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  1. #1
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    2020 Enduro Thread Try 2

    Looks like the 2020 Enduro Thread got taken down while I wasn't paying attention. I know there was a dealer event a few days ago for the Enduro so I'm guessing pictures leaked and Specialized wasn't too happy...

    So far I'm hearing crankworx launch, 29 only, and slacker than the stumpy Evo with a head angle in the 62's. Anyone have any new info?

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    According to the screenshots (which i will not post) i made from the leaked pictures it tends very much in the DEMO niche if you havenīt seen them. I hope the new Kenevo will also make a step in this direction.

    j.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jemen View Post
    According to the screenshots (which i will not post) i made from the leaked pictures it tends very much in the DEMO direction if you havenīt seen them. I hope the new Kenevo will also make a step in this direction.

    j.
    According to some friends and my local dealer who have seen the actual product shots you are very correct.

    At this point I'm just hoping they give it some proper reach, because currently both the stumpy Evo and new demo don't come long enough to fit me at around 6'4". I've got a pre order in for a carbon Guerilla Gravity The Smash (and I'm on the old smash now), but if Specialized does good with the Enduro I might just have to get one.

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    I hope too. Iīm 6'2" tall and iīm still not sure if should take an L or XL Enduro if itīs that short as a demo...
    Iīm gonna visit Specialized University in Holzkirchen next week..., we will see....

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    I had a 2017 Enduro in XL, never really got along with that bike and it always felt a bit small, the 2018-19s are bigger though.

    Any chance you could PM me those screenshots? Would love to see it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jemen View Post
    According to the screenshots (which i will not post) i made from the leaked pictures it tends very much in the DEMO niche if you havenīt seen them. I hope the new Kenevo will also make a step in this direction.

    j.
    I mean, if you want to dm the pics, I won't be mad.

    Pretty stoked on this. A friend rode a prototype this past year and simply gushed about it. I just want to test it out myself. Seems like it will be between this and a Reign 29 for me. Coming off a jekyll 27.5 (and because a buddy with a 27.5 who didn't love the vibe of the 29 jekyll). Got on a trance advanced 29 1 and def ready for big wheels and big travel now that brands have it more sorted.

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    Also gotta lol that google image search still pulls up the prototype demo and old version of this thread.
    If the anti-squat and other things they seemed to prioritize on the new demo carry over enough, it should ride well. Most people have always had good things to say about the enduro anyway. They also tend to have the best EP, which helps some of us choose bikes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lwkwafi View Post
    Also gotta lol that google image search still pulls up the prototype demo and old version of this thread.
    If the anti-squat and other things they seemed to prioritize on the new demo carry over enough, it should ride well. Most people have always had good things to say about the enduro anyway. They also tend to have the best EP, which helps some of us choose bikes.
    Haha yep the EP is the only reason I bought my '17 Enduro. It was a fine bike, but I always felt is was just OK at everything and never felt that special. A lot happier with my Guerilla Gravity now but if the Stumpy Evo is anything to go off of this new one could be something really special.

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    Yeah, spec was a little slow to get better geo. I had a carbon camber evo that was maybe 450 reach for xl. And for a while, stumpy was still that for XL, which turned me off to it. Jekyll is 495 and going shorter than 480 just seems silly these days. Oddly, it was a case of steepening sta because the ett is about the same on the camber as the jekyll and my trance 29. Just feels better in the downward direction with the longer reach numbers.
    Stumpy evo would be a cool park bike, but I think it'd suck to ride around central PA with all the rocks. low bb is low. Good for what it can do, but not all around riding here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jemen View Post
    According to the screenshots (which i will not post) i made from the leaked pictures it tends very much in the DEMO niche if you havenīt seen them. I hope the new Kenevo will also make a step in this direction.

    j.
    I think the new Demo 29 is officially the ugliest downhill bike on the market.

    Quite a change from the Demo 8 27.5, which was probably one of the prettiest.

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    Anyone wanna DM them leaked pics?

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    DM the pics!

    Quote Originally Posted by Etchandy View Post
    Anyone wanna DM them leaked pics?
    Yes please, I'm almost pulling the trigger on the new meta am 29 but I heard about the spec, please send the pics!

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    I would be interested in getting some photos Dmíed also

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    Quote Originally Posted by Etchandy View Post
    Anyone wanna DM them leaked pics?
    Yes please!

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    Had a google and nothing is coming up for the new bikes.

  16. #16
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    What do you guys expect to learn from pics?

    Do you really buy bikes based on aesthetics?

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    1. Yeah.
    1a. I mean, my bikes are pretty. I will avoid buying a bland black bike if I can help it.
    1b. I bet you also care what your bikes look like.
    2. If only they showed things besides vague shapes, like parts spec and the like.

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    Funny enough, I didn't buy my Ebike for it's looks. While I do like how it looks, that played nothing in to it. I liked my '17 Al Comp, but I wanted SWAT and coil, so I got the Ohlins coil model.

    Considering how often I throw the bike down the trail, looks are really not my thing.

    In my opinion, we are close enough to "peak bike". The small improvements are so small that I don't imagine replacing a bike for performance reasons ever again. Hell, just the small difference between the '17 Comp and Ohlins Coil (which people claim is massive) isn't even a reason to upgrade. Glad I did, but it wasn't needed. My '17 is now a spare parts, and potentially, spare bike if I ever destroy the '18 out of warranty.

  20. #20
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    Based on the leaked photos, I think the new Enduro looks nice. Better than the Demo 29, but, the Demo 29's looks don't bother me. The angle of the pictures are kind of strange so it's hard to tell for sure, but the reach doesn't look huge but the HA looks slack.
    "Less yappin' more braapin" - IFHT

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by lwkwafi View Post
    1. Yeah.
    1a. I mean, my bikes are pretty. I will avoid buying a bland black bike if I can help it.
    1b. I bet you also care what your bikes look like.
    2. If only they showed things besides vague shapes, like parts spec and the like.
    I couldn't give a crap what it looks like or what components they put on it. All that matters is how it rides. That's sizing, geo and kinematics. A photo isn't going to tell you anything.

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    davemk where are said leaked photos?

  23. #23
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    The leaked shots are still up over on Vital, just search "2020 enduro" in the Vital photos section and they come right up. Not the best shots but cool to see.

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    Thanks Gvus2001

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    looking at those spyshots, I wonder how having the shock linkage mount on the top of the downtube would impact the SWAT, hard to tell if that frame has SWAT or not.

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    cool. looks like they were inspired by the newer Santa Cruz bikes...
    "Mi amor Nuevo Miťrcoles!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by oikeith View Post
    looking at those spyshots, I wonder how having the shock linkage mount on the top of the downtube would impact the SWAT, hard to tell if that frame has SWAT or not.
    SWAT storage is directly under the bottle cage.

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    Looking at the leaked shots, where is the rear shock? Canít see it in the photo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peterhenric View Post
    Looking at the leaked shots, where is the rear shock? Canít see it in the photo.
    Search for 2020 Specialized Demo pictures. They will give you a good idea of what you are looking at in those shots.

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    Very SantaCruz like, disappointing. Was hoping for a more Stumpy looks.

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    I wonder if more and more manufacturers are going to go with this "lower link" suspension design.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iguanabartola View Post
    Very SantaCruz like, disappointing. Was hoping for a more Stumpy looks.
    Function over form, if it provides the best ride I don't care what design it looks like. This actually looks more like the Enduro from 2006 with the low shock mounting which was one of my favorite bikes.

    2020 Enduro Thread Try 2-p4pb3537368.jpg

  33. #33
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    Every manufacturer is trying to get the shock/linkage as low as possible. Trek, Scott etc have the cleanest solution so designers have to get creative.

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    The reason that SC went to the lower shock mount was to separate the suspension dynamics. From what I remember their old system tied the shock curve to something else and they could not get the mid stroke support they wanted without causing other issues. The new setup completely decoupled those old dependencies.

    There is some great info out there on why Specialized went this way on the Demo 8. They admitted that the old design was very harsh in certain situations specifically square edge hits, pedaled poorly and made the bike unpredictable at the limit.

  35. #35
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    The guy who races for Spec in the EWS (is it Kevin Miquel?) was on one in Whistler this week, have seen it a few times. It's got snow camo sticker job & looks just like the spy shots. The SWAT cage sits a little further up the down tube to allow for the lower shock mount.

    Assuming there is an imminent announcement as it was a carbon frame, so everything is obviously all doen and ready to go.

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    2020 Enduro Thread Try 2-s1600_img_20190805_141546994.jpg

    @Specialized, Its out in the wild, its fair game!

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    I believe the 2020 Enduro announcement is next week.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwapik View Post
    I believe the 2020 Enduro announcement is next week.
    I'd hedge a bet that its this week as they will be racing them at the weekend at EWS whistler. Taking the Stumpy to Whistler = Knife to a gunfight.

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    i am very excited. lots of new bikes dropping this week but this is the one we've been waiting for. .com is currently under maintenance...

    i hope its not evo extreme cause i'm gonna mullet this bike.

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    2020 Enduro Thread Try 2

    Random pic found on the Internet.
    Every time I see the Spesh boys riding them in Santa Cruz, I think they are a Bronson at first. Geo doesnít look too extreme, but no need to speculate any further as a full release should be in a few days at most.

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    That's the pic that's gotten this thread taken down twice, but with the release just a few days away (I heard the 11th but who knows if that's right) I doubt specialized is going to take it down again.

    Getting stoked to see it, I just hope they get their sizing act together and give us giraffes a bike with real reach.

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    Totally just eyeballing it, but looks like a 160mm fork. If that is true, it's probably 160 out back too. It could be that the dude is compressing the fork by leaning on it though.

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    This pic was taken a little over 2 years ago now. Not that far off from the new bike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gvus2001 View Post
    That's the pic that's gotten this thread taken down twice, but with the release just a few days away (I heard the 11th but who knows if that's right) I doubt specialized is going to take it down again.

    Getting stoked to see it, I just hope they get their sizing act together and give us giraffes a bike with real reach.
    I hope youīre right with August 11th. Cannot wait anymore. The carbon frame will be a monster.

  45. #45
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    Whistler Crankworx Enduro Practice Starts Today

    They must be releasing the bike soon, riders start practicing today:

    2020 Enduro Thread Try 2-whistler.png
    "Less yappin' more braapin" - IFHT

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    I think in one of the threads that got deleted someone had heard the 13th, but I'm hoping for the 11th or earlier.

    The one we've seen looks pretty awesome. The head angle looks very slack and the wheelbase and reach look nice too.

    One thing I am curious about is will there be multiple different versions under the Enduro umbrella like the Stumpjumper "LT", ST, and Evo.

    Seems to me once the 19 enduro is retired there will be a big gap between the Stumpjumper "LT" 29 and both the Stumpjumper Evo 29 and 2020 Enduro if the head angle is as slack as it looks.

    66.5/67 on the "LT" to 63.5/64 in the Evo and probably as slack as the Evo on the 2020 Enduro if not even slacker. Maybe 62.5/63.

    If the one we have been seeing is the more gravity oriented version. It would be cool to see one that is more trail oriented or like an Evo with more travel. Maybe the same angles or 64/64.5 and 160 or 170mm of travel.

    I think this would slot in nicely between the 2020 Enduro "Evo", the Stumpjumper Evo and the Stumpjumper "LT"

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  47. #47
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    Just confirmed, it's coming out on the 13th.

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    Who/where confirmed?

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gvus2001 View Post
    Just confirmed, it's coming out on the 13th.
    My LBS confirmed 14th Australia time/date.

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    Needed that dude to flip the page so we can see the specs/geo numbers.

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    2020 Enduro Thread Try 2-screenshot_20190809-183702.jpg

    13th August according to Specialized

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    One more

    Enviado desde mi ONEPLUS A5010 mediante Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by X\'siano View Post
    One more

    Enviado desde mi ONEPLUS A5010 mediante Tapatalk
    When was the last time they had a bridge between the seatstays?

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    Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk

  56. #56
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    It looks great, handles all my complaints with the current gen. Iíd like about another 10mm in top tube length over the current numbers. Well see!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2020 Enduro Thread Try 2-72dcb035-512b-457c-813a-878607e7a1db.jpg  

    2020 Enduro Thread Try 2-19f7cbcc-32f4-48f2-b118-b55716f7b17c.jpg  

    2020 Enduro Thread Try 2-f1c367af-cd9a-4e6d-892c-a08c35f7284f.jpg  


  57. #57
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    Looking at the downtube, shock tunnel and that massive rocker link...this thing is going to be a stiff monster, which I am interpreting as a positive. I don't need a big mountain bike, but it looks awesome. Hopefully clears big tires.

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    For sure I don't "need" it but I want it.
    Which is my problem?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ntinos P View Post
    For sure I don't "need" it but I want it.
    Which is my problem?

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    Lack of taste my friend!

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    Quote Originally Posted by mountlynx View Post



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    Which shoes does he wear?

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by jemen View Post
    Which shoes does he wear?
    Specializedís own 2FO


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    Quote Originally Posted by Ntinos P View Post
    For sure I don't "need" it but I want it.
    Which is my problem?
    Saaaaaame. I absolutely love my Ď18 Enduro 29, but a new redesign certainly peaks my interest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow4eva View Post
    Specializedís own 2FO


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    Ok then, i thought UFO ( legendary BMX stuff).

