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  1. #1
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    Enduro 29er linkage.

    So I got my hands on a an Enduro 650b shock clevis, comparing it to my Enduro 29er one it is around 6mm shorter. Once its installed the BB drops to around 338mm (stock is 351 and I measured mine at 352mm so 13/14mm drop) and the HA is knocked down to 66.5 degrees (1 degree slacker than stock). I am still to ride it and won't get a chance to until tomorrow evening, but having spent the last two seasons riding Enduro 29ers I think this will suit me well, it will make it more stable at speed and a little more composed when things get very steep.

    All my measurements were fairly rough with a tape measure and an angle finder app but won't be too far off.

    I decided to give it a go after I was told by the Specialized racing guys that Anneke Beerten was running that setup at the EWS in Rotorua. I have checked the tyre clearance and on my size large it is still fine at bottom out, I probably still have 10mm or so to spare before the tyre hits the seat tube.

  2. #2
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    I'm very curious to here your thought's on how the E29 rides (climbs) in the slacker mode you put it in?

  3. #3
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    Funny that this thread pops up right now. I rode a really, really steep and gnarly track today on my 26" 2014 Carbon Enduro.
    I have a Monarch plus on there and usually ride it with 35% sag, but put a bit more air in today and rode it with around 28%.
    And the bike did feel a bit steep. So I thought about putting an offset-bushing on the forward shockmount.
    Would basically do something similar to a shorter link, right?

    The 2014 26" Enduro is a bit of an oddity. It uses a 216x57mm shock and has a similar linkage to the 29er Enduro. The 2013 looked the same, but the linkage was a bit different and it used a 63mm stroke shock.

    I guess a 216x63mm shock would work on the 26" 2014 as well, there´s quite a bit of room at full compression left with the 57mm stroke shock.

    So far I´ve just run the Monarch Plus Debonair with more volume spac

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by acfsportsfan View Post
    I'm very curious to here your thought's on how the E29 rides (climbs) in the slacker mode you put it in?
    I rode it home last night up a hill, not too bad really. I need to readjust me seat as it was getting me in the taint and it is a bit further back for sure but I run a Reverb with the seat quite far forward anyway so i is still acceptable. Down the hill this morning I get to ride a few corners of a DH track, not enough to make a real judgement but it felt good, who knows if it was in my head or not. Hoping to get out for a few runs of the gondola this afternoon (I live in Queenstown)

  5. #5
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    I am curious to hear your thoughts about this, as I considered doing it to mine. I'm a little skeptical of lowering the bottom bracket though, as I find it already sits low enough for me. I also never find the handling particularly twitchy.
    The enduro 29er is interesting because when I sit and climb on it, the angles feel kinda steep, and like it should be less stable feeling going down steep chutes than it winds up actually feeling. So maybe I don't want to mess around with it after all.
    I'm still curious what it would feel like with the moded link setup though.

  6. #6
    JCL
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    I've been running the 650b shock extension for a few months.

    If you ride rowdy steep trails or you race Enduro then go for it. If you want the bike to still climb great, have the low speed manoeuvrability it does and have good pedalling clearance then leave it alone.

    The link adds stability when/if you really smash it but the bike looses a lot of that unique trail-bike-on-crack ability.

  7. #7
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    Thanks for the feedback.
    Think I'll leave mine alone.

  8. #8
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    Just took it for a run of the lift access DH here, it feels like a mini 29er DH bike. I still need to ride it a bit more but I feel like it turns the bike into a 29er version of something like the Nomad, very low BB and very slack HA for a trail bike but if you have the terrain and the skills to ride steep DH tracks on your trail bike then these bikes are great.

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    Took it for a decent ride yesterday, didn't feel like the climbing was done in that much at all, what did suffer a little bit was the maneuverability at low speed on the flat, but to be honest I can deal with that for the increased performance on descending. The pedals are lower, but still higher than a Nomad so still pedalable, you do have to be a bit more carefull with your pedal strokes when riding up rocky climbs but it is something that I am willing to live with. I actually felt the the climbing was improved in certain circumstances as the BB drop is greater so you are less likely to tip over the back. The mod will also very marginally lengthen the chainstay which may have helped with this, it's something I certainly wasn't expecting but either I was climbing very well yesterday or it is there.

  10. #10
    JCL
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    Good points but the degree reduction in seat angle easily negates the BB drop/lower instant centre position change.

    Change it back in a couple weeks. I bet you'll be amazed how much better it climbs seated tech.

  11. #11
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    Possibly, I do run a reverb (so 0 offset) and have my seat fairly far forward, but I am willing to accept that the climbing has been done in a bit more than I felt. I had to change back already since the link was just borrowed but I will be ordering one from Specialized.
    The only times I felt like the climbing was improved was standing efforts to get up small pinches. In that instance the BB drop and rear center increase might have made a difference, or I may have been imagining things...

  12. #12
    JCL
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    Maybe. To me I could really feel the seat angle. Running much further into the shock stroke etc.

  13. #13
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    Do you still run the command post or are you on something with a zero offset? I am also on a large but only 5'11" tall so probably not running the seat as high as some people on this bike, thus making the actual seat angle a bit steeper.

  14. #14
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    Does anybody know exactly what changes to geometry happen with the 650b yoke installed on the Enduro 29er?
    I noticed the slacker head angle, noticed zero difference in seat tube angle and position, feels like the chainstays got shorter to me, but the wheelbase longer, feels like the rear wheel is more tucked under me. Noticed the lower BB.
    In riding, better to me in just about every way. Stupid stable, like a freight train, yet feels even more playful. Manuals like crazy. Climbs better. Feel more inside the bike. In this configuration it likes to be full gas all the time. Crazy braking traction, likes to be flung through the corners. The only downside to me, was a few more pedal strikes, and I felt like on sweeping open corners the front end pushed a little bit. I adjusted to this by adjusting my body position and by backing off on my forks compression a bit. I've just been on the E29 in the stock configuration for so long, I think I just need to adjust to this. But I like it.....a lot. I just bought a brand new crankset in 175mm, wish I would have got 170s to compensate for lower BB. Oh well.
    Super, super fun.

  15. #15
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    Did any of you have to make changes to your shock setups? I love the new geo but my shock feels quite a bit different and has me re tuning it...

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by atekt View Post
    Did any of you have to make changes to your shock setups? I love the new geo but my shock feels quite a bit different and has me re tuning it...
    I found the travel to be more linear. So I added volume spacers and upped the pressure a tad.

  17. #17
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    Can somebody measure how much longer the wheelbase is with the yoke?

    @Floor Tom: What tires are you running?

    Does anybody have a parts number and, possibly, a price for the yoke?

  18. #18
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    This seems like an interesting idea. Could someone post some photos of the bike with the new clevis? Both the clevis and the a side photo to see the slacker angle? Also with what tire is tge the 10mm clearance measured?

  19. #19
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    Are there any updates on this?

  20. #20
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    Interesting idea. How much was the 650b shock clevis alone?

  21. #21
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    I have been loving my E29 set up with the 650b yoke. It makes the geo that much more dialed. Everything about the bikes handling is improved with this mod. The only super super minor drawback I've found, is I get a few more pedal strikes here and there. Granted I run large platform pedals and 175mm cranks. Its less of an issue when I run 2.4 Onza Ibex tires vs the 2.3 Butcher/Slaughter combo. I think it just flat out makes a rad bike even radder. I'm not sure why Specialized doesn't make this the stock set up.

  22. #22
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    Which part of the yoke is 6mm shorter? Is it the part that comments to the shock or the part that connects to the rest of the linkage?

    Also did you had any clearance issues?

  23. #23
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    I had zero clearance issues.
    I don't know what part is shorter.

  24. #24
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    Where can I buy an Enduro 650b shock clevis?

  25. #25
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    Your Specialized dealer should be able to order it for you.

  26. #26
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    Can you post some photos before and after?

  27. #27
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    Can any of you tell me where you purchased the part and what it cost you?

  28. #28
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    Specialized dealer, about $60

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vanguard View Post
    Specialized dealer, about $60
    I live in Brazil , do you know some store in USA I can make a order by webstore? regards

  30. #30
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    So i bought and installed a 650 shock extension ( $30 part from Specialized) on my medium 2015 Enduro 29. i really like the slacker head angle and lower bb. Makes this bike so much more stable on rowdy dh tracks and feels a lot safer when i am nuking down the trail. But... i am having an issue at close to bottom out. At close to bottom out the rear triangle is hitting the seat tube. Anyone else had this issue? i heard it hit once and rode lightly and tried to keep from bottoming out the rest of the way down. i was going to have a bike shop buddy take a look and see if there is a way to either 1. add all the volume spacers in my cane creek inline and increase the pressure in the shock ( hopefully it wont get to harsh) or 2. see if i can limit some of the travel or maybe a smaller shock stroke might fix the problem. Just wondering for those that have put a 650b shock extension on your E29 if anyone has come across with the same issue?? Tom i see you have the large e29 but i dont think that would matter since the rear triangles are the same? any suggestions or help would be greatly appreciated as now i really dont want to go back with the stock shock extension if i can some how make this work. thanks!

