Is there Luv after Mary?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
    (Ali)
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    Is there Luv after Mary?

    -- Short version:
    Have you switched to Luv handlebars from Mary? Could you adapt less sweep? Will I ever love Luv as much as I loved Mary?

    -- Long version:
    I went irrational a couple of weeks ago and in order to avoid an imagined aluminum Mary fatigue catastrophic failure, I've ordered Luv handlebars.

    I've moved Mary to my wife's bike, who always had wrist discomfort and numbness in her palms. After one long ride, she is happy with Mary!

    My experience with Luv has been different: after 5-6 rides with these bars, all I got is sore chest muscles and missing sweep.

    Luv has less rise. My stem was pointing down with the Mary, so I flipped the stem up and was able to bring the hand heights about the same as they were with Mary. (Actually very little higher now, which gives me more comfort when standing.)

    But I still can't get used to the less sweep of Luv. Could you? Should I give a little more time?

    Yep... Handlebar fit is very personal.

    Ali

  2. #2
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    Amateur/noob opinion.

    It seems that the Mary bar will provide you with more sweep ie, a more upright and relaxed position?

    Then I think its quite natural for the sudden changes in position to be affecting you... I would say give it more time but If you feel any pain in back/neck/wrist areas than it is quite clear you need a change in geometry.(or riding style/position)

  3. #3
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    Ha ha ha!!! He suspects metal fatigue in his bars so he puts them on his wife's bike!!!! I snorted coffee through my nose when I read this.

  4. #4
    achiever
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    Dude... you're worried about catastrophic failure of your Marys so you put them on your wife's bike?

  5. #5
    (Ali)
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    Quote Originally Posted by octotat
    Ha ha ha!!! He suspects metal fatigue in his bars so he puts them on his wife's bike!!!! I snorted coffee through my nose when I read this.
    Yes, yes...

    But I said "imagined", not "suspected"; and there is a big difference between my wife's beginner style of riding vs. my pulling on the handlebars like... like... a singlespeeder...

    Ali

  6. #6
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    I know a guy who rode Mary's and thought he was graduating by getting a Luv but said the same thing. He thought they were way to stiff to be on a rigid ride. He now is back to Mary's even though he has broken the Origin 8 version shaped exactly the same.

  7. #7
    What's "social pace?"
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    Just out of curiosity, do you have the luvs oriented with the rise going up or down?

  8. #8
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    I think you're brilliant.... going to the garage now to put some old high stress bars on the wife's bike!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by pisket
    Yes, yes...

    But I said "imagined", not "suspected"; and there is a big difference between my wife's beginner style of riding vs. my pulling on the handlebars like... like... a singlespeeder...

    Ali
    This isn't correct. Aluminum metal fatigue is remembered; failure results from work hardening; not sudden failure. You may have done sufficient damage to the bars to initiate failure with your wife as well. If you want her to have them, buy her some new ones.

    That said... I LUV my Luvs, more than the Mary's, but that is just me. If you want Mary's, there are a couple of options.

    1. There are some Cromoly Mary's out there. They are heavy, but definitely strong enough, and will likely deform before failing catastrophically.

    2. Brant has a new company called ShedFire and will be making some Mary similar bars with a 31.8 center, which will go a VERY LONG way in ensuring that the aluminum doesn't work harden as rapidly from the torsional forces of the extra bends. Should be killer cool. I'm planning on a set when they land.
    ...got chuck to join my Rock Racing SS team....

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by jh4rt
    This isn't correct. Aluminum metal fatigue is remembered; failure results from work hardening; not sudden failure. You may have done sufficient damage to the bars to initiate failure with your wife as well. If you want her to have them, buy her some new ones.

    That said... I LUV my Luvs, more than the Mary's, but that is just me. If you want Mary's, there are a couple of options.

    1. There are some Cromoly Mary's out there. They are heavy, but definitely strong enough, and will likely deform before failing catastrophically.

    2. Brant has a new company called ShedFire and will be making some Mary similar bars with a 31.8 center, which will go a VERY LONG way in ensuring that the aluminum doesn't work harden as rapidly from the torsional forces of the extra bends. Should be killer cool. I'm planning on a set when they land.
    Brant ended up naming the company "Ragley", and that new bar is already for sale here in the UK. No US distributor yet that I know of.

    Reviews so far are very good... one here and a basic info one here

  11. #11
    I'm just messing with you
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    There's the Misfit Fu bar too, but it's got a 25.4 center
    Chasing bears through the woods drunk with a dull hatchet is strongly not advised

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by boomn
    Brant ended up naming the company "Ragley", and that new bar is already for sale here in the UK. No US distributor yet that I know of.

    Reviews so far are very good... one here and a basic info one here
    Well sort of.