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    Quote Originally Posted by jemen View Post
    Ok then, i thought UFO ( legendary BMX stuff).
    Yeah well, it doesnít make sense for a brandís rider to only use their bike when they also produce apparels, lol


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    Probably a new 2FO Cliplite because they have the BOA on top not on side.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow4eva View Post
    Yeah well, it doesnít make sense for a brandís rider to only use their bike when they also produce apparels, lol


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    The DH team wears Fox gear and runs Maxxis tires.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RBoardman View Post
    The DH team wears Fox gear and runs Maxxis tires.
    Youīre right about the clothing, but Specialized factory riders ALWAYS use Specialized tires.
    Also the rider below with the new Enduro uses Fasthouse clothing, so itīs nothing unusual they have their own sponsoring gear. Itīs no secret Specialized does not have the best wear in their clothing line i guess...

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    Quote Originally Posted by jemen View Post
    Youīre right about the clothing, but Specialized factory riders ALWAYS use Specialized tires.
    Also the rider below with the new Enduro uses Fasthouse clothing, so itīs nothing unusual they have their own sponsoring gear. Itīs no secret Specialized does not have the best wear in their clothing line i guess...
    Ha. Iím sorry mate, but cameras are too good these days. Even the beloved American Dream used to rock a DHF up front at races.


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    Quote Originally Posted by RBoardman View Post
    Ha. Iím sorry mate, but cameras are too good these days. Even the beloved American Dream used to rock a DHF up front at races.

    Haha, ok, got me then ;-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by RBoardman View Post
    Needed that dude to flip the page so we can see the specs/geo numbers.
    Looks like there will be no Aluminium and no model with ÷hlins suspension, even not the S-Works.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by jemen View Post
    Looks like there will be no Aluminium and no model with ÷hlins suspension, even not the S-Works.
    Not sure what you're seeing, every one of those looks like it has the Ohlins air shock (which I'm not too happy about, blew up 4 of them in the 10 months I had my '17 Enduro).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gvus2001 View Post
    Not sure what you're seeing, every one of those looks like it has the Ohlins air shock (which I'm not too happy about, blew up 4 of them in the 10 months I had my '17 Enduro).
    I meant the forks...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gvus2001 View Post
    Not sure what you're seeing, every one of those looks like it has the Ohlins air shock (which I'm not too happy about, blew up 4 of them in the 10 months I had my '17 Enduro).
    Looks like its the TTX and not the STX.

    STX wasn't up to the job due to the bending load put on the shaft. Mine lasted a few months before the air seal went, then the damper died. After a bit of wrangling, Spesh swapped it out for a TTX.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RBoardman View Post
    The DH team wears Fox gear and runs Maxxis tires.
    What?! My life is ruined!
    Just kidding, but seriously though, there has to be at least 1 piece of apparel (jersey, gloves, pants, inner wear, shoes, socks) that those riders wear that is Specializedís own, right?


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    Looks like Finn is wearing 2FO clips

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    Quote Originally Posted by RBoardman View Post
    Needed that dude to flip the page so we can see the specs/geo numbers.
    Whatís up with the potato cam. Looks like it was shot with a phone from 15 years ago or phone was dropped in water. This also looks like a pre-production catalog. Smells like a choreographed leak from big S. No way someone would take a photo like this.

    Also youíll notice that all the bike layouts donít have photos of the drivetrain or wheels yet. They are all using placeholder solid black images.

    I guess we will find out tomorrow. The anticipation.


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    ?

    I can see wheels and drivetrains. Not super clear or sharp, but they are there. Looks like Shimano rotors.
    Quote Originally Posted by michaeldorian View Post
    Whatís up with the potato cam. Looks like it was shot with a phone from 15 years ago or phone was dropped in water. This also looks like a pre-production catalog. Smells like a choreographed leak from big S. No way someone would take a photo like this.

    Also youíll notice that all the bike layouts donít have photos of the drivetrain or wheels yet. They are all using placeholder solid black images.

    I guess we will find out tomorrow. The anticipation.


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  78. #78
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    Look at all the models of the bikes. The cranks, cassettes and wheels are exactly the same. When Specialized does this, they use the placeholder wheels. Those wheels look like fat tires. I've seen them do this on their website for pre-released items.
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  79. #79
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    If i had more credit cards id pre order. Good thing all the CC companies know all my aliases.


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  80. #80
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    It is 13th August in my part of the world.... hope the geometry and build details will be out soon...

  81. #81
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    The 13th at 9am PST is the dealer event, so I'm guessing soon after that it will be out for the public to see.

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    So i guess you would be happy with an S5 sizing with 511 reach then wouldnīt you?

  83. #83
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    Sneak peek

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    Quote Originally Posted by jpec29 View Post
    Sneak peek

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    Quick moment of silence for the lack of a 2nd bottle cage mount even though there's plenty of space... imagine the hydration...

    For real though that looks great, excited to see the geo!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gvus2001 View Post
    Quick moment of silence for the lack of a 2nd bottle cage mount even though there's plenty of space... imagine the hydration...

    For real though that looks great, excited to see the geo!
    I already have the Geo dates. You will love it!!!

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    Any 27.5 option?

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockon82 View Post
    Any 27.5 option?
    Word on the street is 29 only.


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  88. #88
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    Hmmmm, why isnīt it not online yet?

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    Looks like the head angle will be around 62.5į or 63į based on me copying this picture in to PowerPoint and then rotating a vertical line until it looks parallel to the fork.

    Still wondering if there will be 2 geometry models. Standard and Evo.

    Can't wait for noon EST/9 PST!

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  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gvus2001 View Post
    Quick moment of silence for the lack of a 2nd bottle cage mount even though there's plenty of space... imagine the hydration...

    For real though that looks great, excited to see the geo!
    Where do you think a second water bottle could go?

    Looks pretty tight in there to me with 1 already, the shock, and the linkage.

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  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by jemen View Post
    Hmmmm, why isnīt it not online yet?
    A post from yesterday said there is an event at 9am PST/12pm EST so sounds like we have a little longer to go.

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  92. #92
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    Just saw the prices. SWorks is a ridiculous 11699Ä in our region(probably 10999Ä in CE)! Meaning it's as expensive as an SW Levo!
    There will be a Comp Carbon, Elite Carbon and Expert Carbon. SW is with XTR 12 spd. S-Works, Expert and S-Works Frame Sets will be available at launch. Elite and Comp are scheduled to be available by the end of the Calendar Year.
    Official launch today at 18.00 CE time.

  93. #93
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    Hope the new Stumpjumper EVOs are sooner available.

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    2020 Enduro Thread Try 2-enduro-50%25.jpg
    2020 Enduro Thread Try 2-enduro3-50%25.jpg
    2020 Enduro Thread Try 2-enduro2-50%25.jpg
    2020 Enduro Thread Try 2-geo.jpg

    j.

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    2020 Enduro Thread Try 2-enduro-vs-stumpy-vs-g1-geo.png

    Interesting Geo numbers. S3 is very similar to the current Large Enduro and also the Stumpy Evo S3
    S4 is is very similar to the Nicolai G1 !

  97. #97
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    Overpriced

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by javigutz View Post
    Overpriced
    Yes, completely.

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    !!!!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2020 Enduro Thread Try 2-rahmen-50%25.jpg  


  100. #100
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    Bikes are live on the US website.


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    surprised the Enduro is steeper than the EVO.... too bad no coil option but that would probably make it too heavy for the weight weenies. Those Grid tires are also crap.

  102. #102
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    PB has their first ride preview out now https://www.pinkbike.com/news/first-...tml#cid2340978

    Sounds like a pretty rad bike. I don't love the build kits but the frame only price is good with the included Float X2

  103. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthShoreDude View Post
    surprised the Enduro is steeper than the EVO.... too bad no coil option but that would probably make it too heavy for the weight weenies. Those Grid tires are also crap.
    Sounds to me that there will be an Enduro Evo coming up, or at least I hope so


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  104. #104
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    This 2020 Enduro gets close to my ideal CS to WB proportions in M/S3 (442mm | 1246mm).

    The old one had my ideal proportions in L (433mm | 1225/1218mm).

    The shorter seat tube would be a huge plus, but the interrupted seat tube means that I can't take advantage of a longer dropper post due to insertion depth.

    Not surprised to see the media outlets who have testers riding size L (S4) not totally confident. All sorts of better options in L than this S4, such as the new Slayer, MegaTower, Strive 29, Capra 29, La Sal Peak (vast majority of latest and greatest). And this looks to be an alternative to something like the Transition SBG bikes, SB150, Kona Process 153 29 and Whyte G170 29 (and certain GG configs) for those who ride size M. S5 and S2 should look elsewhere (e.g. S5 Stumpjumper XL; S2 27.5 Cannondale Jekyll Sm).

    One thing I am curious about is the cantilevered BB. If they allowed it to twist/flex a bit on pedaling, that would be really thoughtful. I got the same setup on my steel frame, where the seat tube connects forward of the BB so the BB is merely hanging off the DT, and I believe it has allowed me to push bigger gears like a singlespeeder.

    I think 64 is as slack as they can go for mainstream 29er FS bike (62 for a long travel hardtail maybe, due to dynamic geo at sag). With a 51mm offset, any slacker and the bike would feel super unstable at low speed like a DH bike. Would be funny seeing people take their first pedal strokes on a 62d HA enduro bike around the parking lot, all wobbly, but not great for sales due to scary first impressions.

  105. #105
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    For those picking one up. Post your height and sizing choice please!
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  106. #106
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    That translucent red of the expert looks so good, wish that came as a frame only! S5 sizing is exactly what I was hoping for sizing wise, just need to find one to try out now.

  107. #107
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    Either the pricing of carbon needs to come down, or there needs to be an aluminum option. That's not specific to the Enduro, just an overall observation.
    MTBR: Your dad's online mountain bike forum.



  108. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by blaklabl View Post
    Either the pricing of carbon needs to come down, or there needs to be an aluminum option. That's not specific to the Enduro, just an overall observation.

    Agreed, especially when companies like Guerilla Gravity are doing carbon frames made in the US for around $2500 with XO1 builds under $6k, it makes these prices look a bit ridiculous.

  109. #109
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    I think a person is better off buying an EVO and long shocking the F and R. Way cheaper and you can get coil.

  110. #110
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    I have to say the build vs price on the range is pretty sad. Who wants to pay $6.5K for a bike (Enduro Expert) and have a crap DT 370 hub, and although decent parts the Grip dampener, X Fusion Post and GX Cassette seem a little low brow for a bike at that price point.

    Oh and Alloy bars.

  111. #111
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    Frame only is the way to go here. Havent added it up but good chance you could spec a frame, XT 12 speed, i9 101 wheels, 36 elite for about same price as base spec and have performance of sworks.


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  112. #112
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    Australia isnít getting the S Works frame only
    I understand not wanting to stock them, but I donít understand why they donít have an option to special order these in? It canít be that hard.

    Looks hot.

  113. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by B Rabbit View Post
    Australia isnít getting the S Works frame only
    I understand not wanting to stock them, but I donít understand why they donít have an option to special order these in? It canít be that hard.

    Looks hot.
    Thatís terrible, what about those who have already got the previous model and want to simply swap frames?


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  114. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaeldorian View Post
    For those picking one up. Post your height and sizing choice please!
    I'm about 5' 9.25" to 5' 9.50" with a 32" cycling inseam (using the method where stand against a wall with your heels touching the wall, then placing a book between your legs right up to your crotch and one edge of the book place flat against the wall, and then measure from the floor to the top of the book)

    I'm thinking of going with a S3. Will be heading down to my LBS to make a deposit. I'm coming off a large 2017 27.5 Enduro so this bike is already going to be considerable longer in the reach (+14mm) and wheelbase (+45mm). Sound like some of the reviewers on the S4s thought going with an S3 might be better for them. Would demo the S4 though if I had the chance.

    Was hoping to get an Expert model. Thought it would be in the ballpark of the Stumpjumper Expert, but $6,550 is way over my budget. Nowhere near the $5,000 of the Stumpjumper Expert or even the $5,500 original price of the Stumpjumper Expert before they lowered the price.

    Now trying to decide between the Elite and the Comp.

    $800 difference which I am not sure is justified.

    For that $800 you get:

    1) GX Eagle cassette vs NX Eagle cassette (This would be nice to have since the GX Eagle cassette is a lot lighter than the NX Eagle cassette and since you get the XD driver you have the option to easily upgrade to an X01 Eagle or XX1 Eagle cassette down the road if you want to for even more weight savings. I'm not sure if you can get an XD driver through your LBS for the hub that comes on the Comp's wheels. If you can then it's still not too bad or expensive of an upgrade to go to GX Eagle. If not then it becomes a case of a new rear hub, spokes, nipples, tubeless tape, and sealant if not a completely new rear wheel. I do have a Hadley hub that I could use which has XD and it would have way better engagement than either hub on the Comp or Elite. I would just need a new rim, spokes, and nipples to use that.)

    2) GX Eagle derailleur vs NX Eagle derailleur (Wish they had made this the shifter vs the derailleur, but I guess upgraded rear derailleurs still sell higher spec bikes in 2019. Either way the GX Eagle derailleur and even GX Eagle shifter are fairly easy and not too expensive upgrades to do after the fact.)

    3) Descendant crankset vs NX Eagle crankset (The descendant crankset would be nice to have, but I'd probably want to run 165mm cranks anyway and these are another fairly easy and not too expensive upgrade to do after the fact. Would probably go 165mm GX Eagle or 165mm Descendant cranks.)

