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  1. #1
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    SS Cranks- WI or Middleburn or Surly or XT?

    The old crankset I do have are RF Turbine LPs (ISIS) but I don't trust the arms anymore. Anyway, let's move on to a new crankset f(175) for my first SS. Considering reliability first, is there a preference among these:

    White Industries
    Surly Mr. Whirlys
    XT 770s
    Middleburn SS

    Weight is a secondary consideration but stiffness and reliability are the top two. Also, if assuming a couple do not come with SS-specific rings, which do you recommend- Blackspire?

  2. #2
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    i am starting to feel threatened - your OCD may rival and to mine

    anyway, ENOs and Middleburn are cool...i owned sets of each. ENO sucks in regards to not being bashring friendly at all, so i would pass given your terrain. Middleburns with Phil Wood is a nice setup though. If you dont feel you need a bash and want one of these two, i would still go Middleburn UNO with RS7 arms...great setup

    Surly are beastly and i personally wouldnt want...just not my thing though i am sure they are fine

    XTs are far too pedestrian...pass

    Personally, i would highly recommend either the 15.g (like that a$$hole jimbo guy has) or i would actually as my first choice over all of them go with modified 960s from Shawnee, i.e.,

    PERFORMANCE XTR 960 MODIFIED FOR SINGLE SPEED $350
    INCLUDES CUSTOM PROFILING & MODIFICATION OF XTR 960 CRANK ARMS * NEW BLACKSPIRE MONO VELOS 32 OR 34T 102MM NO RAMP SINGLE SPEED CERAMIC COATED RING ** NEW SKF CRMO STEEL BEARINGS *** ALL HARDWARE, CUPS, RING BOLTS AND CRANK FIXING BOLT ARE CERAMIC COATED. CHOICE OF 2 COLORS PER SET FOR COATING

    You can get whatever colors coated you want, e.g., off white



    I dont have Shawnee-made version but do have 960s crudely machined to look like these Jones 960 cranks but yeah, the Shawnee would be *****in for sure! thats my 2 cents...

    Hope this helps clarify things

  3. #3
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    If you FOrget the SHIZZLE...

    LX for $99 bucks with BB at JensonUSA. I am tempted to buy a set just for spare. Bin the rings and buy a Surly or other steel SS ring and single chainring bolts. Funny how I am champion of the low-end all the sudden. I have two XT arm sets and one LX...the LX arms weighed 30 grams more when I checked. It is currently my "nicest" set because it has the least rock-dents and shoe-rub.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by canyonrat
    If you FOrget the SHIZZLE...

    LX for $99 bucks with BB at JensonUSA. I am tempted to buy a set just for spare. Bin the rings and buy a Surly or other steel SS ring and single chainring bolts. Funny how I am champion of the low-end all the sudden. I have two XT arm sets and one LX...the LX arms weighed 30 grams more when I checked. It is currently my "nicest" set because it has the least rock-dents and shoe-rub.
    if you knew Flyer you would understand LX has no chance. I am surprised he even listed XT

  5. #5
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    I am in a place where I fly First Class or fly stowaway in the cargo hold. I am going to look at the Middleburns and even do the unpredictable- go to Jenson and eye the LX.

  6. #6
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    I've had the WI and the XTR 960. Both were fine. I like the 960 a little more but the proprietary BCD is kinda annoying.

    This time around I'm getting the SLX double cranks and just using the arms with a singlespeed ring and a different bash.

  7. #7
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    I'm happy with my LX cranks. Picked em up second hand on the cheap and they haven't let me down. I will recommend a bashring if you end up with a Surly chainring. I have tweaked mine a couple of times, and bashed it back inline with a rock on the side of the trail.
    Sana Cruz 5010v2---Rigid Surly 1x1 650b---CrossCheck---Surly Pacer

  8. #8
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    WI now come with integrated bachguard if you want. It is very pretty.

    E
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

  9. #9
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    I wonder what the Q Factor is on the WI and Middleburn. Is that a bit OCD-ish as well? They both look good and the WI does come with a bash now as well. Any Q factor less than the XT is good.

    Square Taper or ISIS? I never had problems with my RF Turbine ISIS but it appears that people prefer Square Tapers. Why?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyer
    I wonder what the Q Factor is on the WI and Middleburn. Is that a bit OCD-ish as well? They both look good and the WI does come with a bash now as well. Any Q factor less than the XT is good.

