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  1. #1
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    Square taper BBs?

    Did some searches but no mention of the 4th BB choice below. For my build, I'm heavily leaning toward the ENO cranks meaning I need a sq. taper BB. I've heard of the Phil, RF, and Shimano UN72 (XT) BBs. I've heard the Phil is pricey, the RF is ~$45 and the Shimano is $20. There is also a BB by ActionTec. http://www.cambriabike.com/shopdispl...cts.asp?page=1

    Anyone know anything about them (ActionTec)?

    I haven't had a problem with ISIS yet on my geared rig but all the pics I've seen of snapped Truvativ and RF cranks, and stories of blown ISIS BBs has me thinking tried and true is the way to go. I'm nervously awaiting my ISIS BB to go.

    If Actiontec isn't a consideration and I'm not willing to spend the cash on a Phil, should I buy 2 shimano for the price of 1 RF, or is the Raceface square taper the way to go?

    Thanks!
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  2. #2
    Steamroller
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    Nashbar has a house brand BB

    It's real cheap, but I'd say most likely you will get what you pay for.
    Two Wheeled and Too Big

  3. #3
    Neg reppers r my biatches
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    Quote Originally Posted by zanq
    Did some searches but no mention of the 4th BB choice below. For my build, I'm heavily leaning toward the ENO cranks meaning I need a sq. taper BB. I've heard of the Phil, RF, and Shimano UN72 (XT) BBs. I've heard the Phil is pricey, the RF is ~$45 and the Shimano is $20. There is also a BB by ActionTec. http://www.cambriabike.com/shopdispl...cts.asp?page=1

    Anyone know anything about them (ActionTec)?

    I haven't had a problem with ISIS yet on my geared rig but all the pics I've seen of snapped Truvativ and RF cranks, and stories of blown ISIS BBs has me thinking tried and true is the way to go. I'm nervously awaiting my ISIS BB to go.

    If Actiontec isn't a consideration and I'm not willing to spend the cash on a Phil, should I buy 2 shimano for the price of 1 RF, or is the Raceface square taper the way to go?

    Thanks!
    if you are going with the ENO, go for the Phil Woods....at least that is what I am doing. It seems a shame to put forth such a beautiful crankset and spoil it with anything less than Phil......after all, it is only money we don't have

    cheers

  4. #4
    Bikes not Bombs.....
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    Eat PBJ's for a month and get the Phil's.....

    They really are that darn good.....

    JS
    Thanks to all of you for your friendships on this board..... -

  5. #5
    Hit The Road Cyclery
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    Phil BB pay for themselves in the long run. In the time it takes to burn through 4 or 5 cheap BB's you're Phil Wood will just be breaking in . I've had the same one on my Bontrager since I bought it in '92, still going strong.

  6. #6
    Te mortuo heres tibi sim?
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    not to dissent from the Phil love session, but.....

    i've got two Action-Tec (about 5 years old) ti, two Race Face Taperloc ti, and one Real ti bb on various bikes in the stable. oh, and one steel WTB Grease Guard bb. the newest is about a year old. no problems. the oldest (wtb) is about 7 years old.

    nooooo, problems with any of them.

    if you are looking for more budget minded, but still good stuff, i'd go for one of the Race Face sets. ti if you are a light/smooth rider, steel if otherwise.
    Last edited by scrublover; 05-10-2005 at 03:16 AM. Reason: oops; reply meant for the original poster
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  7. #7
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    Gotta Pile On This One

    I have PW on all three of my bikes. I'm good about maintenance, except when it comes to the BB!! I know they are more expensive, but the number of $$ is quite small. You can get a SS PW BB with rings and installation tools for about $100. I have the Ti spindle version on two of the three, and have noticed no flex, despite my 180 lbs of lard a$$. Brent at PW is amazing in the customr support area. I am not considering the thought of going with any BB set-up other than square taper until PS makes it (although I have to admit that I would likely try a CK or Hadley if they were developed).
    MTBDad
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  8. #8
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    I rode the same ActionTec BB from 91 to 02 on 3 different bikes... no big problems there... the only thing I did was to change the bearings once... the BB did what it should, and the only negative is that it is a bit more complicated to fit due to the special tool you need... but not much...

