Where's Shimano?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
    Out spokin'
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    Where's Shimano?

    Eight or ten years ago I didn't ride singlespeeds. I remember hearing about people who tried to build their bikes up without a single Shimano component and how hard it was to build a decent bike while eschewing the Big S. "S-specially" the drivetrain. Pre-Sram.

    Not only was it hard to do, it was expensive. Example: remember the Paul Components rear deraillleur?

    For some reason I woke up this morning thinking about this subject and suddenly realized my Vulture doesn't have a single (no pun intended) Shimano component on board.

    Why doesn't Shimano jump into the singlespeed-specific component game? Well, I guess we've got Shimano freewheels, but not much else. Anyway, White Industries has ENO, and other companies make SS-specific hubs. We're a growing lot. (Personally, I rather Shimano didn't do it, just because I don't want SSing to become mainstream. Wassupwiddat?)

    Anyway, here's my (26") bike build:
    Vulture: frame
    Marzocchi: fork
    Thomson: stem, seatpost
    Chris King: hubs, headset, cog
    Avid: brakes
    Caramba: cranks
    Bontrager: wheel QRs
    DKG: seat QR
    WTB: saddle
    ProTaper: handlebar
    ODI: grips
    Sun: rims
    DT: spokes
    Crank Bros: pedals
    Surly: chainring
    Kenda, Nokian: tires

    It kinda blows me away that I built a bike without any Shimano products in the mix and never even realized it until today. Although I have nothing against Shimano, other than their desire world domination, I guess it might be a good thing that singlespeeding is off their radar.

    --Sparty
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    We don't quit riding because we get old.
    We get old because we quit riding.

  2. #2
    Nouveau Retrogrouch SuperModerator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus
    Eight or ten years ago I didn't ride singlespeeds. I remember hearing about people who tried to build their bikes up without a single Shimano component and how hard it was to build a decent bike while eschewing the Big S. "S-specially" the drivetrain. Pre-Sram.

    Not only was it hard to do, it was expensive. Example: remember the Paul Components rear deraillleur?

    For some reason I woke up this morning thinking about this subject and suddenly realized my Vulture doesn't have a single (no pun intended) Shimano component on board.

    Why doesn't Shimano jump into the singlespeed-specific component game? Well, I guess we've got Shimano freewheels, but not much else. Anyway, White Industries has ENO, and other companies make SS-specific hubs. We're a growing lot. (Personally, I rather Shimano didn't do it, just because I don't want SSing to become mainstream. Wassupwiddat?)

    Anyway, here's my (26") bike build:
    Vulture: frame
    Marzocchi: fork
    Thomson: stem, seatpost
    Chris King: hubs, headset, cog
    Avid: brakes
    Caramba: cranks
    Bontrager: wheel QRs
    DKG: seat QR
    WTB: saddle
    ProTaper: handlebar
    ODI: grips
    Sun: rims
    DT: spokes
    Crank Bros: pedals
    Surly: chainring
    Kenda, Nokian: tires

    It kinda blows me away that I built a bike without any Shimano products in the mix and never even realized it until today. Although I have nothing against Shimano, other than their desire world domination, I guess it might be a good thing that singlespeeding is off their radar.

    --Sparty
    What about your chain, Davey?

    The only thing Shimano on my singlespeeds are the QR skewers on one of them. My Monocog 29er is S-free (stock front QR, bolt on rear) as is my Humuhumunukunukuapua'a (bolt on hubs).

    Shimano does have a new BMX group for '07. The crank is an easy crossover for SS. The hub is BMX spacing.
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  3. #3
    All 26.5" all the time!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus

    Why doesn't Shimano jump into the singlespeed-specific component game?
    Because they're too busy buttering up the market for ten speed cassettes and 140mm rear spacing. Didn't you know? It's no longer possable to have fun on a bike in the woods with only 27 speeds.

    For the record, my bike is equipped with a Deore XT front hub and PD-M747 pedals.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy
    What about your chain, Davey? ...
    My chain is a Sram PC-58. Shimano's miserable "you-must-carry-an-extra-pin" chain is possibly the worst product the company offers, IMO.

    --Sparty
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  5. #5
    from the east
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    Mm-hmm.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus
    Eight or ten years ago I didn't ride singlespeeds. I remember hearing about people who tried to build their bikes up without a single Shimano component and how hard it was to build a decent bike while eschewing the Big S. "S-specially" the drivetrain. Pre-Sram.

