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  1. #1
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    Titanium Singlespeed Recommendations?

    Yes, I wanna experience this. I'm not the strongest of riders, but I have been diligently pedaling for nine solid years, since leaving rehab. I know its gonna hurt....but I want to get strong enough to do this once in my life.

    Budget is $2000(frame)....
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  2. #2
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    I'm really into making knee jerk reactions to questions like this, and then justifying them. That said, Lynskey. Mostly because they're just a couple hours down the road from me, and I've met a couple of the guys from there, and they were willing to talk about their frames with me, took time to contact me once they were back in the office, and were generally very cool, and not pushy when I was curious and indecisive. I do not own a Lynskey frame. In fact, I don't own a Ti frame. So, see also

    Cysco cycles. These guys only do Ti, I suspect they're over your 2K budget for a frame, and they are the reason I don't own a Ti frame. Also in Chattanooga, these guys talked to me in person for nearly two hours about my needs, fears, usage, hopes, and practicality. At the end of the conversation, one of the engineers told me he would LOVE to build the bike I wanted, but the honest truth was that if I break frames as much as I do (and I do) that a steel frame would serve me much better than Ti - and they don't build steel frames. They referred me to a friend of theirs that DOES do steel, and we still talk when we run into each other. I suspect if you ponied up the little extra cash for one of their frames, these guys would set a stunningly good example of how companies should do business.

  3. #3
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    Kona raijin would be woth a look. I the Spot Cream still around?

  4. #4
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    I would think that for your budget a custom frame could be attainable. I don't know anything about riding Ti frames, but I do know just a little bit about steel. The research I have done says that a good frame builder can make steel feel just like Ti, but Ti obv looks better imho.

    Lots of info on here about custom Ti and Steel frame builders.

  5. #5
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    Tronix (guys used to build for Titus), Vassago OptimusTi, and Roca Roja.
    All are Arizona based, as am I, and all are at the top of my list...someday.

    Others I would consider include the aforementioned Kona, Moots, Eriksen, Carver, Vertigo, Moonmen, Potts, and Strong. Some of which tend to be pure custom and would likely push that budget a bit north.

  6. #6
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    You won't find a Potts, Strong, or Eriksen in that price range.

    Have heard good things about Kona Ti. Lynsey been doing it a long time.

    You will get a very good ride out of custom steel. Probably very close to the ride of a non custom Ti. Custom Ti is all about the ride characteristics you choose to have.You will pay dearly for that, but absolutely love the ride!
    If you're lucky enough to be in the mountains,
    you're lucky enough.

  7. #7
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    The Spot is more in the dream budget.


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  8. #8
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    I switched to a Ti frame after I folded my steel one ( both singlespeed )
    I went with the KONA RAIJIN admittedly not after any testing of other frames
    just on the guidance of my L.B.S. I like the look and love the way it rides.
    It makes me appear to be a better rider than I really am.
    Built by Linskey at a price point that is in the range you gave.

  9. #9
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    Here is my suggestion.

    Titanium Singlespeed Recommendations?-img_20151217_093646%7E2.jpg
    Chumba Stella
    King Cielo- For Sale
    Vassago VerHauen-For Sale
    Kestrel Legend SL
    Soma Rush

  10. #10
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    I love the product placement!

  11. #11
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    I would also look at the Chumba Stella Ti. I do actually prefer a nice higher end steel frame. Or so my signature would hint.
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  12. #12
    the air is thin up here..
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    Honzo Ti
    2017 Transmission Smuggler
    2015 Kona Paddy Wagon
    www.mngnt.com

  13. #13
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    Titanium 420 - Carver Bikes

    Love my Carved ti420. Great frame and awesome company to work with.
    For $2000 you can do a custom ti frame.
    Last edited by Aaron1017; 01-19-2016 at 10:31 AM.

  14. #14
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    Does SEVEN make a SS 29er?
    "This is a male-dominated forum... there will be lots of Testosterone sword-shaming here" ~ Kenfucius

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cayenne_Pepa View Post
    Does SEVEN make a SS 29er?
    Maybe you should research and provide results?

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    I don't think you can buy the Seven head badge for 2K. Also I thought I heard Lynsey makes the kona frame for them.

  17. #17
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    Save more, then buy n Eriksen.

    Otherwise, just buy a carbon One9 RDO on closeout for $1000.