  31. #31
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    Man, that's a bummer. I was just getting ready to pull the trigger on one for my xl frame. I bet the bike rails with the geometry change. Keep us posted on if you find a solution

  32. #32
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    The rear triangle maybe the same but the front isn't. That means that the potential contact spot between the front and rear triangle could be different as you move from a medium to a large or to a xl size because the length of the tubes is different and also the bending points.

    It would be great however if we could see both the medium and large size fully deflated and pushed down to check the clearance differences if any.

  33. #33
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    I have a large Enduro 29 with no problems with the 650b link. Just to see whats going on, take all the air out of your shock and compress the bike fully. And see how much its contacting. It would seem to me the rear tire would hit first way before the rear triangle. Are you sure your just not bottoming out just the shock? The reason I say that is when I made the switch, I had to add a total of three spacers in the inline, up the compression, and up the air pressure. The 650b link makes the suspension path a little more linear. Before I did those things I was bottoming out the shock like crazy, and it sounds like contact is being made, but that is not the case.

  34. #34
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    i will look at it a little more later. it's basically the brace between the rear triangle that is in front of the tire that is touching the seat post when the shock is close to full travel.
    i dont think its the shock bottoming out bc the shock o ring is not bottomed. but again, i will look again later this afternoon. thanks for your response

  35. #35
    JCL
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    The guys I know who have had issues have been on large frames. My medium clears with 3mm clearance. If you're getting contact get it off quick and run a offset bushing instead. It'll only give you half the geo change but at least you won't crack your seat tube.

  36. #36
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    cool i will report back after i have a friend look at it. its barely touching but yes i know i don't want to crack the seat tube. what is the offset bushing you speak of? i don't think i know what that is.

  37. #37
    JCL
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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones 101 View Post
    i will look at it a little more later. it's basically the brace between the rear triangle that is in front of the tire that is touching the seat post when the shock is close to full travel.
    i dont think its the shock bottoming out bc the shock o ring is not bottomed. but again, i will look again later this afternoon. thanks for your response
    On the Enduro 29er the O ring never bottoms out fully on the shock. The Shocks shaft is longer than its actual stroke.

  39. #39
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    so.... I was able to put all the shock volume spacers in the inline and it seems to be clear now by a hair. I would say with all the air out of the shock it has about 3mm of clearance. I haven't had time to try it on the trail but jumping r off a stair set it didn't touch the seat tube. I will let u know after riding tomorrow whether I have solved the issue. Thanks for everyone assistance. Shred on!

  40. #40
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    I added the 650b extension to my medium 14 S-works. There is a couple of millimeters clearance between the seat tube and the brace at full compression. Note that the oring does not bottom out on my Cane creek so you can not use that as a gauge. The linkage has transformed the bike! I have actually been setting some new PR's on descents even with the super loose and dusty conditions. The only negative I have noticed is a few more pedal strikes but I'll take those in exchange for the way the bike now rails berms and for how much more stable the bike feels now at higher speeds. I am going to have to get some air volume spacers to add to the shock though. I've got 2 tokens in the pike and it feels really good now but the rear shock is blowing through the travel pretty quickly. Overall I'm super happy with the linkage. For me it feels the way the bike should have from the factory.

  41. #41
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    So after the change the E29 goes down much better but how does it perform overall? I mean how does it pedal uphill or how does it preform in tight trails with many turns?

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by gpgalanis View Post
    So after the change the E29 goes down much better but how does it perform overall? I mean how does it pedal uphill or how does it preform in tight trails with many turns?
    For me and the riding I do I haven't found any downside. I've only ridden it this way for a little over a week so it's far from a comprehensive review. I've climbed around 10k ft with it and for everything I've done it's been great but most of the climbing has been fire road or easy single track climbing. Some of the slightly more tech climbing I've done has been good but that has been limited. As for tight trails I couldn't tell you. Most of our riding here is easier climbing up and then more open and flowy mountain descents so I have not taken the bike on any tight twisties.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by gpgalanis View Post
    So after the change the E29 goes down much better but how does it perform overall? I mean how does it pedal uphill or how does it preform in tight trails with many turns?
    To me better in everyway, in every condition. It rewards a bit more of an aggressive riding style, and you have to get over the front a little more. But i think it climbs technical trails better, handles tight stuff better, just flat out works better.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Znarf View Post
    The 2014 26" Enduro is a bit of an oddity. It uses a 216x57mm shock and has a similar linkage to the 29er Enduro. The 2013 looked the same, but the linkage was a bit different and it used a 63mm stroke shock.

    I guess a 216x63mm shock would work on the 26" 2014 as well, there´s quite a bit of room at full compression left with the 57mm stroke shock.
    I have a 14 E26. I bought a second hand Monarch Plus RC3 from someone on the same bike. However it's the 63mm version so it's giving me 190mm of rear travel. Safe to say that it's hard to balance the Pike at the front!

  45. #45
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    Is anyone running a ccdb with this linkage change. How do you like it?

  46. #46
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    So....... after further testing and trial and error i figured out why i had issues with the rear triangle brace hitting the seattube. The stock cane creek inline comes with a 2.5 stroke while the bike is suppose to have a 2.25 stroke shock. So after putting on the new shorter 650b link and taking all the pressure out of the cane creek inline i would have 3 mm or so of clearance but with a lot of pressure i could push the 3 mm clearance and make the seat tube touch the rear triangle brace. So after researching i figured out cane creek put a rubber bushing in to limit the shock stroke down from 2.5 to 2.25. I ran my cane creek pretty low pressure to get all the travel and had hard bottom out jumping at bike parks where i could smash the rubber bushing enough to get the rear triangle to barely hit the seat tube. So first i put in all the volume spacers and ran the cane creek inline shock with more pressure than i prefer. But this limited the travel a little and kept the rear triangle brace from striking the seat tube. I just purchased a new monarch plus debonair that is a 2.25 stroke and i can now run the pressure as low as i want with the rear triangle brace not hitting the seat tube. The shock basically stops at the 3mm clearance mark and now i dont have to worry about breaking my frame or riding my suspension stiff and harsh. I am very happy with how i finally got it set up. wish it wouldn't have taken so long to sort it all out but again i am stoked with it.Enduro 29er linkage.-img_0405.jpg

  47. #47
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    Can you post a photo with the shock fully compressed in order to see the clearance?

  48. #48
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    I ordered mine from my dealer and turns out they are back ordered until September. Anyone have one they ended up not using?

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by hobdog31 View Post
    Is anyone running a ccdb with this linkage change. How do you like it?
    I have the ccdb cs on my bike. I like it a lot with the 650 extension. I did have problems with the shock being less progressive. So far I have added one and a half complete air spacer strips on top of what came stock with the bike and it feels pretty balanced with the two tokens I have in the Pike. I'm 160 lbs, don't jump much and am not super fast so it make me wonder how well the extension would work for more aggressive riders.

  50. #50
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    I had just one ride in a super tech and tight trail,on downhills it feels much better with new shorter 650b link I had any issues about hitting the frame or ground ,on climbs still very good!

  51. #51
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    Here are a few pics of my size Medium 29er with the 650b link and the shock fully compressed (all air taken out). Haven't ridden it yet, but can't wait!
    Enduro 29er linkage.-img_4427.jpg

    Enduro 29er linkage.-img_4431.jpg

    Enduro 29er linkage.-img_4429.jpg

    Enduro 29er linkage.-img_4430.jpg

  52. #52
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    Great pics! Thank you. We will wait for a rode report as well.

  53. #53
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    I'm also looking for one of these magical 650b links. My dealer just told me that Specialized won't get another batch until January! Anyone got one for sale or have another source? Who's hoarding?!?! I've got an offset bushing for the E29 if anyone wants to trade up plus some cash.

  54. #54
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    Ride update:
    Had a chance over the past couple of days to do two rides with the new link. The first ride was in Santa Teresa Park in San Jose. I rode up two very technical trails (Stiles and Rocky Ridge). Both have tight turns, are very loose and full of jagged rocks. The bike performed very well up these climbs. I had one "dab" up Rocky Ridge which for other Bay Area locals you know what a chore it is to ride up this beast. Definitely had a few 'extra' pedal strikes. I really attribute this to being used to the higher bottom bracket. In my opinion the bike climbed just as well with the 650b link as with the original 29er one. I then went down both of these trails and the bike felt almost identical. The thing to note is that these trails are neither very steep nor do they have any substantial turns beyond some switch backs at the end of Stiles.

    Today I went on my second ride with the 650b link at UCSC. Bike climbed very well all ride and felt awesome on the downhills. Had a chance to try it out on some fairly steep technical sections (chupacabra) as well as some fast, jump-filled runs (sweetness & lower magic). I'm pretty happy with the new setup.

    While nothing special, here's a link to today's ride for context:
    https://www.strava.com/activities/391735433

  55. #55
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    Does anyone use an offset bushing instead?

  56. #56
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    Yes. Great bank for your buck angle reduction. I definitely notice more stability in loose corners.

  57. #57
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    Did you order them from a specific site or manufacturer? How many mm was the offset and what was the angle change? Thank you in advance.

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    Ordered it from Tyler at Twenty6 Products - Home. You'll have to call or email him to see if he has any. I think he just did a few for shits a giggles.