    Not only was it hard to do, it was expensive. Example: remember the Paul Components rear deraillleur?


    --Sparty
    I remember those days. I think it was Mountain Bike magazine that had an all-USA "project bike" in one issue one time. Very colorful and fragile-looking bike that was.

    But if you wanna talk Paul derailleurs, remember where White Industries was before ENO??

    http://www.epinions.com/bike-Rear_De...r_System__LMDS

    Oh yeah.

    eric.
    What power?!?

    The power of Voodoo!!!

  6. #6
    those are Rollercams...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus
    Eight or ten years ago I didn't ride singlespeeds. I remember hearing about people who tried to build their bikes up without a single Shimano component and how hard it was to build a decent bike while eschewing the Big S. "S-specially" the drivetrain. Pre-Sram.

    Not only was it hard to do, it was expensive. Example: remember the Paul Components rear deraillleur?

    For some reason I woke up this morning thinking about this subject and suddenly realized my Vulture doesn't have a single (no pun intended) Shimano component on board.

    Why doesn't Shimano jump into the singlespeed-specific component game? Well, I guess we've got Shimano freewheels, but not much else. Anyway, White Industries has ENO, and other companies make SS-specific hubs. We're a growing lot. (Personally, I rather Shimano didn't do it, just because I don't want SSing to become mainstream. Wassupwiddat?)

    Anyway, here's my (26") bike build:
    Vulture: frame
    Marzocchi: fork
    Thomson: stem, seatpost
    Chris King: hubs, headset, cog
    Avid: brakes
    Caramba: cranks
    Bontrager: wheel QRs
    DKG: seat QR
    WTB: saddle
    ProTaper: handlebar
    ODI: grips
    Sun: rims
    DT: spokes
    Crank Bros: pedals
    Surly: chainring
    Kenda, Nokian: tires

    It kinda blows me away that I built a bike without any Shimano products in the mix and never even realized it until today. Although I have nothing against Shimano, other than their desire world domination, I guess it might be a good thing that singlespeeding is off their radar.

    --Sparty
    What bottom bracket are you using? I love reading bike specs

    Truly a wealth of useless information.


    http://blackdogadventureteam.blogspot.com/

  7. #7
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    brake cables ??

    or liquid filled hoses.

  8. #8
    Nouveau Retrogrouch SuperModerator
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy
    What about your chain, Davey?

    The only thing Shimano on my singlespeeds are the QR skewers on one of them. My Monocog 29er is S-free (stock front QR, bolt on rear) as is my Humuhumunukunukuapua'a (bolt on hubs).
    oops...the Humuhumunukunukuapua'a has Shimano cranks, but they are at least 17 years old and have seen service on 3-4 other bikes.
    mtbtires.com
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  9. #9
    Out spokin'
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    Busted!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by WTB-rider
    What bottom bracket are you using? I love reading bike specs
    Dude, you got me. Shimano UN-72. Cheap and reliable, just like a good girlfriend.

    Dang. Honestly, I forgot about that. But I ain't gonna go out and buy a more expensive, less dependable BB just for the sake of makin' 'er 100% non-Shimano.

    Thanks for puttin' me feet back on the ground. [Japanese soil, tho...]

    --Sparty

    P.S. Yo, noslogan... brakes are Avid Juicy 5s, fluid filled hoses.
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    We don't quit riding because we get old.
    We get old because we quit riding.

  10. #10
    mudnthebloodnthebeer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus

    For some reason I woke up this morning thinking about this subject and suddenly realized my Vulture doesn't have a single (no pun intended) Shimano component on board.


    --Sparty

    My Vulture is a Shimano-free zone as well. That fact definitelty contributes to its high coefficient of coolness.

  11. #11
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    shimano free on 1 SS

    Last thing to go was the shimano freewheel, replaced by white industries. I'm not really anti-shimano, it just sort of worked out that way.

    my commuter-road SS (actually 2x2) is going in the other direction...was shimano free, now has shimano front and rear hubs (w/ surley cogs) and skewers.

    my geared road bike is loaded with shimano components (ultegra).

