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  1. #1
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    this is why we need to ride more

    http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...w3u1lus_photo0



    Cars...cars are the lamest invention. No one thought of the consequences of cars back in the early 20th century. Supply, demand, the human race spreading and growing like a fükking plague…that’s why gasoline prices, the demand to drive, the demand for mass consumption just sucks.

    I will be working in the reconstruction of the Marquette Interchange (for those if you who read my angry rant from yesterday, I did got paid today after telling my boss that I need to support a new baby, but I am looking elsewhere for work). I will be doing all the marketing for it, and it bugs the crap out of me that I am involved in the benefit of drivers.

    If I were king for a day, I’d outlaw passenger cars and only allow anything that’s designed for public and mass transit to operate. Bicycles, buses, trains, even do a campaign for walking shoes for crying out loud! Anyone caught driving their car would be subject to be goosed by a greasy fat pervert.

    Dammit! I own an SUV, one of the thirstiest vehicles out there…I like it a lot and drive it a lot (now more than riding because I work downtown Milwaukee), and it pisses me off.

    I’m an angry Mexican today. I'll just keep listening to my Pixies' Trompe Le Monde.

    I see this country going in a decline perhaps a hundred years from now. I wonder is in our lifetimes, we’ll actually see oil reserves or oil wells run dry…then bikes will, or also, be a thing of the past. Crude oil byproducts are bicycle tires, cable housing, brake pads, lycra, helmets…we’d be back in prehistory.

    So for now, I am going to ride as much as I can, which will prevent me from becoming HBFK. The lady in the Yahoo link…absolutely the epitome of HBFKisms in the United States of America.
    Last edited by ernesto_from_Wisconsin; 03-24-2004 at 10:22 AM. Reason: clarity

  2. #2
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    Trompe Le Monde is a damn fine album.

    Oh, yeah... I agree with you on the car thing. I was going to buy a nice BMW with a mighty thirsty engine, but after thinking about it for a while, I decided I'll look for something more economical and use the rest of the money for a Yakima bike trailer.
    Convince me

  3. #3
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    why not use mine?

    Quote Originally Posted by JerseyDevil
    Trompe Le Monde is a damn fine album.

    Oh, yeah... I agree with you on the car thing. I was going to buy a nice BMW with a mighty thirsty engine, but after thinking about it for a while, I decided I'll look for something more economical and use the rest of the money for a Yakima bike trailer.
    Nice call.

    I have a used but in great shape BOB trailer. It's missing the rear fender and the flag, but it works like a charm. I can't use it because it won't work with ENO laced bikes, so I use panniers instead.

  4. #4
    giddy up!
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    I think you should....

    ....part with said trailer....trade for a nice 56cm cross bike?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernesto_from_Wisconsin
    Nice call.

    I have a used but in great shape BOB trailer. It's missing the rear fender and the flag, but it works like a charm. I can't use it because it won't work with ENO laced bikes, so I use panniers instead.
    www.thepathbikeshop.com

  5. #5
    Whiskey Tango Foxtrot
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    why contribute to the problem?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernesto_from_Wisconsin
    Dammit! I own an SUV, one of the thirstiest vehicles out there…I like it a lot and drive it a lot (now more than riding because I work downtown Milwaukee), and it pisses me off.
    there are plenty of more fuel efficient choices that would have met your needs, but now, you have a yellow ford escape. oops, i meant a black jeep escape. damn, i meant a black jeep liberty. oh well, it's hardcore and "trail rated."

  6. #6
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    what cross bike?

    Quote Originally Posted by donkey
    ....part with said trailer....trade for a nice 56cm cross bike?
    Send me an image of the cross bike please.
    Um, it's a brownish colored Jeep Liberty, and yes, it is so trail rated. Yellow Ford Lamescapes can kiss my butt.

    So do big Chevy Tahoes and Ford Excursions, commuting to work, with only the driver. What a waste. Dammit! Don't be surprised if some day in the future you see me on national news, riding the Surly Pacer, all pimped out, on I-94's shoulder in Milwaukee. Just for the sheer hell of it.

