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  1. #1
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    Paul or Phil hubs for new SS wheelset?

    I've decided to get rid of the XTR wheelset on my SS and go to a dedicated SS type rear hub. I've always used Paul hubs and love all of the parts he's making. I also like the look and history of the Phil hubs but have no experience with them. I'd probably get the Phil's with the SL option. That looks sexy!

    Please make a decision for me. Paul or Phil? I like both and they are similar in price.
    It's only weird because it's not normal.

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  2. #2
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    Phil

    Quote Originally Posted by mckeand13
    I've decided to get rid of the XTR wheelset on my SS and go to a dedicated SS type rear hub. I've always used Paul hubs and love all of the parts he's making. I also like the look and history of the Phil hubs but have no experience with them. I'd probably get the Phil's with the SL option. That looks sexy!

    Please make a decision for me. Paul or Phil? I like both and they are similar in price.
    Similar in price? I've owned paul's (1 set) and phil's (2 sets) and I'd say go with the Phil's. Not that I had a bad experience with the Paul's, but I just like the Phil's more. I think the Phil's weigh more, but they are just buttery smooth year after year. And Brent at Phil Wood is a great guy.

  3. #3
    Neg reppers r my biatches
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    Quote Originally Posted by mckeand13
    I've decided to get rid of the XTR wheelset on my SS and go to a dedicated SS type rear hub. I've always used Paul hubs and love all of the parts he's making. I also like the look and history of the Phil hubs but have no experience with them. I'd probably get the Phil's with the SL option. That looks sexy!

    Please make a decision for me. Paul or Phil? I like both and they are similar in price.
    Not that I can compare the 2, but I make parts decisions based on reputation and customer service....in that regard, I cannot imagine any other hub beating Phil Woods....Brent is an incredibly helpful and nice guy who is happy to answer any question you may have, even my lame ones.

    The only part I hated about dealing with Phil Wood was that there were 2 incredible options I could have gone with in terms of colors to go with my Phil Wood frame....just not fair to make me have to pick!!!

    cheers
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  4. #4
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    I Just Had a New Front...

    wheel built for my SS by Larry at MountainHigh Cylery around the new Phil SL hubs. I won't use any other BB than Phil and now that I have one of their hubs, i'm saying CK who?? A thing of beauty and if its half as durable as the BB's have been, it'll be around for a loooooong while. I plan on having a rear wheel built this summer to match.
    MTBDad
    MCM #47.867

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  5. #5
    try driving your car less
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    Quote Originally Posted by mckeand13
    I've decided to get rid of the XTR wheelset on my SS and go to a dedicated SS type rear hub. I've always used Paul hubs and love all of the parts he's making. I also like the look and history of the Phil hubs but have no experience with them. I'd probably get the Phil's with the SL option. That looks sexy!

    Please make a decision for me. Paul or Phil? I like both and they are similar in price.
    keep the XTR.

    i have pauls. i would go for phil.
    Only boring people get bored.

  6. #6
    -> SickLines.com <-
    Reputation: mtb_biker's Avatar
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    Phil's are solid. but so are Paul's. Pauls will make for a signifigantly lighter wheel too..

  7. #7
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    I have had Pauls and I have Phils now. Pauls were good. but Phil's are much better.

    I think you can get Phil's bearings for a Paul's hub. That might be just as good.
    Thanks to www.weavercycleworks.com for my awesome bike frames!

  8. #8
    i like to bicycle
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    i like my pauls but...

    i'd get the spot brand ones if i was doing it again on the cheaper side. those are good hubs too. for more money the phils are certainly nicer hubs. the adj on the pauls is ok but not quite the quality of the phil.

  9. #9
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    I asked myself the same question some time ago when I built a rear up. I went with the lighter (and cheaper) Paul's and love it but don't think anyone will tell you Phil's don't rock. I'd imagine this ISN"T helping.:-)
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  10. #10
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    Phil Wood

    hands down...beautiful, bomb proof, and the SLR option eliminates any weight penalty. I have the SLR disc hub set in anodized black...and oh my are they beautiful and smooth.

    Paul's are no slouch by any means, but in my experience their bearings wear out (get sloppy) far earlier than Phil Woods and I've always had to continue to adjust the rear hub on the Paul's as it would come loose. Even on my wife's SS which is'nt ridden frequently.


