Why does everybody (but us) constantly bag on hardtails????- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
    Not because I'm fast.....
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    Why does everybody (but us) constantly bag on hardtails????

    In the past year or two, the articles and statements I read in the more mainstream cycling magazines always seem to put down hardtails claiming there is no longer a use for them because full suspension MTB designs are so much better now. Most people I know or meet that ride FS claim that I don't know what I am missing and I realy should consider it! Well, If they are talking about missing waiting for broken frame replacements, rear shock repairs, damaged pivots, etc..then yes, I am missing something because I never have to deal with those issues riding my hardtails. My friends that ride FS deal with those issues quite often and a few more than once.

    In the latest MTB Action Magazine they have an article titled "The Top 10 Most Common Buying Mistakes". Mistake # 9 reads - "Racer Boy Syndrome: "At one time, you truly were a competetive racer. Now, you are a bit heavier and less fit, but you still won't ride anything but a skinny-tired, low-handlebar hardtail - even though it beats your sore back to death and you can barely push it's tall gearing uphill. You should buy a comfortable, dual-suspension trail bike, but noooooooo, you are going to waste your cash on a custom Serotta hardtail instead. Nice garage ornament".

    What??? I like Serotta hardtails. Maybe the people I meet have never ridden a nice steel hardtail and all they know is FS. Maybe the magazines say this stuff because the big name FS bike manufactures buy advertising space in their magazines? I really don't know.

    I have nothing against technology or FS at all, I just like the simplicity and predictable, quick handling way a steel hardtail rides. I also love picking my way down super technical singletrack and doing nose wheelies around tight switchbacks. I pride myself on the belief that I have really good bike handling skills and don't need 5" of suspension in the front and rear to ride something nasty. Not that there is anything wrong with 5" of travel though.

    So after all that, my questions for all of you are:

    1. For all of you that do leave the SS in the garage once in a while and ride a geared mtb bike, is it a hardtail or full-suspension rig?

    2. Since I have never ridden a full suspension bike before, am I truly missing something special?

    Anyway, To each their own I always say and I could care less about what people think or say. As long as people enjoy riding, that's all that matters. I just want to know if I am missing something great by not considering riding a full suspension bike. Thanks for listening to my ranting and raving, I hope everyone has a great weekend!

  2. #2
    ali'i hua
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    i wonder the same thing- $ related, perhaps? marketing? mass media related?

    I also noticed that on the recent cover of mtb fiction the ONLY ht was a litespeed. is that what hardtails are reduced to? single speed, wicked high end, and a few other rarities?

    all my bikes are hardtails except the dean soft tail. about it from me!

    time to go finish the bottle of red- at least I know sparty will be proud of me.

  3. #3
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    Mags, shmags....

    Hey 2Far,

    By choosing to ride a singlespeed your already way off the "normal" cycling path...so why worry about the mags bashing on HT's? I've owned 2 FS bikes, one 6" monster and the EPIC, both left me wanting something with less suspension, lighter and more responsive. Some of us just aren't cut out to "run with the crowd". Accept your choices openly and completely, regardless of what any mag says. The real question is "are you having fun"? If so, I doubt a fully would make you have more fun. Now a trials bike or a MUNI.....

    MC

  4. #4
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    Magazines exist.....

    to make money, in order to sell copies they need things to write about, new technology feeds this need., ergo they wrie about new kit.

    When Magazine contributors/editors blah blah are supplied test bikes all the time, that's all they're going to write about.

    I ride rigid... fully.

  5. #5
    Just Ride!
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    Take what the magazines say with a grain of salt. A few years back I bought a supposed bike of the year winner, Jamis Komodo. The thing is so harsh it rattles fillings and won't climb even the slightest rocky, rooty, wet hill. My other hartail, which is a steel 29er will run circles around it.
    It really is a shame that good and bad MTB frame geometries are seperated from a few degrees. There are probably quite a few people that do not enjoy the sport because of purchasing inefficient bikes.

  6. #6
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    Hardtails for me...

    I have never owned any FS bike but I have ridden two that belong to a riding bud. One is an Epic which he loves. I weigh quite a bit more than he does so it wasn't really set up right for me. I tend to feel slop in the pivots. It feels like it is flexing laterally in the pivots. It just doesn't feel right. We switched one day and he took my converted rigid SS and I rode his Epic. It felt cushy going through rock gardens but it wasn't for me. He couldn't push the gear on my SS and didn't enjoy it either. He takes the big ring off all his bikes and spins like crazy. I push bigger gears all the time even on my geared HT. We are about the same speed. Different strokes for different folks.

    As far as the mags: They write what pays. I think the bike co's tell them what to sell. It's like reading a car mag or a moto-x mag. They all pick a different winner. I think they pick who pays the most for advertising.

    Ride the one you like. Don't worry about they magazine guys. They don't understand us. Not many SS in the mags (except Dirtrag).

    GP

  7. #7
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    I heart HT

    HT bikes are it! Especially steel. I do have a couple that are Alu, but whatever. Steel is by far the most supple material to ride, and it feels good under my groin, and if you're not a pu55y, you'd ride a HT in them hills. My friends know I hate technobabble about their new Trek SUV bikes, and how they have 5.66" of travel and progressive lateral computerized cycloptic damping and a fungal cream dispenser bath in the elastomer stachions made out of unobtanium...me, I just ride. If I ever technobabble, it is because I am explaining ENO to someone on the trail after they had a hard look at my bike...after I passed them up a hill. http://www.adventurefind.com/bikes.html

  8. #8
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    I've ridden a decent amount of hardtails and full suspensions.
    Zaskar's, Fuel, Epic, 9.8 etc... That being said I am on the 9.8 and don't really plan on changing while racing.

    The fuel however was really nice and i would think that if i wasn't racing i'd enjoy that bike alot more. The full suspensions are just too much for a variety of reasons. 1 more thing to break, more weight, less nimble, somewhat unpredictable, lots of places for flex(pivots) especially in those "anti bob" frames becasue they use so many pivots. If you like to get out of the saddle and hammer... you will find a lag/slower acceleration.

    Then theres the issue of maintainance, one more thing to squeak, one more thing to break on the trail. The hardtail is simple and easy. I have had a lot of bikes and a full suspension can be a full time job if you ride your bike hard. Just chekcing all the pivots can be a pain (taking cranks off, torque). Granted some people will just take it to a shop or abuse their bike by just riding it till something breaks.

    But to get the full benefit out of your bike its best to have it working to its potential. I have bikes with discs, and i find myself not checking their wheel trueness as much as I probably should. Theres nothing worse than having a broken bike that you can't ride.. Especially if you only have one bike. I'd make sure to have a hardtail as a backup before selling all my cookies and buying a full suspension bike.

    The full suspension is a great addition to the mtb family but the hardtail is where its at for me right now. As you fly by those full suspension bikes on the trail, fly by on the uphills, you'll appreciate your hardtail more and you'll laugh as they reach for their lockout lever's like they're some fresh salty mc. donalds fries...

