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Thread: Surly 2019?

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    Surly 2019?

    Frost Bike is coming next month. I wonder what, if anything, Surly has up their sleeve. 27.5 ETs? Updated frame bags to match the slightly changed geometry of some of their bikes?

    Anyone got any leads on anything?

    I keep hoping for a dedicated drop-bar mtn bike but I don't think it's coming.
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    Truthfully Im glad to see they are back on track. A few years ago they were having some supply chain problems an all teh associated financial trouble that comes with it. Surly is too good to lose.
    A garage full of steel frames means happiness.

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    I would still like to see a true 20" Surly BMX....
    " ...the moonlit swamp Krampus is a king among bikes." - geraldooka

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    Quote Originally Posted by dfltroll View Post

    I keep hoping for a dedicated drop-bar mtn bike but I don't think it's coming.
    Surly's Big Fat Pacer

    I don't know what I want from Surly. Rack mounts on the Lowside. That's all. I can't afford the stuff I want in their current product line. They better not be making any new stuff I want. ;-)

    They could bring back that wool jacket, though, so I could continue to not getting around to buying it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob_E View Post
    Surly's Big Fat Pacer


    They could bring back that wool jacket, though, so I could continue to not getting around to buying it.
    ...and all of the anti-Surly people could focus all of their hate on it since they really can't find a legit reason to hate Surly itself
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    Quote Originally Posted by sXeXBMXer View Post
    ...and all of the anti-Surly people could focus all of their hate on it since they really can't find a legit reason to hate Surly itself
    They have a fun marketing persona and they make awesome bikes. What's not to hate?

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    Every year, I wish for the same thing from Surly: longer headtubes, more stack.

    Every year, I'm disappointed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sXeXBMXer View Post
    I would still like to see a true 20" Surly BMX....
    Or 24


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    I've always wanted a Surly BMX, but I suspect the lowside is as close as we'll get.

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    You're not missing much... Crappy zippers, no real insulation, water or wind protection.

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    Quote Originally Posted by racefit View Post
    Or 24


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    Ooo, then they could bring back the 24 fat tire rim.

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    Quote Originally Posted by seat_boy View Post
    Every year, I wish for the same thing from Surly: longer headtubes, more stack.

    Every year, I'm disappointed.
    Yeah, I hear you. Maybe one of these years they'll get it right.
    All good expeditions should be simple in concept, difficult in their execution and satisfying to remember--Alastair Humphreys

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenngineer View Post
    I've always wanted a Surly BMX, but I suspect the lowside is as close as we'll get.
    that is what I am thinking too...
    " ...the moonlit swamp Krampus is a king among bikes." - geraldooka

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    I couldn't be more pleased with their current offerings. I have a Disc Trucker, a Karate Monkey, and an Ice Cream Truck. I love them all for different reasons. I'd love to see a full suspension bike from them someday. I know it doesn't fit their simple and strong philosophy, but there are some bad ass steel full suspension bikes available custom, and I bet Surly could make something authentic enough to their brand that I'd be pleased to ride it.

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    29"x4.8" fat bike
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob_E View Post
    I don't know what I want from Surly. .
    The beautiful things about Surly is they used to bring us awesome stuff we hadn't even conceived of before. Kind of like Apple but without the planned obsolescence. Bikes like the original Karate Monkey. The Pugsley/Moonlander. The Krampus. The Instigator 2.0. My understanding is that the brilliant mind behind all these ideas has left the company and they haven't had a breakthrough since.

    Couple that with their refusal to sell bikes/frames through online vendors and it's hard to see a great future for the brand. If it wasn't for the QBP mothership propping them up I'm sure they would have gone out of business a couple of years ago.

    Believe me, I'm not saying this to be negative and I take no joy in it. I dearly love my Krampus and Pugsley, they are bikes I will own until I die.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jnroyal View Post
    The beautiful things about Surly is they used to bring us awesome stuff we hadn't even conceived of before. Kind of like Apple but without the planned obsolescence. Bikes like the original Karate Monkey. The Pugsley/Moonlander. The Krampus. The Instigator 2.0. My understanding is that the brilliant mind behind all these ideas has left the company and they haven't had a breakthrough since.
    I don't know what timeframe we're talking here, but I love my Troll, and would love a Big Fat Dummy and a Lowside, although the simple ability to take a rear rack would help me want the Lowside more, and the BFD unfortunately strayed from the Extra-cycle standards, and Surly has done little (nothing?) to add back in the functionality back in that was lost by not adhering to that standard. Still, newish bikes that I'd like to have.

    Quote Originally Posted by jnroyal View Post
    Couple that with their refusal to sell bikes/frames through online vendors and it's hard to see a great future for the brand. If it wasn't for the QBP mothership propping them up I'm sure they would have gone out of business a couple of years ago.
    That is a policy I'm not crazy about. When I got my Long Haul Trucker, I asked at the LBS. They said they could order it, but it better be the right size, because it wasn't a brand they carried, and therefore I was stuck with it. I got the impression that selling anything other than the two brands they had on the sales floor didn't interest them much. I thought I could get similar, if not better, service via the mail, and, since all I wanted was a frame, that's what I did. Now I think they blocking even the sale of frames via on-line purchases. Fortunately, in the mean time, I found an LBS that I really like. Got my Troll frame through them and will likely get another bike or frame in the coming year. They are great people and good to work with, and I don't mind giving them my business even though I don't really need their mechanical expertise.

    But that doesn't change the fact that before them, there was no LBS I had much fondness for, and in my youth I lived places where there was no LBS in easy reach. This policy seems to hurt those people all in an effort to prop up an old business model. I want the LBS to survive as a business, forcing customers to conform to your idea of how that business should work does not strike me as good, long-term strategy.