  18. #18
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    Carbon has no feel no soul. Don't believe the hype. Carbon is not crash tolerant and I learned my lesson the hard way. Carbon for road only and even then I prefer the feel of steel or ti.

    There are plenty of off the shelf high end frames built here in the USA that will fit the bill unless your 6 foot 7 and 400 pounds or 4 foot 11 and 95 pounds. I guess if you wanted untraditional geometry then true custom might be necessary. The truth of the matter is that for 90% of riders you can get the same quality and ride from a high end off the shelf or batch bike. My King is a thing of beauty.

    When I was looking for a custom frame reputable builders would send me custum drafts that I could just as easily find a off the shelf frame with the same geometry and the same tube sets.

    The above is my opinion based on owning more bikes over the years than ia fair and years of working on the industry.
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  19. #19
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    While you might prefer Ti, saying carbon is only for the road is laughable.

    (This coming from someone who has many carbon road, cx and MTBs, as well as an Eriksen Ti.

    My point is, for $2000 you're not going to get a great Ti frame on the new market. Save more and buy a nice one. Or get a great frame on closeout and buy a killer set of wheels as well.

  20. #20
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    Just not true. There are plenty of quality ti frames for 2k. There are only so many Ti tubesets. Other than custom geometry and maybe some pretty features you can get a great frame for around 2k.
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  21. #21
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    I've had ti SS, Reynolds 853 SS, 4130 SS, and scandium SS. Perhaps I'm a knuckle-dragging idiot, but I don't think there's a big difference among them. Currently riding off-the-shelf 4130 SS. If I was looking to try out SSing, I wouldn't start with ti unless I found a used one that fit well. I find SSing requires slightly different fit/geo, so its best to go through the learning experience of getting one, playing with the cockpit, different forks, chainstay length etc.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by briscoelab View Post
    While you might prefer Ti, saying carbon is only for the road is laughable.

    (This coming from someone who has many carbon road, cx and MTBs, as well as an Eriksen Ti.

    My point is, for $2000 you're not going to get a great Ti frame on the new market. Save more and buy a nice one. Or get a great frame on closeout and buy a killer set of wheels as well.
    I'm happy to go pre-owned....
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  23. #23
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    I cut my teeth in the SS world on a Misfit FE which had pretty aggressive geo.
    When I folded that steel frame ( definitely not the frames fault )
    I went with the Kona which is made by Linskey without the badging.
    I got it for $1550.00 cdn and love the way it whips around on tight corners in a race.
    What ever Cayenne's reason for thinking Ti, I know he will love it.
    Lots of choices out there, Raijin was mine.

  24. #24
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    Salsa El Mariachi Ti with Alternator dropouts.

  25. #25
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    I'm in the same boat. I was dead set on a Ti frame/fork, but promised myself I wouldn't buy another bike until 2017!

    So rather than go Ti, I started building a Surly Krampus at the end of November 2015. It's 4130 CroMo and an awesome ride! I'm very happy with it.

    Once 2017 rolls around, Jones, Vassago, and Carver are my front runners.

    I'll be watching this thread very close. Good luck.

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  26. #26
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    I have owned two Vassago Optimus Ti's, the Lynskey made one and the Arazona made one. The tube selection on the newer ones is way better for riders above 180 pounds. It still as that comfortable titanium feel with out being a wet noodle like the Lynskey built one. Plus I prefer the "Wet Cat" geometry.
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  27. #27
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    moonmen ti, epic rides

  28. #28
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    What is the ideal grade of titanium tubing?
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cayenne_Pepa View Post
    Does SEVEN make a SS 29er?
    Yes, they make everything configuration you can think of. If you go direct to them and go through the process of "customization", it will cost you more than if you were to buy a ready made Seven frame with the specs you require. The extra cost includes time, travel, calls, etc….and will LIKELY go over 2000USD. My LBS has a number of Seven, Lynskey and Lite speed frames ready made in "standard" sizes which sell from 1600USD to 2300USD depending on tubing. With haggling, can get from 5% to 10% off if you also buy other stuff. So keep a lookout for shops in your part of the world which also do.

    If you are really picky about the ride you want ( responsiveness, flex, weight, look ) then you should go down the custom route but I know some ppl who did not know what they wanted having never ridden titanium much before. They thought they knew, but once the process began, they realised they didn’t so ended up with “popular” configurations.

    That said, I am not over-joyed with Seven and think you can probably get just as good elsewhere for less.

