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  1. #1
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    White Industriesí ENO Hubs

    So, I built-up a rear wheel with a White Industries ENO Hub as what I thought to be a short term fix while I tried the single speed thing out. Now that Iím hooked, Iím also realizing I like the ENO Hub and eccentric disc mount better than any other single speed options (i.e. frames with sliding drops and eccentric BB). I raced on the ENO last year and was wondering if anyone had any long term/racing experience on this hub? In other words, can anyone point out a down side to the ENO Hub?

  2. #2
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    i have a rear ENO hub in the mail, my friend. i couldn't find any down sides with them, /shrug.

    i plan on using it for the long term... i went with a WI front hub too... the M16

    should be good. enjoy the SSing!!
    Ibis Tranny 29


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    I've been beating mine up for almost a year now a few races and not any problems at all.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mallanaga
    i have a rear ENO hub in the mail, my friend. i couldn't find any down sides with them, /shrug.

    i plan on using it for the long term... i went with a WI front hub too... the M16

    should be good. enjoy the SSing!!
    Yes, you should be getting that stuff tomorrow.
    I packaged the cranks with a lot of love.

    My salty Salsa Mamacita has the ENO disc caliper and ENO hub. Not an issue. Actually, a better interface than a frame with horizontal dropouts IMO.

  5. #5
    i ride bikez!!11!
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    Someone on here posted his new Ti frame that he had built around an ENO because he didn't like the other options. It's a good solution.

  6. #6
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    unfortunately, i'm in no hurry to get that stuff, E. my jabber won't be here for another 2 weeks or so. bleh... thanks for the love, though

    since the WI hubs run on sealed bearings, there should be no problems with leaking seals and the likes. i'm looking forward to the trouble free riding that WI is going to provide
    Ibis Tranny 29


  7. #7
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    sealed

    Quote Originally Posted by Mallanaga
    unfortunately, i'm in no hurry to get that stuff, E. my jabber won't be here for another 2 weeks or so. bleh... thanks for the love, though

    since the WI hubs run on sealed bearings, there should be no problems with leaking seals and the likes. i'm looking forward to the trouble free riding that WI is going to provide
    sealed bearings is right!
    I do have a stack of sealed bearings sitting on my bench, waiting for the day when I'll change out the old ones. The old ones (my original ENO is 4 years old) are still good.

  8. #8
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    I agree that it seems to be the best tensioning system available, and I'm quite happily using one myself. It's also cool being able to make virtually any frame into a proper single speed using one. The downsides are as follows:

    1. The hub is fairly heavy at 380 grams for the disc version.

    2. Freewheel only. I personally prefer a freehub, but using a freewheel is a sacrifice happily made.

    3. It's incompatible with some frames. I haven't seen this first hand, but there are frames, like ones which use Breezer drop outs, which don't have enough material to properly interface with the hub.

  9. #9
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    don't forget... there's a normal version as well. some eric guy created the eccentric version. if you have a bike with sliding / horizontal dropouts, you can get the normal ENO hub and get all the benefits of a solid hub.

    just a heads up...
    Ibis Tranny 29


  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by bad mechanic
    I agree that it seems to be the best tensioning system available, and I'm quite happily using one myself. It's also cool being able to make virtually any frame into a proper single speed using one. The downsides are as follows:

    1. The hub is fairly heavy at 380 grams for the disc version.

    2. Freewheel only. I personally prefer a freehub, but using a freewheel is a sacrifice happily made.

    3. It's incompatible with some frames. I haven't seen this first hand, but there are frames, like ones which use Breezer drop outs, which don't have enough material to properly interface with the hub.
    1. Agree. Any FW+hub is a heavier set up.

    2. Only if it's a WI FW

    3. I have enjoyed 3 plus years of reliable, properly interfaced, service on my old frame with Breezer drops
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by J_T
    1. Agree. Any FW+hub is a heavier set up.

    2. Only if it's a WI FW

    3. I have enjoyed 3 plus years of reliable, properly interfaced, service on my old frame with Breezer drops
    I like that!
    Mind if I use that image for a new pic for the site?

    All my freewheels are about 4 years old...all in good shape. The one I use the most is the 16t one. Mostly on road on the Land Shark...that thing's da bomb.