    You guys are my bítches.
    Last edited by ernesto_from_Wisconsin; 03-24-2004 at 11:14 AM. Reason: clarity

  7. #7
    KgB
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    you know it's kind of laughable

    how much it costs to work.
    sell the cars,quit buying so much stuff,live below your means and suddenly you don't need that job in the city.
    BTW most bikes in the US are part of the problem as well as the SUV's
    I've been inside too long.

  8. #8
    giddy up!
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    I probably should have said....

    56cm frame and fork, because it is not a complete bike....sorry about that....anyway, it's a metallic green simonetti....easton......your profile won't let me send you email, is there an email address where I can send it.....you could email it to me at [email protected]....

    yep...

    Quote Originally Posted by ernesto_from_Wisconsin
    Send me an image of the cross bike please.
    Um, it's a brownish colored Jeep Liberty, and yes, it is so trail rated. Yellow Ford Lamescapes can kiss my butt.

    So do big Chevy Tahoes and Ford Excursions, commuting to work, with only the driver. What a waste. Dammit! Don't be surprised if some day in the future you see me on national news, riding the Surly Pacer, all pimped out, on I-94's shoulder in Milwaukee. Just for the sheer hell of it.

    You guys are my bítches.
    www.thepathbikeshop.com

  9. #9
    USB Rep'n
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    Quote Originally Posted by ernesto_from_Wisconsin
    You guys are my bítches.
    finally something we understand! peace mi amigo!
    though hope is frail, it must prevail - Taj Weekes

    betam eh-wud-eh-HA-lehu y
    eh-nay Ityopia!

  10. #10
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    why?

    Quote Originally Posted by KgB
    how much it costs to work.
    sell the cars,quit buying so much stuff,live below your means and suddenly you don't need that job in the city.
    BTW most bikes in the US are part of the problem as well as the SUV's
    Why are most bikes in the US partof the problem? Because people leave their comfort bikes in the garage?

  11. #11
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    Should we all give up sex and join the monastery...?

    Quote Originally Posted by KgB
    BTW most bikes in the US are part of the problem as well as the SUV's
    The key to life is balance, i.e. you can't go too far in any extreme without suffering the associated consequences relative to that philosophical locale. Maybe you could clarify the aforementioned quote.

    dd.'

  12. #12
    KgB
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    with the exception of commuters

    and the health benefits.you tell me how they better the enviroment.
    I've been inside too long.

  13. #13
    34N 118W
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    Quote Originally Posted by KgB
    you tell me how they better the enviroment.
    well for starters this isn't the result of too many bikes on the road. Downtown LA dead center, if you can see it.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by KgB
    and the health benefits.you tell me how they better the enviroment.
    Well, what direction do you want to take this....? It is a dynamic network of issues. One could be an idealist and propose all sorts of reasons for how production of cycling goods feed into pollution and ravaging of the environment on a multitude of levels. But that may be somewhat short-sighted. There are ways to mass produce these items while taking environmental precautions (see Chris King…
    http://www.chrisking.com/company/comp_index.html). This however costs a lot of money as seen in the price of their products and that is one of the things they will tell you that you are paying for. (So, should we still quit our jobs in the city that quickly?) Mass production also helps keep the costs down so that we can all quit our jobs and move to the country and live in that dreamy, idealistic utopia. Even this is a simple analysis of the situation… It is still more complicated than this… Every variable interacts and affects another variable… we do not live in a vacuum. Manufacturers like King are doing what they can within reason. This is laudable. More manufacturers should adopt these practices in hopes to save our precious environment, but this costs money (getting back to jobs in big cities…). We could also emulate these practices in our own lives, i.e. doing what we can to help. Making gross generalizations that are myopic don’t help, they only underestimate the dynamic.

    dd.’

  15. #15
    KgB
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    dude I don't have a clue what you just said.

