Big Creek in Roswell, GA is at risk for a tennis center- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Big Creek in Roswell, GA is at risk for a tennis center

    https://www.ajc.com/business/roswell...bltUHYiDB5N4K/

    Apparently the city is planning a tennis complex that would be on the existing trail system.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adodero View Post
    https://www.ajc.com/business/roswell...bltUHYiDB5N4K/

    Apparently the city is planning a tennis complex that would be on the existing trail system.
    My wife sent the article in this morning and I was super excited since I play tennis but as soon as I saw the map then WTF..... there is no way to build this facility without taking away MTB trails. Looks like the vote was passed on Aug 13.

    I donít understand why they pick this place since itís very active MTB trail in GA.
    Very surprised hearing this news since Roswell is very bike friendly city......

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    As usual, it's all about the money. The city sees income from leasing the property and "charging Roswell residents will have use of the facility for a special resident fee" and claim it will increase business and "drive tax revenue".

    Better hope it does not end up like the Braves stadium, multimillion dollar private business funded by tax payers. Cobb is now in the red and raising taxes and threatening to close libraries, etc.
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    They donít need 135 courts. Almost every subdivisions have tennis courts.
    Traffic will be disaster since Old Alabama road does not have space to expand four way road. In and out traffic to Tennis center will be disaster.
    Vote will be next Monday so I will vote for ďNOĒ.
    They can not take away 2/3 of MTB trail.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kimguroo View Post
    My wife sent the article in this morning and I was super excited since I play tennis but as soon as I saw the map then WTF..... there is no way to build this facility without taking away MTB trails. Looks like the vote was passed on Aug 13.

    I donít understand why they pick this place since itís very active MTB trail in GA.
    Very surprised hearing this news since Roswell is very bike friendly city......
    It's not approved yet (it's only Aug 9th right now), but the council has recommended the Mayor sign for approval. Show up Monday and state your opposition!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by kimguroo View Post
    They donít need 135 courts. Almost every subdivisions have tennis courts.
    Traffic will be disaster since Old Alabama road does not have space to expand four way road. In and out traffic to Tennis center will be disaster.
    Vote will be next Monday so I will vote for ďNOĒ.
    They can not take away 2/3 of MTB trail.
    Exactly!! Why in the world is the city entertaining the size of the facility?!? There has to be a compromise that works for all here.

    I swear, the current city council will not be happy until there are no trees left in Roswell...

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    Anyone who can, please show up Monday, August 13th at 7:00 at Roswell City Hall and state your opposition to this project!!!

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    Terrible news! I thought when the green way was built a dozen or so years ago that they did it with federal money? Something to do with wetlands preservation? That took out some of the trails, but they were eventually replaced. I think the argument that will resonate the best with the city council will be increased traffic in an area that is already a bottle neck. That is what killed the development planned south of Holcomb Bridge near the river. There are many more tennis players than mountain bikers in Roswell, so the loss of the recreation area is not going to carry much weight.

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    here's a petition against the tennis center: https://www.change.org/p/lori-henry-...er-monstrosity

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    After signing the petition, please email Mayor Lori Henry at [email protected] or call her assistant, Katrina Singletary, at 770-594-6288 to politely but firmly voice your opposition to this plan.

    I live off of Old Alabama rd. Traffic is already horrendous at busy times. Aside from losing the trails, which would be heartbreaking to me, this proposed center would be a disaster for our neighborhoods.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kimguroo View Post
    They donít need 135 courts. Almost every subdivisions have tennis courts.
    Traffic will be disaster since Old Alabama road does not have space to expand four way road. In and out traffic to Tennis center will be disaster.
    Vote will be next Monday so I will vote for ďNOĒ.
    They can not take away 2/3 of MTB trail.
    It's a commercial business, the guy pushing for it wants to be able to rent it to big tournaments for his own profit. It's definitely not for the local residents, though the city is trying to soften it by saying they can use it (for a fee). And he's trying to position it as a memorial for his deceased daughter.
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    I have been riding this trail system for over 17 years so to see it go would be sad. I live about 10 minutes away and have always considered this green space including the Greenway to be one of the best things about living in this area. For those who can show up at the council meeting, please do so as visible support might sway the vote in our favor.