  12. #12
    friend of preston
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    shimano?

    shimano freewheels are shart there are no seals on them so in the PNW they last about a week before they need rebuild and then they are full of 1000 puny little bearings that seem to be made out of cheese, CRAP! they seem to have a philosophy that any time they make something that is excellent, totally functional and bombproof (BR755, M756)they stop making it immediately and crap out someting "better". rapid rise and flipper shifters have been the crown to the reasons i hate shitmano and thier integration B.S... some thing are still good from them however, un51, 6 bolt brakes and rapidfire but i dont want to be compelled to use all shim. they probably dont even know that people are butchering thier products to run single. when they do get on the wagon it will be 2 yrs too late and some crap modified xtr chain tensioner that works about as well as a cheap knockoff.
    ok im done..
    He who makes a beast of himself, gets rid of the pain of being a man.- Dr. Samuel Johnson

  13. #13
    34N 118W
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus
    Why doesn't Shimano jump into the singlespeed-specific component game?
    Not sure, but people like me still find ways to use their stuff in SS applications. My Curtlo has an XTR M960 crankset with the odd 102 BCD. So I got a ti Boone ring for it and use the now-classic Jericho bash ring. I also use XTR calipers and XT levers (to avoid pod shifter syndrome).

    It's all been solid, with no creaks, cracks or snaps. However on the new Niner, the only Big S components are the UN-73 square bb and some old XT skewers.

    If they came out with a lightweight SS-specific crankset with a variety of chainrings available, I can't say I wouldn't give it some serious thought...

    When I hear my fancy new Avids squealing I can't help but think how nice the XTRs have been.

    HW (a Shimano subsidiary)

  14. #14
    Look at the time!
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    Shimano Alfine Group, CT-S500

    made for their internal gearing hubs. What else "singlespeed specific" could they make? A rear hub with a bolt on axle and a shorter cassette body, that's about it.

    Oh, maybe a crankset... well there is the "saint", i'll admit that is a bit on the heavy side.


    Then again, all you need to run a shimano crankset on a singlespeed is a bashring, or shorter chainring bolts.
    Last edited by lelebebbel; 06-19-2006 at 03:00 AM.
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  15. #15
    Where's Toto?
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    Not that I care, but my SS Sir9 is S-free except for the BB and the geared Dean only has a Shimano front derailleur (Wipperman chains on both). I may pick up a Phil BB, but my UN-73 is cheap to keep and there's not a thing wrong with it. I tried a SRAM front-D on Deano, but the clearance with the tire was a no go. FWIW - my road bike is 10-spd DA and my cross bikes are all big S. Give Shimano their dues, a lot of the advances we enjoy are due in part to their involvement in the sport. BTW - you think it's bad now? There was a time when it seemed like they were changing stuff every year. Dura Ace AX? Plastic crap, 5 speed, 6 speed, 7 speed, 8 speed. At least we held at 9 for a few years. I could go for a gradual shift to a 135mm standard (mtn and road hubs would be the same spacing), but 140mm?

    No wonder SS is mainstream.

  16. #16
    Singlespeeder Downunder
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    Not Shimano, but...

    Although you avoid Shimano for their desire to take over the world, you have Avid (SRAM empire) and Bonty (Trek empire) on your bike.

    SRAM is just as much about taking over the world as Shimano is. They've even bought out companies that make parts Shimano don't bother with (suspension, posts, bars).

    Jonathan

  17. #17
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    Ford vs. GM

    My SS does have some XT stuff, cranks, BB, and hubs (depending on the wheelset she is dressed up with). I have never had an issue with S-mano stuff. The only oddities from S-mano I have had on bikes are a U-brake (worked OK, and was good if you liked to collect soil as a hobby), and the biopace stuff (one of those, "seemed like a good idea at the time"). My last gearie I built, I spec'd all S-mano stuff except brakes, brake levers, and hubs. I will never get a S-mano chain after using a SRAM with a quick link (man those are sweet). Anyways, I work under the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality.
    Tuff Schist

  18. #18
    Duckin' Fonuts.
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    SS is easy to make Shimano free. Here is the rundown on my Steelman....

    Surly hubs front and rear. DT spokes and Salsa Delgado X rims.
    ACS or White Ind. freewheel.
    KMC Chain
    FSA Chaninring
    RaceFace Turbine square taper cranks and 107mm Race face BB. 7 years old and rebuildable.
    Paul Cantis, Cane creek levers, QBP cables and housing Kool Stop Salmon pads.
    King headset.
    Salsa bars, Steelman stem.
    Salsa post.

