White Industries eccentric hub convolution- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
    lpt1
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    White Industries eccentric hub convolution

    Hello All!
    I have purchased a new WI ENO excentric hub and noticed some convolution between its axel ends. There is 4* (four degrees) angle relative to each other (see picture). After disassemble it was determined (with two rullers applied to flat axel end surfaces) that little angle errors are in both axle ends and axel middle part, summarizes to 4 degree total error. Is it a normal tolerance or critical defect?
    Egor
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  2. #2
    holding back the darkness
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    If I'm understanding this correctly, I don't think this will have any practical effect. Once tension is applied and the hub is torqued down it shouldn't matter. As long as said convolution is at the opposite end of the eccentricity from the axle.

  3. #3
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    Just loosen the ecc. end caps, re-align and tighten to spec.

  4. #4
    lpt1
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    In this case hub rotation axle and a line from one bolt to another are non-parallel. Offset is about 0,64mm over the 135 mm. As a result, correct wheel can't be parallel to correct frame, and incline direction depend on eccentric position! (unless I failed one dropout from 10 mm to ~11.5mm diam. and play within this room, but I don't like to adjust correct part to match wrong part)

    End cup realigning is impossible due to ovalized interface between axle and end cap. In addition, the bolt that affixes the axle end to the axle is offcenter --> some failing here can't help.

    http://www.whiteind.com/images/ENO_E...UCTIONS_4_.pdf

  5. #5
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    huh? Guess you're hosed then.

  6. #6
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    Singlespeed's shouldn't be that complicated.
    Nobody will hurt you more than yourself

  7. #7
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    White Industries is run by the machinists. Let them know.

  8. #8
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    Some one's an engineer with a set of calipers aren't they?
    next time

    [QUOTE=spazzy] Might as well sell your bikes, E-riding is much more productive.

  9. #9
    aka baycat
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    Call White Industries to sort it out. They have great customer service and might know what the hell you are talking about. I sure do not.

  10. #10
    Retro Grouch
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    Quote Originally Posted by lpt1
    In this case hub rotation axle and a line from one bolt to another are non-parallel. Offset is about 0,64mm over the 135 mm. As a result, correct wheel can't be parallel to correct frame, and incline direction depend on eccentric position! (unless I failed one dropout from 10 mm to ~11.5mm diam. and play within this room, but I don't like to adjust correct part to match wrong part)

    End cup realigning is impossible due to ovalized interface between axle and end cap. In addition, the bolt that affixes the axle end to the axle is offcenter --> some failing here can't help.

    http://www.whiteind.com/images/ENO_E...UCTIONS_4_.pdf
    Okay, I get it. But I am puzzled by your statement.
    Quote Originally Posted by lpt1
    that little angle errors are in both axle ends and axel middle part
    Are you saying, that both the axle and ends have this offset? It appears that the slot is machined through the entire axle. In that case, if there was any offset in the axle, this slot would have had to be machined in a spiral. Is that right? It would make more sense that the axle ends are out of spec. Since it appear the axle ends are the same part (left and right), a 2 deg error would result in a 4 deg offset. So is it really both the axle and axle ends, or just the axle ends?
    Just one more rep and I get the toaster!

  11. #11
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    Perhaps take it all apart and re-insert the axle ends in the axle?
    Thanks to www.weavercycleworks.com for my awesome bike frames!

  12. #12
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    FWIW, I had a WI drive side crank that was very slightly off center so the tension changed on each revolution. WI replaced it without seeing it. They said it happens every once in awhile.
    I have a WI eccentric hub on a road bike and am also puzzled how, what you are discribing, matters. Their customer service will take care of "problems".

  13. #13
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    It matters, in that the axle position will be slightly off at either end of the hub. Unlike a regular hub where the axle is basically a long rod running through the centre, on the ENO, the eccentric ends are independent, and could theoretically be machined in such a way as to not be 'true.'

    I would call WI about it. They'll sort you out. You probablyh just need to replace the central axle piece, as it has probably been machined slight askew.

    FWIW, I have no idea what I'm talking about. I just had an ENO for a while, and dissasembled it a couple times. And my mom says I'm pretty smart.

  14. #14
    jdg
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    No, basically he/she is saying that the flats aren't on the same plane which has no effect on the function of the eccentric adjustment of the axle.

    So I would say it is a normal tolerance, probably within spec, and not a critical defect most certainly.

  15. #15
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    If the flats are not on the same plane it is not possible to fully rotate the eccentric. This because the virtual axle of the ecc, which you bolt to the frame is not parrallel to the axle of the hub.

    And if it works the wheel will not be perpendicular to the virtual axle so the wheel will always be askew in the frame.

  16. #16
    lpt1
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    Thank's to the comments!

    Quote Originally Posted by blsuedeshu
    Singlespeed's shouldn't be that complicated.
    Yes! but so expensive parts shouldn't be that wry.

    Quote Originally Posted by aka brad
    Okay, I get it. But I am puzzled by your statement.Are you saying, that both the axle and ends have this offset? It appears that the slot is machined through the entire axle. In that case, if there was any offset in the axle, this slot would have had to be machined in a spiral. Is that right? It would make more sense that the axle ends are out of spec. Since it appear the axle ends are the same part (left and right), a 2 deg error would result in a 4 deg offset. So is it really both the axle and axle ends, or just the axle ends?
    It seems as a "spiral" effect is presented in all three connected parts, approximately 1 - 1.5 deg per unit and unfortunately in the same direction. I have tested each part separately to locate the problem. Axle ends are the same part, with equal small error.

    Quote Originally Posted by DiDaDunlop
    If the flats are not on the same plane it is not possible to fully rotate the eccentric. This because the virtual axle of the ecc, which you bolt to the frame is not parrallel to the axle of the hub. And if it works the wheel will not be perpendicular to the virtual axle so the wheel will always be askew in the frame.
    It is true. I think that its not a problem to install a wheel in any eccentric position, but while I rotete an eccentric, wheel will wolk side to-side by +-3 mm.

    I sent an emeil to WI, wating to the answer...

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by lpt1
    I sent an emeil to WI, wating to the answer...
    I wonder if it's just a case of tolerances all being at their limit, and in the same direction.

    Anyway, you're better off simply calling WI. It can take them a couple days for them to respond to an email.

  18. #18
    lpt1
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    More accurate mesurment indicates that spiral effect is mainly located in both axle ends, and only 0.2 degree error is in middle alu part. Total error is 3.8 degree or 0.5 mm offset between outer bolts. Some photos:
    http://public.fotki.com/lpt1/whiteind/

    I received a reply from WI: "The one end may have been set up incorrectly..." and they ready to send me new axle set.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails White Industries eccentric hub convolution-preview.jpg  


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