What to do, Fixed/SS or Hub gears for 130 OLN rear?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
    Badger has a new bicycle
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    New question here. What to do, Fixed/SS or Hub gears for 130 OLN rear?

    Ok picked up a second hand Dawes edge one frame (alloy with horizontal track ends) and find it is 130 OLN rather than 135 so the DMR hub I was going to use wont fit.

    So need a new wheel but what options are there in the way of hubs?

    It's supposed to be a low key (unappealing to toerags), slick/skinny mtb tyred commuter with mud guards, rigid forks and I had planned on using the set of Magura HS33 rim brakes sitting in my parts box. So don't want anything too pimp or overbuilt.

    Will be used on occasional off road forays so could do with decent seals as it gets pretty wet and muddy round here.

    Something like 36:16 or 38:16 would probably suit the terrain I will use it on if it were SS but I haven't tried fixed and not sure if there are any cheap hub gears around that would suit when built onto a 26" rim.

    Any suggestions?

  2. #2
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    can't you respace the hub?

    I'm not familiar with dmr hubs, but I know you can respace shimano hubs down to 130, or at least fairly close. Any chance with these?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tasso
    Ok picked up a second hand Dawes edge one frame (alloy with horizontal track ends) and find it is 130 OLN rather than 135 so the DMR hub I was going to use wont fit.

    So need a new wheel but what options are there in the way of hubs?

    It's supposed to be a low key (unappealing to toerags), slick/skinny mtb tyred commuter with mud guards, rigid forks and I had planned on using the set of Magura HS33 rim brakes sitting in my parts box. So don't want anything too pimp or overbuilt.

    Will be used on occasional off road forays so could do with decent seals as it gets pretty wet and muddy round here.

    Something like 36:16 or 38:16 would probably suit the terrain I will use it on if it were SS but I haven't tried fixed and not sure if there are any cheap hub gears around that would suit when built onto a 26" rim.

    Any suggestions?

  3. #3
    Badger has a new bicycle
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    Quote Originally Posted by butocabra
    I'm not familiar with dmr hubs, but I know you can respace shimano hubs down to 130, or at least fairly close. Any chance with these?

    Maybe, but it would require butchering the nice alloy bearing caps which I would really rather not do as the wheels are currently on another bike that I was go to substitute a spare wheel with Hope cassette hub onto. On balance I would rather just build a new wheel.

    Thanks for the suggestion though.

  4. #4
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    2 options that I can think of...

    First, check out the Van Dessel hubs at http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/singlespeed.html#van. Scroll down to the VanDessels...$80 for the pair and the description says that they are in stock in 130mm spacing. Fixed/free flip-flop.

    Option #2: Get a Surly Fixxer installed on a Shimano road hub. That would allow you to thread on a free wheel or a track cog and a lock ring, although not both at the same time in flip-flop fashion.

  5. #5
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    Should be 135mm.......

    Quote Originally Posted by Tasso
    Maybe, but it would require butchering the nice alloy bearing caps which I would really rather not do as the wheels are currently on another bike that I was go to substitute a spare wheel with Hope cassette hub onto. On balance I would rather just build a new wheel.

    Thanks for the suggestion though.
    Knowing a bit about those bikes I know the rear hub fitted on complete ones is from the same factory as the DMR (almost identical!) and is 135mm. AFAIK there have been no changes to the spec since the 1st generation ones

    Sounds like the frame may have been "squished" in transit. Might be worth trying to streach it back out gently

    Surly rear hubs can be converted in to 130mm by taking out the thin washers between the locknut / cones.

    Good lucK!

    Alex
    Last edited by Singlespeedpunk; 02-24-2004 at 02:25 AM.
    "Put any one on one of these singlespeed bikes and they could not help but have fun"
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  6. #6
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    I too have a DMR hub running in a stretched frame, but my frame is steel, so the stress involved shouldn't cause any problems. I'd be tempted to try and buy a pair of replacement end caps and machine one pair down. An alternative would be to buy a pair of Hope end caps, Hope should be able to tell you if they will fit onto a 10mm axle and you could then grind the axle and end cap down to the correct length.

    e-mail me if you want to discuss this more.
    I am currently machining new end caps for my DMR hubs so I can run the hub eccentric. Making rough as hell looking new end caps is no great shakes.

  7. #7
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    This is all a bit spookily relevant to me at the moment ;-)

    My wife's singulated GT is 130oln and I've been trying to sort out a (cheap) solution to some new wheels for a while. It's an alu frame and I'm not too keen on trying to bend it (back?) to shape (I don't know anything about whether it was originally 130 or if that's something historical that's hapened to it) - or use it flexed if that can be avoided. At the moment it's got a respaced old (really old!) LX hub with cassette spacers. But the hub has virtually no sealing and the rims really shouldn't be in use anymore - ancient, and much dinted, m231s!

    I had a donated set of On-One hubs (monoliths?) which I was going to try and cut down but they're just too big (bearing covers and bolts) and won't get past the singulator. I was getting new wheels for my bike so I was going to use my old wheels for it (which have a DMR rear)... ironically I'm getting a Surly hub which I read above will respace easily ... bah!