    Square Taper or ISIS? I never had problems with my RF Turbine ISIS but it appears that people prefer Square Tapers. Why?
    oy...r u serious? u2 enel? the WI integrated bash is pathetic looking...make the whole of the crankset look REALLY retarded and entirey wrong IMHO.

    q(ueer) factor? are you sh!tting me Flyer? you need to get out more if you think that makes a bit of difference for you

    ISIS is ghey - you should get ISIS

  11. #11
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    Each mm of reduced QF increases my speed by .1 mph. Admittedly, I don't get out much. Work and riding...or showing guests more of Colorado. ISIS being ghey means nothing- please elaborate. Is it similar to rich people are ghey or similar to carbon is ghey or something else?

  12. #12
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    Shawnee 960 cranks

    I'm riding some Shawnee 960s (polished silver) and love them. RD at Shawnee sells the 102BCD rings as well so that's easy. You can always get him to ceramic coat some of ISAR's rings if you really want to stick it to the man. I wonder if the man ever notices...

    chain.jpg

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by donmeredith74
    I'm riding some Shawnee 960s (polished silver) and love them. RD at Shawnee sells the 102BCD rings as well so that's easy. You can always get him to ceramic coat some of ISAR's rings if you really want to stick it to the man. I wonder if the man ever notices...

    chain.jpg
    nice...i simply use blackspire on my 960s and am fine with me. my set is not Shawnee-ized however

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyer
    Each mm of reduced QF increases my speed by .1 mph. Admittedly, I don't get out much. Work and riding...or showing guests more of Colorado. ISIS being ghey means nothing- please elaborate. Is it similar to rich people are ghey or similar to carbon is ghey or something else?
    fair question

    i would ask Larry dawg...pretty sure he runs (or ran) ISIS with his Middleburns and cant remember which brand he went with so clearly some brands are good or larry wouldnt recommend / use himself.

    i have ZERO issue with square taper and love phil wood so if i were going middleburn i would go with Phil Wood stainless steel as it may very well be THE most bombproof setup. whether or not square taper is not stiff enough for some phat ass folks? dunno...i am not a heavy guy so zero issue. ISIS "should" be stiffer but bearings, in general, suck major ass

    do you feel you need/want a bash?

    in summary, you are ghey

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle

    in summary, you are ghey
    I gotta agree with this, just throw something together and ride it. You don't even know if you like single speeding yet and you are building a blingle-speed.
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

  16. #16
    CB2
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    Why don't you trust your Raceface cranks? That's exactly what I have on my bike now. I busted one set by not having the granny ring bolt holes filled, and wore out another pair of square tapers from many years of removing and replacing, but other than my own operator error, they've been sound.

    If it were me, I'd go with the Middleburns because I have a nice ISIS BB to use them with.

  17. #17
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    Okay, I may start out by using my RF Turbine ISIS with a Blackspire ring. In summary, I want you guys to appreciate how open I am to suggestions...unless of course, that is ghey too. By the way, I'm digging the silver Middleburns the most so far.

    Speaking of ghey- carrying a million 50 lb bags of river rock in the snow/mud is really ghey.

    Quote Originally Posted by Enel
    I gotta agree with this, just throw something together and ride it. You don't even know if you like single speeding yet and you are building a blingle-speed.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyer
    I wonder what the Q Factor is on the WI and Middleburn. Is that a bit OCD-ish as well? They both look good and the WI does come with a bash now as well. Any Q factor less than the XT is good.

    Square Taper or ISIS? I never had problems with my RF Turbine ISIS but it appears that people prefer Square Tapers. Why?
    approximate q factors
    enos with a square taper 113mmbb is abut 155mm
    middleburns with a 113mm square tapper are about 165mm
    xtr m960 crankset is about 169mm
    "forget kings...forget hadleys......they all have crap engagement. just run your bike fixed gear." - FoShizzle

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyer
    Okay, I may start out by using my RF Turbine ISIS with a Blackspire ring. In summary, I want you guys to appreciate how open I am to suggestions...unless of course, that is ghey too. By the way, I'm digging the silver Middleburns the most so far.

    Speaking of ghey- carrying a million 50 lb bags of river rock in the snow/mud is really ghey.
    Go with what you have...RF turbines are sweet, sweeter in square taper IMHO but again, ask Larry about which ISIS BB he recommends as there is a HUGE difference across ISIS BBs IMHO

    You will want to BLING out a bike knowing you if you like it so do this on the cheap (except maybe wheel set which can transfer over)...you did good by frame / fork so stick to the plan...BIATCH!!!!!