    But to my mind, they still make cool stuff, and I am fortunate to have a local shop that I am happy to buy from (and who, in turn, is happy to sell me Surly stuff), so it's all good on that front with me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jnroyal View Post
    The beautiful things about Surly is they used to bring us awesome stuff we hadn't even conceived of before. Kind of like Apple but without the planned obsolescence. Bikes like the original Karate Monkey. The Pugsley/Moonlander. The Krampus. The Instigator 2.0. My understanding is that the brilliant mind behind all these ideas has left the company and they haven't had a breakthrough since.

    Couple that with their refusal to sell bikes/frames through online vendors and it's hard to see a great future for the brand. If it wasn't for the QBP mothership propping them up I'm sure they would have gone out of business a couple of years ago.

    Believe me, I'm not saying this to be negative and I take no joy in it. I dearly love my Krampus and Pugsley, they are bikes I will own until I die.
    FWIW, Surly didn't truly invent a lot of the things they are famous for but they were crucial in making these ideas easily available and very popular.

    1x1: Singlespeeds existed long before the 1x1, but Surly helped create the huge singlespeed movement with the 1x1 and Singleator

    Pugsley: There were a bunch of custom fat bike builders before the Pugsley, but they were running out of good rims and one asked Surly to help make a new fat rim. Surly did and then decided to follow up with a matching tire and frame, bringing fat bikes to the masses.

    Karate Monkey: 29ers existed before the Karate Monkey but Surly jumped in early, only a year or so after Gary Fisher released the first non-custom 29er, and helped create a lot of momentum for the 29er movement

    They had a good eye for the strange stuff and took risks to try bringing them to the mass market. It is kind of funny that they are a group within one of the largest bike part distributors in the world, but in some ways I respect them more for being as unique as they are from within that environment

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    If we're griping, Surlys no online frame or bike policy is a killer, for me and I think a huge problem for their longer term viability. Virtually every dealer I've ever been to is a non stocking Surly dealer, at best a model or two on the floor, a couple among dozens or a hundred bikes in a big shop.

    All I'm doing is mail ordering my Surlys, from a dealer that usually knows nothing and provides no service, wasting time and money along the way.

    I've got 3 Surlys right now and desperately trying not to pull the trigger on an MS. I love them...but they're distribution model is terrible.

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    I feel like you fat bike guys always want something at Frost Bike but don't get much until Sea Otter. Frost Bike last year was the new Pug but the new ICT came in the middle of summer.

    FWIW the threads here about the Midnight Special and Pack Rat are from Sept 2017, the MS arrived a little later to market.
    Pug 2.0 came out in January
    Lowside was teased in February and released in April
    Bridge Club in March.
    Revised ICT in July.
    If we consider that a cycle... this year was mostly new colors and tweaks to existing models. Feb and Apr still to come. It's bike show season!
    Last edited by Darth Lefty; 4 Weeks Ago at 11:24 PM.

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    I commend Surly for sticking by the LBS model and wish more brands did the same. Maybe Surly isn't doing it for the reasons I think are important, but it's nice to see a brand stick by small businesses that are a part of their communities.

    It sucks for people that want to try the bikes and don't have a shop nearby, but ordering it online wouldn't really change that much, even with a decent return policy.

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    I heard they are bringing a fat, tandem, unicycle to Frostbike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jnroyal View Post
    Couple that with their refusal to sell bikes/frames through online vendors and it's hard to see a great future for the brand. If it wasn't for the QBP mothership propping them up I'm sure they would have gone out of business a couple of years ago.
    I don't understand how that diminishes their future? Wether you click a button at home, or stop into a LBS to place the order, you can get what you want. If your LBS sucks, find a new bike shop.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glenngineer View Post
    If we're griping, Surlys no online frame or bike policy is a killer, for me and I think a huge problem for their longer term viability. Virtually every dealer I've ever been to is a non stocking Surly dealer, at best a model or two on the floor, a couple among dozens or a hundred bikes in a big shop.

    All I'm doing is mail ordering my Surlys, from a dealer that usually knows nothing and provides no service, wasting time and money along the way.

    I've got 3 Surlys right now and desperately trying not to pull the trigger on an MS. I love them...but they're distribution model is terrible.
    Man, you got it rough.

    Quote Originally Posted by sotak View Post
    I commend Surly for sticking by the LBS model and wish more brands did the same. Maybe Surly isn't doing it for the reasons I think are important, but it's nice to see a brand stick by small businesses that are a part of their communities.

    It sucks for people that want to try the bikes and don't have a shop nearby, but ordering it online wouldn't really change that much, even with a decent return policy.
    ^ agreed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jnroyal View Post

    Couple that with their refusal to sell bikes/frames through online vendors and it's hard to see a great future for the brand. If it wasn't for the QBP mothership propping them up I'm sure they would have gone out of business a couple of years ago.
    I'll expand on my thoughts above. In my experience the best bike shops to source a Surly are the ones where a shop dog greets you at the door and there's a little dirt in the corner.

    If you go into a Spec or Trek dealer that's all shiny and looks like a big brand manufacturers showcase, you can expect them to have zero interest in helping you with your Surly order.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenngineer View Post
    If we're griping, Surlys no online frame or bike policy is a killer, for me and I think a huge problem for their longer term viability. Virtually every dealer I've ever been to is a non stocking Surly dealer, at best a model or two on the floor, a couple among dozens or a hundred bikes in a big shop.

    All I'm doing is mail ordering my Surlys, from a dealer that usually knows nothing and provides no service, wasting time and money along the way.

    I've got 3 Surlys right now and desperately trying not to pull the trigger on an MS. I love them...but they're distribution model is terrible.
    I'm with you 100%.

    Quote Originally Posted by sotak View Post
    I commend Surly for sticking by the LBS model and wish more brands did the same. Maybe Surly isn't doing it for the reasons I think are important, but it's nice to see a brand stick by small businesses that are a part of their communities.

    It sucks for people that want to try the bikes and don't have a shop nearby, but ordering it online wouldn't really change that much, even with a decent return policy.
    There's room in the world for both. For me it's not about price, it's about availability. I drive to Santa Fe because Broken Spoke has hundreds of Surlys in stock. I don't want to hear "I can order it," ever.