    Quote Originally Posted by dodjy
    Well, what direction do you want to take this....? It is a dynamic network of issues. One could be an idealist and propose all sorts of reasons for how production of cycling goods feed into pollution and ravaging of the environment on a multitude of levels. But that may be somewhat short-sighted. There are ways to mass produce these items while taking environmental precautions (see Chris King…
    http://www.chrisking.com/company/comp_index.html). This however costs a lot of money as seen in the price of their products and that is one of the things they will tell you that you are paying for. (So, should we still quit our jobs in the city that quickly?) Mass production also helps keep the costs down so that we can all quit our jobs and move to the country and live in that dreamy, idealistic utopia. Even this is a simple analysis of the situation… It is still more complicated than this… Every variable interacts and affects another variable… we do not live in a vacuum. Manufacturers like King are doing what they can within reason. This is laudable. More manufacturers should adopt these practices in hopes to save our precious environment, but this costs money (getting back to jobs in big cities…). We could also emulate these practices in our own lives, i.e. doing what we can to help. Making gross generalizations that are myopic don’t help, they only underestimate the dynamic.

    dd.’
    really
    I've been inside too long.

  16. #16
    KgB
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    thanks for playing but

    Quote Originally Posted by Hollywood
    well for starters this isn't the result of too many bikes on the road. Downtown LA dead center, if you can see it.
    you didn't really answer the question.
    I've been inside too long.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by KgB
    and the health benefits.you tell me how they better the enviroment.
    They better the environment in at least one important way that I can think of: By virtue of the fact that we can't be in two places at one time, if we're on our bikes we can't be behind the wheels of our SUVs.

    They better the environment by improving the scenery. Girls who bike are leaner, prettier. Guys who bike are leaner, more handsome.

    Bikes better the environment to at least some degree because many of us who ride mountain bikes come to care about the trails we ride on, and therefore we give back by doing trailwork. For example our club alone, The Disciples of Dirt, has done over 600 man/hours of trailwork so far in '04, with many more hours to follow in the coming months. All trail users benefit from our work.

    There are additional ways, I'm sure.

    --Sparty
    disciplesofdirt.org

    We don't quit riding because we get old.
    We get old because we quit riding.

  18. #18
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    Is it really that difficult to understand???

    Quote Originally Posted by KgB
    BTW most bikes in the US are part of the problem as well as the SUV's
    Maybe you could elucidate your point.

    How do most bikes contribute to the same problems as SUV's?

    After you answer that, go back and read what I wrote again...

  19. #19
    FUD
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    elucidation

    Quote Originally Posted by dodjy
    Maybe you could elucidate your point.

    How do most bikes contribute to the same problems as SUV's?

    After you answer that, go back and read what I wrote again...
    I agree with the kgb that most bikes <i>in the US</i> are <i>part</i> of the problem, most bikes in the us being huffys and magnas that were made in China or Taiwan where there are zero enviro regulations for the factories to comply with. This leaves them the option, which they take, to dispose of their waste from the build and especially from the spraying, directly into the rivers. Never been there myself, but I undertand its quite a mess. your reference to King and their practices is an example of one really expensive fish in a pond full of 5 cent guppies. They may be good stewards of the land but theyre one tiny component maker as opposed to huge factories that build most bikes and bike parts. almost no one, relatively speaking, buys King parts or will pay the price of King parts. They buy Walmart bikes. The solution, I guess, is either to impose trade sanctions on countries like china and taiwan that dump on the planet to make cheap bikes or on their american customers which will then be passed on to us, or to recycle bikes a little more. or buy full on custom rigs built and powder coated in the US where there are rules to follow.

  20. #20
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    I do my part my riding to and from the campus...

    The increased gas prices are going to have an impact in the economy, which is the driving force behind American jobs. It is too late to try to re-think the infrastructure of America's transportation system, instead we are forced to continue with "end of the pipe" solutions to problems unforseen when the automobile was invented. These are the prices we pay to live in a capitalist society where the individual's concern for him/herself dominates the concern for everyone else. I would never suggest communism, but better systems must exist, if not today, some time in the future. It is clear that some type of reform will be necessary in the future or annihilation of our world will be at no blame other than our own greed...Jesus help us! End rant.

    --Billy


    A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.
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  21. #21
    34N 118W
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    Games are fun, but

    you didn't really ask a question. More like an order.
    Quote Originally Posted by KgB
    you didn't really answer the question.
    Quote Originally Posted by KgB
    you tell me how they better the enviroment
    "better"? probably not. "Not damage"? Sure.

