Slipping under heavy load and Getting that chainline just right- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Slipping under heavy load and Getting that chainline just right

    how is it done? mine is slipping under heavy load.

    i'm running : 32/16 gearing, E-13 chainguide, Forte Tensioner, and a KMC "kool" chain (K810).

    not sure if it's caused by chainline but i think it probably is. though it looks good, how do i get it perfect?

    could it be caused by the front chainring designed for 8-speed with all it's pins and ramps and short teeth?

    not sure where it's slipping (front or back) but it's hard to tell because i can't pedal that hard and safely look back.

    where should i start

  2. #2
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    Start at the rear cog. It's most likely to be slipping there. Slipping at the front results in derailment. What type of cog is it?
    I see hills.

    I want to climb them.

  3. #3
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    That's my exact same setup. I had the same problem as well and it didn't change no matter how aligned it was. Problem with mine is tension. I removed a few chain links and it rides like a dream now.

    If your alignment is spot-on, it's your chain tension that needs adjustment or increasing.

  4. #4
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    rear cog is a forte singlespeed specific 16t
    i'm thinkin i might change over to the 18t though

    i dunno if it would derail in the front, i've got a salsa bashguard on it and that chainguide, and both keep the chain on the chainring

    are singlespeed setups more suceptible to low tension than multi-speed setups? because my tension is quite a bit tighter than my old derailler setup

    maybe it's the master link hitting the bashguard? i looked at it and it comes pretty close but doesn't hit... but thats without my 230 lb weight on it

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexJK
    rear cog is a forte singlespeed specific 16t
    i'm thinkin i might change over to the 18t though

    i dunno if it would derail in the front, i've got a salsa bashguard on it and that chainguide, and both keep the chain on the chainring

    are singlespeed setups more suceptible to low tension than multi-speed setups? because my tension is quite a bit tighter than my old derailler setup

    maybe it's the master link hitting the bashguard? i looked at it and it comes pretty close but doesn't hit... but thats without my 230 lb weight on it
    yes, they should be a good bit tighter than a geared setup. You should only be able to deflect the chain up and down about 1/4" with your hand

  6. #6
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    even with a spring loaded tensioner?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexJK
    even with a spring loaded tensioner?
    ...and you just found the problem with some spring loaded tensioners. It's not that you don't have to get it that tight with one of those tensioners, its that sometimes you can't.

    The straighter the chain comes off the bottom of the rear cog to the front chainring, the more slackness you can get away with. If you have too many links in your chain and your tensioner is angled down too much, then it will compound the problem of a loose tensioner because not enough chain links are engaged on the cog

  8. #8
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    alright, that makes sense, i'm gonna go remove a link and report back

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexJK
    alright, that makes sense, i'm gonna go remove a link and report back
    friendly reminder: don't remove a link unless you know it will still fit. Just like carpentry: measure twice, cut once

  10. #10
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    The slipping is very common with a spring tensioner; here's the long story. If you just want a fix, skip down to the second paragraph.

    The usual suspect of a skipping chain is a spring loaded tensioner. Most spring tensioners work by pushing the chain down and away from the rear cog. This results in very poor chain wrap. When peddling the majority of the torque from the chain is on the front chainring is on the teeth at 12:00 –0300 and on the rear cog it is the teeth from 6:00- 9:00. What this means is the very area of the rear cog where, chain wrap is necessary, a push down spring tensioner pulls the chain off the cog. This transfers the torque to the tensioner pulley wheel, which in turn pulls the tensioner arm upward. The chain then rides up in the cog teeth in the 9:00-12:00 position. Since it takes a great deal of torque to turn the rear wheel and there is practically no chain warp in the area, the tensioner will fail and the chain will jump over the teeth at the 9:00-12:00 position on the cog, causing it to “skip”.

    The answer is to first make sure your chain is as short as possible (a half link is a good idea but it will create a weaker link). Next use a spring tensioner with a push up mode or even better a tensioner without a spring so the arm can be locked up; this way tensioner cannot be defeated by overcoming the spring tension. A quick fix is to zip-tie the tensioner arm to the chain stay. This will create a tensioner in a push up mode that does not rely on spring tension.
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  11. #11
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    yeah, lol i just went to remove a link and measured it, seemed okay so i cut it... whadaya know! it's too short for it to go around the tensioner hahahahaha, so i installed it without the tensioner and it fits fine, but it's loose.

    so i think i'm gonna go with the zip-tie route. i guess i should remove the spring right?

    this is a finicky thing lol but it's WAY better than gears

  12. #12
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    ha! HA HA!!! it worked!!! THANKS!!

    now i just need to fabricate somthing that doesn't look so ghetto (i wouldn't have a problem with it but people at school like to ***** about everything lol, and fabrication is fun )

    thats until i can get a proper tensioner, what was that one that goes around the axle and adjusts using a bolt in the derailer hanger? it has a smooth pully instead of a chainwheel.

    i think the name starts with an R

  13. #13
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    deleted double post
    Last edited by AlexJK; 10-11-2009 at 08:31 PM.

  14. #14
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    deleted tripple post (oops)
    Last edited by AlexJK; 10-11-2009 at 08:32 PM.

