White Ind Eno Freewheel vs Hope Pro II SS- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    White Ind Eno Freewheel vs Hope Pro II SS

    Anyone out there have any experience with the White Ind Eno freewheels? I currently have Paul Word hubs and freewheel on my setup and my bearings are needing replaced. Looked at the White Ind Eno freewheel as a replacement but don't know much about these and this set up. It does look like they use the bmx tool to change the freewheels out so I assume that I can use the White Ind on the Paul hub, if I'm wrong somebody please tell me. I've always heard good stuff on the hopes and the convenience of quickly interchanging cogs is beneficial to me due to places I ride but I can get the same ratios with the White Eno by changing the front chainring so its really a moot point. I know the Hopes are good hubs and I think both have 36 point engagement and 3 prawls so mechanically there going to be relatively the same. Just looking for some experienced feedback from someone who can vouch for either.

  2. #2
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    I think the Hopes are 4 pawl, 48T engagement for the SS version.

    The ENO freewheel is good. I like mine and it has withstood a New England winter, spring and early summer so far. It does skip here & there however... not often but definitley noticeable when it does.

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    I have the hopes and i have not been happier. they are loud just so you are aware but you get used to it. I feel i roll much faster than anyone else, and thats on a fully rigid 29er. when they are pedaling i am coasting and gaining ground on them. they are great hubs and i don't think i would go with anything else in the future.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by redwarrior
    I think the Hopes are 4 pawl, 48T engagement for the SS version.

    The ENO freewheel is good. I like mine and it has withstood a New England winter, spring and early summer so far. It does skip here & there however... not often but definitley noticeable when it does.

    $70+ and they still skip? i'm glad i went with a SS-specific freehub.

  5. #5
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    LOVE my ENO trials freewheel. 6 pawl, 72 pts of engagement. only comes in 18t but worth it.
    Winter is coming.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by coachjon
    LOVE my ENO trials freewheel. 6 pawl, 72 pts of engagement. only comes in 18t but worth it.
    Si

    If they skip, that's because the teeth are probably getting very worn out. They can be replaced.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by ernesto_from_Wisconsin
    Si

    If they skip, that's because the teeth are probably getting very worn out. They can be replaced.
    he's ridden it less than a year and it's already time to replace?

    like i said, i'm glad i didn't buy an ENO freewheel. i love my ENO cranks on my 26er, but that's about all i'll purchase from White Ind.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexrex20
    he's ridden it less than a year and it's already time to replace?

    like i said, i'm glad i didn't buy an ENO freewheel. i love my ENO cranks on my 26er, but that's about all i'll purchase from White Ind.
    well, then that's just weird.

  9. #9
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    Hey thanks for the input guys. I like my current setup and the Paul hubs and rims I've got are in good shape and roll true so don't really see the benefit of getting a whole new setup so gonna sick with them and go with the White Industries Freewheel. For some reason thought the trials freewheel was fixed but for only $10 more will definitely go with the 72 POE.

  10. #10
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    Couldn't be happier myself with my WI Trials/Eno hubs. Threads right on a standard freewheel hub. Fairly loud but not as loud as a Hope or King. Definitely ranked third in that category I think if not second to Hope.

    I don't think he said that he already had a Eno that was skipping. He stated that he had a Paul set up with a freewheel.

    I don't blame you for not building a whole other set of wheels for this problem. The freewheel will take care of you. Build the wheelset when the time comes and your current hubs are blown.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by redwarrior
    I think the Hopes are 4 pawl, 48T engagement for the SS version.

    The ENO freewheel is good. I like mine and it has withstood a New England winter, spring and early summer so far. It does skip here & there however... not often but definitley noticeable when it does.
    I bet if you contact WI they'll warranty it. I know several strong riders with ENO freewheels and I've never heard of one failing.
    Hey Butthead, are we gonna die? - Beavis

  12. #12
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    I have a Dos ENO 24pt engage, Hope SS, and a King hub and my experience with all three have been great. King is the quietest by far. The ENO has been through 2 summer seasons and 1 MN winter commuting season. I haven't performed any service on it and it has held up perfectly.

    I'd say you can't go wrong either way.
    I am ridic.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ol' Dirty Biker
    I have a Dos ENO 24pt engage, Hope SS, and a King hub and my experience with all three have been great. King is the quietest by far. The ENO has been through 2 summer seasons and 1 MN winter commuting season. I haven't performed any service on it and it has held up perfectly.

    I'd say you can't go wrong either way.
    Seeee! seeeeeee!

  14. #14
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    I can say after a week and a half of ownership of an ENO...

    It holds up!

    And it's been easy on servicing.

