Are these guys for real????- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Are these guys for real????

    I was taking a look at Dirt Rag #125 and caught an article that lead me to http://bikeportland.org/2006/07/28/j...t-with-fixies/ which leads me to WHAT DA F@!#K!!!! The cops are writing tickets on Oregon Revised Statute (ORS) 815.280(2)(a) which states,

    A bicycle must be equipped with a brake that enables the operator to make the braked wheels skid on dry, level, clean pavement. strong enough to skid tire.

    There has got to be another side to this story. Anyone out west care to offer an insiders perspective??? I would love to hear from the police side...

  2. #2
    pvd
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    it's a good law. the fixed gear thing is completely out of hand. brakes make a bike a lot safer. that means both front and rear even with a fixed gear. none or just fronts is just plain ignorant.

  3. #3
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    Ignorant huh? To each his own I guess. A front brake is more than enough on a fixed. When combined with a front brake a fixed drivetrain will stop more effectively than 2 regular road-style brakes on a freewheel/cassette bike.

    This is my real world experience. Can't say everyone will come to the same conclusion.
    Last edited by jro75; 02-16-2007 at 09:47 AM.

  4. #4
    wot no bike?
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    I'd like to see statistics on brakeless fixie accidents before I could decide whether or not this is a fair law. The problem is, sometimes laws are brought into action because of a clear, ongoing problem -- and other times they're brought into action due to a single, unfortunately incident. It's possible a member of city council got run down by someone on a brakeless fixie and they put the smack down; you never know.

    -pete

  5. #5
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    I guess I'm not with it up here in the upstate New York boonies. The Portland Police have time to enforce bicycle brake laws???? No dis intended to anyone but I am, well, kind of surprised...

  6. #6
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    The Question

    The question is not whether "the fixed gear thing is completely out of hand." The statistics on brakeless fixie accidents have no bearing either. The question before the judge was whether she was in compliance with the current law of the land.
    The law stopped short of defining the word brake as a tradition vee brake, disk brake, etc. It says the bicycle must be equipped with a brake, i.e. a device for arresting the motion as her lawyer so clearly pointed out. It even gives a convenient test to be administered to check for compliance.
    If SHE is strong enough to skid HER bike using HER legs, she is clearly in compliance, whether the judge thinks he himself could do it or not. If they stop someone who is too weak to succeed in performing the required test, then penalties are in order.
    And to Bawitdaba's statement about cops hassling cyclist, I really don't understand the enjoyment they find in it either, but I have definitely noticed that trend. It's like they get their jollies off ticketing us on technicalities that have no real world affect on safety. I think a lot of people resent cyclists for one reason or another.

  7. #7
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    This is a tough call for me... As a diehard bike commuter/errand runner, I really hate the thought of police harassment, although every time I have dealt with them, they've been on my side of a car accident report.

    OTOH, I can't say how many times some jerk on a bike (fixed,geared, whatever) has cut me off, run red lights in rush hour, or otherwise just been a total a$$ because they think the rules of the road don't apply. This makes drivers around me angry at all cyclists. So, if urban hipsters on trendy fixies they can barely control are cutting lights, they should get tickets JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE. If they aren't, then its harassment.

    Regarding the strict letter of this law "...must be equipped with a brake...". No matter if they are steel tree trunks capable of stopping a 40lb DH bike at 50 MPH, the bike is not "equipped" with your legs, so they cannot meet the legal definition as it stands. This would be akin to saying that you can wave your hand out the car window, so you don't need an indicator or brake lights. Sorry if the law is assinine, but just 'cause you don't agree doesn't mean you can ignore it. Instead, try to fight for a change, or stick a set of brakes on and don't use them. Maybe you'll be less cool, but who cares.

    Sorry if this sounds harsh, but I think that following a few rules (and let's face it, as far as rules go, this one is hardly fascist) and not b@*^ing anout it will likely help the cause of cyclists across the board, allowing efforts to instead be placed on productive things like fighting for more bike lanes, land access, and punishments for drivers who hit cyclists...

  8. #8
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    What if my hand has a spasm?

    What if my hand has a spasm and I can't reach for the brake? Or - What if my right hand gets hit by a meteor and I have a hang-nail on my left. I won't be able to steer.