    Don't know how many mm, but it's the maximum amount you could move it and still have material left on the bushing. I'd guess 2-3mm maybe? Didn't measure the angle change, but others have said 0.5deg on this thread I believe.

  59. #59
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    I was told by specialized uk that fitting the 650b link would void my warranty :-(

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie_MTB View Post
    I was told by specialized uk that fitting the 650b link would void my warranty :-(
    What did you expect them to say? If you use it make sure to keep the stock also available in order to put it back if something happens.

    My main concern with the linkage change is that it may change the actual performance since the shock will be working outside its supposed path even if it is minimal.

  61. #61
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    any more long term updateds on how are you guys getting along with the slacked out monster truck, my europe dealer says they are still not having them in stock so lets see if in january they will. till then if you guys can post some more feedback and some pic would be greatly appreciated form us other geeks .
    Last edited by paparotus; 11-24-2015 at 05:57 AM.

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    Quick update after having a dozen rides or so.

    BB height -- I'm 5'09" and one of my biggest challenges with the Enduro is/was just how big or high the bike feels. So dropping the BB a bit made a nice change in the overall ride height. I noticed a couple of extra pedal strikes on the first ride but since then, after getting used to it, almost zero.

    Head Angle -- On the downhills the slackened head angle is great. The bike feels even more confident particularly on steeper, bumpier terrain. On flatter more cross country style single track trails where you're weaving in and out of trees popping over roots and smaller rocks, I find the steering to be less precise. I also find that these trails require more energy in terms of pedaling than before.

    Summary -- If you're all about the downhill and going down as fast as possible, this change is a no brainer in my opinion. If you're a guy/gal who bought the Enduro as a "do-everything bike" I'd say it's a tough call. But as long as we're geeking it out, it's worth trying. If you're keeping track of all your climbs on Strava and on the more Cross country side of things, this isn't the change for you.

  63. #63
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    What Fassn8 mentioned makes total sense. Personally I would prefer the Enduro 29 to be slacker but I think that with the given design it may create an unbalanced bicycle due to the already short rear end.

    Personally and because I couldn't really weight the front as much as I wanted I changed to a longer stem and a bar with minimum rise and I feel more balanced overall.

    But I am sure that for more DH orientated riders this is a good choice.

  64. #64
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    It doesn't seem like it would be hard to swap it out. If you hit bike parks and all mountain trails a lot maybe having both linkages would be beneficial for swapping between them.

  65. #65
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    It is still the best way to run this bike. The 650B linkage makes this bike shine in everyway. I would never swap it back.

  66. #66
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    So can you get the link from somewhere other than a spec dealer? If we have to order through spec, doesn't that leave a paper trail for warranty concerns? My buddy wants to try this, but I don't want to smoke his warranty.

  67. #67
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    Buying a link doesn't mean it was used. Perhaps you ordered the "wrong part". Just saying.

  68. #68
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    Hmm, if it were mine I would take the shot, but I'm not gonna gamble with his money. After dealing with warranty issues, if there is any discrepancy for a way out, most companies will take it IME. That said, Spec have been very good with warranty issues I've dealt with. Wonder if they keep track of that stuff as far as warranty claims.

  69. #69
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    Can anyone help me with some clevis measurements?

    I ride a 2014 Enduro Comp 29, size large. Recently ordered and received a 650b shock clevis as per this thread to slacken the bike a bit. Unbolted the standard 29er one and intended to fit the 650b one, but when I put them side by side they're identical! I wonder if my Specialized dealer has ordered the wrong one...

    Could folks measure their 29" and 650b shock clevises and post up the measurements? Maybe measure the overall end-to-end length?

    I want to go 'armed' with info if I'm going back to my dealer saying you've sold me the wrong thing!

    Cheers.

  70. #70
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    Just check the photo in post 51. They are obviously different in size so most probably you got the wrong one.

  71. #71
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    Thanks, I already saw Fasnn8's photo of them side by side, just keen to have the physical measurements so that I know 100% they've sold me the wrong one.

    For obvious reasons I've not told the dealer that I'm trying to fit a 650b clevis to a 29er frame...

  72. #72
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    Did you give your bicycle details, serial number etc? Because most probably he ordered the wrong one.

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by a11y View Post
    Thanks, I already saw Fasnn8's photo of them side by side, just keen to have the physical measurements so that I know 100% they've sold me the wrong one.

    For obvious reasons I've not told the dealer that I'm trying to fit a 650b clevis to a 29er frame...
    I just did a rough measurement. The 29er link is 106mm and the 650 one is roughly 97mm.

  74. #74
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    Enduro 29er linkage.-yoke275.jpg
    Quote Originally Posted by a11y View Post
    Thanks, I already saw Fasnn8's photo of them side by side, just keen to have the physical measurements so that I know 100% they've sold me the wrong one.

    For obvious reasons I've not told the dealer that I'm trying to fit a 650b clevis to a 29er frame...

  75. #75
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    Thanks for your replies folks, they’re helping greatly.



    It sounds like my dealer ordered the wrong part. I measured it last night and it’s approx 106mm hence matches ktmben’s measurements above for the standard 29er clevis. I’d specifically asked for a 2014 Enduro 650b shock clevis and that’s what they’ve put on the receipt:



    However, does anyone know the actual part number for the 650b shock clevis? The packaging on the part I received came with this label/part number, note the reference to ‘MY13’ which can only mean 2013 model year I assume, and lack of reference to wheelsize:



    Can anyone confirm the correct/actual part number for the 650b clevis so that I can supply that to my dealer? I shouldn’t have to tell them, you’d think they’d get it right but obviously not.

  76. #76
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    I'm pretty sure this is the part number:

    PN S156300001

  77. #77
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    Thanks, I'll need to get back to the dealer asap.

  78. #78
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    Just realised that all 2013 Enduro's were 26"-wheeled, so I've probably received a clevis for a 2013 26" model. Just coincidence that it seems to be identical to the 2014 29er clevis, and is longer than the 2014/15 650b clevis. Oh well. Waiting for the shop to get back to me.

  79. #79
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    I'm also interested in the "Evo" Conversion. Did you guys all mount the standart Enduro 650b clevis, or has anybody tried the Enduro Evo 650b clevis?

  80. #80
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    Specialized Enduro 29 - Six Ways - Three wheel Sizes - Dirt

    some porno for all enduro 29 er out there

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    I wonder how is it possible to get - 1 degree only with one offset bushing? I am really interested in this.

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by gpgalanis View Post
    I wonder how is it possible to get - 1 degree only with one offset bushing? I am really interested in this.
    Me too. My understanding is a single offset bush gives 0.5 deg change in HA. I certainly measured it at around that when I fitted mine IIRC. Is the article forgetting you can only fit 1 x offset bust to the Enduro unlike 99% of other bikes which can take 2?

    My 650b linkage/clevis finally arrived today after the dealer initially sending me the wrong part:







    Will get it fitted and report back...

  83. #83
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    can one of you confirm please you have the 650 b link with debonair in a medium and your frame is still intact ))), and that the compatibility issue that dirt talks about is more with the ohlins shock on M 29 just to make things clear.

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by paparotus View Post
    can one of you confirm please you have the 650 b link with debonair in a medium and your frame is still intact ))), and that the compatibility issue that dirt talks about is more with the ohlins shock on M 29 just to make things clear.
    Sorry, size large and basic Fox CTD shock here here. And yet to even fit it!

  85. #85
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    When you fit it please report back. I also have a Large and I am thinking about this mod.

  86. #86
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    Will do. There's a thread on the 'Dirt' Facebook page live right now and people are reporting clearance issues running an offset bush PLUS the 650b linkage (which is what I intended doing). I'll be sure to measure clearance before riding...

    Can't get the link to work but search for 'Dirt Magazine' on FB, thread was posted around 3hrs ago.

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by paparotus View Post
    Specialized Enduro 29 - Six Ways - Three wheel Sizes - Dirt

    some porno for all enduro 29 er out there
    That's a great read. Thanks. I'm currently running the 29 front and 27.5 rear and really like it on the down hills. The front end is pretty light on steeper climbs so I might be tempted to try out his stem bar combo. I'm currently running a 50mm stem with atlas 35mm rise bars slammed to the headset

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by paparotus View Post
    Specialized Enduro 29 - Six Ways - Three wheel Sizes - Dirt

    some porno for all enduro 29 er out there
    Interesting. They say that the 650+ / 650+ with the link and Öhlins has a head angle of 66°, whereas the 29 / 29 with link and Öhlins has a 67° head angle.

    Shouldn't the angle be the same if you mount the same wheel size front and rear, all else being equal? Possibly they left out the link in the 29 / 29 version?

    Anybody here with a reliable measurement of the head angle difference with the link alone?

  89. #89
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    It is because they are the standard link.

  90. #90
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    OK, so I fitted my 650b clevis to my size large 2014 Enduro Comp 29 tonight - didn't quite go as expected...

    I was already running 1 x offset bush and I'd read there wouldn't be enough clearance to retain the offset bush combined with the shorter 650b clevis. That did indeed turn out to be true: with both fitted the 'seat-stay bridge' was hitting the rear of the seat-tube under full compression (don't worry, I was testing this in the workshop with no air in shock). OK I thought, not too surprising, I'll just replace the offset bush with a standard bush.

