POE in hubs and its relationship to different terrain- Mtbr.com
Results 1 to 37 of 37
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    375

    POE in hubs and its relationship to different terrain

    Newbie question again....high POE will help in techy terrain but how about mountain fireroad climbs and other terrain?

  2. #2
    The need for singlespeed
    Reputation: zaskaranddriver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    973
    High POE is a luxury--nice but not necessary. No one ever failed a mountain fireroad climb due to insufficient engagement.

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation: One Pivot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    8,494
    ^ I agree. More is nice, less still works. Its never really needed. You get used to a low poe hub, and you learn to time moves accordingly. Im on a 48pt hub now and id rather not go back to my 16, but its nothing serious.

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation: sasquatch rides a SS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    4,565
    It's not necessary, like stated above, but once you ride something with higher POE you don't want to go back

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation: WarPigs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    803
    One Pivot, what hubs are those?
    Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation: One Pivot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    8,494
    Bitex.. asian hub, not anything too common.

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    563
    24pt is considered good. Anything more than that is a 'nice to have'. On a fireroad, even a 16pt will do. Just do the NINER motto "Pedal Damn It". LOL

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation: SlowPokePete's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    1,586
    As long as you are pedaling, engagement doesn't matter.

    That said, I have Kings on two 29ers (geared) and a Hope on my Niner SS.

    Where I ride, it is quite technical, often requiring a rider to stop and start pedaling to make a tricky section. Because of that, POE is important to me, and is the reason I run the hubs that I use...

    I do not like that feeling of pedaling and having the cranks rotate so far before the power kicks in.

    SPP
    Rigid.

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    1,103
    Quote Originally Posted by SlowPokePete View Post
    As long as you are pedaling, engagement doesn't matter.

    That said, I have Kings on two 29ers (geared) and a Hope on my Niner SS.

    Where I ride, it is quite technical, often requiring a rider to stop and start pedaling to make a tricky section. Because of that, POE is important to me, and is the reason I run the hubs that I use...

    I do not like that feeling of pedaling and having the cranks rotate so far before the power kicks in.

    SPP
    Agree.

    a quicker engaging hub is certainly not a necessity in any situation, but it could mean the difference between clearing a section or stalling out somewhere because you couldn't get the power on a split second sooner.

    On a fire road, engagement means nothing. In fact, you could argue that higher poe can actually hinder you slightly on a fire road, assuming that you're coasting parts of it... the quicker engaging hubs will typically have slightly more drag than a slower engaging hub.

    Personally, I'll hapily sacrifice a little bit of drag (that's not even noticeable in my opinion) for quicker engagement. The advantage in tech sections is invaluable.

  10. #10
    Gigantic Hawk
    Reputation: dubthang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    1,564
    My buddy and I both had WI freewheels at one point. He had a 36 poe and I had a 72. His bike always rolled slightly faster than mine. That said, I still use a 72 poe WI freewheel, and I won't go back because I love the quick engagement when trying to ratchet of tech.

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    2,041
    i can go back and forth between my white industires and ACS freewheel and never notice the difference.

    it must mean something to some folks but to me it really doesn't matter even in the technical terrain (but i think for some it is mental even though they don't believe it). i don't think i ever missed a line bacause i couldn't get the hub to engage. but then i am one who doesn't notice much; if the tires are inflated and the brakes aren't rubbing, let's ride! i do know i can ride tha same stuff on either freewheel.

  12. #12
    Gigantic Hawk
    Reputation: dubthang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    1,564
    ^^^^
    I agree with what you are saying. I think a decent rider can have a good ride on anything. Personally, I will notice the difference in engagement when trying to climb over big logs or at the top of a rock pile. I think gear selection plays into it for me as well. The bigger the gear, the quicker I want the engagement.

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Nubster's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    6,839
    Quote Originally Posted by SlowPokePete View Post
    As long as you are pedaling, engagement doesn't matter.

    That said, I have Kings on two 29ers (geared) and a Hope on my Niner SS.

    Where I ride, it is quite technical, often requiring a rider to stop and start pedaling to make a tricky section. Because of that, POE is important to me, and is the reason I run the hubs that I use...

    I do not like that feeling of pedaling and having the cranks rotate so far before the power kicks in.