  9. #9
    KgB
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    basic economics

    Bike magazines primary goal is to sell bikes and related merchandise.
    These same magazines push singlespeeds as well and also the single speed "lifestyle" the same way Harley Davidson marketed their bikes."buy one of our bikes and you will fit in and be cool"
    Standard marketing and economics here.

    Full suspension bikes have their place and can be alot of fun as well it just depends,they do take a little getting used to and it is a different style of riding.It makes a less skilled rider a better rider.

    If everybody rode singlespeeds I would probably ride a geared bike,that's just the way I am.
    I've been inside too long.

  10. #10
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    Advertising dollars at work. "Be sure to check out the latest and greatest Specialized, Trek, Giant, etc. full suspension bike" (Whoever spends the most advertising $$$ will get plugged the most.)

    Serotta hardtails RULE.

  11. #11
    SS Grrrrrrrl
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    All bikes have their place in the world.

    I started out in 2000 with a really crappy aluminum hardtail (Mongoose frame) and quickly decided that wasn't the bike for me and purchased a short travel FS rig (Titus Racer X). That bike served me well for just over three years and early last year I upgraded to more travel with a SC Blur -- which I still love. Then I got curious about SSing and recently put together a Kona Explosif frame for my SS. I specifically bought this frame so I could run gears if it turned out that I didn't like SSing. Well to my surprise (perhaps not my surprise) I was totally bitten by the SS bug and have a newfound respect for hardtails. I do think that frame material has everything to do with this. Steel is real! But in reality, there are still some trails where I would prefer to ride the FS, both for long term comfort and for increased techincal bravado. Smooth twisty singletrack and short bursting climbs scream out for the SS hardtail. Epic climbs and descents scream out for the FS.

    They both have their place in my quiver. Each with their own strength and weaknesses.

  12. #12
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    Bike magazines do not have a clue as to what they are writing about. They'll write what ever they are paid to write. In the current issue of Mountain Bike (a very lame magazine) they list the Specialized Hardrockk SS as one of their buyer's guide picks. This is a stock Specialized frame that has been stripped of derailleurs and shifters; and had a tensioner put on!? In that price range they could have easily picked something that at least has horizontal drops like the Solo-One or the Monocog.

    I like my hardtails and I don not feel like I am missing out by not having a FS setup. I like things simple and my SS bikes are very simple and fun to ride.

  13. #13
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    Zap

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtcrab
    ...They both have their place in my quiver. Each with their own strength and weaknesses.
    Yeah, and it will be a very sad day when Zap looks to SS in a new light. Zap and T. Brown (SS World Champ) work for Trek...In a fight, Travis would kic Zap's a$$.

  14. #14
    Zippy, the wonder bike
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    I personally think that Mountain Bike Action is full of sh^t. Some guy late last year wrote in and asked how he could upgrade his hardtail MTB, not sure what brand, but it was a decent bike. RC (Richard Cunningham) who is a complete idiot, said that hardtails are extinct now and he should save up some money and buy a full suspension bike. What the hell, hardtails aren't extinct, for guys that can't afford to remortgage their homes to buy a bike a hardtail is the ticket. If I can help it, I will never buy a full suspension bike, if you look in the reviews section of this site at full suspension bikes , most of the reviewers are going on about how they broke their frame or busted a shock, go to some hardtail reviews, the reviewers there are just going on about how fun their bike is to ride.

  15. #15
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    Why would I take MTB advice from the guy who designed the Nishiki Alien???

    I don't like FS, because I don't like the feeling of the the back of the bike moving around. Also, I kep my bikes longer than 3 years, which is about how long you'll be able to get parts for most FS designs. Once the manufacturer changes the design, parts go bye-bye. I'm in the minority with this opinion, but it works for me.

    --Shannon

  16. #16
    Paintbucket
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    I suggest you run right out and buy a high zoot FS rig. That way, when your friends ask why you're riding a (SS) hardtail you can say that you have a FS, but its just not as much fun.

    Works for me.
    Zippy for president

  17. #17
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    ragazines

    Quote Originally Posted by 2farfwd
    So after all that, my questions for all of you are:

    1. For all of you that do leave the SS in the garage once in a while and ride a geared mtb bike, is it a hardtail or full-suspension rig?

    2. Since I have never ridden a full suspension bike before, am I truly missing something special?
    The ragazines are a complete joke. I don't see why anyone wastes their money on that advertising laden and fueled garbage, unless they subscribe to the "keep your friends close and keep your enemies closer" notion.

    I ride a full custom rigid SS and it is by far my favorite bike. I also have a full custom FS and it has its place at times. I also have a rigid geared bike that I use occasionally for high country epic type rides (though the SS is used more for that). Right now I'm having a new 6" travel FS built that I'll use for certain conditions as well. Still, the bottom line is the most fun I have is on the SS and that's what mountain biking is about...fun.

    Only you can answer the "missing something" question. A well designed and built full suspension bike can be a lot of fun on the right trails if you let it be. A poorly designed and built FS can be worse than a walgoose and there are a lot of crappy FS bikes out there (quite a few mentioned in this thread).

  18. #18
    blame me for missed rides
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    bike sales are flat so they NEED to sell bikes to people who already own mountain bikes. bashing hardtail will achieve that goal beautifully.

  19. #19
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    Smile I came from to SS from FS

    I have a Specialized FSR XC FS bike. I raced it and thought the HT racers I competed against were foolish to stay continue to race on it. When I started riding my Motobecane Fly SS, I realized WHY FS is better for racing.

    On a SS HT, you're out of the saddle so much of the time including technical decents. On my FS I'm rarely out of the saddle. In an informal poll of my racing buddies, I found most people stay in the saddle 95% of the time. Well, no wonder FS is better. BUT, if you ride a HT and get out of the saddle more like 60-75% of the time and train like that, you're going to win more races because you can climb faster.

    Now, when I race, if I don't race SS, I'll be racing my HT and racing out of the saddle a lot more. That's what my SS taught me.

    Oh, yeah. I jokingly say 'It doesn't matter HOW uncomfortable a saddle is on a SS, since you are never in it long enough to suffer from it. So, go LIGHT!!"

  20. #20
    Rolling
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    And to add:

    Off the rags for two years now and feeling much better. Those mags are are just parts pushing toilet paper. Why would they tout HTs?

    What they don't tell you is how come my rear shock is back at factory being worked on.

    Or how you have to check and lube and maintain pivots regularly.

    SS is simply the extreme of simplicity in this whole bike thing.

  21. #21
    Ride what you want!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by ernesto_from_Wisconsin
    Yeah, and it will be a very sad day when Zap looks to SS in a new light. Zap and T. Brown (SS World Champ) work for Trek...In a fight, Travis would kic Zap's a$$.
    Hell, in a fight, Michael Jackson would kick Zap's ass.

