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  1. #1
    DAS
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    OT: Volkswagen?

    Hey guys. Hope everyone is getting some good riding in. I have been recovering from shoulder surgery so I've only been running and riding the trainer. Snowshoeing is my new sport! That and physical therapy. I hope to get back on the bike soon.

    Off topic, here is a little survey about the Volkswagen brand for an MBA course I'm taking. If you have a minute, I'd appreciate your input.

    http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.asp?u=96885384979

    thanks!

  2. #2
    Whiskey Tango Foxtrot
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    interesting survey

    vw has made some, er, interesting marketing choices of late. while the touareg is a great truck (and far prettier than the cayenne), it is pretty expensive for the marque and gets uncharacteristically bad (for vw) mileage. same applies to the phaeton, which seems doomed to fail by the existence of the a8L.

    good luck with your work.

  3. #3
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    best of luck

    with the mba, and the physio.

    regarding the survey, we bought a used jetta when we got married (my wife's dream car - seriously), and loved it. except when it wouldn't start on cold mornings, or wet mornings, and it began to eat electrical parts (like starter assemblies) repeatedly. in my opinion, those old jettas were better cars than the new ones, and at this point i can't imagine we'd buy another vw.

    regarding your shoulder - best of luck. i had to get both of my shoulders 'overhauled' with ti pins and the like a few years back, but these days they're feeling great. so much so that i just got in from messing around on the new trials bike, complete with scraped elbows and bruised knees (so far i only have shin pads). but the shoulders feel solid. keep up the physio, and take whatever time off they tell you to let things set properly. it's worth it - and combined with the work you're putting in on it, it'll come back for ya. keep it up.

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    We've got a '92 Jetta with 425000km on the clock. We overhauled the motor on 270000.
    Still goes like a bom...

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by eSSq
    vw has made some, er, interesting marketing choices of late. while the touareg is a great truck (and far prettier than the cayenne), it is pretty expensive for the marque and gets uncharacteristically bad (for vw) mileage. same applies to the phaeton, which seems doomed to fail by the existence of the a8L.
    The Touareg with the V10 TDI has 550 lb-ft of torque and over 300HP... aaand gets 25mpg... but will not available in California... .and not that I can afford one.

    My VW with the VR6 engine gets very poor gas mileage for a little hatchback... 20/26mpg. Throw a bike on the back and real world becomes 17/22mpg.

  6. #6
    Whiskey Tango Foxtrot
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    yes, you're right about the TDI; those aren't such bad numbers...

    Quote Originally Posted by aosty
    My VW with the VR6 engine gets very poor gas mileage for a little hatchback... 20/26mpg. Throw a bike on the back and real world becomes 17/22mpg.
    [nelson] "ha-haa" [/neslon]

    my 1.8t a4 gets 26 - 32 mpg.
    you should get rid of that six cyl for a turbo, maybe an avant. you'd look good in it!

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by eSSq
    vw has made some, er, interesting marketing choices of late. while the touareg is a great truck (and far prettier than the cayenne), it is pretty expensive for the marque and gets uncharacteristically bad (for vw) mileage. same applies to the phaeton, which seems doomed to fail by the existence of the a8L.

    good luck with your work.
    saw some pheaton's (think 3 in a row followed by a tdi toureg) coming down i70 a couple weeks ago. They sure were purty. but i'm barely in hte market for a jetta now, so that's a couple decades away for me...
    Take the long cut, we'll get there eventually.

  8. #8
    Yummy
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    My Jetta GLI is almost 2 years old now. In the first week, the stereo gave up, which was replaced. Since then, not a single mechanical/electrical/operational problem.

    Gas mileage is as good as you want to get. If you drive it like an old lady, it gets good mileage. It's really tough to drive that way with a car that responds so nicely to a touch on the gas though!

    Kn.
    I used to be with it. Then, they changed what "it" is, and now what I'm with is no longer "it". And whatever "it" is, is strange and confusing.