    So any ideas/solutions to respacing the DMR would be very welcome. I looked at the bearings caps and certainly wasn't too sure of my ability to reduce them without seriously cocking it up. ;-)

    Quote Originally Posted by AlexB
    I too have a DMR hub running in a stretched frame, but my frame is steel, so the stress involved shouldn't cause any problems. I'd be tempted to try and buy a pair of replacement end caps and machine one pair down. An alternative would be to buy a pair of Hope end caps, Hope should be able to tell you if they will fit onto a 10mm axle and you could then grind the axle and end cap down to the correct length.

    e-mail me if you want to discuss this more.
    I am currently machining new end caps for my DMR hubs so I can run the hub eccentric. Making rough as hell looking new end caps is no great shakes.

  8. #8
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    OK, so that's two of you now.
    This is what I've found out, by judiciously fiddling with my DMR hub.

    The axle is 10mm OD tapped and threaded for an M5 bolt, essentially a cantilever/V-brake bolt will do the job.

    The end caps are machined aluminium with a nicely knurled brass or chromed steel grippy part pressed onto the end. They flare out to about 1" diameter to cover the bearings. If you slide off the end caps, you'll find that have have a nice recess machined into them to take an O-ring to help prevent water seeping along the axle and into the centre space between the bearings.

    I've not pulled an axle out, but I bet it is just flared at the centre to locate the bearings. This is the most common technique.

    Personally I run my bike with a tensioner and I want to get rid of it. I'm taking an evening class at the moment and I'm making up an eccentric axle end cap so that I can tension the hub in the same way that an ENO hub is tensioned.

    This involves taking a length of 1" bar stock, drilling a 10mm hole down the centre of it, drilling a second hole about 7mm out from the first and tapping it for an M5 bolt.

    I'll do something about making the end of the axle a bit rough and then I'll oil-bath it to slow down the rate at which it rusts. It'll be heavy, but it should work and then I can make up a nice alloy one.

    The only thing I need to figure out is how wide to make each spacer. I figured I'd make them about 2mm narrower than the existing spacers so that the frame grips them nice and tight.

    If I make these up and they work I'll let you know, if you e-mail me.

    As for reducing a standard end-cap. I plan to buy a pair of spares from DMR and then simply put them onto the lathe and machine off 2mm from each. Alternatively I'll use a pair of Hope end caps, I haven't got around to trying to source either of these yet, but it's not rocket science!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexB
    The end caps are machined aluminium with a nicely knurled brass or chromed steel grippy part pressed onto the end. They flare out to about 1" diameter to cover the bearings. If you slide off the end caps, you'll find that have have a nice recess machined into them to take an O-ring to help prevent water seeping along the axle and into the centre space between the bearings.
    Yeah - I'd got that far and decided that I was about to make a right mess of my endcaps if I wasn't too careful ;-)

    I think I'll chase the hope end cap ideas (good tip - ta!) and see where that gets me, leaving any excessive butchering for a last resort.

  10. #10
    Badger has a new bicycle
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    Thanx all. I have some time to play around with the frameset tonight so will post back with any success I have or otherwise.

    SSP I had seen the spec said the original wheels were DMR type and I tried putting my existing DMR based wheel in there but no joy. Getting out a vernier it does seem to be 130. I guess it could have been squished but looks straight.

    Like the Van dessel idea to try the fixed thing but option to freewheel. May do that if I can't get hold of spare DMR endcaps. I guess the end of the axle would need to be filed down a touch too so it doesn't protrude past the track ends.

  11. #11
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    Made a bit more progress on the end caps last night. I have enough pre-drilled stock to make up 2 sets. I have no idea how long it will take me or if it will work, but if you want to play guinea pig, then e-mail me and we'll work something out. I'll make up a quick sketch to let you know what I plan to do.

    I'm thinking along the lines of a simple circular steel end cap, with a couple of raised rings to help clamp the hub into the drop-outs. I'm not sure how I'll get both end-caps perfectly aligned on the axle yet, I'll probably use a set-screw binding on the axle. I'd like to know how the ENO manages it, but since I'm essentially pinching their design perhaps I should work it out for myself!

  12. #12
    Badger has a new bicycle
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    Good job! It's really 135 OLN (or was once)

    I took the frame into my local shop and they checked the alignment. It just happens that they do a lot of Sawes Edge One bikes and supply many of them fitted with Rohloff speed hubs so they know the bikes very well

    Although it looked straight it turns out that the track end is bent. No doubt caused by the clamp on disc adapter that had been bodged to fit.

    So thanks AlexB but the solution wont be effected with as much finess as custom turned endcaps but with the liberal application of brute force and a bench vice.

    Still I guess I'm lucky it is only the track end and not the stays or frame.

    The shop also had a wheel they built from one of their Rohloff conversions using a mavic rim and stainless spokes on an original (Quando) hub which they did for a reasonable price. So wheel problem solved and a big thanks to the shop.


    Quote Originally Posted by AlexB
    Made a bit more progress on the end caps last night. I have enough pre-drilled stock to make up 2 sets. I have no idea how long it will take me or if it will work, but if you want to play guinea pig, then e-mail me and we'll work something out. I'll make up a quick sketch to let you know what I plan to do.

    I'm thinking along the lines of a simple circular steel end cap, with a couple of raised rings to help clamp the hub into the drop-outs. I'm not sure how I'll get both end-caps perfectly aligned on the axle yet, I'll probably use a set-screw binding on the axle. I'd like to know how the ENO manages it, but since I'm essentially pinching their design perhaps I should work it out for myself!

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