    So I replaced the offset bush with a standard bush, keeping the 650b clevis on the bike. The result? STILL insufficient clearance. That came as a surprise as according to online discussions this is what should work. Perhaps it's my frame/shock combination? But mine's size large with the standard Fox CTD shock, so isn't anything out of the ordinary.

    My first thought was f**k it Im removing the 650b clevis and refitting my offset bush, but then had the idea to try the 650b clevis but reverse the position of the offset bush so that it steepens the bike (i.e. it increased the eye-to-eye distance of the shock rather than reducing it). And the result? That same amount of extra eye-to-eye length was enough to give sufficient clearance between the seat-stay bridge and seat-tube. Happy.

    Figures before (inc offset bush, standard 29er clevis):
    HA = 67.3
    SA = 69.1
    WB = 1190mm
    BB height = 346mm (measured to middle of BB axle)

    Figures after (inc reversed offset bush, 650b clevis)
    HA = 66.9
    SA = 69.0
    WB = unchanged
    BB height = 338mm

    So basically my combo of offset bush the 'wrong' way round plus 650 shock clevis has slackened the head angle by a further 0.4deg, but much more importantly for me has dropped the BB height by 8mm. Doesn't sound a lot but every little helps. I'm not disappointed as I was relatively happy with the HA with just the offset bush fitted, so a little extra slackness is nice to have. But it's the lower BB I'm keen to try out as I'm running fairly chunky tyres which have added some height over the standard Butcher/Purgatory combo.

    I'll report back once tested...

    Before:


    29er vs 650b clevis:


    This is what I mean by reversed offset bush:


    Clearance with the 650b clevis and reversed offset bush:


    After:

  91. #91
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    What was your head angle only with the offset bushing?

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    Probably obvious, but just watch that the offset bushing doesn't rotate around on you. Interested in your feedback after some rides. I also have a large, but with CCDB Inline. Been trying to get a hold of one of the 650b clevis's, but this has me thinking twice.

    Wonder if it has anything to do that your bike is the aluminum version?

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by gpgalanis View Post
    What was your head angle only with the offset bushing?
    As above: 67.3deg. Unfortunately I can't recall what my actual HA was as standard (before fitting the bush).

    Quote Originally Posted by fanderson View Post
    Probably obvious, but just watch that the offset bushing doesn't rotate around on you. Interested in your feedback after some rides. I also have a large, but with CCDB Inline. Been trying to get a hold of one of the 650b clevis's, but this has me thinking twice.

    Wonder if it has anything to do that your bike is the aluminum version?
    Yep I'm a bit concerned of the bush rotating. The manufacturers of these bush do sell them for use this way round too, but in my mind the forces exerted upon it might cause it to rotate - consequences could be unpleasant. I do also wonder if it's my particular model (Fox CTD, aluminium frame) that's causing the clearance issue. On paper I like the sound of the stats the way the bike is now (reversed bush and 650b clevis, but I'll reserve judgement until I've ridden it a few times. Unfortunately all my regular big hills are snow-covered at the moment (central Scotland!) so it might be a few weeks at least.

  94. #94
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    @a11y What was the head angle only with the 650 link (link, but no offset bushings)?

    Thanks.

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    Has anyone done this successfully with the E29 Comp/Aluminum with a Monarch in Large?

  96. #96
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    I noticed after instal 650b clevis in my E29 2015 expert I need to put higher pressure in rear shock ,before I used to set it around 180 psi now I´m using 230 psi.

  97. #97
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    Indeed. Just shows how a couple of mm of link kinematics can change the leverage rate. The link definitely makes the latter half of travel less progressive.

    Have that in mind next time someone argues that designs that 'look' the same ride the same etc.

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by JCL View Post
    Indeed. Just shows how a couple of mm of link kinematics can change the leverage rate. The link definitely makes the latter half of travel less progressive.

    Have that in mind next time someone argues that designs that 'look' the same ride the same etc.
    And it was already pretty linear with the original yoke.

    @ JCL, have you tried offset bushings, and if so, what's your experience?

  99. #99
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    Yeah I have a Burgtec. Gives just about half a degree on my medium. Noticeable but not night and day like the 650b link.

    I should try the bushing rotated down. It might add a tiny bit of progressiveness.

  100. #100
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    Having looked at all possible options to slacken the E29 I think that the best one is to put a 27.5 wheel in the back.

    This is an option that when I first heard about it I laughed at it but seems to work across all sizes without any clearance issues and really does change the head angle.

  101. #101
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    You cam also use a Big tire ( 2,4) on the front and smaller on the rear ( 2,25 or 2,1)

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    Good point. But with the 29 & 27.5 combo you can use big tires (2.5) at both ends and get better grip and a plusher ride and also be benefited by the slacker HA. I am not saying that I will do it but I am seriously considering this option.

  103. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vanguard View Post
    @a11y What was the head angle only with the 650 link (link, but no offset bushings)?

    Thanks.
    Unfortunately I didn't take measurements with just the 650b link but without the bush. However, a single offset bush generally gives +/- 0.5deg change in HA (rule of thumb).

  104. #104
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    First ride yesterday after installing the 650b clevis and the reversed offset bush. Impossible to draw any conclusions with conditions like this...




  105. #105
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    FYI:

    Don't waste your time with an offset bushing to reduce the head angle.

    I just installed one on my 2015 Enduro 29. I measured head angle at the rear of the stem and the fork stanchion. I measured seat angle at the back of the seat tube. I also measured the bottom bracket on both sides to get an accurate average for that measurement. Additionally I did the angle measurements with two devices and took all measurements with the bike facing both directions in the same spot.

    I had a bunch of numbers to create an accurate average. The head and seat angles only decreased by -0.26 deg and the bottom bracket only decreased by -0.14".

    I feel zero difference in the geometry on the bike.

  106. #106
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    650b link installed on my '16 S-Works E29 XL with the Ohlins STX22 shock and the bike is absolutely incredible! This is my 3rd E29 since Oct '13 and it significantly outperforms both previous bikes. The Ohlins shock/slacker ha combination is just awesome.

  107. #107
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    Did anyone have their dealer balk at sourcing the 650 link since Specialized's stance is that this is a no-no?

  108. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by titusquasi View Post
    Did anyone have their dealer balk at sourcing the 650 link since Specialized's stance is that this is a no-no?
    I ordered mine earlier this month it hasn't come in yet, but my dealer was like "That sounds [email protected]#ing Cool!" which was a welcome response.

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    According to my LBS, Spesh UK are accepting orders but only with the Frame Number. I don't know if they are invalidating warranties or just keeping a record in case someone does trash their frame.

  110. #110
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    Read that issue happens only on Medium size frames, L and XL works fine

    Read that issue happens only on Medium size frames, L and XL works fine


    Quote Originally Posted by Bones 101 View Post
    So i bought and installed a 650 shock extension ( $30 part from Specialized) on my medium 2015 Enduro 29. i really like the slacker head angle and lower bb. Makes this bike so much more stable on rowdy dh tracks and feels a lot safer when i am nuking down the trail. But... i am having an issue at close to bottom out. At close to bottom out the rear triangle is hitting the seat tube. Anyone else had this issue? i heard it hit once and rode lightly and tried to keep from bottoming out the rest of the way down. i was going to have a bike shop buddy take a look and see if there is a way to either 1. add all the volume spacers in my cane creek inline and increase the pressure in the shock ( hopefully it wont get to harsh) or 2. see if i can limit some of the travel or maybe a smaller shock stroke might fix the problem. Just wondering for those that have put a 650b shock extension on your E29 if anyone has come across with the same issue?? Tom i see you have the large e29 but i dont think that would matter since the rear triangles are the same? any suggestions or help would be greatly appreciated as now i really dont want to go back with the stock shock extension if i can some how make this work. thanks!

  111. #111
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    3mm clearance on my medium. Heard it only contacts with large frames...

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    My LBS said L and XL only... I wonder if it has something to do with the shock's stroke? Seems like the variable.

  113. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoLo View Post
    My LBS said L and XL only... I wonder if it has something to do with the shock's stroke? Seems like the variable.
    You're saying that L and XL make contact or don't make contact? I have an XL comp model. Do we know if it matters on carbon vs. aluminum frame?

  114. #114
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    Must admit I never tried the link with the stock shock. Only a Monarch Plus.

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    Large here with stock DB Inline. I have been told that the medium is the only one with potential issues, some get away with it though. There is more than 3mm clearance on mine when bottomed out

  116. #116
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    Just installed mine... Medium - Comp Frame with the stock fox CTD and there is a bit more than 3mm clearance when fully squished, going to give it a short trail ride tomorrow to see how it feels the neighborhood jaunt felt more slack.

  117. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoLo View Post
    According to my LBS, Spesh UK are accepting orders but only with the Frame Number. I don't know if they are invalidating warranties or just keeping a record in case someone does trash their frame.
    As the link is not factory speck you are modifying the frame which does void the warranty on the frame. If your link hits the frame on full travel and that then causes a failure, it would not be a warranty claim.
    Home trails Swinley Forest UK

  118. #118
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    Anyone have the 650 link and want to sell it?
    Last edited by GlenPxC; 02-02-2016 at 01:01 PM.

