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  1. #1
    drev-il, not Dr. Evil!
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    Bonking ... not feelin' well Wtf 1fg Ebb Nfg?

    I bought a used Cannondale 1FG from a friend for my wife. The EBB in it is frozen in place, and I think it's because my buddy used to hamfist the wedge bolt because he was having trouble with it slipping. I can't tell, but I'm also guessing he didn't use much grease in there also.

    I then took the bolt all the way out and saw some aluminum thread shavings which undoubtedly came from the wedge. It was missing the washer, circlip, and centering bolt (highlighted in red in pic below.) He told me he took it completely apart and lost a few pieces along the way. So I did what the instructions said and put a 4mm hex in the bolt head and took a few good wacks at the wrench with a rubber mallet. It didn't move.

    When I did a search on the 1FG's history on this here website (both reviews and the forum), it looks like the some folks had problems with the earlier version of the EBB. However, I'm not sure if this bike is from that year.

    Anyways, I have a few Qs about the EBB:
    1. Should I just buy another one considering the the seemingly essential parts that were missing and the trashed threads?
    2. Any idea how much a Cannondale EBB costs?
    3. Can I replace it with another Bushnell or wedge-style EBB that has a better track record, i.e., will another brand fit inside the 1FG's BB shell?
    4. Any suggestions how to unstick the wedge? I leaned the bike over so the drive side is facing down, then poured several teaspoons-full of Pro-Link lubricant so it dribbled down into the EBB. I know it's probably not the right liquid for the job, but it's all I had on hand tonight. Anything else that should work better?
    Thanks for lissnin'
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Drevil; 08-29-2006 at 07:55 PM.
    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | ssoft | flickr

  2. #2
    drev-il, not Dr. Evil!
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    Double Wedgie

    I just found this double wedge EBB on the Cannondale website. Does this come with the new 1FGs? Has anyone replaced the single wedge that I described above for this one, and consequently had better luck? Thanks!

    http://www.cannondale.com/Asset/iu_f..._dbl_wedge.pdf
    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | ssoft | flickr

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drevil
    I bought a used Cannondale 1FG from a friend for my wife. The EBB in it is frozen in place, and I think it's because my buddy used to hamfist the wedge bolt because he was having trouble with it slipping. I can't tell, but I'm also guessing he didn't use much grease in there also.

    I then took the bolt all the way out and saw some aluminum thread shavings which undoubtedly came from the wedge. It was missing the washer, circlip, and centering bolt (highlighted in red in pic below.) He told me he took it completely apart and lost a few pieces along the way. So I did what the instructions said and put a 4mm hex in the bolt head and took a few good wacks at the wrench with a rubber mallet. It didn't move.

    When I did a search on the 1FG's history on this here website (both reviews and the forum), it looks like the some folks had problems with the earlier version of the EBB. However, I'm not sure if this bike is from that year.

    Anyways, I have a few Qs about the EBB:
    1. Should I just buy another one considering the the seemingly essential parts that were missing and the trashed threads?
    2. Any idea how much a Cannondale EBB costs?
    3. Can I replace it with another Bushnell or wedge-style EBB that has a better track record, i.e., will another brand fit inside the 1FG's BB shell?
    4. Any suggestions how to unstick the wedge? I leaned the bike over so the drive side is facing down, then poured several teaspoons-full of Pro-Link lubricant so it dribbled down into the EBB. I know it's probably not the right liquid for the job, but it's all I had on hand tonight. Anything else that should work better?
    Thanks for lissnin'
    I don't know if you can replace the eccentric with something else, but personally I would replace it, even if I had to use the same thing (new). I know I'm a fastideous AR (Anal Retent), but as I see it right is right and wrong is wrong.

    As for getting the old wedge out, if you're going to replace the EBB, it seems like you could really go to town on the old eccentric with a hammer and who cares if it gets wrecked. I also thought of drilling and tapping the backside of the wedge but even if you could thread a bolt into it, pulling on the head of a bolt does not afford much leverage. You could whack the bolt around to try and loosen the wedge, though.

    Penetrating lubricant... that's the stuff. Then patience. THEN the above. Good luck.

    --Sparty
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    We don't quit riding because we get old.
    We get old because we quit riding.

  4. #4
    elbow gloves
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    mass exodus

    If there are enough threads left on that wedge I would try threading in a longer bolt so the head comes up above the eccentric enough to safely whack the snot out of that bolt until the wedge comes loose. First get some good penetrating lube in there and let it set for a day. lay the frame on its side on a sturdy work bench or vice and go to town. If the threads are tossed, I would tap in some new threads to a larger bolt and go through the same process. Either way it sounds like the threads are muckerd up to the point where you need a replacement.