    PM me if you want more details. I did a lot of ti research before I bought my one so I know a few things about the companies ( good and bad )

  30. #30
    LDC is ded,deth by trollz
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    Quiring Cycles

    Scott Quiring, Free Soil Michigan.

    Also add 1k to your budget. You want good ti not budget ti. Along with paragon sliders. Scott is using 157 rear ends also. Or whatever you want really. Also just know that Ti rides like a noodle. That's good or bad depending on how you ride.

    I own a Quiring and a Moto Ti. Not even close in ride quality. Moto is extra noodle.


    I was trying to add pics. I'm selling my Quiring to buy a steel el mar. I race SS and the Ti frame absorbs too much of the power. It's good for geared and spinning but when you want to mash the same flex that makes it a nice ride makes it a pain in SS mode. I've also ridden the Raijin a ton my riding partner has one. It's a trail bike not a race bike. So it's all about your needs. Having a super stiff Ti bike built defeats the purpose of getting ti. So after thousands of miles on Ti SS and geared racing and trail riding I would say..

    Racing XC..
    Custom steel
    Carbon with a good warranty
    Scandium

    Trail riding...
    Custom Ti
    Lynskey,Kona,salsa ti production bikes
    Custom steel


    Carbon for Joe trail rider is blahh

    Ti for Joe racer is blahh.

    Steel is real

    For reference I own a karate monkey, an el mar, a ScandAL, Quiring Ti, Motobecane Fly ti, BMC TE02 so I've ridden and raced on lots of SS. Including the BMC with a tensioner.

    Also I have a Blacksheep Ti fork. Now in that application Ti is amazing. More dampening than rigid not as much as a suspension fork. A good steel bike with a TI fork is bees knees.

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  31. #31
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    The larger tube set on my newer Vassago Optimus Ti rides a lot less noodley. I also found the Lynskey with the twisted tubeset rides similar.
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  32. #32
    LDC is ded,deth by trollz
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    Quote Originally Posted by Click Click Boom View Post
    The larger tube set on my newer Vassago Optimus Ti rides a lot less noodley. I also found the Lynskey with the twisted tubeset rides similar.
    Twisted tube and SS? Was that custom then cause the pro sl is not with sliders stock.

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  33. #33
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    You could get a Pro SL with sliders a few years back. I noticed the dropped it last year.
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  34. #34
    LDC is ded,deth by trollz
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    Quote Originally Posted by Click Click Boom View Post
    You could get a Pro SL with sliders a few years back. I noticed the dropped it last year.
    Thats a bike I'd like to try and bust the wet noodle myth. I'm 180 and SS. When you go for stiffer tubes it adds weight too. So then you are talking near 5lb Ti frames in XL. So then it's okay I can get a custom steel a bit cheaper and same weight. It's definitely a discussion that keeps on rolling.

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  35. #35
    LDC is ded,deth by trollz
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryder1 View Post
    I've had ti SS, Reynolds 853 SS, 4130 SS, and scandium SS. Perhaps I'm a knuckle-dragging idiot, but I don't think there's a big difference among them. Currently riding off-the-shelf 4130 SS. If I was looking to try out SSing, I wouldn't start with ti unless I found a used one that fit well. I find SSing requires slightly different fit/geo, so its best to go through the learning experience of getting one, playing with the cockpit, different forks, chainstay length etc.
    Great advice. If it's your first SS buy a Kona unit for 600 used and go give it a go.

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  36. #36
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    My Vassago Optimus Ti came in at 4 pounds 2 oz in a medium with all hardware. (Ti slider bolts)
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  37. #37
    LDC is ded,deth by trollz
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    Quote Originally Posted by Click Click Boom View Post
    My Vassago Optimus Ti came in at 4 pounds 2 oz in a medium with all hardware. (Ti slider bolts)
    I would imagine a Xl Lynskey pro sl with sliders weighs 5lbs or maybe 4.8. Big headtubes on Xl. A Pivot Les SS carbon wonder bike is almost the same. Just stiff as a board. Ti isn't super duper light it's great to ride no doubt. It's very forgiving for all day rides. With a suspension fork can ride all day. For SS mashing thought it's not the best. Based on my experiences. Everybody seeks different feedback from the frame.

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  38. #38
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    Keep it coming guys. What is the ti tubing to look for?