  9. #9
    mtbr member
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Jerry
    They really are that darn good.....

    JS
    Looks like I will be doing PB&J and going with Phil. I'm not one to spend money on cheap stuff just to have to replace it later. If Phil is as good as everyone says, why not go with a good thing! Started with PB&J and bike commuting today!
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  10. #10
    The man who fell to earth
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    I don't want to sound boring or unfashionable, but an XT BB is of excellent quality, very durable and obviously very affordable. They usually last me a good two seasons or more (in mud and muck), most other people longer. I've never owned a Phil, and although I know they're good, I'm very skeptical a PW will outlast an XT by a factor of five (considering you could buy 5 or more XT's for the price of a single Phil) - use science and do the math.


    Quote Originally Posted by zanq
    Looks like I will be doing PB&J and going with Phil. I'm not one to spend money on cheap stuff just to have to replace it later. If Phil is as good as everyone says, why not go with a good thing! Started with PB&J and bike commuting today!

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy-Stardust
    I'm very skeptical a PW will outlast an XT by a factor of five (considering you could buy 5 or more XT's for the price of a single Phil) - use science and do the math.
    That's just it, and why I'm asking the question. At the moment I run a Raceface Evolve XC ISIS BB on the gearie (no problems yet), I think a UN52 square taper on a SS that gets light trail and commuter use (no problems yet, but doesn't see hard use), and an Ultegra Octalink on my roadie (20 miles on it, too new to determine). I have no experience with XT level BBs.

    The other thing to consider is waste, shipping charges and down time. In order to get the cheapest price on Shimano BBs, it will have to be mail order. With el cheapo shipping being no less than $5, 5 Shimano BBs/1 PW BB just became 4/1 over the lifetime of a PW. I'm not some left wing hippie tree hugger, but I recycle and do my part to reduce waste in a world of planned obsolesence and disposable products. I'd feel better knowing there aren't 4 BBs in the landfill 10 yrs. from now if I could still be using the BB I purchase tomorrow.

    I wasn't sure if a $20 UN72 could come close to equalling a $100 Phil, but you've stated you get 2+ yrs. with Shimano while Anomie is going on 13+ yrs. with Phil. This pretty much answers my question right there. This is the science, math and cost/return benefit I have applied and calculated.
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  12. #12
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    However, if:

    5XT = 1PW

    5[XT + Maintenance] ? PW + Maintenance
    It ain't easy being human.

  13. #13
    Steel and teeth.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy-Stardust
    I'm very skeptical a PW will outlast an XT by a factor of five (considering you could buy 5 or more XT's for the price of a single Phil) - use science and do the math.
    They do, no questions asked.

    I have had many different BB's, but the two bikes I have with Phil BB's are still running like butter, one that is working on 11 years. As for maintenance, I hate to say it, but I have done little to either. They simply haven't needed it. The XT BB's I have had definitely did the job, but
    if I didn't break them, some needed to be replaced in as little as a year of use.

    Phil BB's are surely expensive... but their reputation is unwavering. How can one be skeptical of that?

    In the end, I'll bet it is personal experience. i.e. if you have trouble with XT BB's, you might invest in a Phil, Race Face, etc. If you don't have trouble with XT, maybe it isn't worth it.

    b1umb0y
    Last edited by b1umb0y; 05-10-2005 at 08:25 AM.

  14. #14
    formerly Giantxc
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    I have UN72's or UN73's on all of my bikes, at least one of which is 5 or 6 years old and I've never had a problem with their operation. The old one has probably been on 3 or 4 different bikes during its lifetime (but in constant use) and now resides on my commuter which is used year round regardless of the conditions (i.e much rain and snow use).

    The cartridge itself has never required any maintence in my experience. Occassional (if it starts to creek), however, you do need to pull it out and relube the BB shell with anti-seize. The only downside is the lockring that goes on the non-drive side. In the past it was metal, now its plastic and in my opinion too easy to crack.