    4) Lyrik Select Plus fork vs Lyrik Select fork (This is a tough one as the Select damper is relatively unknown. This damper debuted in some of the Revelation and Yari forks last year. It's a spring backed IFP damper, very similar to the base Fox/Marzocchi GRIP damper. The Select Plus damper is the same as the Ultimate damper, but it is not the HSC/LSC version unfortunately. The Select Plus fork also gets a few improvements designed to maximize small bump compliance that the Select fork doesn't. In the real world it's hard to say which one would actually feel more plush if there is a distinguishable difference at all. And which would be more reliable? The bladder based Charger 2.1 damper of the Select Plus fork or the spring backed IFP Charger RC damper of the Select fork?)

    5) Roval front hub vs Specialized front hub (How much difference can there be in a front hub? Lighter? Stiffer? Better bearings? That hub machining they were touting last year when the refreshed Roval wheel lineup came out that is supposed to put less stress on the j bend spokes?)

    6) Roval rear hub with DT 3 pawl internals vs Specialized/Formula rear hub with 3 pawl internals (Again how much difference can there be in a rear hub? Lighter? Stiffer? Better bearings? More robust internals? That hub machining they were touting last year when the refreshed Roval wheel lineup came out that is supposed to put less stress on the j bend spokes?

    7) DT Competition Race vs DT Industry spokes (The Competition Race spokes are lighter, less stiff, and more compliant than the Industry spokes. They should also be more durable since they have more compliance built in and also have additional cold forging processes which strengthen the spoke that the Industries don't get.)

    Not sure this is worth $800

  115. #115
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    Looking through the specs of these Enduro's and i see the saddle called Bridge. Is the Henge done and does anyone of the pic of this new saddle coming on the Enduro?

  116. #116
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    Looks like a Santa Cruz to me. Very original Specialized

  117. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vin829 View Post
    Looks like a Santa Cruz to me. Very original Specialized
    Yep, and the stump is a reversed orbea rallon...


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  118. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow4eva View Post
    Yep, and the stump is a reversed orbea rallon...


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    very insightful and original thought from both of you.

    bike is out for me due to being more travel than I need. I love my stumpy but wondering what this platform would do in a 150/140 package. is two years? three years down the road?

  119. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by westoxified View Post
    very insightful and original thought from both of you.

    bike is out for me due to being more travel than I need. I love my stumpy but wondering what this platform would do in a 150/140 package. is two years? three years down the road?

  120. #120
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    They are spec'd with a 2.3 rear tire. Anyone know max tire clearance?

  121. #121
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    So, the MTBR review makes mention of an S1 size? any truth to that?? I'm 5'5" on a good day and the S2 is going to be a stretch....literally.

    "The medium on the outgoing model had a wheelbase of 1190 mm while the new S2 is quite a bit longer at 1246mm. Itís a longer bike for sure as styles have changed. But the rider in this size can opt for an S1 with a 1217mm wheelbase if that is a major concern."
    -Ride it like you stole it

  122. #122
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    2020 Enduro Thread Try 2

    Quote Originally Posted by DucRR View Post
    So, the MTBR review makes mention of an S1 size? any truth to that?? I'm 5'5" on a good day and the S2 is going to be a stretch....literally.

    "The medium on the outgoing model had a wheelbase of 1190 mm while the new S2 is quite a bit longer at 1246mm. Itís a longer bike for sure as styles have changed. But the rider in this size can opt for an S1 with a 1217mm wheelbase if that is a major concern."
    I think that was a mistake. The S2 is 1217 and the S3 is the 1246. Iím also trying to decide between S2 or S3 at 169cm. 5í 7Ē on a good day. Flat footed 5í 6Ē. 30Ē inseam.

    If you compare to Santa Cruz sizing, itís basically M,L,XL,XXL. A lot of bike companies in long travel 29 donít have SM modelís because those riders might be better off on a 27.5 bike.


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  123. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by enjoi525 View Post
    They are spec'd with a 2.3 rear tire. Anyone know max tire clearance?
    Name:  enduro_spec.JPG
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    66mm = 2.59in

    Found here:
    https://media.specialized.com/suppor...0000139644.pdf
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  124. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaeldorian View Post
    I think that was a mistake. The S2 is 1217 and the S3 is the 1246. Iím also trying to decide between S2 or S3 at 172cm. 5í 7Ē on a good day. Flat footed 5í 6Ē. 30Ē inseam.

    If you compare to Santa Cruz sizing, itís basically M,L,XL,XXL. A lot of bike companies in long travel 29 donít have SM modelís because those riders might be better off on a 27.5 bike.


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    Thanks for the info - I suspected a misprint. No demos in my areas to test out so I may roll the dice on it. It's a little frustrating though. Just cause I am short doesn't mean I don't want to haul @$$! I'm on a SJ 27.5 now and I have had any range of SJ or Enduro 29's and 27.5's in the past. the 29 is just flat out faster.
    -Ride it like you stole it

  125. #125
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    For those who wondered about sizing......I have a S3 EVO, and ordered the S5 Enduro. I'm 186cm, or 6ft1-ish.

  126. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by DucRR View Post
    Thanks for the info - I suspected a misprint. No demos in my areas to test out so I may roll the dice on it. It's a little frustrating though. Just cause I am short doesn't mean I don't want to haul @$$! I'm on a SJ 27.5 now and I have had any range of SJ or Enduro 29's and 27.5's in the past. the 29 is just flat out faster.
    I think the S2 might be pretty dialed for you. I had an S2 SJ EVO 29 and felt totally fine on the 445 reach. Just didn't get super along with 29 wheels as my main trail bike. I'm now on S2 SJ EVO 27.5 with 465 reach. 29 wheels do make the bike feel big though. I'm 5' 7" on a good day. Want to build a park / mini DH bike and also trying to decide on S2 or S3.
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  127. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghisdal View Post
    For those who wondered about sizing......I have a S3 EVO, and ordered the S5 Enduro. I'm 186cm, or 6ft1-ish.
    Damn! Let us know what you think.
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  128. #128
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    Having second thoughts on ordering the Comp now.

    Got quoted late September when I asked about the Elite yesterday and today I found out that the Comps are due late November.

    That's a long time to wait...
    Quote Originally Posted by mmckechnie View Post
    I'm about 5' 9.25" to 5' 9.50" with a 32" cycling inseam (using the method where stand against a wall with your heels touching the wall, then placing a book between your legs right up to your crotch and one edge of the book place flat against the wall, and then measure from the floor to the top of the book)

    I'm thinking of going with a S3. Will be heading down to my LBS to make a deposit. I'm coming off a large 2017 27.5 Enduro so this bike is already going to be considerable longer in the reach (+14mm) and wheelbase (+45mm). Sound like some of the reviewers on the S4s thought going with an S3 might be better for them. Would demo the S4 though if I had the chance.

    Was hoping to get an Expert model. Thought it would be in the ballpark of the Stumpjumper Expert, but $6,550 is way over my budget. Nowhere near the $5,000 of the Stumpjumper Expert or even the $5,500 original price of the Stumpjumper Expert before they lowered the price.

    Now trying to decide between the Elite and the Comp.

    $800 difference which I am not sure is justified.

    For that $800 you get:

    1) GX Eagle cassette vs NX Eagle cassette (This would be nice to have since the GX Eagle cassette is a lot lighter than the NX Eagle cassette and since you get the XD driver you have the option to easily upgrade to an X01 Eagle or XX1 Eagle cassette down the road if you want to for even more weight savings. I'm not sure if you can get an XD driver through your LBS for the hub that comes on the Comp's wheels. If you can then it's still not too bad or expensive of an upgrade to go to GX Eagle. If not then it becomes a case of a new rear hub, spokes, nipples, tubeless tape, and sealant if not a completely new rear wheel. I do have a Hadley hub that I could use which has XD and it would have way better engagement than either hub on the Comp or Elite. I would just need a new rim, spokes, and nipples to use that.)

    2) GX Eagle derailleur vs NX Eagle derailleur (Wish they had made this the shifter vs the derailleur, but I guess upgraded rear derailleurs still sell higher spec bikes in 2019. Either way the GX Eagle derailleur and even GX Eagle shifter are fairly easy and not too expensive upgrades to do after the fact.)

    3) Descendant crankset vs NX Eagle crankset (The descendant crankset would be nice to have, but I'd probably want to run 165mm cranks anyway and these are another fairly easy and not too expensive upgrade to do after the fact. Would probably go 165mm GX Eagle or 165mm Descendant cranks.)

    4) Lyrik Select Plus fork vs Lyrik Select fork (This is a tough one as the Select damper is relatively unknown. This damper debuted in some of the Revelation and Yari forks last year. It's a spring backed IFP damper, very similar to the base Fox/Marzocchi GRIP damper. The Select Plus damper is the same as the Ultimate damper, but it is not the HSC/LSC version unfortunately. The Select Plus fork also gets a few improvements designed to maximize small bump compliance that the Select fork doesn't. In the real world it's hard to say which one would actually feel more plush if there is a distinguishable difference at all. And which would be more reliable? The bladder based Charger 2.1 damper of the Select Plus fork or the spring backed IFP Charger RC damper of the Select fork?)

    5) Roval front hub vs Specialized front hub (How much difference can there be in a front hub? Lighter? Stiffer? Better bearings? That hub machining they were touting last year when the refreshed Roval wheel lineup came out that is supposed to put less stress on the j bend spokes?)

    6) Roval rear hub with DT 3 pawl internals vs Specialized/Formula rear hub with 3 pawl internals (Again how much difference can there be in a rear hub? Lighter? Stiffer? Better bearings? More robust internals? That hub machining they were touting last year when the refreshed Roval wheel lineup came out that is supposed to put less stress on the j bend spokes?

    7) DT Competition Race vs DT Industry spokes (The Competition Race spokes are lighter, less stiff, and more compliant than the Industry spokes. They should also be more durable since they have more compliance built in and also have additional cold forging processes which strengthen the spoke that the Industries don't get.)

    Not sure this is worth $800
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaeldorian View Post
    Damn! Let us know what you think.
    Will do. Coming off 6 days in the Alps with the EVO (in 170/154 config), so it will be interessting to see what the Enduro brings to the table.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ghisdal View Post
    For those who wondered about sizing......I have a S3 EVO, and ordered the S5 Enduro. I'm 186cm, or 6ft1-ish.
    I highly recommend sticking to your S3 EVO and just long shock/fork it. Demo before putting money on a S4 or S5 enduro, unless you are a type of rider that loves back wheel and want to be a hooligan, rather than carve turns at race pace.

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    Quote Originally Posted by B Rabbit View Post
    Australia isnít getting the S Works frame only
    I understand not wanting to stock them, but I donít understand why they donít have an option to special order these in? It canít be that hard.

    Looks hot.
    NZ gets the frame (NZ$5500) but we don't get the Elite bike. Only Comp (and only in black), Expert and S-Works. I think the lack of alloy will really limit sales.

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    The S-Works reviews and photos I've seen all have a Fox X2 rear shock but the specs on Specialized's website (the photo still shows an X2) says Fox Float DHX2 Factory with a EVOL Air Sleeve. Is this a coil shock (or a typo)?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ninjichor View Post
    I highly recommend sticking to your S3 EVO and just long shock/fork it. Demo before putting money on a S4 or S5 enduro, unless you are a type of rider that loves back wheel and want to be a hooligan, rather than carve turns at race pace.
    Huh.
    Can you elaborate at bit? You basing this on numbers or have you ridden the bike?
    I own an S3 carbon evo and love it, all except the super low BB which is a boaederline dealbreaker as my local stuff is super chunky. I REALLY like the geo of the new enduro on paper, but not sure 170mm is really better for my riding.
    One thing thatís for sure is that the Factory enduro riders will be on this and not the evo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by elsinore View Post
    Huh.
    Can you elaborate at bit? You basing this on numbers or have you ridden the bike?
    I own an S3 carbon evo and love it, all except the super low BB which is a boaederline dealbreaker as my local stuff is super chunky. I REALLY like the geo of the new enduro on paper, but not sure 170mm is really better for my riding.
    One thing thatís for sure is that the Factory enduro riders will be on this and not the evo.
    Sounds like you can use a more linear spring rate and less sag to account for the low BB.

    I recommend a different bike for tall riders, because yes, the geo tells a story people often overlook: the weight bias of the bike. This is a critical concept in motor vehicle design, but often overlooked on bicycles since riders are the biggest weight and they can shift their weight forward and back on their own. I firmly believe that the bike can be matched to peoples' natural riding style; forcing riders to ride outside of their natural style, adapting to the bike, is not ideal, such as forcing them to purposely put more weight on the front. The best riders look like they're smoothing out the terrain, using subtle positioning and technique that looks effortless; smooth is fast, and a rider on a dialed bike makes it look effortless.

    Too little weight on the front and it understeers. Too much on the front and it oversteers (rear slips and can possibly highside), and the drivewheel is more likely to slip on slippery ground (more likely to flip forward, over-the-bars, on a bike, and front wheel diving when airborne on drop/jump). It also affects suspension tuning, tire pressure, and general "attitude" (aggro vs defensive). Sitting on the saddle on most bikes gets you 70% rear weight bias (70:30), while standing up and pedaling gets a weight ratio that depends on the CS to WB proportions, ranging from 50:50 like on a small Ibis Ripley or an average long CS ebike, to 65:35 on a short CS bike with extra long wheelbase. I believe the sweet spot is around 57-60% on the rear. The rider on a 50:50 bike would be compelled to compensate for too much weight up front by shifting their weight back, hips behind the saddle, whenever their handling is nearing their limits.