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  39. #39
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    I really prefer steel. I've currently have two steel frames in the low, 4 pound range and one that's a little over 5.

    This is my King and its 18.4 ish pounds rigid 19 pounds 12 oz with suspension. It could be much lighter with a few simple changes.

    Titanium Singlespeed Recommendations?-img_20160110_210927%7E2.jpg

    This is my Vassago VerHauen and the frame was also in the low 4 pound range. As it sits its about 21 and a half.


    Titanium Singlespeed Recommendations?-img_20160115_235301%7E2.jpg

    This is my Chumba Stella this frame is a little over 5 pounds. This one is built to be a little more stiff in the front. The top tube is the same as my other two steel frames down tubes. This one is also a large frame (on the small side for a large 29er harftail) and my other two are mediums bug I would say the black label Vassago's are more of a medium and a half.

    The Stella will be up and on the trails by this weekend.

    Titanium Singlespeed Recommendations?-img_20160118_135019.jpg

    And here is my Gen 3 Vassago Optimus Ti. This bike ranges from the low 18 pounds to just over 19 pounds depending on what whhels and tires are on it. It rides a little stiffer than the King and the VerHauen. I still prefer the steel Bikes.

    Titanium Singlespeed Recommendations?-img_20151217_093702%7E2.jpg

    Titanium Singlespeed Recommendations?-img_20140516_181501.jpg
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  40. #40
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    In my experience, Ti doesn't have to ride like a noodle. I've had steel, carbon and Ti frames and I'll take the Ti every time. Stiff, responsive and weighs less than steel. More feel from the trail than carbon.

    I'll take a Ti hardtail over carbon or steel. Especially one made for me.
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    you're lucky enough.

  41. #41
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    The problem that I keep coming across is I'd like a Ti frame/fork for SS build.

    A lot of the companies that offer Ti frames, don't offer Ti forks? They'll usually put carbon or suspension forks on.

    Jones is the only one with the truss fork that I can think of right now?


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  42. #42
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    rocarojabicycles.com

    Click above for Ti fork and they make frames too.
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  43. #43
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    Black Sheep will do a truss, unicrown or segmented fork. Potts also makes a unicrown fork.
    If you're lucky enough to be in the mountains,
    you're lucky enough.

  44. #44
    LDC is ded,deth by trollz
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    Steel with a TI fork is the way for SS.



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  45. #45
    Click Click Click
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    +1 for the Vassago Optimus Ti ... Been on mine for over 2 years, and LOVE it!
    "You either want to or you don't."

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Click Click Boom View Post
    ... Carbon is not crash tolerant and I learned my lesson the hard way. ...
    As much as I like the weight of carbon, I absolutely agree. It's totally fine if you plan to never crash it or don't think it'll take an impact but that's difficult with a mountain bike.

    I'm risk averse and rarely crash but my carbon HT somehow took a hit near the BB and now the carbon has a dead spot. Now it spends its days hooked to a trainer because the dead spot is spreading. It can be repaired but that costs money, which brings me to...


    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron1017 View Post
    Titanium 420 - Carver Bikes

    Love my Carved ti420. Great frame and awesome company to work with.
    For $2000 you can do a custom ti frame.
    ^^^This. I'd been looking for a budget-friendly SS Ti frame and this one fit the bill. Unfortunately I haven't spent any time on it yet so I have no comments about how it rides.

    What I will say about the frame is I'm a bit confused by the standover height--it seems much higher than claimed. I didn't do any final measurements yet but comparing it to my other 2 29ers, it should have been lower according to published specs but it is much higher with both a 120mm Fox Float and the Niner rigid fork I got. I don't understand.

  47. #47
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    Carbon is at least 20-1 vs all other frame materials for warranty/crash replacement frames here at the shop.

    I cracked a carbon frame from a crash that the frame never hit anything. I got a crack in the down tube from the pressure of my leg pressing up against it.
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  48. #48
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    I used to be a all carbon guy when I was younger and lighter.

    Now that I'm approaching 40, my mi.d set has changed a little and I'm more about the ride/longevity vs the weight and pure speed.

    I promised myself I'd never go thinner than a 3" tire and will only buy either Ti or steel bikes from here on out....

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  49. #49
    LDC is ded,deth by trollz
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    Quote Originally Posted by Click Click Boom View Post
    Carbon is at least 20-1 vs all other frame materials for warranty/crash replacement frames.