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kam
    approximate q factors
    enos with a square taper 113mmbb is abut 155mm
    middleburns with a 113mm square tapper are about 165mm
    xtr m960 crankset is about 169mm
    WTF KAM!?! dude, Flyer has OCD to the level of mine...if you add any more parameters for him to consider this will never end!

    according to your post, my 960 have too big a q factor so now i have to sell em and get the ghEyNOs

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    .you did good by frame / fork so stick to the plan...BIATCH!!!!! [/FONT]
    What did he end up with?
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

  22. #22
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    He started with a Scandal 29er and then called to chat about shipping details and was told there was just one Inbred left, with either one more batch coming or it being discontinued. Being easily swayed, he went with the last Inbred instead. However, the color sucks so he was also looking at RALs this morning.

    Quote Originally Posted by Enel
    What did he end up with?

  23. #23
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    Kam: Thanks for the qfactor info- appreciated and memorized.

    CB2: If I convince myself that really old RF Turbine Alu crankarms are not to be trusted, it becomes a safety factor in my head and I fine-tune the justification to make it sound reasonable. That is how I convince myself to buy all sorts of new stuff. I even convince others to make myself feel better about my own purchases. This make sense?

  24. #24
    Kam
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    no prob on the q-factor measurements....the longer this thread keeps going, the longer it keeps foshiz here and out of the other forums i visit

    oh, here is some ceramic coated xtr m960 porn. i cut/filed/polished the cranks a while back but they looked like crap after a few rides and i needed a new BB. got a king for them and had crazy8 tune (weight savings), ceramic coat (satin blue ti) and add a gun blue 32t ti ss ring.

    <img src=https://farm3.static.flickr.com/2448/4041218672_6dee7c8fbb_o.jpg>
    Last edited by Kam; 10-25-2009 at 10:56 PM.
    "forget kings...forget hadleys......they all have crap engagement. just run your bike fixed gear." - FoShizzle

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyer
    He started with a Scandal 29er and then called to chat about shipping details and was told there was just one Inbred left, with either one more batch coming or it being discontinued. Being easily swayed, he went with the last Inbred instead. However, the color sucks so he was also looking at RALs this morning.
    ??? didnt now you switched. dude, you are a schizo! and the color does NOT suck, seriously...retarded to pay a penny to change color, even for you. i love the color to this day...seriously, wait to get it built up

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kam
    no prob on the q-factor measurements....the longer this thread keeps going, the longer it keeps foshiz here and out of the other forums i visit

    oh, here is some ceramic coated xtr m960 porn. i cut/filed/polished the cranks a while back but they looked like crap after a few rides and i needed a new BB. got a king for them and had crazy8 tune (weight savings), ceramic coat (satin blue ti) and add a ISAR gun blue 32t ti ss ring.

    <img src=https://farm3.static.flickr.com/2448/4041218672_6dee7c8fbb_o.jpg>
    Kam, as i said in email that is PSICK! i love it...cant wait to see bike built up with that and other parts you mentioned!

  27. #27
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    1) That Brit guy forced me to switch. He was very persuasive.
    2) If I love it, I'll buy a Scandal as well but run one semi-gearie.
    3) You are still worse than me.
    4) I'll hold off on any PC decisions till I see the frame.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyer
    1) That Brit guy forced me to switch. He was very persuasive.
    2) If I love it, I'll buy a Scandal as well but run one semi-gearie.
    3) You are still worse than me.
    4) I'll hold off on any PC decisions till I see the frame.
    1) you may not be a Hambone, but you are worse than I am...I think???

    2) if you get the frame, based on an intent to do a budget build which is a good move, but go ahead and paint it which will virtually double the cost...you are retarded and definitely worse than me

    p.s. British accents scare me too, though less ghey than AUS accents fortunately

  29. #29
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    Yeah, I agree (this is becoming scary) with all your points, though in my defense, I have a friend with a PC hookup...AKA dirt cheap. I was hoping to prevent rust before it starts. It is a safety issue.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyer
    He started with a Scandal 29er and then called to chat about shipping details and was told there was just one Inbred left, with either one more batch coming or it being discontinued. Being easily swayed, he went with the last Inbred instead. However, the color sucks so he was also looking at RALs this morning.
    I was talking to Fo.....

    Sweet frame, even though it is Fo approved.
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enel
    I was talking to Fo.....

    Sweet frame, even though it is Fo approved.
    As I am sure you know, Flyer understood that...Flyer's OCD causes him to talk about himself in the third person. he is scary Enel, trust me

    when it started he was going scandal as he says, and apparently he switched which is cool too - the Inbred rocks

  32. #32
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    XTR 960? Not 970

    Why go for the XTR 960 and not the 970? Don't like the squared tapered look? Or is the 960 simply more easy to convert?