    The problem with bike sizing is that their CS length doesn't change with the WB, so each bike rides noticeable different. People who are able to ride two sizes back to back will likely notice, but they may falsely attribute the feel to other things like reach, or difference in suspension, tire, riding condition, or riding technique. This is a legit performance difference, that people fool themselves into thinking that they can adapt to, having blind faith that because brand names are big and are supporting big names, they can't be wrong.

    There's different levels of wrong. It's not just absolutes. It's like 1+1 = 3 is less wrong than 1+1 = 66. I'm recommending to hold off, keeping what they have and modifying it in a way to get what they're looking for in a S5 Enduro, and to demo before recklessly spending money. Spec is like others that have this same sizing issue. Forbidden Druid is one of the few bike designs that seemingly accounts for a rider in vehicle dynamics regarding the system's center of mass using polar coordinates. With this new system of sizing, Spec is essentially saying it's up to the rider to decide which size suits their style best. It's not about S5 fits 6' 0"+ riders and S4 is for riders 5'9 to 6' 2" (with overlap), it's about being able to choose from any size and going by feel. If you demo all the different sizes back to back, and S3 feels more effortless around corners and off drops compared to S2, S4, or S5, then pick it based off that, rather than picking it based on some questionable correlation between height and size. Maybe you might learn of the weight bias thing, where S2 has you off the back of the bike defensively riding, and S5 feels scary fast in the straights but is fun to pop up into the air off of bumps, but fails to carry much speed through the turns.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow4eva View Post
    Yep, and the stump is a reversed orbea rallon...


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    Why do people still go on about the Rallon/Stumpy comparison like it's an original idea? The Demo's asymmetrical frame predated the Rallon by what, 4 years or so?
    Last edited by rushcentrale; 08-16-2019 at 12:07 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ninjichor View Post
    Sounds like you can use a more linear spring rate and less sag to account for the low BB.

    I recommend a different bike for tall riders, because yes, the geo tells a story people often overlook: the weight bias of the bike. This is a critical concept in motor vehicle design, but often overlooked on bicycles since riders are the biggest weight and they can shift their weight forward and back on their own. I firmly believe that the bike can be matched to peoples' natural riding style; forcing riders to ride outside of their natural style, adapting to the bike, is not ideal, such as forcing them to purposely put more weight on the front. The best riders look like they're smoothing out the terrain, using subtle positioning and technique that looks effortless; smooth is fast, and a rider on a dialed bike makes it look effortless.

    Too little weight on the front and it understeers. Too much on the front and it oversteers (rear slips and can possibly highside), and the drivewheel is more likely to slip on slippery ground (more likely to flip forward, over-the-bars, on a bike, and front wheel diving when airborne on drop/jump). It also affects suspension tuning, tire pressure, and general "attitude" (aggro vs defensive). Sitting on the saddle on most bikes gets you 70% rear weight bias (70:30), while standing up and pedaling gets a weight ratio that depends on the CS to WB proportions, ranging from 50:50 like on a small Ibis Ripley or an average long CS ebike, to 65:35 on a short CS bike with extra long wheelbase. I believe the sweet spot is around 57-60% on the rear. The rider on a 50:50 bike would be compelled to compensate for too much weight up front by shifting their weight back, hips behind the saddle, whenever their handling is nearing their limits.

    The problem with bike sizing is that their CS length doesn't change with the WB, so each bike rides noticeable different. People who are able to ride two sizes back to back will likely notice, but they may falsely attribute the feel to other things like reach, or difference in suspension, tire, riding condition, or riding technique. This is a legit performance difference, that people fool themselves into thinking that they can adapt to, having blind faith that because brand names are big and are supporting big names, they can't be wrong.

    There's different levels of wrong. It's not just absolutes. It's like 1+1 = 3 is less wrong than 1+1 = 66. I'm recommending to hold off, keeping what they have and modifying it in a way to get what they're looking for in a S5 Enduro, and to demo before recklessly spending money. Spec is like others that have this same sizing issue. Forbidden Druid is one of the few bike designs that seemingly accounts for a rider in vehicle dynamics regarding the system's center of mass using polar coordinates. With this new system of sizing, Spec is essentially saying it's up to the rider to decide which size suits their style best. It's not about S5 fits 6' 0"+ riders and S4 is for riders 5'9 to 6' 2" (with overlap), it's about being able to choose from any size and going by feel. If you demo all the different sizes back to back, and S3 feels more effortless around corners and off drops compared to S2, S4, or S5, then pick it based off that, rather than picking it based on some questionable correlation between height and size. Maybe you might learn of the weight bias thing, where S2 has you off the back of the bike defensively riding, and S5 feels scary fast in the straights but is fun to pop up into the air off of bumps, but fails to carry much speed through the turns.
    Iím already running less than 30% on the evo with the travel
    Limit spacer removed. Any less volume spacers in there and itís prone to bottom hard.
    Also, 165 cranks. Still
    Love the bike though, but again smashing pedals at speed on descents is a bummer, even if it is only once in a while.


    Sounds like you havenít ridden the new enduro?

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    It's funny the comparisons to the Nomad in terms of how it looks... And yet similar to the big hitting Enduro in 2005/06. We've come full circle. I definitely prefer the X shape aesthetically though.

    Pricing in New Zealand is up there too. My 2014 Comp was $4500NZ, the 2020 Comp starts at $7500. Though it is carbon.



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    Quote Originally Posted by rushcentrale View Post
    Why do people still go on about the Rallon/Stumpy compariosn like it's an original idea? The Demo's asymmetrical frame predated the Rallon by what, 4 years or so?
    I was just going along with him


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    Quote Originally Posted by paulcd View Post
    NZ gets the frame (NZ$5500) but we don't get the Elite bike. Only Comp (and only in black), Expert and S-Works. I think the lack of alloy will really limit sales.
    Yeah, i think I'll end up trying to get a frame sent over from a NZ shop. Will make Warranty a bit tricky, but I can cross that bridge if I come to it I think they are saying late October for frame only's to start coming in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by paulcd View Post
    The S-Works reviews and photos I've seen all have a Fox X2 rear shock but the specs on Specialized's website (the photo still shows an X2) says Fox Float DHX2 Factory with a EVOL Air Sleeve. Is this a coil shock (or a typo)?
    At least in Europe it is the X2 shock that comes with the frame. I think it is just a typo as all the pictures show the X2 as well.

    In regards to the comments to my recklessness in spending money....

    The S5 frames for Scandinavia were sold out in less than 5 hours after launch, and it is about 5 mnth lead time before any more arrives. If I decide that I prefer the EVO, I will just sell it (hopefully at a minimum loss).

    Also, I have been eyeballing a Pole Evolink for almost 6 months, and the Enduro is basically identical except for the travel numbers, so that helped a lot. I have demoed the Pole, so I know most of the geometry numbers suit me.

    As for the EVO, I am just coming off 6 lift assisted days in the Alps, and it almost handled everything I threw at it. The only thing I was missing was a little more smoothness, and based on the reviews, I should be getting that with the new Enduro.

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    My first thought when seeing the new bike: Man I am going to miss the old x-frame design. The old enduro was one of the coolest looking bikes out there and unique looking. I would only assume though that the new bike is better, but I still like the looks of the old one.

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    Hi, did you guys noticed that the reach and stack numbers were removed from the Specialized site for the Enduro 29? Something wrong or correction in progress?

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    Indeed they have, still on pinkbike/etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by paulcd View Post
    The S-Works reviews and photos I've seen all have a Fox X2 rear shock but the specs on Specialized's website (the photo still shows an X2) says Fox Float DHX2 Factory with a EVOL Air Sleeve. Is this a coil shock (or a typo)?
    I just hope that there will be an option with DHX2...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2020 Enduro Thread Try 2-screenshot-2019-08-15-17.09.48.jpg  


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    Quote Originally Posted by revver View Post
    Hi, did you guys noticed that the reach and stack numbers were removed from the Specialized site for the Enduro 29? Something wrong or correction in progress?
    It's also in the manual. But I think they are trying to get people to pick the bikes based on wheelbase and not obsess over individual geo numbers like reach and stack. Seems like anyone can ride 3 different sizes across the range. Most people I've talked to is saying S3 for a 5' 7ish guy like me which is kind of nuts. S3 is a large in many other bike brands. Honestly, a but confused with this S sizing thing. Throwing me for a loop.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ninjichor View Post
    Sounds like you can use a more linear spring rate and less sag to account for the low BB.

    I recommend a different bike for tall riders, because yes, the geo tells a story people often overlook: the weight bias of the bike. This is a critical concept in motor vehicle design, but often overlooked on bicycles since riders are the biggest weight and they can shift their weight forward and back on their own. I firmly believe that the bike can be matched to peoples' natural riding style; forcing riders to ride outside of their natural style, adapting to the bike, is not ideal, such as forcing them to purposely put more weight on the front. The best riders look like they're smoothing out the terrain, using subtle positioning and technique that looks effortless; smooth is fast, and a rider on a dialed bike makes it look effortless.

    Too little weight on the front and it understeers. Too much on the front and it oversteers (rear slips and can possibly highside), and the drivewheel is more likely to slip on slippery ground (more likely to flip forward, over-the-bars, on a bike, and front wheel diving when airborne on drop/jump). It also affects suspension tuning, tire pressure, and general "attitude" (aggro vs defensive). Sitting on the saddle on most bikes gets you 70% rear weight bias (70:30), while standing up and pedaling gets a weight ratio that depends on the CS to WB proportions, ranging from 50:50 like on a small Ibis Ripley or an average long CS ebike, to 65:35 on a short CS bike with extra long wheelbase. I believe the sweet spot is around 57-60% on the rear. The rider on a 50:50 bike would be compelled to compensate for too much weight up front by shifting their weight back, hips behind the saddle, whenever their handling is nearing their limits.

    The problem with bike sizing is that their CS length doesn't change with the WB, so each bike rides noticeable different. People who are able to ride two sizes back to back will likely notice, but they may falsely attribute the feel to other things like reach, or difference in suspension, tire, riding condition, or riding technique. This is a legit performance difference, that people fool themselves into thinking that they can adapt to, having blind faith that because brand names are big and are supporting big names, they can't be wrong.

    There's different levels of wrong. It's not just absolutes. It's like 1+1 = 3 is less wrong than 1+1 = 66. I'm recommending to hold off, keeping what they have and modifying it in a way to get what they're looking for in a S5 Enduro, and to demo before recklessly spending money. Spec is like others that have this same sizing issue. Forbidden Druid is one of the few bike designs that seemingly accounts for a rider in vehicle dynamics regarding the system's center of mass using polar coordinates. With this new system of sizing, Spec is essentially saying it's up to the rider to decide which size suits their style best. It's not about S5 fits 6' 0"+ riders and S4 is for riders 5'9 to 6' 2" (with overlap), it's about being able to choose from any size and going by feel. If you demo all the different sizes back to back, and S3 feels more effortless around corners and off drops compared to S2, S4, or S5, then pick it based off that, rather than picking it based on some questionable correlation between height and size. Maybe you might learn of the weight bias thing, where S2 has you off the back of the bike defensively riding, and S5 feels scary fast in the straights but is fun to pop up into the air off of bumps, but fails to carry much speed through the turns.
    This. 100%. But the reality is demoing bikes are not that easy. Most shops probably won't have all the S sizing for you to try if any. So many will be ordering. Specialized is the only company that doesn't publish any short of height to sizing recommendation to even give people a starting point.

    Without the CS size changing, what do you think was the optimal ratio they designed the bike for? S3? S4? Couldn't this be calculated? I recall reading most bikes had an optimal size.
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    Style Specific Sizing

    This is what Specialized showed during their presentation on sizing recommendations. This is how they are mapping it.

    2020 Enduro Thread Try 2-specialized-presentation.jpg
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    The is a bit strange, reach is the among the first number I see when choosing a bike. Btw, i am 5'4" approx, and i ride a Small Pole Machine, i will be choosing the S3 for the intended use of this bike. My friend who took over my Machine is around 5'7". We dont feel that stretch out on the Machine, the 450 reach with the rest of the numbers made us really balanced on the bike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ntinos P View Post
    I just hope that there will be an option with DHX2...
    Looks like they have mostly fixed up the wording, just the Float X2, some spots do however still say DHX2, but at this stage I'd say its a typo. Was hoping for a DHX2 as well

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    Quote Originally Posted by michaeldorian View Post
    This. 100%. But the reality is demoing bikes are not that easy. Most shops probably won't have all the S sizing for you to try if any. So many will be ordering. Specialized is the only company that doesn't publish any short of height to sizing recommendation to even give people a starting point.

    Without the CS size changing, what do you think was the optimal ratio they designed the bike for? S3? S4? Couldn't this be calculated? I recall reading most bikes had an optimal size.
    While I like what ninjichor has to say, calculating these biases only shows little variation in these longer bikes.
    Forbidden Druid - all bikes sit about 36% rear bias
    New Enduro - rear bias ranges 34-36%
    Pole Stamina - rear bias ranges 34-37%

    Unless I'm missing some other factor Ninji is including.

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    2020 Enduro Thread Try 2-enduro.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by ruiabreu View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Enduro.jpg 
Views:	237 
Size:	160.1 KB 
ID:	1272011
    Thanks for posting this.