    I'd love a Phil, but can't see any reason to buy it when my Shimano's work just find and can be found for around $20 these days.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy-Stardust
    I don't want to sound boring or unfashionable, but an XT BB is of excellent quality, very durable and obviously very affordable. They usually last me a good two seasons or more (in mud and muck), most other people longer. I've never owned a Phil, and although I know they're good, I'm very skeptical a PW will outlast an XT by a factor of five (considering you could buy 5 or more XT's for the price of a single Phil) - use science and do the math.
    I've owned one phil bb, which still works, and about 5 shimano bb's in the last 12 years and have two left in the parts box that still work. In that period I've gone through 3 race face (garbage) and one of the new xtr thru axle outboard bb (also garbage, nice when it works). I now have a phil ti on my ss, put it in and forget about it. Not to mention it feels stiffer than the shimano's.

    Both give a lot of bang for your buck.

    e

  16. #16
    The man who fell to earth
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    Quote Originally Posted by donkekus
    However, if: 5XT = 1PW 5[XT + Maintenance] ? PW + Maintenance
    Yeah but that's assuming a PW lifespan is = 5XT, please provide non-anecdotal evidence of that assumption before mathematically asserting that 5XT = 1PW (which I'm very skeptical of btw)

    Furthermore, how many people really ride and stick with only one MB-ing frame for ten years or even five years? Most enthusiasts (i.e. potential PW customers) I know of in that timeframe will either sell off their old frame and replace it with a newer one (and different one), and/or snap their old frame and replace it with a newer (and different) one, and/or add more (and different) frames to the mix over time and/or desire to swap/mix components (including BB's and cranks) around from various frames to other various frames. And then it's certainly not uncommon for the newer/alternate frames to call for a different BB spacing/widths...so assuming you've only got 1 PW and not 5 XT's (of varying widths), you're potentially put into another inflexible situation again. And not only that, but if you wish to have more than one bike trail/roadworthy at the same time, having only 1 PW means it's time to get another BB for each rideable bike. All of these situations wouldn't arise if you had 5 (or even more!) instead of 1. And again, it's erroneous to assume that since the XT is 1/5th the price of a PW, it's 1/5th as durable or 1/5th "as good".

    Lastly, I'm fairly confident the various splined crank interface's shortcomings and problems will likely be solved in 5-10 years time; making it a much more attractive option then it is now. And conisdering how fast MB tech is evolving it wouldn't surprise me if another BB shell diam/standard/dimension becomes the norm in that same timeframe. Meaning that some of the more $$ square taper hotstuff today will likely end up in the bargain bin tomorrow, again making a much more reasonably priced, but possibly somewhat shorter lived XT BB, a better overall option (IMO).

  17. #17
    Steel and teeth.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy-Stardust
    Please provide non-anecdotal evidence of that assumption before mathematically asserting that 5XT = 1PW (which I'm very skeptical of btw)...
    I am fairly certain the non-anecdotal evidence does not exist (who wants to provide the money needed to quantify this innocuous and probably widely-varied 'fact'?), but the 'experience' seems to be speaking for itself.

    If you know that you go through XT-grade BB's quickly, it might be in your best interest to invest in a better BB.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy-Stardust
    ...Meaning that some of the more $$ square taper hotstuff today will likely end up in the bargain bin tomorrow, again making a much more reasonably priced, but possibly somewhat shorter lived XT BB, a better overall option (IMO).
    They've lasted this long haven't they?

    b1umb0y

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by escamillo
    I've owned one phil bb, which still works, and about 5 shimano bb's in the last 12 years and have two left in the parts box that still work. In that period I've gone through 3 race face (garbage) and one of the new xtr thru axle outboard bb (also garbage, nice when it works). I now have a phil ti on my ss, put it in and forget about it. Not to mention it feels stiffer than the shimano's.

    Both give a lot of bang for your buck.

    e
    I agree on the raceface, I broke the taperlocks on my 3rd ride when new.
    I went back to the un72 but those only last about 2 years, after reading some of the comments on the phil wood, I'm pretty much sold on getting one of those.
    Anyone know were to get the phil wood?