    I'm looking forward to another week and a half of rockin' it!
    Last edited by Mr.P; 06-30-2010 at 08:52 AM.

  15. #15
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    I have the Hopes now. Excellent, no complaints. My last bike had eno fw and cranks. Also top notch. You cant go wrong with either. I personally prefer the mini cassette, but would not hesitate for a second to purchase White Industries products. Very good quality.
    Cheers,
    Drbbt
    Without freedom of choice, there is no creativity. Without creativity, there is no life. The body dies.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by ernesto_from_Wisconsin
    Si

    If they skip, that's because the teeth are probably getting very worn out. They can be replaced.
    did i say i LOVE my freewheel?

    <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/31304119@N05/4747299033/" title="tattoo by coachjon77, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm5.static.flickr.com/4078/4747299033_96bd2f9561_z.jpg" width="640" height="512" alt="tattoo"></a>

    cause i meant it couldnt think of a finer symbol for my enjoyment of singlespeeding/cycling in general.
    Winter is coming.

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    not the stupidest tattoo i've ever seen, but it's pretty close.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.P
    I can say after a week and a half of ownership of an ENO...

    It holds up!

    And it's been easy on servicing.

    I'm looking forward to another week and a half of rockin' it!

    1.5wks of use and needing servicing? lol

  19. #19
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    I am going to go out on a limb and guess that you dont have a tattoo at all (alexrex20) or you are covered in them.

    Either way, his choice and his pleasure. Can't say I would do it but it is pretty good looking none the less.


    Fore Real Mr. P. have you had problems with it or not. Are you saying that it has been easy on servicing because you have not had to touch it or what? I have had mine on for over a month or so now with absolutely no problems.

  20. #20
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    coachjon, pretty cool. Where did you get it done (or by who?) Whoever did it for you you, does a good work at realistic elements.

    I have more of an abstract 'crank-o-fire' on my thigh. I got it years back before adapting to ss'ing. I got it reworked earlier this year.

  21. #21
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    The eno is the most beautiful, absolutely functional piece of bicycle jewelry that completely delivers on all it's promises.
    I have no idea what the 1 guy who mentioned a problem is talking about.
    Take a look at one up close and you will see. Ride one and you will know. If you still don't get it then you are beyond our help and I wish you ye best of luck in your search for something superior. Some people are just destined to seek and never find.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by subliminalshiver
    The eno is the most beautiful, absolutely functional piece of bicycle jewelry that completely delivers on all it's promises.
    I have no idea what the 1 guy who mentioned a problem is talking about.
    Take a look at one up close and you will see. Ride one and you will know. If you still don't get it then you are beyond our help and I wish you ye best of luck in your search for something superior. Some people are just destined to seek and never find.
    23 miles this morning, and not a single hiccup from the ENO freewheel.

    Coasting down the hills, the loudness is enough to loosen old ladies dentures.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by stumonky
    coachjon, pretty cool. Where did you get it done (or by who?) Whoever did it for you you, does a good work at realistic elements.

    I have more of an abstract 'crank-o-fire' on my thigh. I got it years back before adapting to ss'ing. I got it reworked earlier this year.
    http://www.moseisleys.com/

    im really happy with how it came out.
    Winter is coming.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by coachjon
    http://www.moseisleys.com/

    im really happy with how it came out.
    Nice shop! I’m a big fan of the traditional Japanese style too. I like the Suicidal Tendencies reference “Join The Army” on the shop shirts.

    I go to Tattooagogo in New Orleans.

  25. #25
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    @coachjon: Love the tatoo. Now you need a dingle on the other side
    Without freedom of choice, there is no creativity. Without creativity, there is no life. The body dies.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by coachjon
    LOVE my ENO trials freewheel. 6 pawl, 72 pts of engagement. only comes in 18t but worth it.
    In case that scares anyone off, there are how-to's out there on rebuilding a trials freewheel with the "cog" from a regular WI freewheel (or, I suppose, rebuilding a regular WI FW with the guts from a trials FW) so you can give yourself more options as far as tooth count goes.
    Quote Originally Posted by JonathanGennick View Post
    I am a poser. But forums.poser.com doesn't seem to exist, so I come here instead.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1SPD
    Fore Real Mr. P. have you had problems with it or not. Are you saying that it has been easy on servicing because you have not had to touch it or what? I have had mine on for over a month or so now with absolutely no problems.
    That was my not-so clear attempt at humor. The ENO has been great and trouble free through 1 race and 1 ride.

    P

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.P
    I can say after a week and a half of ownership of an ENO...

    It holds up!

    And it's been easy on servicing.