    I just buy magazine's for the pictures now a days anyway. I don't really read them anymore. Blah blah blah... pretty picture... blah blah blah .... pretty bike.... blah blah shoot out blah blah blah....

    george
    Trogs: Too Tough for Carbon Fiber

  22. #22
    Back of the pack fat guy
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    yes and no

    Quote Originally Posted by 2farfwd
    1. For all of you that do leave the SS in the garage once in a while and ride a geared mtb bike, is it a hardtail or full-suspension rig?

    2. Since I have never ridden a full suspension bike before, am I truly missing something special?
    1. It's a full suspension, after years of riding nothing but hardtails. The HT I replaced (Gunnar Rockhound) just didn' fit me right, and the FS frame I bought (Superlight) to replace it was a better fit, nearly as light, and almost as cheap. Plus, I wanted to see what all the FS hype was all about. I like it probably as much as I do my SS (mostly stock SISS), but it gets much different use than the SS does.

    2. No. To each his (or her) own.

  23. #23
    theHeadlessThompsonGunner
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    Obvious: aside from the Kona A or Cove G-Spot, we don't have a choice.

    1. I own two bikes: Road SS and Mountain SS. I like them both very much, but never ride the road bike. I rode a full sussy bike breifly (~2 months), and sold it, for obvious reasons. This was before I started SSing.

    2. No.

    Is 'everybody' MBA? I sure hope not. Alas, I read that crappy rag pretty much every month, for no reason at all. Just don't take any of it as truth, or even half-truth, and ignore most every sponsor-driven opinion they express.
    "I've courted brain damage like some courtesan of darkness."


    -The Good Doctor

  24. #24
    Retro Grouch
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    Cool-blue Rhythm FS lead me to SS

    Quote Originally Posted by 34x16
    I have a Specialized FSR XC FS bike. I raced it and thought the HT racers I competed against were foolish to stay continue to race on it. When I started riding my Motobecane Fly SS, I realized WHY FS is better for racing.

    On a SS HT, you're out of the saddle so much of the time including technical decents. On my FS I'm rarely out of the saddle. In an informal poll of my racing buddies, I found most people stay in the saddle 95% of the time. Well, no wonder FS is better. BUT, if you ride a HT and get out of the saddle more like 60-75% of the time and train like that, you're going to win more races because you can climb faster.

    Now, when I race, if I don't race SS, I'll be racing my HT and racing out of the saddle a lot more. That's what my SS taught me.

    Oh, yeah. I jokingly say 'It doesn't matter HOW uncomfortable a saddle is on a SS, since you are never in it long enough to suffer from it. So, go LIGHT!!"
    Three years ago I was riding a Bontrager HT and because of FS envy I built up a Jamis Dakar. A great bike but it left me with a HT I wasn't riding so for a hoot I converted it to a SS. Well that was the end of the Dakar and the rest is history. I sold the Dakar to a buddy, had a EBB Rocklobster built and ride a fixed gear road bike. The only geared bikes I still ride are a tandem and an old GT to tow an Alley Cat. If the truth be known, FS make lousy SS because of the monkey motion that eats up your pedalling.

    1G1G, Brad
    Last edited by aka brad; 02-28-2004 at 09:11 PM. Reason: clarity

  25. #25
    If you have to ask...
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    The crowd I ride with

    has almost entirely converted back to hardtails from FS. This is despite riding in San Diego, which is bumpier than just about anywhere.

    One of my friends, Billy (an occaisional poster on this board) had a Stumpy FSR. He borrowed an Indy Fab I had lying around for a ride in Mission Trails (a very bumpy area). His quote when he brought the bike back? "I can't believe how nice that rides. I've never ridden a bike that handles that well before."

    More of my riding buddies ride HT than FS, and these are dedicated riders with high-dollar bikes. All of us HT riders had been FS riders in the past, too... From my perspective, it seems that FS are the dying breed.

    miles

  26. #26
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    Well, I have both, I have a full-rigid SS and a Full Squish Gearie (Actually 2 of them). They each have their advantages and disadvantages. I really wouldn't want to lose either of them but if I had to choose though I would keep the FS because it's the better all-day epic ride bike by far. As far as repairs go, yes I have broken my frame but never had a problem with the rear shock and when the frame broke it was only 1 week till I had a shiny new replacement. I got the FS as a replacement for a broken hardtail frame so I don't see much difference. If you're worried about pedalling efficency my FS becomes a hardtail with the flick of a switch but my hardtail could never convert into an FS.


    Oh yeah.. And my FS weighs about the same as my hardtail did.

  27. #27
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    #1) My other bike is a rigid geared steel bike. It hangs next to an Ellsworth Joker frame.

    #2) Experience fs on a cheap Joker frame!

    Not serious about #2 but that stripped down frame sums up how I feel about fs bikes. The most important point of riding is to do it as often as possible. The mags will go under without the ad dollars so they push the latest and greatest. Get a good fitting bike and go ride!!

  28. #28
    Combat Wombat
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2farfwd
    In the past year or two, the articles and statements I read in the more mainstream cycling magazines always seem to put down hardtails claiming there is no longer a use for them because full suspension MTB designs are so much better now. Most people I know or meet that ride FS claim that I don't know what I am missing and I realy should consider it! Well, If they are talking about missing waiting for broken frame replacements, rear shock repairs, damaged pivots, etc..then yes, I am missing something because I never have to deal with those issues riding my hardtails. My friends that ride FS deal with those issues quite often and a few more than once.

    In the latest MTB Action Magazine they have an article titled "The Top 10 Most Common Buying Mistakes". Mistake # 9 reads - "Racer Boy Syndrome: "At one time, you truly were a competetive racer. Now, you are a bit heavier and less fit, but you still won't ride anything but a skinny-tired, low-handlebar hardtail - even though it beats your sore back to death and you can barely push it's tall gearing uphill. You should buy a comfortable, dual-suspension trail bike, but noooooooo, you are going to waste your cash on a custom Serotta hardtail instead. Nice garage ornament".

    What??? I like Serotta hardtails. Maybe the people I meet have never ridden a nice steel hardtail and all they know is FS. Maybe the magazines say this stuff because the big name FS bike manufactures buy advertising space in their magazines? I really don't know.

    I have nothing against technology or FS at all, I just like the simplicity and predictable, quick handling way a steel hardtail rides. I also love picking my way down super technical singletrack and doing nose wheelies around tight switchbacks. I pride myself on the belief that I have really good bike handling skills and don't need 5" of suspension in the front and rear to ride something nasty. Not that there is anything wrong with 5" of travel though.

    So after all that, my questions for all of you are:

    1. For all of you that do leave the SS in the garage once in a while and ride a geared mtb bike, is it a hardtail or full-suspension rig?

    2. Since I have never ridden a full suspension bike before, am I truly missing something special?

    Anyway, To each their own I always say and I could care less about what people think or say. As long as people enjoy riding, that's all that matters. I just want to know if I am missing something great by not considering riding a full suspension bike. Thanks for listening to my ranting and raving, I hope everyone has a great weekend!
    First, my answer to #1. It was a hardtail, but I just bought a FS rig and after 3 weeks of riding, I have decided the hardtail is going to be collecting dust.