    I'm no rocket surgeon, but I'd *guess* that if you took two identical, pristine mountain towns and banned cars & trucks from one, allowing only bicycles and foot traffic, and the other had free reign on motorized transport, the motorized town's "environment" would be worse off. The specifics being increased asthma, lung & sinus irritation, chest pain when you do exercise, and a dirtier town overall. Wait, I just described L.A.

    A recent report on "micropolutants" shows that these particulates can get past your body's natural defenses and lodge in your lungs, increasing the chances of lung cancer and heart attacks. People who spend 30 minutes each way daily on major freeways are most at risk. But our shipping ports, diesel trucks and buses, and airports contribute much more to the pollution problem. Kinda makes looking for a "green" car a little pointless when trying to make a difference, but that's still my first choice in a new car.

    "Rod - tell him what he won!"
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  22. #22
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    Please define which problem bikes are a part of?

    Quote Originally Posted by KgB
    BTW most bikes in the US are part of the problem as well as the SUV's
    If you're talking about the production of bikes and their assorted components, and the associated industrial costs then yes, bikes are a very minute problem. But compare the production of bicycles to the largesse and corruption of the US Auto and Oil industries. I wonder if Dick Cheney rides a bike?

    Cars dictate the way cities are designed, then tear up those same roadways resulting in enormous traffic delays both in cites and on Interstates. Cars belch noxious emissions, most are fukking heinous plastic boxes of absolutely zero design taste, but more importantly, THEY KILL OVER 40,000 PEOPLE A YEAR. Of course, that little stat wouldn't go over too well with the buying public, so instead what you have is television ads showing "professional drivers on a closed course" "feeling the excitement" with the entire Utah road system at their disposal. Or maybe they're shredding off road "like a rock." And if the beef is that gas prices are too high, that's simply laughable. Go to Europe and see how far $2 will go. It wouldn't matter if cars ran on water. The problem in America is TOO MANY DAMN CARS. But we lead by such great example, that Beijing recently banned bicycles in the city center as the number of individual automobiles has increased. Go China!

    My point is that if more people rode bicycles, used mass transit, or even car-pooled, there would be less congestion, fewer emissions, and an increase in livability in our communities. Bicycle production might be a part of the problem. But there is simply no comparison to the havoc that SUV's and automobiles cause on our environment and our society.
    carsrcoffins.com

  23. #23
    KgB
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    ten dollar word

    Quote Originally Posted by dodjy
    Maybe you could elucidate your point.

    How do most bikes contribute to the same problems as SUV's?

    After you answer that, go back and read what I wrote again...

    In a fifty cent conversation,where did I compare bikes to SUV's
    I've been inside too long.

  24. #24
    KgB
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    without bikes on the trails

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus
    They better the environment in at least one important way that I can think of: By virtue of the fact that we can't be in two places at one time, if we're on our bikes we can't be behind the wheels of our SUVs.

    They better the environment by improving the scenery. Girls who bike are leaner, prettier. Guys who bike are leaner, more handsome.

    Bikes better the environment to at least some degree because many of us who ride mountain bikes come to care about the trails we ride on, and therefore we give back by doing trailwork. For example our club alone, The Disciples of Dirt, has done over 600 man/hours of trailwork so far in '04, with many more hours to follow in the coming months. All trail users benefit from our work.

    There are additional ways, I'm sure.

    --Sparty
    They wouldn't need improvement so that is not really a good argument.
    But I agree with everything you said.I'm just playing devils advocate.
    I've been inside too long.

  25. #25
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    There's also another point here...

    Even if bicycles do contribute to envronmental destruction through manufacturing and chain lube, cars are MUCH worse.