    I'm looking forward to another week and a half of rockin' it!
    Hahaha. I got it. That was good. Thanks for that.

    Hope (no pun intended) the ENO treats you well.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by subliminalshiver
    The eno is the most beautiful, absolutely functional piece of bicycle jewelry that completely delivers on all it's promises.
    I have no idea what the 1 guy who mentioned a problem is talking about.
    Take a look at one up close and you will see. Ride one and you will know. If you still don't get it then you are beyond our help and I wish you ye best of luck in your search for something superior. Some people are just destined to seek and never find.
    Here's a close up look at mine. And FWIW, I have seen this on two other WI FWs
    I had a $16 ACS claw on the same hub and it didn't do this.
    <object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/IgUaLgl20yA&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/IgUaLgl20yA&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

    so yeah, they're nice. But I think the quality is overstated and price is quite high.
    “I don't like jail, they got the wrong kind of bars in there”

  30. #30
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    Dude, that is just the bio pace version! That was a joke by the way. You know I am going to flip my bike upside down tonight to see if that happens with mine. If it is happening with mine, I can't say that I can feel it when I am riding at all. I would also say that mine is rather new as well.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1SPD
    Dude, that is just the bio pace version! That was a joke by the way. You know I am going to flip my bike upside down tonight to see if that happens with mine. If it is happening with mine, I can't say that I can feel it when I am riding at all. I would also say that mine is rather new as well.
    I can't feel it while riding either. My point is that there seems to be a prevailing opinion that WI FW's are the "ne plus ultra" kit. My video demonstrates that their quality control is not really all that great. Every time I see one on someone's bike I always ask if they'd mind if I flipped it upside down to check theirs. Every one I've tried so far has done it.

    I characterize it as the "high dollar goggles" syndrom. Because these are the most expensive FW's out there, people automatically think that they are top notch quality without really taking that closer look. for some folks it's hard to admit they spent $80 on an out-of-round freewheel. Highest price doesn't always mean highest quality. The inverse is also true.

    Also like to mention I've never tried it on the trials version, but suspect they would be the same as well. I think it's the FW body and not the internal bearing portion so it shouldn't make a difference.
    “I don't like jail, they got the wrong kind of bars in there”

  32. #32
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    I'm pretty impressed with my WI freewheel. I've gone through a couple of chains and chainrings, but the freewheel teeth still look pretty good. I have also ridden in rain and mud and never done any maintenance to it and it works fine 4 years after I bought it. Not bad. However, if I were building new wheels, I'd go with the Hope hubs because I do like the cassette style better and have had no problems with my geared Hope hubs on my other bikes.

  33. #33
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    Oh, I have seen plenty of cases where the more expensive product was not as superior as one would think for the price. In my case, I bought the WI because my local shop sells WI and built my wheels for me. I got a good deal on the complete wheel set which included the FW. In the end I am very happy with my set up though I am sure I could have run something less expensive and simply replaced it when the time came. Maybe even replaced it 3-4 times actually. None the less, I have it and it works. Sounds nice too!

    I agree, I would probably build up a set of wheels with Hope's as well w/ a HomeBrewed ti cog on it! Oh, how sweet the sound!
    Last edited by 1SPD; 06-30-2010 at 06:10 PM.

  34. #34
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    I have (2) ENO 16T FWs (non-trial) and neither of mine does that.

  35. #35
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    finger, please justify your statement "that tells me it is out of around".

    looks like oscillation due to resonance, but i'm not a student of physics. there are alot of moving parts in your video. i suspect the valve stem.

    what does this have to do with the quality of the component, or its performance or duration on a bike?

    i have one WI freewheel (abot 4 yrs old), and it's far outlasted the various ACS and shimanos i used previously without any of their predictable thunking. based on my experience, i'd get another if this one would ever wear out.

  36. #36
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    how would harmonic resonance affect chain tension?

  37. #37
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    the necessary play in the freewheel.

    BTW, there's nothing new about our chainrings (and the way we mount them), cogs, and freewheels being out of round.

  38. #38
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    Wow, ya'll. Is there a bike mechanic, machinist or at least an engineer here?

    It's a combination of the freewheel and the hub. When you cut threads into anything the tool will wear and the cut will be different on the first machined piece than the 100th. Also every time the two threaded parts are installed, the threads deform slightly. This is why bolts and things have torque specs (all of you are using your torque wrenches right?). Both the hub and the freewheel are subject to this and it is why the chain is bouncing up and down.

    Freewheels are an inferior design to a freehub in terms of consistancy and anything with prawls is more likely to suffer similar issues with engagement than a ring drive (DT, King). This is not to say that freehubs don't suffer from inconsistancies in machining, but they are less likely by way of design to experience this kind of thing.