  9. #9
    sufferer of a.d.d.
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    my 1.8t a4 gets 26 - 32 mpg.
    you should get rid of that six cyl for a turbo, maybe an avant. you'd look good in it!
    i have a 1.8t gti and i dont get ANYWHERE near the mileage you (and vw) are claiming. the best mileage i've seen was about 26 mpg this was on a road trip going about 80 mph the whole time in fith gear. often my mileage is closer to 20-22 in the city. i think vw's claims are highly exagerated and i often wonder just how big of a truck i'd have to be drafting at all times to achieve the claimed #'s

  10. #10
    Whiskey Tango Foxtrot
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    that's odd

    for figures, i'm relying on the driver information system (DIS) in my '03 a4 quattro. it's a manual transmission, and i do drive as efficiently as possible. i use the average mpg readout on the DIS to adjust my driving style to improve fuel economy as needed to acheive best results.

    when i want to go fast, i take the bmw z4. i get crappy mileage when i drive that.

  11. #11
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    '99 Eurovan Camper

    I obviously drive a Eurovan Camper. It has over 85K miles and has been very reliable. Absolutly the best MTB and ultrarunning vehicle I have ever come across. Gas furnace with thermostat for cold days/nights, 3 way fridge for the beer... , hold 4 bikes inside and 4 on the hatch rack, 10 gallons of water, vinyl floor, sleeps 4, and 20 mpg city or hwy. with the VR6. Drives super nice with the Bilstien shocks. I am going to keep it as long as I can.

    My record distance in one sitting is 21 hours from Dallas to Cape Canaveral, FL.

    Mike

  12. #12
    DAS
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    Thanks

    Thanks for all the input, everyone. It's been a really interesting project. Obviously, VW used to be "the people's wagon" and had hippy / low end cars like the original bug, the microbus, the Thing, the fastback. It appears that they have been slowly upgrading their brand with the Jetta, Passat, and of course Taureg and Phaeton. We think there is some conflict in releasing a Phaeton ($80K) while people still think of you as a cool and young car. It may be a case of over-extending their brand. What makes it even more odd is that they have a higher end brand already; Audi. If they continue to head in this direction, they may phase out the Jetta and GTI. Can you imagine?

    Yeah, the MBA is going well. Just 4 months left!

    The shoulder has been healing surprisingly well. It's been one month since the surgery. It feels great but is super stiff. I can't raise my arm very high. All of my PT is stretching. So far no strengthening. I feel like I'm losing a lot of muscle, but I need that flexibility back first. I had a great surgeon who did it all arthoscopically. Yep, two titanium bolts in there. I'm glad I did it. I was always worried it would dislocate, even in reaching for a beer.

    Cheers.

  13. #13
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    Let's not forget the connection between VW and some SS officials...

    but besides that, forget the Jetta. I like my cars with leg room.
    The only car possibly worth something is the GTI, but front wheel drive?! Are you kidding? That much horsepower and that lightweight of a car equal way to much pull torque steering... yikes....

    <sorry, I hate VW's>

    Get an Audi if you must...
    or a Volvo.

  14. #14
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    well dude!

    Quote Originally Posted by aosty
    The Touareg with the V10 TDI has 550 lb-ft of torque and over 300HP... aaand gets 25mpg... but will not available in California... .and not that I can afford one.

    My VW with the VR6 engine gets very poor gas mileage for a little hatchback... 20/26mpg. Throw a bike on the back and real world becomes 17/22mpg.
    ... you got a right foot made out of that stuff at the center of black holes. I'll bet your floorboards are dented ******ds from you stomping that pedal!

    The '04s have a 6 speed now. I wonder if they went with a super tall 6th gear to save gas?

  15. #15
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    dang....

    Quote Originally Posted by donkekus
    Let's not forget the connection between VW and some SS officials...

    but besides that, forget the Jetta. I like my cars with leg room.
    The only car possibly worth something is the GTI, but front wheel drive?! Are you kidding? That much horsepower and that lightweight of a car equal way to much pull torque steering... yikes....

    <sorry ,="" i="" hate="" vw's="">

    Get an Audi if you must...
    or a Volvo.
    what are you driving if you consider a 2900 pound car lightweight? A cement mixer? The old rabbits came in at 1500 pounds originally. I had a bud who dropped a 2.0 16v engine in one. That thing was fun... and scary.
    </sorry>

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by pimpbot
    what are you driving if you consider a 2900 pound car lightweight? A cement mixer? The old rabbits came in at 1500 pounds originally. I had a bud who dropped a 2.0 16v engine in one. That thing was fun... and scary.
    </sorry>
    Ah, a good old misquote. I wasn't suggesting that the GTI VR6 was a lightweight car, I was however suggesting that it is too light for non-twitchy steering with that much horsepower and torque while being front wheel drive. That's all.
    Yeah a Civic Si is 200 lbs lighter and a MiniS is almost 600 lbs lighter.

