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  1. #1
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    URT? SS Pros and Cons

    I have seen a few URT SS bikes posted here and there but nothing "new", I see Johnny "C" introduced a bike in 2008 that used this concept. Compared to the other URT frames out there his looks clean and inviting. John went on and on about what a dynomite SS it made and since I already own another of his designs that WAS all it was cooked up to be I am inturigued. Pro and Cons SS riders?
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  2. #2
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    What are you looking for? The pros and cons of riding a URT or his design specifically?

  3. #3
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    pros and con of any URT for SSing. I don't figure anyone actually owns one of costellanos zorros, maybe I am wrong?
    what don't kill ya, make ya more strong.

  4. #4
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    I own a 1gen Schwinn Sweetspot SS. The big plus is that I don't need to use a sprung tensioner, which means I never have to worry about chain tension or chain slap. Additionally, i like that the Sweetspot gets 4 times stiffer when I'm standing, since I'm standing and mashing a lot.

  5. #5
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    URTs always seemed incredibly dumb to me. Especially for single speeds. The only reason I would want rear suspension is for descending rocky terrain at high speed. The problem with URT is that when you stand up, your weight is supported by the sprung part of the bike so you are not isolated from the terrain like you are when riding a normal suspension bike. I think I'd prefer the BB pivot design of the Lenz Milk Money or Kona Bass.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thor29
    URTs always seemed incredibly dumb to me. Especially for single speeds. The only reason I would want rear suspension is for descending rocky terrain at high speed. The problem with URT is that when you stand up, your weight is supported by the sprung part of the bike so you are not isolated from the terrain like you are when riding a normal suspension bike. I think I'd prefer the BB pivot design of the Lenz Milk Money or Kona Bass.
    I thought it was a Kona A.

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  7. #7
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    While it helps some while descending, it's not a lot. But then again, my Sweetspot only has 3.75" of travel in the rear. However, it's nice to ride on rougher or rockier terrain, since it does make everything more comfortable.

  8. #8
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    Exactly what I wanted to know, thanks.
    what don't kill ya, make ya more strong.

  9. #9
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    Riding a Ibis BowTi ss ,works great . URT'S have a bad rap mostly by people that haven't riden them. I also ride ride a vpp bike and it does work somewhat better on downhills.The rider makes more of a difference in my opinion.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by rangeriderdave
    Riding a Ibis BowTi ss ,works great . URT'S have a bad rap mostly by people that haven't riden them. I also ride ride a vpp bike and it does work somewhat better on downhills.The rider makes more of a difference in my opinion.
    I've never ridden a URT but personally I think it looks like it would strike a good balance between HT & FS for SS-ing. Better than a hardtail but not as plush (or as likely to bob) as today's more traditional FS designs.

    That Castellano Zorro looks awesome to me.

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  11. #11
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    I feel like it is the best strike between the two. We are up most of the time mashing away but when a big hit is coming or I get a chance to rest a minute, a little monkey motion couldn't hurt. From owning and riding one of Johns creations for several years I feel good about a design he is crazy for. In reality I don't know if one can be had, I will see.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus
    I thought it was a Kona A.

    --sParty
    I don't know what the differences are, but the Kona A hasn't been around for years.
    Here's the Bass:
    http://www.konaworld.com/bike.cfm?content=bass

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    a was the xc version, the bass or cowan ds is the same rear end and concentric pivot only with their clump heavy duty front triangle.
    If steel is real then aluminium is supercallafragiliniun!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus
    I've never ridden a URT but personally...
    If you're ever in Maryland, let me know and you can try one.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by bad mechanic
    If you're ever in Maryland, let me know and you can try one.
    Thanks, man. If I do, I will.

    Likewise if you ever make it to Orygun. I don't have a URT to let you ride, but I'll happily introduce you to some singletrack that will leave you pondering a move out West. Bring the URT or the XCFS... SS or gearie... it's all good, fast & flowy. Just be prepared to climb a few thousand preflight.

    Thanks again for the URT offer. Hope I can take you up on it someday.

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  16. #16
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    I'm close to ordering a URT frame for my 2nd bike; street bike. It has a low pivot. My thought is that it will improve speed while standing but what I really what to know is if the pedal bob will cause my feet to slip while sitting? BikeIsland.com - Bicycle Parts, Accessories and Clothing at Affordable Prices with Free Shipping

  17. #17
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    Don't bother with that one. A hundred bucks and you still need to get a shock!?!
    If you want to try out or buy a URT, look on Craigslist, I see them for cheap. Low pivot ones are similar to Treks and Fishers. The mid pivot ones (ibis szazbo, Schwinn, control tech) rode better than the low pivot ones. The high pivot ones from Klein looked wonky, never rode ones tho.