    My answer to #2. I do not know if I would call it special, but it definately makes mountainbiking more fun. I can ride all day on trails that used to make my back and legs ache. I am very surprised at how much better my FS bike outclimbs any HT or rigid bike I have owned. I do not mean hills that you can hit with some speed and use your momentum, but the very steep hills that have you in your granny gear, sitting on the nose of your saddle to keep the back wheel from spinning out. Even on flat trails, I have found that I can corner faster. Properly setup rear suspension does the same thing to the back wheel as a good fork does to the front, it keeps the tire glued to the ground. I never realized how much my back wheel skipped around on my Zaskar.
    Most companies now use cartridge bearing on all the pivots of their FS bikes and the stable platform technology, that is becoming more commonplace, really works. If you try a bike at a LBS or try a friends, keep in mind that even the best handling FS bike will feel like crap if it is not setup specifically for you. If I change the air pressure in my back shock by 10 pounds, not only does it affect the way the bike feels under power and how it handles bumps, but it changes the sag which changes the steering angle. I often wonder about this when I read about someone that tried a friend's bike and did not like it.
    As much as I like my FS bike, which is a Giant VT-1, there is something about a rigid steel SS that pulls at my heart. There are places where I ride, that 5" of travel seems like overkill and there are places that I would be carrying a SS as much as I would be riding it.
    Hey, variety is the spice of life. The wife will not let me have a brunette and a redhead and I can not afford all the cars I would like to own, but I have 6 bicycles out in my garage. Do not ask me which one I would keep, if only allowed one. I do not even want to have to think about that. Like you said, to each his own as long as they are having fun.

    Brian

  29. #29
    Pivoteer
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    There are some very good points from you kids...

    I just made the switch to SS in September, and believe that I will never go back. I thought I was at the pinnacle of mountain biking with my $4500 Titus switchblade, decke out with everything you would ever want. As time passed though, and new technology became available, suddenly the Titus was a subpar bike.
    I got into SS'ing, quickly soid my Titus and have learned a great deal about the hardtail revolution. First a foremost, there is no more intelligent suspension in the world than the human body, using of course the brain (hope specialized doesn't sue me). My knees are locked out when they ned to be and ultra plush when they need to be.
    I have found I enjoy my hardtail a great deal more, even here in Phoenix where it is extremely rough and rocky. I feel more connected to my bike. Sure i am slower on the real techincal downhills, but the other 80% of the time I am a lot faster.
    I am not too concerned about the Magazines, we may not get a great deal of recogintion, but we will get recognized when we are passing all of those other guys on 30 pound tanks. What about the idea of a 35-40 pound trail bike (Foes)? No thanks.
    By the way, did you read the results of the MBA customer survey? I think about 53% of the people surveyed had hardtails as their primary bike.

    Don't fret, just ride.

  30. #30
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    good debate

    THis has been a great debate. In a couple of hours, after re-vegging and watching the tail end of my favorite 6 second abs, real estate investment, and portable steamer infomercials, I am going to do a 35 mile SS ride. Why? because I enjoy it and my bike rocks, and it's all SS.

    Fool suspension bikes are my enemies. Too complicated and an excust of a better, more supple ride for those who have monkey butt. if my memory banks serve me right, I did own a GT LTS for about 5 months. it's only major ride was a ride in Steamboat Springs, up Mt. Werner...a few months later I sold it to a friend after I had converted my Bontrager to SS by the aid of an old Suntour direllieur.

    it blew me away at how I could climb faster, and just have fun! And I didn't convert to SS just because it was "different" back in 97. I did it becasue I hated having to adjust everything. So with a 44/16 in the Chicago area, it was so much fun, and then on trips to Kettle Moraine, I'd just swap cranksets. I had an old Sugino with a 32 ring, and I never had to change chain length. The suntour direllieur did the trick of keeping the chain tight, without adjusting it.

    Triathlons, that's another story.

  31. #31
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    I believe its about bike mags trying to help sell bikes.
    When I restarted riding 5yrs ago I was astounded at how people would look at me sideways on my old univega, it was pretty cool in 1989.
    I now ride a KHS team and a converted alpinestars SS. My friends who want to get in to mtbiking are afraid to buy a $500 starter only to be told, by all the so-called hardcores, that they need to dump $4000 to be on the cutting edge.
    I say its a bicycle, keep it simple.
    P.S. All my motorcycles are full suspension.
    Last edited by desrcr; 02-29-2004 at 08:57 AM.

  32. #32
    Out spokin'
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    Bikes are tools

    Quote Originally Posted by SlowSSer
    time to go finish the bottle of red- at least I know sparty will be proud of me.
    First, I must say I've always been proud of you, Ethan, and always will be. You're like the son I never had.

    Yeah, right!

    As for bikes, (and I'm not speaking specifically to Ethan anymore ) personally I feel we're just as wrong to hammer those who choose FS as they are to hammer us folks who choose SS. If they pick a fight, sure I'll respond, but I won't get defensive. I'll just point out that I'm not going to make them ride something they don't want to ride and they ought not to be pointing the "I'm smarter than you" finger at me.

    Most everybody on this board knows that I have a custom Vulture SS that I love so much it hurts. Some also know that I have a 7-speed Sugar 1 that is so decked it smells like chocolate. It's almost as light as my Vulture (to the tune of 'goodbye $$$') and I absolutely love that bike, too. Nonetheless, the Sugar sits most of the time while I ride the Vulture because I just plain enjoy the discipline of SS more. But...

    ... not all the time. I did the 100 mile + ~17,000' vert Cream Puff on both bikes (Sugar in '01 and Vulture in '02). I was 2.5 hours faster on the Sugar. 2.5 hours! That's a lot, boys and girls. My Sugar is an '01 model so it only has 2.75" of rear wheel travel (this bike is from before GF's multi-position travel link days) but that short travel is way sweet -- feels like much more travel than it really has yet it doesn't bob while standing.

    Not trying to sell anybody on FS. I don't care what you like to ride. I'm just saying different tools for different jobs. If you need to pound a nail, grab a hammer. But you wouldn't use a hammer to turn a screw. Let each individual rider choose the right tool for himself.

    If your tool kit only includes a hammer, well, make it work, bro. (I've used a hammer to drive a screw before. )

    Yeah, I realize I'm lucky to own a dozen bikes. (But not as lucky as Terminaut!)

    --Sparty
    Last edited by Sparticus; 02-29-2004 at 01:41 PM. Reason: Because I can
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  33. #33
    singlespeed smash brother
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    I started Mtb riding on dualies. First an LTS then a heckler which I loved to ride. I built up a ht as a comute and decided to take it off road a few times. It breathed life back into trails that had become dull on my FS and rekindled my mtb passion. Soon after I went ss for fun and that was it. Sold the dualie and now have 3 hard tails. 2x SS and one gearie. Sometimes I wish for an nice light weight duallie for those epics and 24hr races but not enough to buy one. I found riding FS I would always get a sore ass and numb crotch cos I rarely got out of the saddle. I much prefer the aggressive style of riding that a ss HT forces me to adapt. The irony for me is that I was racing A dualie when the mags were saying it was all wrong and a waste of time to do and now I'm racing HT SS which I hope makes some mag writer's head explode. I must be sick or something.