    We can't have a law to protect us from every potential hazard... can we? With all the rapist, thieves, murderers, and con-artists walking the streets, donít you think the cops could find something better to do than hassle a biker's free choice? That is true ignorance - Straining at a gnats, and swallowing at camels.

    Here's my fixie - no brakes! I choose to live dangerously.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by SanAnMan
    What if my hand has a spasm and I can't reach for the brake? Or - What if my right hand gets hit by a meteor and I have a hang-nail on my left. I won't be able to steer.

    We can't have a law to protect us from every potential hazard... can we?
    True enough, and trust me, I don't think this is necessarily a reasonable law (I just like to play the devil's advocate ). Its like licensing for cars or motorcycles. Sure you can probably drive one safely, and so can I, but do you stick a 16 yr old on a Harley with no training or testing and tell 'em to go for it? No. Likewise, you can stop your fixie, but the other 10 guys who just picked 'em up because they know they're cool probably can't. Would you prefer imposed licencing laws for riding a bike on the street? Now THAT would be a draconian law worth fighting over. I just think that the brakeless thing only works for experienced riders, and that requiring brakes is not serious enough an imposition to get in a snit over. So it messes up the 'look' or 'zen' of the ride or some bull like that. So do helmets, but I wear one every time, even if I have never fallen on my head.

    You don't need to protect from every hazard, just the more likely ones. Although.... Meteor insurance does sound handy...

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by EvilScience
    Regarding the strict letter of this law "...must be equipped with a brake...". No matter if they are steel tree trunks capable of stopping a 40lb DH bike at 50 MPH, the bike is not "equipped" with your legs, so they cannot meet the legal definition as it stands.
    Maybe I don't understand your comment, but I don't see how using the drivetrain to arrest momentum via leg power is any different than using your brake lever to arrest momentum via hand power. In either case you are using a mechanical advantage system to arrest momentum. Certainly the former is more difficult, but I think it still meets the legal definition in my book (especially considering the law can be physically tested for compliance). If upon testing, you fail to skid the bike on a dry surface then you would be subject to the penalty, otherwise, you are in compliance.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by galleywench
    Maybe I don't understand your comment, but I don't see how using the drivetrain to arrest momentum via leg power is any different than using your brake lever to arrest momentum via hand power. Certainly the former is more difficult, but I think it still meets the legal definition in my book (especially considering the law can be physically tested for compliance).
    IMHO, it has to do with the definition of a brake, and the distinction in skill/strength required to stop with a hand-activated brake versus the drivetrain. A brake is defined as:
    1. A device for slowing or stopping motion, as of a vehicle, especially by contact friction.
    2. Something that slows or stops action.

    While the leg/drivetrain might be argued to count under definition 2, it is a close call, and certainly counter to the common definition of drivetrain. The 1st definition is by far the most commonly considered - requiring a separate device. I assume that the idea behind the law is to have a device that pretty much anyone (barring meteor or sudden wrist failure) can use to stop the bike in an emergency. Ever watched someone new just try to stop pedalling on a fixie - not pretty. On the other hand, most people old enough to be allowed to ride a bike (or fit enough to choose it) can activate caliper/V-brakes by hand and slow/stop a bicycle. In order to allow something requiring case-by-case testing and skill determination of the driver/rider, licensing of fixie riders would be required, as well as stickering/tagging of approved bicycles and the riders registered to use them. As I said above, that is a truly terrifying concept. Better just to stick a caliper on and have done with it. Again, there are better battles to fight.

    One could argue that I can use the 2,1,park options on my car's auto transmission to slow and then stop (albeit it won't do the transmission any good to cram it into park), so I don't need a brake. Obviously, this is an exaggerated and not quite appropriate example, but my brain is tired!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by EvilScience
    IMHO, it has to do with the definition of a brake, and the distinction in skill/strength required to stop with a hand-activated brake versus the drivetrain. A brake is defined as:
    1. A device for slowing or stopping motion, as of a vehicle, especially by contact friction.
    2. Something that slows or stops action.