  18. #18
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    Thanks, I got a nice 6in shock sitting around. It's 6061 aluminum (I'm 250lbs and rough. something I can manhandle) that's as cheap as it gets. What I'm building is a smaller framed bike with a laid back seatpost and bmx handlebars and tires. Single crank in the front 8 gears in the back. but I still want that rear shock. I know it's not ideal for off road but can't help but to think the URT MIGHT actually benefit in my application. I'm 70% sure I'm not going to get it....I'm just temporally obsessed with understanding. I got a Marin for the trails I want an urban assault bike to play in the street. I got all the nice parts sitting a Wally-World frame that has been welded twice already. All I need is a frame. Thanks again, if I had the money I'd get a Fisher hands down.

  19. #19
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    You need to know that frames are not the same, some or even most of the parts off the Wally world bike might not fit that frame Building a bike from frame up cost a lot more that just buying a complete bike.

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    I have the parts already, all quality and will fit fine. I'm mostly interested in the physics understanding the low pivot vs the higher. Speed and maneuverability are my main concern. Standing and climbing should be better for the street. I know this is a MTB forum but it's the best group of bicycle knowledge around. I have v-nice parts from years of tinkering, I got the Wally-Goose frame for $10 bucks and I love it! More than my Marin in ways...the high bars and the lay back seat... The kids call it "little Debo" (From Friday) LOL It's co comfortable and in the standing position, I can really crank some speed out of it... I can't believe it's not more common, very functionable. The URT was a mistake, but I can't help thinking for this application it might be a diamond in the rough.

  21. #21
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    To answer your first question, the 'pedal bob' will not cause your feet to slip off the pedals. Even on a high pivot URT where the BB moves more most people don't even notice.

    Why you resurrected a 6 year old thread and think you want a URT is a whole other issue! And you're not even running it singlespeed. That's the whole reason this thread even exists, because URT bikes can work for singlespeed because the BB is part of the rear triangle, unlike all other FS designs.

  22. #22
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    Speaking of URT SS frames...

    ...you guys saw this, right?
    URT? SS Pros and Cons-fs-ss-2017-sea-otter.jpg
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  23. #23
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    URT? SS Pros and Cons-fs-ss-2017-sea-otter-2.jpgURT? SS Pros and Cons-fs-ss-2017-sea-otter-3.jpg
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  24. #24
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    What. The F. Is that?

  25. #25
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    How the hell do you put a dropper on that thing?

  26. #26
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    I plan on making it a single speed eventually. Knowing and understanding....I need to understand, and this was the most intelligent forum I could find. I appreciate it. Like I said, just because it's shit off-road doesn't mean it might not have a purpose in this application. I got an old DNM shock that would fit...some other fine parts...who knows? Collectively, we do. I might be onto something. And thanks again. I know I just need to get on one and feel it out for myself.

  27. #27
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    This is a good topic for sure.

    There is a tempting green Schwinn URT in my size on eBay.

    I have decided it would be a bad idea for my household right now.

    But long term, I am going to keep this single speed concept in mind, and be on the lookout for a good chassis.

    The way a SS URT rides is something I want to experience on real trails.

    For one thing, they look intriguing. I catch myself speculating upon the way I would build one up.

    The dropper post issue exists on most of the designs. It would be good to have a dropper compatible URT.

    The concentric pivot Dean Baja bikes pop up from time to time. I would think something like that, or the Milk Money with a rear shock lock out would be a capable ride.

    An aesthetic negative are all the complications, since one of the attractions of the SS is the simplicity in itself.

    And finally, are any URT frames 650b capable?



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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goligo15 View Post
    I plan on making it a single speed eventually......Like I said, just because it's shit off-road doesn't mean it might not have a purpose in this application...
    Singlespeeding is wrong, therefore there is no such thing a a wrong bike for singlespeed.
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  29. #29
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    The Schwinn Sweetspot is 650B compatible if you don't run too big of a tire.

    I like my Schwinn for SS since it's pretty light and has short enough travel to mostly mask the URT's shortcomings. The big downsides are 26.8 seatpost, no IS disc brake mount, straight 1 1/8" headtube, and a shock size only Risse Racing makes new anymore.