    BTW I was just at the oz national champs on the week end and the HT class in down hill is growing and is very compeditive. For me HT dh is way more fun.

  34. #34
    Nouveau Retrogrouch SuperModerator
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    Quote Originally Posted by 34x16
    ...On a SS HT, you're out of the saddle so much of the time including technical descents. On my FS I'm rarely out of the saddle. In an informal poll of my racing buddies, I found most people stay in the saddle 95% of the time. Well, no wonder FS is better. BUT, if you ride a HT and get out of the saddle more like 60-75% of the time and train like that, you're going to win more races because you can climb faster...
    And they would be faster descending on the FS if they got out of the saddle. Your body provides more suspension than most sussy bikes and you can shift your weight easily for better handling when you are standing.

    Suspension does let you go faster but it also lets you "get away" with sloppy technique. If your goal is going fast or just riding efficiently suspension (or gears) is not a substitute for just plain old good riding technique.
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  35. #35
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    It's all a trade off...

    It's all a trade off.

    you can see it as 2 extremes.. on one side the full decked out modern FS bike, and on the other a fixie SS rigid bike. and a whole range of stuff compromises in between.

    like probably no one in their right mind will ride fixie in the mtns. so they compromise and add a freewheel. but you also add more weight, more moving parts/more parts to fail but the advantage being you don't have to pedal all the time...

    gears/derailleurs are another compromise. again, more weight, more moving parts, more parts to break and hit on rocks, but people use them, because the advantage is that it's really handy to be able to change your gear ratio.

    same with front shocks... it smoothes out the ride a bit better, but adds weight, moving parts, parts to break, part to fail..

    you see where i'm heading with this?

    FS is just another evolution of this compromise. we've just gotten really good at making freehubs/shifters/derailleurs/front shocks work well enough that for the most part they keep us on the trails a lot longer than they keep us off. and if FS bikes haven't reached that point yet, are coming up real fast in the reliablity dept.

    and yes, there are advantages to FS bikes. but are they worth the compromise? to you no. even gears are too much compromise for you. fair enough. don't fret. you'll always be able to buy a HT, just like you'll always be able to buy a SS.. but you can't ignore the fact that the FS bike will rule the mass market, whether it's all marketing or not...

    anyways, ride whatever. but you should try an FS sometime. if you don't like it, then whatever. but at least you'll know.

    GL,
    -don

  36. #36
    Bikes not Bombs.....
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    Magazines, FS, SS and what is really important to me....

    I stopped reading the bike mags in 1994, at that point I was anoided by the sell like hell bravado the mags had going. They lost their objectivity and started the great American sell out. I never looked back.

    I never rode a fully. So I have no opinions on them, simple, sorry , no BS'ing ya'all.

    The last front Suspension fork I owned was a 1992 RS mag21. I am no genius when it comes to front spingers, I let the Path Bike Shop pick one out for me for the new PW ride, a Fox F80 RLC, hopefully it is a good one.

    I am somewhat informed on rigid or as we in the know call them - static forks. They add a different dimention to riding. They improve your bike handling skills and aid in climbing hills with no bobbing. I love them.

    What is important to me?

    That I can ride a bike, a SS bike. That is all.

    I suck when it comes to technical trails, suck even worst when it come to racing friends. Althought they love to race me, cuz it is an instant win for them. At 48 years old, and a spare tire around the middle, I don't need to prove anything to anyone on the race course, and couldn't prove anything even if I wanted to. I love bikes, I have fallen in love with SS bikes. I sold all my other bikes I had except a 1992 Yo Eddy hard tail, rigid fork classic. I might buy one more geared bike if I think I want one later on, but it probably won't be a fully.

    People jump on the FS band wagon because they see everyone else doing it. They are fed lies and subliminal messages via the magazines. At races, you see the creme of the crop on FS's, racing their hearts out. Good for them, Good for all the people who choose to purchase a FS bike because they see others on them. I hope they use them and not let then collect dust in the garage.

    But for me, I fell pretty hard for the SS bikes. I think I have found something in the bike arena that I relate to, love to play with and feel comfortable riding. Maybe you feel the same way.

    Let your friends ride the FS's if that si what they want. Good for them. When I ride a SS, I feel part of a brotherhood that I did not feel riding other types of bikes. The community of SS'ing people may not be the largest audience, so our choices are limited somewhat, but our passion burns strong and long into the night, or is that the beer???. Thank goodness for the small builders who provide us with quality bikes and gadgets to keep us amused and occupied.

    I am now returning control of the internet back to you, thanks for letting me rant on, and on, and on......

    JS
    Thanks to all of you for your friendships on this board..... -

  37. #37
    Te mortuo heres tibi sim?
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    hey rich? you becoming part of the ss fold????

    ahem. as for the original post.
    one full rigid ss
    one hardtail geared
    both with ti posts and seat rails (maybe it makes a diff, maybe not.) both with big fatties front and rear in the tire department. dearly love riding htem both. some days it's damn hard to choose. 50/50 ride time of the two, lately. both steel. fwiw, my cross bike, my geared roadie, and my fixie are all steel too.

    i've not really had a chance to ride a fully other than parking lot tests, so can't really comment on them effectively. but....i ride everything my riding buddies do on my steel bikes (well, except for some things i haven't gotten thecojones to do yet, but that is me, not the bike) and many of them are on fullies.

    doesn't really matter to me. gears, ss, hardtail, fully. whatever. it is fun to ride past folks on a nasty section of trail, and have them be amazed "that anyone could ride that on a hardtail/ss"

    i must also confess. i have lusted in my heart, for several years now. after a sc heckler. sigh.
    Florence Nightingale's Stormtrooper

  38. #38
    I just got goth served!
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    And Blink 182 is Punk!

    The problem with magazines is that they are revenue generating machines. Their main purpose is to sell advertising. Consequently, their content appeals more to potential advertisers(real income) than readers. How many of these magazines are actually about bike culture, as opposed to the "latest and greatest" new products. Hell, quite often the shorter reviews are actually just reprinted press releases from manufacturers.

    Hardtails aren't going away unless we are on them pedalling away. Besides, isn't the point of singlespeeding to just ride your bike? Five years ago, singlespeeding was supposed to just be a trend. Hmmm...

    Like many riders, I have a whole quiver of bikes, Road bikes, fixed gear, SS, hardtails, and FS. My two main MTB rides are a Bullit, and a Surly, two very different bikes. Most riders with multiple bikes own at least one hardtail. I honestly believe that there are skills that you just won't learn on a "big bike". Hardtails(esp. SS) teach you finesse, momentum, and handling that improve your riding on any bike. Even in the freeride world, they have their place.

    Hardtails are here to stay, even if we sometimes bounce down the trail.

    brian
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  39. #39
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    Since everyone else chimed in....