    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    I'll expand on my thoughts above. In my experience the best bike shops to source a Surly are the ones where a shop dog greets you at the door and there's a little dirt in the corner.

    If you go into a Spec or Trek dealer that's all shiny and looks like a big brand manufacturers showcase, you can expect them to have zero interest in helping you with your Surly order.
    If the future of a brand depends on the bike shops that have dirt in the corner and a dog wandering around, they are doomed. I'm not saying they need to destroy their prices or local shops completely, but when the whole country is sold out of their flagship fat bike two years in a row, they need to open up dealer trade, online inventory, or allow shipping. All they say is that they're sorry they didn't order enough of them from Taiwan, and the production/distribution question is always going to require some forecasting and prediction; that's fair. When that happens, they need to apply a little common sense. 2 years ago, they put ICTs on sale everywhere because they weren't selling. Then last year they sold out before winter in some sizes. Then they came out with a new model this year and it was gone before winter again.

    Sometimes I get the vibe that Surly doesn't really want to sell that many bikes. Perhaps it's just a QBP side project where they want to see if there really are any steel bike enthusiasts left. They don't go on the demo circuit even though their sister brand, Salsa, is at every demo event. Once in a while, they pop up unannounced and do some bikepacking or a blog post, but that's about it. They do not sponsor anyone, their marketing presence is minimal, and they are not the main brand in hardly any bike shop even though they are sold through a distributor that every bike shop can access. There are other companies like this, and many of them do survive. It's just bad management and marketing. This is not a dig on the product at all, for what it's worth. But there's no reason why every Trek, Specialized, Cannondale, and Giant owner shouldn't be aware that Surly makes a competing bike to theirs. You can't sell something if nobody even knows it exists.

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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    I'll expand on my thoughts above. In my experience the best bike shops to source a Surly are the ones where a shop dog greets you at the door and there's a little dirt in the corner.

    If you go into a Spec or Trek dealer that's all shiny and looks like a big brand manufacturers showcase, you can expect them to have zero interest in helping you with your Surly order.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1spd1way View Post
    I heard they are bringing a fat, tandem, unicycle to Frostbike.
    like three separate bikes...or all of those in one bike

    either would not be surprising
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    Quote Originally Posted by twodownzero View Post

    They don't go on the demo circuit even though their sister brand, Salsa, is at every demo event. Once in a while, they pop up unannounced and do some bikepacking or a blog post, but that's about it. They do not sponsor anyone, their marketing presence is minimal, and they are not the main brand in hardly any bike shop even though they are sold through a distributor that every bike shop can access. There are other companies like this, and many of them do survive. It's just bad management and marketing. This is not a dig on the product at all, for what it's worth. But there's no reason why every Trek, Specialized, Cannondale, and Giant owner shouldn't be aware that Surly makes a competing bike to theirs. You can't sell something if nobody even knows it exists.
    And yet theyre still around, their bikes are beloved, and they have the most loyal owners around.


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    JD, maybe a Surly isn't the bike for you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Denver View Post
    Biblical truth...LMAO...sure it is.

    Well I will add my two cents. I hate this bike PURELY because you have to go in and deal with Alpha Male mechanics that could care less about speaking to you unless you have a fat wallet. They don't even let you touch the bike for a test ride unless your willing to buy. And further, most of them don't know shit about their own bikes. Go in and speak to most of them about what the difference is between a Troll and a Bridge Club and they don't have a clue. And god forbid you "one up them" in conversation knowing more about the bike then they do, and they virtually shutdown all conversation with you.

    These bikes are supposed to be the "simple and count on for anything" bike except getting straight answers out of them. Does anyone still know why a Bridge Club is a "classification 3" versus a "classification 2" bike?? No.

    There is nothing "biblical" about a company that cares more about their image than answering questions in honesty and pushing you towards terrible people and service that you can not only not count on, but not count on for honesty either to buy one of their bikes...which isn't including someone truly educated on their own product.

    The company may make great bikes, but their customer support and the front line men you have to deal with in order to find anything out is a complete nightmare. If I could find a bike that is close to my needs in a Troll or Bridge Club with a better reputable company, I would do it in a heartbeat.

    I would tend to think that Surly is actually shooting themselves in the foot more than anything else long term ROI for this alone.

    As I am "still" waiting for an answer from them about why the Troll and Bridge Club is different in classification rating, when one has a 32h spoke setup versus a 36h and is rated to handle more weight. Go figure.

    Sad how shortsighted people really are. I absolutely LOATHE going into a surly dealer in Denver metro to the places I have been. And I sincerely doubt the rest of them are any different. They don't want you to be educated on the bikes...they just want you to break out your wallet. Based on how big that is will dictate how far they will go with you.

    That's not what is best for people or a product long term. Hopefully people see through that bullshit over time rather than loyalty to a product that acts this way with folks.

    And I will buy one of their bikes because you all keep talking about how great they are and the best at the price point. So ultimately, I want a sound machine. But if I had a "choice" on buying the same bike or one close to it from a different manufacturer that I can count on at all angles to get the best product for my needs, then I would buy something different "just" because of these shops you are so proud of. However, if I had one of them build me a custom bike, and they were giving me milk and cookies, stroking my alpha male ego about what looks like the best man cave, then I am sure I would be saying how great these places are too.

    But that's not realistic, practical, or honest.
    hmmm....I had none of those issues when I bought mine. My LBS is a galactic level dealer, or whatever it is called, and I have been going there for bikes since the mid 90's. In fact he told me to wait - back when I bought mine - b/c they were going to be putting them on sale when they were going from OG Krampus to version 2. Through that bike shop, I test rode many other bikes, but the Krampus was the one that won.