    Roger
    (PW is one of my sponsors)

  11. #11
    Neg reppers r my biatches
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTBDad
    wheel built for my SS by Larry at MountainHigh Cylery around the new Phil SL hubs. I won't use any other BB than Phil and now that I have one of their hubs, i'm saying CK who?? A thing of beauty and if its half as durable as the BB's have been, it'll be around for a loooooong while. I plan on having a rear wheel built this summer to match.
    sounds great....Larry is building (or built?) my PW wheelset as we speak....laced to DT Swiss XR4.1d rims with silver spokes and silver brass nipples (blue PW hubs)

  12. #12
    jra
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger___
    hands down...beautiful, bomb proof, and the SLR option eliminates any weight penalty. I have the SLR disc hub set in anodized black...and oh my are they beautiful and smooth.

    Paul's are no slouch by any means, but in my experience their bearings wear out (get sloppy) far earlier than Phil Woods and I've always had to continue to adjust the rear hub on the Paul's as it would come loose. Even on my wife's SS which is'nt ridden frequently.


    Roger
    (PW is one of my sponsors)
    Agreed. I had a Paul's SS hub. No brainer - go Phil.

  13. #13
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    Nothing wrong with the Pauls, but I had to go with the Phils when I was in the same predicament.

  14. #14
    Brent
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    Thanks and some info...

    Hi all,

    First of all thanks for the props. I/We appreciate it.

    Just want to clarify some SL and SLR stuff.
    The SL option (middle hub) applies to the axle and only non disc hubs in the case of SS hubs.
    It has a smaller cap and washer combo to reduce the weight, still beefier than most others. No additional cost.
    I always suggest this for vert dropout application as the wheel isn't going to slip anyway...

    The SLR option (right hub) applies to disc and high flange track hubs only and is material removed from the flanges for reduced weight. As an added bonus it will make you ride harder and longer all weekend long (she'll be so happy). Limited quantities and with roughly a $40+ additional cost per hub.

    Good old beefy Phil SS hub on the left, no tugs needed here...

    Thanks again.
    Brent
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  15. #15
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    Agreed. I have never had to use a chain tugg since switching to Phil Wood hubs.
    Thanks to www.weavercycleworks.com for my awesome bike frames!

  16. #16
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    Just noticed this old thread and my question popped up. I was planning on building a new rear wheel using the PW Kiss Off with the SL option. I've got horizontal drops on my SS though. Will getting the dreaded slippage of the rear wheel to not occur be difficult?
    Click That Sh*t

  17. #17
    Medium?
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    Quote Originally Posted by msiddens
    Just noticed this old thread and my question popped up. I was planning on building a new rear wheel using the PW Kiss Off with the SL option. I've got horizontal drops on my SS though. Will getting the dreaded slippage of the rear wheel to not occur be difficult?
    Reread Brent's post above. If you're getting Phil's instead of something else, you're already past weight as your biggest issue. Get the right ones. "No tugs needed here."

    At the very least have Brent substitute the bigger washer thingees for the outside of the dropout. Beefy. I used them on my Paul's hub after it's washers went bad. Now that the Paul's hubs went bad they're back where they belong on the original 6 yo Phil Wood SS hub that is exactly as smooth as it was when I bought it six muddy winters ago.

  18. #18
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    see now i think i remember hearing both hubs run on the same bearings from a pretty darn reputable source...

    anyone else care to comment on if that is that true?

    i never have had phil's; but went with pauls due to cost and have been super happy. i wiegh 230 and don't need tugs to keep my wheel tight either...

    you can't really go wrong... but you COULD save a couple bucks maybe.

  19. #19
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    Just an update.....

    I decided on black Phil's and I couldn't be happier. Brent is a great person to deal with and the hubs are the nicest I've had.

    The black is absolutely beautiful. The only thing I could wish for is some sort of endcap similar to Paul's just to cover up the bearing face and axle. Just for looks.

    I didn't get the SL option but should have. I've got vertical dropouts and the regular washer just looks huge. I had my toolroom make me some SL washers though and they look more appropriate. I can't comment on what is "really" needed on horizontals though. The bigguns might even be overkill but I bet they'll never move.

    Thanks Brent!
    It's only weird because it's not normal.

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  20. #20
    velocipede technician
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    phils

    Quote Originally Posted by mckeand13
    I've decided to get rid of the XTR wheelset on my SS and go to a dedicated SS type rear hub. I've always used Paul hubs and love all of the parts he's making. I also like the look and history of the Phil hubs but have no experience with them. I'd probably get the Phil's with the SL option. That looks sexy!

    Please make a decision for me. Paul or Phil? I like both and they are similar in price.
    get the phils,especialy with the slr option.as brent told me "get these hubs,their chick magnets".

  21. #21
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    what about ck?

    how do ck's match up to phil and paul?

  22. #22
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    All the hube are high quality but a lot more $$. I'm running a CK ISO Disc on my front and love it. Light and strong but the prices went through the roof last year. I'm off that train now....except for my headset:-)
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  23. #23
    Got Mojo?
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    Quote Originally Posted by audiobomber
    how do ck's match up to phil and paul?
    I have always wanted a set of Phil Wood hubs. And I finally had a set built up for fixed gear ... Beautiful wheelset.