    I'll add my two yen. I've only owned HT's but have ridden both when I went through my "do I need a FS" phase. In the end, I went steel HT, the SS, now I am looking at building up a freeride/park/urban bike and guess what my choice is? Yup, HT! I like the predictability and responsiveness of the ride. The FS is awesome going downhill but seems kinda one dimensional to me and the maintenance (based on my friends experience) is simply not worth it. I certainly won't crack on those that liek them but it never took me more than 10 minutes of riding a dually to wish I was back on my hardtail and thats all the convincing I needed. The only time it ws different was when I rode an NRS Air for 4 days in Palm Springs and Im not sure that even qualifies as a FS bike in the truest sense in that it felt as close to a hardtail as I can imagine (either that or there was too much air in the shock). Anyway, I really like my HT's and can't see changing but then again, I never guessed Id be a singlespeeder either.
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  40. #40
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    Own hard tails... rent FS when traveling..

    For the kind of riding I do here in TX I feel fine on a HT. Less likely to break or need something special from the shop = more time riding. That's number one for me. The SS is just an extension of that along with being good training. You can get a great workout from a relatively short ride on the SS.

    I will use my gearie (HT, Klein Attitude) for the Ouachita Challenge 100K in March and my Cannondale 1FG for a 12 hour race in April.

    I will rent a Gemini or a Bullit in Moab this spring.

    Mike

  41. #41
    Not because I'm fast.....
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    Thanks for the great responses!

    Very good points everyone and entertaining reading to say the least! You all convinced me, sell the hardtails and buy a motocross bike. Just kidding.

  42. #42
    KRN
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    its about damn time!

    I agree I read MBA but they are pissing me off I just bought a Redline mono-cog HT & I love it it has a Manitou SX fork I was in a very bad car wreck 3 years ago I gained about 50 Extra pounds so I thought a SS would be a better way to lose the weight AND Bush up on my riding skills I do belive that starting off on a HT your a much better rider then a FS you know your boundies better. Yes the didnt talk about the Redline Mono-cog in a article called take the pain out but then they never did talk about it again in the buyers guide or ever again what gives it seems that they are pushing bikes the arvage rider cant afford I do want a FS in the furture but I'll have to buy just a frame & build me one none of the people I know can afford $1,500 for a bike they are pushing it to afford $600.00 why cant they get it not everyone has access tot hat kind of money & let people ride what they cant afford & want just as long as its not a wally world special or a K-mart blue light! LOL

  43. #43
    dragonfly
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    Its just like the computer industry 300 mhz was FINE for most people but once sales start to stagnate the next best thing has to come out to keep the industy alive. I like FS but it needs to be light and nimble which ends up cost 3-5k ... no thanks i'd rather get a motorcycle for that kinda cash.

  44. #44
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    So glad to see I'm not the only one...

    Just spotted this posting.

    HT all the way! And in fact now that I have a 29'er; rigid, ss all the way (steel of course). I am having more fun than EVER on this bike. Everytime I think about taking one of my 2 other bikes out for a ride, front suspended, 26" and geared, my head gets woozy, my heart slows down and I feel like sleeping. Then I think about riding the 9'er and all is goodness and light - excitement reigns!!

    And who are all those FS dudes I pass on the downhills? And not just in normal riding but in races too? That's what I want to know. Never mind uphills. Encumbered with all that extra weight and complexity, I feel sorry for the FS dudes half the time.

    FS certainly has it's place and there are riders who know HOW to ride and take advantage of FS in certain situations. It certainly looks like fun in some respects. But it's not for me. I tried it and it did not work. But that doesn't mean it ain't ok for some and for some situations!

    For those magazines to crow on about how HT's and 29'ers are passe, finis, obsolete and stupid, is ludicrous. MBAction is the worst offender in my opinion. I actually liked that mag for a lot of it's good info but recently cancelled my subscription when RC came out with his asinine "bubble" issue. That was the last straw for me. What a freakin' moron! Actually maybe not a moron - he probably gets big bucks for pushing expensive junk on people who don't need it.

    Give me simplicity, lightness and great handling, then call me a retro-grouch all you want but you'll be looking at my back when you say it. Race you to the top FS dudes! And then to the bottom, you just might beat me there if the course is right

    Adios and out

    P.S. Has anyone seen RC?

  45. #45
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    Ahhh..the infinite wisdom of Calvin and Hobbs. The only time I've felt the actual need for FS is doing stupid (read DH/Urban shenanigans), and when I start cramping muscles during a race. I'd like some squish for the stupid stuff because my ankles and wrists can only take so much. And when you are fighting cramps it would be nice to just sit and spin, not have to stand for a descent or technical section. But due to the extra body english needed to move the SS/Fixie through a trail, no suspension is the only way to go.
    Slowly slipping to retrogrouchyness

  46. #46
    Reviewer/Tester
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    Full Circle..

    I ride both SS HT and FS bikes.

    I very recently ordered a new SS HT.

    I can afford to buy whatever bike I want, but chose the SS HT over the latest FS bikes because I prefer the feeling of the HT SS.

    Standing up on a bike is more natural than sitting down, imo.

    To me, standing up and grinding my way up hills on a HT SS feels "right", whereas sitting down and spinning in a granny gear feels "wrong".

    I have been through the whole gamut of bikes, from HT to FS.

    I have now come full circle, back to where I started out years ago....

    I am back to the basic HT SS and that is where I am staying.


    R.
    It is inevitable ...

  47. #47
    mad aussie
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    Until late last year I was the proud owner of a Turner 5-spot, it was a fantastic bike, great suspension action and handling. I sold it in part because it made riding my regular trails too easy. It felt like I was just providing the motor, it was point and shoot.

    Now on the Inbred SS with 80mm up front I feel like I am more engaged in the trail, picking lines and working around obstacles. I think for a lot of riders the full suspension bikes are great. They do make riding easier, but I must be one of those masochists who doesnt like the easy way.

    SS'ing has added enjoyment to old trails.

  48. #48
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    I've never found the need to "upgrade" to an FS through any weaknesses in my HTs. I have five bikes, two have gears and there's only one suspension fork in the fleet. I'm building up an SS HT at the moment as well. This doesn't seem strange to me?

    Racing on my geared HT the other day the course was winding through singletrack with occasional fireroad sections for passing. I only used two gears for the whole race, 42/21 95% of the time and 42/18 for the quick downhill sections. Some of the guys I was behind on the other sections, many on trek, cannondale XC FS bikes spent so much time shifting gears so that they could spin, seated up the hills they slowed themselves down ! I can get out of the saddle, crank it up and swing the bike around the corners on those hills - I don't have to worry about a bobbing rear end robbing me of any power. I love that ! My only limitations are my legs and the traction of my rear tyre.

    The more technology you have attached to your bike, the more you'll feel inclined to use it, whether it's necessary/helpful or not. I think I'll have to speed up that SS HT project. Rigid? I think yes.

    - Joel
    Cycling is Serious Business.