    And the last paragraph sort of blows up all of your - what I am assuming is bandwagon hate - since it is the thing to do with Surly. If they are soooo bad, and have made you feel that way, why would you still support them. Why would what we say be a stronger influence than your obvious true knowledge of what Surly is about, the knowledge they lack, and how they are in it just to "Dupe people with fat wallets"

    Sounds like you have a bigger issue in the types that work in your bike shop....not Surly. We have some bike shops like that around here too...but they are pushing Salsa, Santa Cruz, and Pivot. The 1 Surly guy - the guy I go to, is actually a mostly roadie shop...
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Denver View Post

    The company may make great bikes, but their customer support and the front line men you have to deal with in order to find anything out is a complete nightmare. If I could find a bike that is close to my needs in a Troll or Bridge Club with a better reputable company, I would do it in a heartbeat.
    You seem extremely confused about the company (Surly), bike shops, and how the industry works. The employees of any bike shop don't work for Surly. They don't know anyone who works at Surly, and are not required to know a single thing about them.

    The employees work for the bike shop, which just happens to have an account with the parent company, QBP.

    I'll say it again, if your experience with your LBS is so bad, find a better bike shop.

    In the meantime your rambling is distracting from the intended purpose of this thread, 2019 products. If you want to start a different discussion about Surly's training program, start your own thread.
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    John Denver, that's quite a rant.

    I'd spend your creative energy finding a new shop. I've bought several Surlys over the last 20 years from multiple local shops. I've shifted my purchases around, as the level of service/expertise at these shops has changed over the years, as has the "Surly dealer" status. Currently, there's only one local Surly dealer (with 3 locations), but my last experience with them was less than impressive. So, I'm looking for a new Surly dealer to purchase my next Surly frameset. No big deal.

    But back on-topic...I have no idea what 2019 will bring with Surly, but I do like the variety in their current line-up. I thought I'd be building up a new Ogre frameset for my next build, but am now leaning toward an ECR instead. I know it'll be a wider-tired 29" with Alfine 8/XT dynamo hub, Avid BB7s, and various other bits I've already gathered. In the meantime, I've been enjoying my Big Fat Dummy (and sometimes my single-speed Pugsley), while my wife enjoys her Karate Monkey. Our Surly love affair has been a long-term relationship.
    I dig steel-framed bikes of all shapes and sizes.

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    I'd pick up a Karate Monkey or Krampus if Surly went with a simpler dropout system. I don't need or want a bike that is compatible with every standard imaginable.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldHouseMan View Post
    I'd pick up a Karate Monkey or Krampus if Surly went with a simpler dropout system. I don't need or want a bike that is compatible with every standard imaginable.
    There's really nothing complicated about it. You can run the axle all the way forward and never worry about a thing. If you want/need to move the axle back you may or may not need to add a Surly Snug Nut. Really pretty simple.

    It's not proven to be complicated or a hassle.
    Rigid SS 29er
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    Stop asking how much it weighs and just go ride it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    There's really nothing complicated about it. You can run the axle all the way forward and never worry about a thing. If you want/need to move the axle back you may or may not need to add a Surly Snug Nut. Really pretty simple.

    It's not proven to be complicated or a hassle.
    I'm with you... The amount of.grief Surly gets for horizontal drops, particularly the great drop free design they use now, is crazy. Not everyone on a Surly used to be a BMX kid...it scares a lot of people.

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    Jesus.

    So back on topic... There is a picture on Facebook of the Big Easy, what looks to be Surlys new electric Big Dummy.

    I'm good with E cargo bikes, but I hope there is more than that in the pipeline.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Denver View Post

    Want me to prove my point??
    Nope...

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    As the owner of both an instigator 1 and an instigator 2, i would love to see them put out another 'hardcore' ht or full steel FS at a decent price point. Something like a 63* hta 160 29er w/ basic nothing fancy cromo with their dropout system would be rad

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Denver View Post
    Words like "rambling" and "rant" are evil words and only used by Alpha male and evil entities from what I understand to minimize, marginalize, or just be cruel to them. They are not signs of people who have the ability to show or express compassion, understanding, patience, kindness, etc... just an FYI. "If" we are going to bare our hearts and souls here in honesty.
    Dearest John Denver,

    So, my takeaways regarding your continued posts in the Surly forum (and potentially elsewhere) are this:

    1. You chose to drag this thread completely off-topic.
    2. You label people as "alpha male" a lot, it seems.
    3. You're offended by people using the words "rambling" and "rant", and call those assertions evil when consensus could very well be that they are accurate.
    4. Your choice of verbiage throughout suggests you're a "victim mentality" kind of person. I personally used the word "rant" above as a fairly accurate descriptor (and stand by it), yet your assertion about my - or others' - ability to show compassion and/or being alpha males is grossly incorrect, at least in my case.


    You've been seeking a lot of information here on this forum. I'd suggest that you keep threads you don't start yourself on-topic, step off your soapbox of victimhood, and just ask for the facts. If you continue down your current path, I suspect you may be hearing crickets as you seek answers from others around here. Just my $0.02 from someone who's been around the block a few times.

    Sincerely, one of your many alleged alpha males,
    1x1_Speed_Craig



    Quote Originally Posted by Glenngineer View Post
    Jesus.

    So back on topic...
    Thank you! Back to 2019 Surly speculation, rumors, wishes, etc.
    I dig steel-framed bikes of all shapes and sizes.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Denver View Post
    LOL...I am not confused about anything...when every email they send to you while you are contacting them asking them about "anything" ends with:

    "For custom builds and compatibility, we suggest heading to your local Surly dealer for consultation."

    Then they CERTAINLY are a representation of Surly.
    I don't know what you asked them, and haven't seen their full response, but they're not there to help you design every inch of a custom build. That's not what they do. If you have a question about the frame, or the complete bike specs, they will be happy to help you out.

    There's a wealth of knowledge here among the members of MTBR, but nobody is going to want to help you out if you continue to behave the way you are. Since this site mostly deals with mountain bikes, perhaps you're better off joining a touring/bikepacking forum. And if you don't like Surly's business model, there's lots of other bike brands out there. Vote with your wallet.
    Rigid SS 29er
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    Stop asking how much it weighs and just go ride it.