    My car? A Volvo 850R at 3300 lbs... close to 300hp and even then some twitch.

    So.......?

  17. #17
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    stock interior?

    Quote Originally Posted by SoloWithOthers
    I obviously drive a Eurovan Camper. It has over 85K miles and has been very reliable. Absolutly the best MTB and ultrarunning vehicle I have ever come across. Gas furnace with thermostat for cold days/nights, 3 way fridge for the beer... , hold 4 bikes inside and 4 on the hatch rack, 10 gallons of water, vinyl floor, sleeps 4, and 20 mpg city or hwy. with the VR6. Drives super nice with the Bilstien shocks. I am going to keep it as long as I can.

    My record distance in one sitting is 21 hours from Dallas to Cape Canaveral, FL.

    Mike
    Hey, did the camper interior come stock like that? with the heater and whatnot?
    edit: I just checked and they no longer offer the eurovan in the USA for 2004.
    Last edited by jh_on_the_cape; 02-24-2004 at 09:26 AM.
    Only boring people get bored.

  18. #18
    theHeadlessThompsonGunner
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    Wait...

    You're knocking front wheel drive, and suggesting Volvo? I'm not the biggest FWD fan (though I've owned two Jettas in 10 yrs), but VW does it pretty well. In fact, I'd go so far as to say only Saab does it better. Certainly not Volvo, what with their state-of-the-art Ford technology... (Volvo hasn't built a RWD car for a long time, and the last ones were intolerable slush boxes, albeit with phenomenal reliability and safety.)

    That said, my 20-year-old BMW is much nicer to drive than my 4th gen Jetta, which is still an awesome car (especially for the money!).
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by SDizzle
    You're knocking front wheel drive, and suggesting Volvo? I'm not the biggest FWD fan (though I've owned two Jettas in 10 yrs), but VW does it pretty well. In fact, I'd go so far as to say only Saab does it better. Certainly not Volvo, what with their state-of-the-art Ford technology... (Volvo hasn't built a RWD car for a long time, and the last ones were intolerable slush boxes, albeit with phenomenal reliability and safety.)

    That said, my 20-year-old BMW is much nicer to drive than my 4th gen Jetta, which is still an awesome car (especially for the money!).
    Read what you want. I am not suggesting front wheel drive Volvos really, but more like their AWDs. And, the argument was that front wheel drive + a lot of horsepower in a lightweight car isn't entirely good. I am not under the impression that Volvo makes light cars. First of all, are you even sure Ford produces anything for Volvo? I was made to believe that Volvo is still the same, but owned by Ford. Hmmm?

  20. #20
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    VW Links

    Check these out;

    www.vwvortex.com

    www.vwfixx.com

    The Vortex one is a gimme, any VW driver worth their salt should know it, but check out the fixx, routinely 400+ 1.8T's in there. How about a 98 Jetta 2 door. Think about that. Wowsers!!!

  21. #21
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    theres another vw site dedicated to the 1.8t audis and volkswagens

    http://forums.20vturbo.com/index.php...5f37ca6e6c7545

  22. #22
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    saab's FWD sucks, too

    i used to have a 9000t, and though it was quite fast, the torque steer was horrendous. i think the only other car i've driven that was as bad (or even worse) was the 260 hp acura cl type-s with the 6 spd. i drove the new "chevy" saab and again with the torque steer. it sucked.