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by hchchch
    Why go for the XTR 960 and not the 970? Don't like the squared tapered look? Or is the 960 simply more easy to convert?
    no particular reason...perhaps a "novelty" thing. I love the 970s, have had 3 sets and they rock. Also better than the 960s in that a bashguard setup is seamless. Having said that, there is just something about these converted Jeff Jones now Shawnee-like 960s that rocks

    and i would be personally very happy with square taper to in all seriousness...i just fell into the 960s and found i love them and they have literally been zero maintenance. dont even think i needed to tighten em in the 2 years they have been on the bike and its my most ridden bike - they are great from my limited experience

  34. #34
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    Argh, I was hoping to build up the Inbred without Fo knowing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Enel
    I was talking to Fo.....

    Sweet frame, even though it is Fo approved.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyer
    Argh, I was hoping to build up the Inbred without Fo knowing.
    Fo Knows Everything

  36. #36
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    oh, here is some ceramic coated xtr m960 porn. and add a ISAR gun blue 32t ti ss ring.

    I wanted to clarify that the Ti ring is a Mattias Helloir'of Experimental Prototype which I carry in stock. I do have ISAR ceramic coated aluminum rings that I'm now using as the primary build ring on my cranks. I'm sure if there werre enough demand for ti ISAR can fill the bill. His rings are really nice quality.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazy8
    oh, here is some ceramic coated xtr m960 porn. and add a ISAR gun blue 32t ti ss ring.

    I wanted to clarify that the Ti ring is a Mattias Helloir'of Experimental Prototype which I carry in stock. I do have ISAR ceramic coated aluminum rings that I'm now using as the primary build ring on my cranks. I'm sure if there werre enough demand for ti ISAR can fill the bill. His rings are really nice quality.
    thanks for the info!

  38. #38
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    Why not a Surly crank with Chris King bottom bracket?
    Since reliability is the main concern (and not weight), the Surly seems like the perfect choice.

  39. #39
    CB2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thor29
    Why not a Surly crank with Chris King bottom bracket?
    Since reliability is the main concern (and not weight), the Surly seems like the perfect choice.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thor29
    Why not a Surly crank with Chris King bottom bracket?
    Since reliability is the main concern (and not weight), the Surly seems like the perfect choice.
    not sure why Surly would be any more reliable

  41. #41
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    CB2, you may want to do something about that warped ring. It must make pedaling a bit complicated.

    If I start out by using my RF Turbines (gives me more time to research this all-important topic and make the perfect decision) which ISIS BB would you guys recommend?

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyer
    CB2, you may want to do something about that warped ring. It must make pedaling a bit complicated.

    If I start out by using my RF Turbines (gives me more time to research this all-important topic and make the perfect decision) which ISIS BB would you guys recommend?
    i told your b!tch ass to call larry, you never listen.

    since you are too lazy, here is what larry would say, a la SKF ISIS BB

    http://forums.mtbr.com/showpost.php?...7&postcount=74

  43. #43
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    Larry is in Disney World- that guy ever work?

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyer
    Larry is in Disney World- that guy ever work?
    LOL...good point, i forgot! i sure hope the mailman doesnt leave my hubs outside the shop in his absence!

  45. #45
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    You're telling me...my frame & fork showed up at his shop today. That Beastro better be doing drive-bys to make sure my $hit isn't sitting out in the snow.

  46. #46
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    CB2 is that a prototype BioPace II ring and crank? Schweet.

  47. #47
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    I love my silver Middleburns. Very stiff. Running well so far on the Cranks Bros Cobalt ISIS BB, which can be had for ~$50 and has a 5-year warranty. We'll see. I've also heard the KMC ISIS BB is the best out there.

    mtbtandems.com is the place for Middleburns, btw.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    the WI integrated bash is pathetic looking...make the whole of the crankset look REALLY retarded and entirey wrong IMHO.
    Couldn't agree more... GREAT looking cranks. Horrible bashring.

  49. #49
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    +1 for Middleburn
    Just installed mine on my new SS, and love it so far. Also on a CB cobalt isis bb. We will see about that -- 5 yr warranty makes it pretty low risk.

    However, the $99 LX is a GREAT deal.

  50. #50
    CB2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyer
    CB2, you may want to do something about that warped ring. It must make pedaling a bit complicated.