  42. #42
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    From Facebook....
    Surly 2019?-screenshot_20190120-084351.jpg
    Surly 2019?-screenshot_20190120-084405.jpg

  43. #43
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    It's now the end of the world.....^

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    Crazy. Does anyone recognize the motor? Ive actually been daydreaming about an electric, Big Fat Dummy. Im not sure Id want an electric-only bike, but Im definitely curious.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenngineer View Post
    From Facebook....
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Screenshot_20190120-084351.jpg 
Views:	90 
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ID:	1234292
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Cool to see something new like that. As a Big Fat Dummy owner, though, all I have to say is, "That has to be one H-E-A-V-Y motha'!" I can't imagine pedaling that extra weight without the electric assist, which makes me wonder how much of a fitness benefit this bike actually represents.

    I'm keeping it analog with my pig-of-a-manually-powered-BFD.

    Craig
    I dig steel-framed bikes of all shapes and sizes.

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    Interesting. Honestly I don't mind it, (e-Surly), so long as it's on a Utility/cargo bike. That's the right place for it.

    (I hate it when companies give sneak peak info about products on FaceBrag. I'm not on there and have no plans to be, and have to rely on the rumor mill to stay up to speed on stuff.) FB rant over.

    I'm also looking forward to more wild colors, the bland stuff gets old, especially Black. (I know it will never go away, too many people like it. But it's BORING.)
    Rigid SS 29er
    SS 29+
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    SS cyclocross
    Full Sus 29er (Yuck)

    Stop asking how much it weighs and just go ride it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    (I hate it when companies give sneak peak info about products on FaceBrag. I'm not on there and have no plans to be, and have to rely on the rumor mill to stay up to speed on stuff.) FB rant over.

    I'm also looking forward to more wild colors, the bland stuff gets old, especially Black. (I know it will never go away, too many people like it. But it's BORING.)
    I killed my FB account a year ago...no regrets whatsoever.

    And that's Blacktacular to you, pal.
    I dig steel-framed bikes of all shapes and sizes.

  48. #48
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    Any chance the Big Easy is a custom altered BFD? Kinda looks like it might be. It is a steel frame so it can be altered.

    On another note, anyone heard if they're finally going to do a 27.5x2.5 ET? Seems overdue.
    All good expeditions should be simple in concept, difficult in their execution and satisfying to remember--Alastair Humphreys

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfltroll View Post
    Any chance the Big Easy is a custom altered BFD? Kinda looks like it might be. It is a steel frame so it can be altered.

    On another note, anyone heard if they're finally going to do a 27.5x2.5 ET? Seems overdue.
    I was wondering that as well. I don't think it woes actually posted by Surly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by racefit View Post
    And yet theyre still around, their bikes are beloved, and they have the most loyal owners around.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    True! Doesn't mean there wouldn't be more of them if they were better at distribution and marketing.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Denver View Post
    Thanks for the attempt at marginalizing someone else's honest experience. Hence the point in "exactly" what I am talking about in many ways with "alpha male" mentality. Someone takes the time out to put up an "honest" and "forthright" experience around the issues, and your first instinct is to marginalize and tell someone they are wrong.

    I am pretty sure there is an entire #metoo movement for such "Alpha" male style thinking, ranting, experiencing, etc...etc...etc...

    There is "MORE" than enough information in my post for someone with the ability to discern properly and critically think about what is true or not.

    As far as "bandwagon of hate"....kind of says everything about your own ability to discern appropriately, and the "true" filters of the world you view the world with. You might want to take a serious look at that. It's kind of frightening to folks who are spiritually awake.

    I would take honesty over loyalty any day of the week. Don't kid yourself. Too much loyalty to anything is a frightening thing. Especially at the expense of honesty and truth
    funny, cause your rant started out "marginalizing" all of our honest, positive experiences with Surly and our LBs's as "Alpha Male mentality" and searching for something about a man cave (?)...

    always glad to get these kinds of posts to generate some comedy, face palming, and lulz...
    " ...the moonlit swamp Krampus is a king among bikes." - geraldooka

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    I think that big easy post was a legit caught in the wild shot. It looks pretty production ready to my eyes, and it's not a modified dummy - tubeset is pretty different.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ErvSpanks View Post
    5.0 tires
    Surly is discontinuing the Clownshoes. I wouldnt think that they would go beyond Bud and Lou. On the other hand, maybe there is a upgraded or wider version of the Clownshoe in the near future.

    I picked up the latest ICT and am considering building some Clownshoes being that should have been the rim like the original ICT.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surly I Ride View Post
    Surly is discontinuing the Clownshoes. I wouldnt think that they would go beyond Bud and Lou. On the other hand, maybe there is a upgraded or wider version of the Clownshoe in the near future.

    I picked up the latest ICT and am considering building some Clownshoes being that should have been the rim like the original ICT.
    The happy medium seems to be 80mm with rims, and they made the new ICT able to fit 5.0 with only one (now 2ish) on the market. Gotta be a reason for that.

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  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenngineer View Post
    I think that big easy post was a legit caught in the wild shot. It looks pretty production ready to my eyes, and it's not a modified dummy - tubeset is pretty different.
    Missing the telltale swooping top tube, but what about the Big Fat Dummy? Most difference I can spot are between the bottom bracket and rear of the bike, and of course its the bottom bracket that would have had to be modified.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1x1_Speed_Craig View Post
    Cool to see something new like that. As a Big Fat Dummy owner, though, all I have to say is, "That has to be one H-E-A-V-Y motha'!" I can't imagine pedaling that extra weight without the electric assist, which makes me wonder how much of a fitness benefit this bike actually represents.

    I'm keeping it analog with my pig-of-a-manually-powered-BFD.

