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Thread: Spot - WTF?

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    Spot - WTF?

    So I got a 1Fg a little over 2 years ago. Got the one with the Spot rear hub.

    The axle broke on the rear hub before Thanksgiving. Went down to my LBS and had them contact Spot about getting a replacement. It is obviously out of warranty, so I'm willing to pay for another hollow aluminum axle. LBS says it'll be at least a week. Understandable given the holiday. Over the course of the next 3 weeks, the rep at Spot tells my LBS on 2-3 occassions that it is going on the machine the next day. Still, no axle. So I call the guy my LBS has been talking to last Tuesday (20th). He says he'll check with his supplier and get back to me. Gets back same day and says his supplier says the axle will be machined the next day (heard that before a few times). He said he had an axle sitting around that he could priority mail (at this point good customer service would dictate overnight) to my LBS. I'm desparate, so I say please do it. Today is the 28th, no axle arrived. I called Spot - they are on vacation this whole week.

    Anyone else have dealings with these folks? I can't help but feeling they are just f'ing with me and have no intention of getting me the part I need. I'm trying not to go ballistic, but this is some of the worst customer service I have had in quite some time.

    So is it time to go postal on these folks, or should I just chill? Does it really take over a week for priority mail to go from Washington state to Pennsylvania?

    Not digging riding my son's geared bike. Want to get back on the SS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dtownmtb
    So

    The axle broke on the rear hub before Thanksgiving. Went down to my LBS and had them contact Spot about getting a replacement. It is obviously out of warranty, so I'm willing to pay for another hollow aluminum axle. LBS says it'll be at least a week. Understandable given the holiday. Over the course of the next 3 weeks, the rep at Spot tells my LBS on 2-3 occassions that it is going on the machine the next day. Still, no axle. So I call the guy my LBS has been talking to last Tuesday (20th). He says he'll check with his supplier and get back to me. Gets back same day and says his supplier says the axle will be machined the next day (heard that before a few times). He said he had an axle sitting around that he could priority mail (at this point good customer service would dictate overnight) to my LBS. I'm desparate, so I say please do it. Today is the 28th, no axle arrived. I called Spot - they are on vacation this whole week.

    Sounds like someone seriously dropped the ball on shipping the in-stock axle. Wonder why they didn't just send that one in the first place, instead of telling stories about machining up a new one. Moreover, I wonder why they have no backstock of axles in the first place. I think you're justified in being pissed -- not sure if going ballistic will help. Riding that geary probably couldn't make your mood any worse though!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fixintogo
    Sounds like someone seriously dropped the ball on shipping the in-stock axle. Wonder why they didn't just send that one in the first place, instead of telling stories about machining up a new one. Moreover, I wonder why they have no backstock of axles in the first place. I think you're justified in being pissed -- not sure if going ballistic will help. Riding that geary probably couldn't make your mood any worse though!
    On this morning's ride (yeah, some of us took the week off), I tried to do this tough climb in a really low gear. Got nowhere. The SS forces me to do it in a much higher gear, which actually works better. F'ing gears.

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    Never trust your LBS to order something you need urgently.....

    Before you chew out spot I would be certain that your LBS did not just forget to order your axle. It is not that uncommon a story.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrkie
    Never trust your LBS to order something you need urgently.....

    Before you chew out spot I would be certain that your LBS did not just forget to order your axle. It is not that uncommon a story.
    No, I'm very tight with the LBS. He is actually now going after Cannondale to see if they can send me a wheel or something till this gets sorted out.

  6. #6
    DiscoCowboy
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    I've heard things like this before...

    about Spot, that and that the hubs were less than stellar. I have never owned or had any personal dealings with them so I can't speak from personal experience though.

    Have you thought about getting a new rear hub that is easier to service and uses standard parts? Surly's are bombproof and everything is readily available through QBP. I also like the Paul Disk WORD hubs, little more money, but nicer stuff.

    Good Luck,
    -j


    Quote Originally Posted by dtownmtb
    So I got a 1Fg a little over 2 years ago. Got the one with the Spot rear hub.