    URT? SS Pros and Cons-sweetspot.jpg

  30. #30
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    A carbon Schwinn Homegrown Sweetspot SS I built for a friend:

    URT? SS Pros and Cons-sweetspotss.jpg


    Another Schwinn Homegrown Sweetspot SS I built for another friend:

    URT? SS Pros and Cons-newtomato.jpg

  31. #31
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    I'm starting my next SS build on a 2000 Schwinn Homegrown SweetSpot. Was thinking about going 27.5. What size tire in a 27.5 clears in the rear?
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  32. #32
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    Question:

    Are the Sweetspot's susceptible to squeaking at all?

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Burns View Post
    Question:

    Are the Sweetspot's susceptible to squeaking at all?
    Anything with a pivot is. However, on the Sweetspot you have a lot fewer pivots to service.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus View Post
    ...you guys saw this, right?
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	FS SS 2017 Sea Otter.jpg 
Views:	539 
Size:	125.0 KB 
ID:	1133933
    Primus video?

    Saw this thing somewhere, can't remember
    video=youtube;][/video]...

  35. #35
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    Can't argue that logic! LOL That frame keeps itching me tho... Will I be faster in the standing position, increase climbing? Yes, I believe so. Will I then lose that momentum as soon as I hit the saddle? Prob not much more than I have. I would go to a BMX forum but I KNOW I won't get intelligent answers...or would I?...na. I got a old SRAM 7 speed on the test-bike. It's so solid, I'm likely to keep it...IDK. I just know I love riding and tinkering with bikes and will continue to do so until I get it right. If I get it and it sucks, it will still be easy to sell, it will "look cool" and a $100 is a fair price for a 6061 new frame that's 20 years out of date. LOL I love my MTB, it is complete. But here lately I prefer riding on the street. I want it to be complete. What grade aluminum are Wally World bikes anyway? Whatever "the cheapest" is. I can't fand anything on it anywhere.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by bad mechanic View Post
    What. The F. Is that?
    Trying to picture it with a Lefty fork...
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  37. #37
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    Was out for a ride yesterday, when I saw a guy on a Zorro. It turned out to be John Castellano himself. We're similar in size, so he offered to let me ride it. It's set up as a 29-er SS with a 32:22 for climbing.

    I didn't ride it very far or do any descending but I have to say, the way he had it set up was spot on! It rode VERY nice.
    Goya! It's got what plants crave. It's got electrolytes. Livin in an Idiocracy.

  38. #38
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    Well before this thread sinks to the bottom I am going to say goodbye to the idea of building a URT SS.

    While I do want experience the URT SS ride, I have actually test ridden these bikes back in the day, and I realized being honest with myself, these designs are not that great. It's okay. But the only reason I can have for building and riding one is simply the novelty and the beauty of the design implementation.

    I am skeptical of the rigidity and durability of the design for SS.

    Finally I don't need any help in the retro department. Almost everything I ride is now retro, except one bike.

    I have to look forward.

    Right now there are three or four very nice Sweet Spot frames for sale on eBay. Someone should go for it.

    BTW slightly related, I once rode an Ibis Silk Ti up and down mountain. This could make an enviable SS bike. Alas, this design doesn't really climb well. It doesn't do anything well. But it works. Pretty slow and pokey Cadillac ride.

    So as I said, I want to look forward. Will there ever be anything besides the Lenz Milk Money purpose built for FS SS?

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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Burns View Post
    I am skeptical of the rigidity and durability of the design for SS.
    Unless you're a clydesdale, I don't think you need to worry about it. As I mentioned, in my immediate circle I have three Schwinn Sweetspots ridden as single speeds, and they've been very problem free.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by bad mechanic View Post
    Unless you're a clydesdale, I don't think you need to worry about it. As I mentioned, in my immediate circle I have three Schwinn Sweetspots ridden as single speeds, and they've been very problem free.
    That's awesome. The photos you posted are good too. Can you post some more detailed​ shots of the bikes. Things like the pivots and the steel rear end.

    What's the widest width rear tire that will fit?

    I noticed that the Catamount, the Schwinns, and the Breezer Twister all have different types of rear end designs. Which one is better?

    Also what is the difference in ride between the carbon Sweet Spots and the tubular Sweet Spots?

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  41. #41
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    drawback would only be the seat height to bb differential as the shock compresses, So instant droppa.
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  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirt diggler View Post
    drawback would only be the seat height to bb differential as the shock compresses, So instant droppa.
    Yeah, this is the main point for me. I don't want to strain my knee overcoming frame squat on a hail-mary maneuver. That's something I might do, knowing myself.

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