Sliders or EBB in a Ti frame- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Sliders or EBB in a Ti frame

    I'm thinking about getting a Ti SS frame made in the next 12 months. The last choice will involve dialing in the geometry, but the first choice involves chain tensioning.

    I've been running an EBB since I started with the Rig and Ferrous. I was admiring the sliders on the Moots in the current DirtRag and wondered, which would be the way to go?

    Since it's a Ti frame I'm talking about I'm thinking I need to make "the right choice" but I don't want anyone flaming during the discussion. I know there are better EBB's than the stock EBB the GF's come with so let's not go there.

    Anyone out there run both? If so, which did you prefer?
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  2. #2
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    The paragon sliders with brake mount are the shizzle--and i'm pretty sure you can get 'em in steel or ti. Who is building the frame? Most builders have a preference. I've not ridden an EBB, but I prefer the sliders aesthetically and simplicity wise.
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  3. #3
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    I have an EBB on my Black Sheep and am happy with it. Take it out and clean it every couple/few months and all is good. Like WadePatton said, ask the builder what his preference is for you on that frame. James at Black Sheep advised that I go with the EBB because I was 200lbs+ and would ride aggressively fully rigid (yeah, I know that sounds wrong)... he believed the sliders could ovalize over time with my weight and I figured I'd just trust him. I couldn't be happier with my frame, and the EBB is easy enough for anyone to operate!

  4. #4
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    EBB for Me

    I have the EBB on my Cannondale 1FG and it never gave me problems, which ultimately led me to finding a builder that offerred that option. I'm now running an EBB on a Seven Verve (Bushnell http://www.bushnelltandems.com/ makes theirs) and have also had no problems.

    Similar to the first response, I prefer the aesthetics of the EBB. Go with a quality builder that offers the style you like, and you probably won't have any problems with either choice.

  5. #5
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    the old ebb vs slider debate

    Here's my experience:

    I have a custom steel frame with paragons. For years and years I was an opponent of the ebb, for me it just posed too many problems with bike fit issues. I tend to switch gear ratios fairly often and did not want to continually adjust saddle height and fore/aft position. That being said, I would never buy a custom bike with paragon sliders again. I couldn't ride more than about an hour without having noticeably more chain slack. I have lost my chain a few times but that's not really the major issue. It's that when the wheel slips to one side it causes the rotor to rub which is a pretty inefficient way to ride, to say the least. I've tried everything, loctite, different bolts with a larger head, even loctite between the slider and the loop on the frame itself. Eventually I began to wear a notch about 1-2mm deep into the dropout where the horizontal adjusting screw contacts it. I think the problem stems from the direct inline orientation of the bolts and where the power is coming from at your crankset. I do have a voodoo with proprietary sliding dropouts,that are not inline with each other. Those work just fine and I couldn't be happier with that design.

    If it's a custom frame using ebb or paragon, I'd say ebb.

  6. #6
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    Hey Tim,

    I'm surprised that 1strongone1 hasn't chimed in on this one yet...he's got the Blacksheep with an EBB and a new steel Quiring with sliders. He's said that since he got the Quiring with the Paragons, he won't order a custom bike with an EBB ever again. I'm sure he can elaborate more on his reasons than I can though. I just got my first frame with an EBB and have never had sliders...

  7. #7
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    Religous war!

    having never owned or ridden an EBB, my input is decidedly slanted... but, FWIW, I have a new Ti ss with paragon sliders, and have not had a single slip since I bought it, over 500 miles. It has been rock solid. As a peace of mind precaution, I load the slider adjustment bolts ever so slightly, so that if the main bolts should work free, the slide mechanism will still be held. Regular inspection of the adjustment bolt loading indicates the main bolts have never slipped. While I load the drivetrain quite a bit, pushing a 2-1 up just about everything local, I only weigh ~155. I wonder if folks experiencing the slippage are clocking in a lot heavier than me?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by polish coyote
    Here's my experience:

    I have a custom steel frame with paragons. For years and years I was an opponent of the ebb, for me it just posed too many problems with bike fit issues. I tend to switch gear ratios fairly often and did not want to continually adjust saddle height and fore/aft position. That being said, I would never buy a custom bike with paragon sliders again. I couldn't ride more than about an hour without having noticeably more chain slack. I have lost my chain a few times but that's not really the major issue. It's that when the wheel slips to one side it causes the rotor to rub which is a pretty inefficient way to ride, to say the least. I've tried everything, loctite, different bolts with a larger head, even loctite between the slider and the loop on the frame itself. Eventually I began to wear a notch about 1-2mm deep into the dropout where the horizontal adjusting screw contacts it. I think the problem stems from the direct inline orientation of the bolts and where the power is coming from at your crankset. I do have a voodoo with proprietary sliding dropouts,that are not inline with each other. Those work just fine and I couldn't be happier with that design.