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    I have driven my Enduro Comp -14 in b9er mode from last spring. I dont`t know the exact numbers of HA and BBH but I think they are around 66° and 331mm with standard shock link, reversed offset bushing and Pike lowered to 150mm.

    Pic from last April:
    in Lappeenranta, Finland - photo by tene - Pinkbike

  120. #120
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    Threw the link on and rode studded tires on fairly grippy packed snow yesterday. First impression is that cornering feel is much improved and DH feel is awesome. Climbing efficiency takes a little hit, but not bad at all, especially compared to other low-slack-long bikes (like my Knolly Chilcotin). Overall so far, benefits outweighing the drawbacks. Will report back when I get some dirt under the tires.

  121. #121
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    Did anyone order and receive the link since 8 January?

  122. #122
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    I should have one arriving next week, I'm on an M with the monarch, will post a small review asp.

  123. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by softbatch View Post
    Did anyone order and receive the link since 8 January?
    Yes, but my LBS had to do some serious searching. Think they finally got their inside rep to track one down.

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    So I let the air out of my CC Inline to check frame clearance on my large E29 Expert. At first, it appeared good. But when I put my full weight on the saddle and bounced a little, it seems to make light contact due to flex. I've heard a couple different people claim that they had 5mm clearance or so with my exact set up. Wondering if those people did the little bounce test like I did? Seems uncomfortably close during a harsh bottom out. I've gone on a couple of rides and haven't noticed bottom out on the frame, but I haven't gotten to really put it through any rough riding with the snow we have now.

    Thinking about putting a thin metal spacer between the shock and linkage to give it a touch more space. Anyone tried this?

  125. #125
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    Do an offset bushing but in reverse? That way it pushes the shock away from the forward eyelet.

  126. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanderson View Post
    So I let the air out of my CC Inline to check frame clearance on my large E29 Expert. At first, it appeared good. But when I put my full weight on the saddle and bounced a little, it seems to make light contact due to flex. I've heard a couple different people claim that they had 5mm clearance or so with my exact set up. Wondering if those people did the little bounce test like I did? Seems uncomfortably close during a harsh bottom out. I've gone on a couple of rides and haven't noticed bottom out on the frame, but I haven't gotten to really put it through any rough riding with the snow we have now.

    Thinking about putting a thin metal spacer between the shock and linkage to give it a touch more space. Anyone tried this?
    Quote Originally Posted by titusquasi View Post
    Do an offset bushing but in reverse? That way it pushes the shock away from the forward eyelet.
    That's exactly the solution I'm currently running (size large '14 Comp, Fox CTD) - see several posts above in this thread. Initially had worries about the bush rotating in the eyelet but that's proven false so far, no issues to report as yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by a11y View Post
    That's exactly the solution I'm currently running (size large '14 Comp, Fox CTD) - see several posts above in this thread. Initially had worries about the bush rotating in the eyelet but that's proven false so far, no issues to report as yet.
    That's good to hear. I'll give that a try. I was worried about the bushing rotating. Please report back if you have any future issues and I'll do the same.

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    Maximo, could you please report back if you've found any issues running the 650 link on the size 'M' frame with CTD shock?

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    Has anyone done this with the Ohlins TTX? There is only one ttx model and it fits 26/27.5/29 enduros, so if I'm thinking of this correctly that means putting a ttx on a 29er enduro increases it's travel to 165mm and changes the stroke length from 2.25" to 2.5". That would bring the seat stay closer, which makes me think the 650 clevis would cause it to contact. Think that I may just get the offset bushing instead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fanderson View Post
    That's good to hear. I'll give that a try. I was worried about the bushing rotating. Please report back if you have any future issues and I'll do the same.
    Will do. Glad to hear I'm not alone in finding clearance issues on a size large. The way you described it ("At first, it appeared good. But when I put my full weight on the saddle and bounced a little, it seems to make light contact due to flex.") is exactly what I found with mine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by toronte View Post
    Maximo, could you please report back if you've found any issues running the 650 link on the size 'M' frame with CTD shock?
    No issues at all, I will never put the stock link back on this bike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by a11y View Post
    Will do. Glad to hear I'm not alone in finding clearance issues on a size large. The way you described it ("At first, it appeared good. But when I put my full weight on the saddle and bounced a little, it seems to make light contact due to flex.") is exactly what I found with mine.
    I don't recall where I read this but someone mentioned that the DB Inline's stroke was shortened to the unique specialized length, but was done with a spacer that can be compressed under heavy loads. This causes the issue with the shorter linkage. If i remember correctly the solution was a rockshox shock.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones 101 View Post
    So....... after further testing and trial and error i figured out why i had issues with the rear triangle brace hitting the seattube. The stock cane creek inline comes with a 2.5 stroke while the bike is suppose to have a 2.25 stroke shock. So after putting on the new shorter 650b link and taking all the pressure out of the cane creek inline i would have 3 mm or so of clearance but with a lot of pressure i could push the 3 mm clearance and make the seat tube touch the rear triangle brace. So after researching i figured out cane creek put a rubber bushing in to limit the shock stroke down from 2.5 to 2.25. I ran my cane creek pretty low pressure to get all the travel and had hard bottom out jumping at bike parks where i could smash the rubber bushing enough to get the rear triangle to barely hit the seat tube. So first i put in all the volume spacers and ran the cane creek inline shock with more pressure than i prefer. But this limited the travel a little and kept the rear triangle brace from striking the seat tube. I just purchased a new monarch plus debonair that is a 2.25 stroke and i can now run the pressure as low as i want with the rear triangle brace not hitting the seat tube. The shock basically stops at the 3mm clearance mark and now i dont have to worry about breaking my frame or riding my suspension stiff and harsh. I am very happy with how i finally got it set up. wish it wouldn't have taken so long to sort it all out but again i am stoked with it.Click image for larger version. 

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    Hey Bones, are you still liking your combination of Monarch Plus and 650b shock link? Good performance compared to the Inline?

    Do you, or anyone else, know if the CCDB CS also limits the travel with a rubber bushing? I would think it doesn't judging by the way the shock body is configured.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GlenPxC View Post
    Has anyone done this with the Ohlins TTX? There is only one ttx model and it fits 26/27.5/29 enduros, so if I'm thinking of this correctly that means putting a ttx on a 29er enduro increases it's travel to 165mm and changes the stroke length from 2.25" to 2.5".
    There are three TTX's
    For reference these are the part no's.
    Demo MY11-15 98914-8010
    Enduro Evo MY14-15 98914-8110 216x63mm (Will fit Medium E26 giving more travel)
    E26/650B/29 MY13-15 98914-8120 216x57mm

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    so just finished a ride with the new 650b link , now is just one ride but i feel like i have to tell )) , im on a med enduro expert 2015 with debonair and no clearance issue about 3 to 4 mm , now im sure with the inline would not work, it has been covered the issue a few pages ago, before owning the enduro i had a stumpy evo 29 and even if the enduro is a bit more burly and has more travel it never had that inside the bike feel and for me the enduro felt more towards a trail bike than the stumpy evo weird right, well the rumors about this link transforming the enduro are true, just better in the corners hips more grip off camber and just more stable overall, going up no problem at all even at a race pace no wierd front wheel wondering tho i have a 40 mm steam renthal apex and i mount it upsidedown so maby that helps, all in all if your racing or just lie to go fast go for it its amazing , got some koms on trails i ride frequently 2 3 times a week with a bit of wrong wind as well. hope this helps some people that search for that in the bike feel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mudguard25 View Post
    There are three TTX's
    For reference these are the part no's.
    Demo MY11-15 98914-8010
    Enduro Evo MY14-15 98914-8110 216x63mm (Will fit Medium E26 giving more travel)
    E26/650B/29 MY13-15 98914-8120 216x57mm
    Yes, what I meant was there is only one model meant to fit enduro (non evo) models 26/27.5/29.

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    Quote Originally Posted by paparotus View Post
    so just finished a ride with the new 650b link , now is just one ride but i feel like i have to tell )) , im on a med enduro expert 2015 with debonair and no clearance issue about 3 to 4 mm , now im sure with the inline would not work, it has been covered the issue a few pages ago, before owning the enduro i had a stumpy evo 29 and even if the enduro is a bit more burly and has more travel it never had that inside the bike feel and for me the enduro felt more towards a trail bike than the stumpy evo weird right, well the rumors about this link transforming the enduro are true, just better in the corners hips more grip off camber and just more stable overall, going up no problem at all even at a race pace no wierd front wheel wondering tho i have a 40 mm steam renthal apex and i mount it upsidedown so maby that helps, all in all if your racing or just lie to go fast go for it its amazing , got some koms on trails i ride frequently 2 3 times a week with a bit of wrong wind as well. hope this helps some people that search for that in the bike feel.
    YES! My thoughts exactly... It makes the Enduro perform like I thought it would when I originally bought it.

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    Enduro 29er linkage.-img_20160224_101053.jpg

    one pic with the link installed

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    Quote Originally Posted by paparotus View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    one pic with the link installed
    Awesome pic, where is that?

  140. #140
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    fuerteventura canary islands

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    Couldn't figure uploading pictures
    Last edited by softbatch; 03-03-2016 at 11:46 AM.