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    Does anyone happen to know when any Canadian Shops (preferably in whistler) will have stock of the Framesets? Iíve got a mate over there for Crankworks and just had the brain wave maybe I can get him to bring me one back seeing how Australia wonít bring them in....

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    Quote Originally Posted by robnow View Post
    While I like what ninjichor has to say, calculating these biases only shows little variation in these longer bikes.
    Forbidden Druid - all bikes sit about 36% rear bias
    New Enduro - rear bias ranges 34-36%
    Pole Stamina - rear bias ranges 34-37%

    Unless I'm missing some other factor Ninji is including.
    I learned that it's not a formula, where you can divide the CS length by WB or FC. I did measurements on over a dozen bikes I had handy--I measured with scales under each wheel, stood on each bike, recorded values and determined weight bias by that. I also used some of the bikes that my taller friend had, like a Santa Cruz Bronson V1 in XL.

    The most simplified way I can show is by table:

    415mm CS, 1150mm WB
    420mm CS, 1170mm WB
    425 1190
    430 1210
    435 1230
    440 1250
    445 1270
    450 1290
    ...

    This simplified table is for my body size and my "centered" preference (static geo #, for a 6" FS bike w/65d HA). If you like a more defensive position add more length to the CS (think Tracy Moseley or Rachel Atherton, head behind the stem, looking over the bars). If you want a more aggro position, subtract more length from the CS (think Ratboy "love back wheel" style). I personally am more willing to ride a bike with 1220mm WB and 435mm CS, than a 1240mm WB with 435mm CS. I just use it as a quick guide to narrow down bike choices. For ebikes or bikes really slack or steep HTA, I account for the weight of the battery, dynamic geo from suspension compression (haven't really figured out how to account for reach-stack and/or RAD, since I go by a "heavy feet, light hands" style).

    The shorter the WB, the more sensitive the bike is to weight shifts, and the less picky the rider is (and more likely they are to mess up and fall). The longer the WB, the more the bike needs to be dialed from the get go, since it's not as sensitive to weight shifts. It's quite odd that all these guys offering long bikes are not working a sales model where they offer riders demos, when they need it most. Gotta get people to carve turns at their limit and fly off drops and jumps to get a feel for it.

    Just think about it, have you ever "overforked" a bike and felt it improved it? Was it partly because it needed a longer front center anyways, according to the table? Do you tall guys ever wonder why shorter folk always ride bikes with a ton of travel (overbiked), when you are riding the same terrain at about the same speed on a shorter travel or undersized bike that shouldn't technically fit you? Perhaps is it because shorter travel bikes are more in your weight bias sweet spot, and longer travel ones are in their weight bias sweet spot?

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    The most shocking thing I learned from my friend's XL is that his bike's seated position had a ridiculous amount of weight on the rear when seated. It was a huge difference between the seated and standing position, going from over 70% rear wheel bias when seated to 55% or so when standing. It was no wonder that he couldn't figure out how to set rear shocks properly and always went for custom tuning. Either it was too soft when he was sitting, or too firm when standing. I suppose this is one thing that a steeper STA fixes, but I don't know about these bikes with the seats angled as slack as the fork, which post a virtual STA based on the height of the head tube, rather than based on various seat heights... my Jekyll was 68% while seated and even that gave me trouble, despite weighing about half of what my friend weighed.

    I recall he told me that he used technique to sit on the tip of his saddle, and jack-knifed his body (torso angled down-forward) for climbs. I never had to do that really for my bikes, probably because they were not so rearward biased in the saddle.

  156. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by ninjichor View Post
    The most shocking thing I learned from my friend's XL is that his bike's seated position had a ridiculous amount of weight on the rear when seated. It was a huge difference between the seated and standing position, going from over 70% rear wheel bias when seated to 55% or so when standing. It was no wonder that he couldn't figure out how to set rear shocks properly and always went for custom tuning. Either it was too soft when he was sitting, or too firm when standing. I suppose this is one thing that a steeper STA fixes, but I don't know about these bikes with the seats angled as slack as the fork, which post a virtual STA based on the height of the head tube, rather than based on various seat heights... my Jekyll was 68% while seated and even that gave me trouble, despite weighing about half of what my friend weighed.
    I'd say a 70/30 rear to front when seated bias is pretty normal. I don't think anyone should set their bike up for seated riding anyway. And once you've pointed the bike downhill the bias changes again. My eternal dilemma is setting my bike up for the 10% of the riding when I really need it. IE I ride for two hours, and twenty minutes of it tops is flying downhill, the rest is flat or climbing to the fun bits. But those parts aren't taxing on the suspension and I don't tend to need precise control.
    My only concession is opening LSC at both ends when I get tired and I'm riding back.
    I have checked the front to rear bias before, I can actually sit on the bike and not compress the fork at all.

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    Got damn you guys are going nuts! I stopped by my Specialized Dealer to speak with him on the new enduro. The new enduro frame right now is cheaper than last years x-frame type so frame only is the way to go. I'm still waiting to get a measurement on the rear arches because I need 3.0". If it's too narrow then in a few months it would be a great time to get a discounted old x-style frame.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ninjichor View Post
    I learned that it's not a formula, where you can divide the CS length by WB or FC. I did measurements on over a dozen bikes I had handy--I measured with scales under each wheel, stood on each bike, recorded values and determined weight bias by that. I also used some of the bikes that my taller friend had, like a Santa Cruz Bronson V1 in XL.

    The most simplified way I can show is by table:

    415mm CS, 1150mm WB
    420mm CS, 1170mm WB
    425 1190
    430 1210
    435 1230
    440 1250
    445 1270
    450 1290
    ...

    This simplified table is for my body size and my "centered" preference (static geo #, for a 6" FS bike w/65d HA). If you like a more defensive position add more length to the CS (think Tracy Moseley or Rachel Atherton, head behind the stem, looking over the bars). If you want a more aggro position, subtract more length from the CS (think Ratboy "love back wheel" style). I personally am more willing to ride a bike with 1220mm WB and 435mm CS, than a 1240mm WB with 435mm CS. I just use it as a quick guide to narrow down bike choices. For ebikes or bikes really slack or steep HTA, I account for the weight of the battery, dynamic geo from suspension compression (haven't really figured out how to account for reach-stack and/or RAD, since I go by a "heavy feet, light hands" style).

    The shorter the WB, the more sensitive the bike is to weight shifts, and the less picky the rider is (and more likely they are to mess up and fall). The longer the WB, the more the bike needs to be dialed from the get go, since it's not as sensitive to weight shifts. It's quite odd that all these guys offering long bikes are not working a sales model where they offer riders demos, when they need it most. Gotta get people to carve turns at their limit and fly off drops and jumps to get a feel for it.

    Just think about it, have you ever "overforked" a bike and felt it improved it? Was it partly because it needed a longer front center anyways, according to the table? Do you tall guys ever wonder why shorter folk always ride bikes with a ton of travel (overbiked), when you are riding the same terrain at about the same speed on a shorter travel or undersized bike that shouldn't technically fit you? Perhaps is it because shorter travel bikes are more in your weight bias sweet spot, and longer travel ones are in their weight bias sweet spot?
    Forgive the thread drift but since no one is talking about the new Enduro...kidding, it looks really good and Specialized knocked it out of the park on this one, will be interesting to hear more reviews as they roll in.

    I like your numbers ninjichor and you seem to be the main proponent on FC/RC in these parts, the only one talking about it anyways. I'm struggling after riding XL Yeti130+150 and SC Mega+Hightower2, especially focusing between 150 and Mega. I rode the Mega in the Long chain stay position (445) and preferred it, rode more naturally/intuitively and obviously climbed much better (actually climbed like shit in the short). The Yeti with a steeper SA but more skewed FC/RC climbed AMAZINGLY, but definitely feels longer in the front when descending.

    On paper the Mega 'fits' better and more balanced but suspension doesn't feel great (changing shock would go a long way from the stock M/M tune) and climbs like a turd compared to the Yeti, but then the Yeti has the limo like front end to contend with for the downs. I also have a buddy riding for Forbidden and need to talk to him about his experiences (also XL).

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    Suspension linkage design needs size specific tuning too, because a taller rider's CoG is higher than a shorter rider's.

    Anti-squat is determined by this:



    Someone with shorter legs will have lower CoM. That lowers the 100% reference point, and the AS% at full extension ends up way higher, and therefore shorter folk suffer from high AS% and kickback.

    On the other hand, someone taller has a higher CoM, which raises the 100% reference point to be closer. Designers assume the extra length of the front end allows the AS line to high the front axle line further, and gain more height, but they only add like 25mm, which is like half a thumb's length. A taller person gets way less AS%...

    It might be 110% AS at full extension for a rider with 30" inseam in size S3, but for someone with 36" inseam and S5, it might be like 80% AS or less. Just imagine how tall your saddle is above the grips, to get a general idea where the "100% AS reference line" is for you. My saddle is generally level with the grips, like in the pic above--this is why I feel this Enduro is great for me, but feel there are better choices for taller folks.

    To understand how to calc AS:
    - blue lines converge at the "instant center" (which is the virtual pivot point that determines the rear axle path)
    -- I "eye'd" them for full compression
    - the red-orange line is just a line from instant center to the rear axle. It is like the virtual swingarm, if this were a single/mono pivot design
    - the yellow line is the chain line. Where the chain crosses the swingarm, is called the center-of-curvature (CoC). AS comes from your chain tension. It's like pulling a string that is taped to a door knob, and angling it to either make your pulling force to turn the doorknob or swing the door open/closed.
    - The CoC is then used as a point for the anti-squat line, which is drawn from the rear contact patch, through the CoC, until it reaches the front contact patch line
    - The rider+bike's CoM is what causes the squat in the first place, with it creating a "rearward weight shift" as the vehicle moves forward. Think about how suddenly accelerating with someone sitting on your shoulder does to the mass on top... it's an expected force, and one that the vehicle can counter by itself through design, rather than compromise by having the shock do it, or the rider to do it.

    The problem with designs today, is that I suspect designers really just "eye" the CoM for 1 size that they may have built a prototype mule for, and just do the typical add/subtract 25 to reach/ETT and 40mm to seat tube to create the other sizes. I suspect that Forbidden Bikes calculated their CoMs. Who knows, maybe they got a simulation program that does what I do with weight scales under the wheels, done nearly instantly on the computer.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2020 Enduro Thread Try 2-foooi7x.jpg  


  160. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by ninjichor View Post
    Suspension linkage design needs size specific tuning too, because a taller rider's CoG is higher than a shorter rider's.

    Anti-squat is determined by this:



    Someone with shorter legs will have lower CoM. That lowers the 100% reference point, and the AS% at full extension ends up way higher, and therefore shorter folk suffer from high AS% and kickback.

    On the other hand, someone taller has a higher CoM, which raises the 100% reference point to be closer. Designers assume the extra length of the front end allows the AS line to high the front axle line further, and gain more height, but they only add like 25mm, which is like half a thumb's length. A taller person gets way less AS%...

    It might be 110% AS at full extension for a rider with 30" inseam in size S3, but for someone with 36" inseam and S5, it might be like 80% AS or less. Just imagine how tall your saddle is above the grips, to get a general idea where the "100% AS reference line" is for you. My saddle is generally level with the grips, like in the pic above--this is why I feel this Enduro is great for me, but feel there are better choices for taller folks.

    To understand how to calc AS:
    - blue lines converge at the "instant center" (which is the virtual pivot point that determines the rear axle path)
    -- I "eye'd" them for full compression
    - the red-orange line is just a line from instant center to the rear axle. It is like the virtual swingarm, if this were a single/mono pivot design
    - the yellow line is the chain line. where the chain crosses the swingarm, is called the center-of-curvature (CoC)
    - The CoC is then used as a point for the anti-squat line, which is drawn from the rear contact patch, through the CoC, until it reaches the front contact patch line
    - The rider+bike's CoM is what causes the squat in the first place, with it creating a "rearward weight shift" as the vehicle moves forward. Think about how suddenly accelerating with someone sitting on your shoulder does to the mass on top... it's an expected force, and one that the vehicle can counter by itself through design, rather than compromise by having the shock do it, or the rider to do it.

    The problem with designs today, is that I suspect designers really just "eye" the CoM for 1 size that they may have built a prototype mule for, and just do the typical add/subtract 25 to reach/ETT and 40mm to seat tube to create the other sizes. I suspect that Forbidden Bikes calculated their CoMs. Who knows, maybe they got a simulation program that does what I do with weight scales under the wheels, done nearly instantly on the computer.
    Thanks for posting this. Love reading about this type of stuff. Btw, you mentioned a lot of number but didnít see what youíre preference was on this bike.

    How tall are you and if you were to get one, which size?

    Theoretically, given a height you could roughly calculate what youíre saying and give height recommendations for the S style sizing?


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  161. #161
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    Size S is quite doomed to rarely ever get a bike that lets them get a centered position. I can only name 1 bike off the top of my head that might fit this description:

    The Forbidden Druid (dialed in all sizes)
    Just remembered: GG Shred Dogg

    I'd recommend a -2d Works headset and maybe a longer fork to get an extra 20mm front center, if you order size small versions of bikes that are good in medium:

    Canfield Riot
    Intense Recluse
    Cannondale Jekyll 27.5
    Yeti SB150
    Pivot Firebird
    Spec Enduro 2020 (S3)
    GG MegaTrail, TrailPistol (Size 2, Long)
    Whyte T130, G170, S150, and other ones getting rave reviews
    Kona's aggro models like the Process 153 29 and Honzo
    Transition's SBG models are okay for medium too

    -----

    The vast majority of bikes that the media raves about hits the numbers in my table in size large, and also have very good suspension tune. Just check... they even say stuff like preferring the SB130 over the SB150 (if the testers are known to be size large, 5' 9" or so, like the two Pinkbike Mikes)

    Canyon Strive 29 is prob the one that impresses me the most, but options like the Ripmo and La Sal Peak are neat in their own ways.