    CrAZy aNNdY
    1man 1gear 1speed

  19. #19
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    Un 72

    I ride UN 72s on both my geared and SS bikes. At 205 lbs I have yet to have one fail on me. They've both got a couple years worth of riding on them, both mountain and urban commuting. For the money, they're a steal.
    29er Fan!

  20. #20
    Neg reppers r my biatches
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    Quote Originally Posted by cRasHmAstER
    I agree on the raceface, I broke the taperlocks on my 3rd ride when new.
    I went back to the un72 but those only last about 2 years, after reading some of the comments on the phil wood, I'm pretty much sold on getting one of those.
    Anyone know were to get the phil wood?

    CrAZy aNNdY
    I pretty much get everything from Larry at www.mtnhighcyclery.com, to include Phil Wood stuff.

    cheers

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potential Roadkill
    I ride UN 72s on both my geared and SS bikes. At 205 lbs I have yet to have one fail on me. They've both got a couple years worth of riding on them, both mountain and urban commuting. For the money, they're a steal.

    wherd!!! i have even rocked the cheaper sh!tmanos for years of heavy abuse! but then i don't have king or paul anything, my pockets just ain't that deep.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy-Stardust
    Yeah but that's assuming a PW lifespan is = 5XT, please provide non-anecdotal evidence of that assumption before mathematically asserting that 5XT = 1PW (which I'm very skeptical of btw)
    Well, you assert that your current burn rate of an XT BB is 2 yrs. It's been stated above that someone is rolling strong after 13 yrs. on a PW. Everyone's results may vary, but this is where the 5XT:1PW comparison is being drawn. I'm going 5 yrs. with the UN52 I mentioned above, but it's on a rigid 1992 Schwinn that sees infrequent use.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy-Stardust
    Furthermore, how many people really ride and stick with only one MB-ing frame for ten years or even five years?

    I do. My frames are steel (long fatigue life), well cared for and am not one to get tired with what I have, or chase the next fad. I did go with ISIS on one rig. Knowing what I do now, I would have stayed with square taper but I'm not going to ditch my current setup and take a loss until I have a failure. I like to spend the money to do something correctly once; it saves time, effort and money in the long run.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy-Stardust
    Lastly, I'm fairly confident the various splined crank interface's shortcomings and problems will likely be solved in 5-10 years time; making it a much more attractive option then it is now.
    The people at Chris King are pretty capable individuals, they've arguably developed the best headset money can buy, as well as hubs. They are reported to be attempting a splined BB, but it has been taking a long time. I take that as an indication that there are serious technical hurdles still to overcome to make a quality product. But the industry has already moved on to the next thing, 2-piece crank assemblies with outboard bearings. Yet square taper still exists. The more I read, hear and see, I predict square taper will be around for a long time to come.

    Plus, I'd rather put my money in the pocket of another American worker and not send it to Japan.
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  23. #23
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    Why not...

    Zanq:

    Get the XT or ActionTec and spend the extra money on something you will acutally feel during a ride! I would imagine you could spring for some nice tires with the price difference? Sorry, just my Midwestern practicalness coming out here.

    Be sure you measure the Bottom Bracket properly as the ENO takes an extra wide spindle compared to most cranks. I think something in the order of 7-9mm extra width is required over a RaceFace for instance.

    I really like the ENO cranks. The seem much stiffer than the RaceFace's I was running.

    Good luck on the build, hope to see some pics of the new ride soon!

    MC





    Quote Originally Posted by zanq
    Did some searches but no mention of the 4th BB choice below. For my build, I'm heavily leaning toward the ENO cranks meaning I need a sq. taper BB. I've heard of the Phil, RF, and Shimano UN72 (XT) BBs. I've heard the Phil is pricey, the RF is ~$45 and the Shimano is $20. There is also a BB by ActionTec. http://www.cambriabike.com/shopdispl...cts.asp?page=1

    Anyone know anything about them (ActionTec)?