    The axle broke on the rear hub before Thanksgiving. Went down to my LBS and had them contact Spot about getting a replacement. It is obviously out of warranty, so I'm willing to pay for another hollow aluminum axle. LBS says it'll be at least a week. Understandable given the holiday. Over the course of the next 3 weeks, the rep at Spot tells my LBS on 2-3 occassions that it is going on the machine the next day. Still, no axle. So I call the guy my LBS has been talking to last Tuesday (20th). He says he'll check with his supplier and get back to me. Gets back same day and says his supplier says the axle will be machined the next day (heard that before a few times). He said he had an axle sitting around that he could priority mail (at this point good customer service would dictate overnight) to my LBS. I'm desparate, so I say please do it. Today is the 28th, no axle arrived. I called Spot - they are on vacation this whole week.

    Anyone else have dealings with these folks? I can't help but feeling they are just f'ing with me and have no intention of getting me the part I need. I'm trying not to go ballistic, but this is some of the worst customer service I have had in quite some time.

    So is it time to go postal on these folks, or should I just chill? Does it really take over a week for priority mail to go from Washington state to Pennsylvania?

    Not digging riding my son's geared bike. Want to get back on the SS.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allroy
    about Spot, that and that the hubs were less than stellar. I have never owned or had any personal dealings with them so I can't speak from personal experience though.

    Have you thought about getting a new rear hub that is easier to service and uses standard parts? Surly's are bombproof and everything is readily available through QBP. I also like the Paul Disk WORD hubs, little more money, but nicer stuff.

    Good Luck,
    -j
    yeah, my next hub will definitely be something better. I've already had to replace the bearings in this one. Problem is, I had the wheel rebuilt a few months ago at no little cost. Don't want to just throw that out.

  8. #8
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    Spot is located in Vancouver BC, your lbs is probably going through Cannondale in Pennsylvania. I've always delt with Spot directly (even when the hub came from Brodie), and their CS was very good. However, being a small operation, you may have to be patient over the holidays.

    RE: broken axle - we've had a few of those. It's designed as a light hub, and therefore uses an aluminium axle. If the axle bolt does not go into the axle far enough (past the threaded neck) then the axle is prone to breaking - Brodie spec'ed a chain tug on the bike, which didn't allow the bolt to go in far enough, and as a result we all broke the axle at the neck. Spot replace the axle immediately, and said to use a longer bolt (supplied) or don't use the chain tug as it's not required. We all lost the tug, and have beeen fine since. In the case that you need a stronger axle, they have a steel option.

    Bearings - Spot uses Enduro bearings, same as most others (Pauls, Surly, etc...) and we've had similar life with them all. We usually replace them with SKS bearings, which last alot longer. With bearings, you get what you pay for. The Spot hub allows pre-load adjustment, which extends the life of the bearings, but the Spot preload is a pain to set.

    PS - You could always put a $10 BMX cog + spacers on your Son's real wheel and use it on your 1FG...

  9. #9
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    Don't go ballistic

    Quote Originally Posted by dtownmtb
    ... So is it time to go postal on these folks, or should I just chill? ....
    Don't go ballistic, it never helps. At best they'll construe your actions as justifying a perception of you as an unreasonable, whacked out, egocentric jerk who doesn't appreciate the "realities" of a company like theirs trying to provide good customer service. At worst they just won't care.

    In any case it won't help.

    Find out who's closer to the top and write a letter or an email to them. If email, include a link to this thread so Spot can see the potential damage to their good reputation if this sort of thing continues.

    The success of a company is won one happy customer at a time. Companies buy advertising to reach prospective customers with their pitch but nothing is more credible than word of mouth. (I know this; I work in advertising.) With the advent of web boards like this one, a bad experience can reach a lot of people and do plenty of damage. Help Spot understand that serving you well is in both your best interests.

    Meanwhile, what's behind you is behind you and can't be changed. Sorry if I sounded preachy.

    --Sparty
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    We get old because we quit riding.

  10. #10
    Elk
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    I understand your frustration, but please be aware that Spot is a small operation. Customer service issues are generally handled by one of two people--Mike or Jessica.