    Bottom line though is that if it doesn't catch fire and explode then you can still ride it.
    BBI certified, 12+ years as mechanic

  39. #39
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    oh are you a bike mechanic? i did not know that!!!

























  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexrex20
    how would harmonic resonance affect chain tension?
    If Mariah Carey sang to a freewheel, would it make it perfect?

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by ernesto_from_Wisconsin
    If Mariah Carey sang to a freewheel, would it make it perfect?
    Maybe if Harley Flanagan sang instead...

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by ernesto_from_Wisconsin
    If Mariah Carey sang to a freewheel, would it make it perfect?
    only if she were naked and _______ _________ ____ _______ me.

  43. #43
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    Crosstown Stew
    In your original post you stated that you needed bearings. Is that in the hub or freewheel. If its in the hub a new freewheel won't fix it no matter how much it cost or the quality. Paul sells replacement bearings for their hubs and any decant bike shop can replace them.

    djriddle
    You sir are absolutely correct. For the record I am a master tool and die maker and have been fabricating parts since 1984. There are different class fits on screw threads. You do need some space between the threads for them to work. If they are to tight they gall up no matter how much anti seize you use.

    For freewheels I've had good luck with Orgin8. Not sure who's been making them for Orgin8 but mines got a real muddy winter and spring on it plus at least one full submersion in the brown swamp of the Spillway.and on purpose I've not been cleaning it to see how long it will last.(so far 8 months) Like any thing else a freewheel does require maintenance. On the Shimano and ACS freewheels I've used in the past I take them off the bike and soak them in Simple Green for about an hour then hose them down with WD-40 and them soak them in a tub of 40wt motor oil over night.

    Tim

  44. #44
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    Well after watching this video yesterday I tried it for myself when I got home. There was a tiny bit of movement in the chain, but not as severe as it appears in the video. I tried it with the ACS on my commuter and it was a lot worse. In addition to the chain movement, the whole sprocket wobbled back an forth. I'm not sure what a machinist would call it (yaw?), but in math I would say that the plane of the teeth does not stay perpendicular to the ground.

    Personally, I fail to see how that slight movement effects my ride. My endorsement of WI freewheels is based on having spent the last 4 winters in western Oregon riding a SS MTB and commuter all year long. I have killed 3 ACS freewheels, 1 on the MTB and 2 on the commuter. I have ridden the WI for three years with zero maintenance and it still functions exactly the same. I do have an ACS on the commuter that has made it through two winters, but I've taken to liberally applying tri-flow. Maybe I'll try TimT's method next time. I've never had my ENO skip, and I've never heard any of the guys who have them locally talk about them skipping.
    Hey Butthead, are we gonna die? - Beavis

  45. #45
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    I'm no machinist, but I can calibrate a multibeam swath sonar.

    Simplistic pitch, roll, and yaw:
    Pitch is up and down, yaw is left and right, and roll is rotation.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by finger51
    Here's a close up look at mine. And FWIW, I have seen this on two other WI FWs
    I had a $16 ACS claw on the same hub and it didn't do this.
    <object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/IgUaLgl20yA&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/IgUaLgl20yA&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

    so yeah, they're nice. But I think the quality is overstated and price is quite high.
    hey my wi trials fw does this also but my wi 20t fw does not

    does this mean the bearings are bad??

    still the best fw available though

  47. #47
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    Well, I did not check to see if it bounced up and down but when getting some things straight on my bike this evening and adjusting the chain tension, I thought I had it all straight and then and a good tension. Then I spun the cranks and it was tighter after about half a revolution. Keep spinning it and it goes back to the way I had it set. I double checked the chain, have no stiff links what so ever.

    Now, I can't feel it when I ride but I would say that it is yet another example as to how it may be slightly out of round. Basically, when the portion of the FW that out of round is pointed to the rear of the bike the chain becomes fully stretched.

    Oh well, so be it at this point. If I can't feel it while I am riding then I am not going to stress and keep riding.

  48. #48
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    hey at least yalls freehub isn't binding so much that while coasting, my cranks spin forward if i take my feet off them!

    [still patiently waiting for new hub to arrive tomorrow]

  49. #49
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    As has been mentioned, the slightly tension change with some WI freewheels is most likely due to the interface between FW and hub, and not the FW being out of round. That said, the WI FW is far and away the best freewheel available, and they last forever. They're worth every penny.

    Red Warrior - My guess is it's not the FW skipping, but some other issue like insufficient tension or worn chain and ring.

    1SPD - It's probably in your chain ring and crank, not your FW.

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