    ----

    I'm 170cm/5' 7". I sometimes pick L, accepting a compromise with 18" (460mm) seat tubes, only able to fit a 125mm dropper on them, if I switch the cranks to 165 and wear shoes with thick sole and a thick pedal. I can get a 150mm on a 420mm seat tube. I honestly don't care about reach, since it can be tuned with stem length, and I don't believe in the stem length for performance myth.

    I got this 42 lb beast (frame weighed over 9 lbs without shock and dropouts):


    - see the seat tube and where it connects to the downtube... the BB is just freefloating on a short section of downtube unsupported, and I think the resulting flex may not be a bad thing

    Speaking of stems, I went from 35mm to 60mm with 20d rise. Took less than a few hours to adapt. I'm running it reverse-ebike-style, with a draggy ass rear tire, getting resistance (rather than assistance). Seriously, I'm averaging 12 MPH on the road compared to 15.5 MPH normally. xD

    The steel frame is extremely mash-friendly. I don't feel the resistance in the pedals from the drivetrain. I feel the frame winding up instead, and it just seemingly keeps chugging along smoothly. It's essentially resistance to stalling out. People think flex and bob is inefficient, but when it feels like this, I feel like it enables heavy bikes. I don't think 160mm bikes are slower due to travel alone, it's mostly just the tires killing your wattage. I think DHR2 are the best all around AM tires on the market (check out the results that show it has rolling resistance that rivals the Ardent - https://www.bike-magazin.de/komponen...455-page5.html).

    See the GMBN video, to see why frame flex at the BB might not be a bad thing for efficiency (bad thing for chainstay clearance though): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BH_AL4rxrp8

    Ya, this Enduro ain't extreme at all. People are thinking zomg reach is longer by half a thumb length, and I'm here with a 490mm reach (feeling more comfortable with a 60mm +20D rise stem over 35mm!!!) and a 82d seat tube angle. My seated position is like 5" behind my standing position... my torso and arm length can allow for a much longer reach, similar in length to a typical ETT. Seat tubes can get steeper than 82, reach can get much longer than 500mm... HA probably should stop at 63ish, else it feels like a DH bike. I'd like to see increased fork offset to allow for slacker HA, not shorter offset. WB length correlates with STA, the steeper the STA, the longer the WB, but I'd raise the stack to over 650mm, else comfort on level ground will suffer for tall folk. My frame lacks production polish and tolerance/precision, and the leverage ratio is too linear, narrowing my shock choice (the old Demo and earlier Enduro 29s had this problem). I think the old E29 short-stroked shock actually cut out the air can's end stroke ramp up too...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2020 Enduro Thread Try 2-p5pb17190421.jpg  


  162. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by ninjichor View Post
    Size S is quite doomed to rarely ever get a bike that lets them get a centered position. I can only name 1 bike off the top of my head that might fit this description:

    The Forbidden Druid (dialed in all sizes)
    Just remembered: GG Shred Dogg

    I'd recommend a -2d Works headset and maybe a longer fork to get an extra 20mm front center, if you order size small versions of bikes that are good in medium:

    Canfield Riot
    Intense Recluse
    Cannondale Jekyll 27.5
    Yeti SB150
    Pivot Firebird
    Spec Enduro 2020 (S3)
    GG MegaTrail, TrailPistol (Size 2, Long)
    Whyte T130, G170, S150, and other ones getting rave reviews
    Kona's aggro models like the Process 153 29 and Honzo
    Transition's SBG models are okay for medium too

    -----

    The vast majority of bikes that the media raves about hits the numbers in my table in size large, and also have very good suspension tune. Just check... they even say stuff like preferring the SB130 over the SB150 (if the testers are known to be size large, 5' 9" or so, like the two Pinkbike Mikes)

    Canyon Strive 29 is prob the one that impresses me the most, but options like the Ripmo and La Sal Peak are neat in their own ways.

    ----

    I'm 170cm/5' 7". I sometimes pick L, accepting a compromise with 18" (460mm) seat tubes, only able to fit a 125mm dropper on them, if I switch the cranks to 165 and wear shoes with thick sole and a thick pedal. I can get a 150mm on a 420mm seat tube. I honestly don't care about reach, since it can be tuned with stem length, and I don't believe in the stem length for performance myth.

    I got this 42 lb beast (frame weighed over 9 lbs without shock and dropouts):


    - see the seat tube and where it connects to the downtube... the BB is just freefloating on a short section of downtube unsupported, and I think the resulting flex may not be a bad thing

    Speaking of stems, I went from 35mm to 60mm with 20d rise. Took less than a few hours to adapt. I'm running it reverse-ebike-style, with a draggy ass rear tire, getting resistance (rather than assistance). Seriously, I'm averaging 12 MPH on the road compared to 15.5 MPH normally. xD

    The steel frame is extremely mash-friendly. I don't feel the resistance in the pedals from the drivetrain. I feel the frame winding up instead, and it just seemingly keeps chugging along smoothly. It's essentially resistance to stalling out. People think flex and bob is inefficient, but when it feels like this, I feel like it enables heavy bikes. I don't think 160mm bikes are slower due to travel alone, it's mostly just the tires killing your wattage. I think DHR2 are the best all around AM tires on the market (check out the results that show it has rolling resistance that rivals the Ardent - https://www.bike-magazin.de/komponen...455-page5.html).

    See the GMBN video, to see why frame flex at the BB might not be a bad thing for efficiency (bad thing for chainstay clearance though): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BH_AL4rxrp8

    Ya, this Enduro ain't extreme at all. People are thinking zomg reach is longer by half a thumb length, and I'm here with a 490mm reach (feeling more comfortable with a 60mm +20D rise stem over 35mm!!!) and a 82d seat tube angle. My seated position is like 5" behind my standing position... my torso and arm length can allow for a much longer reach, similar in length to a typical ETT. Seat tubes can get steeper than 82, reach can get much longer than 500mm... HA probably should stop at 63ish, else it feels like a DH bike. I'd like to see increased fork offset to allow for slacker HA, not shorter offset. WB length correlates with STA, the steeper the STA, the longer the WB, but I'd raise the stack to over 650mm, else comfort on level ground will suffer for tall folk. My frame lacks production polish and tolerance/precision, and the leverage ratio is too linear, narrowing my shock choice (the old Demo and earlier Enduro 29s had this problem). I think the old E29 short-stroked shock actually cut out the air can's end stroke ramp up too...
    Wow. Thanks for that answer. Based on your recommendations above, Iím also 5í 7Ē 170cm so the Enduro in S3 is actually not to big at all and should be pretty perfect based on what youíre saying.


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  163. #163
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    Wow, you are going all out with the bike geo/kinematics analysis.

    Where as Iím like: I may want this bike because it has a swat box, internal cable routing, and much better quality paint than my Sentinel.

  164. #164
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    Whatís the max tire size

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    At 5í10Ē Iím having a hard time deciding between s3 and s4. Current bikes reach is 18Ē but thinking I want to go longer and s3 is only 18.3 which probably wouldnít be that noticeable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronJobe View Post
    At 5í10Ē Iím having a hard time deciding between s3 and s4. Current bikes reach is 18Ē but thinking I want to go longer and s3 is only 18.3 which probably wouldnít be that noticeable.
    For what itís worth, all the reviewers 5í 10Ē and above were given S4ís to ride. So it appears that is what Spesh is kind of recommending. You can go to S3 if you want it to be more playful and nimble.

    I reached out to Brad Benedict and 5í 7Ē he suggested I get an S3. I was leaning towards S2.


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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronJobe View Post
    Whatís the max tire size
    The manual list 2.6.


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    IMPORTANT: For everyone deciding on frame size all I can say is that if you have never really ridden a progressive (long, low and slack) bike (SB130, SB150, Stumpy EVO, ext.) for an extended period of time you may want to reel yourself in a bit because the sizes they are recommending will ensure a lot of people spend their money wishing they had made a different decision. Namely, picking the smaller of the 2 frame sizes you're torn between.

    I'm 5'9" and currently own a 27.5" Stumpy EVO in an S2 with a 470 reach (high) and 1231 wheelbase (160 fork) and while it's great for high speed / decent stability given the "inside the bike" feeling it requires a COMPLETELY different style of riding and some sacrifices will have to be made. You have to deliberately weight the front to maintain front wheel grip in any type of corner and your ability to bunnyhop, manual and do any sort of low speed turn or tight switchback will feel like a good bit of work and eventually wear you down on long rides if you can't lean aggressively. Meaning, it's not really an ideal all-around / trail bike obviously but if you're 5'7" getting an S4 because of all the hype then you potentially just made a very expensive mistake and just because the seat tubes are low across the board giving you more "options" does not mean you should exercise them.

    I myself will be getting an S2 (Med) or S3 (Med Long) frame and after owning the EVO I'm leaning towards the S2 as LT 29er's are already a lot of bike to manage. So unless you race competitively chasing seconds, I would strongly suggest picking the lower of the 2 sizes you're torn between. Either way, you can't lose and I don't see anyone being under gunned by picking the more "nimble" size because of the wheelbase numbers are spot on for stability and I wouldn't call any of the sizes truly nimble for me to begin with.
    Last edited by swift685; 08-18-2019 at 03:03 PM.

  169. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by swift685 View Post
    IMPORTANT: For everyone deciding on frame size all I can say is that if you have never really ridden a progressive (long, low and slack) bike (SB130, SB150, Stumpy EVO, ext.) for an extended period of time you may want to reel yourself in a bit because the sizes they are recommending will ensure a lot of people spend their money wishing they had made a different decision. Namely, picking the smaller of the 2 frame sizes you're torn between.

    I'm 5'9" and currently own a Stumpy EVO in an S2 with a 470 reach (high) and 1231 wheelbase (160 fork) and while it's great for high speed / decent stability given the "inside the bike" feeling it requires a COMPLETELY different style of riding and some sacrifices will have to be made. You have to deliberately weight the front to maintain front wheel grip in any type of corner and your ability to bunnyhop, manual and do any sort of low speed turn or tight switchback will feel like a good bit of work and eventually wear you down on long rides if you can't lean aggressively. Meaning, it's not really an ideal all-around / trail bike obviously but if you're 5'7" getting an S4 because of all the hype then you potentially just made a very expensive mistake and just because the seat tubes are low across the board giving you more "options" does not mean you should exercise them.

    I myself will be getting an S2 (Med) or S3 (Med Long) frame and after owning the EVO I'm leaning towards the S2 as LT 29er's are already a lot of bike to manage. So unless you race competitively chasing seconds, I would strongly suggest picking the lower of the 2 sizes you're torn between. Either way, you can't lose and I don't see anyone being under gunned by picking the more "nimble" size because of the wheelbase numbers are spot on for stability and I wouldn't call any of the sizes truly nimble for me to begin with.
    Darn. You got me questing my S3 frame order. I had an S2 EVO 29 at 445 and it felt pretty dialed reach wise. WB was long for sure. The S3 Enduro is smaller than the S2 EVO 29 on reach. I do agree with you that LT 29 bikes are already wild as it is. Let us know what you decide. If you're looking at the Enduro as a AM/Trail bike than sizing down down does make sense. Crazy that Specialized is categorizing the S2 as a size small and their chart is saying traditional small riders should choose between S2, S3 and traditional medium riders S3, S4.

    If you get a chance to pedal around an S2 let us know what you think.
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    Long wheelbase bikes are less sensitive to rider input, including the technique you want to use for manuals. At the same time, you will feel less feedback from the ground, delaying the feeling that your limits are being challenged until the impacts are greater. It's because the wheels are further away from you; it's not too unlike sitting central on a limo between its wheels, or sitting in the center section of a rollercoaster.

    This is why I say that it's far more vital to get the bike's weight balance dialed. Dialed is subjective. For me, I like to stand with my legs relatively in-line with the pull of gravity, and put a lot of weight into it. I DON'T like to have my weight back, with my arms fairly stretched, nor do I like to have my heels dipped. I like having the ability to pump, and be ready to bunnyhop, and have the pedal axle-mid foot, so I use my glutes and upper leg rather than my achilles and calf to stabilize my feet. Sure if your normal position is hanging back, you can say that you personally have to weight the front on an EVO, but my normal position meshes well with the S3 EVO to ride effortlessly (dialed). I'd rather have S3 Enduro because of the shorter seat tube and taller BB than the S3 Stumpy EVO.

    I'm just straight up saying that those who might choose S4 and S5 should look for another bike instead, or at least demo before buying. I will repeat for emphasis, long wheelbase bikes need to be dialed from the get go. I highly doubt anyone is going to be riding like Ratboy in Madeira Dreamin' on a 1270+mm WB bike--this is a bike for speed.

  171. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by swift685 View Post
    IMPORTANT: For everyone deciding on frame size all I can say is that if you have never really ridden a progressive (long, low and slack) bike (SB130, SB150, Stumpy EVO, ext.) for an extended period of time you may want to reel yourself in a bit because the sizes they are recommending will ensure a lot of people spend their money wishing they had made a different decision. Namely, picking the smaller of the 2 frame sizes you're torn between.