    I work in the car business. I have seen he way cars are manufactured. Think off all the ways the metal frames are drawn, formed, and welded. Body panels are stamped, welded, and PAINTED. Engines are machined with tons of metal waste as a result. Then there's the fluids... oil in the engine, transmission, axles... plus antifreeze, brake fluid, power steering fluid. All of the fluids are changed and/or leaked during a car's lifetime over and over. Tune-up parts that sit in the landfills... tires... brake pads...I think you get the idea.
    Convince me

  26. #26
    KgB
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    I puposely left out commuters

    Quote Originally Posted by Hurl

    My point is that if more people rode bicycles, used mass transit, or even car-pooled, there would be less congestion, fewer emissions, and an increase in livability in our communities. Bicycle production might be a part of the problem. But there is simply no comparison to the havoc that SUV's and automobiles cause on our environment and our society.
    Obviously the world would be a better place if people chose a bike over a car.There is no disputing that.I think we are in agreement on that.
    My point is that most bikers load their bikes in cars and drive somewhere to ride them,even freakin road bikes,myself included.Lots of petroleum products go into the making of bike parts and lots of stuff gets thrown away with endless upgrades and used up disposable parts.My point is unless you are riding your bike instead of a car you are doing little or nothing to make the world a better place.MTB'ing is generally a selfish sport.
    I know that's hard to accept for a lot of people but that's how I see it.
    I've been inside too long.

  27. #27
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    Beer for everyone!

    Quote Originally Posted by FUD
    The solution, I guess, is either to impose trade sanctions on countries like china and Taiwan that dump on the planet to make cheap bikes or on their American customers which will then be passed on to us, or to recycle bikes a little more.
    So.... should we buy the $400 steel frame/fork combo made in Taiwan or the $1600 steel frame/fork from a domestic frame builder who hopefully takes more environmental precautions? It brings us right back to the Chris King argument... Saving the environment costs money and yet there is no realistic way to prevent all damage. Increasing populations burden the environment by placing exponential loads on its resources. It's a big problem... but saying that bikes contribute to environmental degradation is such an unreasonable statement considering the multitude of things we do each day on a much greater scale... It's like looking at a horribly dirty room after a good night of partying and saying that the dust on the window sill is contributing to its filth. Maybe the piles of beer cans, etc. are a more reasonable target for cleaning.... In the end... get out and ride... that will help! Boycotting Asian steel frames... not quite sure how effective that approach will be... I love my Surly.

    dd.'

  28. #28
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    Eek!

    I didn't know this was going to cause of an angry discussion.

    Me, I just ride my bike.

    Fük cars, selfish drivers, China, Gnomes, cell phones, paint, oil, Uganda, and the Smurfs.

    Still, you guys are my bîtches.

  29. #29
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    I'm not angered by this conversation...

    Quote Originally Posted by ernesto_from_Wisconsin
    I didn't know this was going to cause of an angry discussion.

    Me, I just ride my bike.

    Fük cars, selfish drivers, China, Gnomes, cell phones, paint, oil, Uganda, and the Smurfs.

    Still, you guys are my bîtches.
    I apoloize if the blog comes off a little angry... this is definitely NOT the case. I am just depressed by the TRUTH of the situation.

    In fact, my list of hated subjects is shorter than yours... albeit the selfish drivers (and people) are on the top of that list.

    Time for me to daydream about my bikes.....

    dd.'

  30. #30
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    I think you are all missing the biggest point here...

    Carrying my dog and my coffee to work on my bike is really difficult, so I drive.

    (on the side of the hippies... just sold my 8mpg chevy, took over the wife's 15-20mpg SUV and bought her a 35-45mpg car. one that could run on vegatable oil if it needed to. I feel so.....green.....)

  31. #31
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    improvise

    Quote Originally Posted by Padre
    I think you are all missing the biggest point here...

    Carrying my dog and my coffee to work on my bike is really difficult, so I drive.

    (on the side of the hippies... just sold my 8mpg chevy, took over the wife's 15-20mpg SUV and bought her a 35-45mpg car. one that could run on vegatable oil if it needed to. I feel so.....green.....)
    Well, that's a good improvisation. Switching to a greener car, but why not train your dog to ride in a Burly trailer, and carry your coffe like my friend does, in a water bottle, in a bottle cage...
    Don't get me started on dogs...they're a car with 4 legs...taking them out to poop, can't leave them alone, slober, bark, chasers...GA!
    That's why I have 2 of the lamest cats. Yeah, pets reduce high blood pressure, but they are another thing we become slaves to.

    Whatever happened to when early man used dogs as a hunting tool...

  32. #32
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    Think? interesting..... considering....

    Quote Originally Posted by Padre
    I think you are all missing the biggest point here...