    FWD in general sucks. unless the car is totally underpowered, it is going to exhibit some torque steer and probably worse, understeer. AWD, and to a lesser extent rear wheel drive w/ a good traction control system are far superior choices, especially now that AWD systems are available on so many cars, even at so-called "economy" price points.

    in an effort to salvage a bit of bike content, i will add that the 5 door 9000t was a great car for hauling bikes.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by SDizzle
    You're knocking front wheel drive, and suggesting Volvo? I'm not the biggest FWD fan (though I've owned two Jettas in 10 yrs), but VW does it pretty well. In fact, I'd go so far as to say only Saab does it better.
    I agree with you. On a Saab note, I drive a 1991 Saab 9000 Turbo with a garrett T-15 turbo tuned to 20psi boost and straight turbo muffler and drilled out air box. The thing is a front wheel drive rocket ship and spins the front tires in 4th on dry pavement. Torque steers like crazy but if you get very use to it and fun to drive.

    Best part? Saabs don't hold their resale value worth a $hit and are VERY nice vehicles if you plan on driving them into the ground. And if you can work on your own stuff they are easy to take apart and rebuild.

    The best car for Colorado living IMHO - maybe a Turbo Forester is better if you want to off-road a lot. We have a Forester (2.5 slugg) for the MTB trip duties though.

  24. #24
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    Love my TDI !!

    Hey Dave,
    Nic here. (Nic and Brad aka Bones) Miss riding with you! Hope Meg is well and your recovery is moving along! You gotta' come up for the Canmore gathering.
    I may be riding my converted IF(SS) with Quads of steel...as soon as I get around to the conversion.
    Nic

  25. #25
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    Winnebago does the conversion...

    Quote Originally Posted by jh_on_the_cape
    Hey, did the camper interior come stock like that? with the heater and whatnot?
    edit: I just checked and they no longer offer the eurovan in the USA for 2004.
    I purchased it new in 1998 from a VW dealer in Austin, TX. There will be a new van that shares the platform for the Toureg in 2005. I sure hope I can get a TDI camper with 4 motion! I can dream, right?

    https://www.roulot.com/vwcalifornia/...a-T5varias.jpg


  26. #26
    DAS
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    Hi Nic!

    Hey Nic!

    Glad to hear from you! We are doing fine in Seattle. I miss biking daily but look forward to getting out on the bike (any bike) again. Stay warm up there!

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by donkekus
    Let's not forget the connection between VW and some SS officials...

    but besides that, forget the Jetta. I like my cars with leg room.
    The only car possibly worth something is the GTI, but front wheel drive?! Are you kidding? That much horsepower and that lightweight of a car equal way to much pull torque steering... yikes....

    <sorry, I hate VW's>

    Get an Audi if you must...
    or a Volvo.

    That's like saying don't buy a GMC truck, get a Chevy! The money spent on an Audi would go to the same place money spent on a VW would go.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Mama
    That's like saying don't buy a GMC truck, get a Chevy! The money spent on an Audi would go to the same place money spent on a VW would go.
    Actually, it's not like saying that at all...
    GMC and Chevy offer the same line practically...

    while Audi makes the higher end, sports cars and VW makes the lower end stuff.

    If you want to make an analogy make one...

    it would be like saying don't buy a Toyota, buy a Lexus
    or... don't buy a Honda, buy an Acura
    or... don't buy a Nissan, buy an Infiniti

    It wasn't about the company who owns the name, it was about quality. It was about the fact that VWs are riddled with plastic parts, while Audi has higher grade material throughout. And, Audi was recently merged with VW. I don't believe they were sister companies when VW was making Bugs for Hitler.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoloWithOthers
    I purchased it new in 1998 from a VW dealer in Austin, TX. There will be a new van that shares the platform for the Toureg in 2005. I sure hope I can get a TDI camper with 4 motion! I can dream, right?
    They, VW, are supposedly coming out with a retro rendition of their old school hippie 12 window fan... look for it. Still proto, I believe... but looks nice. Supposedly a newer version of the Eurovan.

  30. #30
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    don't forget

    Quote Originally Posted by donkekus
    It wasn't about the company who owns the name, it was about quality. It was about the fact that VWs are riddled with plastic parts, while Audi has higher grade material throughout.
    That may be true for the body materials of the Audi (that it includes less plastic), but my VW Passat 1.8T (at least in 2000) has the same exact engine as the Audi A4 1.8T (2000). While the shell of the cars are cut a little different and you can get different materials inside, the only thing I really noticed was more leg room in the Passat than the Audi.

    I think if you think of VW as simply the Jetta, Bug, or GTI, then your definitely going to think VW's are low end Audi's...