    While the leg/drivetrain might be argued to count under definition 2, it is a close call, and certainly counter to the common definition of drivetrain. The 1st definition is by far the most commonly considered - requiring a separate device. I assume that the idea behind the law is to have a device that pretty much anyone (barring meteor or sudden wrist failure) can use to stop the bike in an emergency. Ever watched someone new just try to stop pedalling on a fixie - not pretty. On the other hand, most people old enough to be allowed to ride a bike (or fit enough to choose it) can activate caliper/V-brakes by hand and slow/stop a bicycle. In order to allow something requiring case-by-case testing and skill determination of the driver/rider, licensing of fixie riders would be required, as well as stickering/tagging of approved bicycles and the riders registered to use them. As I said above, that is a truly terrifying concept. Better just to stick a caliper on and have done with it. Again, there are better battles to fight.

    One could argue that I can use the 2,1,park options on my car's auto transmission to slow and then stop (albeit it won't do the transmission any good to cram it into park), so I don't need a brake. Obviously, this is an exaggerated and not quite appropriate example, but my brain is tired!
    I like to play devil's advocate as well, and I am speaking about the law itself, not the implementation of said law. Under the current definition, I still contend that this law has no basis for distinguishing between drivetrain braking on a fixie and friction braking. Both definitions for brakes you listed apply to stopping on a fixie, although I would amend definition 1 because there are certainly frictionless brakes in use (magnetic brakes for instance use electromagnetic resitance, not friction to arrest motion).
    I am not really for or against any position, but I think that the law has to be rewritten if there is a problem with fixies stopping (whether it is real or perceived) because any good lawyer worth his/her salt should be able to tear holes in the current definition, especially considering that the law has a physical test attached.

  13. #13
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    Speaking of the law, this is the actual law of land here in Washington DC:

    1204.1 Each bicycle shall be equipped with a brake which enables the operator to cause the braked wheels to skid on dry, level, clean pavement; provided, that a fixed gear bicycle is not required to have a separate brake, but an operator of a fixed gear bicycle shall be able to stop the bicycle using the pedals.

    I still use a front safety brake

  14. #14
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    face

    I like my face, so I use a front brake on my fixies.
    Yes, in plural.

  15. #15
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    Do the police in DC enforce bicycle laws??? Last time I checked the UCR, they were way up there...

  16. #16
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    Anyone want to comment on why they keep referring to this fixie rider as "she" when "she" is pretty obviously a "he"? (Judging by videos of "her" I've seen.) That's the weirdest part of the entire thing to me.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velokid1
    Anyone want to comment on why they keep referring to this fixie rider as "she" when "she" is pretty obviously a "he"? (Judging by videos of "her" I've seen.) That's the weirdest part of the entire thing to me.
    "Her" name's Ayla and they refer to her as a she, but you're right..."she" looks rather ambiguous...
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  18. #18
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    I just had a discussion about this with a friend who rides a fixie....

    What if - you had a brake lever and a cable taped down leading nowhwere - so in efect no brake so you give the illusion to the cops you have a brake.

    He agreed - most cops prolly wont' think twice about inspecting that closely - but his argument was ' we shouldn't have to' almost a puritanical 'we are being treated unfairly'.

    so in that regard - okay fine - have it your way and don't compromise - how many of your 'fixie' friends have hurt themselves in a situation where you had to stop suddenly - if he was being honest he says 2 out of 5 fixies have bit it big when needing to stop and couldn't more than likely due to inexperience.

    so if you are inexperienced and riding a fixie in shite traffic - aren't you akin to an inexperienced driver causing an accident or hurting themselves due to not knowing how to operate their car?

    personally - i have seen at least 10 separate accidents in under 3 years of constant commuting downtown Chicago to what i 'assume' are fixie riders (definitely singlespeed) who didn't stop in time OR couldn't 'react' in time to the just as daring cabbies.

    i told my buddy that i don't give a flying f*** about who wants to pose as what for whatever reason - but if a fixie came at me and couldn't stop because he is a poor fixie handler - he's gettign decked by me. you want to be cool and learn the hard way you aren't far off from being a shite in my book by perpuating coolness and causing yourself and others serious harm through your learning curve. everyone has accidents - but seriously - if you have one on a fixie - its still your own damned fault. if i forgot to hit the brakes in my car and i hit you - its very much my own damned fault...

    suck it up fixie fools - wanna challenge the law - sweet - do it but don't say that your legs are adequate brakes - they're not and those strawberries over your tattoos are pretty good proof.