    Carrying my dog and my coffee to work on my bike is really difficult, so I drive.

    (on the side of the hippies... just sold my 8mpg chevy, took over the wife's 15-20mpg SUV and bought her a 35-45mpg car. one that could run on vegatable oil if it needed to. I feel so.....green.....)
    If you would take a moment to read earlier inputs, it was acknowledged early on that this IS a dynamic problem that could obviously be extrapolated on in immense detail. That being said, it was also acknowledged that certain aspects of this problem were indeed ignored in the interest of a more focused conversation. So, upon reiterating what WAS already said, it isn't so much that we are missing the point, but rather we are discussing a fine nuance in the network of life. BTW, carrying a dog (Bob trailer) and coffee(be creative) are among the easier things to do compared to pulling a 8' trailer full of newspapers and bottles through 8+" of snow. (http://www.bikesatwork.com/bicycle-...ng-service.html)

    dd.'
    Last edited by dodjy; 03-25-2004 at 10:09 AM.

  33. #33
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    if I could

    If I could go back in time. I'd kick any gas guzzler pioneer on the scrotum sack and with my trusty iBook, show them the future...any aspect of it, and they would be appalled to know that the innivation of rapid transportation as leasure turned into a monster for society.

    How cool would it be to be back in the day when bicycle companies in the USA numbered in the "many"

    (whoa! a m.i.l.f. just walked by...)

    ...anyway, bikes, or any aspect of their utility give me a 4 hour boner.

    Kenny-G is a moron, John Tesh is a quasi biker, and the Pope blesses Campy components.

  34. #34
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    Yes

    Ride your bike to work if it is feasable. I have a 30-40 minute ride each morning and I arrive to work feeling good and i save a bundle on gas. But we have to understand that it is not always practical for everyone. Ernesto you are the kind of kook who turns people off and in turn lable conservation as radical hippy ****.

  35. #35
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    Thanks Ernesto!

    Yesterday,I found out from you that the Marquette interchange will be screwed for the next several years. My boss moved me from a summer project I could ride my bike to in downtown Mke, to a project 40 miles away requiring to drive through(now around) that [email protected]#!n interchange.

    On top of that my inner dialog malfunctioned, and I blurted out "Are you [email protected]#$ kidding me?" Evidently management does not like that.

    I will wave as I drive my slightly more fuel efficient vehicle by.

    We need more lunatics like you.

  36. #36
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    GA! that blows!

    Quote Originally Posted by hardtail6
    Yesterday,I found out from you that the Marquette interchange will be screwed for the next several years. My boss moved me from a summer project I could ride my bike to in downtown Mke, to a project 40 miles away requiring to drive through(now around) that [email protected]#!n interchange.

    On top of that my inner dialog malfunctioned, and I blurted out "Are you [email protected]#$ kidding me?" Evidently management does not like that.

    I will wave as I drive my slightly more fuel efficient vehicle by.

    We need more lunatics like you.
    Nice, tell your boss that instead of sugar in his coffee, to ad a little of gasoline to it...ugh!
    I get to leave this pain in the áss job early. I get to ride my fixie...
    You guys are my pimps.

  37. #37
    FUD
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    I like my surly too.

    Quote Originally Posted by dodjy
    ... I love my Surly.

    dd.'
    not suggesting anyone boycott anything, buy and ride what you want. read <a href="http://www.slowtwitch.com/mainheadings/features/bikebiz.html">this</a> from a couple years ago on slowtwitch.com. bikes do contribute to environmental degradation, especially if theyre disposable and double plus especially if theyre only used as toys, instead of vehicles. My bike has completely taken the place of a car so I dont have much guilt about riding a taiwanese frame, I think Ive made up for the damage done. Most bikes dont see the use mine does though. most get driven to the trail or left in the garage. they do no good like that.

  38. #38
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    What do you expect?