  5. #5
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    Hammer It!

    I also own a 1FG and have had similar problems getting the EBB to loosen up.

    I have used a soft faced hammer (rubber on one end and plastic on the other) that I got at Home Depot. It usually helps if I grab a beer and just plan on being patient. They trick seems to be to drive the large wedge slightly toward the drive side of bottom bracket by banging on the end of the crank arm with the plastic faced head on the hammer. (At least on my bike the large end of the large wedge is on the drive side.) Just remember you a retrying to break a vacuum and not trying to beat the bike into submission. I can usually get it loose in about 5 minutes.

    Follow the Cannondale torque recommendations when tightening it back up and you should be good to go. I run rear sprockets with anything from 23 to 18 teeth, so I end up changing the cog and having to readjust the chain about every other month. It gets easier every time and, inspite of Cannondale's recommendation not to resort to the hammer, I haven't seen any problems developing. I still love the bike and think the EBB makes for a much cleaner looking installation (particularly when disc brakes are involved) than the other options out there. I was even more convinced when I saw the new Trek Sixty-Niner in the latest Mountain Bike Action. The detail of the slide mount dropouts to adjust chain tension is UGLY! A Boone Titanium cog would get buried behind all that extra material.

  6. #6
    drev-il, not Dr. Evil!
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    Thanks for the help fellas, but I figured out a way to do it without going back to percussive instruments (i.e., steel, rubber, or pneumatic hammer), which was especially important because my wife was already asleep.

    If you're interested, here's what I did. After staring at it for a couple of minutes, I noticed there was a gap between the edge of the bottom bracket shell's outside plane and the outer flat face of the wedge. I figured it might be wiser to pull the wedge out instead of the standard response of pushing (or hammering) it out.



    So I pulled the screw all the way out, and screwed it in from the other side. Yes, it's a long screw, so I used two small sockets (6mm & 7mm) and fed them onto the screw to act as spacers. I also rested a flat metal plate with a hole in it (in this case an unused, partially cut bashguard) on the edge of the outer shell. After a few turns of the screw, a loud pop, and the wedge was loose!



    I took these pics after the fact, and I didn't want to take it apart again. Fact is, I removed the wedge with the cranks and bottom bracket pulled out, but it wouldn't have made a difference. There is enough clearance for the screw/wedge extraction with the cranks still on the bike.

    Let me know if you have any Qs!
    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | ssoft | flickr

  7. #7
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    Okay then!

    Quote Originally Posted by Drevil
    Thanks for the help fellas, but I figured out a way to do it...
    Way to go!

    --Sparty
    disciplesofdirt.org

    We don't quit riding because we get old.
    We get old because we quit riding.

  8. #8
    drev-il, not Dr. Evil!
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    All built up and ready to rock:



    She hasn't tried it yet, but we'll give it a spin when she gets off work. Hopefully it fits!
    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | ssoft | flickr

  9. #9
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    Gotta love those EEB problems; nice job not breaking that thing. I know I would have. Sweet bike, too. Mrs. Outlaw now has the little gem of a frame that I intended for Sophia, so the hunt is on again.

  10. #10
    try driving your car less
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drevil
    All built up and ready to rock:



    She hasn't tried it yet, but we'll give it a spin when she gets off work. Hopefully it fits!
    that bike needs a bell NOW. a brass incredibell.

    it looks like a BMX bike!
    Only boring people get bored.

  11. #11
    drev-il, not Dr. Evil!
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    Quote Originally Posted by jh_on_the_cape
    it looks like a BMX bike!
    Don't it? My wife's a petite person (4'8"). She jumped on it yesterday, and the stem was too short. We're also putting a Mary bar on it.
    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | ssoft | flickr

  12. #12
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    Give us a ride report

    Awesome job on getting the EBB loose. So did you replace it or just buy the parts that were missing? Once your wife gets some miles on it a ride report would be great. My dealer has an 03' new in the box, but I am unsure of the ebb durability, how hash a ride the Al frame is (I have a 96' f700 cad3) but I wonder if the furio frame is stiffer, also do I want 26" or 29" wheels?