  12. #12
    J_T
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    Quote Originally Posted by ernesto_from_Wisconsin
    I like that!
    Mind if I use that image for a new pic for the site?
    Permission granted

  13. #13
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    I run a non-eccentric ENO and a std WI hub up front. Best set of hubs I've ever owned.

  14. #14
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    I have been enjoying mine for several years now. The only problem is that sometimes in certain ratios I can't get rim ideal rim alignment with my canti pads. I don't remember which brakes I had that problem with, but I had the problem none the less. So worst case is that certain ratios may require chinging out both chaninring and cog to keep the pads able to reach the rim as it rises or falls in the drop outs. I hope I explained that well.

    That is a for the non disk hub.
    My tapeworm tells me what to do.

  15. #15
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    I have been racing on WI hubs since 2005. The downside of the eccentric version for me is the relative difficulty of wheel removal and installation, e.g. if you have a flat. The fact that all your spare wheels have to be eccentric as well is also a downside to me.

    I have also had problems with chain drop when using the hub with certain frames (but not others -- no idea why). This is a pretty rare occurence, but it cost me significant time in two races but I was not pleased.

    Last year I swore off racing the eccentric hubs. I swapped out the ecc. axle assemblies on my three ENO hubs to make them non-eccentric and use them with a Soulcraft Convert. Now I only wish there was a QR upgrade available.

  16. #16
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    yes

    yep, that's a given...but how often do you change ratios?

    With my Mamacita, I am happy I slapped the ENO disc on it. I really wanted the Salsa Mamacita. When I did, setting up the hub made it for a *****in' bike. With ENO, any frame is SS. No need for an eccentric bottom bracket.

    One thing I am keeping an eye out for on ebay is a Nishiki frame with the elevated chainstays. That would be a nice SS.

    Another thing I'd like to have would be an old Slingshot frame or a GT Zaskar and turn them into ENOfied frames.

    I had a Bontrager Race (pre-Trek) and put my 1st ENO on it. I regret selling that frame.

  17. #17
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    steel

    Quote Originally Posted by PeanutButterBreath
    I have also had problems with chain drop when using the hub with certain frames (but not others -- no idea why). This is a pretty rare occurence, but it cost me significant time in two races but I was not pleased.

    That happened to me too when I had ENO on a steel Gunnar frame. The flex caused the chain to drop. I had the tension on too tight. Same chain, 34/17. So I slapped the other rear wheel I had brought with me, a 16t one, and no chain drop.

  18. #18
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    Probably right. This happened most frequently on my Ti hardtail, less so on my steel Soma and not at all on my Cannondale CX Optimo and CAAD4 frames.

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    I think they are a great idea but...

    I think they are a great idea but...

    They would be so much more versatile if they had a free-hub version. I mean I have to go to the cost of have a custom wheel built with the hub, and various gears require an expensive free-wheel but in order to switch back to gears ( I like ss and gears) I have to have a second wheel. Once you find out how many spacers you need for proper chain alignment it would be a quick change to go from a cassette to a single cog. I have emailed White Ind. about this in the past and they say they have no plans -- I wish they would reconsider. This hub in a free-hub version would be another great alternative to the sliders vs track-ends vs ebb debate.

    Ernesto - do you know if White Ind is considering this option?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by eman2
    Once you find out how many spacers you need for proper chain alignment it would be a quick change to go from a cassette to a single cog.
    Wouldn't you have to remove/install the RD, cables and shifter & swap chains?

  21. #21
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    M15

    Quote Originally Posted by eman2
    I think they are a great idea but...

    They would be so much more versatile if they had a free-hub version. I mean I have to go to the cost of have a custom wheel built with the hub, and various gears require an expensive free-wheel but in order to switch back to gears ( I like ss and gears) I have to have a second wheel. Once you find out how many spacers you need for proper chain alignment it would be a quick change to go from a cassette to a single cog. I have emailed White Ind. about this in the past and they say they have no plans -- I wish they would reconsider. This hub in a free-hub version would be another great alternative to the sliders vs track-ends vs ebb debate.

    Ernesto - do you know if White Ind is considering this option?
    You could go for a M15 rear hub. Same rules apply as anything that would use spacers. I don't have any of these in stock...
    M15 with a Gusset Kit would look nice.