  19. #19
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    my fixed gear is an actual track frame so it isnt drilled for brakes at all. if the bike doesnt have a place to mount brakes do they have to have them. kind of like how you can drive old cars that didnt come with seat belts because they were made before the seat belt law was created.

  20. #20
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    Here is the video showing that they can stop without brakes....found it over at you tube.

    This is damn funny stuff......http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwVqHaYdC0I
    Proud Tribe member since 1992 - looking for better singletrack to be ridden year round

  21. #21
    pvd
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    Quote Originally Posted by yetirich
    Here is the video showing that they can stop without brakes....found it over at you tube.

    This is damn funny stuff......http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwVqHaYdC0I
    these people are complete morons.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelisreal4130
    my fixed gear is an actual track frame so it isnt drilled for brakes at all. if the bike doesnt have a place to mount brakes do they have to have them. kind of like how you can drive old cars that didnt come with seat belts because they were made before the seat belt law was created.
    track frames are for velodromes and therefore are not made to be ridden on the road outside. on the other hand old cars were made to be driven on the road.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by SanAnMan
    What if my hand has a spasm and I can't reach for the brake? Or - What if my right hand gets hit by a meteor and I have a hang-nail on my left. I won't be able to steer.

    We can't have a law to protect us from every potential hazard... can we? With all the rapist, thieves, murderers, and con-artists walking the streets, donít you think the cops could find something better to do than hassle a biker's free choice? That is true ignorance - Straining at a gnats, and swallowing at camels.

    Here's my fixie - no brakes! I choose to live dangerously.

    Fixed with flats? You do live dangerously.
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  24. #24
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    As a (drunken at this time) MTB fixie rider I can promise that I can apply about as much braking with a 2.25 knobby tire to the rear as any other type of brake. Traction is the limiting factor, not braking force. But having no brake at all on the front is not smart, physics agrees. And Physics is smarter than tredy hipsters that tear around on brakeless fixies on the streets and trails.
    Slowly slipping to retrogrouchyness

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-reg
    As a (drunken at this time) MTB fixie rider I can promise that I can apply about as much braking with a 2.25 knobby tire to the rear as any other type of brake. Traction is the limiting factor, not braking force. But having no brake at all on the front is not smart, physics agrees. And Physics is smarter than tredy hipsters that tear around on brakeless fixies on the streets and trails.

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  26. #26
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    SanAnMan...I'm a cop and WISH I could arrest murderers, thieves and rapists all day long. Unfortunately, they neither wear shirts identifying themselves nor are there as many running around as you think.

    The reality is that if you ask any community what the problems they want solved they will respond with (probably in this order): traffic, vandalism, and juveniles having nothing do to (i.e. loitering.) When you see a cop writing tickets, they are responding to what the community wants them to do. When you see them harassing kids on skateboards, well, you get the idea.

    I don't like writing tickets and I hate telling kids to move along when they're just trying to have some fun but when we get complaints, we have to take action.

    I don't know much about this law but I'm guessing that the police are responding to a problem that has been brought to their attention.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelisreal4130
    my fixed gear is an actual track frame so it isnt drilled for brakes at all. if the bike doesnt have a place to mount brakes do they have to have them. kind of like how you can drive old cars that didnt come with seat belts because they were made before the seat belt law was created.
    who knows but your avitar is a good argument for brakes.

  28. #28
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    "A bicycle must be equipped with a brake that enables the operator to make the braked wheels skid on dry, level, clean pavement. Strong enough to skid tire."

    It looks like the traffic laws will have to be altered to reflect that fixed gear bikes don't always have or need brakes and that they can be stopped as well as bike equipped with brakes.

    Jamming your shoe between the wheel and rear stay also works.

    Until that happens the folks riding brakeless fixies should comply with the existing law and work to change it via education and demonstration.

    My next few projects will be fixed gears (one MB and one roadie) and both will be running flip flop hubs with a free/fixed combination so the brakes will stay for when I ride the free side of things.

    If I was going fixed only I'd run a front brake as this is where most of the stopping power comes from.
    I ride with 65'er...he's a mountain goat....But then again, we need to throw him in the mud and pack his pockets with lead shot before a scale will read him. - Psycho Mike

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  29. #29
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    Coaster brakes are found on everyday beach cruisers and children's bikes.
    They should be illegal.
    Relies on the drivetrain to slow down.
    Relies on leg strength to work.
    Will not work if the chain falls off.
    Are usually found on bikes WITHOUT a front brake or a backup option.