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    I got an email from Sorba Atlanta (I'm a member) encouraging people to attend the Monday meeting. I work pretty near Roswell so I'll try to make it.
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    Wear a red shirt if you can, apparently that's the thing

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    The meeting has been moved from 7:00om to 5:30pm on Monday, August 13th at Roswell City Hall.

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    I am more passionate by tennis than bike but I am totally against it.
    This place can not afford heavy traffic.
    Tennis community is very excited about this project and sending massive emails to vote.
    They said itís open vote.... not sure what this mean. Can non-residents vote too?
    Hope not.
    I live in within 2-3min driving distant from there but not affected by any traffic but I donít want to see huge tennis complex in this area.
    What if this business does not do well and bankrupt? I donít think they can restore the place like before.

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    Wait, residents are voting on this? I thought it was the city council.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adodero View Post
    Wait, residents are voting on this? I thought it was the city council.
    You are right. Open vote by city council.....
    Unfortunately, they will pass the project.
    I already signed the petition and this will be only I can do at this point T_T

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    you can contact Krause Lincoln as well, they're the ones trying to do this.

    https://www.facebook.com/KrauseLinco...zd5cTs&fref=nf

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    Quote Originally Posted by flow350 View Post
    The meeting has been moved from 7:00om to 5:30pm on Monday, August 13th at Roswell City Hall.
    I guess trying to to limit the people who can be there...I will just leave work early

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    The city website shows a meeting at 5:30:

    Joint Work Session with Mayor and Council and Planning Commission
     Open Discussion


    and then:

    Mayor and Council
    Regular Meeting
    8/13/2018 7:00 PM

    City Hall - Council Chambers

    Welcome
    Pledge of Allegiance Consent Agenda
    City of Roswell Meeting Agenda Mayor and Council Regular Meeting
    Mayor Lori Henry Councilmember Sean Groer Councilmember Matt Judy Councilmember Michael Palermo Councilmember Matthew Tyser Councilmember Marie Willsey Councilmember Marcelo Zapata
    1. Approval of the July 23, 2018 Mayor and Council Meeting Minutes; Approval of the July 30, 2018 Mayor and Council Open Forum Meeting Minutes; and Approval of the July 30, 2018 Mayor and Council Special Called Meeting Minutes.
    Administration
    2. Approval for the Mayor and/or City Administrator to sign a contract with Fulton County Department of Registration and Elections to conduct the special election for the City of Roswell on November 6, 2018 for two referendum questions on the ballot in the amount of $22,760.71.
    Administration
    Regular Agenda
    Mayor's Report
    1. Approval for the Mayor and/or City Administrator to sign a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) between the City of Roswell and Krause Family Foundation for the City to accept a donation of the design, construction and operation of the Angela Krause Tennis, Pickleball and Fitness Center by the Krause Family Foundation and for the City to dedicate 60 acres of Big Creek Park for construction and operation of the Angela Krause Tennis, Pickleball and Fitness Center.
    2. Approval of a Board of Zoning Appeals re-appointment - Richard O'Donnell

    I kind of wonder if they have gotten wind of opposition to the project and are trying to avoid dealing with the opposition. Or is the 5:30 open discussion for the public?

    Yep, once it fails, it will be way gone in regards to a a public area. They'd probably sell it off to another commercial interest to build on.
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    I think they have gotten wind of the opposition to this. It is not only MTBers that are opposed to this but also folks who live in the subdivisions next to it do not want it.

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    The mayor claims that the property has always been slated for re-development, but that they never had funding or the right project (yea right, 3 different attempts to destroy it were all failed). They see this as a win-win because they can repurpose what they see as an unused piece of revenue and not have to pay for it since the foundation is supposedly coughing up the $40m to build it (although funding hasn't been secured, so I'm not sure why we're talking about this or voting on it).

    The city has the perspective that the property is and always has been up for grabs at the right opportunity.

    As for them getting wind of opposition, yea, they have. I saw one post on FB that indicated someone in city hall called a RAMBO board member and told them to "tone it down". They don't seem to understand that this is an existential threat to mountain biking in Roswell.

    I'd suggest people at the meeting on Monday take names, those that vote yes should be remembered and when they go up for election, go to every bike shop, trailhead, neighborhood, and sports store with signs of their names plastered. The local, midterm elections don't usually have much traction and a pissed off community can make a big difference, even one as small as the mountain biking community.

