Surly w/ freewh vs Hope freehub- Mtbr.com
Results 1 to 34 of 34
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    227

    Surly w/ freewh vs Hope freehub

    So, I am looking at a new set for my MonoCog 29er. The only experience I have with hubs is with the ones that came on the bike-a freehub. I have different sized cogs so i like the idea of getting a hub that I can use them on. But the two hubs in my budget from the wheelsmith I want to use are the Surly new and the Hope Pro II with a pretty significant bump in $ for the Hope. SO, given that I will put the bike through the same abuse with either set up (not a lot to be honest I ride XC, don't let the rubber off the ground on purpose. Love to climb and come down flowy or tech but I am not a basher) -in the long run which will be more cost effective and reliable/require less service?? I have read through the FAQ on this, I am just hoping for some real world experience and insight.

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    4,667
    Make sure you include the cost of a White Industries freewheel with the Surly hubs for the comparison.

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    314
    The Hope setup will be lighter, but both setups will be just as smooth/reliable/wicked awesome (Surly with White freewheel, don't mess around with any other freewheel).

    My SS has a Surly hubs with a WI 18t trials freewheel, and my geared setup is a 1x6 on a Hope Pro II SS hub.

    Another plus to the Hope setup is if you feel like you want to run gears, you can run 5 or 6 on the SS cassette freehub on the Hope.

    The Surlys price can't be beat though, and servicing them is too easy.

  4. #4
    WNC Native
    Reputation: nitrousjunky's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    3,667
    How often do you change your cog?

    Which is cheaper the additional cost of the Hope Pro II hub or buying multiple WI freewheels?
    "I ride to clear my head, my head is clearer when I'm riding SS. Therefore, I choose to ride SS."~ Fullrange Drew

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    227
    So, if I could only 'afford" ACS freewheels, would that make most of you advise to go with the Hope?

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Nater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    2,855
    Quote Originally Posted by alpka
    So, if I could only 'afford" ACS freewheels, would that make most of you advise to go with the Hope?
    Yeah, I would. Especially if you already have a decent collection of cogs and like to change gears frequently.

    As sweet as the White Ind freewheel is, it's a grunt to get them off of a hub, and not something I liked to do very often. I have a casette hub now...

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    314
    Yeah, changing freewheels is a pain. I don't change gearing very often on my ss though (actually, I haven't changed at all in the couple of years since I went to my current gearing), so it's a non-issue for me.

  8. #8
    Ron
    Ron is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Ron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    200
    I'd say a Paul hub and WI freewheel. The price of the two is about the same as the Hope hub.

    I've had 3 Surly hubs and I always had trouble keeping the bearing adjustment nuts at the right tension. I've known\heard of several accounts of the Hope freewheel going bad but never a WI freewheel. The Paul hub is awesome to adjust and stays at the perfect tension.

    You can change the front ring instead of the freewheel also if using the WI. Front rings aren't expensive either.

  9. #9
    achiever
    Reputation: redwarrior's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    929
    I have a Surly hub with a WI freewheel. I love the freewheel and it rides great but... I can't get the damn freewheel off anymore. It's too tight. Not frozen... I applied a liberal coating of anti-seize before installation. When a 1/2" impact rated at 550 ft. lbs in reverse (if I remember correctly) with 120psi to it won't budge the thing, it's going to stay there until the freewheel dies.

    I will be building a rear wheel with a Hope SS/Trials hub next winter.

  10. #10
    achiever
    Reputation: redwarrior's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    929
    Oh, and I'm always adjusting the bearing pre-load on the hub for some reason. Always develops too much play after 4 or 5 rides on rough terrain. The front is holding pretty well, though.

  11. #11
    Ron
    Ron is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Ron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    200
    Quote Originally Posted by redwarrior
    I have a Surly hub with a WI freewheel. I love the freewheel and it rides great but... I can't get the damn freewheel off anymore. It's too tight. Not frozen... I applied a liberal coating of anti-seize before installation. When a 1/2" impact rated at 550 ft. lbs in reverse (if I remember correctly) with 120psi to it won't budge the thing, it's going to stay there until the freewheel dies.

    I will be building a rear wheel with a Hope SS/Trials hub next winter.
    4ft piece of pipe over the wrench for a cheater bar, the freewheel tool secured finger tight with the axle nut and that freewheel doesn't stand a chance

  12. #12
    achiever
    Reputation: redwarrior's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    929
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron
    4ft piece of pipe over the wrench for a cheater bar, the freewheel tool secured finger tight with the axle nut and that freewheel doesn't stand a chance
    Except I kind of completely f&%^$ up the twongs on the freewheel. Could probably file them square again, get new tool and try again but I'm done with freewheeling. Not a bad experiment but too much of a pain in the ass.

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    4,667
    Quote Originally Posted by redwarrior
    Except I kind of completely f&%^$ up the twongs on the freewheel. Could probably file them square again, get new tool and try again but I'm done with freewheeling. Not a bad experiment but too much of a pain in the ass.
    If you had been doing it correctly they wouldn't be damaged. You need to properly secure the tool to the hub so it doesn't slip off. I like the ACS freewheel tool. Bolt it on almost tight, break it loose, then turn it off. Simple.