    SPP
    Are you using the Hope SS hub? How does it compare to the CK? If it is the SS hub, have you ever ridden the Hope hub for geared bikes with the 24 POE? If so, how does it compare to the SS version? Sorry about the questions, I am new to SS and currently my bike is using the geared version Hope Pro 2 and I found that on the trail, I can really tell big time that there is a lack of POE in my hub. Not a serious issue, but quite annoying and since I will be getting a dedicated SS rear wheel soon, I want to get something with better POE. If the Hope SS is a LOT better I'll go that route. I just don't want to spend CK money if I don't need to.
    Super snowflake = when an avatar offends you so much you have to cry about it and report it to admin. Life must suck for you.

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation: SlowPokePete's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    1,586
    Quote Originally Posted by Nubster View Post
    Are you using the Hope SS hub? How does it compare to the CK? If it is the SS hub, have you ever ridden the Hope hub for geared bikes with the 24 POE? If so, how does it compare to the SS version? Sorry about the questions, I am new to SS and currently my bike is using the geared version Hope Pro 2 and I found that on the trail, I can really tell big time that there is a lack of POE in my hub. Not a serious issue, but quite annoying and since I will be getting a dedicated SS rear wheel soon, I want to get something with better POE. If the Hope SS is a LOT better I'll go that route. I just don't want to spend CK money if I don't need to.
    Nubster...

    I have pretty much only ridden King hubs for the past number of years (only on geared bikes) and have become very accustomed to the fast engagement.

    I bought a used Niner One9 about three months ago, and it is my first ss. I have been riding it pretty much exclusively since i got it, and I ride almost every day.

    The Niner came with Stans Arches and the Hope hubs. The Hope rear is not ss specific, and came set up with spacers. I definitely noticed the slower engagement over the Kings that I became used to.

    That said, I have been wanting to get a ss King set up for the rear, and found a set (front and rear) used which arrived about four days ago. Sold the Hopes on eBay and am shipping them out today.

    I really wanted a ss specific in the rear because of the dishless set up and added strength. I love riding ss and know that I will not be needing them for geared applications...I have two other 29ers (a full ss and a full rigid) both set up with Kings, in case I choose to ride with gears for some reason.

    All i can say is that I am psyched to be on these Kings on my ss. The Hopes were pretty nice, though, and I probably would not have done the switch and spent the extra $$ if it wasn't for the fact that I ended up getting exacly what I wanted...

    SPP
    Rigid.

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    238
    Quote Originally Posted by Nubster View Post
    Are you using the Hope SS hub? How does it compare to the CK? If it is the SS hub, have you ever ridden the Hope hub for geared bikes with the 24 POE? If so, how does it compare to the SS version? Sorry about the questions, I am new to SS and currently my bike is using the geared version Hope Pro 2 and I found that on the trail, I can really tell big time that there is a lack of POE in my hub. Not a serious issue, but quite annoying and since I will be getting a dedicated SS rear wheel soon, I want to get something with better POE. If the Hope SS is a LOT better I'll go that route. I just don't want to spend CK money if I don't need to.
    I have to agree with the statements earlier in this thread that POE is overrated. Higher POE is definitely noticable, and beneficial on certian types of terrain, but good riding skill will get you through any section of terrain regarless of POE. With that being said, I would still opt for the SS hub due to the wider flange distance which will allow for a stonger wheel build with no dish. The extra POE is a bonus, but it does come at the cost of slightly more rolling resistance.

    I ride an Americn Classic SS hub with only 16 POE. Ocassionally I notice the low POE, but I constantly notice how great they roll. The AC hubs just roll for EVER, and they are very light also.

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Nubster's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    6,839
    I might not worry about it if I wasn't planning to have the new wheel built, but since I am building it anyways so that I have a dedicated SS rear wheel it only makes sense to get a SS hub. I could be ok with the Hope 24 POE but since the SS Hope is 48, that's bonus. I'm just trying to figure out if 48 POE is enough improvement to go with or do I want to consider something like Hadley or CK with 72 POE (different systems), I9 with 120 POE (I don't think they are clyde proven though), or Profile Racing with 204 POE, again, not clyde proven to my knowledge.

    I guess it's the difference maybe between geared and SS, but I have never noticed the slower engagement of my Hopes when the wheelset was on my RockHopper. Since I tore that bike down and started building the SS, there has been some discussion in the clyde section on this very topic. I wonder if riding the SS the other day on the trail, if there is just a big difference between the two bikes or it was just on my mind and I was focused on it and that's why I was really noticing. Either way, I now crave better engagement, at least on the SS...lol

    I figure that the Hope SS with 48 POE will be plenty and nearly instant, I just wanted to try and get that confirmed. I also want to try and stay away from the whole more POE is better and just get the best hub I can for the money, but I see myself kinda falling into that trap a little.