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    Thanks all for the comments

    Quote Originally Posted by Elk
    I understand your frustration, but please be aware that Spot is a small operation. Customer service issues are generally handled by one of two people--Mike or Jessica.
    My LBS and I have been talking to Mike. He seems sincere, but I get suspicious after being told more than once that it should be "on the machine" tomorrow. I'd have been much happier if they would have told me in the first place that it would be 6 weeks.

    itsdoable - I thought about the whole holiday thing, but there was no holidays between Thanksgiving and Xmas. Yeah, I can see that the hollow aluminum axle is not made to last. Unfortunately, this is what came with my bike, so didn't have a choice. No chain tugs on this bike, it has vertical dropouts (EBB). I did put better quality bearings in there over a year ago and they are still running smooth. All the other wheels/bikes I have are v-brake only so they can't be used on the 1FG.

    Sparty - I hear what you are saying, but the frustration level is rising. I'll just have to call next week (when they are back in) and have a rational discussion with them.

    Perhaps I have been spoiled. Just about every other bike company I have dealt with had superb customer service.

  12. #12
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    I would say skip the middle man. The folks at Spot are great to deal with. Contact them directly. you can find the contact info at
    www.spotbikes.com

    Your friendly neighborhood Spot Brand Whore

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    Spare wheels are good! Even a cheap gearie rear wheel will work in your 1fg and keep you riding.
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    SPOT Customer Service

    I have had extensive customer service experience with SPOT. I broke two of their frames after alot of use. The first time I wasn't sure what to expect- will they replace/ repair it or give me the run around? Spoke/emailed Mike a few times, had to wait a few weeks but got the frame repaired and painted a non-stock color for having me wait a little longer than usual. About 18 months later I noticed hairline cracks in the frame. Okay, frame issue number two this will NOT be easy to work through. WRONG. Mike asked for the frame, inspected it and gave me a new frame. AWESOME! AWESOME! AWESOME!

    Now it does seem to take some time to work through the issues (a few weeks but hey we are talking about a frame here!) but they stand behind their products. I put alot of miles on my rear spot hub and after it finally gave up the ghost I moved to a set of White Industry Hubs, Cranks and freewheels- butter all the way.

    Good luck.
    I guarantee I will never, ever be accused of bringing sexy back...

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    1fg.

    Hi,
    I am new to this Singlespeed stuff and bought a 1FG.
    I did'nt like how heavy the wheels were with straight 14G spokes!
    I am now using a DT Swiss Hugi 240 gearie disc hub with King spacers and 3 King cogs(16T,17T,18T cogs) 14/17 DT revolution spokes and Stan's Olympic rims!
    If I want to use a different gear, all I have to do is mess with the EBB!
    I like the idea that I can use this wheel on all my MTB bikes now by just swapping out cassettes.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elk
    I understand your frustration, but please be aware that Spot is a small operation. Customer service issues are generally handled by one of two people--Mike or Jessica.

    Being a small business doesn't excuse you from having integrity. If they say they're going to do something, they should do it. Period. I've heard multiple stories about this same kind of thing with Spot. Sounds like if anything they're inconsistent. Maybe sometimes they're just too busy to handle their workload.

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    --Update--

    Talked to Spot yesterday (their first day back from vacation). Mike wasn't sure if my axle went out when he said it would. Said he'd check on it.

    Called again today. He said he sent me an axle from his own wheel yesterday. Assuming that this actually happened, I must have become annoying enough to deal with. He also said that when they get the new axles (the are stainless instead of aluminum - good change) he'll send one out for me.

    If all this occurrs as promised, I'll be glad to have it over, but have not enjoyed the process at all. Fingers crossed that I get an axle before the weekend.

  18. #18
    hands up who wants to die
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    So - you have 2 years on a very light rear hub with an aluminum axle and no warranty, and you are possibly going to get a *free* axle replacement?

    Sounds pretty good to me.

    -r
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  19. #19
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    I had the spot hub on my bianchi. i'd ride it 3 months, then it would need a rebuild.

    no thanks.

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    Yo, Pod

    What kind of rear hub are you using these days? That is to say, what holds up to your special brand of abuse?

    --Sparty


    Quote Originally Posted by Padre
    I had the spot hub on my bianchi. i'd ride it 3 months, then it would need a rebuild.

    no thanks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus
    What kind of rear hub are you using these days? That is to say, what holds up to your special brand of abuse?

    --Sparty
    My Chris King goes about a year before hinting at needing a rebuild.

    My DT Swiss FR hubs have been flawless but I don't have quite as many miles on them. Then again, Curiak had them before me!