    Anything I missed?

    (I think I'm going to save this reply and paste it every time I see this topic come up)
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by teamdicky
    They should be illegal.

    BTW: I had to ride my wife's beach cruiser at work for over a week when my rear wheel was messed up on my fixie (didn't want to risk my road bike or mtn bike uptown on a daily basis). I was freaked out. The lag between pedaling, to getting the brake to engage, to go back to pedaling was a bit nerve wracking on the street. I know with time I would've probably gotten used to it, but I can say it made for an interesting week.
    Last edited by teamdicky; 02-17-2007 at 05:23 AM.
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  31. #31
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    We don't need legislation about fixies and brakes.

    Leave it to the traffic to cull the idiots on fixed wheels. Those that survive are good, really good.
    "The man is richest whose pleasures are the cheapest" Henry David Thoreau (obviously a single speeder)

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  32. #32
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    oh look another fixie hate thread......
    looking for 20-21" P team

  33. #33
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    Strong legs and good weight transfer can make a very effective brake.
    I'm willing to bet that bicycles with weak calipers (many road bikes) and coaster brakes outnumber fixed-gear bikes in the US at least 10,000 to 1.

    The cops in Portland have plenty to do, but being a "cycling friendly town", Portland tends to pay attention to cycling issues as well.

    Be RESPONSIBLE for your own safety, and the safety of those around you, and we won't have to be subjected to so many ridiculous laws. Maintain your bikes and skills like your pathetic life depends on it because it does. Even if you don't care about your own life, someone else probably does. At least you shouldn't burden the rest of your insurance group with your avoidable injuries.

    I think it's lame that so many in the ss forum are willing to rip on fixed gear bikes. Trendy? It's getting that way. So is single speeding.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by whodaphuck
    "Her" name's Ayla and they refer to her as a she, but you're right..."she" looks rather ambiguous...
    Rather?

    I think that would be an adams apple....
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  35. #35
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    You can't legislate intelligence..

    because everyone will fight you on it.

    [QUOTE=Bawitdaba]I was taking a look at Dirt Rag #125 and caught an article that lead me to http://bikeportland.org/2006/07/28/j...t-with-fixies/ which leads me to WHAT DA F@!#K!!!! The cops are writing tickets on Oregon Revised Statute (ORS) 815.280(2)(a) which states,

    Traffic laws are designed to increase vehicle safety and promote the free flow of traffic; at least in a perfect world. The forbidding or demanding of the act (definition of a crime) should obvious enough that it easily understood and a violation would be obvious. The Washington DC law, well intended to the minority that rides fixed is pretty much unenforceable. The reason being that any minor affliction to rider, i.e. sprained ankle or Charlie horse, would suddenly make the bike illegal to ride. Therefore, as much as I dislike big brother, if the government is going to lay down some basic safety rules for bicyclist, then having @ least one functioning brake is a reasonable requirement.

    I have been riding bikes for about 25 years and have been a police officer for about that length. I have also been riding a fixie to commute to work and do the occasional century for 5 years. There are lots of good arguments here about ones ability to stop a fixie without a brake. When I acquired my bike I took about 6 rides without a front brake and decided, quite intelligently if I do say so myself, to have a bike mechanic friend drill the fork and install a brake. Itís my opinion that the whole ďbike must be equipped with a brakeĒ vs ďI can stop without oneĒ, is intellectually dishonest. As I said before there are riders out there that can lay down a skid at will, but most canít thatís why there is a law. When I need emergency braking I grab a bunch of front brake and as soon as enough weight is transferred off the rear tire, it will skid. Fixed riding in adverse weather is even better because you can feel when the rear is breaking loose; kind of an early warning system. But I digress..

    Traffic laws are designed to increase vehicle safety and promote the free flow of traffic; at least in a perfect world. Most city police departments have a Traffic section. These officers' (often on motorcycles) have the job of enforcing the traffic laws in the city, not tracking down child molesters (although sometimes they do). The forbidding or demanding of the act (definition of a crime) should be obvious enough that it easily understood and a violation would also be obvious. The Washington DC law, while well intended, addresses the needs of the small minority that rides fixed, and is pretty much unenforceable. The reason being the law requires physical training and expertise that is not really explained very well. I have handled about a dozen of bicycle accidents with fixie riders. Regardless of the nature of the accident or who was @ faulty, the riders always said the same thing, #I couldn't stop in time". Therefore, as much as I dislike big brother, if the government is going to lay down some basic safety rules for bicyclist, then having @ least one functioning brake is a reasonable requirement.