    DT

  31. #31
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    the current passat is a different platform (b5) than the current a4 (b6)

    Quote Originally Posted by DmofoT
    the only thing I really noticed was more leg room in the Passat than the Audi.
    the passat is definitely bigger thant the a4. my sister has a new passat, and although it looks similar to my new a4, it rides, drives and feels like a much different car, which makes sense, since it is built on an entirely different chassis, is 2wd v. quattro, and a zillion other reasons.

    the passat is a great car, but about all it truly shares with the a4 is the 1.8t motor. the next gen passat will be much more similar to the current a4. i think it is due out in amout a year and a half.

  32. #32
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    Auto Union and VW

    fyi, Auto Union and the Piech (sp?) Group merged a damn long time ago--right about the time when Auto Union was building giant V-10 and V-16 GT racers and Hitler commissioned his "people's car".

    With rare exceptions, Audis and VWs have always shared a great deal of parts, including chassis, and are built in many of the same places. The S cars and A8s are the most glaring exceptions, along with V8 A6s and maybe the A4 cabriolets.

    That said, Audis are generally of a much higher 'feel' quality, but you have to pay a great deal to actually have them built elsewhere from VWs.
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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by eSSq
    the passat is definitely bigger thant the a4. my sister has a new passat, and although it looks similar to my new a4, it rides, drives and feels like a much different car, which makes sense, since it is built on an entirely different chassis, is 2wd v. quattro, and a zillion other reasons.

    the passat is a great car, but about all it truly shares with the a4 is the 1.8t motor. the next gen passat will be much more similar to the current a4. i think it is due out in amout a year and a half.

    Yea I haven't really looked at them recently, not since actually buying my car. I was also comparing the non-quattro version of the A4. Back in 2000, Audi made both, but I think they have since made the step to all quattro.

    DT

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by SDizzle
    fyi, Auto Union and the Piech (sp?) Group merged a damn long time ago--right about the time when Auto Union was building giant V-10 and V-16 GT racers and Hitler commissioned his "people's car".

    With rare exceptions, Audis and VWs have always shared a great deal of parts, including chassis, and are built in many of the same places. The S cars and A8s are the most glaring exceptions, along with V8 A6s and maybe the A4 cabriolets.

    That said, Audis are generally of a much higher 'feel' quality, but you have to pay a great deal to actually have them built elsewhere from VWs.
    Hmm...?

    Mercedes controlled the destiny of Audi in the mid-1960s and also designed the first post-war Audi 1.7 litre four-cylinder engine... and before the first new Audi was on the market, they had sold Auto-Union to VW.

    The story of the modern-day Audi began, however, in 1965, when the brand name was re-born with the introduction of a new compact sedan, based largely on the DKW F102, but marking the end of the two-stroke era. At the same time, Auto Union was taken over by Volkswagen, whose Beetle was produced alongside the new Audi at the Auto Union plant in Ingolstadt, just north of Munich.

    Just about 20 years between the People's Car and the VW acquisition.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by donkekus
    Actually, it's not like saying that at all...
    GMC and Chevy offer the same line practically...

    while Audi makes the higher end, sports cars and VW makes the lower end stuff.

    If you want to make an analogy make one...

    it would be like saying don't buy a Toyota, buy a Lexus
    or... don't buy a Honda, buy an Acura
    or... don't buy a Nissan, buy an Infiniti

    It wasn't about the company who owns the name, it was about quality. It was about the fact that VWs are riddled with plastic parts, while Audi has higher grade material throughout. And, Audi was recently merged with VW. I don't believe they were sister companies when VW was making Bugs for Hitler.
    My analogy is correct, GMC's are intended to be "luxury trucks" while the Chevy's are intended to be the workhorses. Think Denali versus Tahoe. General Motors just blurs the line by offering a lot of options to upgrade Chevys with stuff that is standard GMC equipment.

    If it is all about quality only then why was Hitler brought up? The poster I was responding to said he didn't like VW's because of their affiliation with "SS officials" and made no mention of quality. I was simply saying that if you don't want to buy a VW on moral grounds you probably shouldn't buy an Audi either.