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    Linkage Change Analysis

    So I asked Tony from Linkage Design to do a quick comparison from the E29 with stock yoke and E29 with 650B yoke. Attached are the results. You can tell from this why people need to add air and also the need to increase progressivity of the shock when running the 650B link.

    Tony, you're awesome, thanks for doing this.

    Enduro 29er linkage.-e29_mod_pedal-kickback.jpgEnduro 29er linkage.-e29_mod_levratio.jpgEnduro 29er linkage.-e29_mod_forces.jpgEnduro 29er linkage.-e29_mod_anti-squat.jpgEnduro 29er linkage.-e29_anti-rise.jpg

    Also if anyone is not going to use their 650B link I'd like to try it out on my E29.

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    Very cool, huge thanks to Tony and you!
    I have just put that 650b link on XL carbon E29 with CCDBA CS. Bike is transformed - for good - I will give more details after more miles...

  144. #144
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    That's great thanks. Explains why a standard Monarch air can is a better option than the Debonair.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sergio8691 View Post
    Very cool, huge thanks to Tony and you!
    I have just put that 650b link on XL carbon E29 with CCDBA CS. Bike is transformed - for good - I will give more details after more miles...
    Have you checked for seat tube contact issues? Cane Creek told me that the Inline and the CCDBA CS are built similarly and would both have contact issues on my size large.

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    I could not get anywhere near contact with all the air released and putting all my weight to the saddle (kind of jumping on saddle). 3-4 mm at least. I attached "indicator stripe" so that I would notice that I have come 1 mm close - nothing yet with riding pump track, jumping some smaller dirt jumps and small drops (like 2 feet). I added 10 psi pressure and half turn of HSC (but it was originally lower than recommended by CC). But again, mine is XL and carbon.

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    Smile CC DB in line works flawless in large E29er

    Quote Originally Posted by sergio8691 View Post
    I could not get anywhere near contact with all the air released and putting all my weight to the saddle (kind of jumping on saddle). 3-4 mm at least. I attached "indicator stripe" so that I would notice that I have come 1 mm close - nothing yet with riding pump track, jumping some smaller dirt jumps and small drops (like 2 feet). I added 10 psi pressure and half turn of HSC (but it was originally lower than recommended by CC). But again, mine is XL and carbon.
    I´m using 27,5 link in my E29 large size for almost 5 month ,I ride brutal rocky tracks plus I set up the shock with lower pressure ( I´m 196 pounds with my pack/apparel) like 170 psi and never had issues about contact ,I need put higher pressures like 240 psi to long climb , looks like it gets more linear shock action from begin to middle travel then it feel o lot progressive in the end of travel even with 170 psi set up I never bottomed out it

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    Most people seem happy with the 27.5 link but the "new" leverage curve isn't that great. It is less sensitive up to 110mm of travel and after that it is less progressive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mentawais View Post
    I´m using 27,5 link in my E29 large size for almost 5 month ,I ride brutal rocky tracks plus I set up the shock with lower pressure ( I´m 196 pounds with my pack/apparel) like 170 psi and never had issues about contact ,I need put higher pressures like 240 psi to long climb , looks like it gets more linear shock action from begin to middle travel then it feel o lot progressive in the end of travel even with 170 psi set up I never bottomed out it
    Weird. Mine definitely makes light contact on simulated hard bottom out with not air in the shock. Same exact set up. Maybe it's just some tolerance differences between frames/shocks.

  150. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by gpgalanis View Post
    Most people seem happy with the 27.5 link but the "new" leverage curve isn't that great. It is less sensitive up to 110mm of travel and after that it is less progressive.
    The sensitivity change is very minor. Like 2/3psi difference in spring rate. I agree with you about the rising rate towards the end stroke though. What that tells you is geometry is more influential of a bikes performance than suspension. A case in point is the latest Nomad which hasn't got the most textbook optimized leverage rate but the geo is so good it more than makes up for it.

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    After good week of riding with magic link I am very happy.
    This is how the bike should have been equipped stock. Gone is front wheel wandering, feeling of riding too tall, when descending bike is solid and dialed. I feel more confident and playful now - 1 week into the spring comparing to how it was at the end of the whole last season. Two issues are shorter reach and slacker seat tube.
    I have put longer stem (60 mm instead of 50 mm) and it really helped with the first issue - especially when going down. The slacker seat tube is somewhat problematic for me as I have inseam of 38 inches and already had seat moved almost all way forward. I hoaxed few mm more but it's not quite enough.
    All things considered I am enthusiastically not changing back. Descending improved dramatically, out of saddle technical climbing possibly improved a little - may be because of lower bike feel, seated climbing did not suffer too much.
    For somebody with less long legs seat tube angle could be compensated by saddle shift.
    I wonder if the next year version of Enduro will be lower and slacker...

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    Did anyone check Strava before and after the change?

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    Axis Corrected LR Chart

    So I recreated the Leverage Ratio comparison between 650B and E29 Clevis to get a better representation of the differences. I used the same y axis as the first linkage design posting.

    I did this because I noticed that the axis gave a bit of an exaggerated view of the differences between the two setups. Also after discussing it with Craig at Avalanche felt I wanted clear up any confusion on the board about the two links.

    Enduro 29er linkage.-lr_axis_correct.png

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    Still the leverage ratio of the stock Enduro is better in my opinion but most probably it is the slacker head angle that makes the difference.

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    Enduro 29er linkage.-20160311_164926-1_resized.jpg
    I'm not sure if this is in my head or if it means anything but I felt that my bike looked/felt a little slacker when I installed my ElevenSix shock. I downloaded a clinometer app on my phone to check the fork angle to see whats what. I had the bike straight up and on level ground in the kitchen and even turned it around 180 degrees to see if the degree changed. I still have the same clevis that came with the frame and didn't do any mods other then a new shock. I was very carful to keep the phone as still and straight as possible. If this is how you check how slack your front end is, I'm a happy camper. By the way I've been riding it this way since last June and cant recommend the ElevenSix enough, provided your willing to spend a small fortune.
    Enduro 29er linkage.-20160311_172019_resized.jpg

  156. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by acfsportsfan View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I'm not sure if this is in my head or if it means anything but I felt that my bike looked/felt a little slacker when I installed my ElevenSix shock. I downloaded a clinometer app on my phone to check the fork angle to see whats what. I had the bike straight up and on level ground in the kitchen and even turned it around 180 degrees to see if the degree changed. I still have the same clevis that came with the frame and didn't do any mods other then a new shock. I was very carful to keep the phone as still and straight as possible. If this is how you check how slack your front end is, I'm a happy camper. By the way I've been riding it this way since last June and cant recommend the ElevenSix enough, provided your willing to spend a small fortune.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I test rode an ELEVENSIX in Sedona. Seemed legit. What is your long term review? How did you end up liking the tuning capabilities?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Justin MD View Post
    I test rode an ELEVENSIX in Sedona. Seemed legit. What is your long term review? How did you end up liking the tuning capabilities?
    From the get go it was tuned perfectly for me, I have since added 2 clicks to my LSC & HSC on my climbing valve only because I'm doing a lot more single-trak these days. My downhill valve is spot on perfect, I've experimented with the LSC & HSC just to see if a change would feel better but I keep it where Push recommended. I also played with the rebound to feel a difference and I ended up liking it better with 1 click faster rebound. I'm more of a set and forget when it comes to suspension but this shock is super simple for me to understand. It has really made my E29 an awesome bike to ride. For example, I ended up getting more powerful brakes because I felt much more flow and speed on the downgrades. I was having to brake much sooner then I was used to hence I went with Saint brakes for more power. I did have a bit of a learning curve with the Saints because I had a couple of slow speed endows grabbing to much front brake. LOL! When I send my shock in for service and put my CCDB-CS back on temporally, I'll check the angle of the fork to see what the clinometer says to compare. I sure can't see why it would change but who knows, I like it the way it is.

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    This app makes me crazy! If I measure it as you do with the phone pointing down then I get 68. If I measure it under the stanchion with the phone pointing up (which I think makes more sense) then I get 65,5!

    Please note that I have a huge Magic Mary in front and a skinnier Maxxis DHR2 in the back.

  159. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by acfsportsfan View Post
    From the get go it was tuned perfectly for me, I have since added 2 clicks to my LSC & HSC on my climbing valve only because I'm doing a lot more single-trak these days. My downhill valve is spot on perfect, I've experimented with the LSC & HSC just to see if a change would feel better but I keep it where Push recommended. I also played with the rebound to feel a difference and I ended up liking it better with 1 click faster rebound. I'm more of a set and forget when it comes to suspension but this shock is super simple for me to understand. It has really made my E29 an awesome bike to ride. For example, I ended up getting more powerful brakes because I felt much more flow and speed on the downgrades. I was having to brake much sooner then I was used to hence I went with Saint brakes for more power. I did have a bit of a learning curve with the Saints because I had a couple of slow speed endows grabbing to much front brake. LOL! When I send my shock in for service and put my CCDB-CS back on temporally, I'll check the angle of the fork to see what the clinometer says to compare. I sure can't see why it would change but who knows, I like it the way it is.
    Thanks! I really liked it. I demoed a Capra and was really impressed with the pedaling efficiency. I have a RS Monarch RCT3 Deboniar with 250psi in to keep the sag down near 20%. Even with low sag and the compression valve at firmest it bobs pretty bad compared to the Capra (that had the same shock and 190psi).