    I haven't had a problem with ISIS yet on my geared rig but all the pics I've seen of snapped Truvativ and RF cranks, and stories of blown ISIS BBs has me thinking tried and true is the way to go. I'm nervously awaiting my ISIS BB to go.

    If Actiontec isn't a consideration and I'm not willing to spend the cash on a Phil, should I buy 2 shimano for the price of 1 RF, or is the Raceface square taper the way to go?

    Thanks!

  24. #24
    The man who fell to earth
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    Zanq, It sounds like you've already made up your mind to get the phil BB, so no need to explain any further. Based on your post I thought you were looking for input/opinions on the matter, sorry if mine offended you or otherwise contradicted the choice you were already leaning toward. I'll follow up on some of your comments here and then bow out as I don't think you're really interested in what I have to say on this issue

    Well, you assert that your current burn rate of an XT BB is 2 yrs.

    No, I stated that my XT square taper BBs usually last "at least" 2 years, and that 2 years is a solid usage cycle. i.e. the BB is used on a singular dedicated bike (no other bikes are used to distribute/lessen/defer wear) that is ridden hard under wet, muddy, horrendous conditions including 2 foot drops, pummeling over roots at 20 mph, tons of log scrapes and more than a few crashes (I'm the man who fell to earth, after all). I'm not a huckster, but I do weigh 185 lbs (give or take a poop), and that 2+ years is an honest/no exaggeration/I ride my bike alot/real world duration under brutal/accelerated wear conditions. That's why I said most people should get more time out of them than I did, and many report doing just that; including yourself.

    It's been stated above that someone is rolling strong after 13 yrs on a PW.

    I don't want to go out on a limb here and prognosticate without proof, but I will anyway: there is absolutely no way that a Phil Wood or any BB would survive 13 straight years of the kind of abuse I specify above.


    Everyone's results may vary, but this is where the 5XT:1PW comparison is being drawn.

    It's completely unscientific to cherry pick an anecdotal XT minimum from one person (2 years), and an anecdotal PW maximum from another person (13 years) and then extrapolate some kind of definitive cost/value/quality/utility cycle conclusion from it.

    I'm going 5 yrs. with the UN52 I mentioned above, but it's on a rigid 1992 Schwinn that sees infrequent use.

    UN52 is LX grade, still good stuff, but XT is a step up. You might score even better results with a UN72 (plus a bit lighter). Still, five years and counting sounds good to me?

    [Furthermore, how many people really ride and stick with only one MB-ing frame for ten years or even five years?]

    I do. My frames are steel (long fatigue life), well cared for and am not one to get tired with what I have, or chase the next fad.


    Please re-read the original full quote of what I said. Your response concerning a plural "bikes" indicates you missed what I meant here.


    I did go with ISIS on one rig. Knowing what I do now, I would have stayed with square taper but I'm not going to ditch my current setup and take a loss until I have a failure. I like to spend the money to do something correctly once; it saves time, effort and money in the long run.

    Sounds like good policy, and I agree with you: ISIS sucks.

    Yet square taper still exists. The more I read, hear and see, I predict square taper will be around for a long time to come.

    I predict it will still be around for years to come too. But I believe eventually it will be offered mostly as a retro offering for those wishing to keep old bikes going and not really because it offers superior overall performance to what modern offerings will provide. I believe PW, ENO, King and other quality brands are just waiting to make splined offerings themselves when they're convinced the bearing technology has finally matured, which I think it will within a few years. Today the square taper is still the best overall choice for BB selection, but I don't always believe that will be the case. They're working hard and have been working hard on improved crank/BB systems, and although I view the first five years of them as a failure (due to crappy durability), there is merit to the splined interface's design philosophy. Plus they're also building lighter and stiffer crank arms all the time, which are unlikely to be offered in square taper in the future. The square taper has had one hell of a good run, but it won't last forever.


    Plus, I'd rather put my money in the pocket of another American worker and not send it to Japan.

    Well, the dealer (online or local) does get a significant cut of the purchase price, plus the Phil has Swiss bearings, plus I love the Japanese!

