors of a disc brake equipped bike.
    "Ride what you love, love what you ride"

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by jddjirikian View Post
    I always thought one of the benefits of the LHT (non-disc version) was the ability to have it S&S coupled, packed in a travel case and NOT have to worry about bending the rotors of a disc brake equipped bike.
    With 6 bolt rotors in particular, surely you could just remove them, take them in your hand luggage and attach them at your destination?

    It is a concern, but not one that I would allow to influence my choice of bike.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by PDKL45 View Post
    Maybe they'll replace the Troll with a 27.5" specific frame? As in, for 27.5x2.0-2.5, rather than the 650B+ with 50 mm rims etc. that fit the Ogre, KM, ECR etc. But who knows?
    Bridge Club? It's spec'd with 27.5 x 2.4 tires. It'll also accept 27.5x2.8, 26x3.0, 700x47.

    Other than lack of sliding dropouts (which many other Surly models have, if needed), Bridge Club does everything the Troll does and more.

  21. #21
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    The Bridge Club is much simpler than the Troll. Troll had canti studs, more 3-pack mounts on the fork, Rohloff cable mounting and axle details, thru axle option, Bill & Ted trailer hitch, clearance for bigger chain rings. I believe the Ogre also has all the features except for the canti studs. The real argument is if you need all that on one bike.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Lefty View Post
    The Bridge Club is much simpler than the Troll. Troll had canti studs, more 3-pack mounts on the fork, Rohloff cable mounting and axle details, thru axle option, Bill & Ted trailer hitch, clearance for bigger chain rings. I believe the Ogre also has all the features except for the canti studs. The real argument is if you need all that on one bike.
    That was sort of what I meant by the quoted text above, a 27.5 specific bike with all of the features of the Troll/Ogre.

    However, simplicity is appealing at times, and the Bridge Club does have the virtue of reduced complexity, especially in the forks, with fewer mounting points.

    Personally I'd argue that it's a good thing, but it depends on your intended use I guess.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1spd1way View Post
    I don't think it was designed to compete with any xc trail based fatbikes.
    I think it was designed for the rider who searched out the remote parts of the woods.
    With a rack and pack set up, you could head down the nearest dirt road and find adventure. But at the gerbil-style ride centers that are prevalent today? Not so much.
    Marketing has a lot to do with it. Ride magazines and youboob video reinforced the idea of long, low suspended bikes that loved to satisfy the strava junkies.
    Adventure style riding captured my love for exploring and getting far away from the electronic world. It still resonates with me....and I still own a moonlander and am now looking for a small Pug frame.
    Tried to `like` your comment and add Reputation as what you say is true for so many that ride Fatbikes properly in environments where they are needed, be it winter conditions or warmer sand and coastal conditions...
    Pugsley still ticks all the right boxes for so many despite what Forum and Facebook page users say...
    We still ride Pugsley and a Moonlander and will continue to do so for years as they do all that is needed for our coastal cycling...
    Could not care about the fashion Fatbike scene and marketing...

    Probably going to split from MTBR Fatbike Forum soon to be honest despite being one of the original 30 riders who helped get it up and rolling as too many folk putting down the original Pugsley design... and it is just like normal MTB Forum pages these days full of bike tech talk instead of adventure off the beaten track talk...
    plan it...build it....ride it...love it....
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by coastkid71 View Post
    Tried to `like` your comment and add Reputation as what you say is true for so many that ride Fatbikes properly in environments where they are needed, be it winter conditions or warmer sand and coastal conditions...
    Pugsley still ticks all the right boxes for so many despite what Forum and Facebook page users say...
    We still ride Pugsley and a Moonlander and will continue to do so for years as they do all that is needed for our coastal cycling...
    Could not care about the fashion Fatbike scene and marketing...

    Probably going to split from MTBR Fatbike Forum soon to be honest despite being one of the original 30 riders who helped get it up and rolling as too many folk putting down the original Pugsley design... and it is just like normal MTB Forum pages these days full of bike tech talk instead of adventure off the beaten track talk...
    Sure hope you stay around. Your videos were a big part of getting me on a fatty and providing stoke.

    I agree there is a lack of adventure stories.


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  25. #25
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    As sad as it is to see these models go, I would warn everyone that more models from Surly and other brands are likely to get the axe. The industry has always had to balance "the new new" with the realty of having to sell existing inventory. So many brands sold out of everything this year that I expect companies will be cutting poor performing models and replacing them while they have the flexibility and cash to do so.

  26. #26
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    Agree on all above!, It`s all about the Bridge Club and Midnight special these days, nothing new there just 29er/700c builds same as available by every other steel manufacturer, Blog has died, as has videos what ever anyone said before it was different.

    Glad I got a big supply of older Surly stuff in the cave squirrelled away to mix with other manufacturers stuff to keep me cycling the rest of my days going on how long the original Surly stuff has lasted,

    If Surly has turned it's back on the Pugsley, then I`m turning my back on Surly, an icon model I have belted on about for long enough now and I`m just going to enjoy them for what they offer....

    See you later...
    plan it...build it....ride it...love it....
    http://coastkid.blogspot.com/

  27. #27
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    Good grief. Some of you bought into that marketing hook line sinker eh?

    Thereís really not much new from any manufacturer, is there? Whole bike industry is a bit stagnant and the pandemic isnít helping.
    Plenty of old Surlyís out there if thatís what you want. Iím keen on the Lowside at the moment but probably not the best idea with a garage full of bikes.
    Itís all ups and downs. Surly and everyone has been there. Itís not 100% big hits all the time.

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