    If it's a custom frame using ebb or paragon, I'd say ebb.
    May I ask what make is your custom steel frame? Maybe you could contact the maker and see if they could help you out with this? I'm thinking of ordering a frame myself, so I find this topic interesting. Sounds like not so much a question of EBB vs. Slider, but WHO is making your bike?!?

  9. #9
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    if you can somehow get a custom build up with sliders similar to specialized's new slider design, i would say go for it. otherwise, ebb.

  10. #10
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    I've got the EBB on my Black Sheep as well. Have no experience with sliders. The EBB from Bushnell works very well. Every two or three months I'll take it out and clean / lube it as in Phx the dust and sand is everywhere. It's very quiet and when I do change gears, takes only a couple minutes to adjust. Change seat height? I don't bother with it as I spend so much time standing.
    BTW, I'm 190 and pound on the cranks.
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  11. #11
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    I am running an EBB on my custom Seven. I have not had a chance to ride it but my LBS is cutting me a tool to use on my outboard bearing crank set up so I can adjust tension without removing the cranks.

  12. #12
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    I like the sliders I've used, but if it were me, I'd get a White ENO hub and not do sliders or EBB.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by sparkie
    I am running an EBB on my custom Seven. I have not had a chance to ride it but my LBS is cutting me a tool to use on my outboard bearing crank set up so I can adjust tension without removing the cranks.
    I'm running the latest XTR crank. I can adjust tension w/o touching the BB or cranks.
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  14. #14
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    They both work fine, it's really a matter of how much messing around with gears and such you do. To me, fit is critical and the changing of gears means a whole world of adjustments. Seat height up/down, fore/aft, stem length etc. I'm in the process of getting a Ti SS built also, and will be going with either sliders or with a set up like Vassago has on their Ti set up. I haven't had any mechanical issues with my EBB, but will never own another EBB bike (unless I buy a tandem) again, due to the complications when messing around with set up. If you're a set it and forget it type an EBB looks cleaner IMO.

  15. #15
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    Material matters, so does EBB design

    I have a steel Vulture with pinch-bolt EBB. Never had a problem with it and would go the same route again in a heartbeat. BUT...

    I don't have any bikes with sliders but for ti I think there are good reasons to go the slider route. Here's why.

    Like I said, I have a steel frame pinch-bolt EBB and it's given me NO grief. In fact I love it. I also have friends with ti frames but none of their ti frames employ pinch EBBs -- they're all set-screw type. As a material it seems that ti may be prone to deforming more than steel. Ti is an elastic metal and ti frames tend to creak. If I couldn't get my ti frame with a pinch or internal expanding EBB, I'd def go sliders.

    Ask your builder what he recommends and why.

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  16. #16
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    I rode an EBB-equipped (Bushnell) Ti BS 29er for two years and recently had it refitted with sliders. While mechanically it worked fine, I think it required more maintenance with regards to cleaning and I had issues with creaking. I want my bike to be silent, well, at least as much so as possible. The creak was isolated to the BB area after swapping, lubing and reswapping, relubing everything on the bike over and over and over. I changed out everything from headsets to cranks to BBs to wheelsets to seatposts, ect. many times over. Drove me absolutely nuts.

    I don't have too much time on the sliders due to Wisconsin weather, but I know I already prefer them. (I have other frames setup with horizontal DOs and track ends) I never thought lubing a part which sees so much dirt exposure a good idea and those thoughts were reinforced on the many occasions when dissassembling or adjusting and noting the gritty sound of the EBB in the BB shell.

    Just my $.02. Good luck and ENJOY the experience!

  17. #17
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    Hey thanks everyone for your .02. That gives me about a quarter to put toward the build

    Part of why I wanted the feedback was to help decide which builder. Some have preferences and rather than argue with one about sliders when he's mostly an EBB user will save time. (or vice versa)

    I'm pretty well decided down to two builders so thanks for your time.

    I'll now take you back to our regularly scheduled programming....
    Authorities speculate that speed may have been a factor. They are also holding gravity and inertia for questioning.

  18. #18
    Single Speed Junkie
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    Ti EBB with set screws and bushnell have both worked great for me. Problem with EBB is that most people do not know how to adjust them and they will creak. If you know the torque settings for a set screw type then it should give you years of worry free service. Bushnell just use a bit more grease on all parts including between the EBB it self. Once you have one sitting in your hands you will see that is a matter of sliding a simple wedge back and forth for the ebb to expand/contract. (Lube all these parts)

    Sliders look like a good idea, but think that they are not as aesthetically pleasing and do not have a proven history in comparison with the EBB over the long term. If they are still around in 10+ years of abuse then I might change my mind, but for now EBB it is. (Just one opinion)

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