    My DT 240's have been flawless too.

    I'm putting 240's on the new SS FWIW.

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    Thanks. Good to know.

    You're getting a new bike? Did I miss the thread?

    Please point me in the right direction or spill the beans if you haven't already done so.

    Thanks, Bro.

    --Sparty


    Quote Originally Posted by Padre
    My Chris King goes about a year before hinting at needing a rebuild.

    My DT Swiss FR hubs have been flawless but I don't have quite as many miles on them. Then again, Curiak had them before me!

    My DT 240's have been flawless too.

    I'm putting 240's on the new SS FWIW.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus
    You're getting a new bike? Did I miss the thread?

    Please point me in the right direction or spill the beans if you haven't already done so.

    Thanks, Bro.

    --Sparty
    No worries...here you go...it's not quite "done" yet but is 95% there....
    Thread Here

  24. #24
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    Whoa!

    You been holdin' out on us here on the SS board.

    I'm hurt.

    Not really. Truth is I'm jealous. That's one FINE frame, me friend.

    I wish I "needed"/had the money for another bike. Maybe after I hear about your 29er experience the former will come to fruition. As for the latter, I'm willing to eat pancakes & Kraft mac & cheese for a few months in order to make it happen, if I become convinced.

    So convince me.

    Please!

    --Sparty



    Quote Originally Posted by Padre
    No worries...here you go...it's not quite "done" yet but is 95% there....
    Thread Here
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    Quote Originally Posted by Padre
    No worries...here you go...it's not quite "done" yet but is 95% there....
    Thread Here
    Hey! your promise of build pics in "a day or so" was made more than a week ago! Let's see it!
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  26. #26
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    I'm glad I have steered clear of Spot so far having heard the rumors of bad experiences from people. Sometimes they get it right and people get good service and sometimes the wheels come off. One could say that their customer service is "spotty."

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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy
    Hey! your promise of build pics in "a day or so" was made more than a week ago! Let's see it!
    True.
    handlebars showed up in the mail yesterday.
    stem is a touch short, need to swap it for a 110 with a touch more rise.

    I reaaaally want to wait for my "bling-ring" to show up before the unveiling, but i don't think i can wait. should be by tomorrow.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpet
    So - you have 2 years on a very light rear hub with an aluminum axle and no warranty, and you are possibly going to get a *free* axle replacement?

    Sounds pretty good to me.

    -r
    I suppose you could look at it that way. I just see the 6 weeks that I haven't been able to ride my SS.

    The aluminum axle that Mike pulled out of his wheel (It is obviously used, but it'll do for now) came today. He said that he will send a stainless one when they are available. Pretty sure I'll have to pony up the bucks for that one.

    I'll put it all together tonight and hope that the axle holds up to my hefty 155lbs until the steel ones are available.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpet
    So - you have 2 years on a very light rear hub with an aluminum axle and no warranty, and you are possibly going to get a *free* axle replacement?

    Sounds pretty good to me.

    -r
    Although this logic really can't be argued with, it misses the point IMO. Read on...

    Quote Originally Posted by dtownmtb
    I suppose you could look at it that way. I just see the 6 weeks that I haven't been able to ride my SS. ...
    Perhaps dtownmtb could/should have said is, "I just see the 6 weeks that I haven't been able to ride my SS because of my dependence on the things I was told by the folks at Spot."

    Communication is key to successful relationships, whether in a marriage, a friendship, in business, parenting, whatever. People need to be credible. Good communication developes trust. People need to say what they'll do, then do what they say.

    About 15 years ago I read a sticky note stuck to one of my coworker's telephones and this message rang so true that it has never left my consciousness. It read, "Expectations = future disappointments."

    How true. In the absence of good communication, people develop expectations on their own. In dtownmtb's case, (s)he wasn't just the victim of poor communication. Even worse (s)he was actually given certain expectations that turned out to be untrue. This guaranteed his/her disappointment. Nothing worse than that. There goes trust. There goes Spot's credibility.

    After this experience, how much does it really matter whether Spot sends another axle? Will dtownmtb buy another Spot product?

    Thanks for listening.

    --Sparty
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus
    Although this logic really can't be argued with, it misses the point IMO. Read on...