    Also, get there early. Apparently the tennis folks have people coming to support the project and there is limited room in the building, we should fill the room before they even show up.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adodero View Post
    ...Also, get there early. Apparently the tennis folks have people coming to support the project and there is limited room in the building, we should fill the room before they even show up.
    How early? Also the times I have seen are 5.30pm or 7.00pm which one is it?

    I live near by and almost every subdivison around here has tennis courts that are barely used so I guess to city hall that means we need 100 more...

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    The meeting at 530 apparently is unrelated to the vote, but I'd suggest getting there around then or earlier to ensure you have space in the chamber and don't miss it. There will be a lot of people.

    Someone on Facebook posted a map that indicated there were 292 tennis courts in a 5 mile radius of Big Creek. The idea that 150 are needed and, more importantly, needed at that location, is ridiculous.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adodero View Post
    Someone on Facebook posted a map that indicated there were 292 tennis courts in a 5 mile radius of Big Creek. The idea that 150 are needed and, more importantly, needed at that location, is ridiculous.
    Can you find a link to that map? I'd like to see it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adodero View Post
    The meeting at 530 apparently is unrelated to the vote, but I'd suggest getting there around then or earlier to ensure you have space in the chamber and don't miss it. There will be a lot of people.

    Someone on Facebook posted a map that indicated there were 292 tennis courts in a 5 mile radius of Big Creek. The idea that 150 are needed and, more importantly, needed at that location, is ridiculous.
    What they are wanting to do is host large tournaments, which is where they see the income coming from in the commercial venture. So they don't care about how many neighborhoods have courts, it's not for the locals. And they plan on having clay courts which neighborhoods don't have, so they can host clay tournaments. And pickle ball, is there really interest in that?

    And according to the article, "The Atlanta area is considered the largest league tennis community in the country" so I think they believe the locals will then cough up money to be spectators at the large tournaments. And then they'll charge the locals if they do want to use the facilities, more $ in their pocket.
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    Cities are almost always not the best guardians of green spaces like this. I thought someone had posted somewhere that when the city originally purchased the land, it was supposed to be used as a natural space. If that is true, I wonder when that changed to waiting for the right project to develop it.

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    More fun info someone posted on FB:


    Other key data that has been discovered within the last 24 hours regarding this:

    - The foundation has not gotten official 501c3 status from the IRS as of yet. They established this in May of 2018.

    - The foundation has only approx $5mil of the estimated $50mil needed to complete the project.

    - The foundation had presented the project to the city of Alpharetta and was denied.

    To give you an idea of how ridiculous and ostentatious this proposal is:

    - This facility would be larger than the current USTAA headquarters in Orlando - They have only 100 courts.

    - The Georgia Tech aquatic center which was used for the 1996 olympics and is still used for college championships as well as being open to the public cost $14 mil to build in 1995.

    - The city of Gwinnett demolished the unused 1996 Olympic tennis facility in 2017 because it sat unused for years. It sat on 20+ acres, had 15 courts and could hold 7200 spectators.

    - Flushing Meadows in NY, home of the US Open has 33 courts, and sits on 45 acres.

    - Wake Forest University held the 2018 NCAA College Tennis Championships on their 13 courts. Their entire tennis, football and baseball complex would fit in the front HALF of what is being proposed at Big Creek.

    - There are approx 65 tennis courts within a 4 mile radius of Big Creek. Just for fun go on Google maps
    and notice how NONE of them are being used when the photos were taken!

    A few questions:

    - Can anyone with a civil engineering background weigh in on how grading those 65 acres and removing the rocks and trees will impact the rest of that area?

    - Have they done any significant economic impact study on how this will truly bring in revenue to the area?

    - Has anyone from the city done an environmental study?

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    Quote Originally Posted by heartland View Post
    Can you find a link to that map? I'd like to see it.
    https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/vi...330094316&z=11

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Dolittle View Post
    More fun info someone posted on FB:


    Other key data that has been discovered within the last 24 hours regarding this:

    - The foundation has not gotten official 501c3 status from the IRS as of yet. They established this in May of 2018.

    - The foundation has only approx $5mil of the estimated $50mil needed to complete the project.

    - The foundation had presented the project to the city of Alpharetta and was denied.