    If I start out by using my RF Turbines (gives me more time to research this all-important topic and make the perfect decision) which ISIS BB would you guys recommend?
    I've been using a American Classic for about 4 months and it's been great. I know that's not very long, but it's been pretty frickin' wet. I chose it because the bearings are replaceable.

  51. #51
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    Anyone rocking these new WI cranks with bash guard?



    https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...s.php?id=31103

  52. #52
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    I hadnt seen those eno cranks w/bashguard before. Love the others but those made me puke in my mouth.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjmtb1
    I hadnt seen those eno cranks w/bashguard before. Love the others but those made me puke in my mouth.
    agreed....we already covered those abominations below in the thread and had concluded they had no business on a MTB, unless one has tried everything else to look retarded at the trailhead and as a last resort these would be acceptable I suppose

  54. #54
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    Thankfully, I don't need a bash for the SS. I'll talk to Mr. Mtnhighcyclery if he ever returns and see if I can get a nice ISIS BB. If not, it may have to be the Middleburns or WI cranks. I prefer the look of the Middleburns, I think.

  55. #55
    SS or Die
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyer
    The old crankset I do have are RF Turbine LPs (ISIS) but I don't trust the arms anymore. Anyway, let's move on to a new crankset f(175) for my first SS. Considering reliability first, is there a preference among these:

    White Industries
    Surly Mr. Whirlys
    XT 770s
    Middleburn SS

    Weight is a secondary consideration but stiffness and reliability are the top two. Also, if assuming a couple do not come with SS-specific rings, which do you recommend- Blackspire?
    I recently bought XTR M970's.....expensive you might say....I bought mine on CRC for $460Au and then sold the rings to a mate for $200 and in conclusion recieved a nice light, reliable crank for $260 brand new w/ BB

    The M970 cranks weigh 541 grams with crank bolt, 24 grams heavier than my cut and polished M960's but the 104BCD on the later provides more options for future rings etc

    If budget is a priority then get yourself some 960's second hand and cut 'em down like many others have here.
    "Be the Gear..."

  56. #56
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    Coming into this discussion late, but I've got Middleburn RS8 cranks and an Uno ring on an SKF FR600 series ISIS BB and the system has been flawless for me for over 4 years now. Recently moved the cranks/BB across to my new Inbred frame.

  57. #57
    Kam
    Kam is offline
    A hopped on pop.
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Muz R-
    The M970 cranks weigh 541 grams with crank bolt, 24 grams heavier than my cut and polished M960's but the 104BCD on the later provides more options for future rings etc

    i weighed my cut, filed and ceramic coated m960 crankset the other day.

    175mm m960 cranks with the nondrive side pinch bolts and axle cap and ti 32t chainring/shimano chainring bolts from crazy8, weight was 539 grams. my blue king bb was 103 grams. total is 642 grams.

    the square middleburn uno cranks with 32t hardcoat ring was 505 grams. 113 stainless phil wood bb was 250 grams and the crankbolts were about 35 grams for the pair (cheap, steel ones). total is 790 grams.

    i'll get a couple of good rides in on the crank tomorrow and saturday and take a few pics later next week.
    "forget kings...forget hadleys......they all have crap engagement. just run your bike fixed gear." - FoShizzle

  58. #58
    Neg reppers r my biatches
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kam
    i weighed my cut, filed and ceramic coated m960 crankset the other day.

    175mm m960 cranks with the nondrive side pinch bolts and axle cap and ti 32t chainring/shimano chainring bolts from crazy8, weight was 539 grams. my blue king bb was 103 grams. total is 642 grams.

    the square middleburn uno cranks with 32t hardcoat ring was 505 grams. 113 stainless phil wood bb was 250 grams and the crankbolts were about 35 grams for the pair (cheap, steel ones). total is 790 grams.

    i'll get a couple of good rides in on the crank tomorrow and saturday and take a few pics later next week.
    big deal you weight weenie...my Hammerschmidt weighs 1623 grams so suck on that!

  59. #59
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    Any idea what size bottom bracket the Inbred calls for- 68m shell and 113 length?

  60. #60
    Neg reppers r my biatches
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyer
    Any idea what size bottom bracket the Inbred calls for- 68m shell and 113 length?
    yes, 68mm shell

    depends on cranks for physical BB size/width, though a chainline of 50mm is target - most cranks i imagine will be 113mm

  61. #61
    Ovaries on the Outside
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    is "ghey" homophobic?

    I like the eno with the bashguard. On my bike it would never get scratched.

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