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    538
    if i could do it again i would use a paul hub with a white industries free wheel over a surly hub. got my wheel set built in october blew the front bearings in november, thanks giving actually. and completely destroyed the rear bearing as well as the bearing seat in the rear hub in march. am now waiting for the thing to give out again so i can replace it with something better. not impressed with the Surly hubs in the least bit.
    stumpjumper 29 evo
    Jabberwocky
    Gt peace 9'r
    SE Lager

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    2,120
    Other considerations:

    Hope hubs come in pretty colors.
    Hope hubs are loud so people get out of your way when they hear you coming.

    Personally, if I were building up new wheels I would go with the Hopes. I currently run White Industries hubs with their freewheel on my singlespeed (and Hopes on my geared bikes), but a cassette style hub makes more sense. Easier to change gears, cheaper to replace cogs when the teeth wear out. More choices in the larger range (WI is the only source I know of for 19-22 tooth freewheels).

  16. #16
    achiever
    Reputation: redwarrior's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    929
    Yeah, good point. It was fine for the first two tries but I got a little careless and took 5% of my weight off of the gun and it slipped.

    Quote Originally Posted by Schmucker
    If you had been doing it correctly they wouldn't be damaged. You need to properly secure the tool to the hub so it doesn't slip off. I like the ACS freewheel tool. Bolt it on almost tight, break it loose, then turn it off. Simple.

  17. #17
    achiever
    Reputation: redwarrior's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    929
    Quote Originally Posted by nickcarll
    if i could do it again i would use a paul hub with a white industries free wheel over a surly hub. got my wheel set built in october blew the front bearings in november, thanks giving actually. and completely destroyed the rear bearing as well as the bearing seat in the rear hub in march. am now waiting for the thing to give out again so i can replace it with something better. not impressed with the Surly hubs in the least bit.
    I blew out one of the bearings in my rear hub, too. Forgot about that. I think it was installed wrong from the factory but I'm not sure.

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    538
    yeah they are in the instructions that come with the hubs it says to check the bearing before install to make sure they are properly seated. just because i am curious what side bearing did you mess up? i wish i had pictures of mine. the bearing came out in 5 pieces not including the balls, the seat it sits on inside the shell is half the thickness it started out because when the bearing let go i was half way through a ride and din't have any other choice but to ride it out... not thrilled with the surlys
    stumpjumper 29 evo
    Jabberwocky
    Gt peace 9'r
    SE Lager

  19. #19
    is buachail foighneach me
    Reputation: sean salach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    6,589
    I have both. I like the surly/wi combo, but the ease of switching out cogs on the hope, combined with the bling factor give it a slight preference edge with me.

  20. #20
    Gigantic Hawk
    Reputation: dubthang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    1,553
    Listen to Nickcarll. I have seen/adjusted his bearings first hand. The Surly's are not worth a damn on my book. Our buddy RussoJ has the Hope's. They have been running strong so far.

  21. #21
    jdg
    jdg is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    243
    I've been running Paul hubs with WI freewheels for a year now, zero issues. I change from a 34 to a 32 front ring most often to change gearing nowadays (with a 20t rear on a 29'er). Also, it is not too likely you will wear the teeth on a stainless freewheel any time soon. Stainless is hard...to put it mildly.

    I got a really good deal on a pre-built wheelset otherwise the Hopes or similar would have been a consideration. I live in central Va where it's fairly flat to rolling but make trips to the mountains often so gear changes are in order. If you ride the same terrain the majority of the time then it's not as likely you'll be changing gears.

  22. #22
    is buachail foighneach me
    Reputation: sean salach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    6,589
    If Surly would offer a non-adjustable bearing and axle with stops option or upgrade, they would go up a notch in my book. Some people seem to like the adjustable bearings, but I'm not one of them. Very few of my hubs with non-adjustable bearings have developed play as quickly as the Surly hubs do.

  23. #23
    achiever
    Reputation: redwarrior's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    929
    It was the brake side bearing. I when I pulled them out, I swear one of the bearings had the blue seal facing out and the other side of the hub had the black. I sent an email to Enduro and got a great reply on the orientation of angular contact bearings: the side with the thinner looking inner race goes in.