    Thanks to both of you for your insight. Money tends to be tight around here so I want to make the best decision first time out.
    Super snowflake = when an avatar offends you so much you have to cry about it and report it to admin. Life must suck for you.

  17. #17
    psycho cyclo addict
    Reputation: edubfromktown's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    2,612
    My two geared 29er's have Chris King hubs whereas my SS 29er has a stock/cheapo Bontrager Duster wheel set. I do not notice a dramatic difference with respect to POE when climbing on any of the three bikes. Undoubtedly a higher quality hub will last longer, may suffer less water penetration damage and other things I'm sure. In terms of performance the difference is negligible in my experience.

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation: SlowPokePete's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    1,586
    Quote Originally Posted by edubfromktown View Post
    My two geared 29er's have Chris King hubs whereas my SS 29er has a stock/cheapo Bontrager Duster wheel set. I do not notice a dramatic difference with respect to POE when climbing on any of the three bikes.
    The only time POE is noticeable is when you stop pedaling and then quickly try to restart again ... like when you have to ratchet the cranks in order to get over something without striking your pedals.


    SPP
    Rigid.

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Nubster's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    6,839
    I noticed mostly in the sharp twists and turns when I coasted into the turn and tried to power out. There was a a good 1/8 or more of pedal rotation before engagement. It was a bit annoying at times.
    Super snowflake = when an avatar offends you so much you have to cry about it and report it to admin. Life must suck for you.

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Click Click Boom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    458
    I'm 220lbs to 240lbs depending on my double cheese burger intake and I have been running Hope Pro 2 Evo Singlespeed hubs and love them. Strong, good POE. I think The Hope SS hubs are the Jack of all trades hub. Good POE, Strong, rolls well and priced great!

  21. #21
    The need for singlespeed
    Reputation: zaskaranddriver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    973
    Quote Originally Posted by Nubster View Post
    I noticed mostly in the sharp twists and turns when I coasted into the turn and tried to power out. There was a a good 1/8 or more of pedal rotation before engagement. It was a bit annoying at times.
    Yep, my last hub had a paltry 16 POE. With a 2:1 ratio that's exactly 1/8 of free crank rotation. Enough to make you wonder if your hub will blow out when you keep slamming the pawls that hard.

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    536
    POE is useless. Hope's are loudest and that's what makes you faster.

    That said, I run Stan's Crest with DT Revolution 1.5/2.0 on Hope Pro2 EVO (ss version) front and rear and they are light and fast. I have a set of King's on my geared bike and I really don't think I can notice a difference between the two. My other SS has Redline hubs and I can tell a difference between the Hope/King and those. Not enough to stop me from doing anything, but more of a minor annoyance.

  23. #23
    psycho cyclo addict
    Reputation: edubfromktown's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    2,612
    Quote Originally Posted by SlowPokePete View Post
    The only time POE is noticeable is when you stop pedaling and then quickly try to restart again ... like when you have to ratchet the cranks in order to get over something without striking your pedals.


    SPP
    Yup - I do a good bit of stutter step climbing where I have to ratchet back on the cranks to avoid pedal strikes and also to backup and get a power stroke (right foot @ ~1:00; sooner than rotating all the way around) to get over an obstacle during a climb.

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    2,041
    Quote Originally Posted by zaskaranddriver View Post
    1/8 of free crank rotation.
    actually this lets you build some momentum in your crank; then when it finally engages POW it goes like a rocketship.

    buy nice hubs if you have money but don't think for a second that the POE of the hub is gonna make a bit of difference in what you can/can't ride.

    i heard from a buddy who destroys hubs regularly doing insane DH/freeride stuff that king hubs are the strongest and that is why he is finally buying one for a rear hub after destroying many others. they also seem highly regarded in the XC crowd. if i had the money i'd buy those; but not cause of some silly POE #.

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    536
    Quote Originally Posted by max-a-mill View Post
    actually this lets you build some momentum in your crank; then when it finally engages POW it goes like a rocketship.

    buy nice hubs if you have money but don't think for a second that the POE of the hub is gonna make a bit of difference in what you can/can't ride.

    i heard from a buddy who destroys hubs regularly doing insane DH/freeride stuff that king hubs are the strongest and that is why he is finally buying one for a rear hub after destroying many others. they also seem highly regarded in the XC crowd. if i had the money i'd buy those; but not cause of some silly POE #.
    I ride DH quite a bit and no way would I go with King on my DH rig. While they are strong and durable, if they *DO* break you're pretty much screwed for parts to fix or even tools to break them down unless you bring everything with you. Even if you're at a park and the shop can work on it, you'd likely come out cheaper just buying a used wheel from them.