    Craig
    Not sure about this. Yes, itd be significantly heavier, but on a heavy bike meant for hauling. With that particular set-up, seems like maybe 10 lbs. extra? Nobody wants to carry an extra 10 lbs. around, but I was under the impression that the Big Dummy could handle a lot more than that.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by twodownzero View Post
    I'd love to see a full suspension bike from them someday. I know it doesn't fit their simple and strong philosophy, but there are some bad ass steel full suspension bikes available custom, and I bet Surly could make something authentic enough to their brand that I'd be pleased to ride it.
    ^^^ This. If Surly made a full suspension frame along the lines of a Starling or Cotic I would be all over it. But I don't see that happening.

    Realistically, I see a better chance of them bringing out something like a 29x3.8 Wednesday/Krampus mash up. That would be cool and different.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob_E View Post
    Missing the telltale swooping top tube, but what about the Big Fat Dummy? Most difference I can spot are between the bottom bracket and rear of the bike, and of course its the bottom bracket that would have had to be modified.
    The swoop tube Big Dummys were the gen-1 style...nothing current. That said, it looks more Big Dummy than BFD to me in the rear section, but built around a 29+ platform. I think I spy the bigger BFD-sized seat tube with dropper post cable routing hole, as well. It seems like a bit of a BD/BFD mash-up.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rob_E View Post
    Not sure about this. Yes, itd be significantly heavier, but on a heavy bike meant for hauling. With that particular set-up, seems like maybe 10 lbs. extra? Nobody wants to carry an extra 10 lbs. around, but I was under the impression that the Big Dummy could handle a lot more than that.
    I think 10 extra pounds would be very conservative. I'm guessing considerably more weight with the motor/battery, and likely thicker tubing to support the torque.


    Quote Originally Posted by jnroyal View Post
    ^^^ This. If Surly made a full suspension frame along the lines of a Starling or Cotic I would be all over it. But I don't see that happening.

    Realistically, I see a better chance of them bringing out something like a 29x3.8 Wednesday/Krampus mash up. That would be cool and different.
    I'm biased because I'm a rigid hardtail kind of guy, but a full-suspension seems very "anti-Surly". I guess I may have said the same of an electric cargo bike at one point, however. Touche, I say. Touche.

    Craig
    I dig steel-framed bikes of all shapes and sizes.

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    I don't think we need another wheel size... Full fat, mid fat, 27.5 fat, 29+ (that maxxis dropped), 27.5+, 26+, 29, 27.5, the last vestiges of 26, 700c, 650b, 650b road plus...

    An E dummy makes a ton of sense and we've known for years an updated big dummy with some fat dummy features has been in the works... Could be two bikes, or just the E platform.

    I don't think Surly will go full squish, but it'd be neat if they did. I'm not holding my breath on a BMX either.

    The MS is a cool bike, but I wonder if they want to do something more 'pure gravel,' if such a thing is possible. Big 700c semi knobs, more stack, more slack...

  60. #60
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    A kid bike as adaptable as a Surly MTB would be cool. Can you imagine a kid bike that could be built up like a fat bike with 406 x 3 inch, or like a hybrid with a 451 wheel set, and 1x or single speed, with a rigid fork with bosses but able to take the MRP kid fork...

    No, not expecting it. But I've been thinking of something like this since seeing Sycip's kids' MTBs at NAHBS a few years ago.

    It seems like Soma took a bath on Bart and Lisa but they are road bike format which seems really limiting for size/age range. A long seat tube or slammed seat makes traditional MTB's easier to ride a size off.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Lefty View Post
    A kid bike as adaptable as a Surly MTB would be cool. Can you imagine a kid bike that could be built up like a fat bike with 406 x 3 inch, or like a hybrid with a 451 wheel set, and 1x or single speed, with a rigid fork with bosses but able to take the MRP kid fork...
    A few years back I had suggested they do a kids bike called The Omen. Or maybe the Damien.

    I don't understand why they don't do a women's specific all-road and mountain bike.
    All good expeditions should be simple in concept, difficult in their execution and satisfying to remember--Alastair Humphreys

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    O.T...John Denver = "Add to Ignore List". Too many words, and too much whining. Problem now solved.

    One thing I would like to see from Surly is some support for the non-standardized Big Fat Dummy rear frame section. By breaking away from the Xtracycle standard, it leaves owners needing to fabricate their own accessories. Granted, I can do this myself, but many owners can't. Perhaps with the rumored addition of the Big Easy, which hopefully has the same fore/aft tubing spacing in the rear, Surly accessories may be coming in the future.

    Craig
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  63. #63
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    The Oracle speaks.

    Well, maybe there is something to the report about the Big Easy.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Surly 2019?-img_8497-1-.jpg  

    All good expeditions should be simple in concept, difficult in their execution and satisfying to remember--Alastair Humphreys

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenngineer View Post
    From Facebook....
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Interesting that there's what appears to be an AC Gorilla Monsoon parked next to it. Another Q brand. The comments on the BP IG post are pretty funny.

    https://www.instagram.com/p/Bs8SRvBnSYH/
    All good expeditions should be simple in concept, difficult in their execution and satisfying to remember--Alastair Humphreys

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfltroll View Post
    Well, maybe there is something to the report about the Big Easy.
    Hilarious!
    I dig steel-framed bikes of all shapes and sizes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenngineer View Post
    If we're griping, Surlys no online frame or bike policy is a killer, for me and I think a huge problem for their longer term viability. Virtually every dealer I've ever been to is a non stocking Surly dealer, at best a model or two on the floor, a couple among dozens or a hundred bikes in a big shop.
    I've had no trouble finding someone who was willing to sell me a Surly frame online. Yes they are not supposed to do that, but they want to sell a frame more than they want to obey that rule.
    Safe riding,

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  67. #67
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    NOTE: I removed all of John Denver's Posts in this thread as they all held a general theme of being rude, argumentative and off-topic to a certain extent.

    I took the time to read this entire thread.

    I recommend you put him on your ignore list if you don't want to see more of his posts like that.