    Good luck with your Phil, they are extremely sweet BB's.
    Last edited by Ziggy-Stardust; 05-10-2005 at 05:40 PM.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by cRasHmAstER
    Anyone know were to get the phil wood?
    If a local LBS doesn't carry them you can alway call up Brent (a really nice guy) @ phil W and buy direct. He'll also help you with the right size so have crank info in hand.

    e

  26. #26
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    ∂amn, people getting down on some Math!

    Let's put it this way, would you rather spend a bit more and buy from a good, honest, human being i.e. Brent @ PW?

    Or, spend a bit less and get it from a Walmart of Bikes store i.e. Supergo, etc.?

    You can find PW BBs for a decent price online.

    Go for Phil, contribute to American Industry (it needs your help).
    It ain't easy being human.

  27. #27
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    I posed my initial question to extract compelling evidence (or lack thereof) about one product or the other, and I believe I have accomplished my goal. I thank you for your input and appreciate your time. I think we're approaching topic from 2 opposite ends of the spectra. You appear to be of the school to buy cheap and be willing to replace often. I come from the angle that I want quality and if at all possible, do it right once even if it means a higher cost. Through reponses here and elsewhere, 5-6 years seems to the documented extent to which the XT has lived with regular use, where as the Phil is 13 yrs. Since my post, I have also read about dramatic failures and injuries with the XT BB. The XT gets a review rating of 3.xx where the Phil get a 4.67. The number of reviews isn't equal, but based on what I've read I don't know that the XT will be catching up.

    I did take your little quip of "use science and do the math" to be a little bit of a snipe at my avatar. I work in science and business, and can tell you that if I have a choice to purchase Device A and Device B, both do the exact same thing, but Device B is more expensive yet has better customer support, has a "potentially" less down time and longer life, I'm probably going to be approved to buy Devise B. Down time equals money, effort, inconvenience and headaches. I feel this is a very accurate parallel to what we are discussing here. Science is asking a question, collecting data and making a decision based on the data. This is a marriage of both science and business, since ultimately we all want good return on investment.

    Shimano, in my mind, seems to use to the "planned obsolesence in a disposable world" philosophy. The Shimano Ultegra shifters on my road bike do not appear to be serviceable, whereas Campy has an available parts list to service a lot on their shifters, but a full Campy build kit was $1000 more than shimano. I simply couldn't afford it. I can afford $100 more for a Phil if it means less trouble.

    I guess it all boils down to what you are willing to deal with. My time is precious and seek to eliminate inconvenience. Based on the feedback and reviews, if a $20 BB comes with the potential of a shorter life (and increased material in the landfill), profits going overseas and failure leading to injury, I'll dig deeper for what I feel is the better option.

    To comment on the ActionTec, at $90 it isn't much cheaper than the Phil and it gets mediocre reviews.

    Thank you again for the debate and others for your feedback and recommendations. Initially I had sticker shock with the Phil but after reading, thinking and my tendency to keep and maintain my equipment for a very long time, the investment will be worth it. Good riding!
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  28. #28
    TRAIL KUBUKI CORNDOGGER
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    Been hammering my 180 ENOs on an XT BB and think Phil BB's are doofuses who have too much money on their hands. Buy the XT and use the leftover money to buy a bunch of beer and have a good time.
    Nobody cares what kind of bike you ride.

  29. #29
    mtbr member
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    eeep! thats good.

    [i like phil stuff ++ but use an xt bb. its cabbaged after 6 months invariably. solid use 5 months, clicks for one, then binned.

    maybe i ought to look at phil...

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwistedCrank
    Been hammering my 180 ENOs on an XT BB and think Phil BB's are doofuses who have too much money on their hands. Buy the XT and use the leftover money to buy a bunch of beer and have a good time.
    Been hammering for how long and how long do you expect them to last under this use?
    Ventana El Rey - 3x9
    Schwinn High Plains w/ drop bars - 3x8
    Surly Ogre - Alfine 8/SS

  31. #31
    TRAIL KUBUKI CORNDOGGER
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    Quote Originally Posted by zanq
    Been hammering for how long and how long do you expect them to last under this use?
    I'm on my second XT BB since September of 2002. Been on the ENOs for 2 months.
    Nobody cares what kind of bike you ride.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by zanq
    Shimano, in my mind, seems to use to the "planned obsolesence in a disposable world" philosophy. The Shimano Ultegra shifters on my road bike do not appear to be serviceable, whereas Campy has an available parts list to service a lot on their shifters, but a full Campy build kit was $1000 more than shimano. I simply couldn't afford it. I can afford $100 more for a Phil if it means less trouble.