    1G1G, Brad

    Oh and BTW, I feeling much better since my fixie crash on Friday and brakes or not, I was going down.
    Just one more rep and I get the toaster!

  36. #36
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    I was stopped as kid for this. I told him I have brakes that will make me skid. He said no you don't have any brakes! I told him I would prove it. Rode away turned around stuck right foot on the tire by the seat-stays and skidded to a stop about 3 or 4 inches from his foot and he wrote me a fix it ticket anyway. Lesson,.... wait for it,.... Cops like to f*ck with people on bikes!!!
    "Don't give up, Never give up!"

  37. #37
    discombobulated SuperModerator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver
    "A bicycle must be equipped with a brake that enables the operator to make the braked wheels skid on dry, level, clean pavement. Strong enough to skid tire."

    It looks like the traffic laws will have to be altered to reflect that fixed gear bikes don't always have or need brakes and that they can be stopped as well as bike equipped with brakes.

    Jamming your shoe between the wheel and rear stay also works.

    Until that happens the folks riding brakeless fixies should comply with the existing law and work to change it via education and demonstration.

    My next few projects will be fixed gears (one MB and one roadie) and both will be running flip flop hubs with a free/fixed combination so the brakes will stay for when I ride the free side of things.

    If I was going fixed only I'd run a front brake as this is where most of the stopping power comes from.
    Glad to see someone else uses this (chainstay right??)...used to do it all the time when we were kids...I remember some of our shoes with a grove running clear through the soles...Ahhh, the good ole alley races....

  38. #38
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    i see lots and lots of bikes that come into my shop that have 2 sets of brakes, neither of which work. also, as others have stated, coaster brakes are totally dependent on a chain...just like a fixed gear.

    sounds like the obvious solution is yearly bike inspections and mandatory insurance, just like automobiles.

    oh wait, that is a rediculous idea, just like ticketing brakeless fixed gear riders.

  39. #39
    Ride 2 Work, Work 2 Ride!
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    I used to do my endos with the toes. Then I set up a stem thru. I learned to setup my brakes. Now I will just keep working on 'em till they work the way I want. Including down grading the brakes to get more modulation.

    I do run a front on my fixy. So I would have to skid my front wheel to be compliant to that law.
    "Don't give up, Never give up!"

  40. #40
    The walrus and carpenter
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    Why have "serious" bikers become so obsessed with making bikes less practical? Really rediculous if you ask me. This is in the same league as the sideways bike. It just doesn't make sense.

  41. #41
    ravingbikefiend
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    For some... simpler is more practical and the folks who ride fixies tend to be pretty serious about their rides.

    I have found that I don't need a suspension or more than one gear to have the time of my life but I do appreciate well tuned brakes as having the time of my life often involves some insane speeds.
    I ride with 65'er...he's a mountain goat....But then again, we need to throw him in the mud and pack his pockets with lead shot before a scale will read him. - Psycho Mike

    -Environmental stickers don't mean shite when they are stuck to CARS!-

  42. #42
    Ride 2 Work, Work 2 Ride!
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeepSouthBuilder
    Why have "serious" bikers become so obsessed with making bikes less practical? Really rediculous if you ask me. This is in the same league as the sideways bike. It just doesn't make sense.
    May not make sense. It is the law in most places. Ignorance of the law doesn't
    equal right. In the eyes of the law and this is about being able to live with the
    law if we like it oar not!
    "Don't give up, Never give up!"

  43. #43
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    Not quite on topic, but close enough for me...I saw the coolest thing in downtown SF the other day. An androgynous messenger doing a perfect track stand with one hand on the bars, smoking a joint with the other.

    Now that is cool. If I tried to do a track stand, I'd end up on the ground flopping like a tuna. If I were to try smoking dope again (I've been out of college a very long time), I'd also end up on the ground flopping like a tuna. I can't imagine doing both at the same time, let alone doing both well.