    Brant has a design company called Shedfire

    Brant is contracted to Hotlines, to design for them.

    Brant has launched a bike brand through Hotlines called Ragley.

    Brant also designs for Nukeproof, and "assists" on other Hotlines distributed brands in the UK/Europe (like Lynskey).

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by brant
    Well sort of.

    Brant has a design company called Shedfire

    Brant is contracted to Hotlines, to design for them.

    Brant has launched a bike brand through Hotlines called Ragley.

    Brant also designs for Nukeproof, and "assists" on other Hotlines distributed brands in the UK/Europe (like Lynskey).
    thanks. Always good to hear it from the man himself.

    Any time frame for US distribution? Sounds like you're doing quite well on your side of the ocean, but we Americans like your stuff too! Being contracted to a European distributor doesn't sound conducive to making that happen quickly though

  14. #14
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    Pisket,

    A few observations based on your comments.

    It is evident to me that the issues with comfort with the Luv are not due to the amount of sweep change (the angle of the grip in relation to the bar centerline), but in the change in position of your cockpit.

    The Mary that you had on your bike extends further back toward the rider from the stem centerline than that of the Luv Handle. When you swapped bars, your cockpit suddenly grew in length due to this discrepency. The longer cockpit will require you to extend farther to reach the controls, manifesting in two physiologic results;

    1.) the resultant position will feel like it is lower and that you have more weight on the bar

    2.) the forward position will force your accessory muscles to take up the greater stress that has rotated off of your sit bones.

    These two results are directly related to your need to flip the stem to increase comfort and the chest/shoulder/neck fatigue you are experiencing.

    The Luv handle was designed to maintain the same stem/grip centerline and resultant cockpit dimensions when a replacing a standard bar, one of the reasons it is a strong aftermarket product. However, when replacing alt bars that have a large rearward extension (Jones, Mary), you will need to replace the stem with a shorter version to maintain the correct cockpit dimensions and rider positioning.

    As for the tilt of the grip section, the bar is designed to allow for individual positioning and comfort. Once you have the correct stem length, I suggest mounting the bar a little loose, placing your hands on the grips, and allowing the bar to rotate and settle in to your palm using your medial web between your thumb and index finger as the rotation point. This will allow the bar to fit your individual ergonomics based on rider position so that no undue stress is created across the palmer surface. Once you have got it all settled in, tighten everything down and hit the trail.

    So much of bicycle fit is understanding the dynamics of component choice and proper positioning. With a little modification of your current set up, I think you will feel a marked difference in comfort and performance.

    If you have any further questions, please call.

    cheers,

    rody
    As requested by the MTBR gods, I am the voice of Groovy Cycleworks, check it out... http://www.groovycycleworks.com

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by bstrick
    I know a guy who rode Mary's and thought he was graduating by getting a Luv but said the same thing. He thought they were way to stiff to be on a rigid ride. He now is back to Mary's even though he has broken the Origin 8 version shaped exactly the same.
    As a quick aside, there is a reason that the Luv handles are offered in two versions.

    The steel bar is designed to offer a stiff platform for maximum energy efficiency when used with front suspension.

    The Ti bar is the suggested product when used on a fully rigid application due to it's small bump absorption and ability to provide greater comfort for rigid or endurance riding.

    Nothing is more frustrating than not having the proper tool for the job...

    rody
    As requested by the MTBR gods, I am the voice of Groovy Cycleworks, check it out... http://www.groovycycleworks.com

  16. #16
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    How are the specs of this bar compared to an On-One Fleegle bar?

  17. #17
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    Is Mary such a popular bar here? I never though of putting such layback bars on my bike before

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGenTwo
    Is Mary such a popular bar here? I never though of putting such layback bars on my bike before
    you must be new do a search for mary and alt bars. you will find lots of info. some positive, some negative, but all helpful in my opinion.

  19. #19
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    I have been on Mary since they came out and always liked the feel of the sweep. The wrist and shoulder pain had gone away after switching over. Through the years with Mary, I felt that she made my bike handling skills a bit slower. Since then, I had been looking for a suitable replacement.

    About two months ago, I won a steel Luv Bar from Rody. I was quite impressed with the bar after receiving it. This bar inspired confidence while just holding it in my hands. Was I worried about less sweep? Sure I was. I promptly put the bar on my Rigid Quiring 650b Single Speed and took er out to my favorite most ridden trail to get a little comparison. My impressions were quite positive. I found that the Luv brought my handling skills right back to where they used to be. I was cruising through the tighter sections with ease (There always seemed to be something awkward about the Mary's). The stiffness was another thing I noticed. I loved how much more stiff they were then Mary. The Luv made Mary seem like a wet noodle. The only adjustment I had to make with the LUV was to cut about an inch off of each side after the first ride because I had received the longer version. There were no stem changes made because I felt the position with the Luv was close enough to where I was at before. I had no lingering wrist or shoulder pain resulting from the change either!