    Quote Originally Posted by FUD
    not suggesting anyone boycott anything, buy and ride what you want. read <a href="http://www.slowtwitch.com/mainheadings/features/bikebiz.html">this</a> from a couple years ago on slowtwitch.com. bikes do contribute to environmental degradation, especially if theyre disposable and double plus especially if theyre only used as toys, instead of vehicles. My bike has completely taken the place of a car so I dont have much guilt about riding a taiwanese frame, I think Ive made up for the damage done. Most bikes dont see the use mine does though. most get driven to the trail or left in the garage. they do no good like that.
    It is now cheaper to go buy your screaming brat a new 50-pound full suspension from Walmart than have the rusted one from last year tuned up. I would just throw the old one away too.

    Anybody remember the days of dad trading the sting ray in for a new ten speed?

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardtail6
    It is now cheaper to go buy your screaming brat a new 50-pound full suspension from Walmart than have the rusted one from last year tuned up. I would just throw the old one away too.

    Anybody remember the days of dad trading the sting ray in for a new ten speed?
    It costs less to cook a a Sargento Cheese quesadilla than to buy a Mall Wart bike. Dammit! I hate Pacific Cycles.

  40. #40
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    Great thread, with much to think about and maybe some intimation of actual steps to take so's not to be as big a part of the problem........

    I'm 53. Been married 20+ years. Of that time my lovely wife and I have had a car of any type for....lessee.......Five years of that time. Before we met I might have had a car for about a year.No kidding. I am one of those folks who actually hate cars. I secretly lust after Ford GT500's but hate cars just the same. Wierd, but true.

    In that five years total "car time" although I found I could get stuff done tons quicker, my "personal misery index" seemed to escalate along with the need for mechanical services, gas money, oil changes and road rage..........until the idea of actually killing my car with a pistol seemed like a great idea.

    Bicycles work for me. Single speed for basic personal transportation and racing, Xtracycle for hauling groceries and cat litter, cyclocross gearie for real long rides.
    I am happier than I was with a car for sure and I am rarely inconvenienced by the lack of a gas burner. The once or twice a year I DO need a car people I know are more than happy to give me a ride. I went so far as to actually give up my drivers license and get just a state ID card for check cashing and general ID....

    Not everyone can build a life around a bike like my wife and I have - Two years ago we had to move back to a town of 9000 in the Pacific N. W. from a large Texas city to do it and I am NOT looking back at my life in that city with any regret.......Don't make as much money or live in an upscale enclave anymore but I can see the singletrack from my front window.....heh.

    Like I said, it isn't for everyone and your mileage will vary. But I do have to say that the knowlege that I can pack the bike and go is just the best - Today I'm going to hit the single track for a while on my single speed as I do almost every day of the week..........and think about building a fixie to do a little off road scorching.......

    Clifford

  41. #41
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    FlexCar

    nice post Cliff. Glad to hear that you've made your choices and stuck to them.

    for anyone else tempted to go carless (ownership wise), there's FlexCar. Hmmm...

    thanks,
    HW

    PS - mmmm GT500

  42. #42
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    They knew

    [QUOTE=ernesto_from_Wisconsin]If I could go back in time. I'd kick any gas guzzler pioneer on the scrotum sack and with my trusty iBook, show them the future...any aspect of it, and they would be appalled to know that the innivation of rapid transportation as leasure turned into a monster for society.



    Henry Ford knew full well the inpact that cars would have on the world. Why do you think he mass produced them? It's all about the $. The industrial revolution was going full swing 100 years prior to the first car rolling off the assembly line. The rivers were polluted back then. We are a society of consumers. Just go to Wal-Mart and look at all the crap that people are buying. It's amazing. Sometimes it makes me sad, but you can't change society. You can only change your your own behavior, even small changes count.

  43. #43
    try driving your car less
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    zipcar

    Quote Originally Posted by Hollywood
    nice post Cliff. Glad to hear that you've made your choices and stuck to them.

    for anyone else tempted to go carless (ownership wise), there's FlexCar. Hmmm...

    thanks,
    HW

    PS - mmmm GT500
    my brother has been car free for many many years now. and bike-free for that matter. he lives in the city and uses zipcar whenever he needs a car. it is amazingly easy and cool. get a 4wd for a trip to the mountains. get a convertible in the summer. zipcar.com , cars are useful. they are just abused in our society because they are easy. i would love to see only zipcars and taxi-buses (and bikes!). that would be sweet. but then how could one show that he has more money/larger wang than the next schmo?

    zipcar seems expensive, but compared to the cost of owning and operating a car, it's cheap. he chose to live in the center of boston, rather than the suburbs, so there is great mass transit, and parking is a problem if he owned a car. he actually rents his parking spot out to someone for about as much as i paid in rent when i was single and living where i do.

    i am curious how folks have managed to be car-free and riase kids? we use one car only, and very few miles per year. but any addition to the family, and it's carsville for us. we live in new england in a 'subrural' area (as opposed to suburb), and i just cant see it any other way
    Only boring people get bored.