  49. #49
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    As has been stated before, magazines exist (to paraphrase the immortal Douglas Noel Adams) "not to deliver articles to their readers, but to deliver customers(readers) to their advertisers, as an attempt to defray the massive publishing costs"

    lets be honest here, as Singlespeeders, we're not exactly the most lucrative market segment, as we're all about simplifying our bikes and leaving stuff *off* the bike, what would a SS mag consist of, really, but reviews of the latest tensioner/eccentric hub/bottom bracket/track ends and flip-flop hubs, and unlike the latest Uberbike hardware promoted in mainstream rags, there's not much that needs to be "upgraded" on a SS, once you install the required part, there's no need to upgrade to the fancier / newer model, is there?

    ...it's not like Surly's going to come out with the New Super-Singulator "DeoreXTMegaSuperGlideFeatherweight" model made of the new super-rare miracle metal Ultra-Unobtanium (that saves almost .0000000000000000000000001 picograms of weight, Now in Ultra-fashionable, low calorie, Atkins-Approved anodized colors**, get one of every flavor act now, supplies are limited...) and we'll all suddenly rush out to buy them and get into heated debate over which colors are better and roll smoother......




    ** What, me, Cynical? NOOOO!!!
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    Gears, we don't need no steenking gears!

  50. #50
    AussieLostInNyc
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    good stuff

    this is interesting because I am currently finding myself drawn to the new 29er fs bikes.
    I currently ride a rigid SS Karate Monkey and have never ridden a squishy. I pedaled one for 2min actually on a ride last year but between the small wheels and bouncing I couldn't wait to get off it.
    I keep wondering if the fs will make me faster or give me balls to drop off bigger things but I think that comes down to the rider. I understand the people who agree it lets them ride longer. I am feeling a little abused from a technical 3 hour ride today where people stared at my rigid ss setup like I was on crack.
    I want to know how many HT riders use front suspension? When was the last time we did a poll on this? I know they have been done.
    www.nycmtb.com
    .....spreading the love

  51. #51
    dragonfly
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Wombat
    Until late last year I was the proud owner of a Turner 5-spot, it was a fantastic bike, great suspension action and handling. I sold it in part because it made riding my regular trails too easy. It felt like I was just providing the motor, it was point and shoot.

    Now on the Inbred SS with 80mm up front I feel like I am more engaged in the trail, picking lines and working around obstacles. I think for a lot of riders the full suspension bikes are great. They do make riding easier, but I must be one of those masochists who doesnt like the easy way.

    SS'ing has added enjoyment to old trails.

    Exactly... thank GOD my LBS let me rent out a Prophet 2000 this weekend.. I took it out and my local semi-tech trail just felt like a fire road. I just sat my ass down and peddled while I rolled right over 5 inch high roots/rocks/debris... dunno it just doesn't feel right. Climbing is dull too ... the flip side is FS tech has come a long way as I felt no bob. Worst is tight single track as I wasn't use to the extra weight and I slammed into trees 4-5 times. Basically no FS for me cept maybe some cheap old thing like a proflex or GT LTS from 1999 just to mess around with.

  52. #52
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    Full Circle

    First bike at age 5 - Single speed coaster brake rigid Malven Star
    Then a 3 speed internal hub geared bike
    Then a "Dragster" 5 speed
    Fast forward to Adult
    Bunch of road and mountain bikes geared and front suspended
    Then the be all and end all Seven Duo FS (also had a spot SS, thought it needed a partner)
    Along came my PISSOFF SS mtn (first with font suspension and the rigid) , wow don't ride the Duo much
    Then the PISSOFF SS CX , not riding my Seven geared CX much
    Then PISSOFF Fixed gear road , now my Seven geared road bike has cobwebs on it

    Now I am in the process of having a 29er built (based on throwing the 3 PISSOFF's in a blender and the resulting bike will be a little bit of each)

    I am now allmost back to where it all started

    SS Rigid HT is where I should have stayed all along

    Happy HT riding

  53. #53
    Not because I'm fast.....
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    Resurrection

    Wow, this old thread of mine sure came back to life unexpectedly. Unfortunately, I can no longer live a lie......last summer I bought a Ventana 6" travel full boinger and it's a mighty sweet bike. I still love hardtails though, and my SS will always be rigid

  54. #54
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    That's so funny!

    I can no longer live a lie......last summer I bought a Ventana 6" travel full boinger and it's a mighty sweet bike. I still love hardtails though, and my SS will always be rigid

    Enjoy the new ride!

  55. #55
    Recovering Weight Weenie
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    for long distances, the body experiences less fatigue on squish.
    this is not debatable.

    sometimes, squish isn't about "performance" but about endurance.

    also, complaing about squishies without riding one is plain silly.

    i love my hardtail.
    i love my squishy.

  56. #56
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    Two years ago I had an HT and a SS Commuter. My back was getting beat up on 3hr+ rides so I thought I'd try an FS. After sampling many different FS I bought a short travel FS (3.5"). I had to sell the HT since I only have room for two bikes. For me this bike rocked. It was light, didn't bob much and climbed really well. The trouble was it was too small so I reluctantly sold it.

    I thought this was a good opportunity for to try out the longer travel "all-mountain" style of bike and picked up a used 5" FS. Descends well, very grippy on climbs; but (and its a big but) normal trail riding is dull. Most of the local rides do not need 5" of travel. Not only is it un-necessary it takes away some of the fun.

    I'm just about to get a new ride - a SS 29er. I'll let you know how it compares. It will initially be rigid but I'll see how it goes. I'm keeping the FS for now. I wonder how much it will be used?

  57. #57
    (was) Big in Japan
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    I love HTs too...

    Just replaced my Blur with a cheapo 29er HT (in SS mode). I don't miss the Blur at all, I doubt I'll ever go back. I've always loved HTs - for their weight, simplicity, and the ease of lofting over bumps. The more suspension you have, the more you need it!

    29er HTs just take it to another level again.

    Here's a pic or two for those that missed my post in the 29er forum. Sorry abt the quality, camera phone on a gloomy day.

    cjm
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    Ride.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Padre
    for long distances, the body experiences less fatigue on squish.
    this is not debatable.
    Check the GDR results, 26" rigid SS HT did pretty well.

  59. #59
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    I just like bikes...

    2Far you started a great thread and you had some good points. I would say if you like riding your SS than good, its all about the ride, right? However, if you have never tried a FS you owe it to yourself to get out and at least try one. Maybe you wont like it, maybe you will but you will never know till you try.

    OKay so I dont have a SS, either rigid or front suspended BUT I want one. I also want a 40 lb downhill monster and one of those 30+ lb 5 and 5 trailbikes and a new lightweight road bike as well...I have had a couple of FS (Dakar Expert and Turner Burner) and I like them, before that I had a ALU hardtail and was happy to go to FS from it. I have ridden a TI hardtail and that was magic, so I have no doubt that ┬┤steel is real┬┤ as all the converts claim.