    John - If you are reading this, consider it a friendly warning to not be so in the face of everyone here. You joined this site in 2019 and I get the feeling you could even be a sock account that was banned in the past if you come into threads and start being so disruptive from the start. Your anecdotal experience at one Surley dealer in Denver is not some basis of fact or truth that all Surley dealers act the same way. Please do not come on mtbr and preach that your experience is gospel for everyone else to believe and follow just because you said it was true.
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  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    NOTE: I removed all of John Denver's Posts in this thread as they all held a general theme of being rude, argumentative and off-topic to a certain extent.

    I took the time to read this entire thread.

    I recommend you put him on your ignore list if you don't want to see more of his posts like that.

    John - If you are reading this, consider it a friendly warning to not be so in the face of everyone here. You joined this site in 2019 and I get the feeling you could even be a sock account that was banned in the past if you come into threads and start being so disruptive from the start. Your anecdotal experience at one Surley dealer in Denver is not some basis of fact or truth that all Surley dealers act the same way. Please do not come on mtbr and preach that your experience is gospel for everyone else to believe and follow just because you said it was true.
    The Troll was trollin' for a Troll

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    Thanks mod!

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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    I've had no trouble finding someone who was willing to sell me a Surly frame online. Yes they are not supposed to do that, but they want to sell a frame more than they want to obey that rule.
    I've never actually asked...

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by seat_boy View Post
    Every year, I wish for the same thing from Surly: longer headtubes, more stack.

    Every year, I'm disappointed.
    Agree.

  72. #72
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    One thing I've actually been hoping for for a long time is a Surly fender line. Surly is pumping our fat and plus bikes with fender mounts, but there are no full coverage fenders out there that fit, even the 2.5 ETs are too big for just about everything out there. Big O is gone... I'd love some Honjo style fenders to fit, really fit, 29" ET or Knards. I figure it's a cheap product to develop, too - hardware is largely a known quantity, just need to figure out new profiles to form.

  73. #73
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    Glenngineer. That is a good call. Love riding off (and on) road but turning up to work on a morning covered in sh*t is not ideal. Also kills the enjoyment if you get wet and cold on a long day out and still have several hours before you are indoors and having a hot shower.
    Would bite Surly's hand off for a set of 3" or Pugsley fenders

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    I'd like to see a S&S Travel frame on the 27.5 platform. MS, Bridge Club, Pack Rat? I'm not picky.

    Also, probably a technicality, but I think the "no online sales" is QBP thing. Same thing applies to Salsa, All City and Surly.

  75. #75
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    Please keep reporting his posts if they continue to be abusive.
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    One more vote for a line of fenders that works with their ET tires.

    I have 26" ETs on my Crust Evasion and just picked up some SKS fenders that work. I have yet to mount them. At the shop I got them from, one of the employees runs these fenders with 26" ETs on Rabbit Holes on her Troll. The coverage isn't ideal, but also not that bad. Since I'm running an i35 rim, I figure they might offer a little better coverage for me. Sorry I don't have a picture of the set-up.

    these are the fenders:

    https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...s.php?id=64782
    All good expeditions should be simple in concept, difficult in their execution and satisfying to remember--Alastair Humphreys

  77. #77
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    I use SKS Velo 65 Trekking fenders on my Troll with my 26 x 2.5 ETs, and I feel like they provide decent coverage. I did have to spring for the "optional" set of fender stays because the rear fender liked to bounce off the wheel and front fender liked to abandon ship when I wasn't looking. Looks like they might now be called the Velo 65 Mountain. https://www.sks-germany.com/en/produ...o-65-mountain/ Says they're good up to 2.35" but they seem fine for my ETs, or at least it'n a good compromise since I switch between 2.15 and 2.5 fairly often. Looks like SKS has a wider set, too, that I might investigate: https://www.sks-germany.com/en/products/bluemels-75-u/
    Curiously that page doesn't specify 26, 27.5, or 29 for the Bluemels.

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry66 View Post
    Also, probably a technicality, but I think the "no online sales" is QBP thing. Same thing applies to Salsa, All City and Surly.
    Sorta. I ordered my Salsa online from REI for pick-up at the local store.

    I think it brightened up their day, an orange frame in a store full of charcoal and brown-green bikes.

  79. #79
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    Surly 2019?-k-fenders.jpg

    I'd like some full coverage 29+ fenders for my Krampus. I put this ^^ together with Mudhuggers and it works okay, but obviously less protection than full fenders.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Lefty View Post
    Sorta. I ordered my Salsa online from REI for pick-up at the local store.

    I think it brightened up their day, an orange frame in a store full of charcoal and brown-green bikes.
    Yeah, that is as close as you can get. They wouldn't ship to your house though!

    What Salsa did you get? I have a Vaya and a Timberjack. Had my Vaya since late 2011. Best all around bike I've ever owned.

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry66 View Post
    Yeah, that is as close as you can get. They wouldn't ship to your house though!
    Also they have to offer it on the website, which is not indicative of everything available. I'm sure they could get a Surly in, for instance, but you can't just buy on-line and pick it up because if you search Surly on their store, it redirects you to the Salsa bikes that they do advertise.

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry66 View Post
    Yeah, that is as close as you can get. They wouldn't ship to your house though!

    What Salsa did you get? I have a Vaya and a Timberjack. Had my Vaya since late 2011. Best all around bike I've ever owned.
    Any excuse to post a pic of a bike, right?

    Surly 2019?-6556b114_5d33_4d77_ad57_a23d99ff5482_ba39bbf16a8720d1fed9c44e2d1d210d4e5088d0.jpg

  83. #83
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    It will never happen but how about resurrecting the Moonlander?

  84. #84
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    I was just wondering if a moonlander would fit in the space between ICT, Pugs and BFD. I was surprised the pugs came back in its current form... A 5" tire version of the current pugs would be a tricky bike... But I don't think Surly thinks about their product portfolio in terms of share, more in terms of stuffing it full, so you never know.