    Having said that I love my CK wheels for my geared bike and my SS. The engagement is immediate. I do not mean to steal any of Brent's (or Phil Woods) thunder, and it has been a while sice I can remember riding on PW SS wheels. My fixie is set up with a flip flop, so when I give that a try I'll post back.

    Three years ago I was having my SS built, and I went throught the same dilemma. After talking to some of the SS racers they convinced me to go with King. Fortuantely I bought my hubs before their two price hikes last year.



    It is not an easy choice, all these manufacturers offer high end products, and have outstanding service. That is why there will be no clear answer in this thread.


    Oh, and...

    Neither the Kings or the Phil Wood hubs that I run need a tug in horizontal dropouts. They both hold...real good.
    aLaN AT BikeMojo DOT com

  24. #24
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    I haven't ever ridden Pauls hubs but I am sure they are fine. I have had some serious problems with a couple of Phils rear hubs back in the early 90's where the axle and bearing assembly was pushing out of the hubshell. Basically the hub shell and the rest of the wheel was moving laterally in the axle. Phil warrenteed the hub no problem but unfortunately after building up another wheel the same thing happenned. I haven't tried a set of Phil hubs since. A couple of years later I had a Phil BB and preceded to bend the spindle on the first ride. Apperently they had a bad lot of non-heat treated spindles that went out. Once again they warrenteed it no problem but I have been turned off of Phil since. I have been pretty tempted to try a Ti/Mag bb from them but never could justify the price.

  25. #25
    Got Mojo?
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikeMojo
    Having said that I love my CK wheels for my geared bike and my SS. The engagement is immediate. I do not mean to steal any of Brent's (or Phil Woods) thunder, and it has been a while sice I can remember riding on PW SS wheels. My fixie is set up with a flip flop, so when I give that a try I'll post back.

    Ok, so I finally flipped my flip flop hub. I went out for a little ro@d ride today and decided to freewheel. I noticed several things:

    First, difference I noted b/w the PW and Kings is the lack of drag. Not when riding..I am usually pedaling. But getting on the bike and kicking back the cranks to get clipped in. The cranks just spun and spun.

    While coasting down the hills, the bike was very quiet. Very quiet.

    And finally, when it comes to engagement, the Phil's were right there. I don't think I could notice much, if any, difference from the Kings.



    It was a joyous ride in the Texas Hill Country.
    aLaN AT BikeMojo DOT com

  26. #26
    Single Speed Junkie
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    Have tried almost all hub options out there including DT, King, Paul, Phil and for some odd reason the Hub of choice for me is Phil. It has never failed. Never needed to be rebuilt. Never needed adjustment. Can't tell the difference from a set that was put into service in 1999 and the latest offerings in terms of being silky smooth. Also found a retro pair from a buddy for road from the 1970's and still silky smooth.

    If you want something that is going to perform flawlessly for years to come think that we all know the answer. PHIL hubs are the way to go.

  27. #27
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    regardless of brand, the best choice will be whatever has the greatest flange-to-flange width. If you lace 4cross with swaged DT spokes, with say a 36 or 32 hole hub, and a reasonably good rim, you have an invincible wheel. That's probably the best way to single speed, invincible.

  28. #28
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    It all depends what you want. Light wheel Chris king hubs on 717's. Bomb proof Phil wood on 717's. I ran there hubs for 2 seasons on the mud, they still spun like the first day i rode on them. Phil makes the most durable hubs, there Bottom Brackets on the other hand......

  29. #29
    Keep on Rockin...
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    Yes...

    Quote Originally Posted by upsidedown
    regardless of brand, the best choice will be whatever has the greatest flange-to-flange width. If you lace 4cross with swaged DT spokes, with say a 36 or 32 hole hub, and a reasonably good rim, you have an invincible wheel. That's probably the best way to single speed, invincible.
    For my most recent wheelset, 29", I wanted them to be strong so I went looking for a wide flange. Paul's rear non-disc won out. They are light, reasonably priced, seem easy to service, and what was really a plus was they have a bolt on for the rear and front hub! Bombproof. I've had them on a good shake down ride and was very happy. For years I was a King fan and still am, but for my trial 29er build I didn't want to drop all that change in case it didn't jive. That front bolt on strapped to a rigid steel fork rails like my DC Super T, actually it probably is stiffer!

    The true test with the hubs will come with time and when they eventually need repair, all things need repair or at least tweaking, we'll see how it is dealing with Paul himself.

    Mike

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