    The point I was trying to get to was that I cant say if you are missing anything or not. That is up to you and what gives you the most grins. I like my FS and I like all the technology but I also know that you can have fun on a bike no matter how many gears, whether or not is has suspension and whatever the wheel size. To each his own, but in my book anyone on a bike, no matter what type is a brother of mine, just get out and ride.

  60. #60
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    Hear, hear!

    To each his own, but in my book anyone on a bike, no matter what type is a brother of mine, just get out and ride.

    CDtofer - you are right and despite my HT rantings and preference I understand the FS thing. Yesterday, we followed a couple of dudes on 8" travel bikes through some big rock gardens at WP and it was fascinating to watch them clear stuff with no perceived effort - like a slo-mo movie of guys rolling over giant boulders while just sitting quietly in the saddle. It was the exact opposite of my frenetic pace and error correction. Pretty cool.

    Just the constant harping on HT's demise is what get's me and it probably shouldn't if I just ignored the silly mags (Dirt Rag excepted of course!).

    It's all good!

  61. #61
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    Hear, hear!

    Doh! ok, Doh! again!
    Last edited by edemtbs; 07-25-2005 at 08:37 AM.

  62. #62
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    I have a geared HT, as well as my trusty SS, and I don't see myself buying a FS anytime soon. One of my riding buddies has a '03 Trek Fuel 90, which creaked horribly for the last few months. He tried everything- new bushings (which btw are ALUMINUM!!!), New BB, lubed up seatpost, the whole 9 yards. Finally, he notived that the top tube was cracked near the joint with the seat tube. He sent it back to Trek, who said they would replace the frame for him within two weeks. Two weeks later, they call and say that, since they don't make the Fuel 90 anymore, they will fix it instead. Fix it? WTF? So my friend calls up Trek and asks what they are doing with his bike. Turns out, Trek decided to cut out his top tube, weld a new one in, and then repaint the entire bike. Six and a half weeks latert, he still dosn't have a bike. Talk about horrible customer service. That's a big part of why I ride a hardtail. No issues with companies chainging their designs every other week. I don't think dualies perform better either.

  63. #63
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    Damn i love my FS........

    Hah did that get ya worked up....

    Yep full circle for all of us HT SS riders....but i truly do like riding my FS too

    Started with a Trek 930 converted steel frame SS, while i had a litespeed HT geared race bike,and then bought a santa cruz superlight race bike as well......

    I so love riding my superlight that the litespeed is now the SS and the poor trek is sitting unused in the corner cursing my name...however i did get a few good races out of the old trek ss before she got sidelined

    But i like the lightness of the ti SS now...i can throw it all over the place...

    decisions decisions...what to ride today?

    -Boz
    "I'm supa-fly TNT, I'm tha guns of the navarone!"

  64. #64
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    I started out riding rigid hardtails. That's all there was at the time. I rode the first three Mammoth Kamakazes on rigids. That's all there was at the time. I still ride rigids, but now they are singlespeeds. One a steel I have had from '85 and a newer ti that I have had 10-12 years. I also ride a 1x9( sometimes run 3x9) ti hardtail with a 100mm fork and a 5 spot. All four are keepers. I tend to ride SS most of the time, but ride the others alot also depending on where and who I am riding with. It nice to be able to have a quiver of bikes. It' all about having fun and all four are. FS has its place. Although I sometmes scare the sh**t out of my self how fast on some lines I wind up going on the Spot.

  65. #65
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    who cares?

    Why do you care what other people and the mainstream magazines think? Ride what you like. Nothing else matters. If you really want to know if you're missing out on something, ride a full suspension bike and make the determination for yourself. Also, it sounds like you are reading the wrong magazines. Try Dirt Rag out. Or if you can find it the British magazine, What Mountain Bike. They clearly don't care what the advertisers think. Just get out and ride.
    Oh, and to answer your question, I ride a 1995 Trek 930 full rigid steel hardtail that I converted into a singlespeed and a 2002 Cannondale Jekyll 800 full suspension. I try to ride both equally so one never gets jealous of the other.
    "The stupid shall be punished."

  66. #66
    Not because I'm fast.....
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssbn742
    Why do you care what other people and the mainstream magazines think? Ride what you like. Nothing else matters. If you really want to know if you're missing out on something, ride a full suspension bike and make the determination for yourself. Also, it sounds like you are reading the wrong magazines. Try Dirt Rag out. Or if you can find it the British magazine, What Mountain Bike. They clearly don't care what the advertisers think. Just get out and ride.
    Oh, and to answer your question, I ride a 1995 Trek 930 full rigid steel hardtail that I converted into a singlespeed and a 2002 Cannondale Jekyll 800 full suspension. I try to ride both equally so one never gets jealous of the other.
    Please consider that I started this thread over a year and a half ago! I don't care what anyone thinks about my choice of ride....I do read Dirt Rag...and I now own a FS bike. I'm over it. Word.

  67. #67
    an eagle in your mind
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    folks bag on them because theyre fat andthey think they need a 35lb freeride bike to ride on family/fogging trails

    in regards to magazines... ALL BALONEY literature, as far as im concerned. 98% of the mags on the newstand for computers, car tuning, bikes, running, weightlifting, etc are JUNK--catered to the very lowest common denominator and filled with ads.

    i suppose our crowd is more sophisticated and we're more acquainted with bikes than most are


    heck, on my rigid, i wish only for *slightly* more cush on the FRONT end, not the rear
    Last edited by redfooj; 07-25-2005 at 03:09 PM.
    living on earth is expensive, but it includes a free trip around the sun -bill woods

  68. #68
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    I agree..who gives a damn!?

    I ride a Giant FS and A Marin Stiffy. I love them both. I ride them both just about everyday. Sure, FS bikes might be the "mainstream" but I think SS are more the "trend". "If you wanna be cool, ride a SS". I had a SS for a while, sold it and got the Marin. Nothing was wrong with the SS except I needed to be somewhere faster...so gears work better for me. I never though riding a stiffy would be bad, I just knew it was going to be used for different riding. I'd never ride some 30 miles Epic singletrack with the stiffy, the FS just performs/feels better..that's all. So, really, what do you like? Ok, grab it, go outside and ride it!

  69. #69
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    i think i am gonna be ordering my first squish frame soon. after more than 25 years of riding hardtail:

    To air is human, to dig is divine.

  70. #70
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    steel x 2

    Quote Originally Posted by 2farfwd
    For all of you that do leave the SS in the garage once in a while and ride a geared mtb bike, is it a hardtail or full-suspension rig?
    SS = Bianchi rigid
    Geared = Jamis hardtail

    The Jamis now has a riser bar, and works just fine for this 43 year old man even riding in the GWNF (East coast rocks) every weekend. The key is a nice fat tire, and going a bit slower. Currently I have a high-zoot Turner 5-spot double-boinger at my disposal, but I still prefer the hardtail. When you spend 75% of your time climbing, it seems best to optimize for that.

    Oh, and DIRT RAG is the only mag with real world reviews.
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    Last edited by mtnpat; 07-26-2005 at 05:20 AM. Reason: because I can

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