    I don't think that he/she had any brakes on the bike, either.
    Dad is sad.
    Very, very sad.
    He had a bad day.
    What a day Dad had!

  44. #44
    Retro Grouch
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    It just doesn't make sense to you..

    Quote Originally Posted by DeepSouthBuilder
    Why have "serious" bikers become so obsessed with making bikes less practical? Really rediculous if you ask me. This is in the same league as the sideways bike. It just doesn't make sense.
    I guess it depends on what you mean by serious bikers. You could say the same thing about Singlespeed in general, or even hardtail bikes. The answer is simple, 'It's more fun this way". That's all. You also get to use bike skills that are different and there is a simplicity that difficult to explain. More then anything else itís about the ride. As you get older in life you come to realize that most destinations are utilitarian; so it just make sense that you would want to spruce up the ride and try something new. In many ways itís like riding a 7Ē suspended bike on the street. Iíve never done it, both those I have talked with say itís a hoot and thatís enough for me.

    1G1G, Brad
    Just one more rep and I get the toaster!

  45. #45
    The walrus and carpenter
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    I have a SS with one brake thats great for dirtjumping and urban/street. I agree that SS is fun and trouble-free for getting around town. This is taking it way too far.

  46. #46
    Avid Indoorsman
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    I rode fixed gear for a while with one brake on the front. I was always worried the cable would snap when I was going down a really steep hill with a busy intersection at the bottom.

  47. #47
    mtbr member
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    there's a follow up on a similar case...

    http://bikeportland.org/2006/09/05/c...xed-gear-case/

  48. #48
    The walrus and carpenter
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    We just finished Mardi Gras and if there's one thing I learned it's that I don't trust other people very much when I'm on my bike. I brought a bike downtown one day. Children, especially, are retarded around bikes. People run and step backwards all of a sudden and are generally complete unaware of their surroundings. If you don't want the general public to hate bikers as a whole then you are the only one responsible for being in total control. I'm tempted to go as far as to say that you need front and rear brakes when opperating in close proximity to people and cars. I think it's irresponsible and rude if you don't consider other people and other types of bikes in the equation. To the general public we are all just bikers. There are not different categories with different considerations.

    Not to mention the definition of trouble-free and low maintenance is a single rear disc brake.
    About this crap about breaking cables. That's just stupid. In 12 years of hard off-road riding I've broken one cable and it was a derailleur cable that got ripped by a branch. Cables DO NOT just break in normal use.

  49. #49
    Doesntplaywellwithmorons!
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    Quote Originally Posted by whodaphuck
    "Her" name's Ayla and they refer to her as a she, but you're right..."she" looks rather ambiguous...
    what? you didn't know there were transgenders in portland? Or are you just a homophobe ?

    It didn't take me more than a half second to figure it out... adult women generally don't have prominent adam's apples.
    I don't post to generate business for myself or make like I'm better than sliced bread

  50. #50
    Yes, that's fonetic
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeEight
    what? you didn't know there were transgenders in portland? Or are you just a homophobe ?

    It didn't take me more than a half second to figure it out... adult women generally don't have prominent adam's apples.
    Commenting on the ambiguity of someone's gender denotes homophobia???

    There are transgenders everywhere Dee, even here in Hawaii where, by the way, the acceptance of gays is far greater than on most of the mainland outside of the Native American culture.

  51. #51
    mtbr member
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    Quote Originally Posted by teamdicky
    Coaster brakes are found on everyday beach cruisers and children's bikes.
    They should be illegal.
    Relies on the drivetrain to slow down.
    Relies on leg strength to work.
    Will not work if the chain falls off.
    Are usually found on bikes WITHOUT a front brake or a backup option.

    Anything I missed?

    (I think I'm going to save this reply and paste it every time I see this topic come up)
    My thoughts exactly. And to be honest, a decently strong rider with a fixie can probably stop faster than a coaster brake equiped bike. Ever seen an effective coaster brake? Me neither.

  52. #52
    Bite Me.
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    Brakes just slow you down.
    When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. ~H.G. Wells

  53. #53
    gray hair in my shammy
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    Was riding with a buddy who threw his chain.......luckily He had a front brake. I guess He could have dragged his feet. I keep a front and rear on mine.
    "Veni, vedi, pulsus" "I came, I saw, I pushed"

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