    I cracked a carbon frame from a crash that the frame never hit anything. I got babcrackbin the down tube from the pressure of my leg.
    A local guy recently cracked a salsa ti el mar they replaced with a spearfish carbon. Lynskey would not do that nor would carver or any custom.



    Also Quiring uses a carbon seat mast on the Ti frames. It's sick.

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  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaneDetroitCity View Post
    A local guy recently cracked a salsa ti el mar they replaced with a spearfish carbon. Lynskey would not do that nor would carver or any custom.



    Also Quiring uses a carbon seat mast on the Ti frames. It's sick.

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    I thought Lynskey was one of the better ones out there when it comes to Ti? One of the shops I talked with told me that they've never had a Moots come back and only a couple Lynskeys, which were covered. Both brands were out of my price range so I took my chances with the Carver.

    Btw, I'm definitely not challenging your statement. I'm just sharing secondhand info, which is not necessarily reliable.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by economatic View Post
    I thought Lynskey was one of the better ones out there when it comes to Ti? One of the shops I talked with told me that they've never had a Moots come back and only a couple Lynskeys, which were covered. Both brands were out of my price range so I took my chances with the Carver.

    Btw, I'm definitely not challenging your statement. I'm just sharing secondhand info, which is not necessarily reliable.
    You misunderstood by babble! I'm saying if you broke a Lynksey you would get another ti hardtail. Or a carver. Cause that's what they make. Salsa gave him that cause they can. What can he say? No? If he wanted a carbon FS he would have bought one in first place.

    Im saying this cause a salsa el mar is around OP price. So he could get his dream hardtail titanium singlespeed then have a carbon FS. Then what? Lol. Its a crazy thing and glad not me.

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  52. #52
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    Got it, thanks for clarifying.

  53. #53
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    Hettly Bikes

    Australia based, but with US$ exchange rate you can get a custom ti for about US$1000 with lots of options, incl. belt drive!

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaneDetroitCity View Post
    Also add 1k to your budget. You want good ti not budget ti. Along with paragon sliders. Scott is using 157 rear ends also. Or whatever you want really. Also just know that Ti rides like a noodle.
    What do you mean by "noodle" ? Over flexible, too damped, unresponsive, flat and boring ?

    I ask because I would never describe my ti ride quality in that way. Quite the opposite in fact.

  55. #55
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    I rode a Domahidy Ti SS at Breck Epic, and it's, by far, my favorite hardtail I've ever ridden. It's incredibly stiff climbing, tracks very straight descending like there's no tomorrow, and is really comfortable at the same time.

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  56. #56
    LDC is ded,deth by trollz
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    Quote Originally Posted by c8stom View Post
    What do you mean by "noodle" ? Over flexible, too damped, unresponsive, flat and boring ?

    I ask because I would never describe my ti ride quality in that way. Quite the opposite in fact.
    The simplest answer is not all ti is created equal. In my time riding Ti I find it too flexy. I have a Ti frame and fork. Put that together and for trail riding it's great. It flexes on the small bumps and is "forgiving". That's the appeal of Ti. Its a fine line though between forgiving and a wet noodle. I own and have ridden a Quiring, Motobecane and have ridden a Kona Raijin, Lynskey Ridgeline, another Quiring, Blacksheep all SS. On trails and racing. Every one of them is too flexey for me. Mashing up hills SS I want that stiff as a board feeling. Then back in the flow I want to have some flex. That's just my personal experience. All about the tube selection I'm sure. Just like good steel bad steel good carbon bad carbon, etc. I am planning on getting another Ti SS not like I'm tainted from them. I was more trying to say for 2 grand you'll get a wet noodle production frame. If you go 3k can get a custom with a 157 rear end and paragon sliders and massive chainstays and carbon seat mast and Lefty ready. 29+. That's what I'm getting next. Quiring is popular in Michigan and I'm suprised it didn't get mentioned before me. He makes NAHB or whatever its called winning bikes.

    If you spin not mash Ti is amazing. Just enough flex to make traction. If you get a nice forgiving frame and go to mash and the BB area flexes that's not for me.
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  57. #57
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    You don't need that wide of a rear end to be "stiff" 12x142, 12x135, 10mm bolt on or even 10mm through bolt will be plenty stiff. It's in the tube selection and geometry.