    To give you an idea of how ridiculous and ostentatious this proposal is:

    - This facility would be larger than the current USTAA headquarters in Orlando - They have only 100 courts.

    - The Georgia Tech aquatic center which was used for the 1996 olympics and is still used for college championships as well as being open to the public cost $14 mil to build in 1995.

    - The city of Gwinnett demolished the unused 1996 Olympic tennis facility in 2017 because it sat unused for years. It sat on 20+ acres, had 15 courts and could hold 7200 spectators.

    - Flushing Meadows in NY, home of the US Open has 33 courts, and sits on 45 acres.

    - Wake Forest University held the 2018 NCAA College Tennis Championships on their 13 courts. Their entire tennis, football and baseball complex would fit in the front HALF of what is being proposed at Big Creek.

    - There are approx 65 tennis courts within a 4 mile radius of Big Creek. Just for fun go on Google maps
    and notice how NONE of them are being used when the photos were taken!

    A few questions:

    - Can anyone with a civil engineering background weigh in on how grading those 65 acres and removing the rocks and trees will impact the rest of that area?

    - Have they done any significant economic impact study on how this will truly bring in revenue to the area?

    - Has anyone from the city done an environmental study?
    I doubt the city has done any of their own legwork on this issue, especially considering they were quoting studies done by other cities. I found this somewhat alarming that they didn't have their own data to share and shows they haven't fully considered the implications of this project.

    I hope someone with standing, homeowners or RAMBO have considered getting a legal team involved. The city is clearly acting shady, the foundation seems to think this can be done by Fall of 2019, and the MOU apparently permits demolition to begin before the project is funded or approved. If this passes on Monday, it needs to be in the court system on Tuesday.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adodero View Post
    As for them getting wind of opposition, yea, they have. I saw one post on FB that indicated someone in city hall called a RAMBO board member and told them to "tone it down". They don't seem to understand that this is an existential threat to mountain biking in Roswell.
    I have been watching and working (calling out everyone involved on all social media outlets, emailing the mayor and city council and posting the petition in multiple venues) on this nonstop since the story broke Thursday. It's simply a cash grab for the mayor/city council/Roswell Inc and tax free real estate for Krause's Tennis Mecca he wants to build. The roll out video (which is nauseating) made by Roswell Inc is complete horsesh*t. I had not seen mention of this "tone it down" and while RAMBO/SORBA are asking people to maintain civil discourse I can virtually promise you that it will get ugly very quickly on Monday. You have a recently elected mayor that blatantly lied multiple times on camera about the project, purposely doing it all behind closed doors and the rest of those involved are as skeezy as they come. When you really read up on it you realize just how scuzzy the whole thing is. I will be there on Monday purposely early with a prepared statement if given the opportunity to call these POS out for what they are...self-serving, low class liars.

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    Rider at Big Creek for over 20 years.
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    Let's also not forget that they announced this on a Thursday. That effectively leaves two days for research and investigation of this. If I put my tinfoil hat on, that can't be random.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adodero View Post
    Let's also not forget that they announced this on a Thursday. That effectively leaves two days for research and investigation of this. If I put my tinfoil hat on, that can't be random.
    Big Creek in Roswell, GA is at risk for a tennis center-bingo-.jpg

    It's about as crooked, back room political sleaze as it gets.
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    Anyone know if there is any organization to the group opposed to the plan, as in someone from Rambo who will be speaking for the group?
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    Anyone know if there is any organization to the group opposed to the plan, as in someone from Rambo who will be speaking for the group?
    There has been nonstop activity since the news broke on Thursday. Multiple sources that will speak with authority on the matter tomorrow, discussions of filing injunctions against the city and over 400 slated to come out to the Roswell City council meeting to show opposition. As of writing this there are nearly 24k signatures in opposition to this and there will likely be more than 25k+ shortly. Thanx for your support.
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    Not sure exactly what "tabled" means, but it looks like we have been successful for the time being.

    Krause just released a statement that "we are in agreement that this project should not move forward at this time. We are hopeful that the mayor and council will schedule town hall meetings so that everyone can have a say."

    Will try to find the actual statement. My wife sent a screen shot from Next Door.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Big Creek in Roswell, GA is at risk for a tennis center-img_1491.jpg  

    Big Creek in Roswell, GA is at risk for a tennis center-img_1492.jpg  


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    Itís good news but concern about the statement from city spokeswoman.
    Itís from AJC a few days ago.