    I feel like the pedal circuit really did a good job of stiffening the bike up. I kept the hsc open a few clicks and it did really well with small bump compliance while the lsc was near closed. Made my bike almost heel like a hard tail when pedaling.

    The DH valve was super awesome. Like glue. I had to speed up the rebound a bit to keep it from stacking on big steps but the hsc and lsc were spot on for my demo.

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    Here's mine, standard yoke and 650B yoke:

    Enduro 29er linkage.-e29-650b-yoke.jpg

    I've written a short review of the E29 with the 650B link. Here it is:

    Review | Specialized Enduro 29 with 650B Enduro Yoke - A Better Beast? - WheelSizeAgnostic
    Horses for courses.

    http://wheelsizeagnostic.com

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    I have ordered a 650B Yoke through my LBS because I have become increasingly curious about the change, though it is going on 2 weeks now and they still haven't received it yet. I enjoyed reading your review and my thinking is that I could swap between the two Yokes depending on where I would be riding. I live in the S.F. bay area and an example would be 650B Yoke for places like Demo Forrest, parts of UCSC and Downieville. 29er Yoke for Wilder, Saratoga Gap, China Camp. Obviously this is just off the top of my head and much subject to change, I wont know until I try it and I may love it and keep it on permanently or not like it at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones 101 View Post
    So....... after further testing and trial and error i figured out why i had issues with the rear triangle brace hitting the seattube. The stock cane creek inline comes with a 2.5 stroke while the bike is suppose to have a 2.25 stroke shock. So after putting on the new shorter 650b link and taking all the pressure out of the cane creek inline i would have 3 mm or so of clearance but with a lot of pressure i could push the 3 mm clearance and make the seat tube touch the rear triangle brace. So after researching i figured out cane creek put a rubber bushing in to limit the shock stroke down from 2.5 to 2.25.
    bingo - see the white spacer (in my broken CCDB that came on my E29). That's how they 'limit travel'
    Enduro 29er linkage.-broken_ccdb_air.jpg

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    I have been guinea pigging a Monarch Plus (regular air can with Autosag feature) for a handful of rides in hopes that the Monarch would allow my to more safely use the 650b link. Before I received the Monarch, I was running a CC Inline with offset bushing (in reverse) to get adequate frame clearance. A couple of thoughts that might help people out:

    1. The Monarch doesn't really gain much (if any) frame clearance when I checked it at full compression and no air in the shock. I was surprised because there are a couple of posts earlier in this thread that indicated the opposite experience. My suspicion is that it is simply harder to bottom out, which is why people haven't had bottom out issues with it. So far I have not felt frame contact, but I have also had a very hard time getting the last 2-3mm of travel out of the Monarch no matter what air pressure I run. Admittedly, I have not cracked it open to see if there are any volume reducers are in there, but I expect there are none since it's the small non-Debonair can.

    2. I'm still fiddling with the Monarch, but my initial impression is that the Inline is a better damper. The Inline absorbs higher speed smaller impacts (i.e. chatter) much better than the Monarch. As others have said, the Monarch high-speed damping is a little on the stiff side. However, I have to give the Monarch credit for big hit absorption/composure.

    My opinion: The Monarch would work very well for those that have smooth fast trails with a few big hits here and there. The Inline would work better for continuously chunky trails. Personally, I will likely be switching back to the Inline.

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    All excited to try this out and shut down by availability....Any ideas? I'm checking into a bushing option but that will only give 3mm due to having only one eyelet to modify. The bike yoke option doesn't work for me because I already have a monarch plus in stock format. Damn....this sucks Help!!!!

    Thanks for any replies in advance

    Correction. I just found out that the maximum adjustment is 2mm offset with an 8mm bushing after getting in touch with offset bushings.com.

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    You could have a machine shop shorten your existing link. Pretty sure someone earlier in this thread mentioned doing that. I'd probably try to grab an extra 29er link to experiment.

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    Thanks for the idea. After looking at the clevis, I don't think I would want to play around with losing mass at the shock mount. It would likely be the only way to shorten the link. you definitely couldn't machine down the arms.

    Then again, I could just take a few mills off the link and use the 2 mm of offset on the bushing...interesting.

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    Yup. Seems like splitting the difference would be the way to go.

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    Yeah, nice one. 2 heads are better than one I guess...

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    After looking a photos of the two side by side, it appears that the difference is on the bolt not the length of the arm. It appears as though they have just milled the bolt side shorter which gives me more confidence in milling it down myself.

    It will be nice to have both a shorter clevis and offset bushing for tweaking....

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    One word of caution when you mill. Personally, I would not mill the link as short as the 650b because I've found clearance issues with all THREE shocks I've tried on my large 2014 carbon Expert, including Monarch Plus, DB Air, and DB Inline. The Monarch has the least issues (i.e. most clearance), but it's not much more than a 1mm or two at full flex bottom out.

    I have played with gaining clearance using the offset bushing, but honestly it's a pain in the ass because it's hard to get it exactly where you want without it moving before you tighten it. I've found that a small movement in the bushing cant make a BIG different in your frame clearance issues. I'll add that once the bushing is tightened, it does not appear to rotate (even after some hard bashing for two weeks in AZ this spring).

    So, I'd mill it in stages until you are happy with your HA vs. frame clearance as opposed to shortening it the full difference all at once. Good luck and report back!

  171. #171
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    Good advice fanderson. Thanks. I was planning on going under for that reason. I was thinking a net of around 4mm, but will definitely go in steps to get there.

    I had forgotten what the joint looked like unbolted. It is sleeved, so I may have to mill down the shock end as well to match....we'll see.. At this point it will likely be a small amount.

    Will report back the results once I'm sorted.

    Did you end up happy in the end?

    I rode a 2013 comp frame with all my own parts for 3 years putting around 8000 miles on it. Had a great experience overall taking it to Downeville and Northstar multiple times along with living in Santa Cruz. it has a 150mm pike which I'm going to change to 160mm on the new frame (2015 S works). It was always a little less stable on downhill as opposed to my buddies Nomad. Was going to go 650b but couldn't pass up the deal I got, and it is the devil I know

    Hoping this mod will satisfy my desire to switch up to something else.

  172. #172
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    I'm still using the rotated offset bushing trick. I've measured HA (with iPhone so not terribly accurate) and I think I've got around 66.6 to 66.7. Using the Monarch with regular bushing gives more like 66.5. Believe it or not, it's noticeable. I'm strongly considering doing what you are doing so I don't have to worry about the damn bushing anymore. Very interested in your results.

  173. #173
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    Should have some info in a no more than 2 weeks. Gotta wait for the bushing to come from the UK. Everything else will be here shortley...

    I will try the milling my old 2013 first with the stock bushing in the mean time.

  174. #174
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    Is there any way you could confirm the actual 650b vs 29 size difference? It would help to have a max range. I can't remember where or if I saw it written. 6mm is what I remember.

    Thanks

  175. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stadanko View Post
    Is there any way you could confirm the actual 650b vs 29 size difference? It would help to have a max range. I can't remember where or if I saw it written. 6mm is what I remember.

    Thanks
    See posts #73 through 75 of this thread. If you need more accuracy, I can probably pull some measurements in the next couple days.

  176. #176
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    By those measurements it looks like a 9mm difference. I'm going down to the bike shop to measure one myself....

  177. #177
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    So I was able to go down to my local shop and they had one for me to inspect. It was not for sale.

    I measured here.
    650b
    Enduro 29er linkage.-20160427_125534.jpg
    29
    Enduro 29er linkage.-20160427_125557.jpg
    Sorry the camera angle is not perfect but you can see there is approximately a 6mm difference.

    rough caliper measurements show that the base is the major factor in size difference.
    Enduro 29er linkage.-20160427_124849.jpgEnduro 29er linkage.-20160427_124835.jpg


    some more photos to illustrate my point
    Enduro 29er linkage.-20160427_124627.jpg
    Enduro 29er linkage.-20160427_125325.jpg


    The trick is that the sleeve pocket is the same size on both. This means that you must mill down both the shock end along with the base to achieve your goal.
    Enduro 29er linkage.-20160427_133052.jpg

    So in the interest of not taking much material off of my shock end, I'm going to shave 2mm and use the 2mm offset bushing for a net of 4mm.

    I'll give a full review of my findings within a couple of weeks I hope...
    Last edited by Stadanko; 04-28-2016 at 12:29 PM.

  178. #178
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    Finally got mine yesterday! Has been on order at the shop since last october. Funny thing is when they finally got one in specialized sent them two by mistake. I have a medium size with the ohlins ttx coil. With the 650b link my HTA is around 66 degree. I took the coil off and pushed on it hard and still had plenty of clearance. Makes me think that it's actually the larger size frames having clearance issues. Considering the ohlins already has a longer stroke than the other shocks. Haven't gotten to ride it yet, hopefully this weekend.

    For reference, my seat was flat before I put the link on. Haven't adjusted it yet.