    As much as I like high end Audi sedans it's a stretch to say Audi makes "sports cars" and VW makes "low end stuff" when most of their product line shares chassis and engines. I'm a fan of the S series but real sports cars have 2 doors, not four.

    Regardless of whether you like VW or Audi, it's a shame they don't send more of the Euro models like the higher powered TDIs and A3s to the US.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Mama
    My analogy is correct, GMC's are intended to be "luxury trucks" while the Chevy's are intended to be the workhorses. Think Denali versus Tahoe. General Motors just blurs the line by offering a lot of options to upgrade Chevys with stuff that is standard GMC equipment.

    If it is all about quality only then why was Hitler brought up? The poster I was responding to said he didn't like VW's because of their affiliation with "SS officials" and made no mention of quality. I was simply saying that if you don't want to buy a VW on moral grounds you probably shouldn't buy an Audi either.

    As much as I like high end Audi sedans it's a stretch to say Audi makes "sports cars" and VW makes "low end stuff" when most of their product line shares chassis and engines. I'm a fan of the S series but real sports cars have 2 doors, not four.

    Regardless of whether you like VW or Audi, it's a shame they don't send more of the Euro models like the higher powered TDIs and A3s to the US.
    I don't agree on the GMC/Chevy front. GMC only makes trucks and vans, while Chevy produces cars as well. And are you suggesting the SSR is not a luxury truck?!

    Audi and VW were not sister companies when the "people's car" came out. So, morality has nothing to do with it.

    How is it a stretch to say VW makes lower end stuff than Audi? That is a fact, it can't really be arguable. Audi makes sports luxury, you're right. But, I didn't know I had to qualify everything. I was simplifying, my man.

    Yes, a real sports car has two doors. But, S stands for sports. And, it would be an S3 not an A3, as far as a sporty Euro model that should be imported to the US.

    Anyways, it's all semantics really...

  37. #37
    Bike Junky
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    I have always been a bit curious about how many cyclists are interested in VW. Tend to see a lot of 'em at races and such. I drove a 5 door TDI Golf up until last week. Then I picked up my new .:R32. I threw practical out the window and now it's VRRRROOOOOMMM. I love this thing.

    Frozen here for the most part in MN... so at least I have something fun to do until the trails dry up a bit.

  38. #38
    Pull my finger...
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    An R32 eh?

    Lucky bustard!!! I have a TDI Golf and love it just dandy. $32 (CDN) get's me 750 km consistently in the city and highway cruising range is simply awesome. VW Canada aren't giving us the R32, they say not enough demand for it but it's one helluva pocket rocket for sure.

  39. #39
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    Congrats, those R32's are a lot of fun. I actually went to the dealer to check them out last week. If you don't mind me asking, what was the final price? All the VW dealers I've been to here in CA have an added $5k "novelty" cost because their supply of R32's is supposedly limited, the sticker prices over here were $33-35k.

  40. #40
    newbie boobie.
    Reputation: donkekus's Avatar
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    I'm sorry but why does that little 2 door car, the R32, weigh the same as my Volvo brick?!

  41. #41
    Bike Junky
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    Oh, don't get me wrong DobeManSS... I love the TDI. It was nothing to go two weeks (months in the summer) without the need to fill up with fuel. I waffled on the R32. I had put a "no obligation" deposit down on one since August of 2003. I had pretty much convinced myself that it didn't make any sense to go from something fuel efficient with 4 doors to something, well... A rocket hatch. One drive though... That's all it took. There I was faced with the idea of if I passed up the chance now, I may never get another one.

    Sure, I can stuff the kids in the back, bikes will fit... What the heck... I look at it the same way as when I bought my PISSOFF. I only go around once in this crazy life that I live. Might as well get the best and forget the rest.

  42. #42
    Bike Junky
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Mama
    Congrats, those R32's are a lot of fun. I actually went to the dealer to check them out last week. If you don't mind me asking, what was the final price? All the VW dealers I've been to here in CA have an added $5k "novelty" cost because their supply of R32's is supposedly limited, the sticker prices over here were $33-35k.
    I had a deposit on one for almost 6 months before they were available. The way the deal was written was for MSRP. With leather it was something like 31k. Of course, the state of Minnesota took a chunk of the old green guys for taxes and such...

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