Possible 3 speed- Mtbr.com
Results 1 to 32 of 32
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    966

    Possible 3 speed

    Anyone tried stacking Surly cogs to run a 3 or 4 speed setup?

    I love singlespeeding, but I also love tinkering with my bike and this idea is intriguing to me. 3 cogs with a 7-9 speed short cage derailleur and trigger shifter would be pretty slick.

    What I'm wondering is whether or not the limit screws on the derailleur would be long enough to reach in far enough to work. I've tried using a derailleur as a tensioner in the past, and never been able to use the limit screws with one cog, and resorted to a small piece of cable and the barrel adjuster to get it centered.

    I'm also considering a short cage road derailleur since it'd likely be smaller, but not sure how much difference a clutch would make over a 4 tooth spread (I'd be running 18-20-22).

    If anyone has done this, what shifter did you use? A Shimano trigger shifter would be slick.

  2. #2
    Downcountry AF
    Reputation: *OneSpeed*'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    6,042
    something similar has been done many times. I've considered it myself.

    https://www.google.com/search?source....0.eTpFjCoyWvI
    Rigid SS 29er
    SS 29+
    Fat Lefty
    SS cyclocross
    Full Sus 29er (Yuck)

    Stop asking how much it weighs and just go ride it.

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    966
    Thanks for that. I wasn't totally sure what to search for.

    Seems like some have issues with chain drop and skipping. Hmmm...

  4. #4
    Downcountry AF
    Reputation: *OneSpeed*'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    6,042
    A simple chain guide or a NW chainring should solve that. A clutch RD wouldn't hurt. Skipping shouldn't be a problem if your using new components.
    Rigid SS 29er
    SS 29+
    Fat Lefty
    SS cyclocross
    Full Sus 29er (Yuck)

    Stop asking how much it weighs and just go ride it.

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    966
    Yeah. In the past I had some skipping with a surly cog and a road derailleur, but you're right, I think a clutch and n/w should probably take care of it.

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    966
    Bah! I'm going to scrap this idea. Way too expensive, and too many unknowns for what amounts to a novelty.

    SS is just fine.

  7. #7
    Downcountry AF
    Reputation: *OneSpeed*'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    6,042
    Agreed. It may have it's place but it's kind of a pain. I may do it some day but haven't felt the need to tackle it yet.
    Rigid SS 29er
    SS 29+
    Fat Lefty
    SS cyclocross
    Full Sus 29er (Yuck)

    Stop asking how much it weighs and just go ride it.

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation: JoePAz's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    5,040
    The way I see it is that If you want gears... Put gears on and go with a fun range cassette. If you want SS then just use the one gear and be done. Part of beauty of single speed for me is just having one gear, no shifters, derailuers to deal with. Just you and the your legs to get it done. I do have geared bike for the days I want gears. That has a 1x11 with 28t and 10-42 cassette so I get my low climbing gear when I want it.
    Joe
    '18 Specialized Epic 29", Vassago Verhauen SS 29", '13 Santa Cruz Solo 27.5", XC, AM, blah blah blah.. I just ride.

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation: economatic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    410
    I tried something like this using some old 9 speed parts. I just wanted 2 gears for those long stretches of pavement to trails. After a couple days of dealing with it skipping and dropping the chain on rough trails I lost interest and parted out the bike. Never made sense to me why it worked so poorly...

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    1,166
    I don't see why this couldn't work easily. The cogs need to be ramped tho...surly cogs are not ramped and so syncing the shift while pedaling wouldn't work too well.

    Just use an old cassette and remove all cogs accept the ones you really want. Then adjust limit screws...

    Sent from my TB-X103F using Tapatalk

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    966
    Problem with that is individual cassette cogs will chew up a freehub, especially if they are no longer pinned.

    I'm not sure what's out there that would have three cogs on a carrier in the sizes I'm looking for.

    Thanks.

    Edit: Of course, I just looked and it looks like SRAM 1050 and 1070 cassettes have spiders on the bottom three cogs, so an 11-23 road cassette would give me a 19-21-23 cluster.