    Enduro 29er linkage.-img_2997.jpg

  179. #179
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    Sweet, maybe I'll try again to get the 650b link. who knows.....


    Update: My LBS can get me one it seems. They said the order went through. Not sure how long before I get it.

    I'll try that first, then go the other route if that doesn't work out.
    Last edited by Stadanko; 04-28-2016 at 12:33 PM.

  180. #180
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    I finally got a 650 shock link and yes it did slack my rig about 1 degree and lower my BB about 8mm but after 3 good rides I went back to the original link. I have the ElevenSix shock and it is dialed perfect for me with the original link. It's amazing how a small change will make a big difference in ride quality. On smooth-ish trails with the lower BB the bike railed better but felt much more harsh and chattery on any kind of gnar. I tinkered with the LSC, HSC and Rebound, even did multiple runs on the same trail with small changes but never got the shock to perform as good with the original link. Today I called Darren from Push and he says he's not surprised because I changed the leverage ratio and the shock is dialed to it, also I would most likely need a different spring. They valve their shocks for the 650 and 29er very differently.
    Needless to say My E29 was dialed perfect so back to the way it was.
    Nothing gained nothing lost.

  181. #181
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    Interesting. That's the first time I've heard that it caused harshness and chatter. I wonder how that will translate with my monarch plus air spring. The leverage ratio change makes sense.

    I won't be able to get my new ride fully built for a few more weeks.

  182. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by acfsportsfan View Post
    also I would most likely need a different spring. They valve their shocks for the 650 and 29er very differently.
    Did they suggest that revalving and different spring would improve things? I did change HSC, air pressure and added spacers for my CCDBA (not inline) and I love how the bike ride with new link. Actually I find it unthinkable to go back to old geometry I would tell Push guys upfront that I am riding 650b link - do you think it will work?

  183. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by sergio8691 View Post
    Did they suggest that revalving and different spring would improve things? I did change HSC, air pressure and added spacers for my CCDBA (not inline) and I love how the bike ride with new link. Actually I find it unthinkable to go back to old geometry I would tell Push guys upfront that I am riding 650b link - do you think it will work?
    I did inquire but as Darren said it's a big difference between the ride characteristics of the two frames. It's why they have a weight limit on the 650 shock. I'm not at all bummed out about the 650 link not working out for me, I was curious because of all that I was reading here about other riders experiences. I originally had the CCDB-CS shock before the ElevenSix and for me it's a major upgrade. My E29 is a super-awesome ride as is.

  184. #184
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    The Monarch plus enduro shock is the same part number for both frames. I've been doing some research. The ElevenSix is likely far more tune specific than other shocks out there. I would guess that other shocks are more tolerant to the mod. I'll know more when I can actually try it. I'm waiting on parts to do full servicing on both my fork and shock....

    Sounds like that ElevenSix shock is insane. It should be for the price. Wow!! I've never seen a price point like that.

  185. #185
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    Makes me wonder what the ohlins will ride like since it was specifically tuned for the enduro as well. Although, the ohlins is the same for 26/27.5/29 so I would think it would still ride the same as with the 29 link. I put the 650 link on with my ohlins, but still have yet to ride it due to all the rain.

  186. #186
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    Thank you! I want it slack and low, I want it slack and low!
    Actually Evil Wreckoning is as slack and low as it gets but it has it's issues - I will be probably sitting behind rear wheel with it's seat angle and my 38 inch inseam and I have doubts about single pivot suspension...

  187. #187
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    I can't remember but have we also mentioned that the 650b link lengthens the chainstay length too?

  188. #188
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    I don't believe so. The chainstay is a fixed length from the BB to the rear wheel drop out. Lowering the bottom bracket will not change that length.

    If you consider it purely from a horizontal standpoint, the chainstay is becoming more angled and therefore getting shorter with regards to a flat plane.

  189. #189
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    No it will be slightly longer static. The only way it wouldn't would be if the main pivot was concentric. I measured the static to sag differential once and I think it was 5mm longer. A while ago so I'm not 100% on the amount.

  190. #190
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    Now that I think about it.....duh. the bottom bracket being on the other side of the pivot moves slightly away from the wheel center as it drops.

    Chainstay would only be fixed on a hard tail.

  191. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by sergio8691 View Post
    Actually Evil Wreckoning is as slack and low as it gets but... I have doubts about single pivot suspension.
    It is not a single pivot. There is a ton going on in that (ugly) suspension - I wouldn't think DW would settle for single pivot
    Would love to try one one as I've always been a big fan of his suspensions (IronHorse, then Ibis)

  192. #192
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    That thing does use complex contraption of links to control linkage rate - but it's still a single pivot - just like Scott downhill bikes and many others... It might work very well but from my experience good old FSR is still the king...

  193. #193
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    Yep a single pivot like all those Honda and Yamaha dirt bikes with their multi million dollar R&D budgets...

  194. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by sergio8691 View Post
    That thing does use complex contraption of links to control linkage rate - but it's still a single pivot - just like Scott downhill bikes and many others... It might work very well but from my experience good old FSR is still the king...
    It has just as many pivots as the FSR, so no, it's not "more complex". It's just a linkage-driven single-pivot, which works very well, especially with modern 1x setups, whereas many older bikes that were designed to be run either 2x or 2 or 1x aren't really optimized for 1x, so you make some sacrifices when you run that way. Is there any significant characteristic that is being achieved with an FSR vs. a single pivot? No, brake characteristics can easily go both ways, with good and bad examples on both sides. These days, it's hard to get better than a good single-pivot linkage-actuated bike, as designers have narrowed in on the correct balance of properties for the gear-combos being used.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  195. #195
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    My experience is limited to one single-pivot, one VPP and two FSR bikes.
    FSR bikes have been wonderfully neutral in braking on both on smooth and rough surface and excellent in climbing rough stuff. Single pivot was good when climbing and extending when braking (stinkbug behavior I guess). VPP was braking OK but so bad when climbing obstacles that I had almost given up mountain biking...
    Those were somewhat older designs I bet newer are much better.
    What I am not happy about in Evil bikes is their "cantilever" implementation of single pivot which require overbuilt swingarm and bottom bracket area of the bike making it heavy - and also requiring very slack actual seat tube - could be fatal for my 38 inch inseam.
    Otherwise the Wreckoning checks all the squares.

  196. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by sergio8691 View Post
    My experience is limited to one single-pivot, one VPP and two FSR bikes.
    FSR bikes have been wonderfully neutral in braking on both on smooth and rough surface and excellent in climbing rough stuff. Single pivot was good when climbing and extending when braking (stinkbug behavior I guess). VPP was braking OK but so bad when climbing obstacles that I had almost given up mountain biking...
    Those were somewhat older designs I bet newer are much better.
    What I am not happy about in Evil bikes is their "cantilever" implementation of single pivot which require overbuilt swingarm and bottom bracket area of the bike making it heavy - and also requiring very slack actual seat tube - could be fatal for my 38 inch inseam.
    Otherwise the Wreckoning checks all the squares.
    Not sure what you mean by "overbuilt", the E29 is no lightweight, especially because the best it gets is "half-carbon", with a metal rear end. The evil is basically a moto-link, a very widely used design. Maybe because the BB "looks" massive you are assuming it's heavy? The entire bike is pretty stout, but they make stout bikes overall.

    These styles of bikes actually have leaned in the opposite direction historically, with single pivots usually displaying varying degrees of squat and FSR type bikes leaning towards stinkbugging. What you may have experienced was a lack of low-speed compression damping allowing for excessive front end dive due to weight shift, something that a lot of squat can help with, but many of the older forks like older marzocchis and others were particularly terrible in this regard.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  197. #197
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    I take exception to Evil's being called stout. The Wreckoning is probably has the least torsional rear centre stiffness of any bike I've seen. With a stiff wheel you can hold the saddle and flex the rear wheel 10+ degrees off the vertical plane no problem.

  198. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by JCL View Post
    The Wreckoning is probably has the least torsional rear centre stiffness of any bike I've seen.
    That's unfortunate. And kinda expected from the design layout - and all that "we had to use downhill grade carbon blah blah blah..." And judging by the Evil forum comparable builds are quite a bit heavier than carbon E29. Good old triangulation of short beams rules.
    It's a pity as the bike has perfect geometry - except for seat tube angle...

  199. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by JCL View Post
    I take exception to Evil's being called stout. The Wreckoning is probably has the least torsional rear centre stiffness of any bike I've seen. With a stiff wheel you can hold the saddle and flex the rear wheel 10+ degrees off the vertical plane no problem.
    I find this statement very relevant to my interests since I have an aluminum E29 and have been looking into the Wreckoning.

    Are you saying you physically performed this test on a Wreckoning or was it something you heard?

    I have been hesitant since multiple reports began to come out about the Following being "less stiff" than you might think. This has been my main concern with the Wreckoning since I'm a large human.

    If you can confirm this statement I'm probably waiting to see what the E29 redesign looks like. Thanks!

  200. #200
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    I live close to a manufacturer who has a Wreckoning for testing purposes. It's amazingly flexible. However, I haven't ridden the bike so I can't comment on how noticeable it is when riding.

    Have you looked at a Nomad? I can't think of a better bike for a larger guy. Stiffness and suspension wise.

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