    I guess it all boils down to what you are willing to deal with. My time is precious and seek to eliminate inconvenience. Based on the feedback and reviews, if a $20 BB comes with the potential of a shorter life (and increased material in the landfill), profits going overseas and failure leading to injury, I'll dig deeper for what I feel is the better option.
    I have heard that the new range of Shimano, or actually many other things as well, are like what you said "planned obsolesence ..." but the older range of M900 XTR (1992-1995) are almost bullet proof IMHO. I am still running their cantis, shifters, cranks, and BBs.

    However, I have extremely good experiences with the Shimano XT and XTR level square taper bottom brackets. Mine is 7 (?) years old, and still going strong. I am 170lbs. Admittedly I do not ride as much or as hard as I want to. My father-in-law subjects his steel commuter frame and UN72 to 50km a day almost everyday through the 4 seasons including mud, salt, grit and what have you for 11 years. It finally died last month. It is a helluva testimony as far as I am concerned. Btw, his version of cleaning up means getting some motor oil on a rag and cleaning the chain with that. Nothing else. He is 170lbs as well and his commute brings him through the forest.

    If cost is not an issue, sure go for Phil Wood, but I am very skeptical that anything will last 5x a UN72. Reviews are excellent for them.

    fishy

  33. #33
    Bikes not Bombs.....
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    Yeah... right.....

    Quote Originally Posted by TwistedCrank
    Been hammering my 180 ENOs on an XT BB and think Phil BB's are doofuses who have too much money on their hands. Buy the XT and use the leftover money to buy a bunch of beer and have a good time.
    This is usually the comment we get from someone earning 6.25 an hour.

    Right, buy the beer, get a hang over, then when your BB falls apart, remember the hang over, roll over and wish you would have bought something better.

    Buy American, support your local union and all that....

    Sorry for the rant, but really, why dis buyers of quality parts.......

    -JS-
    Thanks to all of you for your friendships on this board..... -

  34. #34
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    Does anyone still make BB's with loose bearings? I love those. If they get nasty, just take them apart and clean 'em. They're smoother than cartridge bearing BBs, and should last a long time. If the bearings wear out, get new ones for $0.75 each.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Jerry

    Sorry for the rant, but really, why dis buyers of quality parts.......

    -JS-
    Cos I like to poke people. Consider yourself poked.
    Nobody cares what kind of bike you ride.

  36. #36
    Bikes not Bombs.....
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    OK... you got me....

    Quote Originally Posted by TwistedCrank
    Cos I like to poke people. Consider yourself poked.

    Touche' - I usually don't make comments like that, but....I had a moment of weakness

    Sorry

    -JS-
    Thanks to all of you for your friendships on this board..... -

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Jerry
    Touche' - I usually don't make comments like that, but....I had a moment of weakness

    Sorry

    -JS-
    No problem bro. I got my own share of quality bits on the bike. Case in point - ENO cranks. The great thing about them is that they ride even better than they look. Y'alls might even convince me about the Phill BB.
    Nobody cares what kind of bike you ride.

  38. #38
    Whatever! Just crash it!
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    I'm using a 7 year old action tec with my ENO cranks on my monkey right now. It works well, but it creaks when it gets wet and dries out. Every ti bb that I've ever ridden does this. I just take the cranks off, clean the spindle and cranks, then put it all back together agian.

    The phil is a no brainer. Install it, forget it. I have an 18 year old phil BB on my road bike. It is still as smooth as it ever was.

    Peter
    If a man talks dirty to a woman, it's sexual harassment. If a woman talks dirty to a man, it's $3.95 per minute.

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