    A semi production frame that is designed to be stiff for Ti will ride as good as a made to order frame for most people. When I was shopping around for a custom Ti frame builders were coming up with what the Optimus Ti was for 1k more, so for me and many many people an off the shelf high quality USA made frame will be just as good.

    Now if some one was 150 pounds then my frame would be to stiff or not what they would think Ti should ride like, but guess what.... There are plenty of USA made off the shelf or non custom Ti frames that would be great for them. There are only so many Ti tube sets.

    My favorite example is my Chris King Ceilo. It's as well made as any cusom builders bike. I just couldn't choose my tubeset or geometry. But I knew that going in to the purchase. It's a made to order work of art, it is light and flexy in the right places and makes a perfect rigid trail bike for me. I have three other single speeds for other times occasions.

    It's just silly to think that $2000 doesn't get you a great titanium frame. Just do some resurch and pick the high end production frame that suits your needs. You will save a $1000 and only give up bragging rights and maybe some cosmetic only features.

    If your a normal size and weight person and want one of the many main stream types of 29er hard tail geometry you will have no problem getting an amazing Titanium or Steel frame.
    Last edited by Click Click Boom; 01-19-2016 at 11:58 PM.
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  58. #58
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    I have a Salsa El Mar in Ti and in steel....the Ti had a Enve carbon fork.

    Had the Steel bike first and rode the heck out of it. The Ti felt different and not better at first but I figured out there were some slight differences in geometry. After I dialed in the fit I do prefer the Ti...lighter for sure, seems to ride a tad less harshly. Was a bit faster on the my regular loop ride.

    Having said that I do love the steel SS El Mar and plan on keeping it. Wish they made a 29+ El Mar.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cotharyus View Post
    I'm really into making knee jerk reactions to questions like this, and then justifying them. That said, Lynskey. Mostly because they're just a couple hours down the road from me, and I've met a couple of the guys from there, and they were willing to talk about their frames with me, took time to contact me once they were back in the office, and were generally very cool, and not pushy when I was curious and indecisive. I do not own a Lynskey frame. In fact, I don't own a Ti frame. So, see also

    Cysco cycles. These guys only do Ti, I suspect they're over your 2K budget for a frame, and they are the reason I don't own a Ti frame. Also in Chattanooga, these guys talked to me in person for nearly two hours about my needs, fears, usage, hopes, and practicality. At the end of the conversation, one of the engineers told me he would LOVE to build the bike I wanted, but the honest truth was that if I break frames as much as I do (and I do) that a steel frame would serve me much better than Ti - and they don't build steel frames. They referred me to a friend of theirs that DOES do steel, and we still talk when we run into each other. I suspect if you ponied up the little extra cash for one of their frames, these guys would set a stunningly good example of how companies should do business.
    Hey guys I just want to give another vote for Cysco Cycles! I have a Richey Moore built Cysco Single Speed that I love to no end. I have ridden some very nice aluminum frames, and two custom 853 steel frames. The steel frames were close but for me the experience on this Ti frame is hands down the best!
    But to take it a step further this year I noticed 2 cracks in the welds, right down the center of the weld (that is a mark of a very good strong weld that has just failed due to fatigue, you cant fault the weld or the process). I was not surprised at the cracks with how I ride. Two years ago Clay Ellison purchased Cysco from Richey and even though this was not his frame he took real good care of me! My hat is off to Clay and Cysco! I ride this frame with pride...

  60. #60
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    spend a little more and get a MOSAIC from boulder in less than 5 weeks. You won't be disappointed.

    I broke my carbon SS frame on 2nd ride. Broke b/c of the crash that was painful to wallet too

  61. #61
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    Thinking titanium is the superior metal for a bike is kind of funny. It really depends on the tubeset and who is making the bike. I have owned a few titanium bikes in my day and all of them were a night and day difference. Most recently I had a kona raijin and was very disappointed with it. For being titanium, it was pretty darn heavy and it was so stiff that i would have been better off buying an aluminum frame that was way lighter, way cheaper and have similar ride qualities. The same can be said about steel bikes too! I had a True Temper OX Platinum bike that had amazing ride qualities but was super flex and broke after 2 years of riding. I have a custom now that has different tubing for different parts of the bike and it has the best of both worlds. I would recommend going with a custom builder who makes steel bikes then an off the shelf ti frame. Make sure you do lots of research on builders! I have lots of friends with nice custom bikes and some of them have great things to say and others will have nightmare stories.

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