  22. #22
    i ride bikez!!11!
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    The inner diameter of a freehub is small than that of a freewheel, so the axle end wouldn't have a lot to clamp onto...that may be one of their concerns with an eccentric freehub.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeanutButterBreath
    Wouldn't you have to remove/install the RD, cables and shifter & swap chains?
    Your right, there would be more involved than I said, but its still cheaper than having two wheels and having to worry about a chain tensioning system on the frame.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by xmynameisdan
    Someone on here posted his new Ti frame that he had built around an ENO..
    That might have been me. I've had problems with an EBB and wouldn't have gone that way again for anything. While having no personal experience with sliding dropouts, there's just no way having dropouts built like that could be as strong and stiff as a good old simple vertical dropout. I tried out the ENO eccentric on a bike before committing to building around it and found it to behave well in all regards. The WI ENO builds a nice strong wheel -- symmetric flanges see to that. Finally, I've not had a problem with tensioning the chain -- the wheel just drops in and "self-tensions" in the "forward and up" position, and putting the wheel in like it's set-up now would not be a liability in a race. With the gearing I have now (something I run most of the time, 34 x 21 on a 29er) the wheel clamps into the Breezer dropouts without a problem. The frame was made by James at Black Sheep -- there's all sorts of great things about this frame, not just how well it deals with the ENO.
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeT
    That might have been me. I've had problems with an EBB and wouldn't have gone that way again for anything. While having no personal experience with sliding dropouts, there's just no way having dropouts built like that could be as strong and stiff as a good old simple vertical dropout. I tried out the ENO eccentric on a bike before committing to building around it and found it to behave well in all regards. The WI ENO builds a nice strong wheel -- symmetric flanges see to that. Finally, I've not had a problem with tensioning the chain -- the wheel just drops in and "self-tensions" in the "forward and up" position, and putting the wheel in like it's set-up now would not be a liability in a race. With the gearing I have now (something I run most of the time, 34 x 21 on a 29er) the wheel clamps into the Breezer dropouts without a problem. The frame was made by James at Black Sheep -- there's all sorts of great things about this frame, not just how well it deals with the ENO.
    Hey PeT,

    Nice bike! Are those BS custom bars or something else? What is the spec on the bars?

    Not to totally derail... Could you explain this part of your post a little more?

    "the wheel just drops in and "self-tensions" in the "forward and up" position"

    I'm not sure I can picture what you mean (I have no ENO experience).

    Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wish I Were Riding
    Are those BS custom bars or something else? What is the spec on the bars?
    They are in fact BS bars, but just loaners. They've got something like a 15 degree sweep and are 28" wide. James is going to make me something a little more to my liking (less sweep, and a little less wide). I was thinking about one of his "mountain mustache" bars, but I'm leaning towards a pretty standard straight bar with bar-ends...

    Quote Originally Posted by Wish I Were Riding
    Could you explain this part of your post a little more?

    "the wheel just drops in and "self-tensions" in the "forward and up" position"

    I'm not sure I can picture what you mean (I have no ENO experience).
    Yeah, that's wasn't a very good description, let alone accurate. I've got the chain length set such that the eccentric is forward in the dropout (the actual place where the axle is rotating is forward of the bolts) and it's rotated towards the upside. There would be an equivalent chain tensioning position if the axle position was rotated down (just like there's two positions for tensioning with an EBB). The way mine is setup now, the weight of the frame pressing down on the wheel bolts tensions the chain without any need for a wrench. This makes the bottom bracket assume a slightly lower position than if a non-eccentric wheel were in the dropouts. To move the eccentric to the higher position (and raise the bottom bracket), I need to use a cone wrench to hold the eccentric in the proper position while tightening down the bolts that fix the wheel in place. So far, I'm happy with the lower bottom bracket position (about 11.5", with 175 mm cranks, only pedal strikes are into snow and ice at this point). Maybe the attached picture/close-up will help...
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  27. #27
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    Right now your chain is self tensioning in the forward/up position. I set my chain length so mine self tensions in the away/down position, since I'd rather it raise my bb and steepen the ha on this particular frame. The system self tensions from the weight of the bike in the forward/up and away/down positions. Tensioning in the forward/down and away/up positions requires, as mentioned above, using cone wrenches to set the chain tension. I thinks it's a pretty elegant system and can pull the wheel and replace it with proper tension very quickly.