    Perhaps dtownmtb could/should have said is, "I just see the 6 weeks that I haven't been able to ride my SS because of my dependence on the things I was told by the folks at Spot."

    Communication is key to successful relationships, whether in a marriage, a friendship, in business, parenting, whatever. People need to be credible. Good communication developes trust. People need to say what they'll do, then do what they say.

    About 15 years ago I read a sticky note stuck to one of my coworker's telephones and this message rang so true that it has never left my consciousness. It read, "Expectations = future disappointments."

    How true. In the absence of good communication, people develop expectations on their own. In dtownmtb's case, (s)he wasn't just the victim of poor communication. Even worse (s)he was actually given certain expectations that turned out to be untrue. This guaranteed his/her disappointment. Nothing worse than that. There goes trust. There goes Spot's credibility.

    After this experience, how much does it really matter whether Spot sends another axle? Will dtownmtb buy another Spot product?

    Thanks for listening.

    --Sparty
    Sparty, your comments are "spot" on.
    I (he, by the way) finally got fed up and ordered another cheap wheelset last week. If I'd have known at the outset that this process would take a few weeks, woulda done that in the first place and been on the road long before now. On the positive side, I now have a spare.

    I gotta say that there is no way I'd buy another Spot product. I understand the challenges of a small business and am willing to be very patient with them, but I don't feel that I got very good treatment in this case. OK, maybe Spot was getting yanked around by their supplier on the new axles and just passed that on. But it really bugs me that Mike told me before Xmas that he was sending an axle that he had sitting there. He did not. What am I to make of that? It was only after being a pest that I got him to send me what I needed.

    Anywho, looking forward to getting out tonight.

  31. #31
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    One problem though... he never bought a Spot product, he bought a Cannondale bike that came with a Spot product. Cannondale's warranty on components is one year, so C'dale owed him nothing either. My cynical guess is that the LBS knew that C'dale would give them no freebies and figured that the small business (Spot) would bend over backwards trying to keep them happy.

    This customer had never given Spot a dime directly, and Spot probably made $25 profit (a $150msrp hub sold at bulk wholesale prices to Cannondale). Spot attempted to keep this possible-future-customer happy and failed. After the hourly wage costs are factored in from dealing with the repeated phone calls from the LBS, Spot is close to losing money on this transaction I bet.

    Yeah, Spot blew it by saying they would send him the axle, or maybe their supplier blew it (not unheard-of for small-time machine shops), but the (nonexistant) warranty issue should never have been brought to them in the first place.

    This anecdote doesn't make Spot look great at keeping their verbal promises to riders looking for handouts, but then again companies like Spot are going broke trying to keep such jokers happy.

    And, as has been stated a few times, MTB parts break all the time and riders who are serious about staying on the trail have back-ups available.

    I notice that Cannondale no longer specs the Spot hub... rather the 1FG comes with something generic from Taiwan. I bet it's a lot easier for Cannondale to mail out a replacement!

    -r
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpet
    One problem though... he never bought a Spot product, he bought a Cannondale bike that came with a Spot product. Cannondale's warranty on components is one year, so C'dale owed him nothing either. My cynical guess is that the LBS knew that C'dale would give them no freebies and figured that the small business (Spot) would bend over backwards trying to keep them happy.

    This customer had never given Spot a dime directly, and Spot probably made $25 profit (a $150msrp hub sold at bulk wholesale prices to Cannondale). Spot attempted to keep this possible-future-customer happy and failed. After the hourly wage costs are factored in from dealing with the repeated phone calls from the LBS, Spot is close to losing money on this transaction I bet.

    Yeah, Spot blew it by saying they would send him the axle, or maybe their supplier blew it (not unheard-of for small-time machine shops), but the (nonexistant) warranty issue should never have been brought to them in the first place.

    This anecdote doesn't make Spot look great at keeping their verbal promises to riders looking for handouts, but then again companies like Spot are going broke trying to keep such jokers happy.

    And, as has been stated a few times, MTB parts break all the time and riders who are serious about staying on the trail have back-ups available.

    I notice that Cannondale no longer specs the Spot hub... rather the 1FG comes with something generic from Taiwan. I bet it's a lot easier for Cannondale to mail out a replacement!