    I think I am pretty much going to ride SS for life after riding SS 95% of the time for the last 8 years. I am down to one rig at the moment and want a KM to beat mercilessly. Parts will be very similar. Maybe an HKS bb since Race Face Taperlocks are extinct. I have one more NOS Turbine. No 27 speed bikes for me thanks. Maybe a 4 speed on Hope SS hubs one day...

  19. #19
    Retro Grouch
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    Phooey !

    Again I say phooey, Nuevo Single Speed was built on the back of Shimano BMX parts. Cheap cranks, cheap freewheels, cogs, bottom brackets and chainrings. The Shimano BMX freehub is the model on which all other SS freehubs are designed. Sure youíve got all the cottage industries like, Paul, White Industries, Spot and Surly.; but without the Shimano freewheel they would have not existed (okay maybe thatís a stretch ). But anyway to purposely build a bike without Shimano parts is form over function. Not like that's a bad thing but as lelebebbel said,

    Quote Originally Posted by lelebebbel
    What else "singlespeed specific" could they make? A rear hub with a bolt on axle and a shorter cassette body, that's about it.
    .

    and they already make one


    1G1G, Brad
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    Last edited by aka brad; 06-19-2006 at 10:39 AM.

  20. #20
    Out spokin'
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    Not singlespeed...

    Quote Originally Posted by aka brad
    ...

    and they already make one


    1G1G, Brad

    That's not singlespeed, that's BMX... says so right on the box!

    Nyah, nyah, nyah!

    --Sparty
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    We get old because we quit riding.

  21. #21
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    Why would they when people are willing to pay full price for an XTR crank to modify for single speed use? As it is there are plenty of people using Shimano cranks and hubs w/o Shimano needing to spend any money on additional product lines. If a significant market for off the shelf SS bikes develops, Shimano might see a market worth their while to pursue.

  22. #22
    Retro Grouch
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    You didn't get the memo??

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus
    That's not singlespeed, that's BMX... says so right on the box!

    Nyah, nyah, nyah!

    --Sparty

  23. #23
    those are Rollercams...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus
    Dude, you got me. Shimano UN-72. Cheap and reliable, just like a good girlfriend.

    Dang. Honestly, I forgot about that. But I ain't gonna go out and buy a more expensive, less dependable BB just for the sake of makin' 'er 100% non-Shimano.

    Thanks for puttin' me feet back on the ground. [Japanese soil, tho...]

    --Sparty

    P.S. Yo, noslogan... brakes are Avid Juicy 5s, fluid filled hoses.
    Absolutely. About the only square taper BB made today I'd consider over a Shimano is a Phil Wood. Maybe.

    Truly a wealth of useless information.


    http://blackdogadventureteam.blogspot.com/

  24. #24
    Got Mojo?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus
    Why doesn't Shimano jump into the singlespeed-specific component game?
    My thoughts are this:

    Many SSers are loyal to the SS brands, such as White Industries, Paul, Surly, Phil Wood. The small guys who have found their niche. Shimano would be hard pressed to take over this market with this competition.

    And it is a small niche. Not much money there, certainly not much money in replacement parts.



    My ride:

    Spot Brands SS frame w/Vicious Cycles fork
    RF Turbine LP crankset w/Blackspire DH ring and Spot chainguard
    RF Taperloc BB
    SRAM PC-1 chain
    Thompson Stem
    Easton Carbon riser bar and seatpost
    Avid SD brakes and levers
    CK headset
    CK hubs on Bontrager Valiants, DT Swiss 14/15 2X
    Cook Bros. Racing Skewer
    Speedplay Frogs


    My other bikes have very limited amounts of Shimano....
    aLaN AT BikeMojo DOT com

  25. #25
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    Back in the day it was pretty easy to build an all Suntour bike and not nearly as expensive as an all American build.

    What was the "official" name of the no-Shimano philosophy in the 90s?
    Wanted: broken Titec 2 bolt seatpost, any size

  26. #26
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    i was so excited because i thought my surly was shimano-free, but, alas, my SPD pedals are shimano.

    looks like ive gotta switch to crank brothers..

  27. #27
    Just hit it with speed
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    Quote Originally Posted by cougar9000
    i was so excited because i thought my surly was shimano-free, but, alas, my SPD pedals are shimano.

    looks like ive gotta switch to crank brothers..
    I am in the same boat with the acquisition of my new bike. It's a Fisher Rig and the only thing it has(that I know of) is the SPD Pedals. Not that I am that intense about being non Shimano. After all my bike is covered in Bontrager stuff. I honestly have been considering Crank Brothers pedals but after spending what I did I need to chill out my spending for the next couple months.