    I can't see how this wouldn't work well?

  12. #12
    Downcountry AF
    Reputation: *OneSpeed*'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    6,042
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinkers View Post
    Problem with that is individual cassette cogs will chew up a freehub, especially if they are no longer pinned.

    I'm not sure what's out there that would have three cogs on a carrier in the sizes I'm looking for.

    Thanks.
    A steel or Ti freehub solves that problem.
    Rigid SS 29er
    SS 29+
    Fat Lefty
    SS cyclocross
    Full Sus 29er (Yuck)

    Stop asking how much it weighs and just go ride it.

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    966
    At the expense of $90 for a hope freehub .

    The road cassette should be slick. Being 10 speed I can run standard 10 speed stuff which is cheaper than piecing together 9 speed stuff with a clutch derailleur.

    I'm going to give it a shot, stay tuned.

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation: santabooze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    243
    I'll be watching this...

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    966
    Meh, not much to watch. I got all of the stuff for it, and attempted to set it up today.

    Off the bat, with my chainline, a derailleur hits the cog stack with no chain tension. This would be annoying if I ever needed to take the wheel off on the trail for what ever reason. However, SRAM's cage lock still makes it doable, you just need to lock the cage before you mount the derailleur and get a chain on.

    Stock limit screws are too short (which I gave about a 50% chance of working anyway) and so I went and grabbed a couple from the hardware store.

    However, due to the length of the low limit screw and how far it must be inserted, it nearly contacts derailleur simultaneously with the high limit. It no longer hits the limit stop and instead is jammed into the side of the stop which means there's not a hard bottom out and derailleur could possibly overshift. I should have taken pictures to explain what I'm saying.

    Anyway, it's a bit too hodge-podge for me and I'm going to pass. I'll hang on to the ten speed stuff or resell it and the bike will remain singlespeed.

    That said, if you have a greater tolerance for kludging than I do, it can probably work. I think a Shimano derailleur would be better since I think the limit setup is different.

    For a hundred or so bucks it was worth it.

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Velobike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    7,167
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinkers View Post
    Anyone tried stacking Surly cogs to run a 3 or 4 speed setup? ...
    I have had that on my 1x1 for the last 4 years. It's a tringle speed.

    But there's no way I'd spoil the bike by putting a derailleur on it. I move the ratios by hand when it's necessary.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Latitude: 5736' Highlands, Scotland

  17. #17
    Downcountry AF
    Reputation: *OneSpeed*'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    6,042
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinkers View Post
    At the expense of $90 for a hope freehub .
    Next time get your Hope hub with the steel freehub out of the box, it doesn't cost any more than the standard one. Hope is the only company I can think of that offers that and it's a huge value IMO. At minimum it's nice to have the option.
    Rigid SS 29er
    SS 29+
    Fat Lefty
    SS cyclocross
    Full Sus 29er (Yuck)

    Stop asking how much it weighs and just go ride it.

  18. #18
    Downcountry AF
    Reputation: *OneSpeed*'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    6,042
    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike View Post
    I have had that on my 1x1 for the last 4 years. It's a tringle speed.
    Can you post a pic of your cogs/freehub? In my head your using wide base cogs and your chainline would suck on the two outer cogs. Is it just not that bad? Obviously your not having major issues, I'm just curious about your setup. No tensioner?
    Rigid SS 29er
    SS 29+
    Fat Lefty
    SS cyclocross
    Full Sus 29er (Yuck)

    Stop asking how much it weighs and just go ride it.

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Velobike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    7,167
    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    Can you post a pic of your cogs/freehub? In my head your using wide base cogs and your chainline would suck on the two outer cogs. Is it just not that bad? Obviously your not having major issues, I'm just curious about your setup. No tensioner?
    Here you are.

    If you look you can see I have them held in place by clamps. What I do is loosen the clamp and slide the assembly over so the cog I want is in perfect alignment. A bit like the TriVelox system of the past.