    -r
    I think you misunderstand. This "joker" never, ever expected a free axle. I understood that I was outside the warranty period and am ready and willing to pay for the replacement part. The issue here is the constant stringing along and at least one broken promise.

    An amusing update. Mike did send me an axle from his own wheel. Got it yesterday. When I went to put it on the bike, noticed it is a bolt on. My wheel originally had a quick-release. So, I guess I need to find some bolts to make this damned thing work. I suppose this goes back to Sparty's comments about communication. I assumed quick release, they assumed bolt-on.

    *sigh*

    --Jeff

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    Another update.

    Talked to Mike about the quick release thing. He said the quick release hubs were a special order that was made just for Cannondale that they won't do again. But, he just got one of those returned. Someone wanted bolt-on instead of quick release. He will send me the axle (I told him I'd pay for it) and that "hopefully" is the end of the story. This last interaction was the most positive I have had with the company yet and Mike was more helpfull than in the past. His attitude and helpfullness did go a ways toward reducing my irritation with Spot.

    --Jeff

  34. #34
    mtbr member
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    I've had much the same problem with the axle on my rear spot hub, which is apparently made out of a revolutionary new aluminum/butter alloy. It broke once in use, and once during a bearing change, and it took ~2 months to get a new one from spot.

    fatbat

  35. #35
    See Spot bike
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    Spot Wheelset

    I guess this probably is not the best time to sell a Spot SS wheelset on MTBR

  36. #36
    mtbr member
    Reputation: ejr13's Avatar
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    Sorry to hear about others problems with spot. I have had 3, all custom. I currentlly have 2- Ti SS and a crossbike. I have had there hubs for 5+ years with no problems what so ever. I even had a a front used on my bmx bikes.

    I did talk to Mike once about the Cannondale deal once. Man they screwed him over on payment. It took forever to get paid and he had to hold the order over their heads when they promised 50% up front and wanted the product before paying a dime.

  37. #37
    ...
    Reputation: dtownmtb's Avatar
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    Final Update

    After my last post (where I had been promised that an axle would be sent), I waited about a week. When no axle arrived I called again and was told that it had not been sent yet because mike had not made it over the border to Washington (you can't mail from Canada to the U.S.??). Said he'd get it done. Another week went by and another call. Axle was sent a couple of days ago. A week later I called to get a tracking number. Call was not returned. Called the next day, left my e-mail address with a woman who said Mike would send me tracking info. Two days later, no e-mail. Got a call from the LBS today, the frickin axle finally arrived. It is a little beat up, obviously has been used, but it works.

    Well, that only took a little over 2 months.

    Needless to say, Spot will get no more of my business.

    My LBS and Cannondale get gold stars though. The owner of my LBS got pissed off by the whole situation and went back to Cannondale. Told them that it appeared that I couldn't get a replacement part for a bike they sold. Cannondale agreed to send me a new rear wheel for very cheap. Fortunately, the axle arrived while I was still "thinking about it".

    The saga ends.

  38. #38
    Out spokin'
    Reputation: Sparticus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dtownmtb
    ...Needless to say, Spot will get no more of my business. ...The saga ends.
    I love happy endings!

    Too bad this story lacks one.

    --Sparty
    disciplesofdirt.org

    We don't quit riding because we get old.
    We get old because we quit riding.

  39. #39
    Expert Pushing SSer
    Reputation: Meat Foot's Avatar
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    Gawdam....this makes DEAN look on time or early. Sorry to hear about your experience with Spot.
    Tuff Schist

  40. #40
    Where's Toto?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meat Foot
    Gawdam....this makes DEAN look on time or early. Sorry to hear about your experience with Spot.
    Uh....coincidentally, it's my understanding that Dean used to build some of the Spot frames. Go figure.

  41. #41
    R I D E S T E E L
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    glad to hear you got some resolution. i spoke with them 5 or 6 years ago, (to whoever the main guy is, don't recall) about sponsoring our single speed cross team. they were really psyched as they didn't really have any single speed cross bikes here in the midwest. all was in line and they said they wanted to do it. then, when i tried to get back to them with frame sizing, etc, i came up empty. no returned call, no answered calls, no answered emails. wtf?

    while i like their bikes, i'd never give them my business and i'd persuade others to do the same. sorry spot, what goes around comes around.

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