    ďJulie Brechbill, a Roswell spokesperson, said the park where the tennis center would be built had long been part of a master plan that included an arts center, an aquatic center and other construction. The city never intended to keep it wooded forever, she said.Ē

    I prefer to see this area as it is now instead of developing but this might be just first round....

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    Quote Originally Posted by kimguroo View Post
    Itís good news but concern about the statement from city spokeswoman.
    Itís from AJC a few days ago.

    ďJulie Brechbill, a Roswell spokesperson, said the park where the tennis center would be built had long been part of a master plan that included an arts center, an aquatic center and other construction. The city never intended to keep it wooded forever, she said.Ē

    I prefer to see this area as it is now instead of developing but this might be just first round....
    That's not new information and is why RAMBO and other groups need to send a clear message that destroying the property isn't appropriate. I think it's particularly telling that the group responsible for pulling this project off the docket was the family, not the city.

    They don't get the message. If you are a Roswell resident, RAMBO is still showing up tomorrow to the meeting and I'd suggest you continue your plans to show up. In the next election, this should be an important enough issue to merit discussion with candidates and swing votes towards people that don't see Big Creek as a piece of property to be developed on as soon as a bag of cash shows up.

  39. #39
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    I heard some good news this morning on NPR. The project is now put on hold because of lack of public support because of concerns about added traffic and loss of green space. Who needs all those tennis courts anyway?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adodero View Post
    ...They don't get the message. If you are a Roswell resident, RAMBO is still showing up tomorrow to the meeting and I'd suggest you continue your plans to show up. In the next election, this should be an important enough issue to merit discussion with candidates and swing votes towards people that don't see Big Creek as a piece of property to be developed on as soon as a bag of cash shows up.
    I am not a resident but I am still showing up. They need to see that even though this is not a revenue generating property, it is still a public asset that needs to be protected.

    Also, I think going forward we need to start thinking about doing something to change the designation of this property to protect it. I do not know what would be involved or if it is even possible but it would stave off all the development plans that we are currently fighting every few years.

  41. #41
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    I just saw the news this morning. There was BIG opposition against the tennis courts. It looks like there will be no tennis courts. Victory!
    Roswell residents in opposition to proposed tennis facility - CBS46 News
    Last edited by Zomby Woof (MCM700); 08-14-2018 at 06:01 AM.

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    https://vimeo.com/284841329?ref=fb-share

    Quote Originally Posted by Zomby Woof (MCM700) View Post
    I just saw the news this morning. There was BIG opposition against the tennis courts. It looks like there will be no tennis courts. Victory!
    It's not really a victory if you have city officials that still believe the property can be redeveloped.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zomby Woof (MCM700) View Post
    I just saw the news this morning. There was BIG opposition against the tennis courts. It looks like there will be no tennis courts. Victory!
    Roswell residents in opposition to proposed tennis facility - CBS46 News
    Not really a victory, more like a ceasefire based on what I saw at the meeting. I think they are going to regroup and come up with a new plan. I am hoping Rambo will coordinate with the other groups opposed to this so that all efforts are laser focused going foward. It was nice to see that many folks show up though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adodero View Post
    https://vimeo.com/284841329?ref=fb-share



    It's not really a victory if you have city officials that still believe the property can be redeveloped.
    Thanks for sharing the video. That just proves we are dealing with an irrational person, who unfortunately is the Mayor...wow.

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    This guy is making a proposal to make Big Creek a "passive park", the way it is used now:

    https://www.facebook.com/Marcelo4Ros...94456290777044

    I expect he's gonna encounter resistance, so I'd be sure any Roswell residents that want to see Big Creek remain the same stay on top of this and help him along the way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adodero View Post
    This guy is making a proposal to make Big Creek a "passive park", the way it is used now:

    https://www.facebook.com/Marcelo4Ros...94456290777044

    I expect he's gonna encounter resistance, so I'd be sure any Roswell residents that want to see Big Creek remain the same stay on top of this and help him along the way.
    I agree. He is going against the Mayor and other city council members so it is going to be tough. I hope Rambo and all the other groups rally behind him as he is going to need all the help he can get. I am not a Roswell resident but I will keep an eye on this and will forward to other folks who live in the city limits.

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