  28. #28
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    I was at a bike shop on Sat...took a stroll down the bike isles. Most of the bikes I saw (except for some triathlon frames with very tight geometries) could successfully be transformed into SS without the need of tensioners or EBBs.
    I did see one though, the Ferrous from GF. I was checking out it out (I'm a sucker for nice steel frames) and when my eyes went towards the bottom bracket...I kept walking.

  29. #29
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    I love my eno, eccentric, on my Seven. I tried a few things to "try out" SSing, and sold my full Suss geared bike.
    I still have my geeared wheel, but it's been hanging up for over 1 yr, with no plans to ever get it back on the bike. I keep thinking I'm going to get a dedicated SS frame, but I just don't see that happening... Maybe if I crack the 7, which is now 5 yrs old.
    Oh, and as far as abuse goes, I usually races about 25 racces/ year.

  30. #30
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    Could we get some pictures of disk brakes set up with ENO's? Please?

  31. #31
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    Here is my setup


    I had problems with the adapter hitting my seatstay. I filed the adapter down for more adjustment.



    I finally ended up using a front 160mm adapter and some shims so I could run the hub in the down position.
    =========================================
    Minnesota Off Road Cyclists www.morcmtb.org

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    So what if I change my gearing....

    So what if I change my gearing....

    I go up a few teeth in the rear cog -- how involved is re-adjusting the brake setup?

    I guess you could always have a few different chain ring sizes as well -- then you wound not have to mess with the rear brake at all! Thats probably a cheaper what to go about it if you can find the right combination. Salsa chainring $20 or new ENO free wheel $80.

    I look at it this way -- the hub allows you to get any frame you want -- you don't have to buy a specific frame just based on the tensioning system.

    I just might have to bit the bullet!

  33. #33
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    bite it!

    Quote Originally Posted by eman2

    I look at it this way -- the hub allows you to get any frame you want -- you don't have to buy a specific frame just based on the tensioning system.

    I just might have to bit the bullet!
    Here's my setup...

    18t ENO freewheel on a 42 chainring. For commuting purposes. The frame? A Salsa Mamacita, only meant for my ENO. I've been eyeing up this frame for a while. It is my SS mtb/29er/commuter.
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  34. #34
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    Are there any freewheels that would fit the fixie side of the flip flop hub? or would they make a flip flop hub that has the same threading on both sides?

  35. #35
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    works

    Quote Originally Posted by ridindog
    Are there any freewheels that would fit the fixie side of the flip flop hub? or would they make a flip flop hub that has the same threading on both sides?
    there's something in the works...a splined cog to a splined hub. Don't know release date yet.

    but Shinano Dura-Ace, Surly, Phil, yojimbo brands can fit.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by ernesto_from_Wisconsin
    there's something in the works...a splined cog to a splined hub. Don't know release date yet.

    but Shinano Dura-Ace, Surly, Phil, yojimbo brands can fit.
    so those are freewheels that will fit the other side of the eccentric hub?

  37. #37
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    no

    Quote Originally Posted by ridindog
    so those are freewheels that will fit the other side of the eccentric hub?
    no, freewheels are the ENO one, ACS, Shimano BMX ones...the other side, with the double step threads is for them fixie cogs.

  38. #38
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    ok thanks for the info

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeanutButterBreath
    I swapped out the ecc. axle assemblies on my three ENO hubs to make them non-eccentric and use them with a Soulcraft Convert. Now I only wish there was a QR upgrade available.
    Call WI and order some. IIRC they go for about $20.00 + shipping.

  40. #40
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    Eno Eccentric slippage

    Eno eccentrics work great on drop outs that are flat and thin. I've been using one on my titanium dropouts without an issue....

    If your drop outs have a raised ridge on the inside where the eno makes contact with the frame you will get slippage. As long as the eno eccentric makes 100% contact with the frame inside drop out you should be ok.

    Another issue with thick drop outs is that the bolts for the eno are not long enough. I was getting about a 1/4inch bolt threaded into the eno. Not good especially when I was getting slippage.

    I had an scandium frame which did not have flat drop outs on the inside of the dropout. Always kept slipping. I could have filed it down but decided to get another frame with slidding drop outs............

    just my experience....

    ENO eccentric will NOT work with every drop out......

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