    Quote Originally Posted by nickcarll
    yeah they are in the instructions that come with the hubs it says to check the bearing before install to make sure they are properly seated. just because i am curious what side bearing did you mess up? i wish i had pictures of mine. the bearing came out in 5 pieces not including the balls, the seat it sits on inside the shell is half the thickness it started out because when the bearing let go i was half way through a ride and din't have any other choice but to ride it out... not thrilled with the surlys

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation: bikeny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    3,970
    I would go with the Hopes. Actually, I did go with the Hopes! I've been riding them for over 2 years with no issues whatsoever. I took the freehub apart once about a year ago to see how it looked, and it was nice and clean and well greased, so I just put it back together. I never want to run a hub with a freewheel for the reasons already mentioned:

    Only one source for quality freewheels
    19t-22t are the only options (I run a 24t cog)
    Getting freewheels off seems to be an issue
    non-adjustable chainline

    Mark

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    538
    On the note of having non adjustable hubs when I blew the front bearings the only bearings readily availble where the 6801 bearing the surly hub calls for a 7801 angular contact bearing. I may be wrong here and correct me if I am but the 6801 is not an angular bearing and therefore not adjusatble right? Or am I way off on this one. The front hub has had very lite issue since I changed to the 6801 bearing. Do you think this wod solve the surly issue.
    stumpjumper 29 evo
    Jabberwocky
    Gt peace 9'r
    SE Lager

  26. #26
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Climber999's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    720
    The easiest way to remove an Eno FW is the clamp the wheel and turn counter clock wise. It will alway loosen up...

    A few people mentioned WI hub. Be aware of chainline; WI is 47mm, Paul is 51mm. Freehub gives you more flexibly where to position your cog. If you don't change your cogs at all, go FW, otherwise FH.
    Last edited by Climber999; 04-24-2010 at 03:52 PM.

  27. #27
    mtbr member
    Reputation: metrotuned's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    1,812

    Hope > Surly

    "Be aware of chainline" Climber999, are you talking about WI freehub with 47mm, because that doesn't apply here to a WI SS setup. The White Industries freewheel goes onto a SS specific hub, for example the Paul 51mm hub, thus the chainline of WI is 51mm as well.

    Having both the hubs in use in the past, the Surly is heavy, the only con really amongst its many pros.

    alpka: As the OP, you said you can afford the Hope II freewheel SS rear hub, just go for that! It's a superior choice with looks, weight, and points of engagement to a Surly hub ACS freewheel.

    This from MTBR member, unospeedo:

    <object width="445" height="364"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube-nocookie.com/v/wmuTH__4bnk&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0&color1=0xe1600f&co lor2=0xfebd01&border=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube-nocookie.com/v/wmuTH__4bnk&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0&color1=0xe1600f&co lor2=0xfebd01&border=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="445" height="364"></embed></object>
    Creative Producer, Will of the Sun, Platform Pedal Shootout 1M+ views WoS

  28. #28
    is buachail foighneach me
    Reputation: sean salach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    6,589
    Quote Originally Posted by Climber999
    The easiest way to remove an Eno FW is the clamp the wheel and turn counter clock wise. It will alway loosen up...

    Assphinctersayswhat?

  29. #29
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Climber999's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    720
    I am talking about WI SS hub. The chain line is 47mm. I am in the market for a SS hubs and was considering a WI Eno (standard) -- a very beautiful product. Unfortunately, I could not use them because of the chainline. I think polished Paul or silver Hadely will be my choice.

  30. #30
    formerly Gobike69
    Reputation: Big Daddio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    346

    No Surly!

    I too have a Redline monocog and I built up a Surly hub with a White Industry freewheel for it. The WI freewheel rocks. I have one on my BMX race bike also and the engagement is instant and solid. I can't say enough positive things about my WI freewheels.

    The Surly hub is worthless. In less than a year I have gone through 2 drive side bearings. If I tension the bearings enough so there is no play the bearings wear out super quick. If I leave a little play in the bearing load then the bearings seem to last but the play in the hub is driving me nuts I had one of the old style Surly hubs on my old single and it didn't have this problem. Surly changed the design and they didn't get it right. It's been very frustrating

    At some point this summer I'm going to get either a Paul or a WII hub and build a new wheel.

    Stay away from Surly hubs! They suck
    Speed costs money, how fast can you afford to go?

  31. #31
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Climber999's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    720
    Quote Originally Posted by sean salach
    Assphinctersayswhat?
    What I meant is that I first place the BMX tool onto the FW and then clamp it into a vice (with the wheel, of course). Then the FW peels off the like a banana skin...
    Last edited by Climber999; 04-24-2010 at 03:53 PM.

  32. #32
    is buachail foighneach me
    Reputation: sean salach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    6,589
    Quote Originally Posted by Climber999
    What I meant is that I first place the BMX tool onto the FW and then clamp it (with the wheel, of course) in a vice. Then the FW comes off the like a banana skin...


  33. #33
    achiever
    Reputation: redwarrior's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    929
    It finally hit me what you guys are talking about to clamp the tool to the freewheel. Well, my axle is too short for that. If I ever get the patience, maybe I'll square up the edges on the freewheel and try again with a longer axle. For now though, I have a spider less crank set up and will be swapping ISAR chainrings to change the gearing.

  34. #34
    All 26.5" all the time!
    Reputation: Zanetti's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    1,855
    Add one more vote for the Paul hub and White Industries freewheel. I've got a WORD non-disc hub that is nearly ten years old and it just won't die. Original bearings and all.

    Freewheel removal is easy. I've never had a problem. Just use a longer M8 bolt to hold the freewheel tool in place. It wouldn't bother me to change freewheels every other week if I had to. It's just as easy as cassette cog removal IMO.

Members who have read this thread: 0

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2019 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.