    I'm 5'9" and currently own a Stumpy EVO in an S2 with a 470 reach (high) and 1231 wheelbase (160 fork) and while it's great for high speed / decent stability given the "inside the bike" feeling it requires a COMPLETELY different style of riding and some sacrifices will have to be made. You have to deliberately weight the front to maintain front wheel grip in any type of corner and your ability to bunnyhop, manual and do any sort of low speed turn or tight switchback will feel like a good bit of work and eventually wear you down on long rides if you can't lean aggressively. Meaning, it's not really an ideal all-around / trail bike obviously but if you're 5'7" getting an S4 because of all the hype then you potentially just made a very expensive mistake and just because the seat tubes are low across the board giving you more "options" does not mean you should exercise them.

    I myself will be getting an S2 (Med) or S3 (Med Long) frame and after owning the EVO I'm leaning towards the S2 as LT 29er's are already a lot of bike to manage. So unless you race competitively chasing seconds, I would strongly suggest picking the lower of the 2 sizes you're torn between. Either way, you can't lose and I don't see anyone being under gunned by picking the more "nimble" size because of the wheelbase numbers are spot on for stability and I wouldn't call any of the sizes truly nimble for me to begin with.
    They do remind me of Tron bikes whenever I see someone on one.

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    2020 Enduro Thread Try 2

    Since weíre all discussing sizing, I came across this article on Pinkbike that was pretty insightful. @Ninjichor, does this match youíre thinking?

    https://m.pinkbike.com/news/bike-fas...r-opinion.html


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  173. #173
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    The the thing is humans want a black and white answer, whereas the reality is at least 20 shades of grey.

    Hereís the variables;

    1. The riders height and weight.
    2. The riders leg to torso/arm ratio.
    3. The riders ability - How able is the rider to load the bars when cornering?
    4. The terrain - How steep is the local terrain? Low angle flow of steep tech?
    5. The bikes F-R weight ratio. Front and rear centre lengths.
    6. The bikes suspension kinematics. How much (or little) spring rate does the rider have to run to achieve initial grip sensitivity without causing large dynamic geometry changes etc.
    7. Tires. Casing, tread, pressure. Change anyone of these and you affect grip balance.
    8. Stem length.

    Etc, etc. Manufacturers want you to believe that their latest and greatest will turn you into a better rider. The fact is it can take years/decades of riding in the same terrain to work out what is optimal for the individual and if you get the majority of the fundamentals above right, or even know roughly what you need, youíll be many steps ahead of the marketing.

    Good luck!

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    Quote Originally Posted by michaeldorian View Post
    Since weíre all discussing sizing, I came across this article on Pinkbike that was pretty insightful. @Ninjichor, does this match youíre thinking?

    https://m.pinkbike.com/news/bike-fas...r-opinion.html


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    That author overestimates fit for roadies. The long reach is fine--I call that hips-forward position a centered position. I think it's very strong, since I can loosen my grip to just my fingers and still stay stable. Legs being in-line with gravity, and closer to the standing pedaling position is what I thought is a game changer, as less time is wasted switching to diff positions.

    The roadie discipline blatantly says that it is stuffed with rules to allow the race to be more about the athleticism, than the machine. Science is limited by the UCI rules to keep the playing field relatively leveled.

    Specificity is a HUGE factor, especially for static seated positions. What keeps the geo fairly limited, is the fit system and the sheer amount of training specificity the elite riders invest time into. The fit system is intended to get as much of the training transferred over to the newer bike, while also perhaps looking into aerodynamics, and preventing overuse injury. Someone who spend 1000s of hours training on a Trek Madone, won't be able to utilize all that training to the fullest on a TT bike or XC mtb most likely, due to the different positioning, from different seat angle, to hip angle.

    Human habits die hard, and familiarity is an extremely strong decision making factor, especially for the conservatively-minded. Someone could be shown 100s of pictures of Fabien Barel, Nico Voullouz, Loic Bruni, Aaron Gwin, Greg Minnaar in their top form, saying this is the ideal-goal, but that familiarity force will be so strong that a noob will disregard that, and think there's some order to the process, and that they need to follow it. They'll say they're different and would try to reinforce their opinion through agreement from someone like-minded, perhaps also a noob, going with whatever is trendy for them, like an affordable 29er, that's short travel for low-risk riding, from a familiar brand like Diamondback, GT, Trek, Giant, perhaps opening up to Marin which they might see at a bike shop catering to newbies. They might have gotten an impression that Spec is expensive and is an evil corp, and wouldn't want to be seen on one, lest some new scandal surfaces that they haven't heard of, like Spec factory workers being worked like a sweat shop. Well, this paragraph probably doesn't apply to those more liberally or ambitiously-minded, but just saying that money talks, and ambitions and liberal thinking processes like "life is short (or an adventure)" tend to be limited/anchored down by responsibilities like career-duties, dependents, financial burdens, etc. so brands are targeting this type.

    What ends up happening is people end up on "hybrids", bikes that are based on road tradition and maintain similar fit to allow for training from the road to carry over to dirt, but look like mountain bikes, equipped with suspension fork and knobby tires, made with "big-boned" tubing. The long-low-slack thing can be liberally applied to these hybrids, but some brands interpreted it differently. When I think low, I don't think lower BB, I think CoG low, and lower top tube and seat tube for more standover clearance. Long and slack go together, in creating a longer front center. What triggers me most on road bikes is toe-overlap. I use a quick visual test that quickly disqualifies bikes based on geo--there's so many different options available, some cookie-cutter, than I feel compelled to be extra picky. The quick test is basically looking at a bike's side shot, with cranks level, and seeing if the forward crank's pedal hole is the center point between the wheels (equidistant between the tires). If it looked close, it was worth a look for me; if the front tire was too close, I wouldn't bother (exceptions for super long/short WB bikes).

    The sad reality is people are accustomed to the rearward position (pictured below) from riding road-inspired bikes (and from downsizing on bikes). I wish more people appreciated a more gravity, or purely mountain bike-inspired position, but sadly it's seen as "high risk", rather than a position that makes you better prepared to handle such scary terrain easier. See VitalMTB's G-out project pictures, to get an idea of what kind of hip position is "strong" (weight-lifter's squat position vs balls caught in tire position?):

    https://www.vitalmtb.com/tags/g-out_..._vital_feature
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    FYI - Just to give everyone even more perspective on the S sizing. The Enduro S2 is equivalent to the new Scott Ransom size Medium, almost a perfect copy numbers wise actually and the Ransom is an enduro race machine that can easily go head to head with the SB150 while stilling being called progressive yet nimble.

    That said the S3 is closer to the Yeti SB150 size Medium numbers wise which begs to go fast all the damn time and is a true race sled built for maximum speed. But Richie Rude is one built dude which is how he can throw it around like it's a 27.5 park bike but for everyone else, it's a lot of bike to manipulate on your average Blue trail.

    Either way, you win. But it's 100% preference and riding style. So if you cant demo the new enduro then demo either of those 2 and you'll get the idea enough to decide.

  176. #176
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    If youíre riding average blue trails for sure size down. Maybe there are better bikes for that type of riding.

    The medium ransom is a tad larger in reach then the S2 but same wheelbase for sure. A tad smaller when seated too. Looks like the S2 in random form is like a Small-Med and the S2 is Med-Large. I can see why Specialized is showing the 2 size per person thing.

    I went and looked at the S3 today at a local shop. They couldnít let me sit on it (bolted to the display) but it looks like a big bike!

    I have a Medium LEVO which is 435 reach and felt I could easily use more reach on that bike. If youíre in attack position and hips and weight centered over the bottom bracket, I felt I could easily use an 1 or so more reach.

    The S2 is 437. The medium stumpy ST is 435. So that could be used for standing feel too for S2.


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  177. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by swift685 View Post
    FYI - Just to give everyone even more perspective on the S sizing. The Enduro S2 is equivalent to the new Scott Ransom size Medium, almost a perfect copy numbers wise actually and the Ransom is an enduro race machine that can easily go head to head with the SB150 while stilling being called progressive yet nimble.

    That said the S3 is closer to the Yeti SB150 size Medium numbers wise which begs to go fast all the damn time and is a true race sled built for maximum speed. But Richie Rude is one built dude which is how he can throw it around like it's a 27.5 park bike but for everyone else, it's a lot of bike to manipulate on your average Blue trail.

    Either way, you win. But it's 100% preference and riding style. So if you cant demo the new enduro then demo either of those 2 and you'll get the idea enough to decide.
    I agree with this though. If youíre getting it as your all around trail bike. From blue trails to occasional park rides and everything inbetween youíre probably better off downsizing for someone inbetween S2-S3.


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  178. #178
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    I was up at Crankworx Whistler on Wednesday, unfortunately Specialized wasnít running demos until this weekend, but I rode a S5 in the parking lot. Iím 6í3Ē 215 lbs, but I was surprised that it didnít feel that big. I currently ride a gen 3 SC Nomad.
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    If comparing to the SB150 the S3 is as long wheelbase as the large SB150. Come to think of it, itís 1mm off the large. And only 5mm shorter top tube to the large.

    Damn. Maybe this S3 is mega giant. How the heck are they recommending S3 for 5í 7Ē folks.


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  180. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by davemk View Post
    I was up at Crankworx Whistler on Wednesday, unfortunately Specialized wasnít running demos until this weekend, but I rode a S5 in the parking lot. Iím 6í3Ē 215 lbs, but I was surprised that it didnít feel that big. I currently ride a gen 3 SC Nomad.
    Thanks. Maybe bike nerding out is not telling the whole story. I guess just got to pedal one.


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  181. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaeldorian View Post
    Thanks. Maybe bike nerding out is not telling the whole story. I guess just got to pedal one.


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    ⬆️ This....all the internet armchair engineering in the world canít replace a long demo on a real trail. I'm trying to get a real demo set up before I order.
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  182. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by davemk View Post
    This....all the internet armchair engineering in the world canít replace a long demo on a real trail. I trying to get a real demo set up before I order.
    Keep us posted after you ride one. Was messaging with the product manager from Spesh and they legit recommend S3 for me and my buddy. Iím 5í 7Ē and heís 5í 6Ē. The guy must know something being the designer and all.

    Will also see if I can snag a ride somewhere. I havenít even been able to sit on one.




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  183. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by davemk View Post
    ⬆️ This....all the internet armchair engineering in the world canít replace a long demo on a real trail. I trying to get a real demo set up before I order.
    Ya, fit is one thing, but getting a feel of how it corners at the limits of traction is another.

    The issue I'm trying to highlight is that if the CS is too short for the WB, like it is in the case for that S5, the front will proportionally be more prone to understeer and washout in cornering. It will really have you wanting to compensate for that, by getting the most grippy front tire you can find, most advanced suspension tune, and then finally hundreds of miles of cornering practice with a riding position/technique that weights the front, or part changes that "increase leverage over the front" (longer stem, wider bars). Maybe braking up front would be kinda sketchy too, leading to multiple going wide-off-the-trail moments.

    Compare that to your Nomad... bet you would be less confident in any case you had to turn, and felt like the higher speed the long wheelbase confidently allows you to go was resulting in coming in too hot compared to your Nomad, and that it would take time to overcome fear on the Enduro, to get your times to rival the Nomad. You might like how the front floats over bumps, drops, and jumps though, feeling more playful than you expected a bike with its WB to feel at speed, despite having more trouble getting the wheel off the ground as high as you're used to in the parking lot. I think you'd prefer downsizing, to get a more familiar feel, if you even consider it a clear upgrade over that Nomad (vs spending the cash to fix up the Nomad).

    I've said that people are over-reacting over Reach. How much, a whole 30mm of it? 50? That fear is worse than any arm chair engineering. At least with the science, you are open to trying to understand things, rather than just putting faith into others to interpret things through emotions experienced on a real trail ride.

  184. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by swift685 View Post
    IMPORTANT: For everyone deciding on frame size all I can say is that if you have never really ridden a progressive (long, low and slack) bike (SB130, SB150, Stumpy EVO, ext.) for an extended period of time you may want to reel yourself in a bit because the sizes they are recommending will ensure a lot of people spend their money wishing they had made a different decision. Namely, picking the smaller of the 2 frame sizes you're torn between.

    I'm 5'9" and currently own a 27.5" Stumpy EVO in an S2 with a 470 reach (high) and 1231 wheelbase (160 fork) and while it's great for high speed / decent stability given the "inside the bike" feeling it requires a COMPLETELY different style of riding and some sacrifices will have to be made. You have to deliberately weight the front to maintain front wheel grip in any type of corner and your ability to bunnyhop, manual and do any sort of low speed turn or tight switchback will feel like a good bit of work and eventually wear you down on long rides if you can't lean aggressively. Meaning, it's not really an ideal all-around / trail bike obviously but if you're 5'7" getting an S4 because of all the hype then you potentially just made a very expensive mistake and just because the seat tubes are low across the board giving you more "options" does not mean you should exercise them.

    I myself will be getting an S2 (Med) or S3 (Med Long) frame and after owning the EVO I'm leaning towards the S2 as LT 29er's are already a lot of bike to manage. So unless you race competitively chasing seconds, I would strongly suggest picking the lower of the 2 sizes you're torn between. Either way, you can't lose and I don't see anyone being under gunned by picking the more "nimble" size because of the wheelbase numbers are spot on for stability and I wouldn't call any of the sizes truly nimble for me to begin with.
    I completely disagree with this. I am on an S3 Evo 29 with a 475 reach and have no problems with tight switchbacks or lifting the front wheel when necessary and even when it is not. You definitely have to stay balanced on the bike compared to traditional geometry where you have to ride the rear wheel so you don't end up on your face. The front end will push if you sit on the back wheel with newer geometry.