    Currently I run XT rear hubs and Marz front. I can pick up XT rear hubs all day long around $35-45 on ebay or part swaps and it's 10x easier and cheaper to just carry a spare that you can replace the innards on in about 20 mins with simple tools rather than the costs associated with spare CK tools and parts. POE means absolutely crap going DH as 95% of your pedaling is in the flats or a quick blurp to get balance or tiny boost.

    For my SS, Hope all the way. When the King's on my geared bike die, I will bury them appropriately because they are great and I love them, but I hate the money you have to spend on them from time to time.

  26. #26
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    914
    Quote Originally Posted by SlowPokePete View Post
    The only time POE is noticeable is when you stop pedaling and then quickly try to restart again ... like when you have to ratchet the cranks in order to get over something without striking your pedals.


    SPP
    I went from a 24 POE hub to a hope SS 48 POE hub and this is where I noticed the biggest difference. I ratchet my cranks alot and I couldn't do that before. I do them on steep tehnical climbs when I don't have enough energy to do a full stroke or when I am climbing behind someone that is in there granny gear. To slow for me to pedal regularly.

  27. #27
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Nubster's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    6,839
    So you feel there is a pretty good increase in POE between the 24 and 48 POE Hopes? I really like my current Hopes, so I'd like to stick with them. I just want to make sure I'm getting what I want out of them and that's fast engagement for my SS.
    Super snowflake = when an avatar offends you so much you have to cry about it and report it to admin. Life must suck for you.

  28. #28
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    536
    I think they're around the same price. If you're building a dedicated SS bike and won't need the option to run gears ever, then get the SS hub.

  29. #29
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Nubster's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    6,839
    Yeah, definitely getting a SS hub. I have the geared Hope hub already for my geared bike but I'm using it on my SS now so I plan to have a dedicated SS wheel/hub built soon.
    Super snowflake = when an avatar offends you so much you have to cry about it and report it to admin. Life must suck for you.

  30. #30
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    914
    Quote Originally Posted by fryed_1 View Post
    I think they're around the same price. If you're building a dedicated SS bike and won't need the option to run gears ever, then get the SS hub.
    I can't see to find the same axle options for the SS EVO2 hub though. I am stuck with bolt-on but want to convert to a through bolt but can't find anything except for the geared version. Something to think about if axle options matter to you.

  31. #31
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    536
    I have 10mm and they work great... QR is an option.


  32. #32
    mtbr member
    Reputation: ne_dan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    560
    Quote Originally Posted by brent878 View Post
    I can't see to find the same axle options for the SS EVO2 hub though. I am stuck with bolt-on but want to convert to a through bolt but can't find anything except for the geared version. Something to think about if axle options matter to you.
    With the Trials Pro 2 you just needed QR end caps, not sure if it's the same for the EVO.

  33. #33
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    375
    OP here,my SS was just completed and am more then pleased with my choice of the Hope hubs.

  34. #34
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Nubster's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    6,839
    Sounds like a winner to me, unless I come across a killer deal on something else before ordering the Hopes. Thanks all.
    Super snowflake = when an avatar offends you so much you have to cry about it and report it to admin. Life must suck for you.

  35. #35
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    914
    Quote Originally Posted by fryed_1 View Post
    I have 10mm and they work great... QR is an option.

    That looks like my bolt on.

    I want to use a thru bolt like this:

    DT Swiss - RWS thru bolt

    I need something like this but was told it wouldn't work on the SS evo hub.


    Hope Conversion Kits Pro 2 10mm Thru Rear | Buy Online | ChainReactionCycles.com

  36. #36
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    536
    Not sure... I don't see why it wouldn't but don't quote me on that. Here's the bolt-on standard with the bolt-on SS hubs (they originally sent me the wrong one)



  37. #37
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    914
    This is where I got my info from. Maybe someone has new info now or they released a kit since then?

    http://forums.mtbr.com/singlespeed/h...lt-741482.html

    If anyone has a link to where I can buy a bolt thru for the hope evo SS I would apreciate it.

Members who have read this thread: 0

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2019 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.