  85. #85
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    Surly use to update a blog on their landing page about once a week. It has been almost 2 months.

    Odd to skip Xmas and New Years without anything.

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronhextall View Post
    Surly use to update a blog on their landing page about once a week. It has been almost 2 months.

    Odd to skip Xmas and New Years without anything.
    They haven't updated the image dump pages in months.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
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  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronhextall View Post
    Surly use to update a blog on their landing page about once a week. It has been almost 2 months.

    Odd to skip Xmas and New Years without anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by ErvSpanks View Post
    They haven't updated the image dump pages in months.
    Nor have they released any YouTube videos since the Lowside & Bridge Club videos 9 months ago.
    I dig steel-framed bikes of all shapes and sizes.

  88. #88
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    Someone over there is hardcore slacking!

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  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenngineer View Post
    I was just wondering if a moonlander would fit in the space between ICT, Pugs and BFD. I was surprised the pugs came back in its current form... A 5" tire version of the current pugs would be a tricky bike... But I don't think Surly thinks about their product portfolio in terms of share, more in terms of stuffing it full, so you never know.
    Im pretty sure the new Pugs will take Bud and Lou.


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  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by racefit View Post
    Im pretty sure the new Pugs will take Bud and Lou.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    I was all fired up to refute that, but you're half right... Frame will take a 4.8 with the wheel back, per Surly. Fork takes a 4.3, but that's an easy swap to go full fatty front and rear.

  91. #91
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    90% sure if they announce a unicycle I will buy it, unless delivery is a year or more out

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by ETChipotle View Post
    90% sure if they announce a unicycle I will buy it, unless delivery is a year or more out
    Only if it will fit a 5" tire!

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  93. #93
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    I wish the 29" Knard would be updated to tubeless ready and had some transition knobs in the tread....

  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by ErvSpanks View Post
    Only if it will fit a 5" tire!

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
    Yeah I don't really know yet what size tire I want, I might want a Clown Shoe but I'm just learning to ride so I don't know.

  95. #95
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    I'd been debating starting a WTF Surly? thread, as I've seen such a marked departure from their "old" ways.

    Not sure which *talent* at Surly was being referred to as having left, but I know Eric Sovern (Sov) left, and that really seemed to take the wind outta the sails. I've no idea if he was the driving force behind much of the product development, but yes, the blog has gone to hell, they're discontinuing pretty much every tire they make, stock of cranks, and other small parts for them is zip, and they seem to have fallen off the tracks as far as doing anything.

    No disrespect (and I actually own an eMoonie) but seriously? That's the big development for 2019? "We bolted an e kit onto a Big Dummy"?

    As someone who's been selling Surly since 2004, and was the first shop in the region to have a Pug in house that year too, I'm seriously disappointed, and I mean that in the way that a loving parent, admonishes a child that has really screwed up.

    I wish there were someone "we" could get straight answers from, as industry folks, at least. I've seen Q in general, really slacking too. Products that used to be stocked in a ton of colors, now, it's all black, or whatever dark, bland color they can stock. Brands that used to be stocked heavily, are now not being restocked. Heller? Nothing in stock, just for example. Add to that, all the changes at Surly, and I really wonder if they are simply feeling the pinch of on line retailing, and are simply pulling back, regrouping, and going into only basic, simple, low stock count, and hope, mode.

    As for 2019?

    Yes, let's bring on the next generation Bud and Lou. Maybe counter Maxxis's tone deaf maneuver, and double down with some updated or new 29x3 tire stock. 29 FAT? Hell yes please.

    Dear Surly, you have the ability to be a leader like you used to be, realize that playing it safe, will only lose you customers, even if you wiff it now and again.

    Signed, a one man shop owner with dust (hell, dirt) in the corners and a dog (sniff, just one now) who greets you at the door.

    P.S. John Denver man, get a new bike shop, full stop. You really sound like you need to ride more, and analyze less. Hugs and kisses, from a decidedly non alpha, male.
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

    - FrostyStruthers



    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

  96. #96
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    I road Tuscobia last month in Wisconsin. I must say Salsa seemed to the most popular bike brand. I have an ICT OPS from the great sale of 2015, great bike for me. I have beat the hell out of it and steel seems to suit me. I would worry like an old lady about a beautiful Carbon Fatbike but some of those Salsa's look so sweet.

    I do think Surly is a little overpriced for as heavy a bike as they sell. I think they should take an ICT and dig into the QBP parts bin and see what they could come up with for general sale. Yes, I know you could build up your own frame but Joe Average typically has a bigger checkbook than a tool box with the knowledge to back it up. Most people want to buy a bike and ride it, they don't want a project.

    Not having a clear coat doesn't do them any favors in passive marketing. On group rides and bar hoping rides my ICT always looks like the ugly step child, it looks like hell 2 minutes after you wash it. It doesn't particularly bother me (its about where I have been and where I am going) but it does have an effect on people looking at bikes that might be potential buyers.

    All my Surly markings have fallen off or disfigured to the point of looking like nothing. Most people have no idea it is a Surly by looking at it, so if they liked it they wouldn't even know what they were liking. Maybe they could laser engrave the frame with Surly markings instead of stickers?

    I would love to buy a Midnight Express, load it up with gear and take off for a couple weeks.

  97. #97
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    Much respect MCS. ^^^ Give your dog a scratch on the head for me.
    All mountain bikes are all-mountain bikes.

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by twodownzero View Post
    I'd love to see a full suspension bike from them someday.
    They got one step closer, the Karate Monkey has a suspension fork. They also added a dropper post.

  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronhextall View Post
    I road Tuscobia last month in Wisconsin.
    I would love to buy a Midnight Express, load it up with gear and take off for a couple weeks.
    I know of a new custom build Midnight Special in Madison, WI with electric blue paint and Shimano components.

  100. #100
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    One thing that is new for 2019 is the website:

    https://surlybikes.com/

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