  28. #28
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    New question here. Rather than start a new thread I figured I'd post this question here!?

    I recently (couple weeks ago) went riding with a friend of mine who happens to have the same bike as I do only the '05 model of the Gary Fisher Rig. While our two bikes were on the trunk rack I looked for differences between the two and came across a very subtle but questionable difference that actually kinda surprised me. My understanding about Fishers were that they were built in the U.S.A in fact I assumed they all were but when looking at the sticker around the BB of the '05 his read "Made in the U.S.A." while mine read "Made in Taiwan". Even though our frames had the same tubing and butting they were made in different countries and it make me wonder.............was mine or his handbuilt? Can I assume or should I hope the same hands that built my bike were as capable as the producer in Taiwan and vice versa?

    Thoughts, Comments, Suggestions.....all are welcomed. I hope I get some bites on this topic even though its not a new thread. (I know how people hate that)

    I'm not a huge "Has to be built in the U.S." like some older citizens and when it comes to outsourcing and such I respect quality regardless of the country. But I do like knowing that wherever it was built it was done by someone who took pride in their work and/or are required to meet extreme levels of QC/QA.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by GFisher2001
    I recently (couple weeks ago) went riding with a friend of mine who happens to have the same bike as I do only the '05 model of the Gary Fisher Rig. While our two bikes were on the trunk rack I looked for differences between the two and came across a very subtle but questionable difference that actually kinda surprised me. My understanding about Fishers were that they were built in the U.S.A in fact I assumed they all were but when looking at the sticker around the BB of the '05 his read "Made in the U.S.A." while mine read "Made in Taiwan". Even though our frames had the same tubing and butting they were made in different countries and it make me wonder.............was mine or his handbuilt? Can I assume or should I hope the same hands that built my bike were as capable as the producer in Taiwan and vice versa?

    Thoughts, Comments, Suggestions.....all are welcomed. I hope I get some bites on this topic even though its not a new thread. (I know how people hate that)

    I'm not a huge "Has to be built in the U.S." like some older citizens and when it comes to outsourcing and such I respect quality regardless of the country. But I do like knowing that wherever it was built it was done by someone who took pride in their work and/or are required to meet extreme levels of QC/QA.
    Just a thought but I bet they were built with the same care. I mean you gotta figure American made cars are not always built with the same care as Jap cars (my opinion, not fact) so maybe lower budget frames being welded over seas is not sooo bad (maybe they take pride over there in the build). I mean if I guy here welds low-budget frames for a living are you sure he cares or is he just a guy doing crappy welds in a welding line waiting to get off so he can go weld on his backyard four wheeled junker getting ready for the next dirt oval track race? It's not like it is a top of the line carbon (ti...whatever) frame or anything and I think that is about the only thing big companies do take pride in, how well they build their top models. At Trek 4500 won't have a "Built in America" sticker on it, however go buy the top carbon frame...the sticker even names the state on that model. The lower-end frames are usually made with much less care IMHO...I mean if you buy a Benz say C230 do you think they take anywhere near the pride they do in building a SL500 or something? The rig is such an amazing bike. But the fact is it is a very cheap amazing bike. They would rather sell the fat possum for 5 times the price once because it is less work than selling five rigs per one fat possum. So I guess I say that maybe the over seas thing (which some companies have done for years) may not be as bad as it sounds. I mean what if you can pay the over seas welder much less per hour but to him it is much more than he has ever made elsewhere and he IS proud of his work and he IS also an avid cyclist? I wouldn't worry. And if you truly are worried just ride the crap out of your rig and then strip the parts off and then go place a custom order. That way you can start with something like a Steel Walt Works (or GroundUp) for around $800 (I think) or go with something like a Ti Black Sheep pushing upwards of $2400 for a race frame...with these type of builders there is one thing you can bank on...these custom builers do take GREAT PRIDE in their work and the bikes are worth every penny!!...Wait...two things to bank on; 2) THEY ARE MADE (WITH PRIDE) IN AMERICA!! Good Luck either way!!
    Oh, this was a shimano thread; I have an XT skewer...D@MN!!
    Black Sheep...where it'ss at!!
    "I'm not known for my patience. Patience is a polite quality and often appropriate, but it rarely gets things done. Impatience, however, is the hunger for results and intolerance for excuses and delays." LA

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