  15. #15
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    Go to pricepoint.com they have the Rennen Rollenlager for $46 or you can get the Sette version that is slightly different on sale for $19.98. I read enough bad things about the spring tensioners to avoid them I have the Sette fixed tensioner on order which should be here by Wed. Hoping to have my frankenbike SS up and running soon.

  16. #16
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    added that sette tensioner to my wishlist! thanks!!!!!!

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexJK
    added that sette tensioner to my wishlist! thanks!!!!!!
    Before you decide on the sette, take a look at the <a href="http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=408510"> Yess ETR-B </a> . Very clean and elegant solution.
    Just one more rep and I get the toaster!

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by aka brad
    Before you decide on the sette, take a look at the <a href="http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=408510"> Yess ETR-B </a> . Very clean and elegant solution.
    Just so AlexJK knows that tensioner you suggested requires that you have a external bearing Bottom bracket (Hollowtech II Style) and the tools to remove and install it. The sette tensioner only requires you to have 0 tools actually. All you do is replace the end of the quick release with the one from the kit and that is it.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vtolds
    Just so AlexJK knows that tensioner you suggested requires that you have a external bearing Bottom bracket (Hollowtech II Style) and the tools to remove and install it. The sette tensioner only requires you to have 0 tools actually. All you do is replace the end of the quick release with the one from the kit and that is it.
    This is the one he was talking about getting and it does require a hex wrench for the bolt into the derailleur hanger

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by boomn
    This is the one he was talking about getting and it does require a hex wrench for the bolt into the derailleur hanger
    oops you got me there. Still simpler, both do work. When my bike was a SS I used that particular Sette Tensioner, but its been a few months and details just slip the mind.
    Big Foot Blue KHS XC704r

  21. #21
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    I was running that same gearing and same style tensioner on my old SS and never had ANY slippage whatsoever, no matter how hard I mashed! That was with a Salsa 32T 3/32 SS specific ring, Surly 16T 3/32 cog and a Sram PC-1 1/8 chain....
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by farrisw1
    That was with a Salsa 32T 3/32 SS specific ring
    I run that same ring on my 1x9, fantastic ring, and super light.
    Big Foot Blue KHS XC704r

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vtolds
    I run that same ring on my 1x9, fantastic ring, and super light.
    I concur, I recommend it....I moved it over to my new SS after the last 1 1/2 yrs of use and still going strong!

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vtolds
    Just so AlexJK knows that tensioner you suggested requires that you have a external bearing Bottom bracket (Hollowtech II Style) and the tools to remove and install it.
    Actually that is not correct. If you read the referenced post you would have seen that one of the posters, Speedtub.Nate, whom was in contact with Yess, mounted the ETR-B on a bike with a standard cartridge BB. There were a few issues, primarily with the chain line, but they were easily remedied (the use of the ETR-B is no different than using an E-type bottom bracket, so the use of one would eliminate any chainline issue). As you can see, it works just fine..
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    Just one more rep and I get the toaster!

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by farrisw1
    I was running that same gearing and same style tensioner on my old SS and never had ANY slippage whatsoever, no matter how hard I mashed! That was with a Salsa 32T 3/32 SS specific ring, Surly 16T 3/32 cog and a Sram PC-1 1/8 chain....
    Obviously spring tensioners work with most applications, however sometimes they don't; my Singelator allowed the same kind of slipping in the push down mode. For those that have no problems, great, ride what ya brought, for those with slippage, here are some tools.
    Just one more rep and I get the toaster!

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by aka brad
    Actually that is not correct. If you read the referenced post you would have seen that one of the posters, Speedtub.Nate, whom was in contact with Yess, mounted the ETR-B on a bike with a standard cartridge BB. There were a few issues, primarily with the chain line, but they were easily remedied (the use of the ETR-B is no different than using an E-type bottom bracket, so the use of one would eliminate any chainline issue). As you can see, it works just fine..
    I didn't realize because the particular tensioner you referenced is the one for the External BB, not a Cartridge.
    Big Foot Blue KHS XC704r

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vtolds
    I didn't realize because the particular tensioner you referenced is the one for the External BB, not a Cartridge.
    It is not specific to either one. All you need is a BB that can accept a spacer behind the drive side cup or cartridge. External BBs are almost all like this, but so are a number of cartridge BBs

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by aka brad
    Obviously spring tensioners work with most applications, however sometimes they don't; my Singelator allowed the same kind of slipping in the push down mode. For those that have no problems, great, ride what ya brought, for those with slippage, here are some tools.
    Agreed....I will say that I did have some slippage when I first put everything together but soon found that I just didn't have the tensioner "tensioned" enough....as I removed enough links and the tensioner became more taught it solved the problem, although as you said, this may not work with everyone's application

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by farrisw1
    Agreed....I will say that I did have some slippage when I first put everything together but soon found that I just didn't have the tensioner "tensioned" enough....as I removed enough links and the tensioner became more taught it solved the problem, although as you said, this may not work with everyone's application
    I think you nailed it with the chain length issue. Most don't get the fact that a spring tensioner does not work like a dérailleur. It is good for tensioning a chain, only after the chain has been made as short as possible.
    Just one more rep and I get the toaster!

  30. #30
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    Zip Tied Singilators

    Anyone have a picture?

  31. #31
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    I changed my Forte tensioner to wrap around the rear cog and it has been perfect.


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