    The reason I did this was to minimise the amount of tools I had to carry to an event where I might want to have a different gear ratio, eg it may be flatter than my normal terrain, so I'd want a higher ratio. Instead of having to carry a chain whip, all I need is a small Allen key. You'll also notice I don't need tools to unbolt my wheel. I use wingnuts to hold it, and I have modified the chain tug to do the same. I can have the wheel out in much the same time as someone wrestling their QR wheel past a derailleur.

    Obviously it's not intended for changing ratios during a ride, but that would be possible.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Latitude: 5736' Highlands, Scotland

  20. #20
    Downcountry AF
    Reputation: *OneSpeed*'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    6,042
    ^ that's rather clever. Thanks for sharing!
    Rigid SS 29er
    SS 29+
    Fat Lefty
    SS cyclocross
    Full Sus 29er (Yuck)

    Stop asking how much it weighs and just go ride it.

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Jack Burns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    1,864
    I've used those clamps on a regular new single speed build for my wife's SS years ago. They didn't hold the position tight and made noise. I ended going with traditional spacers.

    Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Velobike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    7,167
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Burns View Post
    I've used those clamps on a regular new single speed build for my wife's SS years ago. They didn't hold the position tight and made noise. I ended going with traditional spacers.
    I haven't used them with a single cog because the traditional spacers and lock ring does the job well enough.

    Maybe the wider base of 3 cogs makes it more stable because I have had no problem (they have been on the bike for over 3 years).
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Latitude: 5736' Highlands, Scotland

  23. #23
    Downcountry AF
    Reputation: *OneSpeed*'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    6,042
    I'm really thinking more about doing this (6 speed on a SS hub) on an upcoming build. I think I can keep it simple for a Monstercross bike. Bar end friction shifter, the smallest 6 cogs on a 8 or 9 speed cassette, and either a parts bin XT 10 speed RD or a basic short cage RD, add a NW chainring and that's it.

    No need to pull apart different cassettes and stack different cogs, no need to worry about indexed shifting (which causes a lot of complication IMO), just keep it simple. A friction shifter should work with nearly any derailleur and cog combination. Unless there's something I'm missing, am I missing something?
    Rigid SS 29er
    SS 29+
    Fat Lefty
    SS cyclocross
    Full Sus 29er (Yuck)

    Stop asking how much it weighs and just go ride it.

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Jack Burns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    1,864
    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike View Post
    I haven't used them with a single cog because the traditional spacers and lock ring does the job well enough.

    Maybe the wider base of 3 cogs makes it more stable because I have had no problem (they have been on the bike for over 3 years).
    Interesting, and probably you're right. They make good spacers anyway. I eventually used them on a dingle set-up with additional spacers filling out the cassette carrier.

    Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    966
    I'm back to contemplating this. You've got me thinking about going a different route Onespeed.

    I just outfitted my 88 Schwinn with a tricolor group from that era and the short cage derailleur is quite the piece. Seems solid, looks good, and looks to have more upper pulley clearance.

    So maybe I'm going about this wrong. A short cage road derailleur looks like it may work better. Old friction thumb shifters would be less of a hassle and cheaper. The only thing I'm really not so sure about is my cog stack since I'm not in love with the 23/21/19 ratios. I think I'd rather have a 20 or 21 low gear.

    I've got money burning a hole in my pocket now that this morning has passed. The world is full of possibilities...

  26. #26
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Jack Burns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    1,864
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinkers View Post
    I'm back to contemplating this. You've got me thinking about going a different route Onespeed.

    I just outfitted my 88 Schwinn with a tricolor group from that era and the short cage derailleur is quite the piece. Seems solid, looks good, and looks to have more upper pulley clearance.

    So maybe I'm going about this wrong. A short cage road derailleur looks like it may work better. Old friction thumb shifters would be less of a hassle and cheaper. The only thing I'm really not so sure about is my cog stack since I'm not in love with the 23/21/19 ratios. I think I'd rather have a 20 or 21 low gear.

    I've got money burning a hole in my pocket now that this morning has passed. The world is full of possibilities...
    That's interesting for sure.

    I'm actually surprised a moderater hasn't squelched this multi-speed thread here on the single speed forum. The enterprise is renegade.