    I liked my new Luv so much that I turned around and got another one for my 29er Rigid Single Speed. My feelings on the 29er were the same as the 650B only I made sure to order the 26 inch version.

    One of the things that I know i will love the most about the LUV is that they will last forever. When the finish gets crappy, I will just have them powdercoated or painted and I am good to go for several more years

  20. #20
    (Ali)
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    Quote Originally Posted by dinoadventures
    Just out of curiosity, do you have the luvs oriented with the rise going up or down?
    The rise is going up, just like I had the Mary.

    But because the rise is less, I flipped the stem: it was pointing down with Mary and up with Luv. Judging from the pencil marks I put on the wall, this gave me the right height at the tips of the bar.

    Thanks for everyone for their comments too...

    Ali

  21. #21
    (Ali)
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGenTwo
    Is Mary such a popular bar here? I never though of putting such layback bars on my bike before
    Try them... You may wonder why people ride the unergonomic straight bars.

    Ali

  22. #22
    (Ali)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rody
    you will need to replace the stem with a shorter version to maintain the correct cockpit dimensions and rider positioning
    Thanks Rody! Do you know how much shorter the stem should be?

    Meanwhile, I will try to measure inaccurately off the two bikes that the bars are installed on.

    Ali

  23. #23
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    Marys sweep forward and then back. I am willing to bet the hand position is about the same as a similar rise flat bar or the Luv Handles.

  24. #24
    (Ali)
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    Quote Originally Posted by umarth
    Marys sweep forward and then back. I am willing to bet the hand position is about the same as a similar rise flat bar or the Luv Handles.
    I definitely thought so too. I just measured today and realized that Luv increases the reach by about 1 inch compared to Mary (or maybe 3/4 inches; I am measuring very roughly).

    Ali

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by pisket
    I definitely thought so too. I just measured today and realized that Luv increases the reach by about 1 inch compared to Mary (or maybe 3/4 inches; I am measuring very roughly).

    Ali
    that's not an insignificant amount either. It means you would theoretically want a stem that is at least 20mm shorter

  26. #26
    Ovaries on the Outside
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    Quote Originally Posted by boomn
    that's not an insignificant amount either. It means you would theoretically want a stem that is at least 20mm shorter
    .. assuming both bars are the same width? I love variables towards finding the perfect fit.

    In any case, I'm just waiting for the photos pisket posts of the gory photos from when a busted handlebar frags his wife.

  27. #27
    (Ali)
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    Quote Originally Posted by umarth
    .. assuming both bars are the same width? I love variables towards finding the perfect fit.

    In any case, I'm just waiting for the photos pisket posts of the gory photos from when a busted handlebar frags his wife.
    It's not gonna happen! There is nothing wrong with the Mary bars. I just went irrational and justified a Luv purchase; that's all...

    Ali

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by umarth
    .. assuming both bars are the same width? I love variables towards finding the perfect fit.

    In any case, I'm just waiting for the photos pisket posts of the gory photos from when a busted handlebar frags his wife.
    that's exactly why I said "theoretically" and put it in italics I should have added more disclaimers though, because fit can certainly be a lot of SWAG (scientific wild ass guesses)

    I was just trying to put that out there as a ballpark number for people looking into it and also mostly to point it out because 20mm is generally considered a large difference in stem length so you should assume that you will likely need a new stem. If the Luv is wider you might want it even shorter than that, but the wildly different sweep angle throw all my guesses out the window

  29. #29
    Ovaries on the Outside
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    Saw it, homie. I know you're a baller.

  30. #30
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    nothing wrong with mary bars, they aren't breaking like crazy despite the hysteria on mtbr. i have been seriously floggin marys on both SS and trail bikes, racing and jumping included, for years with no problems.

    i prefer my luvs on the geared trail bike, but nothing can replace the marys on my SS (except another set of marys, religiously every season). i have no issues going between the bars...yes the luvs have less sweep but the exchange IMO is better control on really steep or rough stuff.

    also been enjoying the dirt drop bars, particularly with a rigid fork.
    what would rainbow unicorn do?

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by brant
    Well sort of.

    Brant has a design company called Shedfire

    Brant is contracted to Hotlines, to design for them.

    Brant has launched a bike brand through Hotlines called Ragley.

    Brant also designs for Nukeproof, and "assists" on other Hotlines distributed brands in the UK/Europe (like Lynskey).
    Shiiiiite... You talk like you KNOW him or something. . .Freaking name dropper.
    ...got chuck to join my Rock Racing SS team....

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