  44. #44
    try driving your car less
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    Quote Originally Posted by KgB
    how much it costs to work.
    sell the cars,quit buying so much stuff,live below your means and suddenly you don't need that job in the city.
    i hear you on that. my take is to stay out of debt. free and clear on everything (except the house now...). that way i dont 'have' to do anything that i dont want to.
    it's the debt burden that keeps people chained to their job. which makes them have to buy a new car for the commuter. which keeps them chained to their job...
    Only boring people get bored.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by ernesto_from_Wisconsin
    Well, that's a good improvisation. Switching to a greener car, but why not train your dog to ride in a Burly trailer, and carry your coffe like my friend does, in a water bottle, in a bottle cage... Don't get me started on dogs...they're a car with 4 legs...taking them out to poop, can't leave them alone, slober, bark, chasers...GA! That's why I have 2 of the lamest cats. Yeah, pets reduce high blood pressure, but they are another thing we become slaves to. Whatever happened to when early man used dogs as a hunting tool...
    Don't get me started on kids....they poop, can't leave them alone, slober, scream, chasers...GA! And they grow up to pollute even more! My dog doesn't drive and never will. If I had a cushy desk job where you just show up and punch keys....stuffing the dog in a trailer and dumping the java in a water bottle might work...then again...we'd probably never make it to the office considering the danger factor of traveling down the main highway.
    Dog's are hunting tools for rednecks who shoot animals for fun. I ride my bike for fun instead. I drive my car to get to work and ride.
    And let's not talk about slavery here. You are a self-admitted slave of the ENO....and you love it. We may become slaves to our dogs...but we like 'em...

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hollywood
    nice post Cliff. Glad to hear that you've made your choices and stuck to them.

    for anyone else tempted to go carless (ownership wise), there's FlexCar. Hmmm...

    thanks,
    HW

    PS - mmmm GT500
    Yeah - I heard about flexcar thang over in Seattle - What a great "idea whose time has come..." for sure. I'd certainly participate if I absolutely HAD to have a car - if I inherited children, for instance.......

    Clifford

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by jh_on_the_cape
    my brother has been car free for many many years now. and bike-free for that matter. he lives in the city and uses zipcar whenever he needs a car. it is amazingly easy and cool. get a 4wd for a trip to the mountains. get a convertible in the summer. zipcar.com , cars are useful. they are just abused in our society because they are easy. i would love to see only zipcars and taxi-buses (and bikes!). that would be sweet. but then how could one show that he has more money/larger wang than the next schmo?

    zipcar seems expensive, but compared to the cost of owning and operating a car, it's cheap. he chose to live in the center of boston, rather than the suburbs, so there is great mass transit, and parking is a problem if he owned a car. he actually rents his parking spot out to someone for about as much as i paid in rent when i was single and living where i do.

    i am curious how folks have managed to be car-free and riase kids? we use one car only, and very few miles per year. but any addition to the family, and it's carsville for us. we live in new england in a 'subrural' area (as opposed to suburb), and i just cant see it any other way
    Good, points JH. Living in the city without a car is easy, and even within the not-too distant 'burbs. (within 128 beltway)
    I live just out side of boston, and I don't drive. bike / MTBA fo' me.
    Zipcar is a great Idea, and the founders are close friends of ours.
    But for anything other than occasional jaunts with the zipcar to go to the mountains, or shopping, it gets expensive.
    As for you living in the 'sub-rural) area, it is very hard without a car, probably impossible living without a car and with kids.
    I guess the message is: make you choices wisely. (living in city,suburbs,rural, car/no car etc.)

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