  185. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salespunk View Post
    I completely disagree with this. I am on an S3 Evo 29 with a 475 reach and have no problems with tight switchbacks or lifting the front wheel when necessary and even when it is not. You definitely have to stay balanced on the bike compared to traditional geometry where you have to ride the rear wheel so you don't end up on your face. The front end will push if you sit on the back wheel with newer geometry.
    It obviously depends how tall you are bud, it's all relative.... I'm speaking for myself being 5'9" riding an 27.5 EVO S2 with a 470mm reach so if you're taller than me you would be on an S3 27.5 which would have a 495mm reach in high mode, that's 20mm more than your 29 S3 EVO with 475mm. Which may cause you to feel a lot differently about your rebuttal if you had to ride an even more progressive geo. Which again, is my point. Plus I'm not saying it's impossible I'm just saying it's very noticeable... and besides, for whatever reason the 29 EVO frames don't have very progressive reach numbers to begin with so I wouldn't expect you to have some of the problems I described, again depending on your height...

    Can we all just start these type of apples to oranges arguments by at least stating our height as a minimum baseline please?

  186. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by swift685 View Post
    It obviously depends how tall you are bud, it's all relative.... I'm speaking for myself being 5'9" riding an 27.5 EVO S2 with a 470mm reach so if you're taller than me you would be on an S3 27.5 which would have a 495mm reach in high mode, that's 20mm more than your 29 S3 EVO with 475mm. Which may cause you to feel a lot differently about your rebuttal if you had to ride an even more progressive geo. Which again, is my point... and besides, for whatever reason the 29 EVO frames don't have very progressive reach numbers to begin with so I wouldn't expect you to have some of the problems I described to begin with, again depending on your height...
    29 - 27.5 = 1.5in = 38mm / 2 = 19mm. If both bikes shared the same reach while keeping the head angle the same the 29 front wheel would be 19mm further. I think Specialized tried to make the feel of each bike similar and compensated by reducing the reach of the 29 model. Hence the 20mm difference in reach between the 2. Maybe this supports the whole size down thing on bigger wheels.
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    2020 Enduro Thread Try 2-capture.jpg

    Its pretty clear that bikes are growing across the industry (see attached).

    You have the likes of the Santacruz DH team and Chris Porter making big bikes that are designed to go fast.

    I have the latest Enduro 29 (in Large), been on it almost two years now. Will be replaced by the latest Enduro, could keep it, but want something different.

    Back in May? I test rode a G1 27, G1 29 and an XL Megatower.

    Firstly the Megatower, what an underwhelming bike, CC with carbon wheels, 36 grip 2 fork. Felt like a long legged trail bike than a big travel Enduro bike. Bike was harsh and such that there was far too much feedback through the bars and pedals, couldnít push the bike. It skipped all over the place and had to fight it to keep it on line, or somewhere near! Didn't notice its length.

    G1 27 and G1 29 took a bit of getting used to initially, they are a bit longer than the Enduro I have, shorter stem and in the G1 29 a Formula Fork (I have Lyriks on both my bikes).

    Both of them want you to get off the brakes on the fast sections as they are more stable, you feel more central in the bike and I found it easier to adjust my position, you had to make bigger movements, but you've got more of a range if that makes sense?

    When you are riding the bikes with the slacker front end and bigger front centres you feel less perched over the front on steep trails (think 25% and greater) and gives you greater confidence. Often people will raise the bars to push themselves away from the front wheel. Bar height on both G1's was lower than what I run on my Enduro (20mm bar, 5mm spacer).

    I get what Spesh have done, its a Mini Demo, with a dropper and 12speed. What they've done to the kinematics over the previous enduro is good, plus they've ditched the proprietary shock mount, so I can have an X2 (or anything else for that matter)

    Yes the flatter trails arn't going to be its forte, but if you live somewhere flatter, you'll want less travel anyways, so buy a Stumpy Evo/Smuggler/Normal stumpy.
    I'm lucky enough that I can have a two bikes, so I can have a little bike and a big bike, could find room for a middle bike (Stumpy Evo), so don't have to worry about being overbiked, pick the right tool for the job.

  188. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir HC View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Firstly the Megatower, what an underwhelming bike, CC with carbon wheels, 36 grip 2 fork. Felt like a long legged trail bike than a big travel Enduro bike. Bike was harsh and such that there was far too much feedback through the bars and pedals, couldnít push the bike. It skipped all over the place and had to fight it to keep it on line, or somewhere near! Didn't notice its length.
    Why aren't you commenting in the SC thread, fear of the masses and their pitchforks coming after you? Just kidding as I've found exactly the same...but what I've learned since is I believe a lot of this is due to the shock tune (assuming you rode the Deluxe AIR). MegaT comes M/M tune while the HighT2 comes L/L tune and actually feels much more sublime.

    At 6'2" riding XL I too believe in this whole FC/RC discussion and it doesn't leave a lot of bikes in the discussion, namely the Forbidden Druid and the Megatower in LONG setting...which has me leaning towards the MegaT with a shock change (X2) for my needs. I did ride the Mega in both Long and Short and preferred the Long setting descending and climbing.

    Ninjichor, is there a dedicated thread to the FC/RC talk...poor Enduro29 thread has been taken over.

  189. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by robnow View Post
    Why aren't you commenting in the SC thread, fear of the masses and their pitchforks coming after you? Just kidding as I've found exactly the same...but what I've learned since is I believe a lot of this is due to the shock tune (assuming you rode the Deluxe AIR). MegaT comes M/M tune while the HighT2 comes L/L tune and actually feels much more sublime.

    At 6'2" riding XL I too believe in this whole FC/RC discussion and it doesn't leave a lot of bikes in the discussion, namely the Forbidden Druid and the Megatower in LONG setting...which has me leaning towards the MegaT with a shock change (X2) for my needs. I did ride the Mega in both Long and Short and preferred the Long setting descending and climbing.

    Ninjichor, is there a dedicated thread to the FC/RC talk...poor Enduro29 thread has been taken over.
    Specialized is the first of the big 3 to go super big. This whole style specific sizing thing has got people talking for sure. It's the thing most people are curious about the most. People just want to belong (in a clear sizing bucket that is.). I want to ride Druid. Megatower also has an XXL if you want longer. I think that is close to the S5 sizing.
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    RIDE REPORT! Yes, an actual ride report and not theory! Rode the bike in Whistler a few days ago, coming off the 2018 Enduro S-Works. For what its worth, here is one person's thoughts.
    This is not like the old Enduro at all. The old Enduro was a slightly longer travel Stumpy. This is more like a mini-DH bike. With that, it is heavier, not as nimble and wonít be much fun for pedaling every day trails. Definitely not an everyday bike for most parts of the country. On the other hand, when going downhill, this bike is amazing. The rear suspension is light years ahead of the old bike. I could really feel difference with the higher pivot location and slightly rearward travel going through the gnar. Brake bumps? Tech? No problem. Very balanced bike, I felt inside the bike with perfect weight balance on both wheels. Rode an S4 S-Works at 6í1Ē. Still rode great on trails like Earth Circus and Ninja Cougar. Definitely feels heavier and was harder to lift the front end over roots etc but I think I would get used to that. Pedaling was ok, not as good as the old bike I feel. The suspension was nice in that the climb switch was hardly needed on the ups. The Fox X2 felt really great, no need to move to a coil on this bike.

    Overall, a great bike but would not ditch the Stumpy for big pedal days. BTW, I could see them bringing this new suspension platform to the Stumpy soon, that would be a hell of a bike.

  191. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by wingsno19 View Post
    RIDE REPORT! Yes, an actual ride report and not theory! Rode the bike in Whistler a few days ago, coming off the 2018 Enduro S-Works. For what its worth, here is one person's thoughts.
    This is not like the old Enduro at all. The old Enduro was a slightly longer travel Stumpy. This is more like a mini-DH bike. With that, it is heavier, not as nimble and wonít be much fun for pedaling every day trails. Definitely not an everyday bike for most parts of the country. On the other hand, when going downhill, this bike is amazing. The rear suspension is light years ahead of the old bike. I could really feel difference with the higher pivot location and slightly rearward travel going through the gnar. Brake bumps? Tech? No problem. Very balanced bike, I felt inside the bike with perfect weight balance on both wheels. Rode an S4 S-Works at 6í1Ē. Still rode great on trails like Earth Circus and Ninja Cougar. Definitely feels heavier and was harder to lift the front end over roots etc but I think I would get used to that. Pedaling was ok, not as good as the old bike I feel. The suspension was nice in that the climb switch was hardly needed on the ups. The Fox X2 felt really great, no need to move to a coil on this bike.

    Overall, a great bike but would not ditch the Stumpy for big pedal days. BTW, I could see them bringing this new suspension platform to the Stumpy soon, that would be a hell of a bike.
    Nice! Make sense. Seeing as how the EVO blurs the line between the 2. Did you feel like you could have gone bigger? What was the size of your 2018? Did the bike feel tall? This could really be the DH bike for most it sounds like. Enduro EVO without the name.
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    I could have maybe gone bigger but did not have the option to try the S5. On the tech it was great and still fun/maneuverable on trails like Ninja Cougar.

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    Rip


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  194. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by wingsno19 View Post
    RIDE REPORT! Yes, an actual ride report and not theory! Rode the bike in Whistler a few days ago, coming off the 2018 Enduro S-Works. For what its worth, here is one person's thoughts.
    This is not like the old Enduro at all. The old Enduro was a slightly longer travel Stumpy. This is more like a mini-DH bike. With that, it is heavier, not as nimble and wonít be much fun for pedaling every day trails. Definitely not an everyday bike for most parts of the country. On the other hand, when going downhill, this bike is amazing. The rear suspension is light years ahead of the old bike. I could really feel difference with the higher pivot location and slightly rearward travel going through the gnar. Brake bumps? Tech? No problem. Very balanced bike, I felt inside the bike with perfect weight balance on both wheels. Rode an S4 S-Works at 6í1Ē. Still rode great on trails like Earth Circus and Ninja Cougar. Definitely feels heavier and was harder to lift the front end over roots etc but I think I would get used to that. Pedaling was ok, not as good as the old bike I feel. The suspension was nice in that the climb switch was hardly needed on the ups. The Fox X2 felt really great, no need to move to a coil on this bike.

    Overall, a great bike but would not ditch the Stumpy for big pedal days. BTW, I could see them bringing this new suspension platform to the Stumpy soon, that would be a hell of a bike.
    Thanks for sharing your experience. Out of curiosity, have you ridden the SJ Evo yet and how does it compare?

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    Anyone know if there will be any other frame only versions available besides the s-works?


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    I would like to read that this enduro is very efficient in pedalling :-/

  197. #197
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    I just saw this YouTube video review. I don't know anything about this guy, but his perspective is interesting:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-CrOy9z-Ck
    "Less yappin' more braapin" - IFHT

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    Quote Originally Posted by davemk View Post
    I just saw this YouTube video review. I don't know anything about this guy, but his perspective is interesting:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-CrOy9z-Ck
    I know Mo from when he posted on a SoCal "STR" forum (I know Salespunk posted there too, but never really talked to him), and know he's taller than me by quite a bit. I remember hearing how he rode his Tallboy LTc for hours on the trail (Santiago Oaks), just being stoked that others were out there enjoying things as much as he was.

    He said a few things that stood out:

    - he said he had to get his weight forward on the Enduro 29 on climbs, climbing out of the saddle, or slamming seat forward.
    - he said the E29 rewarded riding that was more aggressive, implying high speed riding
    - he said he was riding the S5 and repeatedly said he felt more comfortable doing seated pedaling on the MegaTower in XL
    - he was impressed by the rear tire's response in high speed corners on the E29
    - he had issues with pedal strikes on E29, but said it might be acceptable for some who would accept that trade-off (e.g. for that deeper "in-the-bike" secure feel, I imagine)
    - he said, like the MegaTower, a long WB long travel 29er like the E29 wasn't as exciting cruising at lower speeds
    - he said pricing and build value was an issue for the E29, regarding people working out a budget, but said he really liked the SWAT system, including the tool in the steerer

    Just wanted to say that the comfort is related to the weight bias on bigger sizes being more rearward. It's rearward from just standing on pedals due to longer FC compared to RC (CS length), and sort of compels you compensate by shifting your body forward.

    I've been saying that I personally think there's a sweet spot, and I base if off of what allows the rider to stay in the "Universal Athletic Position", like the one taught for high school sports. Some may have flashbacks of coaches shouting, "get your butt back" and maybe "straighten your back!" Squats, deadlifts, and box jumps strengthen the muscles, and it's typically the one you see most gravity-racing pros using to absorb huge impacts (see Vital MTB G-out project).



    I can only speak for myself, but I wouldn't recommend a S5, since trying to use the universal athletic position might actually be sketchy. I'd recommend the MegaTower XL instead, esp considering it has a CS length adjuster. Not surprised to see Hannah opening up to "burlier lines" on it, since she has the confidence and strong athletic position to approach them on.
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  199. #199
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    I have only ridden the SJ, not the Evo.

  200. #200
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    Pedalling, I would say it was not as good as the 2018/19 Enduro.

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