    Recently I saw an NOS Shimano Lark 3 speed grip shifter and derailleur for sale on eBay somewhere, at $45, which made me think of this thread too.

    That system was Rohloff-like since it uses two cables to move the rear derailleur parallelogram. It would make a beautiful 3 speed.

    But I think that it doesn't belong on the forum here. Furthermore, it would be crap for real riding SS MTB because of the grip shift aspect, even if one could get it to work well. It would only be for urban use in a practical manner.

    All that aside, it's all good.

    I'm taking the approach of having multiple single speed bikes in 2018. There will be two dingles, one my current 26er and a 29er, and a new 26er that will be dedicated true SS but with a front shock with lock-out, no remote.

    The 29er I hope to be able to have a gear tall enough to do some road riding ( maybe a super sucky idea, but for a commuter option, never tried SS road riding except heading up to the dirt) with as well.

    Shit, I feel like I'm getting a cold. Being around children at Xmas is dangerous!

    Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk

  27. #27
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    966
    I'm not aware of a subforum that'd be more appropriate. If a mod wants to shut it down that's fine, but they can move it to wherever they deem the correct place.

  28. #28
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Jack Burns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    1,864
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinkers View Post
    I'm not aware of a subforum that'd be more appropriate. If a mod wants to shut it down that's fine, but they can move it to wherever they deem the correct place.
    It's cool!

    I have multi speed bikes as well.

    I was going to make a fat bike a 1x10, or even a 1x5 or something, inspired by this thread, but then I've decided to give that bike to a brother this year, and he probably would like the double.

    What I am contemplating is having a few single speed bikes with different gear ratios, and then taking the one for a ride depending on where I am riding.

    That's a kind of three speed situation, with three SS bikes.



    Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk

  29. #29
    mtbr member
    Reputation: dbhammercycle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    3,360
    I just got a Paul Melvin. It is a dual pulley SS tensioner that will allow the use of multiple chain rings to set up a vertical dropout frame as a 3 speed. You can run a standard 9 spd triple (22-32-42) with one cog in the back. The tensioner can handle a tooth difference of 20. I realize that an FD is more ugly than an RD, but the quality of the Paul and the options it provides makes for some tinkering fun.
    I don't know why,... it's just MUSS easier to pedal than the other ones.

  30. #30
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    966
    Honestly, I prefer the Melvin idea but alas, my bike has no provision for a front derailleur. Of course, I could hand shift but on the fly that may get tedious.

  31. #31
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Jack Burns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    1,864
    Great thread.


    In the works off SS there are always 3 speeds, or more, depending:

    Sitting
    Standing
    Walking/Running
    Carrying

    and throwing (both up and away)!

    I do them all from time to time. Maybe next year too!

    Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk

  32. #32
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Jack Burns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    1,864
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinkers View Post
    Honestly, I prefer the Melvin idea but alas, my bike has no provision for a front derailleur. Of course, I could hand shift but on the fly that may get tedious.
    I know a nine speeder who shifts the front CR with the toe of his boot!

    It's an admirable technique.


    Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk

Similar Threads

  1. 10 speed chainring with a 9 speed chain and 9 speed cassete
    By adrianfleming in forum Drivetrain - shifters, derailleurs, cranks
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 10-09-2014, 11:17 AM
  2. Sram TYPE 2 10-Speed Rear Derailleur with 9-Speed cassette + -speed Gripshift
    By jaxson in forum Drivetrain - shifters, derailleurs, cranks
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 03-02-2014, 09:43 AM
  3. Confused about 7 speed Shimano Megadrive cassette, possible to convert to 8 speed?
    By Nick_M2R in forum Drivetrain - shifters, derailleurs, cranks
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 01-31-2014, 02:56 PM
  4. 2 speed VS 3 speed shifter on a 2 speed crank??
    By 2000Z3M in forum Drivetrain - shifters, derailleurs, cranks
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 06-18-2012, 11:46 AM
  5. Speed, speed...... more speed!!!
    By hellbeni in forum Videos and POV Cameras
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 06-23-2011, 09:16 AM

Members who have read this thread: 0

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2019 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.