  13. #13
    drev-il, not Dr. Evil!
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    Quote Originally Posted by eman2
    Awesome job on getting the EBB loose. So did you replace it or just buy the parts that were missing? Once your wife gets some miles on it a ride report would be great. My dealer has an 03' new in the box, but I am unsure of the ebb durability, how hash a ride the Al frame is (I have a 96' f700 cad3) but I wonder if the furio frame is stiffer, also do I want 26" or 29" wheels?
    I went to two shops that sold Cannondale, and one even carried the 1FG. After asking both how much a replacement EBB costs, neither could tell me. I even had to explain what the EBB was. Maybe I was just getting the un-smart mechanics, but that was a turnoff and I didn't follow up on it. I'll find another shop that knows what they're doing if the EBB becomes an issue again.
    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | ssoft | flickr

  14. #14
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    Hammer It! (Revised)

    I actually had a chance to get back into the EBB on my 2005 1FG and found the EBB is different from what is posted on the Cannondale site (and the picture in one of the messages above). Rather than a single piece wedge (Item 2 in the picture above), the EBB on my bike has two wedges, one that comes in from each side.

    When I relax the tension on the bolt (Item 5 in the Picture above), I can tap on it to push the wedge on the nondrive side out to loosen it. With a one piece wedge, everything should come loose at this point. With a two piece wedge, the drive side is still tight and nothing rotates! It was just by chance that all my banging around loosened anything in the past. This time I found that by tapping (lightly) on the loose bolt, I could push the drive side wedge out and then easily spin the EBB to the new position. You have to tap lightly on the bolt when trying to push the wedge out on the drive side, because you are actually pushing on the retaining clip (Item 6 in the picture above), which won't take a lot of load before it or the EBB grooves it sits in will break!

  15. #15
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    I have questions.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Drevil
    Thanks for the help fellas, but I figured out a way to do it without going back to percussive instruments (i.e., steel, rubber, or pneumatic hammer), which was especially important because my wife was already asleep.

    If you're interested, here's what I did. After staring at it for a couple of minutes, I noticed there was a gap between the edge of the bottom bracket shell's outside plane and the outer flat face of the wedge. I figured it might be wiser to pull the wedge out instead of the standard response of pushing (or hammering) it out.



    So I pulled the screw all the way out, and screwed it in from the other side. Yes, it's a long screw, so I used two small sockets (6mm & 7mm) and fed them onto the screw to act as spacers. I also rested a flat metal plate with a hole in it (in this case an unused, partially cut bashguard) on the edge of the outer shell. After a few turns of the screw, a loud pop, and the wedge was loose!



    I took these pics after the fact, and I didn't want to take it apart again. Fact is, I removed the wedge with the cranks and bottom bracket pulled out, but it wouldn't have made a difference. There is enough clearance for the screw/wedge extraction with the cranks still on the bike.

    Let me know if you have any Qs!

    1. Is your short wife, hot?
    2. Would you email me pictures of her?
    3. What's she doing with you?
    4. Does she ever travel to Kansas City?
    5. When are you leaving town again?

    I'm just asking... nothing personal.....

  16. #16
    ballbuster
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    Yeah, no kidding.

    Quote Originally Posted by AteMrYeats
    Gotta love those EEB problems; nice job not breaking that thing. I know I would have. Sweet bike, too. Mrs. Outlaw now has the little gem of a frame that I intended for Sophia, so the hunt is on again.
    After all the issues I see with EBBs, I may just do horizontal dropouts and a tugger when I finally get around to buying an SS specific frame.

  17. #17
    ballbuster
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    How....

    Quote Originally Posted by Drevil
    I went to two shops that sold Cannondale, and one even carried the 1FG. After asking both how much a replacement EBB costs, neither could tell me. I even had to explain what the EBB was. Maybe I was just getting the un-smart mechanics, but that was a turnoff and I didn't follow up on it. I'll find another shop that knows what they're doing if the EBB becomes an issue again.
    ... can a mechanic not know what an EBB is? Okay, I can see if you live out in the boonies, maybe the wrench has never worked on one, and FWIU, they are touchy to get just right, but never even heard of one?!? That's nutz!

    OTOH, I was in Performance bike a while ago, and asked the register jockey for an LX BB. He looked at me like I was from Mars, and sent me to the back room to ask the wrench. The wrench never heard of LX. "Is that a mountain bike thing?" I kind of expect that from Performance Bike.

  18. #18
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    If memory serves, the EBB runs around $100. Thats for the one in the tandems, but I'm almost certain its the same on in the 1fg. If you walked up to a mechnic and said "1fg EBB" they may be confused (assuming they wer low on coffee and sleep, as mechanics often are). If you said "eccentric bottom bracket for my Cannondale 1fg single speed" and they still didn't get it, walk out the door. Not all mechanics hang out on forums and speak in acronims and abbreviations, but if they don;t know what an eccentric is, they need to hit the books (or bricks).

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